Matt Gaetz WITHDRAWS as AG, and Biden Escalates Russia-Ukraine War in Final Weeks, with Andrew Klavan and Jeffrey Sachs | Ep. 950
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Hey, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. There's so much to get to today. While the follow-over Representative Nancy Mace's bathroom bill continues, Congresswoman AOC says forcing men to use the men's bathrooms is disgusting.

Okay. And The View is forced to read a hostage message after their legally dubious coverage of Matt Gaetz. It's the must-see video of the day. Joining me now, Andrew Klavan, host of The Andrew Klavan Show over at The Daily Wire. Andrew is also a prolific author, and his most recent book is a mystery novel titled A Woman Underground. ♪

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Andrew, welcome back. Great to see you. Great to see you, Megan. Thanks for having me. So the left is losing its mind over these Trump cabinet picks. I mean, they they're not grateful that he chose Rubio for state or, you know, Elise Stefanik for the U.N. They're just spending all their time telling us how radical he is because of Gates, Trump.

Heg Seth and RFKJ and Tulsi. And, uh, the view got a little, a little too excited in its coverage of, um, Matt Gates the other day. And is this just the apology video in number two, Deb? Okay. This is all of it. Okay. So here is where they misstepped. And then the hostage video that they were forced to read thereafter. Watch that too.

could you nominate someone with allegations of child trafficking across or trafficking across state lines and having sex with a 17 year old? My understanding further on in the interview, they discussed the fact that once he finds out that she's 17, he stops having sex with her. I'm saddened by it because all of those women who will have to get some defense of what's happened to them,

That's who they're going to. Yes. And this is someone who will just say it's not a big deal. All those little kids who, you know, get abused. What? They got no recourse now because this is what's in charge. Matt Gaetz has long denied all allegations, calling the claims, quote, invented and saying in a statement to ABC News that this false smear following a three-year criminal investigation should be viewed with great skepticism and

That DOJ investigation was closed with no charges being brought. Oh my God. All those little kids who got abused have no recourse? This is about a child? The worst of the allegations as we know them is that he denies it, but he's accused of having an

interlude with a 17-year-old who then, even his eyewitnesses who are against him say he didn't know was 17, then stopped the relationship. This is the worst, the worst allegation against him, which he denies.

And the DOJ did not bring charges because they did not find these witnesses credible. But in any event, it is that then he stopped the relation and resumed it when this young woman was 18. And from that, the view gets all these little kids who get abused by him now have no recourse. Andrew, I can't.

Well, first of all, this is the party, not just of John F. Kennedy, but of Bill Clinton and of George Stephanopoulos, who went from silencing the women who accused Clinton of rape and abuse to having a major network anchor position on the on the basis of that work. Basically, that was his requirements.

You know, one of the delicious things about the Trump election, and I'm finding it just absolutely wildly ecstatic. I'm just loving every minute of this transition. This is the best transition ever. And one of the best things about it is exposing the left's blindness to the way they've behaved.

because the appointments that Trump is making are appointments to departments and divisions that are entirely out of whack, that have abused our rights, that have just been incompetent, that have absolutely gone south in every possible way. And he's sending in bomb throwers. There's no question about it. He's sending in guys who are going in there like Roto-Rooter to clean the places out. And they're saying, you know, why should we ever do this? Why should we abandon longstanding practices at

Health and Human Services, after Health and Human Services destroyed this country during the COVID pandemic,

pandemic by acting so incompetently, so stupidly, so corruptly and so oppressively that anything you did to them would be an improvement. And the same actually with the Defense Department, which has been a total mess under the Biden regime. I'm kind of past it. You know, I don't want criminals appointed. I think if you have a criminal record and it's an actual active criminal record, that

that could count against you, but that these are bad boys that he sent the in there really just doesn't bother me at all. I am absolutely past caring what the left thinks of any about anything because of the way they have treated us, the, the oppression, the censorship, the lies and the, uh, uh,

prosecuting their political opponents and the person of Donald Trump and the people who followed him and the people who protested peacefully on January 6th. It's just been an absolute mess. So the fact that he's going in there with some bad guys to take things apart does not bother me even a little bit. I cannot work myself up about it.

I know. In any way whatsoever. I can relate. I'm like, the more I see how much they hate him, the more I want him. I know. It's great. It is great. And it's such a rebuke to this system of the academy, the media, and

you know, Hollywood and the bureaucracy that were thrown up against this guy with all the force they had, all the lies they had, every statement he made taken out of context, every gesture he may taken to mean something it didn't mean again and again and again, the people show up and just said no. And, you know, people keep saying, well, he doesn't really have a mandate because he's going to come out with about 50 percent of the vote to 48 percent somewhere around there. And they say, well, that's not a mandate. That's very close. But that's not the victory. The victory is not

Republicans over Democrats. It's not conservatives over liberals. It's Donald Trump over the media and this shroud of lies that has basically been choking this country for decades at this point. You know, it's just an amazing victory that he could actually come back from where he was when they were counting him out, when they were throwing ridiculous charges against him, when they were...

bending the law so that people could accuse him of things that had gone past the limits of prosecution. It's just an amazing victory. And that's what's so delicious about it is not the vote count, not the I'm glad he won the popular vote, but still, it's not that that's so wonderful. It's the destruction, the rebuke of this communication system that

that has throttled this country and throttled conversation, throttled debate, and throttled freedom for just so long. And it is a major, major victory. So everything they say is just making me laugh with an evil kind of cartoon villain laugh.

Yeah. Which I've been practicing for years, by the way. Well, I'd love to hear it. I mean, let's let it rip. I'm sure it'll pop up from time to time. Okay. Okay. You mentioned that now they're trying to say, look, it's not a mandate. It's not a mandate. It's been very kind of fun watching them try to find the little comforts, you know, like, well, he cheated on me, but...

The woman wasn't a 10. She was like an eight. OK, we need to get yourself through this crisis. Go for it. I'll give you Harry Enten on CNN doing a report on how it's a victory, but it's a it's a shitty victory. Watch.

Look, historically speaking, Donald Trump is now under 50% in the national popular vote. His popular vote victory ranks 44th out of 51. That ain't exactly strong. Some might argue that is weak, weak, weak in the words of Tony Blair. In fact, his popular vote win at this point is the weakest going all the way back. You have to go all the way back to 2000 to find a weaker one, a smaller popular vote victory than Donald Trump currently has. So yeah, Trump has won the popular vote.

But it ain't all that, my dear friend, John Berman. George W. Bush had a bigger popular vote in 2004. You talk about the Senate. Short coattails. States Trump won, but Democrats won or lead in the Senate race. Look at this. In 2016, it was zero. In 2020, it was zero.

In 2024, look at this. Four states, four states where a Senate Democratic candidate won. What about the House? Well, we're talking about a historically small majority potentially for the Republicans. The GOP would have a record small majority if the current House results hold. What we're talking about is we're talking a very wide win for Donald Trump. But the depth, it's not particularly deep. It's actually quite shallow, historically speaking.

Okay. Wide, but not deep. Shallow. His popular vote. What? His popular vote. What is not impressive? A win. Win. And that's what we're talking about here. Well, again, again, the blindness is the best part about this because he was not running against Kamala Harris. He was running against a massive, massive communications machine that the left has built up and taken over, over, over,

decades and that has silenced people. I mean, people have been afraid to say anything for fear that they will be thrown out of their jobs, for fear that they'll be thrown off social media. And the stuff that they've been afraid to say is all simple truth. You know, it's like, was the last election, if you say that the last election was a cheat in any way,

You can get kicked off social media for damaging the trust of the American people. Well, the last election, I don't know if it was stolen, but it was certainly rigged. I mean, there were so many lies, so much, you know, firepower, communication firepower trained on Trump. He did not beat Kamala Harris. He beat the whole deal. The fact that he...

Not any kind of popular majority is virtually a miracle. No one else could have done it. He did it. All the things that bother people like me about Donald Trump were weapons at his command. The fact that I'm a polite guy who doesn't like to see people talk the way Trump talks sometimes, that's what was required. That was, you know, come at the hour, come at the man. That was what God needed to call forth in order to...

this absolute machine that the left had built up for silencing dissent. You know, you only had to say, oh, these programs don't work to be called a racist, sexist, all the phobes. You know, I mean, if you only had to notice that a lot of terrorists happen to be young Muslim men and suddenly you were a bigot. It's just an amazing, amazing thing. The actual efficiency of it, I kind of respect it. You could come out

One day after Barack Obama said, you know, "Oh gay, marriage is between a man and a woman and God is in the mix." One day after the Supreme Court invents a right to gay marriage in the Constitution where it doesn't exist, the White House is turned rainbow colored and suddenly there is a Pride Month. Now, Megan, you and I are New Yorkers. We have absolutely no wish to bother other people in their personal lives. I know, you know, we've talked about this before.

But I don't need a month to celebrate my pride in homosexuality. No. I'm not sure it's worth even 10 minutes. You know, I think it's something that, of course, you know, it's a difference that we tolerate. But still, that the absolute bully machine that these guys were capable of putting into practice

into motion at a moment's notice is what is broken. And they don't realize it yet, but they will slowly. They're going to suddenly find out that they have become incredibly irrelevant. They've gone from being. Wait, wait. So that's the perfect segue into Joe and Mika, the perfect segue into those two losers. Yes. Irrelevance calls them right up, doesn't it?

Right, right. I mean, they're synonymous with it. So they went out on the air on Monday and said they had gone to Mar-a-Lago to bend the knee. I was saying to Paul Murray on Sky News that they didn't just bend the knee. They got down on their snake bellies and they slithered and they licked

Licked the boot. They licked it. Yes, it tastes so good. I love the bottom of your boot, sir. Please give it to me more. That's really what happened. Then they come back out on the air on Monday and say like, oh, you know, we spoke truth to power. Why wouldn't we speak to Hitler, the rapist, racist, bigoted, sexist, misogynist Hitler? That's just what we do as journalists.

And then they're already circling the bowl audience left in even greater numbers. So as of Tuesday, they had shaved another tens of thousands more off their already terrible numbers in the key demo of 25 to 54 year olds. They were down to 78,000 viewers on Tuesday, 78,000. That is just a what? 24.

5,000 or so above what we call in the business slashies. If you get 50 grand or under, they call them slashies. They don't give you the number. A slashie is unthinkable at Fox News. There is no show that ever gets a slashie. And MSNBC has been beyond the slashies now for a number of years. Hello, Joe and Mika, you're back to slashy land. So they

They came out the next day already experiencing the blowback because this meeting made no one happy and tried to tell us it wasn't as we felt, that actually everybody loved what they did. What they did was terrific and really well received. Here's a bit of it. Yesterday I saw for the first time what a massive disconnect there was between social media and the real world because-

We were flooded with phone calls from people all day, literally around the world. Very positive, very supportive, going, understand what you do, etc., etc., etc. But once in a while, I would get a text or a call from someone and go, oh, man, I hope you're doing okay. And I'd call them back and I'd go...

Well, Eddie Gladry's one of them. We go, Eddie, are you on Twitter? And he goes, I am. I go, okay, well, I'm not. So we've had a good day. All of us are going to do the best we can do, and we're all working towards a better America. Take it day by day. Day by day. And again, you can predict the future by shaping the future. Okay.

Twitter is not real life. You see, in real life, people loved that they went and met with President Trump. All 78000 of them. They loved it out of an audience that should be 600000. But those people really loved it. Andrew, don't believe your lying eyes.

And Comcast is ready to toss the entire station out the window. Can you blame them? Separating themselves. They're going to sell them. Yeah, I may buy them. I mean, I don't know. I'm not sure I can afford Rachel Mattos $30 million a year salary for bringing in those big numbers. Let me ask you something. If you actually did buy Comcast or MSNBC, because it's going to be spun off by Comcast, who would you fire first?

Well, if it's true that Rachel Maddow is making $30 million a year, I mean, I don't worry about her because she can always make a living as a Michael Knowles lookalike. But I think that it's insane to pay somebody that when nobody is watching her. For one hour of television a week.

I know. And Brian Stelter, you know, used to make the argument when nobody was watching him. Brian Stelter used to make the argument. Well, yeah, but they break out our bits and they go out on YouTube and all this stuff and people don't watch them there as well. And I suppose that was supposed to build up to a massive audience of people not watching them. But, you know, I think that they are useless. And the thing that they never get to Brian Stelter had this wonderful thread on X where he said, we need to fix, we need to win back.

our audience by doing things like podcasts. We don't do enough podcasts. And I was like, stop lying. You got to stop lying. That's the first, that's number one. You can do a podcast. Number five is do a podcast, but number one is stop lying. And they just don't get it. They really don't.

Yeah, that's right. You know, the funny thing is, is a lot of people who voted for Donald Trump didn't like Donald Trump, which is important. That's actually shows in his favor. That shows how bad they thought the other side was, how much they didn't believe them, how much they thought. I saw a Kamala Harris voter interviewed and she said, well, maybe Trump will do some good things like end all the wars and bring the economy back. And I thought, yeah, that would be good. That would

I'd be in favor of that. Was that voter Mika Brzezinski? Because that's how they're trying to sound. Like, yeah, you know, we're open-minded now to Hitler. Sure. Okay. And Biden looks ecstatic. So he's, at least somebody's really happy about the results in the Democrat party. Well, I do think it's very interesting that, that, that,

Comcast chose now to announce it's going to spin off its disgusting cable channel. And it's not because NBC News is doing so well and they just want to separate the struggling MS from NBC. NBC is also doing very poorly. We have beaten NBC News on its YouTube feed for months now, for months. We, just my show, just this one show has beaten all

all of NBC on their YouTube feed. They're in a lot of trouble over there, so they're not doing well either. So why spin off MSNBC? It's because it's the disgusting, like, wart-covered evil troll that, like, came to live with you and wouldn't leave. Like, they're looking at it like, ew, my God, what? We don't want our vaunted Today Show anchors to have to associate with those

troll ogres over there who, as I point out, are on their bellies licking the boot right now. Mr. President, please let me back in the circles of power. No wonder they want to spin this thing off.

Well, you know, we keep we keep we on the right. Keep I keep hearing people on the right say things like, well, there's problems on both sides. But the fact is, there actually aren't. You know, I mean, we haven't had enough cultural power to have the kind of problems they have. It's power that corrupts. And I'm sure if we had the kind of cultural power they have, there would be corrupt people on our side. But if you listen, if I listen to your show, I get a very factual, balanced view.

look at things, you know, you, you have a point of view, you have a, to the conservative side point of view, but you always give the facts on both sides. They never do that. They never do it. Our radicals, the radicals on the right are on the comment sections on section on Breitbart, where the radicals on the left are in Congress and in the White House. And I

I think it's a big, big difference. You know, power corrupts and they have become incredibly corrupt. And I still have a lot of Democrat friends. I hope that I can still count them as friends. And they just don't see it. They keep saying, well, you know, there are a lot of Nazis on X. I think some groiper in his mother's basement is posting on X and giggling away and all this stuff. But there are people pour out into their campuses celebrating Hamas, you know, and the slaughter of Jewish people.

It's not the same thing. It is not the same thing. And so the fact that they're

their news stations are dying. It's well-deserved. They earned it. They worked for that. That is not something, that is not something that they got overnight. It wasn't given to them. It wasn't handed to them. That failure has been earned by a constant stream of bias and corruption and dishonesty. And I think, you know, we have to congratulate them on a job well done. They have made themselves completely irrelevant. And also, I just love the fact, I mean, this is all about

The new media. It's all about the new media. It's the fact that we can now fact check them in real time. They can come out and say, oh, Trump is calling for a bloodbath. We can get that video out with the real deal with what he really said.

Almost instantaneously. And a lot of that, you know, is credit not, you know, it's credit to places like the Daily Wire and Joe Rogan and all that. But it's also to the credit of Elon Musk, who, after all, was a big hero to the left and then suddenly started getting investigated the minute he gave right wingers the right to speak.

But that's what's happened. What's happened is that the curtain has been drawn back. We see that it's all one party speaking to us. We see that they're not telling the truth. And people, you know, they kind of like reality. I mean, people people don't mind being lied to, but they hate the effects of being lied to. Like they want to be told they can fly, but they don't like it when they fall off a building. And that's that's what's happened up.

Just an amazing example, Megan, this idea that was hammered into us that we dopes didn't realize that the economy was great. Just because you can't afford a pat of butter doesn't mean that me and the media, I'm doing well. I'm doing well, so the economy is great. How do you tell people? Where do you get the temerity, the guts, the gall to tell people that the economy is great and that they don't know that they can't afford stuff, that they are somehow...

mystified. It's a delusion that they have that they can't afford to feed their families. It's an amazing arrogance, an amazing dishonesty, an amazing bias. And it has just been swept away. Donald Trump has swept it away. I'm ready to just whatever award they have for like political genius, I'm ready to give it to them. You know, I know you've had troubles with them in the past, but you know, we've all had troubles with them in the past at some level, but it is a work

As a brilliant friend of mine once said, the past is like your ass behind you. It's certainly true. And he just deserves all the congratulations in the world because this is a victory. As I say, it's not a victory over a single candidate. It is a victory over a system that has implanted and in place and just incredibly powerful. And he broke it.

Well, you may be elated and I may be elated, but the women of 4B are not elated. I know you are aware of this movement. I saw you discuss it on your show the other day. We touched on it, but I'd love to go a little deeper on the absolute implosion of like certain, I don't know what they are, radical feminists, like radicals.

I don't know. I'm not sure what they are. They're Trump haters. They're America haters because they're very, very angry with the 80 million people who voted Trump into office. And they appear to be self-haters because their response to him

is to say, take some pledge that apparently started in like Korea many years ago, or I don't remember all the tenants, but I know you don't date, you don't get married, you don't have sex and you don't have children. Like those are, there'll be no reproducing, you know, in response to which most of us are like, phew, when you get a look at these ladies. But is this just mental illness? Well, I'm going to show a little bit of these gals. We showed a little the other day. Here's a little bit more in SOP 13. Okay.

just woke up this morning feeling spicy giving up in america yeah also giving up on coloring this hair because right coloring my hair my hair be long and luxurious all that being skinny being hot being all the things that the patriarchy wants us to be and i'm talking to you i think you gave up on that long ago ladies who have the internalized misogyny required to do what you did minorities we're so scared of a woman in power

that you'd rather cozy up to the white man just in case some crumbs fall off his plate. Here we go. We're cutting it off because fuck you. That's why. You think I'm crazy? Me too. Crazy. I do. Yeah, I do. So,

So that's it. It's your internalized misogyny if you're a woman who voted for Trump. And if you're a minority, it's because you want to cozy up to the white man. So she has to shave off her hair and suddenly go from hot to not. Sister, I got assumes facts, not in evidence. No.

You know, you asked if this is mental illness. This is induced mental illness. They invented a system that was going to drive them mad. I kind of, I've been talking about this for years, actually, but think about this for a minute. If you come out and say, well, you know, I don't really agree with feminism. I certainly agree that women should have rights and all those rights and all the choices, but I think feminism is an anti-female movement.

Suddenly you're you're absolutely a pariah. You're a terrible, terrible human being. So unless you have a hard skin like me, you stop saying you stop talking. You stop expressing your opinion. You don't say, well, you know, I have questions about Islam because then you're an Islamophobic. You don't say, well, there's a lot of crime in black neighborhoods and maybe there's something wrong with the culture in some of those neighborhoods because then you're a racist.

You don't want any of that stuff to happen. You don't want to be called out to HR. You don't want to be uninvited to dinner parties. You don't want to lose whatever awards you've won or anything like that. So you're silent. So now this person on the left never hears a conflicting opinion, only hears opinions within the scope of her worldview. So she hears different opinions.

places on the left. Maybe she's not left enough. Maybe you're not, you're a little bit more to the left, whatever it is, but you're never hearing a right-wing opinion. So you never know that there are perfectly decent people who see the world entirely differently than you do.

Really nice people, people who you would like, people who would sit there and could explain to you why they think it might be more helpful to have this policy instead of that. Never hear it. Never comes anywhere into your into your worldview. And then suddenly you find out that half the country believes these things. And the only thing you can think to yourself is you're living in this horrible, horrible country where every other person hates you and wants to destroy you.

I don't know what patriarchy she's talking about. I've been looking for it for years because if I could find it, I would join it. But, you know, it's just this this absolute terror of all the people on the other side because you've never let them speak, you know.

I mean, we on the right, there was actually an article in one of the Yale newspapers about this where the left wingers were saying, yeah, you know, they were saying that, you know, gee, the right wingers have to deal with us, but we don't have to deal with them. So we don't know anything about them. Well, on the right, we've been saying that for years, that you don't have to explain the left to us. We live with it. And, and, you know, we know people who were. And the article was saying they were jealous that the Yalies were, were jealous of their conservative colleagues because they were developing skills that

that the ones on the left had never developed and did not have to develop. We're also having more fun and we're not terrified and we don't have, I mean, I shaved off my head, but that's my hair, but that's different. You don't have to shave off your head and stop dating people because you lost an election because you just have a much more three-dimensional view of the world than they have. I love this woman. I'm sorry to obsess, but like, I love this woman pretending that she's Giselle.

Like, I'm just going to do it. I'm not. Sister. It's kind of like when Ellen DeGeneres announced she's leaving the country. I was kind of like, you know, that's bye. I know. Oh, we used to laugh. I mean, there were some people at Fox who like when the Roger Ailes scandal broke. I won't be too mean, but it was like.

Let's just say, again, not exactly Giselle-like figures and not nice figures either, which is why I felt comfortable making fun of them. But they were like, it never happened to me. They're like...

Okay. Reality is reality. Reality is hard. Reality is hard. No question about it. Sorry. There were some dark moments there. Okay. So she's not taking it well. She and her other four B movement ladies. You mentioned Ellen DeGeneres. I thought that was actually quite interesting. And, yeah.

Now you have people wrestling with what, what does it mean? What do we need to do? How do we regroup? Like, how do we get back our voters? And the trans issue continues to be kicked around in the news every day. Not just because of the Nancy Macy, Nancy Mace thing, which by the way, we won, we won.

Speaker Johnson announced yesterday that men will not be allowed to use women's bathrooms, that you can use a gender neutral bathroom. I don't have to fulfill my offer to pay for the gender neutral bathroom on Capitol Hill. I offered 30 grand to build it yesterday because that's what I think it costs today.

Apparently they already exist. So like this, this man pretending to be a woman could just go use one of those, shut up and stay out of the women's rooms. But now it's a rule. So that's good because when the kids go on Capitol Hill for their field trips, um, they don't have to worry about running into men posing as women or trying to take photographs of them or whatever the hell else these men who want access to women's spaces want to do. So that's good. We won. So thank you to all of our viewers who I know called and wrote, uh,

Um, but the trans thing remains in the news and it's getting, Republicans are getting bolder.

And the left is holding on. They're not ready to let go of this, this little pearl that they've been pushing on us for so long. So Nancy Mace is the person, the person who brought this up on Capitol Hill as a Republican congresswoman from South Carolina. And she went on with news anchor from Scripps yesterday to talk about this. Have you seen this? And look, just listen to the arrogance of this news anchor in quotes, air quotes, news anchor. Watch.

I just wanna add that the Congresswoman elect does identify as a woman. I will be- She's not a woman, it's a man. She was born a man, she's a man. She is biologically a male, that is science. You guys on the left in the mainstream media wanna say follow the science. Let's follow the science, okay? He is a man. He can wear a dress, he can call himself, his pronouns can be she or her. But he doesn't belong in a women's restroom, period.

Are you suggesting that the representative-elect McBride poses some kind of danger to you and other women? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 100%. This is an assault on women. A man being a biological man, a man with a penis, male genitalia, being in a women's locker room is an assault on women.

that more than likely he's got a mental illness, and this is why he's doing this. He should not be forcing his private parts into women's private spaces. I'm absolutely a no hard pass on this. I'm going to fight it every step of the way. Are you diagnosing right now an incoming member of Congress with a mental illness? I'm not sure how you- I am absolutely diagnosing anyone who cross-dresses with a mental illness. Amazing. Now, just a word on this so-called news anchor. Her name is Liz Landers.

She is a national correspondent leading the disinformation desk at Scripps News. Andrew, you can't make it up where the team covers how disinformation spreads and shapes politics and people's lives. Hello, Liz. You're in the middle of doing it right now. Thank God you had a fact checker there in Nancy Mace. I just want to say one word about this.

Two words. One, are you suggesting that representative elect McBride, who for viewers who did not watch yesterday, is a man posing as a woman just elected to Congress from the state of Delaware, poses some kind of danger to you and other women in Congress? Okay. Because Mace had said he doesn't belong in a women's restroom. Liz.

we don't have to prove that he is dangerous. That is not the question. So F you for trying to reshape the debate in a way that you think is stronger for you.

First of all, yes, he is a danger. They're all danger. Even if he personally doesn't want to do anything to women in that restroom, his permission slip is a permission slip for all men. And many of those men do want to hurt us. So get up to speed, Liz. Do your homework, sweetheart. Secondly, we don't have to prove that our mere discomfort at allowing men into women's spaces is enough.

Stop trying to make the stakes so high that we have to prove to you this crime or that, which we could, but we don't need to. The answer's no. We don't want him, Liz. And if you want to pee next to a man, ask your male buddies at Scripps whether you can go into their bathroom. That's your solution. So that's one of the things that really irritated me in that whole exchange. Um,

But the thing is, Andrew, we won. So people like Liz are going to have to be brought to heel on this or their side will continue losing. You know, one of the the reason this is so important, the reason the transgender movement is so important is because it's emblematic of the power that the left has wielded. Thousands of years of human civilization, hundreds of thousands of years of homo sapiens,

This has never come up. The idea that a man can become a woman has never come up for the very good reason that it's impossible.

One angry lesbian college professor writes a book, which I have read, called Gender Trouble by Judith Butler. It's a grift. It's an absolute muddy-minded, poorly written grift that logic doesn't hold. It actually doesn't have a string of logic announcing that gender is simply a construct. You know, yep, hundreds of thousands of years of hominid life, but suddenly we find out that gender is just a construct. No other animal knows this. No other mammal realizes it.

this, but we know this because Judith Butler has told us. Instantaneously, if you disagree with this, you are a villain. Instantaneously. That was the power that the left was wielding. That was the power that their communication was wielding. To me, the most important video of this week was Mike Johnson coming out, being asked whether this new congressman slash congresswoman was

was a man or a woman. And Mike Johnson said, "Well, I'm not gonna answer that question. "I'm not gonna deal with that." Then he had to come back out later and say, "No, I am gonna deal with that." A man is a man, a woman is a woman, they can't change. Now, it's wrong to call Mike Johnson a coward. It's wrong to call him a hypocrite. He's a good guy. He's got a difficult job. Speaker of the House is probably one of the toughest jobs in government. He is no more a coward than any of us or anybody else.

That's the power they had that a man of his convictions could come out and have to hesitate a moment before he realized the game is over. The game is over because Donald Trump won. That's what's happened. That's the difference. He wouldn't have come back and made that second appearance that was the bold, right, true appearance, not because he's a bad guy, not because he's a coward. He's not. He wouldn't have done it because he wouldn't have seen that the construct had been destroyed. But it's in

rubble on the ground and they can keep on with this track forever. It's not going anywhere. Their machine is broken and I don't think it's coming back for a long, long time.

That's a really interesting point. Thank you for pointing that out. We played the Mike Johnson videos yesterday, both of them. And you're right. I mean, I was more focused on how he did get it right in the end, you know, but you're right. The fact that he hesitated does say something about how effective they've been on their bullying. And the fact that he came back out later is a testament to the victory that we all just won, not just Donald Trump. We all won on this particular issue. So the

The other thing I wanted to say about Liz, the disinformation anchor at Scripps, is she says, are you diagnosing an incoming member of Congress with a mental illness? I'm not sure how you would know that. Well, Liz, I have another piece of information for you since you're really into information and disinformation. Go to the DSM-5 website.

look up gender dysphoria and you will find it right there. It is a disorder in the DSM-5, which is about mental disorders. And in the medical community, mental illness and mental disorders are used interchangeably.

So yes, it's fine to say that the odds are this person who considers themselves quote trans has gender dysphoria, which is a disorder or mental illness spelled out in the DSM five. Look it up, sweetheart. You love information. I just gave you a bunch of it. There's your afternoon project. Okay. I'm not done with this issue because it's come up again. Um, whoopie Goldberg

known for her commitment to facts. Miss, I feel so bad for all the little children that Matt Gaetz allegedly molested who now will not be able to come forward. She's such a liar. Literally nobody alleged that. Okay. By the way, that legal disclaimer did not fix her defamation of Matt Gaetz. He should sue her. This is what she came out to say on, this is on the issue of trans athletes.

You know, I often wonder because it's when you look, transgender Americans, less than 1% of American adults identify as transgender. And when you add in youth who identify as transgender, that number comes to just about 1.4. It is estimated that.

that there are no more than 100 transgender athletes competing in public schools nationwide. And an Associated Press investigation found that lawmakers proposing bans on trans athletes in school sports could not cite a single instance of these athletes taking championships.

That is so wrong on so many levels. The U.N. just released a list of the number of medals that these men and boys have stolen from women, and it was almost 1,000 that they had calculated just recently. We here on the show have covered the number of medals that have been stolen. We did a deep dive on the Connecticut runners that we've been covering for years since we launched in 2020, Andrew, because I'm living in Connecticut, who have been denied medals and scholarships and so on and brought a lawsuit that's now succeeding.

But of course, they're not the only example. And the girls who have been hurt all over the country by these trans players and the girls at the NCAA level who are now forfeiting games and so on in order to protect their safety. It's like the amount of nonsense that is put out there. But before I get you to comment on that, if at all, I got to tell you, we got some breaking news here. Guess what just happened? Matt Gaetz withdrew. Oh, wow.

Wow. I know. I got to say, I, I can never, like, I have no personal affection for Matt Gates. I don't know him, but I'm kind of sad to see it. I'm kind of disappointed. I like the fact of sending in this, like you were saying, guns blazing. I get why he's problematic, but I'm disappointed. I'm going to read you a statement, but give me your first reaction.

Well, my first reaction is that I'm not surprised because even though Congress said they weren't going to release the ethics report, we all knew it was going to come out. There's no stopping that stuff from coming out. And, you know, I've heard even I have heard things about Matt Gaetz and the way he has lived. I don't think that means that all the charges against him are true. I

very much suspected. A lot of them are overblown and ridiculous. But, you know, you live at that level and you're going to do some things you probably shouldn't have done. But I feel the same way you do. I'm a little bit disappointed. I would have liked to see him just go in there and rip them to pieces. He's so great when he is challenging the left. He's so terrific when he actually goes after them. But, you know, you don't want the guy to be destroyed either. So I guess he's probably making the right decision. And Trump, I think that Trump...

was talking about this. He was repeatedly quoted as saying, I don't know if this is going to make it. So maybe he's just getting out of the way to let Trump do more. The fact that he resigned as quickly as he did, I know it was supposed to be so that he could be replaced quickly, but that might've been a giveaway that he was trying to get out of having that information released.

That report dropped and that report has not yet dropped the house, um, investigation into what, if anything he did with these underage girls or with prostitutes or I don't know, whatever, all of which he's denied, um, has not yet leaked. They definitely have. The house has it reportedly. The Senate does not have access to it because the house has refused. Speaker Mike Johnson has said, we're not releasing that, but of course someone's going to leak it. So, but it hasn't leaked yet. Anyway, here's what Matt wrote on an ex.

I had excellent meetings with senators yesterday. I appreciate their thoughtful feedback and the incredible support of so many. While the momentum was strong, it is clear that my confirmation was unfairly becoming a distraction to the critical work of the Trump-Vance transition. There's no time to waste on a needlessly protracted Washington scuffle. Thus, I will be withdrawing my name from consideration to serve as attorney general. Trump's DOJ must be in place and ready on day one.

I remain fully committed to see that Donald J. Trump is the most successful president in history. I will forever be honored that President Trump nominated me to lead the Department of Justice, and I'm certain he will save America. That's all we have for now. Does it mean he will resume and can he resume his role as a congressman from the Florida panhandle? I'm not sure. He resigned from the existing Congress. Does that mean he can he's been reelected? You know, so can he take his seat in the

upcoming Congress, which starts in January. Like he didn't technically resign from that. I'm not sure. Uh, we'll see. And if he's, if he's not going back to Congress, you got to bet dollars to donuts. Trump's going to give him some sort of a role that doesn't require Senate confirmation.

Yeah, it's a really interesting question. It depends how official his resignation is, whether he handed in a letter, whether it's just a discussion, you know, whether he can just walk back. I hope he I hope he doesn't disappear. But again, I was sort of suspicious when that happened, because as you say, that report is going to be released, whatever is in it is going to be released. And he must be nervous about it. Obviously, what he was talking about was he was going to Republican senators and they were saying, look, we just don't have the numbers yet.

And what is the what is the point of being ripped to pieces for two weeks and then losing the vote? You know, what's the point for him? What's the point for Trump? What's the point for anyone? Hopefully, you know, Trump to clean out the DOJ, which is now, as far as I'm concerned, you know, Merrick babyface Garland has completely corrupted that incredibly important institution. You know, to clean that out. I hope that I'm sort of hoping like Trump nominate something like, you know, an Abrams tank president.

or something, just goes in like a bulldozer. Just that we just going to confirm a bulldozer and just have to go in and shove everybody out the back of the building because it really is dirty in there.

I like that a lot. All right. Well, you know, all I can think of as I read this, though, I got to be honest, I read Maureen's Maureen Callahan, who I love her book. She's also a writer like you ask not. She released it over the summer and it was all about the Kennedy men over the years and just how terribly they've treated their women. You know, Ted Kennedy and Chappaquiddick and John F. Kennedy, you know, our former president beloved, you know, by most people, but especially the left. You read her book.

He was shipping the White House intern who was 16, 16 while Jackie was away taking her in the pool. Everybody knew they were having sex in the White House. Matt Gaetz is accused of not great behavior. He denies it, but he's

JFK was president. The Washington Post chose not to reveal any of this. Matt Gaetz is nominated for a far less important position, though an important one. And just these allegations have derailed him. Maybe not just these. He's also not well-liked, as you point out. But here's what CNN just dropped as he withdraws. The woman who says she had sex while a minor with then-Rep. Matt Gaetz told the House Ethics Committee...

that she had two sexual encounters with him at one party in 2017. Sources familiar with her testimony tell CNN, the woman who was 17 years old at the time testified that the second sexual encounter, which has not previously been reported, included another adult woman. The other woman who was an adult at the time has denied participating in the alleged second encounter, according to multiple sources familiar with her ethics testimony.

This is the same person whose claims were not enough to persuade the Merrick Garland controlled DOJ to bring charges against Matt Gaetz. And the Washington Post reported in 2022, the reason the charges would not be brought is because this woman was not credible. That's what the Washington Post reported.

Uh, it's fine to repeat these allegations. I haven't read the whole report. I really hope CNN says that because Matt Gates right now is getting killed by a thousand cuts, um, that people are running with this. It's turned into child molestation over on ABC news and now he's withdrawn and he's right. He has become a distraction, but I mean, I'm a little uncomfortable about where this has gone, Andrew, because it's Merrick Garland's DOJ who says she's not credible.

Yeah, I've actually never believed these charges for that very reason. That's one of the things that kind of bothers me about it. But I wonder, too, how much of this has to do with the way Matt Gaetz behaved during the replacement of the Speaker of the House. He was an agent of chaos. He was not a sort of

you know, go along to get along guy. He was not being collegial as people in Congress are supposed to be. And as you say, I do not think he is a man with many friends and that just counts for something in politics. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does. So I don't know how much of this has to do. I mean, obviously his life is not a,

a neat life. And it would be nice if we could find people with the kind of determination and grit that we need who are also faithful husbands, and that would be kind of pleasant and a change of pace. But

His life is a messy life. He doesn't have a lot of friends. And I think the numbers, obviously, from what he said about talking to the senators, the numbers just weren't there. And so what's the point? Right. Because he's going to he's going to be dragged through the mud. And if the numbers are not going to be there, some people are just saying there's just no way I'm coming over.

uh to your side you know what is the point of his going through this and yes he's going to be just absolutely excoriated by the left-wing press but again they excoriate everybody who disagrees with them so i don't know how much you know credibility they have left it seems to me none so it's just a question for me of the numbers and the fact that he couldn't obviously couldn't put together the numbers that he needed uh and whether more is going to come out or not

I don't know. Now it makes it less likely, I suppose, that there'll be a leak because who cares if he's not doing that? I hope I hope they take him back into Congress. I don't know. Again, he is alienating a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. It's got such a leaky body. Now the question will be, who's Trump going to choose? Right. Because this is a really important position. I've heard some people say Senator Mike Lee of Utah, that he.

he could get all the things done that Matt Gates could get done. You know, he's a fighter, he's a Trump loyalist, he's a MAGA guy. Um, what without all the controversy, you know, he should sail through in the, in the Senate, but that opens up a Senate seat and the Republicans can't necessarily spare it. I don't, I'm not sure exactly what would happen, um, or whether that might deter, uh, cause he's already chosen Marco Rubio. He's elevated him. Like

maybe somebody who's not currently serving. The margins are really tight amongst the existing lawmakers. And I don't know, I still wanted to go with my friend Mike Davis. There's no guy more loyal to Trump. He's on the show all the time. He formed a group called the Article 3 Project, which is all about enforcing America First policies. And he too is clerk for the Supreme Court. He's very, very smart. He says, I think he's too much of a shit stirrer to get confirmed. I think he thinks that, but like-

in relation to Matt Gaetz. Anyway, I think it's still a great day. I think it's actually a great day. And I'm sad for Matt Gaetz, but I believe this probably is what's best for the Trump administration, Andrew. So onward we go.

Yeah. And you have to remember that Trump has had a really, really hard time with AGs. Jeff Sessions kind of ducked when he came under that special investigation. And I've been a fan of Bill Barr's, but I know that Trump didn't like him and wasn't loyal enough. So, yeah, he's he's he's got to find somebody who's both, you know, a loyalist, but also somebody who can do a hard job of cleaning out the Aegean stables because it is like that in there. It is really a dirty place.

I thought Bill Barr was amazing. The only problem was he wouldn't support the election denialism stuff. And that's what led to the rift between them. But he totally had Trump's back. He was brilliant. He was tough on crime, all the good things. Anyway, that did not end well. Andrew Klavan, wait, are you sticking around? Okay, you are, right? Is Andrew sticking? Okay, sorry, I got confused about whether you had to go. Excellent, don't go anywhere. There is an epidemic affecting two out of every three Americans. Poor gut health.

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Given an amazing lifeline by the Illinois Supreme Court, which just reversed his conviction, not on the grounds that he did not perpetrate a fake race hoax on the city of Chicago and the nation. But on the ground that if you remember the original prosecutor in the case, Kim Fox, a woke DEI promoting George Soros prosecutor,

Didn't want to charge him and cut a plea deal with him, a non-prosecution agreement that let him off the hook for some community service and a handshake. And he signed it. And it was only in response to the outrage over that, that

Special prosecutor Dan Webb was brought in, former big muckety muck in Chicago, and he tried the case against Jussie Smollett. And Jussie's lawyers argued that this was a violation of his Fifth Amendment privileges, that it was basically illegal.

trying to try him twice after the government had sworn or agreed that it would not try him, that they had already cut a deal with him. And that ultimately proved persuasive to the Illinois Supreme Court, which ruled in a 5-0 ruling. There are seven justices, two abstained, five justices, I don't know why, but five justices ruled abstained.

They want a reversal. And now already you've got the far left crowd on Twitter going nuts about how everyone owes him an apology. And you mark, they're going to spin this into he's somehow been exonerated when really all the court said was you can't try him when he already admitted to it and struck a non-prosecution agreement with this loser DA, Kim Foxx.

Well, I am shocked to find that there is bad governance going on in Chicago. And I just I just I feel it's terrible that a man who committed a hate crime has been set free like this. This is a terrible thing. This is another guy. Are there any real hate crimes in America? I mean, I cannot remember the last time there was a high profile hate crime, except against Jews, of course. But I can't remember there was a lot of last the last time there was a high profile hate crime that didn't turn out to be a fraud.

So, you know, Jesse Smollett, I feel bad for the guy. I have to admit, when that show he was in, what was it called? Kingdom or something like that came out. Empire. Empire. That's what it was. I was absolutely stunned by the guy's talent. I remember sitting there going, wow, that guy can really sing. And apparently he just sang the wrong song and now his career is in shambles.

But what can we say? The guy is or is it? Is it? That's that's the real question. Maybe not. Maybe what will they do? Just for this. Or will he be? Will he be totally embraced by the left who will pretend that this was some sort of exoneration on the merits?

when that's not in fact at all what happened. Just reading now here from the Chicago Tribune reminding us of exactly how this went down. Weeks after indicting him, prosecutors dropped all counts against him, noting that he forfeited his $10,000 bond and had done community service. Cook County State's Attorney Kim Foxx previously handed the case to deputies saying she had recused herself and

And the court found here that we are aware this case has generated significant public interest and that many people were dissatisfied with the resolution of the original case and believed it to be unjust. Nevertheless, what would be more unjust than the resolution of any one criminal case would be a holding from this court that the state was not bound to honor agreements upon which people have detrimentally, uh, relied. Here's, here's what's nuts. This guy, I mean, I,

There will be discussions about whether he got this ruling because he's black and gay, whether this is some sort of privilege that

Right along those lines or whether like with the Andrew Clavin's of the world have gotten a ruling like this is the Illinois Supreme Court captured by this kind of thinking or was this a just legal ruling? I'm going to have to go back and look at it to answer that myself. But remember this and remember what a big deal this was. He came out and made up this fake story.

story that he'd been walking in the polar vortex. It was that time in Chicago where it was like 52 below or something crazy in Chicago. And that two guys, two white guys wearing MAGA hats came up out of nowhere and said something about like, F you, you gay, whatever. And just happened to be where it'd be, be holding a noose and bleach and

which they doused him with and put around his neck before beating him up and leaving. Oh, this is MAGA country. That's what they alleged. This is MAGA country. That's what it was. At 2 a.m. in Chicago, he was walking around randomly in Chicago with their noose and their bleach.

hoping to see Jussie Smollett while he went out to get a Subway sandwich. Anyway, then he went on with Robin Roberts because all the media was fawning all over him. Oh my God, this poor black gay man got attacked by the evil MAGA and she gave him the biggest pass we've seen up until we got to Kamala Harris entering the presidential race. Watch this.

Why do you think you were targeted? I can just assume. I mean, I come really, really hard against 45. I come really, really hard against his administration. And I don't hold my tongue.

I like the self-importance, though, the idea that people were actually paying attention to this guy who was maybe the fifth lead on that show to begin with and cared about what he thought about 45. But also, you know, it is amazing. It really is kind of interesting. He was attacked by two white guys who, by an absolute coincidence, just happened to be his trainers who were black and who were lost because they thought they were in Trump country in the middle of Chicago. So somehow they had lost their their GPS. But

It was immediately embraced and immediately pushed out there by the mainstream media. And no one ever pays a penalty. This is the part of the machine that is so fascinating. No one ever pays a penalty for getting these stories wrong. No one ever has to quit. No one ever has to apologize. No one ever has to go back and say, oh, wow, maybe we should have actually done some research since we're on a network with an amazing amount of investigative force. But all of that stuff disappears.

And it'll be very interesting to see what the rest of his career looks like, because you're right, of course, that the left is going to say, oh, wow, he's been exonerated when he hasn't been. But that's kind of what I'm talking about with Trump's election. They don't have the power they used to have. They don't have the power to erase what we've seen with our own eyes the way they used to be.

literally used to be able to say, we didn't exist. Hunter Biden laptop, it's not a thing. It's Russian disinformation. They have lost that power. They used it to the ultimate extent in the 2016 election. And now it's kind of in the 2020 election, I'm sorry. And now it's really played out and Trump has broken it and left it in pieces on the ground. So

I don't know what's going to happen to the guy. You know, I don't I don't really have a lot of animosity against him. I think it's he's an actor, you know, who's who's startled that he wants to be more important than he is and he or thinks he's more important than he is. I do. I do. Not only did he smear

all of MAGA, but he costs the city of Illinois tens of thousands of dollars as they investigated this nonsense. The, the black police chief in Chicago just crushed him. We're looking for the soundbite right now. Cause we had a cut back at the time, but was so angry at what this guy had done with Chicago PD. And we wanted to create a race war. I mean, it was so

irresponsible and just really tried to ignite a flame that could have caused this country to burn had he not been caught by these smart investigators. Ultimately, the two perpetrators of this alleged hate crime gave an interview to and did a reenactment for Fox Nation in like the best piece of tape ever.

ever. Here's here they are. They are black. They knew Jussie Smollett. They were not white MAGA hating guys. They just got convinced by Jussie Smollett to do this to him and watch.

So we waited here for about, what, four minutes? It was about four minutes. But it felt like forever. Because it was cold as balls. As we crossed the street, we said, hey, to get his attention. And that's when we started yelling the famous slurs he wanted us to yell. Hey, aren't you that empire? It's MAGA country. Oh.

He wanted it to look like he fought back. That was very important for him, because he said, hey, don't just beat my ass. Make it look like I'm fighting back and whatnot. So we did that, and then I threw him to the ground. And while after I threw him to the ground, I had

He had no bruise. I wanted it to look more real. So then I threw him to the ground. After I threw him to the ground, I used my knuckle and gave him a noogie. I finally put the rope around his face. I did not put it around his neck. I just placed it on his face, and that's when we took off. ♪♪

I love the racist noogie. That's nothing like that noogie to really take you out. You know, like this is the greatest thing to ever air on Fox Nation. But here is that we found that we found the soundbite from Eddie Johnson, the police chief at the time, who was definitely not laughing. Watch.

Jussie Smollett took advantage of the pain and anger of racism to promote his career. I'm left hanging my head and asking why? Why would anyone, especially an African American man, use the symbolism of a noose to make false accusations? How could someone look at the hatred and suffering associated with that symbol and see an opportunity to manipulate that symbol to further his own public profile?

How can an individual who's been embraced by the city of Chicago turn around and slap everyone in this city in the face by making these false claims? Pretty amazing. So that was 2019, Andrew. And here we are five years later. So what is the temperature of the country today versus back then?

for a black gay man who got caught perpetrating a race hoax for him in public life and returning to the public scene now that this conviction has been overturned. You know, to me, one of the great untold stories of this moment is

The COVID shutdowns and what it meant to the American people. No one's been fired. It was, in my opinion, the greatest failure of a leadership class since World War I. It was an absolute mess. Everything about it was wrong. And one of the things that was wrong was the encouragement and the cover up of the George Floyd riots. The idea that George Washington's statue should be taken down and replaced with George Floyd's. The idea that this guy was some kind of hero, this drug addict who I personally think

drugged himself to death, trying to hide fentanyl from the arresting officer. And that that crime was indicative of the way the police treat Black people. People have not covered what that means to people

even on a subconscious level, I think on a conscious level too, we know, we all know that we have been gaslit up the wazoo. We understand that for all of that time that that COVID lockdown was going on, we were gaslit about race relations. We were gaslit about the economy. We were gaslit about masks. We were gaslit about vaccines. We were gaslit about Anthony Fauci.

who really, you know, I mean, I don't want to send an old man to jail for the rest of his life as if he were a peaceful anti-abortion protester. But still, you know, he performed criminal acts and criminalized to Congress. And all of that stuff has vanished. It's just kind of sunk into the background. So now this guy comes back from that, those bad days, and he basically tried to

you know, push this narrative on us. That was a total lie. I just don't think the world is waiting for him with open arms. I could be wrong, but I think that this is a guy where people are going to look and say, we are so sick of this. You know, this is a country that has come so far in its race relations. Nobody denies the bad stuff in the past, but of course the world was more racist in the past than it is today. We're much more thrown together because of America, because of the way America welcomes people and lets them blend together. So fundamentally,

Things have changed here. And I think I just think people are sick of this kind of condemnation of everything about us. You know, I think that this is part of what the Trump election means. It's like enough, you know, enough. This is not a bad country. It's a great country. These are not bad people, but good people that when you go out into the middle of this country, black and white people are living together. They're marrying. They're adopting each other. It's absurd.

absurd to still be playing heat of the night on msnbc when you know kumbaya is playing throughout the rest of the country so when this guy comes back i just don't think there's a bunch of people waiting to say oh boy we just can't wait to have this guy back to tell us how bad we are now we can go hard against number 47 and we're gonna all care about this i think this is this is a dated story you know

I'm sure Trump's teeth are chattering. Yeah, I agree with you. I don't think there's a comeback for him, even in this Holly weird land, because I think on the heels of this election, especially, they've gotten the message they went too far and the American public is not having it. Andrew Klavan, love having you. Thanks so much for being here. Great talking to you, Megan. Good to see you.

All right, coming up next, we're going to be joined by Professor Jeffrey Sachs. Really looking forward to speaking with him, especially in light of the news this week on what we're doing in Ukraine. I mean, is there a real risk here that President Biden's starting World War III or risking it just before he hands the baton to President Trump? Jeffrey Sachs has thoughts. Don't miss that. What's the cause of many health problems in America today? It's simple. Shitty food.

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Donald Trump is the president-elect, but he does not take office for two more months. And the current administration appears to be doing everything it can to push its agenda through in the final months. Nowhere is that more obvious than in relation to Ukraine, where we just learned that Team Biden is looking to cancel over $4.5 billion in debt that Ukraine owes us, the American people. The move drawing sharp criticism from Republicans, including Senator Randall.

Rand Paul. And that's not all we learned about what our administration is doing this week. My next guest is an American economist who has a long history of speaking out on Russia and Ukraine and why this war must end. He and I were both speakers at the same conference back in September, the All In Summit with our pals from the All In podcast. Joining me now, Columbia University professor Jeffrey Sachs. Jeffrey, welcome to the show. Great to have you. Great to be with you. Thank you so much.

So, of course, the even bigger news, in addition to canceling billions of dollars in debt that they owe us, is the fact that the Biden administration authorized Ukraine to fire U.S.-made and supplied missiles deeper into Russia following months of lobbying from Ukraine, which has the Russians apoplectic, saying this could lead to World War III. Now, I don't—a lot of people want to just dismiss that as empty rhetoric, but—

I know you don't think we should. I agree with you. Explain. Well, this is an unbelievably irresponsible action of an unbelievably irresponsible and failed administration. This war could have ended years ago. It could have been prevented entirely had Biden just had some reason

a little measure of diplomacy to understand the Russian concerns. But this current decision that now U.S. missiles, attack missiles will be used and fired deep inside Russia in the waning days of a failed administration, it's just such a reckless disregard for our safety and for our lives. President Putin's been making the point

all along that, look, if you use these particular weapon systems, this is Americans that are doing the targeting, that are essentially launching these missiles against Russia. And it would be like Russia, maybe in submarines off the coast of the United States, firing missiles into the U.S. That would be an attack by

by Russia on the United States. And Putin says, if you do this, this is an attack by Ukraine. This is an attack by the United States on Russia. It's perfectly clear. It's perfectly sensible. It's perfectly stupid that Biden is doing this. But what makes it all the more obnoxious, frankly, is that the Pentagon and Biden said before the election they wouldn't do this.

explained that this would not have a consequential result on the direction of the war, but it could ratchet up the war and lead to an escalation that could end up being catastrophic.

So this very decision that was just made in the last few days was rejected. It was made exactly the opposite way a few weeks ago. But, you know, we don't even know whether the president is is is compass bent as we have no idea who's actually making these decisions. Is this Jake Sullivan? Is this since the Pentagon? Is this the CIA? Is this Biden? We don't even hear from the guy.

And these are momentous, irresponsible actions. I just, I can't really recall something like this before. I haven't trusted these people from the get-go because they have been failures on diplomacy all along. But to make a decision like this when it's the waning weeks of a failed administration that's lost the election and new government's coming in, it's shameful and it's dangerous.

You know, my mom graduated from high school in 1959. I graduated from high school in 1988. And for various reasons, I think her generation and my generation feared the Russians, right? That during my generation, it was the Cold War and even had these duck and cover drills in school. We were so worried about a nuclear standoff or conflict with Russia.

Today, people are out Christmas shopping. They're debating Trump's cabinet picks. They're getting ready for Thanksgiving. No one's treating this like we treated what arguably was a far less provocative situation in the Cold War. Like we're actually engaged in a hot war right now with Russia in Ukraine, but we're ignoring it and it's escalating.

You're exactly right. And by the way, we should be afraid. Russia has 6,000 nuclear warheads. And we should understand, Russia is afraid of us. We have 6,000 nuclear warheads. Both sides have 1,600 actively deployed nuclear warheads aiming at each other.

They're afraid of us. And, you know, this has been... And they're afraid of us not in some irrational, crazy sense, in the sense that they actually don't want nuclear war and they don't want the United States military and its missiles really on their border. And that's what people really need to understand about why this war is taking place in the first place. What this whole thing in Ukraine has been about is that...

Our deep state got it in its head at the end of the Soviet Union back in December 1991 that we rule the roost. We can do what we want. We can go anywhere we want. We can decide where our missile systems are. We can leave any treaty we want. We can put NATO military bases anywhere we want. And that Russia couldn't do anything about it. It's literally that attitude, that that

arrogance or that hubris. And so we started this NATO enlargement towards Russia and the Russians kept saying, don't do this, don't do this, don't come any closer.

And we don't worry, it's our choice. We can go where we want. And Clinton started the NATO expansion against the advice of top diplomats and experts, military experts and so forth. Maybe he wanted the vote of the Polish Americans in Illinois or Michigan. That's so irresponsible. But the first wave of NATO enlargement was to Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic. That was 1999. Then in 2004, George W. Bush Jr.,

another seven countries, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovenia and Slovakia, you know, just moving eastward. And the Russians said, stop, OK, stop. And then Bush and Cheney and and Victoria Nuland, now my colleague at Columbia University, the the ultra neocon, you

They said, no, no, we're going to go all the way to Ukraine and to Georgia, right up against Russia's 2,100 kilometer border with Ukraine. And the Russians said, do not do that.

do not come to our border. Like we once said to the Soviet Union, do not put military bases and nuclear weapons in Cuba. But the United States said, we don't have to care. We can do whatever we want.

And that went through to promising that NATO would enlarge to Ukraine and to Georgia. Then the United States helped to overthrow Ukrainian government in February 2014 that wanted neutrality because President Yanukovych knows.

We lived through that. We covered that on Fox News. Just, yeah, spend a minute on- Why doesn't it get more attention? Why doesn't it get more attention? Because the New York Times and MSNBC and the mainstream media refuse to talk about any history. And Megan, I know about it in the most absurd way because I could not get 700 words, even online, I didn't demand print, just online in the New York Times

to respond to the fact that they said that the war that Putin launched against Ukraine was, quote, unprovoked. And they used that word 26 times, my assistant counted in their op-ed columns during the first year after February 2022.

And the whole thing was provoked. And I happened to see it because I've been involved in that region for more than 30 years. And the New York Times would not tell the truth. They would not inform their readers, even with one online piece. You know, they could smother it. So they're not going to talk about the fact that we orchestrated a coup in Ukraine in 2014 with Hillary Clinton?

They don't talk about any such stuff that we do. You think they were interested in who blew up Nord Stream? Do you think they were interested in who made the coup? Do you think they were interested in where the COVID virus came from? You know, a thousand things that are really messed up.

They don't cover at all because they're kind of whatever the deep state tells us, whatever our official sources tell us, whatever our unnamed official sources tell us, that's what we're going with. And so they don't cover this stuff. They don't discuss any background, but they do carry a narrative. And the narrative is Putin is a madman and a madman and wants to recreate the Russian empire. Except, except.

don't worry, he'll never do anything with nuclear weapons. I mean, it's all completely inconsistent and incoherent. And if one understood the Russian side of this story, not only the NATO enlargement that I just recounted,

But the fact that the United States, the US unilaterally walked out of the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in 2002 and the Russians said, "What are you doing? We have a nuclear arms control framework for stability." And the US said, "Nah, we do what we want." The United States walked out of the Intermediate Nuclear Force Treaty in 2019.

We do what we want. The United States stationed Aegis anti-ballistic missiles in Poland and Romania, nearby Russia, and the Russians saying, don't do that. The United States says, we do what we want. And then Putin asked Biden, we have reports, well, are you going to station

missiles in Ukraine and the report is that Blinken told the Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov in January 2022 we do what we want it's none of your business and then we're surprised that there's war

And then we violate our own limits and we reverse our policies within days and we have no deliberation in the United States at all. It's not just people going to the malls. Is there a senator or a congressman that's paying attention to this, frankly? It's just unbelievable what is happening. It definitely seems like the Trump administration is aware. We know J.D. Vance is paying attention to this, but they've got two months before. He's gotten this completely.

He understands this completely. And President Trump has been very clear about this also. I interviewed Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin, in Moscow, in St. Petersburg at his economic conference. And then again, and the third time where we really sat down and went head to head on a bunch of things was in Kaliningrad, which is where they keep their nukes.

And it was a really humbling experience to be in a place that with the press of a button could launch the annihilation of the world. And you really feel it in a very acute way. And especially when you're across from the man who could do it, who, you know, unlike Kim Jong-un, where Trump's like, I've got a bigger button in my works. Putin's button works, too.

And if people keep saying like, he's evil, he's evil, he's evil. And I understand what's happened in Ukraine and war is very ugly, but I've been saying to people, you know,

it's more complicated than evil. Like he's strategic. He's making decisions that he thinks are in the best interest of mother Russia. And we just dismiss him as this evil Cretan at our own peril. Like we need to understand the greater situation that God is here. And more importantly, that will get us out of here. And I think he is a rational actor. Like I think Trump is right that he probably could get this thing resolved in a day or

And how would he do that? How would he go about doing that? Megan, not only is he rational, he's extremely intelligent. And not only is this not some crazy act, it is understandable from Russia's point of view. And it is irresponsible from the American side that we have pushed and pushed and pushed because of an arrogance movement.

that came in the United States, strategic leadership,

at the end of the Soviet period, when they decided, when people like Wolfowitz and Cheney decided we can do anything we want, we can have any wars we want, as literally Wolfowitz had told General Wesley Clark, Russia can't respond. We can do what we want. It is that arrogance that has been the biggest problem of all for us because it has gotten the United States into

less and less security like we are in right now. Now, this war could have been avoided entirely at multiple points. I won't go through every bit of the history, but I will tell you that at the end of 2021,

President Putin put a draft security agreement on the table online also, not just on the table so we could all read it. A U.S.-Russia draft security agreement. You could still find it online. And the essence of it was stop the NATO enlargement. I called the White House at that point. I talked to Jake Sullivan. I said, avoid this war.

Negotiate. This is good diplomacy. He said, no, no, we have an open door policy. I said, that's ridiculous. There is no such thing as an open door policy that the United States gets to station its military bases anywhere it wants and expect others not to have a say in it, especially when it's Russia and their say about the United States military on their border.

And he dismissed all of that. So that war totally could have been avoided. Then in March 2022, I think people are not aware that Russia and Ukraine actually agreed on a peace arrangement based on Ukrainian neutrality. And the United States nixed it. The U.S. told them, fight on. No neutrality. We got your back.

And as I often say, yeah, we have their back, but not their front because they're being killed from the front. 600,000 Ukrainians dead since the U.S. nixed this little thing and Ukraine losing land in the process. Every day it gets worse. But in our arrogance, we haven't stopped it. This is Biden's colossal failure. So could Trump end this in a day? Yes. And the way to do it

would be to go to the core of what this is about. This is about NATO enlargement. This is about Russian national security. And to say properly and rightly, Mr. President Putin, you stop the war and we end this wrongheaded idea of NATO enlargement to your border. You view that as reckless. This was a bad idea. We need to keep a space between us. We are the two.

most powerful nuclear superpowers in the world. We need a little bit of buffer in between. Ukraine will be neutral. It will be secure. You stop fighting. We stop trying to draw it into our military orbit.

This is how the war ends. What happens with the territory that Russia's already taken in Ukraine? Russia's going to keep a lot of that, that it's taken, because that's ethnically Russian. And when Russia proposed, and again, you need to know the history of this, I mean, you know, but people need to understand the history of this. Russia didn't make territorial demands.

before this latest round starting in February 2022. What Russia had asked for, rightly, was give autonomy to the Russian speakers of eastern Ukraine. And that was put into a treaty backed by the UN Security Council, unanimously, called the Minsk II Agreement.

And what did the US do? It whispered to the Ukrainians, "Ah, you don't have to do that stuff. That's all right. Just ignore the treaty." And so what would have been territorial integrity

of Ukraine was squandered again by the West because we're very cynical and very arrogant. And so we think we can just get our way. And it is. Let me let me follow up with you on that. Is it hubris? Is it hubris on our part or is it like a desire for war or both? I don't think it's a desire for war. I think it's being an

absolutely arrogant, awful poker player. Because the United States kept saying, if we do what we want, Russia has no alternative. You can actually go back in a fascinating, completely wrong account given by Zbigniew Brzezinski, remember the foreign policy guru who wrote a book in 1997 called The Global Chessboard.

And he talked about NATO enlargement. And he has a chapter in it, which I went back to recently read because it's kind of the blueprint of what we did. And he reasons that we can do what we want because Russia has no recourse. And he predicts, he says, well, Russia will never side with China.

Russia will never form an alliance with Iran. Wrong, wrong. So much is wrong. And he concludes by saying Russia has no option but to just go along with an expanding Europe and an expanding NATO. So he called it wrong. But that is how the U.S. acted. They were playing poker, excuse me, with a lousy hand. And they didn't understand what was really going on. They thought

Putin's not going to start a war over this. They thought, well, if he does, our sanctions are going to kill the Russian economy. I know that because I spoke to the U.S. officials about that as it was happening. And Biden said it. It doesn't work. Biden was like, just watch, just watch. Come back and let's check back in in six months or 12 months, whatever he said. And Russia was fine. They had found other partners. A

Exactly. And it was not hard to predict because these sanctions are always overblown. They can do damage, but they're terribly overblown. Then it was going to be our our miracle weapon systems, our HIMARS and our ATAKMS and all the rest that we're going to do it. In other words, they kept saying, we'll win, they'll lose as this keeps escalating. You know, Obama did a lot wrong on this because it was during Obama

that this coup against the Ukrainian neutralist government was launched with the US on February 22nd, 2014. So Obama has a lot to answer for on this, but he did realize one thing after that happened.

He said, you know, we can't get into a war with Russia on this because they have what Obama called escalatory dominance. If we raise the stakes, they'll raise it further. Because for us, going NATO enlargement, that's kind of a game. And it is a game from the point of view of Jake Sullivan or others. But from the point of view of Russia, it's existential.

So Obama knew, well, they'll just keep escalating. I don't want to get into that. Biden is just so bad at this. And his team, Blinken and Sullivan, the whole team has been terrible. But the whole point is they played it like a game. Whereas for Russia, this is first order national security. This is the most basic stuff. And this is why we need to take absolutely seriously the change of the nuclear doctrine.

The fact that from Russia's point of view, they now regard the United States as actively attacking Russia with our missiles. And it's an accurate assessment, by the way. And I'm just hoping and counting on President Putin as a very rational and steely character, no doubt, tough minded and very rational person.

to hold without blowing things up so that President Trump can come into office and they can discuss things rationally, which has not happened. But it's almost what we don't want is to have Joe Biden depending on Putin's forbearance, knowing that Trump is coming in. You know, there's only so far he can be pushed. I agree. I'm

So dismayed and shocked by what's happened in the last couple of days because when the Pentagon said before November 5th, we're not going to do this, they explained why.

This is dangerous. It's provocative. It will not change the course of the conventional war, but it could lead to nuclear escalation. They explained all of it. They actually sent the British prime minister packing because the British are exceptionally irresponsible in all of this.

as a 19th century imperial power. They have their delusions of grandeur still, and they want the United States to do the dirty work. So Starmer came over to the White House, you'll recall, and tried to talk Biden into this, and the Pentagon said, no, this makes no sense. Now, what also is very disturbing about all of this from my point of view is that such a momentous decision was made

without any explanation to the public by President Biden. I don't know whether he can give an explanation anymore. I don't know who really makes these decisions anymore, but it's not acceptable with our lives in the balance

And with the administration on its way out in a few weeks to be making decisions like this and then. Right. Period. But then not even accounting for them or explaining them. That's right. And we see him. What do we see? We see him stumbling on the beach in Delaware, missing the photo ops at the G20. Like there's no reason to believe he's in control and.

and in command. And we just pray for the next two months. Let's do a brighter note because I haven't heard you talk about, because I said this to my audience, when I went over to Russia those couple of times, I was floored by how loving the Russian people were toward America.

They love to hear that I was a U S citizen. They love to talk about America. They had no animosity toward us at all. You know, our world leaders get us into these conflicts and have these, you know, as we've just discussed, they, they're not thinking the way the citizenry is, but what could it, what could the relationship look like in the next phase? You know, when Trump gets in there and JD is in there too, in his ear, um, what could things look like after we wrap this thing up, which I, I do think it will be wrapped up pretty quickly.

Let me just tell you that in December 1991, I was in the Kremlin because I was an advisor to President Boris Yeltsin.

on his economic crisis that they were facing. And I sat in the room in the Kremlin and Boris Yeltsin came from the far side of a very, very big room out into the room from a back door in the background, walked up to the table and said, gentlemen, shots for everyone. I was I was I was chairing a delegation and he said, gentlemen,

I would like to tell you the Soviet Union is over. He said, I've just been meeting with the heads of the Soviet military, pointed to the door in the back and said they have agreed to the end of the Soviet Union. And then he went on.

to talk about how Russia would be a normal country, friendly with the United States, friendly with Europe, a normal market economy, a normal democratic country, how it wanted normalcy and good relations.

And I spoke then and said, Mr. President, I am sure that this is how the United States sees it, too. I am sure the United States is going to give you a hand in this deep economic crisis that the Soviet Union fell into to help you find your way out of this in a perfectly fine manner. Well, I was wrong. The United States neocons did not want

peace. They wanted dominance. They wanted what is called hegemony. They wanted to be able to move NATO where they want. They wanted to be able to put American missiles where they want. They wanted to leave whatever treaties they wanted. They behaved very, very badly. Could we have normal cooperative relations with Russia? Of course we could. That's what they wanted. I saw it with my own eyes. I heard it with my own ears. I was there.

I saw it with President Kuchma of Ukraine. I was an advisor to the Ukrainian government also. We had the chance really for peace, but the neocons didn't want peace. They wanted hegemony. They wanted U.S. dominance. It was arrogance. And they played things so badly for so many years, for more than 30 years now, to get us to this absolutely powerless state that was unimaginable.

in 1991. Unimaginable that we'd be talking about whether there would be a nuclear war between the two countries. So could Trump and Vance pull this back to normalcy? Of course they could. And by the way, I have to say the same with China because everyone says, oh, China, we have to hate China. China is our biggest threat. We have to be nice to Russia so we can hate China. This too is completely mistaken.

We don't need to hate either of these countries. They both want peace and cooperation and economic development. That's what they want. Russia is a more persuasive case to me. China, there's just been too much negative news about what they're doing. I know, but you know... Just recently, the secret police in New York are threatening Chinese speakers there. I mean, the buying of the land... We're sending billions...

of armaments to Taiwan that we in our diplomacy recognize as part of China. And if China starts sending billions of dollars of armaments to one of the US states, you'll know that we have a problem.

I have been going to China for, I've been going to- Now having looked into the Taiwan situation, the smartest people I've talked to say we should not get involved in that. Absolutely. But that's the biggest- Taiwan's already part of China and we shouldn't get involved over there and no one wants to see American boots on the ground in Taiwan and we should stop being so provocative with respect to Taiwan. Bravo. That's the main point of irritants with China.

The other point of irritants is the South China Sea, because we have a doctrine that we have choke points on China's sea lanes. If we would just calm down, we would find that there are plenty of grounds for cooperation.

And that's the point. We need to calm down. We need to stop being in the other guy's face, especially the face of another superpower. We need to stop saying we can do whatever we want. We can send our armaments to Taiwan. We can strike with our missiles inside Russia. We have to get over that mentality. And then we're going to find that there's actually the basis for cooperation.

Now, I've heard you go so far as to say similar things about Iran. Now, that's going to make people's heads explode because. Well, let me let me do it. Let me let me do it. They're trying to assassinate Donald Trump right now. Like there's no world in which we can have. First, first, they're not. And second, we have been assassinating their leaders for years, by the way. This is not even this is bragged about by the United States.

I happened to be in New York when the president of Iran came to visit and I listened to him speak. He's a heart surgeon and he talked about as a doctor, he saves the life of anybody, whether he likes the person on the operating table or not. He spoke about peace the whole time. How was it reported in our media? War, war, war.

The media, the deep state plays a lot of games with us, Megan. They want to stir up war. They want to stir up military contracts. They want to stir up the U.S. ability to do whatever it wants. I'm not buying it because I see it with my own eyes.

Well, we've got to continue this discussion in more depth. Anytime. Because I would love to get into Iran and China more. But I think you're making a lot of sense on Ukraine. There's just too much blood and treasure lost already. They've lost the war. We have to acknowledge that, cut the losses, and try to move forward in a constructive way, especially for our people, for Americans. Exactly right. Jeffrey, it's a pleasure. Thank you so much for being on. Great to be with you. Thanks so much. Jeffrey Sachs, everybody.

Thank you. And we are back tomorrow with VDH, the one and only. And also, guess who else is coming back on? The ladies from the Red Scare podcast. Speaking of Red Scares, they're going to be here from the Red Scare podcast. We'll see you then. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear. There are some football feelings you can only get with BetMGM Sportsbook. That's right. Not just the highs, the ohs, or the no, no, nos. No!

It's the feeling that comes with being taken care of every down of the football season. The feeling that comes with getting MGM rewards benefits or earning bonus bets. So, whether you're drawing up a same-game parlay in your playbook or betting the over on your favorite team...

The BetMGM app is the best place to bet on football. You only get that feeling at BetMGM. The sportsbook born in Vegas, now live across the DMV. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. See BetMGM.com for terms. 21 plus only, DC only, subject to eligibility requirements. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER.