Mavs Take Game 1 in Minnesota, All-NBA Results and Implications, Changes in Cleveland, and Pacers-Celtics
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And now, The Low Post.

My former colleague at two different stops, author of this book right here, The Hoop Atlas. Every basketball fan in your life is going to want this book. Kirk sent me four copies because I blurbed it. I have a text chain of lame-o dads in suburban Connecticut, and I just put a picture of the book on the text chain with Kirk's name. I said, first three respondents get it. Forty-five seconds later, three copies sold.

To the lame dads of Connecticut. That's how good this book is. Kurt Goldsberry, how are you? I'm well, Zach. It's great to be here. Thank you for blurbing my book. Thank you for just promoting my book. And thank you to the suburban dads of Connecticut for being so enthusiastic. I appreciate it. That's my demo. Those dads in Connecticut. Let's get the Father's Day gift train going. Well, look, this is a... We'll talk more about it, but it has all the things you expect from a Goldsberry special. Crazy cool graphics.

About individual players, the evolution of the league over 40, 50 years, many profiles of players that, you know, you go back. One of the things I like about them, because you go back and you revisit some of the reporting you did and some of the reporting others, others did. And you forget like.

Just seminal games, quotes, interesting interviews about Steph Curry, Manu Ginobili, Allen Iverson, the key figures of the game over the last 50 years. Michael Jordan, Dirk, over and over. We'll get to that later. But yes, the hoop atlas by Curtis. Look how pretty that is. You want that on your coffee table. Your guests are going to come to your house and say, wow, what a sophisticated sports fan you and or your spouse or your child must be.

Kirk Goldsberry, it's a pleasure to see you, my man. Yeah, man. Let's talk playoffs. There's nobody I'd rather talk basketball with on planet Earth than Zach Lowe, and there's no time of the year I'd rather talk basketball with Zach Lowe than right now. So let's get into that. It's Thursday morning, 930. So we have a nice little window until game two of the Western Conference Finals. So we're going to start there. Game one.

A defense-first, grimy, fun chess match between the Wolves at home just through a seven-game slugfest against the Nuggets that had just more swings than a playground. And the Dallas Mavericks who dispatched the Thunder in six. I picked the Thunder in seven in that series. Wrong.

I did pick the Mavs over the Clippers in the first round. Picked the Wolves in seven in this series. And the Mavs, despite a very out-of-character offensive game from them in ways that line up with just all the ways you like to look at basketball and shot spectrums, just grind out a road win over Minnesota, 30-20.

30 points for both Luka and Kyrie. Luka goes nuts in the fourth quarter, 15 points on 5 of 8 shooting. And Kirk, what I mean by out of character, 43% of the Mavs' shots in Game 1 were mid-range shots. That's their fourth most in any game, regular season, plus playoffs this season. So we're sniffing 100 games if we're not there yet for these guys.

Only 26% of their shots were threes. That's their second lowest number in every game this season. And Stan, Sam Van Gundy was talking about it on the broadcast. Reggie Miller was talking about it on the broadcast when go bear was in the pick and roll.

He was mostly, not every time, mostly dropping back. And they didn't like how that looked because it gives, you know, Luka and Kyrie can kind of prod their way into space. Got a couple of lob dunks for the Lob Brothers. We need a nickname for the Gafford lively, just smashing lobs tag team. And then they kind of poke away. And then Luka...

Kind of didn't put the Wolves away, but got the Mavs in front with a couple of long twos over that coverage. But the point of that coverage is we're going to force these guys to beat us with very tough drives and very tough mid-range shots. And we're not going to give these threes up to P.J. Washington and Kyrie on catch and shoots or Luka on catch and shoots or Josh Green on catch and shoots. And they did make it tough. Like those are tough shots. Rudy...

I mean, you saw a couple out of character plays for Luca in the game where he would get in the lane and he got a little spooked by Rudy. There was one where he had a layup and it was like, oh, I don't know if I want to shoot this and threw like a backwards lob to Gafford who could not dunk it. He was too far away to dunk it. He had to bank it off the glass.

Like all in all, the numbers suggest that Minnesota's defense was definitely good enough to win the game. But Dallas was able to manufacture enough buckets and their defense. I mean, to me, Kirk, the story of the playoffs is the Mavericks defense. This is like a 100% legit elite defense. And by hook or crook, by trade after trade after trade, I just this team is awesome. Like the Mavericks are officially an awesome championship worthy team.

I knew they'd be better when they got P.J. Washington and Daniel Gafford. I was on like the lukewarmish side of those trades and worried about the future, but somewhat excited about the present. I didn't expect this. They're so much better and more complete than I thought they were. And that was a real gut check playoff win last night. What stood out to you about I mean, where do you want to start? It was a really, really fun game.

Well, let's start with that Dallas defense. I think you're exactly right. And I always talk to you, but this time of year, I always say something I learned from you a long time ago. I'll get to that. But before the all-star break, before those trades,

The Dallas Mavericks defense, I think, ranked 19th in the NBA. It seems like a prehistoric time in our lives at this point. But, you know, that's the kind of defensive efficiency, Zach, that we learned through your reporting and analysis for years. You just can't win the NBA championship if your defense ranks 19th in the NBA. And after the trade deadline splurged and everything changed, the Mavs, over the last month of the season, possessed zero.

The best defense in the NBA. And I put that efficiency landscape up every week and I didn't know whether to believe it, but they started that Mavs logo started creeping up that ladder on the defensive efficiency train. And you start to look at their markers and it looks sustainable.

And one group of people I want to give flowers to right now after game one is this front office. If you look back in Dallas, if you look back, not just at that trade deadline, what did they do about a year ago? They brought in a guy named Derek Lively. So they have completely rebuilt the front court around Kyrie Irving and Luka Doncic. And not only have they rebuilt it, but between Lively, Washington, Gabbard, they've assembled like

One of the best defensive front courts in the playoffs. And if the Wolves want to win this series, they're going to have to do what they do. They're probably the second best defense, if not the best defense in the playoffs remaining. But I think you're exactly right. When I'm watching this Mavs team do what they've done through three rounds, now three wins away from winning this incredible Western Conference.

The story has got to start with they rebuilt the plane in the air on the defensive end of the court in a way that you and I, I don't think have ever seen a team maybe since that Rasheed Wallace trade in 2004 do in the middle of the season. Well, and they did it in the middle of the season, but like.

Something was already on the plane, like in baggage claim, and they didn't realize how valuable it was. And that's Derrick Jones Jr., who has just on a minimum contract changed the face of this team, has made enough plays on offense to be out there for 30, 35 minutes a game despite his up and down jump shot, has the primary assignment on Shea last round, gets the primary assignment on Ant this round. And I just thought...

Minnesota's offense just looked a little punch drunk the entire game. Just like kind of hazy, unclear on what their plan of attack should be, a little confused. And I think if there's a possession that to me epitomized it, it was like two minutes left in the game. I think they got to stop. And Jada McDaniels had the ball, bringing it up, kicked it back to Kat.

Cat kicks it ahead to Jaden McDaniels, kind of like in no man's land near the foul line. He drives without any kind of plan, ends up under the rim and throws this crazy backward pass that Luca intercepts to nobody. It had no chance. Ant and Mike Conley in a crunch time situation. Ant doesn't even cross half court. Neither of them touches the ball. And that to me was indicative of just a team that

For reasons largely of Dallas' making, I think you can say that they were hung over from the Nuggets series, whatever. Like, they just didn't...

They didn't come out with a lot of snap and coherence on offense. There were possessions, I think, when they showed it. But even when Ant, I mean, they talked about how Ant looked fatigued a lot during the game. I thought that was probably true. Guarding Kyrie, which is the assignment he wanted. He asked for it and he got it. Takes a lot out of you. But, you know, when they would run an Ant pick and roll or even an Ant iso and the double would come. I mean, that's the moment that I think is going to decide this series for both teams is Ant.

Minnesota's level of preparation, both ants and the other four guys on the floor to exploit when they send help at Anthony Edwards, because one thing that we know for sure at this point is Dallas's help defense is going to be perfect. They're not going to make mistakes. They're going to cover space. They're going to load here. The guy behind that guy's going to load here. All the passing lanes are going to appear cluttered. And that's why on one possession, uh,

early in the first half and got it in ISO Dallas loads perfectly. And the only pass he sees is that cross court pass to Alexander Walker in the corner. And he throws it 10 rows into the stands because he's 22 years old and he's still kind of learning. That's why you see and kind of just dribble, dribble, not sure what to do because there's no opening there. And that's, that's on him. I think sometimes he's just got to go, just go, just don't pause and go and see what happens.

And I think the key for Minnesota, if you freeze some of the possessions where Dallas just smothers their offense, when Ant gets the ball up top and they have like one and a half guys on him and it doesn't go anywhere, you'll see that all four, there'll be three guys along the baseline basically. And Rudy will be rolling to the rim and there's just no kickout valve available.

for Ant when they have the kick out valve ready and he could just make the easy read. They tend to get good, like ping, ping, ping looks out of it. And too often last night, they're just kind of walking around. Everyone's walking around. And part of a lot of that is like this Dallas defense is just really, really smart, really on a string. And by the way, that doesn't just include Luca and Kyrie, uh,

Like the other guys are dragging them along and they're, oh, they're doing their part. They're more than doing their part. And in fact, the last minute of the game,

Might have been the most consequential defensive sequence of Lucas career to date when he helped in the lane, hit Rudy Gobert on the catch when it looked like Rudy Gobert was going to have a dunk on a four or five pick and roll, stayed on Gobert. And then what happens after that is all the other Mavericks read, okay, Luke is going to stay there. I've got to go here. I've got to go here. I've got to go here. Everyone's covered. And, uh,

I think it was Conley pump fakes Lively and drives because that was the switch. Lively veered out to Conley. And Luka Doncic, who never dunks, who doesn't explode off the floor, freaking deflects the lob to go. But that wasn't a great lob. But like this defense is legit, man. Minnesota is going to have to be on an offense that was average all season. It's going to have to be focused and on point every possession because this defense is ready.

yeah i i thought tim legler on on scott van pelt broke down that exact sequence very well uh and i recommend everybody go find it uh he did a great job and and it was he called it the kudogrov lucas defensive did he ride inside i didn't see him on it i was i was looking at notes and and watching legs legs is on one right now legs is on one right now hey great minds think alike uh

But that was the first I saw that breakdown and Luka catching a lob before Rudy Gobert was not on my bingo card. I think through the superstar lens and through how a lot of people talk about basketball right now, one sort of dumb stat that people zero in on is both Kyrie and Luka had 12 made field goals and both Kat

And Ant had six. Uh, Dallas stole game one through this lens because their scores were better, uh, and more aggressive than Minnesota's were. Uh, and I think that's generally the narrative, right? People are going to say Anthony Edwards has to get better. Cat has to be better. And that's true. But what it obscures is what you're pointing out is that Sean Sweeney and Jason kid came ready to scheme and came ready to take Anthony Edwards out of the series if possible. Uh,

And some of Anthony Edwards' key stats, when you go a little bit deeper, was this really Anthony Edwards not playing up to his standards? For sure. But why didn't that happen? He was passive. 12 of his 16 shots were three-point shots.

He only tried two layups. He only tried two layups. He missed them both, and frankly, they were awkward because he was getting swarmed. One of my favorite stats from the game from the great Matt Williams is that Anthony's average shot distance last night was 22.7 feet. That's the three-point line, essentially. Wow. I didn't see that. Wow. He is out there. He's in the suburbs, bro. It reminds me of – you already brought up SVG, Stan Van Gundy –

build the effing wall remember that it feels like great that would that was the age of van gundy remember he had the uh the fake rap the the photo that everyone turned into a fake rap cover album when he was on the bike in detroit on the charity bike ride he had the flat brimmed hat surrounded by surrounded by his buddies that that was the that was peak svg

Well, he's still great on television. And, but yeah, they, they built the wall and in that Legler breakdown too, he does a good job. He calls it the Giannis treatment. What Dallas is doing two on the blocks, two at the elbows, one on the ball. And yeah,

Come and get it. Come and get it, Ant. And he couldn't come and get it last night. So one of the big themes here to what you said earlier is can Anthony Edwards find some offense here? Because if he makes six field goals in each of these games, it's not going to be a long series. They need to find ways to get him going. Obviously, Cat needs to be better offensively.

And one of the favorite sayings in the NBA is great offense beats great defense. Well, that only happened on one side of the court last night with Kyrie owning the first half of this basketball game, getting into the paint against the best defense in the regular season. And Dallas had more paint points at halftime than Minnesota had in the whole game.

So they were able to, through Kyrie's aggressiveness, remember this is a player that was getting maligned in the Oklahoma City series for taking the first half off or not being very aggressive. Again, that had something to do with OKC's defense.

But then Luka, the great offense, overcoming the great defense in the second half. And to me, the enduring image of that is Jade McDaniels on his hip. And then he's using those mid-range shots. He's not settling, but he's taking a shot that I don't think he would take in the regular season. And they're going in. So Kyrie won the first half for that team. And Luka won the second half. And the great offense beat the great defense last night. Look, I'm not going to be able to say it enough.

I was so wrong on the Mavs acquisition of Kyrie Irving. And I can excuse it away by saying, obviously, the last three to five years before that of Kyrie Irving's career had been marked by all sorts of controversies and absences from his team. Nico Harrison, who is well-connected with players through his time at Nike, whatever intel he had, whatever gut feel he had, whatever info he had,

They traded Dinwiddie and Finney Smith in a first-round pick that's out in the future for Kyrie Irving, which isn't a lot for the talent. And the talent was never the question. I said at the time with Tim McMahon, and both of us said, at this point, I just don't think I would have done any trade for him. Certainly not of the magnitude of assets they gave out. And Nico Harrison proved—Nico Harrison and Kyrie Irving have to date—

Just made everybody look like idiots because he has been outstanding on both ends of the floor. Like he's never going to be a great defender because he's a small guard, but he's a good, feisty, strong, fast defender for his position. You can't beat him up easily. And I just like everybody takes the L on that other than whoever was out there saying this is a great trade. This is going to work in Dallas. I'm sure some people said that.

Kudos to them because they were right and Nico Harrison nailed it. And this team is three wins away from the NBA finals. And like they they understood maybe because Luca put pressure on them internally, maybe because they put pressure on themselves internally that this dude Luca is this good. He's in the early stages of his prime, but that's still prime. He's good enough and we're going to do whatever it takes to

to hell with the future. We might pay a price at some point. We might not. We might not pay any price. Like if he stays here, we might not pay a hefty price at all. And we're going to undo mistakes like Grant Williams. We gave a pick swap, a pretty valuable one to get you. We're going to undo that. That didn't work. We'll give up another. We'll give up another pick and another pick swap separately. Like we're going to

And if you're going to do that, you've got to get far in the playoffs. And they have gotten farther. I mean, I gave them a puncher's chance to get this far. I thought second round was probably their ceiling after the P.J. and Gafford trades. And they're obviously obliterated that ceiling. And they're up 1-0 in the series. You mentioned Ant's offense and getting more offense. If you look at a possession, this is how the Wolves are going to have to play every single half-court possession. If you want to zero in, I'm going to leg lure this without video because this is a podcast.

5-15 of the first quarter. Ant, Rudy, pick and roll. The bread and butter of their offense. The bread and butter of Ant's offense, certainly. Lively comes to basically double, right? So there's two on the ball. Jaden McDaniels, and Ant is just to the right of the top of the arc. Jaden McDaniels is lifted 15 feet to his right. Parallel high on the wing to Ant. Right there.

As the release valve, he's ready. Like he doesn't have to come from the corner. There's no delay. He's right there. Ant sees the defense load immediate, just 15 foot little, almost a pitch to Jada McDaniels. Who's who's now has an angle to hit Rudy. Who's rolling open to the rim because lively has doubled. And he fakes the pass to Rudy and then makes the skip pass over to cat on the opposite side. And now the Mavs are scrambling because the decision-making has been fast. Cat,

pump fakes, drives, lob to Rudy, dunk, misses the dunk but is fouled. Like, that's the... Like, that... Jaden McDaniels being there versus Ant having nobody to pass it to is the difference between a possession that beats Dallas' defense and a possession that goes nowhere. They're going to have to be on it like that every single time Ant runs a pick and roll. The other thing is...

Mentioning Kyrie's defense, one benefit for Minnesota of Ant guarding Kyrie if they continue to go this way is that Kyrie is stuck guarding Ant a lot, and they didn't go there at all. They ignored it a lot, and Ant has talked, including to me before last season, about building up a postgame, building up a bully ball game. He showed snippets of it against John Morant two playoffs ago. He busted out now and then. If I'm scrounging for points, if I want to throw a different look,

at, at, uh, at Dallas. And I have that matchup. Like I'm going to kind of like scrap this, the play and go to that a few times a game and see, see what it looks like. It's got it. They got to find more shots in the paint for Anthony Edwards, whether it's the pick and roll or transition or matchups. Um, I want to go back to something you said, cause it didn't occur to me until you're talking about, uh, Nico, the four remaining front offices, uh,

Brad Stevens, Executive of the Year, Kevin Pritchard with the Halliburton deal, the Gobertrade, how many hands up are on the Gobertrade around the league for saying that's been a rollercoaster of all time? You talk about the Nuggets-Wolves series with many swings. Well, the Gobertrade's had a few too. Here we are there in the conference finals. But yeah, if it isn't for Brad Stevens, I think Nico's clearly the Executive of the Year. We talk about the DJJ, Derrick Jones Jr.,

We already went through that. But front offices matter. And I think the Final Four and this year's NBA proves it. All of these front offices have built these teams really well. I just wanted to circle back on that. I hadn't really thought about that. Tim Connelly's obviously getting a lot of recognition, Brad Stevens. But Nico and that Dallas group deserve some. I think when you talk about Anthony Edwards, and to me, my eyes were opened in those first two games in Denver.

Holy crap, this guy is here. Oh, my God. The game two blowout. If you look at his drive stat, Zach, if you look at his shot diet in those games, Zach, he went six of seven on layups and dunks in game one and nine of 12 in game two on dunks and layups. He went 0 for 2 again in this game. For me, the way I look at the game so spatially,

If Anthony Edwards has zero field goals at the rim, you're done. And maybe that's a little bit of Denver's weakness. Their Achilles heel is rim protection. And now they're playing this new look frontcourt in Dallas, where it's young bucks who can jump and rotate at much higher speeds, right?

regardless that to me is the signature indicator. Can Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves start winning the paint battle against the Dallas Mavericks? Cause last night they got their butts kicked close to the rim. Uh, and Dallas, one thing we have to point out shot like crap from downtown. They made six of what? 24 threes. They, they made sick. What is this? The nineties? What is this? The 2006 maps making six threes. Um,

No. One of the real troubling signs there is the Mavericks can go to another gear here if they start making threes. And so...

Yes, I'm circling the paint for Minnesota, Anthony Edwards and Carl Anthony Towns, by the way. And that's the indicator I'm looking at for game two. And I wouldn't be surprised if they find some offense there. Well, and can Towns, much like Denver, the Mavs are going to be content to switch smaller players onto Towns and just say, OK, beat us, beat us in the post. Like I know he continues. I mean, he was six of 20 yesterday. So I don't say you can say he played well, but he he has chill. He only had two fouls, which is like.

I mean, two fouls. Is everything okay in the world? Two fouls? Now I'm like, can you foul a couple more people? That's abnormal. I want you to foul. Can we foul four times instead of two? But he's going to get chances in the post. I also think there are moments when Gobert is out of the game. And by the way, Gobert has the number two plus minus in the entire playoffs, plus 121.

Total points. So like all the angst about Gobert, and I understand he ain't the prettiest looking player to watch. The Wolves are just way better when he's on the floor. I mean, you can look at that one game, game two, they played without him and they looked incredible. If that's dispositive to you, the other data doesn't agree. The only player ahead of Gobert in plus minus, without looking it up, do you want to guess who it is? Is it on the Minnesota Timberwolves? No.

Is it Nikola Jokic? No, total playoff plus minus. I can't do this. Jason Tatum plus 126. But when Gobert's out and Lively or Gafford has to guard a shooter, Cat or Nas Reed, I got to peck at that a little bit more than they did in the first game. See what happens on Cat pick and pop. See if Cat can slip into open space and make some plays. Yeah.

Other interesting data, by the way. Do you want me to play another guessing game with you that's not fair? Yes, I would love for the audience to further understand how bad I am at these things. Let's go. Who do you think leads the Dallas Mavericks in total plus minus for the playoffs? P.J. Washington.

No, he is. He's close. He's 14th overall in the league, right neck and neck with Luka. I'll give you one more guess and then I'll reveal the answer. I guess it's not Luka and Kyrie. Let's go with Gafford. I love Gafford.

It's the inverse of Gafford. Oh, no. Derek Lively, who was plus 19 in game one, is plus 106 in the playoffs. The only people ahead of Derek Lively are Rudy Gobert and three Celtics. Dang.

Daniel Gafford is minus 62, which is the worst on the Dallas Mavericks and minus 15 for the playoffs. None of this is to say that Daniel Gafford has been bad, that the Mavs are better off benching Gafford. Gafford has been fine. He's done his job lively. I mean, you mentioned in praising Nico Harrison. This is why I'm bringing this up.

They tanked. Everyone, you know, tisked them and clutched their pearls. Oh, my gosh, a tanking team. It was a little gross. It was a little gross. And by the way, Luka didn't seem psyched about it either. It wasn't just the pearl clutchers in the media. And they got Derek Lively. And this dude is absolutely sensational. And one of the things I love about him is...

Stan is on the broadcast last night calling for the Wolves to blitz Luka more. And if you watch round by round, team by team,

Teams are much more comfortable blitzing the Mavs when Gafford is the screener than they are when Lively is the screener. And you ask yourself, why is that? And it's because they know Gafford is not nearly as comfortable and dexterous with the ball in space and making plays. If you blitz in Lively, now he had a traveling violation last night late in the game, but for the most part, he is making the right read. He's comfortable finishing over small guys after one and two dribbles. That dude has been...

I don't know how much he can broaden his offensive game. It's TBD, but that dude is going to be...

even if he never shoots jump shots, if he never becomes like any stretchy, whatever he is going to be like the apex of what that player type is. I think, yeah, dude, I love that pick last year on a, on a draft show. And I was all, this is exactly what the Mavericks need. Right. But at the time I didn't know he was much more than a rim protector in size and young springy size.

But the play, I had this circled in my notes, too. The one play that really caught my eye in the second quarter last night was Nas Reed did exactly what he was talking about. Came up and sort of showed a blitz Luka on this two-man action with Derek. And then, so what does Luka do? And this is all the way up at that target center decal, almost at midcourt on the side. And then...

Luca fires a bounce pass and Lively catches it at the three-point line on the right wing. And I'm like, all right, this is kind of the outcome I think that Minnesota would want to see here. But Luca hits him with that pass. He proceeds to drive it to the rim.

Cat comes to help and he rotates perfectly, but lively Eurostep sim switches hands and goes up with his left hand and finishes over an all-star defender. And it was a great play for any big man. It was a great play for any big man. And to your point, I don't think Daniel Gafford has that in his bag, but it's an incredible play. And we don't remind us of the audience of this enough. This dude's a rookie. He's 20 years old. I think you were hitting at this.

What's he going to be when he's 25? What's he going to be when he's 28? This looks like one of the triumphant draft picks of the last year's draft. And again, a big reason why that two-man game, which is now the centerpiece for the Mavs attack with Luka, is even harder to defend. This is a very, very good player by any standard, Zach.

But next to Luka Doncic, the pick-and-roll savant, this is almost a dream partner to have for Jason Kidd in that offense. A couple other notes. A couple Minnesota lineup things that I didn't love and are just to watch going forward. I never like when they sit Ant and Cat at the same time unless there's a foul trouble reason for it, and I don't believe there was last night.

The lineup of Conley, Alexander Walker, McDaniels, Reed, Gobert was minus four in six minutes. I think they played mostly in the second quarter, maybe a snippet of the fourth. I just think one of those guys has got to be out on the floor to be the centerpiece of the offense, and I don't like when they sit both of them at the same time. They also went with the ginormous lineup.

That has neither Alexander Walker nor Conley. So, Ant McDaniels, slow-mo, who had a little slow-mo explosion in the first half. Your Spurs soul must have enjoyed that. And then two big guys, Nas and Cat. It's a huge lineup. It's interesting. It could do some interesting things. It was minus three in seven minutes. I just...

Given that Minnesota's issue on offense, when they have issues on offense, and to their credit, their offense has been very good in the playoffs, is sort of collective ball handling and decision making. I know that Alexander Walker is not like a traditional point guard, but I just get a little nervous with that group. Can we shout out a couple of random plays that I would like to highlight that will probably get forgotten a little bit to history? Heck yeah, dude. First...

um the ant turnover at the end of the first half is like a disastrous win probability swing where they're up 62 56 they can run the whole clock down there's the shot clock is off and he tries to throw this cross court pass to i believe i don't know if it was conley or alexander walker with rudy setting a flare screen with like seven seconds left and he throws it just 10 feet over their heads turnover five seconds left

And you just I just knew like this is going to be a basket for Kyrie. Kyrie's going to race up for it and he gets to and one and he makes the free throw. And all of a sudden your worst case scenario should be you're up six going into the half and now you're up three going into the half. I don't know. I'd like to go to the win probability play by play to see what swing that is. That's a big meaningful swing. The second one is this is the one that might be lost to history.

The step-back three Luka hit with like 3 minutes and 10 seconds left in the game off an offensive rebound by Lively. With Anthony Edwards, like I rewatched it four times this morning. I don't think you could play better defense on Luka than Anthony Edwards does. He closes out, stops on a pump fake. Luka takes one dribble to his side. He's like in Luka's jersey, contesting in his face. And Luka just drills this three that gives the Mavs the lead. I'm like, that is...

Luka, we know, is now the king of the step-back three. Harden has ceded that throne to Luka Doncic. Go back and watch that shot. That is a crazy degree of difficulty shot. This dude is so freaking good. He got on one in the fourth quarter last night, and he has not gotten on that many super hot streaks in the playoffs by his standards. It was fun watching him kind of get rolling and say, oh yeah, that's right. I've been a little slump, but I'm still Luka.

Great offense beats great defense, like we said earlier. And, yeah, I had that in my notes, too, that Luka is getting his shots against the –

of perimeter defense that Minnesota just trots out there on a nightly basis. You know, Jaden McDaniels was born to play defense in the NBA in 2024. This dude is incredible. And, you know, Luka gets him on his hip, gets him to the elbow, changes his speeds and gets a shot. And then the step backs against athletes like Anthony Edwards is...

It is simply incredible. And I know it's a cliche, but it's important. Good offense can beat great defense or great offense can be great defense. And again, one of the only six threes that Dallas made. This game could have gone either way. Luka made the plays down the stretch to win it. Minnesota can come back and win game two, right?

But they have to also note that Dallas was not very good from the three-point line. I think Minnesota won the three-point battle by 30 points or something. And so they have to also acknowledge this game might not have been that close if Dallas goes 9-24 or whatever. So, you know...

I think Minnesota's fine if we've learned anything in these playoffs. It's please don't overreact to game ones. No, no. Particularly for a team that's just won three games in Denver at altitude. I think this is going to be a long series. I picked Wolves in seven. Both of these – I think there are three teams left in the NBA playoffs –

With apologies to the Indiana Pacers who can win the championship. I don't think the Pacers can win eight playoff games against this level of competition, though they looked really good in game one. We'll get to that. I think this is a true heavyweight battle. Now, you mentioned you. Thank you for bringing up the Dallas offense, which we started the pod with.

We spent most of this time talking about the Woes offense trying to find a rhythm against this just locked in Dallas defense. Any notes for the other end of the floor? Like we talked about how they didn't get any threes. They had to make a lot of tough twos. What interests you about the Mads offense as we head into game two?

I kind of said it earlier, but I didn't really hit the point home with the stat that I'm about to use is that in that first half, you know, this is Rudy Gobert and this ferocious Minnesota defense that I and both Ryan and Ursula, I think coincidentally described as the 2000 Baltimore Ravens of the NBA. Yeah.

The Mavericks scored 44 paint points in the first half. Zach, that's tied for the most by any team in a playoff half in the last 25 years. That's crazy. And Kyrie did most of that damage. The smallest dude on the court in the teeth of the best defense in the NBA all year long.

Kyrie and Luca won this game inside the arc. They also were very good at the free throw line. If you, if you look at that stat, they didn't miss their free throws. Which by the way, I believe they were 27th and free throw shooting in the regular season. So, I mean, they won by three. They were 16 of 17 at the line. The wolves, I think, or 11 of 18 small thing.

You know, you just kind of, you might zone out, check your phone during free throws, whatever. That was a big deal in that game. Yeah. Every high school coach in America is sitting here. See, kids, look at this. This part of the box score jumps out. But yeah, the game could have gone either way. But I think that first half, I had Kyrie, who had not been a great, explosive, aggressive scorer in the previous round.

comes in and lands that haymaker in the first half. And I think that's the signature stat. And I don't think they're going to repeat that. But to me, that's what Dallas offense did in game one. One thing I'm looking at as we go to game two is

I liked every look they got when they put Cat in the pick and roll. He's guarding P.J. Washington, and I thought Cat's pick and roll defense was, even by his standards, a little helter-skelter last night. Just like legs going in different directions, off balance, taking the wrong angle. But they've decided, clearly...

that if it's Luka, P.J. Washington, they're going to essentially blitz Luka with Kat, and P.J. Washington is popping to three, and he's wide-ass open. Now, Stan mentioned on the broadcast that these are not corner threes. These are above-the-arc threes. Well, you can make them corner threes. You can reorient the floor accordingly.

So he's flared to the corner. But, you know, I understand he's been hot from the corners in the playoffs and cold otherwise. In his general track record of three-point shooting, he's about as good above the arc as he is from the corners. And you saw at the end...

He would catch it open and Minnesota was starting to think, just in case do we need to send somebody flying up from the corner to get in his vision or rotate to him and get our defense in rotation. And if you watch some of those plays, sometimes the guy in the corner, one pass away, nearest corner to P.J. Washington was Derrick Jones Jr. In that case, send the rotator.

Then there was a play where they organize it. So the guy in that corner was Kyrie Irving or who pick a different shooter, but Kyrie specifically, that becomes a dicier proposition. And given how unsteady cat looked in space in the first game, I'm pecking at that a little bit more if I'm the Mavs and for Minnesota, I forgot to mention this. I don't think they went at Luca enough one-on-one. And I say that knowing that Luca held his own when they did Luca has generally held his own in the playoffs. Um,

At the very least, I want to make him work on defense. So maybe he might be a little fatigued at the end of the games. I thought that was a place that didn't go enough. But this is going to be a really fun chess match series. A lot of little subplots, a lot of star talent. And Dallas lands the first punch. And just that's a playoff win, man. That's a tough-ass playoff win by the Mavericks. Any parting thoughts on this before we change topics? No, I agree on what Luke is saying. I think the –

The Wolves were 10 of 15 when they shot against Luka as the closest defender last night. To your point, that number, when you're 10 of 15, why aren't you 15 of 20? Why are you going at that? And I think they have the athletic advantage there. Luka made, as you pointed out earlier, two great defensive plays down the stretch. He is not

somebody who's bad at defense but in a great defense he's one of the weak links and i think when you factor in the fatigue and possible injury here you have to look at attacking luke donchik more often in game two with your athletes if you're the minnesota timberwolves and to that point another reason i would peck at cat a little bit more if i were the mavericks is you might get him in foul trouble blit having him blitz and run around like in that that could help you too

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Tyrese Halliburton indeed made third team All-NBA, making himself eligible for the Supermax, a $41 million win for Tyrese Halliburton. And I was going to say an FU to the 65 game rule, but I guess not because he played in 65 games, clearly for this purpose, sometimes even playing the minimum 20 minutes a game to qualify as a game coming back from injury. He made it. Jalen Brown did not make it.

uh despite receiving one more third team or third place as they call it all nba vote than devin booker but devin booker received seven second team all nba votes so his point total trumped jalen brown and domantas sabonis very strong showing i did not have him on my three fake all nba teams um got almost as many total points as steph curry lands on the third team um

Sabonis received 51 third-team votes, 16 second-team votes, and one first-team vote. And I don't think the ballots have come out yet. And maybe I shouldn't talk because I didn't have a ballot this year. There is a Sabonis fanboy who's giving him first-team or fanwoman. I don't know who it is. Who's giving him first-team votes just about everywhere, including all defense, defense.

And a top five MVP vote, I think. Which is like, you can kind of like, okay, fine. But like, I want to know who this is. And if it's the same person every time. Because if you're putting Damanis Sabonis first team all NBA. That means you are not putting...

SGA, Jokic, although they were unanimous. Luka, who was second team on one ballot. Giannis or Tatum or Brunson on first team. And you're putting Sabonis. It's an interesting, interesting choice. Okay, Tyrese in, Jalen out. Tatum first team over Brunson by a slim-ish margin.

Let's just read the teams and I'll give you the reaction. First team is Shea, Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Tatum. The only suspense was Tatum or Brunson for the fifth spot. Second team is Brunson, Ant, Durant, Kawhi, Anthony Davis. That was exactly my second team except I had LeBron over Ant. Third team was LeBron, Curry, Sabonis, Halliburton, Booker. My third team was Edwards, Curry, Booker, Halliburton, Jalen Brown.

I don't have any real strong feelings about Jalen Brown not making it. I thought it was very borderline between him and Sabonis and Halliburton. Looking at those three teams, anything that surprised you? Anything that stood out to you? Anything that enraged you? What's your gut?

Nothing enraged me. The Sabonis thing, I think, is the easiest sort of thread to pull on. Jalen Brown, Tyrese Maxey, maybe you can make the case there. The thing that jumps out to me and something I put in my book when I was writing it last summer is for the top five guys in the International Bliers Act, this is...

And if Embiid was healthier, you could see all five of these spots as soon as next year going to foreign players. That's crazy. That is crazy for those of us who grew up in the 90s and 2000s. So that's one thing that jumped out. Also, all of the first team under 30 years old. This is a young man's game. And along the same lines, one of the craziest stats from this year.

is LeBron James is now the youngest person to ever make an All-NBA team and LeBron James is now the oldest person to ever make an All-NBA team, which is a credit to his incredible sustained greatness. And just another note there, but for me, if I'm looking at this list and the kind of names that we're seeing on the first team, the takeaway is the best players on planet Earth, Zach Lowe,

are not growing up in the United States. And with Victor Weminyama coming, there's a chance that this just continues to, and I think it's great, by the way. And Jalen Brunson and Jason Tatum and Anthony Davis and Anthony Edwards, there's no shortage of American talent, but it's being joined at the very top of this league by an increasingly diverse group of superstars that are making the league just more and more talent rich.

Wemba Nyama, by the way, received two second-team votes and five third-team votes and was fifth total in the also-receiving-votes list behind Jalen Brown. Paul George only receiving 16 votes total of all third-team is a very small amount. Then Maxie, then Gobert, then Wemba. All trailing, of course, no-brainer, first-team All-NBA selection, DeMontis. My reaction is this.

I had Jalen Brown over Sabonis for the last spot. I don't feel particularly strongly about it. There was part of me that was like, in my gut, I just kind of think positionally and defensively, Jalen Brown's versatility in his position and his three-point shooting and his defense trumps Sabonis' advantage in decision-making and playmaking.

I also think Jalen Brown is probably a better one-on-one score than Sabonis. That's kind of the dirty little secret about Sabonis is he's only a so-so post-score. People think he's a brute, and he is. But when you put him against a guy his size, he's kind of inefficient or mid-efficient. And just like –

I felt okay just being like Boston should get a second guy if all things are equal. I thought Halliburton should have made it on the merits. And for me, again, I didn't have a real ballot this year, but he was on my third team.

It was not a, oh, he deserves the money or this is the 65 game rule is going to wrong him. I've talked a lot about how I don't think the 65 game rule should apply to 13 all NBA specifically. But I just think, yes, here was my thinking. Yes, he was not the same guy after late January when he had the calf or I think he's a calf hamstring, whatever it is, not the same guy.

Before that, for something like 30 to 35 games. So not that far from half the season. He was playing at a first team all NBA level. Oh, for sure. In contention for that fifth first team spot. So if you have 30 to 35 games where you're that, and then you have 35 games where you're good to very good. Like a little bit sub all-star probably or maybe borderline all-star. It is the East.

God bless the East. 11 of the 15 were West, too. I also had that. So it is the East. That's a great point. That adds up to me to a third-team All-NBA season because the most important standout thing you can do is be so goddamn good that you're in the first-team All-NBA and MVP ballot conversation for a sustained period of time. And he was, and he's starting to look more like Tyrese Halliburton again, which is why this series against Boston...

is a little more promising um can i ask you one question on this before we move on yes i have other questions for you do you think the 65 game rule here we are today after these announcements do you think our friends at the league office could have anticipated that tyrese halliburton probably playing when he would not have normally played because it's tied up in the financial incentives that i think have bothered you a little bit bothered me a little bit

Do you think that they're happy with the 65 game rule and how it manifested this sort of strange arc of Tyrese Halliburton's season? I think they probably are. I mean, I've talked to tons of people about it. I think they're interested to see where it goes. I think they know that the union is not going to drop this and that this is going to be a fight going forward. But I think their point would be,

The idea is for players when they're mostly healthy to play, when they can play to play. And so if Tyrese Halliburton could play at 80% ability and it was safe for him to do so, well, that's kind of the point of the rule. That makes me a little nervous because,

For the same reason I went off about the Jared Allen stuff last week or earlier this week when I just hated the anonymous reporting that, oh, Jared Allen, essentially implying that he wasn't tough enough to play in the playoffs when he could have gotten an injection and this and that. Okay, like, easy for you to say. You know how Jared Allen feels. I don't know how Tyrese Halliburton's leg feels. I don't know how scared...

Tyrese Halliburton is, no matter what the training and medical staff and his own medical experts, I'm sure CAA supplies them with their own medical experts. No matter what they're telling him about, well, if you play X, Y, and Z is likely or unlikely to happen. I don't know how afraid he is of like that calf popping on a wrong step because it's already a little bit compromised. Like that's, that's real, that's,

Like I was talking to somebody last night with the Pacers about Victor Oladipo. Like that dude's out of the league. And I'm not saying he played when he shouldn't have or anything like that, but like that's how fast it can happen. Like one injury, another injury, like he's gone. He was a second team all NBA player. Feels like yesterday. It was not yesterday. It was several years ago. But anyway, that's, I don't know the answer to that question, but I don't think 65 games should apply to third team all NBA. I did have a, did you have another question before I put you on the spot?

No, put me on the spot because I want to keep up my streak of doing terribly on being put on the spot. Well, this is just an opinion question and I gave you a heads up about it, so it's not totally on the spot. I had on my fake MVP ballot, I had Brunson fifth ahead of Tatum. On my fake all NBA ballot, I had Tatum first team ahead of Brunson.

And my basic argument was I think Tatum is just a little bit better than Brunson head to head. But Brunson, because of all the injuries on the Knicks, because the Knicks are not as loaded with top tier talent as the Celtics, was more quote unquote valuable to his team.

And I said in writing my all NBA picks that kind of put it this way. If I had to choose which of the two players to start a team with from scratch, I'm choosing Tatum. He's bigger. He's more versatile. He's a better defensive player. And then Jalen Brunson made the playoffs his own personal playground and scored 40 points every single game. And Jason Tatum has been very good. He has the number one plus minus in the playoffs. He's been very good.

His three-point shot has been a little shaky. His decision-making, even in game one against the Pacers where he won the game for them at overtime, before that was like, can we just bag the 18-foot fadeaways over Aaron Neesmith with 17 on the shot clock? Can we just not do that anymore? I know it's only four or five possessions a game, but it's not working, and it hasn't worked for a lot of time now. Just drive. When you drive, good stuff happens.

And so I wanted to put it to you now that we've seen the playoffs. If the same question, if you had to pick one of those guys to start your franchise with, are you going Tatum or Brunson?

I'm going Tatum. But before anybody gets too mad at me, I happily, if I'm the Portland Blazers or the Charlotte Hornets, I'm happily taking either one. So let me just say that before I get into it. That is implied. The people who are going to get angry about this, like obvious, obvious. It's like when we do like Giannis or Luka on TV, I'm like, well, I'll pick second. Like I'm cool. Like I'll pick, I'll pick in the Durant spot. Like I'm cool with either one.

I had some of the same notes as you. Size really matters. And it's one of the things I'm going to predict is coming next in the NBA. But he's been first team all NBA multiple times. He's lived in the conference finals. He's proved he can get it done against the best players in the league. But the biggest single reason is that he's an impactful defender who can guard virtually anyone in the NBA. Now we can go through a list of seven or eight guys, mostly Joel Embiid types that nobody can guard.

But Jason Tatum on that side of the court is a very powerful weapon. And indeed, the Boston Celtics, since he's been there, have been a very good defense. So size matters. Defense matters. And for those reasons, I will take Jason Tatum. I hate to pick against Jalen Brunson. Jalen Sanity took the league by storm. I was right there with my friends at Madison Square Garden, just awestruck and just impressed.

Jalen Brunson is unquestionably emerging as one of the better leaders and culture setters in this league. And that's a great thing to start an NBA team with. But I really believe that the league is bound to get bigger and longer as we enter the second half of this decade, Zach. And I think teams like the Wolves,

And teams like the Boston Celtics sort of epitomize where this is going. The Jade McDaniels types, the Nikhil Alexander Walker types. And in a world where perimeter skill is sort of democratized to all shapes and sizes, the role of smaller players in this league

is going to come up on trial, in my opinion, in the next few years. And unfortunately for Jalen, he's a smaller player. And I think whether it's fair or not, that's a real significant weakness in this dumb sport that we're obsessed with. And that's the reason I'm going to take Tatum ultimately over Brunson. I would also take Tatum. I will say, I was talking to someone, I'm in Boston, I was talking to someone either at the game or at dinner last night, I can't remember, about this very subject. If you're small...

you better be strong. Like at least Jalen Brunson is strong.

We were talking about Peyton Pritchard, actually. That was the conversation. Peyton Pritchard is small, but he weighs more than you think, and he's strong. And you can't just push him around the way that you can push other small guards around. But I would also take Tate. Boston's biggest strength as a team is that their best offensive players are also very good defensive players. And so they don't have to compromise one side to help the other. We do have some breaking news. Are you ready for some breaking off-season news, Kurt Goldsberry? Heck yeah. Let me know. Woj!

Soothsayer of NBA news reports two minutes ago that the Cleveland Cavaliers in the least surprising coaching decision of the year have fired JB Bickerstaff. This is the first domino in what is a seismic coming off season for the Cleveland Cavaliers who barely squeaked by the Orlando Magic in the first round and then amid a bunch of injuries put up an honorable fight against Boston in the second round losing in five.

Donovan Mitchell is eligible for an extension. Whether he takes it or not is going to be the pivot point on everything else that happens in Cleveland with Darius Garland, with the two big guys, with everything. But the coach was always going to be the first decision. The buzz for the entire year was that JB Bickerstaff was on wobbly ice. Yeah.

And I for various reasons, I think X's and O's wise, he was just OK, like just could not figure out that offense when they were healthy. And they there was just sort of a malaise around the Cavs top to bottom for most of the season, other than that one stretch where they went 17 and one and Garland and Mobley were out for some of it, not all of it, but some of it.

in which they were creative and shot threes the way JB Bickerstaff wanted them to shoot. But given how overmatched they looked against New York and how I think underwhelming this playoff run looked and some of the murmurs you heard about the relationship between some of the players and JB Bickerstaff, this is not surprising. First of all, any reaction – I mean, I think JB – look, all these coaches –

The biggest dumb take you can have in the NBA is this coach sucks. This coach is dumb. Like I saw some column calling Darvin Ham dumb. Like none of these coaches are dumb. You don't become a head coach of an NBA team by being dumb or whatever. I think he can play a good, valuable role on a team. But nothing I saw was like –

particularly inspiring. Do you have any reaction to this before we move on to other? Yeah, it's not surprising, but this is a heck of a job. In my opinion, we talked about one of the sort of biggest kind of boring things that's happening in the NBA right now, Zach, that should affect everybody is the Eastern Conference is there to be had at a level of the Western Conference just isn't. There's a lot of crowded,

teams at the top of the Western Conference. Yeah, even the Pacers are like, I'm in Boston with the Pacers. They're like, we're in the conference finals. This is kind of cool. Yeah, you look at the second round of the Western Conference playoffs, those look like four potential champions to me. And so you don't see that in the East necessarily. But what I like about the Cleveland job is that even if there's a trade demand, even if there is

These are really good tradable players. You could build a different team and you could build a path forward here

Usually when a coach gets fired, you walk into a really bad, bad team building situation of some kind. This is not the case in Cleveland. I, over the last few years, have been in love with the Cleveland Cavaliers for multiple weeks at a time. They've shown glimpses of being one of the most dominant statistical teams in the NBA. And again,

It hasn't happened, but that's rare for a coaching opening to even have, oh, if we could just reclaim what we had in February of 2023, we can do this. Or if Donovan Mitchell asks out, imagine all the pieces we could get back and build around Darius Garland, Evan Mobley, and Jared Allen.

This is a good job by a recently fired coach standard. And I'm really curious, and I throw it back to you, who they're going to get to fill this. Because this is a serious job opening for the Cleveland Cavaliers as an organization. It is indeed. I'm just looking to see what reporting has come out about possible candidates for the job. I suspect we'll hear a lot of the same names. Loge is reporting...

Golden State, Kenny Atkinson is one candidate to monitor. He coached Jared Allen and Karis LeVert to the playoffs with the Nets. When Woj tells you that there's one candidate to monitor, that means there's one candidate to really, really monitor. I think Kenny Atkinson is a really good coach. I thought he was scapegoated in Brooklyn and fired for mostly ridiculous reasons. I think he's a good coach.

Hasn't proven himself as a playoff head coach. Like that's a big, that's a big question. And to your point, like this is a team that has playoff ambitions, right? Um, as for Mitchell, you know, Wendy, Wendy and I, we've, we've both mentioned the teams that are going to be, that would like to offer their trade offers for Donovan Mitchell. Um,

Houston emerged. I think the Athletic mentioned Houston this week. I think that's true. I think they would be interested. I'm not sure how interested, and I'm not sure what the package would be, but they're like, just keep us on the line. Keep us on the line. But there's a lot of teams. Lakers, Heat, Nets, on and on. I'd pitch the Pelicans as a team that theoretically makes sense. I don't know what their interest level would be. Wendy said this earlier this week. I think it was on GetUp.

The intel on Donovan Mitchell and what he wants to do is like wildly all over the place. Everybody you talk to says something a little bit different. So it's a big fat I don't know for me. What I have said is I think there is like close to a 0% chance. I could be wrong. Maybe I should say 5% to 10% chance that Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell are both on the Cavaliers next season.

One way or another, whether that's Mitchell extending, whether that's Mitchell asking for a trade, I don't know what's going to happen, but that's the first big domino of the season. Okay, we got some breaking news. Not that surprising. I mean, you know, look, I can see JB Biggerstaff saying, well, that's not fair. Like, we made the mandate of winning a playoff series.

We got smoked every road game in that playoff series was not super inspiring. And then we just couldn't we couldn't put our team out there against Boston in the second round. And, you know, also they could have avoided Boston in the second round if they had any courage. Excuse my language and not tanked the last game of the season to get into the sea that they got. Ryan Reynolds here from it mobile with the price of just about everything going up during inflation. We thought we'd bring our prices down.

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At Sierra, discover top workout gear at incredible prices, which might lead to another discovery. Your headphones haven't been connected this whole time. Awkward. Discover top brands at unexpectedly low prices. Sierra, let's get moving. Pacer Celtics. Pacer Celtics. The game tips off in nine hours or something, so let's not go too deep on it because by the time we go too deep on it, it will be...

By the time people listen to this, it will be like happening. Obviously a devastating loss in game one for the Pacers. And as many people have said, it felt like one of those playoff series, the most recent of which might be Nets Celtics two years ago when the Celtics win on Tatum's buzzer beating layup on a fantastic pass from Smart.

where it feels like the underdog is in a position to win the game and just needs to win the game. And when they don't, you worry, is the whole series now slipping away from them? I actually thought Indiana played really well. Now, other than the 21 turnovers, including like 17 bizarre ones late in the game. I think Boston had legitimate problems with their half-court offense and their transition offense when they didn't turn the ball over. When they got shots up, I thought Boston...

Didn't have like an enormous amount of answers for a lot of what the Pacers did. I just said to you, give me, give me one thing you're looking for adjustment, whatever area of the game that's interesting to you in game two tonight. I'm looking at Tyrese Halliburton. I mean, he's one of my favorite young players in this whole league. He had one of the worst stretches he's ever had in the NBA to, to close game one. And, um,

I expect him to be like a Chris Paul character in this league for a long time. Just if he's on your offense, you have a very good offense. And like the Celtics, we already said, they have a great defense. I think Tyrese Halliburton is going to be a really good

big piece of game too as well. He could come out and we don't know him well enough as a player to know what we're going to see from him emotionally. But if he comes out and has the best game he can have, they can steal game too and go back.

I think I tend to believe everybody else. That was your chance. That was your chance. You turned the ball over. You shot the ball really well. Boston didn't play that well. And obviously you were up by three points with 10 seconds left with, with the ball in your hands and you couldn't run a timeout. I think Rick Carlisle needs to be better too. At the end of those games, he admitted as much. He owned it. He owned it. But yeah. So I, you know, I think,

I expect Boston to win. And it just feels like a young team learning a hard lesson there in game one. But I'm looking for Tyrese Halliburton. It's sort of a cliche. Is he going to respond? Which Tyrese Halliburton is going to show up, Zach? I don't have a lot of X's and O's here because that was not a statistical game. That was an emotional game. That was an emotional loss. How are you going to bounce back as an emotional leader of a basketball team, Tyrese? You know, obviously, there are a couple turnovers late in the game.

including two by Tyrese that were not great. The one where he just lost the ball, dribbled the ball off. I don't know what he, I can't remember what he dribbled it out of, just dribbled it out of the mound. And then Drew Holiday just took his lunch money on another one. The play that I, to Bill Simmons and Kevin O'Connor's credit, they talked about it a lot in there. I was listening to their podcast while I was doing my old man workout at the hotel yesterday, just pumping that elliptical, baby. Just old, just old. Yeah, yeah. Look at me. I used to be an athlete.

Now I'm this guy. And this is like a litmus test of, I think, there are some coaches who would have liked this shot. I know that for sure. There are some coaches who would have hated this shot. There are some analysts who would have loved this shot and hated this shot. The turnovers are one thing. They get the ball back with about a minute left after Halliburton blocks Derek White's three from behind. They're up three. I think it's 115-112, something like that.

And Tyrese, with a minute left in the game, up three, and 15 on the shot clock, takes a step back three over Al Horford and misses. Watching in real time, I thought, oh my God, I can't believe he took that shot with 15 on the shot clock. They're ahead by three. They could get down to 45 seconds. And then maybe you get an offensive rebound. Maybe you get fouled if you go to the rim. Maybe you get fouled. You haven't gotten any free throws the entire goddamn game. But maybe this would be the one where someone goes to the rim and gets fouled.

I do know some coaches, though, who would say, I don't mind going for the kill shot there. I don't even mind that it was early in the shot clock. You make that shot, you're up six, and all of a sudden you look like a genius for having the courage to take it. I didn't like it. I didn't like it. I'm just – I might be too clock conservative. Didn't like that shot. Probably the majority are with me, so this is not a hot take at all. But I know some coaches would say, I'm cool with that. Yeah.

I was not cool with that. I was not cool with it. I also listened to that podcast with our old boss, Bill and our friend Kevin. But one thing I think that's, it's relevant to that conversation that didn't get brought up too much is like this team plays fast. They have a personality. They have a DNA and it involves the accelerator on, on, on the car and they press it down over and over again. They don't wait till there's one second on the shot clock very often. And,

And I'm not criticizing that. I'm just noting that Zach, is this the equivalent of a football team that runs a spread offense and gets to the playoffs and can't run the ball in the fourth quarter to kill the clock? Um, maybe do they not have that sort of take a deep breath? Here's our slow half court action that we go to in this situation. Uh,

And again, it's a young team. But one thing, yeah, it's not lost on me that this is the fastest team in the playoffs. They play hard, they play fast, and you're asking them to all of a sudden change that DNA and milk the clock. Two...

To my earlier point, Rick Carlisle needs to have that. They need to have the equivalent of the running game in that moment. They need to have the, okay, we're going to bleed this to five and we have to have a post-up action or a Pascal iso or something that gets that free throw line jumper at least. But I didn't like the shot. I just think it's a young team that plays fast, not really recognizing the strategic power of that moment. Just two things for me that I'm looking at in this game.

Much was made of Tatum's plus minus in the game and how bad Boston's offense looked when Tatum was off the floor. He was plus 20 and they won by five. Do the math. I thought that part of that was they sat White and Tatum at the same time and they were minus nine in four minutes with Drew Holiday, Jalen Brown, Peyton Pritchard, Sam Hauser, and Al Horford. And I just think without both White and Tatum and Porzingis,

They just don't have enough creativity on offense. And I understand that Joe Mazzulla probably wants to have White and Tatum together as much as possible. I don't like when they both sit together. The other thing I'm interested in is Al Horford on defense. And another thing that's going to be highlighted with Porzingis out is

They just couldn't find a good place to put him in this game. If Miles Turner is going to shoot 45% on threes, that's a big, big deal. And by the way, Miles Turner, either roll or pop for three. No more popping for twos. You're too good of a three-point shooter to do that. Pascal Siakam, you're not that good of a three-point shooter. Pop to two, that's fine. I think Siakam has been a little too jittery and quick for Horford.

And he wasn't good on switches. I don't really know what the solution is. I know Simmons and others are calling for Tatum at the five. Maybe we see, I wouldn't shock me if we saw a glimpse of Boston going with Pritchard holiday, white Tatum Brown or some variation of that. I don't love that. It's hard to do that when you haven't played that way the whole year. But that's the other thing I'm interested in is how Al Horford looks on defense and can he make enough threes? But if I had to make a prediction for tonight, I think Boston wins the,

Not in a blowout. Like I think a lot of people are anticipating like the 20 point blowout after the demoralizing game one loss and maybe that's what happens. I'll say Boston wins by like nine, like not a blowout, but not, not totally up in the air with a minute or two to go.

Yeah, I think I'm on the same page there. I do think that Indiana has a chance still, depending on how they respond to this awful, one of the most painful playoff losses. But I do want to circle back to the Horford point because it's excellent.

Al Horford deserves a lot of positive attention for how he's been able to extend his career into this phase in Boston, but they're leaning on him too much. And to your point, these minutes are racking up. Chris tops are racing to get him back. Ports are game four. If I understand correctly, they're targeting potentially, potentially. Um,

And they need that because right now the solution is throw more Al Horford out there and every defense is putting him in more and more actions. As you mentioned, like the Halliburton shot over him was not an accident. They're just isolating him over and over and over again. So it's not just simply minutes. He is playing minutes, like defending every trip down.

uh, as the focal point of Indiana's attack. So I agree with the other people who've said, can we find a lineup that doesn't have Al Horford while we're trying to get to this Chris stops return? Um, and I think they need to do that in game two. Why not? Um, you know, Jason Tatum, I already brought it up with the Brunson conversation. That's a giant person. He is a much taller person than many small ball fives. Uh,

he can rebound, he can protect the rim. Give it a shot, man, especially if you're in a comfortable situation in this game. I want to conclude by giving you a chance to talk about this book, The Hoop Atlas by Kurt Goldsberry. What is the subtitle here? Mapping the Remarkable Transformation of the Modern NBA. I've read a lot of it. It is engrossing. It's beautiful to look at. But here's how I'm going to frame this. I want you to talk about one chapter of

One segment, one chart, something that you feel like maybe you haven't gotten to talk about as much in promoting the book. That's just one of your like pet, man, I love this little thing that's in here. I love this five page segment or I love this chart. One of your pet things that is sort of exemplary of what people will get when they purchase this book.

Well, thank you, Zach. And you blurred the book and people get what you said earlier. You see a Kirk book, you think a lot of charts and stats and illustrations by the great Aaron Dana, that's all in there. There's a love letter to Manu Ginobili that I almost want to use because we both love Manu. But instead, I'm going to choose my favorite chapter, which is about how Stephen Curry practices.

and how I was able to go watch Stefan work out in one-on-one situations with his trainer, Brandon Payne, in Palo Alto, and how they use technology and really innovative technologies or practice strategies to build Stefan's game. I'll give you a couple examples. One is

They use a sensor called NOAA that hangs down above the rim and looks at where the ball enters the rim very specifically. So where the center of the basketball crosses the 10 foot plane. And so Stefan will make 80% of his threes in an average workout. And one of the things that he did over the last 10 years is use this sensor to shrink the target. So some of those makes are unacceptable.

So he really only counts it as a make if he gets the center of the basketball near the center of the bullseye. I do the same. I hold myself to the same standard, by the way. But if you're wondering how Stefan continues to be so good and so much better, I think this chapter does a great job of illustrating that he has made his shooting workouts better.

more advanced and more competitive with himself than anybody else. And then the other thing they do is, is they've come up with all this coded language or how they describe his ball handling moves and his angles. So they use a clock face to help them figure out where the shot's going to come from. And it changed the way I watch Stephen Curry, uh,

So he doesn't know what shot he's going to get to within three seconds. You imagine Stefan breaking down somebody on the perimeter. He doesn't know where he's going to shoot. He's watching everything from the nose of their hips to their shoes. And he has this read and react framework that he's worked on with brain pain that in

And there's some great examples in the book against Grant Williams and Al Horford in the 2022 finals where they say, the defender always gives me the answer. The defender lets me know where the shot comes from. And that's awesome. And it was really cool how they invented this vernacular. We grew up with drop steps and half hooks in the post, but there was really not a good vocabulary for perimeter footwork.

And Brandon Payne, Stephen Curry, one of the ways Stephen became the greatest unassisted three-point shooter this game has ever seen is because he worked on fundamentals and developing new fundamentals out there. So that's by far my favorite chapter. And again, I hope it helps people watch Stephen in a sort of more enlightened way. Well, any chapter that beats a love letter to Manu Ginobili, I know that that's a high praise for the chapter because he's one of your favorite players of all time and one of my favorite players of all time.

But that's what's cool about the book is it has all the classic Kurt Goldsberry bells and whistles and the charts are unbelievable. And there's like I have the map hanging up in my in my office, the Naismith International Park map. There's beautiful stuff.

but there's a lot of reporting analysis insight from being around the game, from being around the Spurs, from working for the Spurs. That is, you just can't get that elsewhere. And it's, it's, it's a mix of lots of different things. And it's one of those books where,

You can pick it up and just be like, I want to read this chapter today. I want to read this section. You don't have to read it from start to finish. You don't have to sit there and like, I'm committing to reading a hundred pages of this. Now you can bounce around. It's like, it's almost like a collection of short stories, which is what I feel. Yeah. It's a great bathroom companion is what you're saying. I hear you, dude. Oh, I, first of all, no. Well, maybe, I don't know, depending on your one's literary tastes in the bathroom. Uh,

I'm not – I might not take a hardcover nice book like George Costanza did into the bathroom, certainly not at a bookstore with Rebecca De Mornay as the bookstore attendant, not the Rebecca De Mornay, in one of the more bizarre, absurdist moments in Seinfeld.

But I would say it's a vacation. Like my wife really does not like when I take hardcover books on vacation. She's like, can you just get a Kindle? I'm like, I don't want a Kindle. I don't want a Kindle, Kirk. I don't want one. And if you want to call me a Luddite, that's fine. You know what else? I hear Simmons talk about this all the time. And Bill is probably 10 years older than me. And it's one of the ways that I relate to him most is

He gets mocked by his younger co-hosts. I often get mocked by my younger producers, one of whom had never seen Happy Gilmore. This came out before the last episode, which to me is like, can you just take a day off from work and correct some of these mistakes? Bill talks about flipping channels and like landing on a movie and just the joy he gets out of that. And then I don't remember which co-host. I think it was Chris Ryan was like, Bill, you know –

Like you can just watch any movie anytime you want. I don't want to do that. I don't want to sit down and be like, now I'm watching The Godfather. That's not how my life works. I want to be like, you know what? I have half an hour to relax. I'm flipping around. Oh my God, I walked into The Godfather in this part. I relate so much to Bill's love of flipping channels and the joy he gets out of it.

And I don't want a goddamn Kindle either. I want a book. And what I was going to say is it's a great vacation book because short stories or collections of like magazine articles are some of my favorite vacation books to read. Because maybe I just get 45 minutes to read, you know, blah, blah. And I want to read this crazy New Yorker feature about white collar crime or something. Well, this is that for basketball. Hoop Atlas by Kurt Goldsberry. I don't have any other old man takes. You got any other old man takes that you want to get off your chest? Because this is a safe space. No.

But thank you for that ringing endorsement. I really appreciate it, Zach. It does mean a lot. Thank you for borrowing the book. I would just say as an entrepreneurial author, great Father's Day gift. Father's Day is the second most popular book-buying holiday on the calendar. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. What's first? Well, hold on. First...

At Christmas? Yeah. See, that's much easier than the plus minus trivia you gave me earlier where I screwed up Gaffer. Look at that. People think dads want to read books, huh? Are dads just so boring that people are like, we can't think of anything to get this person because they're just...

boring loser dads so like a book of course is a book like the candle of the scented candle of dad gifts yeah yeah i think so i think it is and uh but hoop atlas was designed to be a father's day gift so uh go and you started this podcast by saying this group text you had a focus group there in in connecticut uh and and tell me they didn't like it they love it so

Thank you, Zach. I appreciate it. Hoop Atlas, my second book, Sprawl Ball 2, The Quest for More Money, whatever you want to call it, is out. Alternate title, Sprawl Ball 2, The Reckoning. And if one of your producers hasn't seen Spaceballs, where that Sprawl Ball 2 joke came from, they also need to be held on trial immediately.

Spaceballs ages, his age very, very well and remains a classic. Okay. Enough old man takes Kirk Goldsberry. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your analysis. Thank you for your living with my dumb questions and on the spot questions and reacting to JB Bickerstaff's news and all that with me. Hoop Atlas, buy it, read it. Mr. Goldsberry, it's wonderful to see you. Enjoy the remainder of the playoffs. Thank you. For the first time, Monday night football streams exclusively on ESPN+.

Jim Harbaugh makes his long-awaited return to the Monday Night Lights. Touchdown, L.A. And the Chargers add to their lead. As the Chargers meet rookie Marvin Harrison Jr. and the Cardinals in the down. Murray scrambling. Harrison, 60 yards, touchdown. Chargers-Cardinals. Monday, October 21st at 9 p.m. Eastern. Streaming exclusively on ESPN+. Sign up now at ESPN+.com.