Giorgio Chiellini: Roy Keane Fandom & Messi vs Ronaldo | The Overlap on Tour: Unseen | Sky Mobile
01:07:33 Share

Join Bank of Clark as we make an impact through our Give with BOC campaign to make a difference in our community. For the rest of 2024, our branches have chosen a charity to support through our hashtag Give with BOC. To learn how you can help, visit our website at bankofclark.bank slash givewithboc or follow us on our social media channels and the hashtag givewithboc. Show your support and consider giving at your local branch today. Bank of Clark, we're the bank for that.

Happy holidays from all of us at Bank of Clark. Member FDIC. Equal housing lender.

Where have we gone? Go on, sit there, Ian. You're the most... You're the friendliest. Are we having full dinner and everything tonight? Of course we're having a full dinner. George has no order for us. He's no other specialities. He can't come to an Italian restaurant in Turin and not let the local order. He might know what we like. You've just got to trust him, Roy. Trust him. Trust the local knowledge. But how will he know what we like? What do you like? I'll trust him to choose a selection of things that I'm happy with. Who's this? Yeah, but what you're happy with. What you're happy with.

I'm a simple man, super passive. You're going to look at the... It's not mine. You're going to look at the menu. A guy's in his restaurant that basically probably half owns. Yeah, but it doesn't mean to say he knows what we like. I don't know what you like. Tell him what you don't like. I can't read menus. I can't do it. You can't read menus? No, I just hate it.

We'll let him order for you then. Who, the owner? No, Giorgio when he comes in. No, no, no. When people take a half an hour to read a menu, you must know pretty quickly what you want to order, don't you? I sometimes like to... Come back in a half an hour, I'm looking. No, no, no, it's the people who change what's on the menu. Oh, true, that's true. The ones who want to put that with that or that. Would you be able to do that for us and just...

and then go we'd back in five minutes the only thing i don't like anchovies i don't like anchovies i don't like i don't like green sauce like pesto don't think anything like that i think everything else is fine not a great fan of octopus but to be honest with you that appears done it in restaurants in italy and spain

This is the Overlap on Tour Unseen, brought to you by SkyMobile.

LAUGHTER

I like soup. I have to let you try some particular dishes after this. Okay. We'll go with it. And we could find a good Barbarisco Barolo that I know that you like. Is this the wine? Yeah. Nice. He's just drinking. It's nice to see you.

You look in very good shape. I just retired a few months ago and lost three, four kilos because I lost all my muscles. Give me some years. Are you doing anything? Are you going to do any kind of exercise? Not yet because I did surgery at the meniscus. I've broken the last training of my career. Wow.

Before the final, I broke my meniscus, but I played with some injection. And after that, I just fixed it a few months ago. Yeah, a few weeks ago. One month ago, my father is a surgeon, then he wanted to do it. Then I waited for him. Your dad's a surgeon? Yeah. That's a result, isn't it? I just got one meniscus and one ACL. Not bad. That's good. Yeah.

But you injured a lot of players. Yes, I'm playing, yes. He injured a lot of players. Yeah. Sergei, just a capo. Just a capo. You just done your cruciate. That was your only injury, your major injury, a cruciate? Yes, but a lot of muscles. A lot of strain and whatever, yes. Especially calf. Calf, yeah. Calf, near the end or always? No, after 28 years old. 28 years old.

Yeah, not technically good. We are not so far. Intelligent, smart, but... You've got closure after retirement. I know it's still early, but are you happy with your decision? Very happy with my decision to do it a little bit earlier than really the fall down. I think I played on one or two years too many.

I really enjoyed it till the end and the experience in the US was fantastic. Was it? Yes. He said this today. He wanted to go to the US. I met your brother at one event. It's a perfect way not to drop from being the captain of Juventus and national team to zero, but just a little bit downhill, enjoying different culture, different type of living the sport.

even football or soccer as they call it it's very different it's much less pressure and it's a show and entertainment and we are not happy to that it's a life or death every week every three days was it always your plan the last few years you thought you were going to go to the States it was my plan but I

It's not easy to do it. Also, if it is in your mind, sometimes happens that you are playing. And I was thinking to do it at 34, but my best years of my career was from 33 to 35. Until I got my ACA, I broken my knee.

that what happened and after that I said okay it's done I cannot go there at 38 or something and I won the Euros 37 congratulations yeah you know and then the year after I want to go to the last World Cup I missed the qualifier for 2014 I said I want to play 2018 I missed it I want to play 2022 and then retire

But we lost again. And I missed another one and I said, OK, I had this big opportunity and I was trying to figure out to live something different with the family, get my English better and live in a different business vision that they have for football. You know, you mentioned the Euros and you think of that partnership of you

Fabio was a big maestro for me. I played with him a lot of years. Because when you are 13, 14, 15, now they are teaching us...

how to play, how to build up from the goal and to do the pass between the lines and all this stuff. They teach me just how to mark. How to do the little trick in order to not be seen from the referee but to don't permit to the forwards to score is like to...

Yeah, pull them or just step in before the start of, before VR was a different word. They told you this? When I was 14, 15, 16, how to mark into the box, how to... To be aggressive. Be aggressive. But not...

yeah, make some fouls, not pull the, the shirts, the jersey, but just, yeah, have a contact with, little things that, when you arrive and getting older, you learn and, like he did with Saka. That's what I was going to say, with Saka, is this, that was a natural reaction for you? natural reaction. Yeah.

I had no time to think. You thought, you knew what you were doing. But I was very lucid in that situation that I was sure 200% it was just yellow card. That I never was in doubt about that. All the English fans and whatever. No, it's not fair, it's red. No, it's not. They said bad things about you. No, no, no. I deserve it.

I defended you I said that it's just a yellow take that notice of him he's talking rubbish do you think it's yellow or red no it was a yellow but what I was going to say to you in that instance with the game where it was and if you was already on a yellow would you still do this eh

No. If it was 120, no. 120, yes. 90 with 30 minutes of, I don't know. So you'd be able to calculate all this just in case if it was... You know that when you're like in trance and this type of situation, you know.

You know if you have a yellow or not. That's very easy to decide, OK, I could spend a yellow. And that was the best moment to spend. You nearly went to play for Sunderland in 2008. Is that right? Yeah, it was tough. I have a couple of stories to tell you. But the first was for you. I played just against you, of you four. And what's your... Oh, testimonial. Your testimonial. Yes, I was there.

Against Juventus. I picked Juventus because... Because of Roy. Because of Giosby. Because you had a good memory because of Roy. Yeah, but my early... It's the best team I ever played against. We were talking about it this morning. It was the team with Ferrara and Montero. It was Conte, Deschamps, and then it was Vieri, Bocic, Del Piero, Zidane. And it was the best team I ever played against. They beat us 1-0 in Turin, in Stadio d'Alpe, in...

I don't think I've ever been... We were absolutely killed. Absolutely killed. It destroyed us. And I think that team, we were getting better each year. And in 98, we obviously, we got there. But we took two or three lessons off you in that period. For us, Juventus was like a special team in my career, really. When you played for Juventus against Sunderland, it was in 2007, just a pre-season friendly. And after the game, people who were walking with Sunderland were saying that you could be available, you were a young player. I think there was definitely chats... I said yes.

I said yes to my agent. To Sunderland? Yeah. To him, not to Sunderland. To him. Not to Sunderland. But obviously, listen, there was, of course, issues with money and transfer, but I think they were saying about 10 or 12 million at the time. But you were just young. 10 to 15, something in between there. Was that the wages? That was for the agent. What day was it again? 2007? I think 2007. 2007, probably. Yeah. But...

Yes. What position was he playing there? Was he playing left back? Left forward, yeah. Half and half. You still played left back. You played left back against... At the beginning. But you played left back against us for England in 2014 World Cup. Yes. Because at the end we... Yes, we are three centre-backs, very good. And then sometimes Barzali played on the right and sometimes I played on the left. That game I played on the left. You played left, yeah. In other...

Barzali played on the right with Bonucci was covered in the middle between us every time and then we could switch and change the other fullback could play one right back and I could play on the left and one fullback left back and Barzali could play on the right

I didn't like to play on the edge. On the left? No, I prefer to... Always play in the middle. You help. People around you, people support. If you play on the edge, you have to face a sack or a winger. I run much more, but I wasn't so fast. He thinks full-back's easy. He thinks it's easy, full-back. He thinks it's an easy position on the pitch. No way. Full-back? Yeah. Yeah.

When you're a kid, when you decide to let play the worst kid in the park, in the yard. Yeah, right. He started in this way, man. You spoke about the players now in England, the obsession with teams, particularly coming from Pep with Barcelona.

Are the young players in Italy not being told to play out? Is it exactly the same here? Exactly the same. We are trying to copy...

Do you think that's good for everyone just to copy? I think that learning from the best is a good way, but you have to... Not if you can't do it. You have to maintain your identity and our identity is about to have a big defender that obviously you can play better than 20 years ago or 30 years ago, but not try to copy. Not when you're giving the ball away and you're giving goals away. I think that's madness. Yes, I agree. I think it's OK for Man City and Barca who've got the players to do, but you see the less teams doing it. Not good.

I agree with you. Everyone is different. They have to follow their identity and their values. We want good goalkeepers, good defense, and sometimes you could find a goal with a...

Nice play from the number 10 Baggio Del Piero or whatever. The pride for defenders now is players who can play off from the back, but when you played them, the defenders we've been speaking about, their pride was defending, wasn't it? Aggression, clean sheets, knocking people over. Now it's about how many passes, how many... I told you before, we have to change this type of mentality. Yeah, we don't lie.

People before us don't like that we play every three days or we play not at 3pm and we play one game at 2 or 5. We have to adapt. We have to try to maintain our identity, yes, for sure. But also we have to be open to different formats, different ways of involving the new generation. When you look at Italy, Italy are renowned for defending. So I can't understand why they do anything to change anything like that.

because no one wants to play against Italy in respect to defending. Now our best defenders are very technical. Calafiori and Bastogne are very similar but very good players but not at all the defenders. I think centre-back now I think it's the toughest position.

I do because you... Toughening striker having to score, Jamie. No, because think about it. If you're a defender now, centre-back, and you're talking about being a defender, being aggressive, that's a vibrato. No player is perfect. No one has got every quality. But if you're a centre-back now playing for the top team, you've got to receive the ball

inside your own box from the goalkeeper from a goal kick so you've got to be technically probably what we used to associate a midfield player better than the average more than better yeah so you've almost got to be have the technical quality of a midfield player in there and also because the way the team is playing now defence is so high you've almost got to have the pace of a striker you're only half way in Ironman if you want to play for the top teams or the top Champions League teams

If you're slow as a centre-back, you've got no chance. And also, you've got to get the ball... As I said, you've got to have the pace of a striker and the technical quality of a midfielder. That's before you even get into being a defender or talking about where to go, getting blocks and headers and marking in the box. That's before you even get to that. It's tough. Where did you grow up? In Livorno, it's a small town close to Pisa, a tower, a dependent tower. Very small. We know each one...

How far is it from here? Three hours and a half by car. Not as far. So what was the first team you played for? I grew up in my neighbour's home. It's called Livorno 9. 9 is the name of the neighbourhood. Right.

and after that at 13 I started the Livorno Academy I went into the Livorno Academy but I wasn't there was also Empoli or Fiorentina that was much better than that Was you a defender then or was you I was a Roy Keane midfielder worse than you obviously but

as a centre midfielder yes and then started I ran usually ran so much and I started to play on the edge yes like a wing back and then like a left back and then I found my position as a as a centre back so so

Did you find your position as a centre-back at that age? Did you think this is where I should put it? I started 17, 18 when we played back three. I was many times the third and a few times the wing-back. After that, when we played back four, I was always the...

fullback but I wasn't good enough technically and in the modern football I cannot play as a fullback at that time yes sometimes because usually coaches was big defender yeah you cannot play just you if you are not so tall um

And after that when I started to play also center back was easy for me because my technical limits was okay to be a center back and also I spent much less energy running. I was much more using my brain. That's really I did the big step. I was still in the national team as a left back, not as bad.

but not at the same level as a high European level. You know, in the Euro final, what was the feeling or the mentality going into it? England are at home, it's at Wembley. I mean, were you confident going into that game even though England had home advantage? Yeah, we knew that. Was it a 37-game unbeaten run, something crazy like this, wasn't it? We knew that was our... England plays almost every game at home and it's a big advantage for the Euros. Just they played in Rome in the quarterfinals

They played so bad, but they were so effective that we knew that. We wanted to play on their weakness about the pressure. The pressure that there is in England on the national team is unreal. And we have seen also in this game, you know very well. You're aware of that then, obviously, in Italy. Do you think other countries are aware of it? Do you think there's more pressure on England than there is on Italy? For us, it was a dream. For them, it was a nightmare. Yeah.

Just arrived there, we know that, OK, we can enjoy. Then nobody expects us to arrive at that point and to play for win the cup. And it's much easier when we have seen the year after when we have to reach the qualification for the World Cup. The pressure wasn't as good as against Macedonia that we cannot lose again that game again.

another time but it was very different we arrived at the Euros with almost a beat streak of 30 something results that was crazy that's meaning we were a good team I expected to arrive to the quarter final we played a group stage in Rome that helped us a lot and we won easy boom two games and the third we rested

I had time to recover. We were very lucky round of 16 against Austria because Austria was, they run so much. They weren't real and we were lucky, goal disallowed for a few inches and after that Chiesa came in and scored.

But quarter-final, we were confident because Belgium, I think they were over their last chance of this famous golden generation. Hazard was injured, De Bruyne was supposed half and half, instead he played very well. We didn't expect Docu was unreal that game. It was the first game of Docu at a high level, but we were confident. Vertonghen had their vital, not yet.

so good as... Was he worried about Lukaku? Yeah, that was our nightmare. I was injured, I had recovered from my hamstring injury

not strained a little bit less but I didn't expect to play I said to Roberto Mancini the night before coach I cannot play I cannot run fast I just manage I cannot play I guess if I run one time in the space I say ok we'll see take an anti-inflammatory and we'll see tomorrow we speak tomorrow morning

The day after we had like a little warm up on the field, set pieces, but something like, he didn't look at me at all. Neither look at me, how are you, nothing. Lunch, nothing. Snack before the game, we were there.

how do you feel George? I said, okay, we play in two hours. Let's go. What can I do? Was he trying to get his attention? Like just saying, come on, you're asking me. I had some problems after that. I decided to drop and every, and every ball arrived to Lukaku in front because I'd never considered him the depth. Boom, smash him. That's the plan. And I don't know why he stayed all the game with me and not with Leo. He likes to come in with the left foot, but I,

I mean that physically he could destroy the Bonucci much more than me. Did he know that you might have been injured? Was he trying to play on you because he thought you were injured? I don't know.

I don't know. It's amazing how your body can get through a game, isn't it? Before the game, you can be... No, but trust me. But when the whistle goes, you're adrenaline. Yeah, adrenaline. And the same, and after five days, I played under 20 minutes against Spain, and after four days against England, under 20, that 37 wasn't real. But I think that my...

The brain is really powerful. What did you think England's weakness was in the final? I know the pressure, but where did you think England would have problems against you? And they scored after two minutes. That's the best situation for them. But if you remember how we started the game, we had the ball, but they really gave us a corner kick with, I don't remember, Maguire, Shopee. They had the ball. We didn't press. They just... Gave it away. Yeah. The only thing that I...

all the game and half time and try to manage was don't consider them transitions. Maintain the ball, we will have a chance, 100%, but if we want to go there and try to tie the game after five minutes with Sterling, Mount and Harry Kane, they could destroy us.

because on the space... So no counter-attack. Yeah, Bonucci, me, Jorginho, Verratti, who can run? Of these four players, and we were the heart of the game, of the team. Then we don't have to run against Sterling or Mount or concede depth. We have to maintain the ball and be close and compact everywhere. And in this type of situation, we could have the possibility to win. And...

late into the game the pressure is higher and higher and higher so by keeping the ball basically yeah keeping the ball keeping the ball we've been talking about this this last summer we've been doing the television and I've obviously played for England in tournaments where do you like it yes we never keep the ball well let's see

It's a massive problem for us because when you get into a later in the tournament, your legs start to go tired. You can't counter-attack from deep positions. Why do you think we can't keep the ball? What do you think it is when you look at England? Even this summer now just going against Spain or in the game against you, we've lost two finals through not being able to keep the ball. Yeah, I think you know, but the idea of Southgate is to be very effective, to be very solid.

every time and it worked because the result that Sattler had in his career England never had it. Cheers. Cheers. Before you tell us where we're going wrong. It's coming to Rome. Yeah, that was interesting. I like the not the way how they play but how they are very solid every time and

They believe it's the best way to arrive... But you're solid, but you also keep the ball. We were... Yeah, we are both different players. With Verratti and Jorginho especially, and Moroschi, you are... I've been seeing this type of connection. If you remove us, remove Verratti and Jorginho, we cannot...

have the ball with Calvin Phillips and Cristante for example. Even in 2012 you have Pirlo playing in this position and you play a thousand passes but it's not just one tournament it's two, three, four tournaments and we're trying to work out why we can never keep the ball in tournaments. I think that you have to use much more your strength. You have a fantastical winger then also yeah you have Jude that is box to box midfielder now plays at hand but is a box to box midfielder Foden is fantastic

doing so well this season Kane is very good connecting passes and be the link between the that you have this type of things you have the best right fullback after you now that he's playing that Kyle is a really that this is a

one of the most typical... What is that? Which one do you want? Veal. It's veal. I'm not veal. I prefer this one. You prefer this one? Yeah. What's this one? What's this one? What's this one? It's like raw meat. Carpaccio with meat. Meat carpaccio. You cannot have everything. That's what I mean. Everyone likes to be like a Spain...

Not everyone could be like Spain. We told before, I think that England need a

Pretty good tournament, they could play very well. The only thing I could complain with Southgate, obviously we were talking and it's not easy to be there, and he never tried something different before the Euros, like to find a way to let them play together, Saka, Foden and Bellingham, because Bellingham played as a wing-back sometimes, defending on the left, or Foden did it.

probably try to find before during the qualification so easy for England that you have a lot of time before to find a way to let them play in the right position in order to use them very well. He didn't arrive to the Euros in the way. He had this problem at the Euros and sometimes you have to take a decision, hard decision, but I think that they were close to win, but they didn't play so well together. And

I think what you're saying, which I think is interesting, when you're looking at your own country, you're always looking at the negatives. And you're looking at, say, you play to your strengths. And every country does have an identity, doesn't it? You're talking about Italy in the past being a strong defender. Defensive, yeah. And we've got to be careful of that. What are we? Not every country becomes the same. I feel like that in club football. Every country...

I'm very jealous about your roster, about to have food and about to have value. Probably you were jealous to have this type of solidity. Yes.

That's what we needed. At the end, you really were so close. Because we are talking about penalty, that is nothing. We know very well that everybody could win at penalty kicks. And if England won that game and Rashford or Saka scored, celebrating the best team of the English foot of the history of England, that's...

sometimes really some details could change everything. We were talking about with some friends before about Spain. They deserve to win. But I think that they deserve to be kicked out of the Euros because of the penalty of Cucurella. That's so clear. It's a big mistake like the Lampard goal in Germany. Yeah.

And probably if Germany was there, we were talking about a different history. And now Spain is the best. Little details really make the difference in our world. The Overlap on Tour is brought to you by Sky Mobile, the network that lets you roll your data and keep it longer than anyone else. For more information, visit sky.com forward slash shop forward slash mobile. At Leidos, a brilliant mind is smart, but a brilliant team is smarter.

A ship that finds enemy subs is smart, but an autonomous fleet, that's smarter. Defending against cyber attacks, smart. Stopping attacks before they start, smarter. And using AI tools is smart, but integrating trusted mission AI into your technology is smarter. We're not just making technology solutions in national security and health. We're making smart, smarter. Leidos.

Hey marketers, are you ready to discover the latest trends in podcast advertising? The Podcast Pulse report by ACAST is out now, packed with fresh audience insights into why podcasts are a must-have marketing strategy. Learn how podcast audiences are more engaged than ever, why hosts are trusted voices for brands, and how niche shows are delivering massive impact. Download the report today at podcastpulse2024.acast.com.

If you want to know more about the game's greatest characters, matches that changed football forever and the stories behind the bribes, the bans and the on-pitch battles, listen to It Was What It Was. It's the Overlaps Football History podcast presented by two of the world's best football journalists, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper. Each week we dive deep into the key moments in football history that have shaped the game as we know it.

From notorious managers to pivotal matches, we go behind the scenes to bring you the best tales the game has to tell. Stories including one of football's most infamous match fixes, its first global superstar, or the rise and fall of Sir Alf Ramsey's England. Join us at Football University. Take a journey through football's amazing history. Subscribe to It Was What It Was Now. This is the Overlap on Tour Unseen, brought to you by Sky Mobile.

No, I'm not doing that. See, that is terrifying. You can watch all of the action from the boys' trip around Europe on Skymax and Now TV. Oh, my God! Do you wish you played in the Premier League? I would have loved. Yeah? I think that for my... It would have suited you, I think. Yeah, yeah. Not as old. I cannot have played until 37 like I did in Italy, but in my 26 to 32, 34, I can't.

I could have played very well and enjoyed a lot. You would have enjoyed Sunderland? The weather? Yeah. Beautiful weather. Which club would you like to play? If you could choose, Georgia. Okay, it's not to leak in some... But yeah, well, Italy has a big legacy with Chelsea because of a lot of players. But my team, when I grew up and also when I started to play with Juventus, was Manchester United. I saw Manchester United...

as a very similar team like Juventus was in Italy. I used to see that. And Bayern Munich in Germany. These three teams really were, for me, very similar. And I played with Patrice Evra and they told me the same. Now, obviously, Manchester United is very different. Juventus is very different. Bayern...

But at that time, like, to be the strength, the power that these teams has, and also the leadership of the club, like, the style was for me very similar. What are we having? What's the speciality? Yeah, agnolotti. Agnolotti... This one's this one? Agnolotti al su. Stuffed pasta, piemontese. It's not a summer dish, but today it's not so hot that we could try. LAUGHTER

Do you want to share? Yeah, sure. Okay, perfect. It's okay to share to first course and to second course? Yeah, yeah. Then if you want just to try, it's okay. I'm not a big eater, but I want to be a good host. Yes.

You've won everything in it, but the Champions League was the one trophy and then Cristiano was supposed to come and win the Champions League. I think that the first year of Cristiano in which at the end Liverpool won against Tottenham, we were very unlucky. We arrived at the quarter-final after beating Atletico in a big comeback. Mm-hmm.

But right before the game against Ajax, we had two or three big injuries of key players. It was me, it was Mandzukic, it was Khedira. That's really the spine and the heart of the team. It was missing those games. Dybala was out the second one or the first one, I don't remember. Douglas Costa the same. We really missed...

The best player, also Cristiano, wasn't fit. He recovered for the first game without training and he was supposed to start from the bench. You know better than me that Cristiano cannot start from the bench in Champions League. That's not really supposed, but he didn't train until the day before. He scored. But we were really unlucky the first year. Then the second year, we weren't good enough to win Champions League. But I think that the first year, I imagine if we had beaten...

Ajax, we would have faced Tottenham in the semi-final and Liverpool in the final. It's not impossible. We arrived two times to the final, played against Barcelona, Real Madrid, both twice, and it's not easy to beat them. Yeah.

I played against that team when I was in Valencia. It was incredible, that team. That front three was...

They found a way to get along together after January/February and after they were unstoppable. In 2017 against Cristiano with Bale and Casemiro they found the stability because we have beaten Real when they played with Ames as a midfielder and the three forwards and just offensive team we defend very well.

We defend and then we score. But when they play with Casemiro and Garreton on the bench, and they play with Isco. And Isco really was the people that broke our...

plan. Was that Cardiff? Yes, but Isco was really unstoppable because he creates superiority right and left and the middle and it wasn't easy for us to stop them and the situation. He had a beautiful season, Isco, because

we could manage Gareth on the left, it's hard. We could concede a couple of chances, but do you know what he's doing? Okay, go on the depth, coming inside, it's hard, but you could do it. And Benzema, okay, it's hard, but when something like Isco, that season was really... You don't know what's coming, bro. Isco, unpredictable. That's the most difficult thing for a defender, I think something that unexpected.

One unpredictable player is much worse than one good but predictable player. But when you played for Juventus and all them big games, your history must have... When we played for Man United, obviously I'm sure the lads at Liverpool are... Your history can still get you through big games. Even if you're missing a few players...

Liverpool definitely got to big finals on the back of their history, didn't they? Obviously, we all know that. But we are also a little bit unlucky with the Champions League final. As a club, we are the club that lost more Champions League finals in the East. We just won two out of nine. It's incredible. I think when you're in England and you think of a team in Italy, I think of AC Milan.

Yeah, for a Champions League. Especially with what they've done to Barcelona. But in Italy, I think Juventus is seen as the biggest team. When I think of a team in Italy, I think of Juventus. Juventus is the best team, but for a Champions League, Milan is the best team. That's what I'm saying, yeah. 100%. For people maybe outside of Italy, because we see maybe the Champions League more, the old European Cup. Look at the numbers of the...

Scudetto of the title. Exactly. So in Italy, it's Juventus. 38 against 20 now this year Inter Milan and 19 AC Milan. That's the difference that we have. Neither close because we are consistent, we are pragmatic, we are hard worker in the value of the club since hundreds of years ago was the same.

Milan is much more entertainment we see in Hollywood as much you know what I think what happened but not every Sunday no matter what you go there and also if it's cold also if it's raining also if you are tired because you play Champions League you win that's what was in the Juventus mentality we've seen before about Ronaldo coming in then the way you've described the club in Juventus and the mentality what was it like bringing in like a you know a global superstar maybe does that suit the mentality of Juventus yeah

It was hard at the beginning for all the club because we didn't have one multinational company like Coca-Cola or whatever running into your club and manage all this stuff. We...

We had pressure, we were followed, whatever, also by people when we traveled, but not as when Ronaldo was there. Completely changed. I think that was obviously a very good consequence, also bad, because some players, I don't want to mention, but some players look just at what he was doing at 35.

like resting a little bit, managing during the week, like be really 100% in training just for Champions League. But it's not Ronaldo, it's not just the picture. And the response of Ronaldo was then, when you are losing, he had the balls to call the balls, no matter what, try to win, shoot from everywhere in order to lead the team to win. And it's not easy to do it for a lot of players.

He had good cons and bad cons. I love to play with him because working with him and look at him every day with little details is very nice. I was 35 and he was 34, something just six months between us. And we weren't obviously at our prime, but it was very funny to play with him and look at him.

How much bigger is his personality? We cannot say for me it's better Messi or Cristiano, but if I have to pick one for a final, Cristiano or... Cristiano or Messi? I love to play with Cristiano and I saw when the game is more difficult, he raises his level of performance.

His approach is totally different when we play Champions League. Also, if Champions League is against Bate Borisov, I don't know. For him, Champions League is different. I'm disappointed that we didn't win the Champions League with him. It could be for him the biggest trophy of his career because he went to Juventus to show that he could win. Not alone, but...

But the Champions League, we didn't help him so much. You think? The first year. After that, we were getting older. It was like, yeah, one call, yeah, all-in. We did all-in. We weren't lucky, we lost, but we tried.

Would you players back in Italy have a clause where you could go for 10 million or 20 million? No. I didn't tell you. Players would, yeah? Yeah. But you never believed, you just thought... I signed a contract, I arrived in Juventus in 2001.

Four, then went on loan and signed another contract in 2006, and then eight, and then ten, but because I was growing up so much. And after that, I signed in 2014 and 2018. I arrived almost close to the end, just at the beginning of my career, but I did the step very naturally, not asking money every time. They reached out to me in order to not allow me to think to leave.

Oh, OK. So before you even thinking about it, they already offered you a deal. Yeah. That's how you meant to do it, really. You don't want people getting to their last year. But the Bosman rule changed. Did the Bosman rule affect players in it? Were they not thinking about running their contracts down? No, it just... It depends on the people. Everyone is different. Every player is different. Yeah, you are different from me and maybe you ask every... After one game, you ask for more money or I'm OK with what I have. Yeah, probably. No, no, no, no, no, no.

No, everyone is different. But at the end, for me, Juventus was like a family. Yeah, it happened also a bad period that you think to leave but need to leave.

really think to live and also I was lucky that was getting better and better. That year that I was thinking about Manchester City because we arrived for two seasons in a row seven plays and the pressure on Juventus to be seven I said oh I want to play Champions League I want to play at that level okay I'm not doing well like my teammates but I'm better than them at that time and I wanted to play for a better team and I loved England's style English style that

could be a good chance for me to go there but fortunately it didn't happen because of my legacy with Juventus and what happened later. You know with Juventus, you know when they got demoted to the second division, was there anybody that came for you then?

- No, but because... - He was never going to leave. - No, I was 22. - Yeah, 22. For me it was not so bad. It's OK, one year... But I did one year and I played 23 appearances. Half and half almost. Maybe a little bit less than half in my first year in Juventus and it was OK.

Second division in Serie B, okay, okay. I could stay in Serie B, in second division one year, but I'm going to be a starter and grew up to be a starter of Juventus in Serie A the next year. It's okay. I wasn't in the same situation. So it worked out for you. Yeah, it worked for you. Yeah, I wasn't in the same situation as Buffon, Del Piero, Treseghe. They're right. They won Camorra-Nez. They won the World Cup.

and then they played the second division. No, it wasn't. Did they all stay? They stayed, yeah. Piero, Buffon, Treseguet, Nedved, Camorra Nisi, they stayed. Not easy. That's massive, eh? Massive. But the story of Buffon was...

Did I give him a new contract? Or he just stayed with his same contract?

I don't think so. Not more money. If it was a new contract, it was for less money because in second division. That's amazing. Stay here one year is not a problem for me. Because sometimes when you feel like a family, and probably all of you had this feeling. Yes. The supporters loved you for that. The supporters must have loved the players for staying. Yeah. They were very grateful to them. Forever. They loved the players that decided to stay.

Was there any players that decided to leave? Most of the players decided to leave, but it's acceptable for me and understandable. Cannavaro, Ibrahimovic, Zambrotta, but also the club cannot...

maintain all of these players for the salaries. Yeah, of course. Yeah, because it was unreal at that time. If you play Champions League and you fight for wins in Champions League, it's okay. Instead, no. That was a compromise and a balance. I don't know who really decided to leave, who really wanted to stay. But for me, it was a fun year. We went in every little, small village in Serie B. We started with...

nine point of at the beginning 17 but after one month nine point of penalization at Christmas we were already first and it was every Sunday it was yeah like a party yes and then we have two days off every time every week stay there

And there was 22. Yes. So every ground you went to, everyone full? Full. But also now. Imagine at that time in Syrie because you went in some village that you never played against anymore. It's like Man City next season in Grimsby. In Grimsby. In Grimsby. Carlisle. Who is seen as the greatest...

Best coach I had in my career? I was very lucky because I had Mancini, I had Conte, I had Allegri, I had Lippi at that time. Wow. I was so young. I had Capello, very young. Thank you very much.

The two biggest coaches of my career are Allegri and Conte because of the year I spent with them, like five years at least with both of them. They're very different, probably the opposite, but they are so good. It's hard to stay with Conte because he's very demanding. Conte is very demanding. Is he? Yes. Daily demanding...

24 hours a day, 7 to 7, 365 almost. But he's a very good leader and sometimes you are able to don't feel this type of fatigue.

Also, you run a lot. How much I run a lot. Is this why after three years, people just... I think now, I don't know if he has changed now, but two, three years is a good time. He's able to squeeze everything from the people. Or he has to change all the roster and it's very hard...

or just have a few players or he has to leave. And also sometimes he needs new goals. He needs to change also. It's very similar, I think, to Ancelotti. I miss him and Spalletti, one of the biggest of the Italian last 20 years. But he's very able to raise the level of the pressure and to prepare a few games. I love also Mancini. It was a big discovery for me.

because I always played against him and he seems for me prickly and it's very different he's so generous and humble he's shy he's quiet he doesn't like to speak a lot and with Viale they were the perfect duo also as a coach and Viale was the head of delegation whatever because Viale

Gianluca was a fantastic speaker. He was able to add some speech that arrived into your heart to pull out something from not just from yourself. While Mancini is just to give confidence, come a few details on the field, just two, three little things, but very direct and for the national team was...

Perfect. Good fit. It felt really good watching Mancini and Vialli. Yeah, the image of Vialli and Mancini. It was beautiful.

This is the very famous dish, agnolotti al sugo. And this is a normal pomodoro. You mentioned Lippi. One story about Lippi. United, we played them in a group match against Juventus. We beat Juventus 4-0 in Juventus. Lippi's the manager on the sideline. So Juventus losing 4-0 at home, Lippi has a cigar.

As if he was winning 4-0. Now cigarette is very different in our generation, but the old generation cigarette is very normal. But losing 4-0, losing 4-0 and going, hey, just having his little cigar, beautiful. Yes. How was Alex, Sir Alex? Sir Alex, ask Gary. Do you know who you're talking about? Ask Gary. No, but you can imagine now.

Go on, go on. You take it away. To be honest with you, I think he was an incredible man-manager. Yeah, but you cannot compare to what... No, but the expectation every single day and the intensity every single day was high. So the expectation was... I've never known anybody other than probably him, similar, that disliked winning as much. Almost winning... Sorry, disliked losing. Losing was like a...

It was a disaster. Like a crisis. Every single match. So it was intense. I asked Camus about him...

I'm going to have some of that.

About the preseason, we played against. You were a coach in Sandler. I still remember the August...

in Newcastle and Sunderland. In Italy it was like 35, 38 degrees. And we went there and we found like 10 degrees and wind. It was so windy that we cannot even pass the ball just on the ground. It was very cold wind in August. I cannot imagine December there. We were happy with the draw.

1-1. Yeah, not so friendly. We were pleased. But a lot of friendly games for Italian teams is 1-1. All right, all right. You took it easy. Do you remember your team that day? Can I test you? No, not at all.

I'm trying to think of an Italian player who played for United. Giuseppe Rossi? Yes. I spoke with him a few days ago because he liked filming a documentary. He's a nice guy. He's a good player. He was very little. He's a beautiful little player. I tried to bring him to Sunderland. I spoke to him. You tried to bring a lot of players. I was trying to get good players. That's a manager's job.

He had a choice of Sunderland or Villarreal, I think. And he went to Villarreal and done really well. He had a couple of injuries, but done really well. How many other Italian players? Oh, Makeda. Makeda. Oh,

Taibbi. Taibbi. He had a difficult time at United. He let one through his legs. It was probably too high. But he came back to Italy and had a good career. By the average team. He went to AC Milan and he didn't play very well, honestly. He had a good career, obviously, but not as Manchester United. Of course, but that can happen.

You know, go to a big club but doesn't work out. But he played lots of games. So what other Italian player? I'm trying to think of the most famous Italian player that's played for United.

Darmian. And just a few appearances, but he scored the bat. It was Makeda. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy guy. The Overlap on Tour is brought to you by Sky Mobile, the network that lets you roll your data and keep it longer than anyone else. For more information, visit sky.com forward slash shop forward slash mobile.

This is the Overlap on Tour, Unseen, brought to you by Sky Mobile. See, that is terrifying. You can watch all of the action from the boys' trip around Europe on Sky Max and Now TV. What do you make of the Super League? Because Juventus were one of the clubs. Yes, Andrea Agnelli was. Andrea Agnelli, obviously Barcelona and Real Madrid were the three clubs. We didn't know anything. No. I laughed.

to watch and play much more European games than domestic league. You want to play more European games? Much more. I think that in Italy we have at least two clubs to match.

In the Premier League? In the Italian League. But I could say maybe four. Wow. But also I think fans, they could be much more happy if they see every week Juventus-Manchester United, Juventus-Barcelona, Juventus-Ramadino, Juventus-Empoli or Juventus-Leipzig. If you have less teams, the quality of the league could be higher because every year at least one or two teams are relegated in January in every league.

and you could play this type of games in the European competition that is much better and what is happening now I would have loved to play much more games in Champions League than what I've played but now I cannot understand how my former teammates could play this amount of games this year Juventus has at least 10 games almost in Champions League and not anymore 6 because we have 8 games and they play off honestly Juventus I think that can

cannot be the first eight and cannot be the last eight and probably have to play off. And after that, you start the round of 16. And after that, you have a club work-up. That's crazy. I don't want a tough game, but I understand why it's doing because everyone is looking at their personal interest. It's normal. But the Italian league

Where is the Italian league at at this moment in time? Okay, the real Super League is the Premier League now. Yes. It's the Super League. You could call it however you want, but it's the Super League. Is that the problem really for Italy, that they look at it and think... It's not about the problem. It's the Super League. It's not the problem that it's the Super League, but...

Premier League is Super League and will be the Super League for at least five years, what is the TV right? But is that why Juventus, Real Madrid and Barcelona... That's why they tried. They tried to create the Super League because the Premier League is a problem. Yes, because I think also we had some money problems after the COVID, I think that accelerated this type of process. But how could this type of league try to fight against Premier League?

stay together. That if you look at the future, all these European teams...

find a way to stay together against the Premier League or the gap between the Premier League and all the other leagues will become higher and higher, bigger and bigger. And the only team that could face this type of problem could be, yeah, state, government, could be PSG, whatever, but you know how Manchester City now has this type of problem, or Real Madrid and Barcelona, the

that are the biggest revenue but cannot be an Italian team at the end it's not meaning that you win but it's meaning that you hire the best players that's for sure but how does the Italian how do you think the Italian league can get back to this

Now there's no way. There's no way? To Premier League. To get back to this level, no? Yeah, no. I think that now there's no way. They could start to have a little step better, obviously building a better show for people and try to sell TV rights better and make it more sustainable to get higher altogether. But you cannot... But imagine if Bournemouth...

could buy easily a player of your best team. Bournemouth could arrive and buy one Inter or Juventus player easily. It's something that is... I'm not against Bournemouth, but I mean also another team. I hear what you're saying. But that was sad. I remember that Bournemouth was in contact with Zaniola. There was...

Roma, that was the fourth or fifth team in Italy, was so close that they decided to go to Galatasaray because they refused. Roma has already sold to them and last year, I think in January, there was no move in the Italian transfer window until the...

One Bournemouth or someone else, Brighton, whatever, both a player from Sassuolo and then Sassuolo, but one from Impoli and then Impoli. You have to wait for the English league to move. That's what I knew at Tonali last year. Do you think the style of football in England, the way it's played, is a big help? It goes around the world and people are more excited. Look at the stadium that we have in Italy and look at the stadium that you have in the second in the Championship. Yeah.

That's fantastic. Also if it's old, also if it's just 15,000, it's fantastic. Everyone is close, everyone... And we don't have a lot of this stadium, and that's first. The shows is nice, yes, but also other league has a nice show. It's not just about the show, it's about you sell this show. And I think you were the greatest and the first. And now it's hard.

I think that we are a little bit worse than La Liga because La Liga with Barcelona and Real Madrid, they are way better than us.

I don't see our league worse than the others, than German league, French league. And we had a good result because at the end, the good thing about Italian is that we found a way to solve problems. And last year we were almost, the last two years of European competition we were so good because we found a way, but we don't have the best player at all. You have a lot of teams in Europe next season. Do you have eight teams or nine teams in Europe next season? Yeah, a lot.

A lot. I don't know. Five in Champions League, for sure. And then, yeah, probably eight. We have eight. We risk the ninth if Fiorentina and Roma would have won both Conference League and Europa League. We risk to arrive to nine. That's crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the famous Brasato...

It's like, yeah, it's meal. Beef? Beef, this is cooked with wine, with Barolo. And it's very soft. It's different from Fiorentina or a classic steak, but it's very famous in Turin. Thank you very much. You know, Jan, and just talking to Arsene, I was one of the...

Probably stupid guy at 16 because I was playing in the third division in the academy and I received a big offer from Arsenal. At 16? No, at all. They were sure that I accepted and at 16 there is a free transfer. I didn't want to leave my hometown for free. I said to my...

manager yeah management at that time said I don't like to do it this way I signed a contract and if you find an agreement with Arsenal I will go there but not in this way then they asked a lot of money and we didn't do it

But at the end, I have two daughters, they are nine and five, but if I have a boy at that age, I would say, go, go. The third division, not a similar event. The third division, neither professional. My coaches were really nice people, but not at all coaches.

I decided to do it in this way. I don't know. It worked, but it was a bad decision at that time, I think, because imagine... Your intentions were good. Yes. Yeah, but you've morally done the right thing for yourself. I think that for them it was done because they came to me, gave me a big offer, called me at Arsenal and I was in Livorno. You don't need... See, Arsenal, we were spread wide. You're looking for people like...

Giorgio, at that stage, man. Are you going to go into television and do some television as well? I did it, I enjoyed it. I don't know. Now I wanted to try to be part of the active side. But I liked it. It's nice because you could follow the game, you could explain your inside. And I think that if you explain and...

give your opinion and argument that you could say everything I wasn't one that was just to give the titles the ad titles or something but if I have to say for me it's not good he's not good what because he is missing this type of things because he's that's how we started but then after a few years you know less people

Yeah, but it was funny. I did it in the US. It is very different of what I did in Italy. Yeah. That's very different request. But I love both. Did you work for Fox? Yes. Fox. With Jules Bridge. Jules Bridge. And Daniel Starwich. Ah, nice one. You'll have to go on Monday Night Football with Jamie. It's the programme in England. You should go, yeah. Yeah, it's good for you. Deal? Deal.

Deal or no deal? You have to do some stuff for defending, Jay. I have to ask him. I know he's earning a lot of money, I'm doing it for free. He's asking me to do it for free? I'll tell you later. I'll tell you later what to ask for. But it happened today the same. Yeah, you have to be here with these four fantastic guys. They earn the money, you have the deal. LAUGHTER

We'll pay for the meal, though. That's why I wanted to order a big bad barista. But they, right before the restaurant, said, no, no big wine. Just the cheap budget. Did they say that? That's in Gary's head now. You're in trouble now.

All the great players, nice pictures. Yeah? Yeah, not me, but all the great... Not yet. So you don't come here before? This is your first time here? No, I went here. It's very historical for the past generation. And when I arrived, there was the same owner as another restaurant for young players. I went much more in the other one. I was 21. Yeah.

And here it's for the family. I was almost alone. That's a very different time. But yeah, I know very well. So we need to get your picture up on the wall tonight. We need to have a picture. Just a second. Are you bringing a cake or something? No, he'll get a little bit of dessert because he likes dessert. So do we. What does it look like? I see if I bring some ice cream. It's boiling. LAUGHTER

Pour it on, mate. I'll tell you what, when you went for the second bottle of wine, I was like, jeez. It's really good, isn't it? I don't know if someone has finished that wine. It's an insult if you don't finish it. I know, don't worry about it. Just get that. It's so emotional. It's insulting, I do. I have a surprise. CHEERING

I was at an event of classic shirts and they asked me, "Okay, pick one." Oh, wow. Wow. I picked three honestly, but the first. I said, I look at the first, was not Ronaldo, was not Messi. Was it Neville? I said, "No." I said, "Okay, wow."

I want the Manchester United. You look good in that shirt. You look good in it. 94 kit? 1994, yeah. I used to look at it and think, look at this stupid lace in it. There you go, you see? You have to wear this. You cannot leave. I don't want to fight with you. I don't want to fight at all. I'm

I'm a peaceful guy, but I'm asking you before leaving, I need your... That's a beautiful thing. No fight until later. It's too early. No, it's too early. But in Italy, you are more famous than probably in England. No. For sure, more appreciated.

More appreciated. Much more, because in England, obviously, you have a lot of fans, but a lot of also... He's misunderstood. I came to a game years ago. I came off to watch a match with my friend. I think I might have just finished playing. We came to watch the Milan derby, just got tickets, and the next day we've been down to watch. Roma were playing somebody, and we thought we'd go to the game. So me and my friend went down, and we had a driver. So we're driving to the stadium...

We're just going as fans just to watch the game. So the police were stopping us. So I'm a passenger, the driver. So the police said, "No, no, no." The guy, the driver went, "Capitano, man, you know." "Capitano." I was fucking... The police went, "Yeah, go through." I was so embarrassed, honest to God. - Someone ever recognise today? - Yeah. - Today? - Yeah.

Not so bad. Not so bad. OK, but it's not easy. It's not obvious. And I think that, OK, maybe not now, but in 10 years, if I'm going to England, I don't think that a lot of fans could recognise that. No, no, no. People love you. They'll remember you. They'll remember you. People love you. They'll remember you for soccer. They'll be waiting at the airport for you. Yeah, they'll be...

I was doing the TV broadcasting. All the England fans were screaming, Wonkers! Wonkers! Wonkers! I was bringing the road cup into the field and after that I did the broadcasting and it was really in the middle of the English stands. Wonkers!

- I was laughing. - It's okay. - Good stuff, Jojo. - This is the Overlap on Tour Unseen, brought to you by SkyMobile. - Come on, say hi to the camera. - He doesn't normally do this, Jojo. - I still have my glasses, yeah. I usually have a knife with me, I do this. - Okay, I'll do this a bit more in the end. - I'll just sign it and we do the rest later. - You didn't sign for him, but he signed for you. - Yes. - I signed Jojo.

The Overlap on Tour is brought to you by Sky Mobile. You can watch all of the action from the boys' trip around Europe on Sky Max and Now TV. No, I'm not doing it. Having hit the UK and Ireland last series, they're back. Oh, no! Here we go again. Oh!

Gary Neville. Roy Keane. Not good, lads. And Jamie Carragher. Jamie, what are you doing? Adjoined by Ian Wright. Look at my guy! As they go continental. That is terrifying. Revisiting the scenes of their most memorable matches.

Getting to know some of the greatest European cities. In a way that they never could as players. And the fun continues in front of a live Manchester audience. Whose idea was this? Welcome to the Overlap on Tour.

Hey marketers, are you ready to discover the latest trends in podcast advertising? The Podcast Pulse report by ACAST is out now, packed with fresh audience insights into why podcasts are a must-have marketing strategy. Learn how podcast audiences are more engaged than ever, why hosts are trusted voices for brands, and how niche shows are delivering massive impact. Download the report today at podcastpulse2024.acast.com.