Fulfillment and Achievement: A Deep Dive of "Atlas Shrugged" with Josh Forti (3 of 5)
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What's up, everybody? This is Russell. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. We are coming back right now with part three of our Atlas Shrugged series. Again, this is from an interview with me and Josh Forty back in 2020. After the very first time I read Atlas Shrugged,

This was a fascinating five or six hour long interview. Hopefully you had a chance to listen to hour number one, which we posted two weeks ago, and then hour number two last week, and now we are on hour number three this week. I hope you guys are enjoying this interview, and it's getting you guys excited about all the things related to you as a prime mover, as a producer, and someone who's trying to change the world. So with that said, I'm going to jump into part three of the episode on Alice Shrugged.

Okay, I want to circle back to one quick thing and then we can move on to it.

So the question I was trying to ask was, like when you were like, hey, there's the technician or there's the plumber, there's this or that, or then there's the person that comes in and makes it rain, right? Like, there's only a few people in an organization like make it rain, right? Like you in ClickFunnels, you make it rain. Like you're the one that like brings it in. And I'm sure there's other people like to a certain extent, but like you are that person. And there's probably what? You probably have what? 100, 200 people on the support team?

that don't actually make the company any money, but they do play a critical role in the sense of like the company couldn't function without them. Right. And so like to those people there,

how does somebody who like two part question one can you live your best life in a position like that like could you be most alive and fulfilled and like like live a great life doing something average like that and number two like does that person need to go learn how to make it rain like does everybody need to be an entrepreneur does everybody need to be like you are so fast and you got this whole community of funnel hackers and like we're gonna go out and change the world and like we don't get we think differently we do it differently with all this stuff like does

Would it be good if the whole world thought that way? Or like, do we need people that don't think that way? There's a time in life where I thought everyone should think that way. I don't think so now. I think some people like, I have family members who,

love what they do and they're obsessed with the art. Like the art is what they do. Like some people, like some, like I've had good masseuses and bad masseuses. Some masseuses, like that is their art. You can tell you're just like, Oh my gosh, like they're the best at their, their craft. And I think that's okay. I think if it brings fulfillment, like that's more important. But if people aren't fulfilled, that's, that's the second question is like, well, if you're not fulfilled, then why? Like, you know, and I think one of the most powerful things, Myron Golden taught this at Funnel Hacking Live and he taught it a couple of times and

He has this thing called the four levels of value. And it's so fascinating because- That's such a good- Yeah, so the first level of value, for those who haven't heard this before, is, and it talks about, and I'm going to not do it justice, like Myron's a man. One of the greatest speakers of all time. Go YouTube. Actually, I don't even know if it's on YouTube. Anyway, yes.

But so bottom level is, is people work with their hands. Right. And this is the hardest work. Like someone building, building persons, like actually building the building or typing, you're doing support or like whatever the thing is like they're working with their hands. Like that's the lowest level value. Right. Like the most you make when you're, when you work the hands is maybe 50, 60, $70,000. You're like, but you're tapped out. You can't get higher than that. Now,

Excuse me, if that's your calling and you're good at it and you love it, like go all in. Like become the best in the world at that thing and that's totally cool. But you're not – but like you cap out on salary. You can't make more money at a certain point because that's the value of that tier value. The next tier value then if you move up one tier is management, right? Someone who can manage all of the workers, right? And there's people who – like one of the big mistakes we made inside of ClickFunnels, we took the people inside of our team who are the best workers and we upgraded them out into management.

And they were horrible managers, amazing workers, moving to the management, the management, but they weren't managers like this different mindset. And so it's like, they can go learn that. But I thought where they were, that's not where they were gifted. Right. And a lot of times it was irreparable. We couldn't move them back down because in their mind, like, well, I'm a manager now. It's like, no, I think, you know, one of the things we learned is like someone can work that I'd be a worker and make more money than the manager. Right. Because,

Just because sometimes their skill set, like programmers and developers, like getting an amazing programmer to code something is a lot of times worth more than the managers managing that person. But in most businesses, most organizations manage this next year, right? Because you make more money as a manager because you're managing a lot of, excuse me, a lot of workers as opposed to one.

Then you go up to next tier value, and it's like the communicators, right? People learn how to talk and to sell. Like, that's the next thing. You make more selling than you do managing. And you typically make more managing than you do actually doing the thing. And not everyone's going to be great salespeople. Like, I think it's a teachable skill. I think you may have seen my early videos. Like –

This is a gift that I was born with. It is not. It's something that's been developed. Guys, you should go look at Russell's old videos. They are so amazing. They are the worst ever. Yeah. When I was your age, I was not, I would not have been able to do this. Like it's, it's crazy. Um, and so that's here is, is communicators in the top tier are the visionaries. Like imagining that you're using your brain to make money. So you're using your brain, your mouth, your management skills, or your hands. Like those are the four tiers of value. And so I think wherever you fit in there, it's like, that's cool. Like we need people, all the tiers, but like,

I did a podcast about this the other day. I'm like, if you're going to be, whatever you're going to be at, like, don't just be a person doing it. Become the best in the world. Like we were in, I spoke at Tony's event and we're in a hotel and it was kind of weird because there's a spa, so we're all excited to get massages, but it's also COVID right now. So like, masseuses have masks on, they have plastic gloves. It was like,

It was weird. And I got my very first massage. We sent, they, they paid for some massage, but two massages. So I was like, it'd be fun. First massage was so bad. I was like, I never want to get massaged again ever. Like it was just, it was so bad. And I'm sitting there on the table. It was only an hour long massage. By the time it was done, I was like, I want to get out of here. Like, this is just,

weird and horrible. I did not enjoy it. And I'm a massage person. Yeah. I love massage. Yeah. And I was like, I'd never want to massage again, but they'd already booked us for the next day for the second one. And I was annoyed. I went to the second one and same thing. She's got plastic gloves on that we have to do with the mask. And it's kind of like, Oh, I don't even want to be here. And then she puts your hands on me. And it's just like,

It was art. Like it was different. And I was like, both of them are doing the same job. Right. But somebody is like, I want to be the best in the world versus like, Oh, I'm just doing the thing. And you see that in every, every area of life. You look at the chiropractors, there's chiropractors, the good, and there's ones that are great doctors, like dentist business. Like, like I'm, I'm more of like wherever you're at, like, like don't just be mediocre. Like become the best in the world there. That's more important to me than, you know, if you're gonna be a plumber, be the plumber who you walk in. Like we've had,

our house so many plumbers coming we had some to come and they fixed the leak and then some of those breaks and they go and other guys come in and they check everything making sure it's perfect it's like i would rather like i want that person with the artist i want the person like this is their art not just like best job i could find like yeah anyway all right so now i'm about to ask you a question and i understand this is totally like your opinion on it there's you know nothing maybe maybe you have something to base it on so like the person that is

At those lower levels of value, right? The average worker that's out there that's doing their thing, especially in today's super soft victim mentality, America that wants to vote for free stuff makes me so mad. Anyway, so like the average person like that's out there looks up at people that make a lot of money and like kind of the general consensus, I think, or the way that

America slash the world is going is like rich people are bad, right? Like, like you're, you're so greedy, man. Like you got all this money and like, you're not giving any to me. And like, you get to go sit in your massive house and your cars and you can do whatever you want. And so like, even if they are doing what they are called to do, like they'll look up at to a millionaire, a billionaire, like someone that has like all this stuff and they'll,

Like they'll look at it as bad. Like that shouldn't happen. Like, how do you create a society? And this is why, like, I know it's a big picture, like type stuff, but like, how do you create a society that allows people to like, be okay with being the best version of themselves, like where they're at without like looking at you and being like, you're bad. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, it's not going to happen in our lifetime. It's not going to happen. My belief till Christ comes again. And we, when he does, it'll be a perfect,

you know, things would be great, but until then it's not gonna happen because humans are humans. Right. Um, you mean, you mean Donald Trump's not going to just fix everything. Oh, if he does, that'd be amazing. I'm not holding my breath. Um, but I would say more so just for anyone who feels that way. Like I would look at that more. And I did a podcast about this. Like, um,

If you're not someone who celebrates other people's successes, everybody, I don't care if you hate the person, if you're a big fan or you're not a big fan, like if you don't celebrate their success, then you are going to struggle to ever be successful because you're going to be so scared of other people not celebrating your success. I remember I'm not, I am not a huge Gary Vee fan. You know this. Yeah. For reasons I'll talk about in my next book. But when I, when I tweet this out on Twitter, Gary, when you're following me, shout out.

By the way, the Patriots won the Super Bowl in the Jets. Just throw that out there. All right, continue. I just guaranteed you'd never come on my podcast. I do like Gary. I just – we had – but whatever. He doesn't remember it, I'm sure.

But anyway, he got the shoe deal with whatever. Adidas. Yeah, Adidas. And he's in our market. And for a half a second, I was like, ah, that sucks. And then I was like, he's in our industry and he got a shoe deal. And I ran to my computer. The case was I bought the shoes. I got them. I did a podcast celebrating the fact that some in our community got a shoe deal and all these things. And a bunch of people that I know, I thought you're not a big Gary fan. I'm like, I'm not, but that's a huge success. We should celebrate success.

Because if you don't, then what's going to automatically happen in your head, if you're not celebrating people's successes, you have the subconscious fear that someone's not going to do yours. And so you're going to stifle yourself from being successful. So I try when anybody around me is having success, whether I like them or I don't like them, like I always am like, oh my gosh, I'm going to try to celebrate it. And then by doing that, like it changes your brain to the spot where you're okay having success because you're assuming everyone's going to celebrate like you and they're not going to.

But it's different. Subconsciously, you are not celebrating other people's successes. It'll stifle you from ever having your own. And so I think that's a big part of it. Like if that's where you're at right now, like it's something you got to change. And we start making that little shift and start celebrating people's successes above you. It's freeing. It's amazing. Because then it's also like unlocking yourself. Like I can succeed.

Because they did, and people are going to celebrate me. And, like, it shifts those, like, psychological things that you do, and it changed everything. It's weird. Do you think you're not political? Like, hardly at all. Like, do you even pay attention? No.

No, not too much. Like it. I was like, I was like, Hey, so those who read the book, Hank Reardon, he like, and this is part of his demise. He never, he doesn't pay attention to at all. So as I read the book, I'm like, Hey, Greer doesn't pay attention. I don't pay attention. Like, like, um, and real quick, we do shout out for these shirts again. Um, by the way, how many guys would like one of these shirts? Let's make them comment for this first. Okay. Guys, how many of you want to share? Yes or no comment. Yes or no down below. So this is the rear and still one. And this is the, who is John Gall one.

Pretty dope. I'm not going to lie, though. That one's pretty dope, but this one wins for one reason. The quote is cool. We could put that quote on this one, too, and make it silver. Ooh, ooh. Okay, this is my selfish pitch. Okay, yeah. Hey, guys, can we also do a pitch real quick? You guys okay if I sell something? Can he sell something to you? Keep in mind, I make no money off this. I don't even know what he's doing. I don't know if I make any money.

No, we have a little fun site we created just because they'd be fun called T-ShirtSmackDown.com where we have two shirts and then people vote with their walls on which shirt they want better. So if you guys want these shirts, you can actually buy whichever one is your favorite or both if you like them both. You just got to go to T-ShirtSmackDown.com and they're up there right now. And guess who's the models on T-Shirt SmackDown? I assume. Are we the models? Yeah.

Anyway, you go to teachersbackdown.com. Yeah, you can get one or two. Oh my gosh, look at that. Your team's amazing, dude. They put it together like that fast. Okay, let's geek out on the book here for a second. The audible door, the password that was audible. When I read that, I was like,

Yes! That's like a brilliant mind at work, right? It's like you have to say it. And the part that I thought was interesting was it wasn't just the words. He's like – and it's programmed to where it will not open unless like the person that is saying it is actually like saying it with conviction or like something to that effect. Like they actually have to like mean it. Yeah, it's real.

you can't just be like okay cool i'm in like now you guys want to read the book so bad you want okay all right let's we'll come back to the t-shirt smackdown comment down below let us know uh and let us know guys let us know down in the comments and if you're listening on audio you can like go leave a rating and review and like leave us in the comments but like if you're listening youtube facebook wherever like comment down below where the best part of your favorite part of the conversation was so far i think that'd be super cool

What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. I've got something really cool for you today from my friend Taylor Wells. Taylor spoke at our last Funnel Hacking Live because I wanted him to share a really cool concept about what he calls the revolving pricing method. And today he decided to sponsor the podcast to give you guys more access to this super cool strategy that you are going to love. It's something we've been implementing into our high-end coaching program as well, and it is amazing. But to kind of give you some context about

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Okay, let's get out of the book for a second here. I actually have a lot of questions about the book, but I want to know, like, what was, like, your favorite scene? Oh, some of the good scenes. My favorite scene in the book, so it's kind of like the crescendo of the whole book. The whole book is asking, who's John Gall? Who's John Gall? Okay, hold on. Sorry. Dave is sitting here in the background. Have you read the book, Dave? Okay, so I'm just making sure. You're making sure that you're not just sitting over here. I got back. I was freaking out. Dave's like, I have to read it, too. I was like, I need to talk to somebody. Dave, go read this. I'll see you in six months. But

Okay, I'm fanning for the book. So the whole book's linked to who's John Galt, who's John Galt. We kind of introduced him a little bit when Dagny meets him and then she leaves and goes back to the real world. And all of a sudden, there's this part where the looters and the government are trying to do this broadcast. And all of a sudden, the broadcast is interrupted. And they're trying to figure out how to fix it, but all the people who would fix it have been taken. Because all the great minds of society are gone. They're gone. And all of a sudden, over the loudspeaker comes

John Galt. And he starts the speech and the speech I think is 80 pages in the book. It's four hours on the audio book. Four hours. This is why you don't watch the movie by the way because it's less than 30 seconds in the movie. How do you take out four hours? It's such a good book. Anyway, he gets on his microphone broadcasting to the entire world. Nobody can cut him off and he gives this speech about big pictures. The whole book. I'm just like freaking out. The setup was so crazy. I was like,

And anyway, that was my, and he ends with this and he goes, and I'll say it like one last time. I pledged my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man or ask another man to live for mine. Oh, anyway, that was my favorite part. The 80 page four hour long portion of it. Okay. Oh yeah. So good. Okay. I like that. My favorite part of the book. I read this and I was like,

So I like, I like play my life and like act like I'm in a movie, right? Sometimes I'm like, do this. So do you remember at the wedding? Oh, Francisco speech. Oh yes. Okay. That might've been better. I get done with that chapter. And I'm like, I promised Leah, I would be done after this chapter. And like, it ends. And I'm like, I know.

Yeah, I do think – so the John Galt had a better build-up and then like – I didn't know it was coming. Like there's wedding and everything and then all of a sudden it starts happening. I was like – Out of freaking nowhere. Yeah, so Francon – Francisco Deaconia. Yeah, Francisco Deaconia. He gives a speech that was like – yeah, I wasn't expecting it. So I think it was less build-up but it was amazing, yeah.

The John Galt buildup was like, this is like, I was waiting to see that movie. Cause I was like, it'd be amazing. Then it's like, come on, like, come on anyway. Yeah. Those are the two best parts. Yeah. Yeah. At that wedding, like I'm reading this and I'm like, that was when, like, it was like that, that moment I was like, okay,

She, she finally like made it all like, and it was relatively early on in the book. I was like, Oh, if the book follows anything like this, this is going to be such a good book. Right. Cause like he gets done with that. And like, you're just, it's like something you'd want to like watch out in real life. And you know, somebody thought this up and I wrote it down. You're just like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

that was so good that was hands down the favorite read the book again i wish it wasn't 1200 pages because like i want to go back and experience it but it's so big okay have you read the cliff notes version of the book no okay so yeah so there is there's i think there's the cliff notes like the one that you buy i think it's like a four-hour audio book i haven't listened to that one but usually like cliffnotes.com like read the book you can basically you can basically get a summary of the whole book like

30 to 45 minutes. I read it. It's still worth reading though, you guys. Oh, 100%. 100%. It's just worth it. And actually, that's the reason I bring it up because like,

I know it's 1,200 pages, but, like, you don't – like, if you just read The Cliff Notes, you're like, oh, okay, like, cool storyline. But, like, you miss the effect, like, the oomph of it all. One of the things that I thought was fascinating – and this is because, like, I'm working on my next book, which is, like – it's not a how-to book, so I'm learning how to write differently. So I've been reading a lot. Ooh, you want to tell us all about it? I'm really proud of it. I'm excited for it. But one thing that was interesting, like, if you look at how Ayn Rand did the dialogue in the book, she did all the dialogue where it's just one person speaking.

So it's fascinating. Every time you notice that, like when, when her partner was in the cafeteria with some guy, we didn't know you only hear his words. You never hear the other side. Oh, that's so true. Most of her dialogues, which is she heard the one person talking and you can get the gist of the conversation by reading one side. They'd never had the other side. And I'd never seen someone write that way before. And there's a lot of cool things like that where it's just like people. And like, again, I've written three books now, but like I wrote books with Google docs with editors and people like imagine writing a book in the fifties with a typewriter.

I think how much pre-forthought has to go to something like this. That's wild. It is insane to think that. Yeah. So like, I have so much respect for people who wrote then and next question, I'm trying to learn how to write as a story as opposed to how to, and it's like the art of it is, is just, it's fascinating. And as, as, as a book, it's just like, it's worth reading. Just like to see how she wrote is fascinating as well. What was your like biggest, actually, I want to go down that rabbit hole a little bit further. So like,

Is your next book fiction or not? No, it's just the next book is I bought bootstrap.com. So next book is bootstrap and it's the ClickFunnels story. It's not like the how-to. It's telling the story as the story, which is going to be cool. Oh, it's going to be so good. The first thing we're doing is all the core people who have been part of the ClickFunnels story are flying them out and interviewing them. I've been mapping out the entire timeline of events as close as I can remember and interviewing all the pieces from their point of view. I'm trying to get that from like 50%.

50 different people and then take all that stuff i think the time lends up and write the book as a story um anyway so it's a different writing style never done before that's interesting uh because oh yeah dave wants to tell you the cool part so i'm also like uh been re-geeking out on like here with a thousand faces and the hero's two journeys and like all that stuff i want to make sure well someday i want to try to sell to hollywood or something so who knows i don't have the end of the story yet but like but so which is by the way super fascinating because like

the concept of like going for a target and then like going towards it. Like you don't know the end and now you're just like, so cool. It was cool. But I was like, so much fun to watch. So like I'm writing, I didn't, so I've been, I've been geeking out on the hero's journey. So I'm like, I'm trying to sync the timeline of the click funnel startup story to the timeline of the hero thousand faces, like to all the core, the core things to see if I can get it to fit inside that framework, which I think we'll be able to do that way. Yeah. It's going to be amazing. And then, uh,

What I'm trying to do in my new office is I'm going to build the room where it's like a timeline. So the entire room wraps in a huge, like a,

like a chalkboard with like a timeline that goes around has like the dates and here's dirty stuff right and then like you know you're like writing in each core thing on the on the wall and then you know like the you in the spy movies where you have like the string that goes you have the pieces of paper yeah somebody like as i'm writing the book i want to have the whole thing timed out in the square room and so you see it all and they can see all the pieces how they all fit together and then that'll when the book's done in that room that'll be the wallpaper on the

Oh my gosh. Okay. All right. So here's, here's a, here's a great idea. So like you do that up until like a certain point, like this is modern day. And then there's like an end of the wall. And then like from that point to there, that's when you're writing. When you get to the end of the wall, you have to sell everything and go into hiding and become done goal. Fascinating. But they get right. It's right. Story. That's way different. It's not.

like a all my other books are how-to books so it's like they're written differently and so it's just been fun which by the way is why i i was like when i like first got into entrepreneurship i was like i don't know why anybody would write a book that's not like that like i'm like what why would anybody write a book like this this is so lame and now i'm like reading it i'm like oh my gosh it's so cool yeah i have a ton of respect like the books i'm reading right now like ice fish shoe dog which is like the story oh that's a great book uh american kingpin which is like

The story of the Silk Road and the Dark Web, my favorite stories I've ever read. I read it twice already. And the writer is probably the best writer I've ever read. I read it and I was so depressed. I was like, I'll never write as busy. I tried to hire him to write my book for me, but he's too busy. I will give you a blank check. Just write this book. You're so much better than I could ever dream of. So I had to go learn how to do it. What was your most, like what was the most fascinating thing about Atlas Drugged to you? Like the way it was written or the concepts or the characters, like what was the overall like the most fascinating part for you?

Man, character development is so cool. I think the coolest thing for me was like each – I would love to see some diagram because I don't know it. But each of the characters each played –

They were a character, but they played a role that magnified society as a group almost, right? Yeah, that's actually super true. And Dagny, and then like- James Taggart. Oh my God. Taggart's wife. Yeah. All the people, they were humans, but they were a personification of a segment of-

of society which is really cool and so it's like seeing that where you're just like you're getting this like this micro versions macro problem um that was cool because like i never again i don't study politics i'm not deep into it so i don't know all these things and like you hear this character you hear the story i'll see like oh my gosh that represents this group of people that i and so for me it was cool because i was able to understand um things at a different level and i i'm not the bestest but i always try to like put myself in other people's shoes i try to understand like

like that's why i'm not super political because it gets so divisive and i'm like i see good on both sides like i understand like i can love people on both sides of it i think it was so cool for me because i was able to like you see the pros and the cons of each thing right you see the positive negatives of each belief pattern like as much as i related to him it's like there's the good and evil right yeah i think there's good like all of them have that so like it was just cool because it gave me this perspective i didn't know of

so many different segments of society made this really cool tapestry picture for me. Huh? All right. So now the polar opposite, like what do you think the book lacked in or like, like didn't communicate well or like left out? I think something to talk about today, like I do feel like, um, most of the producers in the book, they didn't have the other side of it, right? Like the social stuff is important. Like helping other people is important. Um,

And I get why she didn't, like I said, the, the Phil Donahue interview, she's like, people should be social. They shouldn't do with the gun. We should ever show that she didn't show Hank Reardon going and like, Oh, this is a cause I care about. Like, let me go in at all, you know, in any part. And I think that's, that's important. Like, that's why we talk about the political on the left side, like, like they're,

What they're trying to do is good. It's right. Like it's, it's from God. Like it's just so good things. Right. But there's like, but there's ways that people twist and all sorts of stuff like that. And I wish they would show more of that because I felt like the characters were one sided where it's just like, you know, it's like the people, the looters are the people that are producers. And I feel like there's more blend. I think for all of us, we have blends of those things and they do a good job of dissecting. Yeah. You know, I think we all have both things. Like I want to give, I want to serve, I want to do things, but I also want to produce. I want to do both those things. Right. Like how do I, what's the world look like where we do both of those things?

And I don't know how to, you know, in my, in my, in my little universe, I've created for myself and my family. Like I'm trying to, I'm trying to produce. Then we've got, Oh, you are, we've got these things. Like I'm trying to contribute and try and do my version of what I think is right. Right. Like all we can do is like what we think is right in our own little world that we create. And so this is my world I've created. I'm trying my best to do it. And, um, and I wish that they would show some outside. I think, I think,

That was the part I feel that the characters were missing, just that part of it.

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Hey, it's me, the Quenchies. I'm that late afternoon craving you just can't shake. Wait, what's that? Welch's Grape-Aid? No! Made with real fruit and no added sugar, nothing answers the call of the Quenchies like Grape-Aid. Got the Quenchies? Grab a Grape-Aid in your juice aisle. So what's interesting in... Price like charity love stuff. Okay, well, and I'm so glad you brought this up. What I think is interesting is...

my takeaway from or like the thing that I felt like the book was lacking the most is nobody had kids. Oh, I didn't think about that. Like, think about this. Like none of them, like, cause one of my questions, she was going to be like, how has, how's having kids? And I kind of asked her early, like kind of changed perspective, but I'm like, interesting. Nobody had kids. So like, and, and I don't have kids. I'm not married. I don't have kids. I'm getting, I'm getting married. Yeah. Shout out to my beautiful fiance. All right. But, um,

Like for me, like I'm so focused right now. So I grew up in a big family, right? Eight kids. I'm the oldest living. I have one older brother who passed away, but like six younger siblings. And so like, for me, I'm like,

man, like my whole life changes once there's kids in it. And like, I know that even though I haven't experienced it because I've seen it, right? And so for me, and like Leah and I have talked about this, like the 20s are for us, the 30s are for kids, right? Like, and so I'm like, I gotta make as much money as I possibly can before then because I, and I even told Colette this, I said, if there's one thing that I would sacrifice my career for in order to be able to do, it'd be like to homeschool my kids. Like I can't fathom sending my kids to public school, right? That's just me because I grew up homeschooled or whatnot. But like, as I was going through the book, I'm like,

I can relate to all these people, but like they're leaving out like this key component. Like imagine being Hank Reardon and like living like he did with your five kids. Or do you have – I have five kids. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I was going to say. I was like, oh my gosh. So like think about that. You know what I mean? And so I feel like one of the – because there's a lot of people I know that have read Atlas Shrugged. They're like, heck yeah, man. Like it's the greatest book ever. Like for profit, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, but like imagine living your life that way with a family. Like imagine living your life like that like with –

Like kids and responsibilities, like people that you actually like love. Think about this because I think of our timeline. It comes back to what we talked about with greed and contribution or growth and contribution, right? So most of us, we get born. All of us, we get born, right? Only way to get here, we're all born, right? And from like when you're born until you're whatever. For me, I got married at 24.

two i was 22 right and so it's like um the first 21 years it's all about you right like it's selfish it's growth it's like whatever it's you you right and everyone's very inward focused and then all of a sudden you meet this beautiful person and you fall in love like this is amazing and also what happens is it shifts from you to like us and like you're giving taking giving and it's cool because like

All your focus isn't on you. It's on somebody else. But they're focused on you too. And it's like this amazing thing where like I'm giving but I'm also getting. It's like this amazing thing, right? It's like this transition that's easing you into kids because then kids come out and it flips now where it's like the opposite where you're just serving 100%, especially at the very beginning with the kids. Like there's nothing – like I was joking with my kids about this one night when they're like, why are you guys so mean? I'm like, do you realize like –

We get no value from this. We don't get paid a penny from this. Like there's nothing in parenting. Like we kill ourselves. We serve. We don't sleep. We work. We pay money. We get – and that's not true. There's value in it. I was like I'm just sitting there imagining Russell telling his kids, we get no value. You do not pay us. I'm like I'm killing myself. To be fair, you do get a tax break. Yeah. It's just funny because I'm like –

You know, and so, but especially the first board, like they're cute and you get less, but they're in the selfish space now where you're giving a hundred percent and they're not giving back other than like they giggle and cute. Oh, it's so cute. But for the most part, it's like, if you have this like training at this time where you're selfish and it's like, oh, I'm, I'm serving someone else, but they're serving me an amazing now since like a hundred percent service there. And I think that that's a good point. Like, hey, career had only done this thing. And then, you know, he never had a chance to like a hundred percent serve somebody else and see what that's like. Cause that the value you get as a parent is amazing.

is when you serve 100% of the kids and you see like who they become and you know yeah and that's the value but um but it doesn't come from like from like the the quick pro quo that you normally get with like i'm gonna buy this thing or pay for this thing right ever right it's like i'm gonna serve and serve and serve it and eventually hopefully someday you turn to be yeah well because i and that's a super interesting point and maybe that's maybe that's why she left the part out of it because she was like none of these people would ever have she didn't have kids so that's the big you know she's never seen that um

That's crazy. Because what, like I was, you know, going through and I'm like, this book, I think would mean so much different or like, so like when I first read it, like I said, whenever I first learned about this back in high school, right? Like I read it, I was like,

I hated reading. I publicly declared, and this is actually funny. Like I, when I graduated high school, I bought myself a pickup truck. I stood on top of the pickup truck and I publicly declared to the world that I would never read another book ever again in life. I hated reading. Right. Um, and so that's funny. Cause now I'm reading 1200 books and I've read every, every one of those books, um, back there. Um, like, um,

It didn't really take on the same effect as like now, like being an entrepreneur, like being someone that like at one point I have five employees and I'm like 26 years old. You know, it's like now I'm reading and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if I read it with kids, I feel like that would even like give me a, like a completely different perspective on like it. How is, how is having kids?

changed your... Because you were an entrepreneur basically from day one. You never really had a job, right? I've served tables and I haven't had a job in more than three months. Okay, so you're a failure in the normal society, right? You can't hold a job. You get fired forever. How has having kids...

And, like, having to balance – man, like, dude, you're running a – ClickFunnels is a billion-dollar company, right? We're allowed to say that? Like, that's a thing, right? Like, roughly? Like, I'm not off on that. All right. The value is basically what people pay for. So hopefully – So we're going to say a billion-dollar company. So, like, you're running this billion-dollar company. You've made hundreds of millions of dollars. You've been paid a million dollars an hour from the stage before. Big props. Congratulations. Like, how has –

balancing work now with that, like with the kids, like growing up, I feel like like now they're at, cause you're old, this is what? You're too old, 14, almost 15. Right. So like, how has that changed the way that you view your work? Like, do you struggle with that? Like the balance?

Yeah. Especially now with like COVID stuff happening, kids being homeschooled. But now it's like, before it was easy to separate. It's like, they're going to school. I'm going here. Separation is easy. Now it's harder because like, they're still home and it's like, ah, should I be there? Like, you know, it's, it's definitely, it's definitely tough. Um,

And it's, it's interesting. I assume your friends always tease them because it's like, you don't have any kids and they're doing amazing things. I'm like, yeah, but I'm doing this stuff. And I got five kids and a beautiful wife and I got calling to my church and there's so many things. I think it's, it's just, I think I hired a trainer. Dave knows the safe trainer. Remember when he started working this, he said, the biggest thing he knows when you start working with me is that you'll be shocked what your body can actually endure.

I think that most people don't understand what they could actually do. Like, how do you run a company this big and have a family and have a successful marriage and have these, like, you can do it. Like most people don't because they sedate and like, I don't watch four hours of football at night because I have all these other things, right? Like, like, I don't know. It's just like, if you take away the excuse of sedation, like you can produce so much more than I think people are able to understand. I don't know. So it's interesting. And then, um,

It's been such a weird thing too with kids because I think when you first start having kids, you assume they're all going to be like you, right? Like, oh, they're all going to be entrepreneurs. It's so much fun. And then I had twins. It was crazy. Twins, our first two came out as twins. Now they're 14, almost 15. It's crazy because I assume like they'd all be the same, the same as me, or the same together. And they are so polar opposites, right? Yeah, I didn't even know. I just found out today that they were twins. I had no clue. Collin's like, yeah, they're both turning 15. I'm like, wait, what? Yeah.

They look at each other, act each other, and like one's more entrepreneurial, one's more – like if you look at like this profile, we have a DI, we have an SC. Oh my gosh. Introvert, extrovert. Like all the things are different. And I always thought, you know, like my kids are going to be entrepreneurs like me. And now it's like, no, I don't think they have to be. This kind of goes back to what I talked about earlier. Like, you know, with my kids, I'm like, what do you want to do? And –

you know, I think one of my things, some of my kids are very entrepreneurial. A lot of them aren't. I think some of my kids are super smart, hard workers. We're going to be amazing at the roles they play in, in something. And they're going to be a huge part of like changing somebody's world, but it's not going to be the front person of it. Right. And so it's just, it's been interesting watching that and, um, fulfilling and hard and it's all the things wrapped into one. Um, you know, it's,

I don't know. It's an interesting experience. You're going to love it. You should start having kids right away. Yeah, that's not going to happen. Okay, but why though? Because you know you should take time. Okay, but how long did you wait? Two? Let's see. We had our 18-year anniversary. This kid's turning 15. So almost three years. Three years before. We tried earlier, but we had fertility drugs, stuff like that and everything. But yeah, it's about two years when we started training. Okay.

Yeah, I can't kids scare me, dude. And I'll tell you what, but so like, it's interesting because like I grew up with six younger siblings. So like, I was definitely old enough to remember like the whole diaper phase and like, you know, obviously I wasn't the parent with it, but like, and the, the church that I went to, like the,

eight was like average to small amount of kids. Like a lot of them were like 13 kids, 12 kids, 14 kids, whatever. Like I think the smallest in our whole church was four, right? Like, and they were the weird ones, right? You only have four kids. Right. And so it's like everywhere we went, that's just like what it was. And so for me, like I had that rebellion phase, if you will, which I don't know what to call it, rebellion phase, but like where I was like, I don't want

I don't want any of this. Like, why would you like, they're expensive and, and they like suck all the time. And I, I can't go do this. I'm like, I want to be so filthy rich before I go like having kids. And so, and I like taught Sunday school and like was very involved in like the church growing up and things like that. And so for me, it was like, I want to go build my business, like building off, like doing that as like more fun. The interesting thing about kids. And I told my parents this, I don't remember what it was, but,

like my parents are not like my parents aren't like super like wealthy or like successful when it comes to business or anything like that but like i look at my parents as like some of the most successful people that i've ever met in my life because like my mom's favorite but there's like little things that my mom like tells me over and over and over again and she's like one of her favorite lines is the only thing i need to know in life is like i just need to know that my children walk in truth right and i'm like my mom particularly and my dad too like both of them but like i relate it with my mom because she keeps saying it is like

my mom's definition of success and like achievement was do my children walk in truth, do my children, like that is what was success to her. And like, she's like, you can take, you know, like, yeah, money would have been great. Like all these different things, but like, that was like kind of this, this pinnacle of success for her is like, do my kids like walk in truth. And so as I have gone through my own journey of faith, which has been, I mean, it has been rough at times, right? Like I've watched her like struggle with it and like freak out because she's like, I just want, I'm like, but it's not,

Like that's not her journey to bear, but like it is like at the same time. And so it's always been interesting. Like kids are like this thing where I feel like once I have them, obviously I'm there for the rest of my life. But like, I feel like there's this, this stress or like this new, there's this new piece of my life that's unlocked that like I've never explored before. I don't know anything about it. Right. And I'm like,

afraid isn't the right word, but I'm like pushing that off. That is as long as I possibly can, because once it's open, then I never get to close it again. And like that mystery is almost like fun to like look forward to, but at the same time be like, I get to focus on it. I mean, yeah. Essentially. I remember thinking about a lot, especially first few years. I was like, this is so much harder than I thought it was going to be.

like flat out i was like i i thought it was going to be you know whatever way harder but i also remember feeling and saying a lot like this is so much cooler than i ever dreamt hmm so it was like this double-edged sword i was like man i didn't realize how tired and like worn out like all these things but then like so much better than i thought and um it's funny because i know a lot of friends like well we're gonna make money than all the kids i don't think

I don't know. It's different. Like I would just have kids like you can do both. It's not, it's not impossible. Especially in the first born, they sit there and they're like, you know, and I would throw, I spent a year or two and just not. Right, right, right. But like, I wouldn't wait till like, Oh, I need a million bucks in the bank. I get people all the time. Like I have, I know people that were broke. They have eight kids. Like just,

they're not that expensive right like Cheerios are not that expensive like if you need to you know like um it's just it's just it's just being willing to be there and be loving and being um being present for as much as you can um another thing it's been interesting uh especially now that our kids are into teenagers it's like so much harder that's been harder just like really that's harder than when they're young oh for sure

Yeah. Dave's over here just laughing. Oh, gosh. What am I in for, Dave? Oh, no. The young heart is like, I am tired. That's the hard part when you're young. When they're older, it's just like, am I messing these kids up? I just want them to be successful. That's the bigger fear. It was interesting. I remember the little thing that gave me some grace, like Tom Bilyeu. I heard an Instagram post he had of him talking about how –

Being a parent, and it was so funny because he's like, "Who here is scared that you're going to F up your kids?" That was how he would have said it. "Who's going to mess up your kids?" And everyone's hands are like, "Yeah, I'm scared." He's like, "Guess what?" He's like, "My parents messed me up." Your parents are like, "You're going to mess your kids up, but guess what? We turned out okay in the end. Just be okay with the fact that you're going to mess your kids up because you are." And I remember I was like, "Okay." Everyone messed up their kids. That's part of it.

But that's part of the whole journey. That's the journey. You know, it's like, that's part of it. And I think it gave me some grace of just like, look, I'm gonna do my best. I'm probably gonna mess them up. But at the same time, like you have to have faith, like they're going to do their thing and, and they're going to hopefully make good decisions. And if not, that's why we have God. That's why we have repentance. All these things, you know, and just kind of leave it to him and, and, you know, do your best.