124: visionOS 2.2 and Where Vision Pro Goes Next
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Welcome back to another episode of the macro man show. hardly. Good afternoon. How's is your dab and going so .

far not very well, but tomorrow will be a Better day.

okay. Yeah, I set you up for that. I know you're over share, but it's fine. People well, let people speculate on that. Um well, we got we got new m four max coming out tomorrow. But one of the exciting things that's kind of like because we can kind of segway into a mac specific topic, but it's more so vision vision OS apple vision pro, new apple vision, something whatever is gonna called coming out in the future, apple vision pro two potentially coming out the future. We're going to talk about all of that.

But first i'll start with the visionary s two point two beta came out um and in that brought the best feature in my opinion, one of the best new features has got a little bit of an upgrade. And i'm curious to hear your thoughts. I know you don't have an apple vision priority more.

So i'm curious now that you've seen some of them like the way it's work, like a we posted a video on my experience here a couple days ago um with the new wide and ultrawise monitors for your mac virtual display. I think it's really, really good. And I feel like if you had this um feature when you got the apple vision pro, I feel like you would have kept IT or at least given IT a longer shot. What do you think just going off what you've seen.

I have been surprised by how positive the reviews have been, which is horse ling. Um one thing I really like to know from you is just how perceptable is the higher resolution? Is IT really that noticeable?

Yes, IT is noticeable. It's it's a really good like noticeable difference. But I think what's Better is that the fov ated rendering is like it's still happening, but it's not like have you you have tried the mac virtual that's just for the right when you had okay, you know, said I was pretty much whatever you were looking directly at was the only little bit of your mac screen basically that was in focus and the rest of IT was kind of like a like got worse kind of bloom down.

I got worse as like the rest the screen this is way more of the display that of the virtual display that you're looking at is just sharp, crisp and in focus, which is nice. Um so that gives you that up and of course obviously whenever you shift your eyes over to the parts that might not be that will become in focus to but uh yeah the the not only is the resolution just that much Better, but that fob a rendering being Better just helps overall with the with the focus on and what you're looking at, especially with text. I've noticed that is just more enjoyable.

I've noticed that is just more usable. And so yeah, I really do think you would have liked IT. I'm sad that you can't have to try IT someday soon.

Truthfully, will this make you use your vision for more truthfully?

Yes.

interesting.

But it's not it's not the vision pro like features and software and and what you can do with that, that's the problem. It's it's still the fit. It's still just how heavy IT is.

That is the major flaw in all of this is that like I don't want to put this thing on my head because IT hurts after a certain amount of time. Now I did just get one of those new like apparatuses that can like kind of bring the weight more to the back, your head and even things out. I have not used IT yet, but i've heard good things from people who have and there's a bunch of different variations.

I just got something on amazon that in front of us also used and said that IT was really good and made them want to use IT more so i'm going to try that out but i've been honestly since the new vision O S two point two bit came out. Uh i've been using IT to um just get some work done in an environment that is just met the ultrawise might be too much. I don't know if you ve seen the really it's huge like that takes up an insane amount of so .

you have really time you head a lot.

You really are yeah you really are having to take your head. But like it's fine because what you can do is basically, I feel like I get really is two or three twenty seven inch displays in front of me and at like good quality, very big. And so I just set up like three full size displayed apps on my, on my virtual display.

There you one in the left, one in the dle, one on the right. And then I could just kind of reference what I need to and what I called. I don't think I set in the video, but I wanted to.

It's basically like from the office where White had mega desk, I had like mega virtual displays. And because I had that set up with an ultrawise and then I put three vision pro apps like one up on the upper left, one up in the upper center and then the upper right. And you know, you can use if you're using a test top APP, you have your magic keyboard, magic mouse that will work fine between not only your virtual display but also the vision profs.

And then the same thing, if you're using a macbook, you can just use your track pad and you're um what the track in the keyboard. So that works totally fine. So I just had so many windows is IT overkill.

yeah. But that was school. I don't know. I wanted to try, had fun.

So so far, am I right in thinking that you haven't really used vision pro out in the field because you want to use IT, not just testing but just out of your own sincere wish to do IT? Because virtual mac visual display in its previous increase was not fantastic tic. So you think that's different now. When can you see yourself using this?

I mean, now for sure, with this new beta, the only problem that I didn't want to use mac virtual display before was just because of the phobia. A rendering in the display quality I just IT was too hard to like when i'm editing. It's like I really need to able to see the find details of the time line, see like every little bit of that little thum nail that's there because that's kind of how i'm going and off of what i'm looking at.

And then you know the text that i'm adding in and writing scripts, I need to be able to see all that pretty well. And IT was difficult but like overall, the feature of itself was amazing and we worked really, really well. Um and so now you take what was good about IT before and add in the fact that everything is just a lot more clear in chis black is so much more usable.

It's just the problem with vision prose. The weight fits and feels after like thirty minutes of use. My face just needs that relief so I have no doubts that this I feel like i'm just getting to like hyperbolic about all of this.

But like I I I feel like apple vision pro is a success overall in terms of what you can do with IT, how IT looks um and all of the features and things, obviously watching content. But now working on IT is really, really good. And I just feel like with each software update, it's getting Better and fixing a lot of the complaints.

But they just really need to nail down the form factor. And once they can somehow bring that experience into a much more comfortable forming factor, which will talk about and a little bit with that one that can be connected to your iphone um and it's more of just glasses. I feel like if we can somehow get sixty percent of that experience that we have now and something that you know light on your face, I think it's just going to be huge. Do you think i'm off face or are you I don't know.

No, I agree. I think I think the biggest issue with vision pro, the single biggest issue is comfort and fit. Um now they are all a bunch of other issues. Don't get me wrong.

I mean, I actually think that the fact that he is taken as to visionless two point two, which isn't even out yet, that will be out in dissemble um is really an indication of just how unfinished the vision pro was when IT launched. And IT makes me really wish that apple would have been more patient and weighted until maybe even now to actually launch vision pro when there is a lot more content for IT. The software is significantly Better. Um even all the immersive content that has come out over the past few months um the selection of games, the ecosystem is now starting to get somewhere and starting to grow. But I feel like they kind of they missed an opportunity to build momentum with this platform and they actually built up a little negativity um among people that should be enthusiastic about IT like me, just because I was unfinished.

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S H O P M A N D O dot com, that's code mac at short metal dot com, S H O P M N D O dot com. Thanks, AManda. Response ing this episode. So I kind of feel like i'm seeing you in a more positive light after like noticing how much these improvements are happening in the software release over release.

I kind of feel like I I I don't hate the way apple released this honestly, because if they if they try to launch this in secret, but I get more people to test this because ultimately, you need more people to test that. Developers are developers there really only testing IT in one specific bubble for the most part and that's just how does their APP work with the platform. Yeah, if you're a good developer, you're going to spend time using the whole things that you can really understand.

But a lot of these you a lot of these apps that are being made or just corporations and they're like, hey, we got a deadline. You need to do this. Don't spend too much time messing around with stuff that might not possibly matter with our APP work with our APP and then you just kind of put yourself in this bubble of how you're developing.

But when you take a step back and you launch this product, you get the hype out there. You out offer regular people who are just in the store that want a um you know the ability to test the best features, which is what they're testing. They're not seeing the bugs and things that you know everyday users are seeing.

They're seeing the bass speeches, which is content being able to use IT with your mac and just having an immersive world on your face. And they get IT for twenty minutes and then they're off and then they tell their friends the tech enthusiast that aren't buying IT are the ones that are a little more vocal and negative about IT because they see that yeah oh my scale production scale has been dropped, you know. And so now apple, it's a bus. It's a bus.

And apple is not focusing on IT anymore, where I hope and I think they are actually still focusing quite a bit on IT, but they're looking at other alternatives in a much more faster pace than they probably wanted to where this is like, okay, we do have something here with what we have, but we just need to get that form factor down and and we need to figure out from real world users, people who spent their harder and cash on IT. We need to figure out from them without an nda, without an embargo, just naturally, people tweet and posting and making videos like we are like being able to see what is actually a problem and how can we fix that. I feel like with a lot of these releases, IT has been happening.

And oh, by the way, I still will, to this day tell you that spatial photos and videos, one of the more incredible things that you will ever experience. And with that vision, O S, too, being able to take any photo that you've taken on anything, even the ones that are from old iphones are just any photo, and turning into a special photo is still. Kind gets material to this.

Just thinking about IT because of how good IT is. I just did IT a couple of days ago for the first time in a long time since the bate came out. And I started doing IT with old photos.

You know, I did IT with my mom just to get real happy here, but like, lost my mom a couple months ago, and I put some photos of that. And i'm just like, I can understand the appeal of that, just being able, like, feel like you in that room with that person again is incredible. And you don't have to do IT for sad moments.

You could do with happy moment. I did IT with my kids and i'm just like, man, I was just there two weeks ago. This feels like i'm there in that moment again.

And if they can figure out a way to get videos to look like that because the photos look good, the videos, you know, that's the next step, like doing that in a form factor that you can you know have quickly and easily put on your head. You're not being hurt by IT is something that I feel like will explode IT and take into the next level. We're not there yet. It's early. And I know that you think that there is a lot of like negativity around IT, but I think that it's justified and will only help make IT Better in the future.

That was A I I I do I agree with you in essence, I think what's really interesting is the strategy from here um because I agree with you that they need to start iterating on this device. But what looks like is going to happen is actually know what we were discussing a couple of months ago because right now, there are hundreds of thousands of vision pro components piling up in warehouses.

And IT looks like what apple is going to do is to stop production of the existing vision process said this year. And the reason for that is because they have built enough of them for the remained that they expect this version of the headset to be on sale. So it's not really a scary story.

No, IT just means that they built enough of them, but they have all of these components in warehouses. So to use up these components, um what they are supposedly going to do either at the end of next year or in twenty twenty six is update the current hardware to introduce the m five chip. So everything else will be the same, but you will get and five on a long side and five you will get apple intelligence because of course, the vision pro does not have IT.

That is anything to me because I don't know if if let's say, IT gets the twenty twenty six and in early twenty twenty six, we get a vision pro two with m five. And that is all that is different, m five and apple intelligence, but IT waites the same as the same materials. Everything else is the same experience, the same displays. Is that really enough? And two years from now.

I don't know. See, that's where I would be. Not excited. I I, I would not be excited about that because that is too long if you want to do this now like early twenty twenty five.

So one year after release, if you can do a early upgrade for that. So in february, march maybe and add in m five. And I mean, like you just said, all they're doing is replacing the internal IT is not a whole there.

I would hope that they could already be working on apple intelligence for IT. So we're hoping that, that's already something that's going on. So if that's the case, then I would be fine with IT. But if you're pushing in the twenty twenty six and you have no signs of a cheaper, lighter weight, different version by that point, then yes, that's where we're starting to get into a scary situation, in my opinion.

And if we are talking about a scary situation, there was another detail among these reports, which I thought was very interesting, which was that apple um ordered. I think IT was something like, let me actually check this because I don't want to I don't anna say the wrong detail here. Um so okay.

So I was when apple was talking to its suppliers about building the vision pro and how many vision pro they would need to manufacturing that for the entire product lifespan, they told their supplies that they wanted to build eight million of them. So if that's over three years when it's on sale, roughly, they're going to sell eight million over that time period. So they are now having these conversations with their suppliers about the low cost headset.

Now you would think if the headset is going to be a low cost headset around two thousand dollars, they're gone to sell more of them, right? Apple doesn't think so. Apparently, apple is all at half as many the same product cycle. So they are only expecting to sell four million rather than eight million. So even apple's own expectations for this product line are dropping significantly, which I think is fascinating um because I think that what has happened with vision pro behind the scenes is that there has been in a about turn.

I think that when they launched this product, they thought we are going to lodge vision pro too, which is going to be redesigned IT is going to be um the hard way will have evolved by then we will use more advances, displays um eyesight will have evolved. All of these things will have changed and we will also move to launch a low cost headset that will be significantly cheaper and significantly different, which will sell in higher volume. And I think what they've realized is all god, we're not selling enough vision prose.

So stop producing that. Let's instead devote resources to just doing A A chip bump because we we need to move resources away from the true second generation or what will now be the third generation, which currently is not in active development, because we need to devote more resources to the low cost model, but the low cost model that were not expecting to sell very well because we're all selling enough of the current generation. So I think that whatever is .

going on with I ic, yeah, I don't know why. Why though, that doesn't seem like apple to have this sudden panic. I wonder .

what I think. I think that I don't think this product has gone how apple wanted IT to go. And as much as tim can now say in end of users, he said, I think he was even as recently as last week, he was asked about vision problem.

He said, well, you know it's it's a three thousand dollar device um we're not expecting that to sell super well. You know it's the first generation. Well, you weren't saying that a year ago. A year ago, you were saying this is for everyone, special computer, everyone.

But we realized it's but we all know it's not. But the problem is, if you know if I don't know, I feel like it's a easy solution in my opinion, and you need to get something it's got to be under two grand that's maybe they are realizing that, okay. You know what we're offering and what we what we're pricing at is probed still too high. You know, it's really ruining all of this is the fact that you can get a metaverse now for what two ninety nine, and you can get the other one for five ninety nine. And then there's like a power version, maybe still, I don't even know anymore in their lineup, but that's like just at one thousand, they can figure out away to get IT down to like that thousand dollar Price point or the same as an iphone or something like because what man I really want to maybe we should switch here, here soon about the iphone based one, because what's that gonna cost if most of the computing is being uploaded to the iphone and relying on that, so you have to buy an iphone first off? And then what's the head second to be on top of that can be more than the iphone could IT .

I think IT could be more than the iphone. But I think there's a big difference between charging um twelve hundred dollars for an accessory and charging two or three and a half thousand dollars um and that is also what I think is concerning about this, a low cost version of the headset because they are going to have to strip out features for that. Supposedly they are going to use larger, lower resolution displays. Those displays are not great right now.

Well, hold, hold, hold, hold, hold down, hold down, hold. We praise the displays when they first displays .

are good for certain things.

They're good and they're Better .

than most in its category. Like yes, however, um when you are looking at text and you are trying to do actual productive work, they are not great and likewise um with pass through um I suspect it's most of the cameras that are not very good but pass through if you do that in anything less than really bright lighting IT does not look good. I will I will .

say and i'm not I feel like i've seen other people also say this. I feel like visions O S two point two has somehow improved pass through lighting or pass through in general with low light situations. I feel like it's gotten Better.

I've noticed that, like, you know, this studio is usually pretty dark when I don't have all the light on and IT was like unusable like that, i'd have to basically turn on the overhead lights, ince the other, maybe open up the blinds here. And like I didn't have to do that and IT was working pretty well. I wasn't even getting the low like light notification.

And I feel like just in general, like things look a little bit more clear and Better. So I don't know if i'm just going crazy or if there actually was a software improvement somehow. But yeah, I mean, once you upgrade the cameras, then you know .

about proms. I guess what i'm saying is the concern I have about this low cost headset and what I suspect is going on inside apple is conversations around tables saying, but how do we bring the Price down? We can get rid of eyesight.

We can use a less powerful chip um and we can use plastic instead of aluminium and glass. And that means that IT will be lighter as well and we can use that as a selling point. But what else can we actually do here? What can we remove? This is already such an expensive product. The components in IT are expensive um and charging two thousand dollars for this thing if IT is an inferior experience in everything in term except weight, if the displays are inferred, if he does not have eyesight, if IT is not as powerful um are people gonna rush out by that a two thousand dollars starting Price I don't think so. Two thousand years to go too expensive for an inferior experience if you're .

going to make IT that experience, which I still think that would be Better than a medalist. Uh in my opinion, if you you ve got a Price, you've got to match IT, you ve got to or be a couple hundred dollars higher. So if you're trying to compete with that four ninety nine, three ninety nine area, then make IT like six or seven.

Apple will never do that. But I mean, that would be where that product that you just describe should be if you're pricing IT at two thousand dollars. That's not onna work out unless we're wrong about what's going going on inside and .

not as many dry. Personally, I fully expect this low cost headset to be delayed. And which one are we .

calling the low cost like the actual apple vision, not the one that's offloaded in being glasses here.

renting a theos product, different products further out. What I am talking about is the single vision headsets that is a new product that is currently an active development and is supposed to launch either at the end of next year or the year after. But personally, I would not be surprised if that is delayed.

I think that what will happen here realistically is that we will get an m five refresh in early twenty twenty six. And maybe in late twenty twenty six, we will get apple vision. But that is some time away, and I don't think that is good for this product line.

No, it's not you can't wait that long, like I said earlier and like you're saying now, um I just I really think you should abandon if if that's your plan to just abandoned that right now. Keep the apple vision pro go right to this device that they're seriously considering where it's like the x real because i've tried the x real glasses last year. I see yes.

yeah. I mean, they are not there's not uh, it's not anywhere near a vision pro or medical. You know obviously, it's a completely different form factor in theory. So like it's not but it's still was really, really like impressive for what I was.

And if you can figure out away to bring apples engineering software, its comparability and just the convenience and being able to use the processing power of apple's chips and silicon, like I really feel like that is the one that's going to appeal to the masses. Oh, you mean I can slip on glasses and now, like, i'm not uncomfortable, I don't look ridiculous, you know, in the superficial aspect of IT. And I can immediately one tap connect to my macbook. And now I have a virtual display that's really good, lag free, basically, and I can get stuff done, packed up the glasses, put him in my pocket and move on like that would be amazing. That be different.

This is this is where vision will ultimately end up going because I don't think that apple is going to be able to get the Price of the low cost heads set down low enough, fast enough. And I don't think that the actual vision pro is going to evoke fast enough either, because m five and apple intelligence in twenty twenty six is not really enough. And so by the time we talk about a third generation vision pro several years after that, I mean, we could be talking twenty, twenty nine before this product gets redesigned.

So I think that what apple should to do here and what I will do because I think it's the most practical, is build devices in this product line that take on the metal ray bands and integrate your airports, integrate apple intelligence, integrate some health features um and also maybe a high end version of that product that is like the x real glasses that you can use mac virtual display with um you can consume video with. You got apple T V plus on there. IT is a content consumption device um but that is not one that breaks the bank and IT is not one that over cells its promise.

If they switch to offering those products, then they will buy themselves time to get vision and vision pro in order. And maybe by the time we get into the twenty thirties, vision pro will be where IT needs to be. Yeah um but I think that I think they're just I think they've oversold and undelivered basically, I think that's what he comes down to.

And IT is IT is so good as you save for special photos, spac videos, some of the immersive content on IT is excEllent. Um IT is undoubtedly the best headset experience that you can currently buy. All of the has been oversold.

I don't know, but I don't know that it's been .

I don't .

know it's been under delivered. I guess we can't oversell something without underdeveloped in theory. But like I feel like what we're getting is still so good and comparison to what else is out there, yes, but that are delivering .

on that there. What else is available? I know that we are not doing a Better device. We are doing A A space al computing device, which is this whole thing. So sure, they presented an image of what space al computing would be like. IT is not that because they showed people, you know with their spread sheet and their multiple windows and actually doing productive work. Now I don't think that even ninety percent of people who buy a vision pro are currently doing that with this device.

I think you will be surprised. I see so many people in for umm and messages and just like people who like, I used mine every day and I use the back versus display every day and love IT like even the comments that I had on my my last video about IT like there are so many people that were saying that that's what they used IT for for seven, eight hours a day. And I don't know how. I don't doubt that .

there are all people that are are getting a lot of out of the device. But in terms of what apple is promised from IT, this everything device IT is immersive content. IT is um you will even use that to capture content by using that capture button on IT and everything that IT has been sold to do. Um IT does do many things quite well and Better to them.

competitive all of those things. But you just don't want to do all of those things with IT.

That's the problem. Yeah and and I think that especially in the state that um IT currently is in, whenever anyone really in this sort of wider consumer tech space gets talking about vision pro, well, they end up talking about is, well, where does he go next and will eventually be Better at doing this.

But what about right now what about what has been available for six months because that is the experience that currently cost three thousand five hundred dollars starting Price um before you added on extra storage, before you ve added on any accessory you want to buy, you want to buy a magic keyboard, you want to buy extra headbands that relieve some of that pressure. Um you want to add some prescription lenses, you want to add apple care, you want to add the travel case, that is that is the proposition as IT stands. Um and that is what I mean by over promising and other delivering.

I think that apple would have been Better off buying themselves a year, two years and debuting this device when that contempt was available, when they heard may be realized to more internal testing that that thing is just too heavy. IT just is there is no reason for its be made of aluminium. Why have you done that? IT is so unnecessary.

IT is more expensive for you to manufacturer, and IT is more unstable. The user how many plastic the port max, the apples max should the apples max should show us that. But they've recognized with devices like airports, they not made of an elemental um they made a plastic because that is the best material for that.

We don't use um aliminum um iphone cases. We don't have um a minium apple watch bands. I know that you have some titanian ones, but he seems of like they understand that different materials are good for different situations.

But like sure yeah but like as a whole, like the high end products at apple offers, most of them are made up not from plastics like we had one plastic iphone and people loved IT and apple was like that and removed IT.

I still think it's crazy. I think it's completely crazy to have a device, I I wait, that is, is made of of materials that there was heavy as this. And I think IT is unjustifiable.

And I think he speaks of the fact that this product was I don't think the whole product was rushed because they've been working on this thing for a decade when they first were working on this product. They imagine that being tied to an ipod, that is how long ago they have been thinking about this device. But I thinking, what has happened here is that as the years have gone on, they've thought, god, we need to get this out you know coverage hit remote working.

We need to get this device out into the public as fast as possible. Matter is moving. We need to start iterating because we can't get to the glasses without getting this product out first.

Um and I think that they they just rushed IT. I think that I don't think if anyone could look at vision O S one and say that is not a finish product. Look at how much of mercy video is available for what? Six months? Only only what? Five mercy videos, the whole device for six months. And each of those are only like ten minutes. And it's only now that contents becoming available, how many games were available even now, how many tripoli games are available.

So it's no difference to me than apple intelligence that release. It's honestly like, oh, we're probably been working on this for years and now we have to move quickly because there's chat P T there. There's a there's google's assistance that's getting Better.

They know I think they had to do that without an intelligence. I understand why they had to.

and I feel like that's the same situation. They had to get IT out because there are so many other headsets that are doing.

And with meta making a really good that he doesn't A I is such a massive thing. Apple was losing streak was affecting the share Price. I don't think that investors were panicked about apple not competing with meta headsets.

Basically, they sell no, they sell a decent number of them for what they are. But compared to a business like the iphone, it's nothing. So I just think that if I if I was tim cook um and I could go back in time, I would have said let's let's unveil vision pro in twenty twenty five.

Lets unveil its well, once we've done a lot more internal testing, we are going to deal with apple intelligence with A A huge amount immersive content. Um we're going to make sure that it's got decent games and ultimately, that IT is sufficiently comfortable that everything is ready and maybe will even introduce by that point to introduce IT at a slightly lower Price even if that is just two nine nine. And I think that. IT would have been a more honest proposition, but I just think they jump to the gun very, very slightly.

And that is why we are witnessing, at least from the perspective of these reports and these rumors and the reviews from the tech community, just a little bit of panic and just a little bit of on is about, okay, so are we going to now do something to the to the iphone? Is the low cost? Want me to the to the iphone? Or are we going for x real glasses that actually don't offer the its its own apps? Um what are we doing here? Are we are going for the the local headset.

Is the second generation one going to be pushed out? We're going to take all the people of that. We're now just going to do m five. This is not a product line in a healthy place right now. Um and it's not to say that it's not a very, very impressive piece of engineering um because I absolutely believe IT is and I believe IT is the best headset experience that you can currently buy. Absolutely, if you are in the apple ecosystem, there is no question I would, I would weigh, prefer to have a vision proof and have a magic quest, right? But there is no denying here that there are there are problems in this product .

line of cause. Of course not. I mean, I would be foolished not to I just think that I we've been fine with them going you're out and waiting a little bit longer.

But how how sick where we have talking about IT for years, we're talking about IT and that we're like I it's eventually going to come like I feel like and like I mentioned earlier, that i'm also okay with them, just kind of like beta testing in the real world. I'm okay with IT because I think that'll help speed up the process to make things even Better. But I think but I don't like with your plans yeah, I don't like where it's going. If that's the reports are true.

I don't like where it's going. Thing though is to me what makes apple different to other companies because apple doesn't beta test in the public. Apple doesn't release unfinished products.

Apple has historically always been the company that says, no, what we won't do affordable phone. We're going to wait until we're already to do IT um and this time, they've not behaved like that. Um and I think that IT is behaving like how samsung behaves where they throw out a device, you know guess we will sell IT for this much.

Don't know how many will sell. Maybe we will learn some lessons from this. And then when the next generation comes out that use a basis screwed over because what is gna happen to the people that uh in a yeah time uh have bought this m two version and then there's the m five version with apple intelligence. Tough luck. So hopefully there are some good up.

Hopefully there are some good upgrade programs available.

I don't think that will be because the upgrade programs are dependent on resale and trading .

and and so isn't IT already half the Price like a couple months after release? I don't think this is going to be appealing in that regard. So I just think I came into this overly positive about IT again.

actually came into this conversation super positive. So yeah and you that and I I think that if the vision product wine gets to a place where they have got a range of product, so let's say within the decade, they've got the vision pro three. They've got maybe the apple vision two at a lower Price point.

They have ve got these uh ve got like like a glasses product in a proverb, which is like the x real glasses. And then they have got a low cost version of the glasses that doesn't have display technology, but IT exists to integrate health features and airports, kind of like the messy bounds, but also to get cameras in there um as a as a low end version of that. So you got four products in the lineup within ten years catering to different needs. I think we will be in an OK place, but right now, IT just looks pretty rocky. And I don't think this has been dealt with in a fantastic way to IT.

I just thought about the possibility of because the ribs, the metal bands are so good for, like listening to music or audio. No, there is not the best sounding stuff, but it's pretty good um but just like being discrete and being able to listen to things while like just wearing a regular old pair glasses.

And then if you want to take some photos or videos, you don't have to bring your phone now you can kind of be a little more present in the moment, getting something like that, that integrates seamlessly with an iphone where like, oh, look, I immediately open up the photos happen. It's already there. Like it's because you it's not that easy of an upload process.

You can have to like connected to its own wifi and whatever. It's fine IT works fine, but just the integration that we come to know and expect from apple and having something like that. And then if you take the the audio from the apple vision pro currently and can somehow make that be the uh you know what's the conduction the body election style like, oh, because that sounds incredible on the apple in prior to think IT gets enough hype.

I agree. I think that is one of the most .

impressive things. Really, really good. You can get spatial audio somehow that way without kinder, you know, making IT too much of an annoyance and public. That's that's good, I would be. And somehow IT works with your iphone in some ways, maybe like watch content that way and won't be as no disturbing to others.

And I don't know, but I would be if apple intelligence delivers on its promise, you would then have apple intelligence integrated into that device so you can have stuff like visual intelligence. And that product seems way more compelling to me right now.

yes. I mean, and then what the other version would have, some would have visual capabilities. I mean, I think that would be the one that I would be more interested in as long as it's not something that shoes away from the design of like regular glasses sort of because you know, at the end of the day, just don't really want to be looking like the center of attention all the time.

So if you have something that's a little bit more discrete that you can still do all of this stuff with and still be able to like not dissociate or detach yourself from reality in the moment that you're in, like that's what I think apple is. I mean, I thought they were and hopefully are still planning to do. But that's that's the area that I think if they can take what they've done so far and get that down into the version that we're talking about, that's where the excitement lies.

But if it's going to be this low cost version or just a chip up grade in two years and then another year or two after that for a low cost version, like no, thank you. I think by that point, and it'll just be too late, I hope i'm wrong, I don't know. But can we end on a positive note? That is our animals. And I feel like that was a bomb there. I mean, positive notice, I was very positive .

about this stuff. You like virtual display and you like the up.

I think it's very good, and i'm going to start like I this right there. I feel like people don't believe me. I bought a thing to make me use this more.

It's not that I don't like using IT. I just don't love the heavy of IT. That's the ultimately .

the biggest thing we check in. Um one decision of us two point two is actually been released um maybe early next year. We should have another conversation when we know a little bit more about the state of these s as well and also see if you've actually had a chance to use vision promote because you wanted to, not because you've to do IT for a video, or because you d test IT for a week, but because you actually want to to, because that, for me, is the key thing. The day when you say to me that you IT was such a good experience that you wanted to use, that you use that instead of another device.

Define, define, want. Because I often want to use my vision pro, but then I ultimately don't.

Well, you, when you both want to and do and do IT.

okay yes right.

Well for those .

of you who are out there listening and maybe bashing your head in because you're thinking we're absolutely insane and new user vision pro all the time, please let us know why, how, what you use your vision pro for um and then yeah for those of you who have other things to say, obviously let us know as well and what's catch everybody in the next episode.

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