"Do Your Hands Have Calluses?" with Colorado's Working-Class Congressman Jason Crow
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I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. I'm certainly going to hold the line. You know, I always love when people are like, are Democrats going to do this? I'm like, well, I'm going with them. The task will not be an easy one. Your enemy is well-trained, well-equipped, and battle-hardened. There is not a liberal American.

and a conservative America of America. Good night and good luck. Hey folks, it's Rick Wilson. Welcome back to the Lincoln Project Podcast. I am your host as always. We are looking forward to talking today to Representative Jason Crow of Colorado's 6th District. You have probably seen Jason. He is one of these whip-smart younger members of Congress, a Democrat from a big, diverse district in Colorado. He's a Republican from a big, diverse district in Colorado.

And he is a guy who I look up to as a communicator. And I was glad to welcome to the show today. First off, I want to ask you, Jason, right off the bat, you were one of the folks who on January 6th were helping to defend the chamber, comforting some of your Republican colleagues. You were ready at that moment because as you said at the time, you were back in combat mode. I want to ask you first off,

How do you feel personally and how do your other colleagues, including your Republicans behind closed doors, feel about the fact that Donald Trump pardoned the people who, if they had gotten into that chamber, probably would have caused you and your colleagues enormous harm?

Well, I don't know how you couldn't be anything but infuriated by that. You know, I'm not an angry person. I don't do anger. Well, that's not what I do generally, but I'm pretty pissed off about that. And I, you know, yes, for my colleagues. Yes, for me. But I think the biggest moral stain on all of this for these officers, right, these officers

These officers who, you know, we actually get pretty close to. We get to know them. We see them every day at the same checkpoints, the same security entrances. You know, one of those officers actually had been on my security detail when I was an impeachment manager during the first impeachment. And he was with me for weeks at a time. And I got to know him and his wife and everything.

you know these these uh men and women who were just brutally beaten as we know right as the record very clearly shows as the video shows uh and um they sit here to this day guarding the people who are trying to sweep that under the rug who are supporting donald trump uh donald trump's attempts to revise history um that's that's tough for them that's really tough for them and you know that day it happened actually i was walking around and i could see it in their eyes i could see

you know, the impact on those officers. Yeah, I've gotten to know Mike Fanone real well and Harry Dunn. And these guys are, they're rightly mortified by this. They're rightly like, who are the good guys anymore? But I want to ask you a little bit more about the current things that are sweeping through Congress right now and

And Mike Johnson is right now trying to push through what Donald Trump calls his big, beautiful bill, which is a couple of trillion dollars of cuts to things like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. These programs are on the line. Are Democrats going to hold the line and not give Mike Johnson the gift that he needs right now? Because his caucus is fractured. And

I'm starting to hear this worry that from some Democrats who are saying, oh, well, you know, if we shut down the government, we'll take a political hit. I'm just curious if there's a determination to stop what Johnson has afoot here in giving Trump the runway for this tax bill.

I think there is. I'm certainly going to hold the line. You know, I always love when people are like, are Democrats going to do this? Like, well, I'm one of them. And I certainly, you know, don't speak for the Democratic Party writ large. But I think I have my hand on the pulse here, generally speaking. And yeah, I think we are we are ready to hold the line of the fight, the pushback. You know, there is a couple there's a couple of things going on here. Number one,

If there's a shutdown, this is not a democratic shutdown, period. Right. They hold every lever of government. Every lever. And that they have the decision. They have the power to make the decision whether or not there's a shutdown or not, or whether they want to in good faith work with us. That's that's one. Number two, you know, their their big, beautiful bill, A, is not paid for.

It's going to add to the debt and B, they're going to go and they're going to cut the most vulnerable Americans and actually in red and rural areas to burden shift to pay for the tax cuts for the wealthy in the top 1%. That's what they're going to do. Almost a trillion dollars in cuts in Medicare. Right. And

And they're going to do it by capping state level Medicare. And they know these states can't pay for it. Right. So they're going to burden shift. So that's what's really happening. The number three is how in this environment with the assault on democracy that's happening and the assault on our institutions that's happening, how can we not?

hold the line here and say, listen, if you want our help to pass a bill, we have to insert some guardrails in our democracy and the power of Congress, right? It's time for Congress to assert its power. So as you said, this bill is not paid for. This bill is adding to the debt that they claim they are so super concerned about while it's cutting taxes for Elon Musk and a handful of other billionaires.

and cutting state programs. This strikes me as kind of a perfect storm of stupid on the Republican Party's side. They warned us they would do it. They said they would do this. Are you starting to hear back in the district and from your colleagues,

about some of the surprise and shock and dismay by Republicans out in these red states and red districts that are like, well, we didn't think he was going to cut the programs that helped us. I'm just curious if you're getting the same pickup on that that a lot of other people are reporting. Yeah, I am hearing that. I actually held a roundtable of small business owners and managers just a couple of weeks ago, and probably about half of whom voted for

for Donald Trump. And they told me, they're like, well, we just thought it was rhetoric. We just thought he was saying things, you know, on the campaign trail and he wouldn't actually do it. And I'm like, well, he's actually doing it, right? One of the things we've learned is, you know, take, you got to take Donald Trump at his word and the people around him at his word because he's forecast what he's going to do. So yeah, there's no doubt that there is a growing recognition of

that he's going to do this stuff and that it's going to impact their health care. It's going to impact their small businesses. The other thing is the mass deportation piece, right? Right. And obviously, immigration is one of the most sensitive issues, but just the threat of mass deportations. And I represent one of the most diverse districts in the nation.

Lawful people, folks with green cards and visas are not showing up to work because they're afraid that they're gonna be targeted. And my businesses are having a hard time staying open. Actually, several of them said that they might have to close restaurants and close other businesses because they can't keep their workforce right now. - I'm hearing the same thing. I talked to somebody the other day in Georgia, a guy who does a lot of road building stuff. And he said, my people who have green cards and are legal,

they're not coming to work because they're terrified. They're, they're, they're afraid that the net is going to sweep up everybody. And, and that, that there is the indiscriminate nature of the, of what's going to go on with, with, with the deportation idea is it's just too intimidating. So this guy's like, I can't even hire people to do this job. I can't even grab, I don't, I don't have enough people to do this. Um,

But these funding freezes and these federal job cuts, I mean, Colorado has a fair number of federal employees out in the state. That obviously is another thing that's, I think, sort of surprised a lot of Trump supporters is that not everybody that works in the federal government is sitting in a cubicle somewhere talking to George Soros every day, planning, you know,

drag shows on the space station or whatever. They're just people who do things like firefighting and land management and air traffic control, things like that. Has that started to hit Colorado and your district in specific? Yeah, it's hit us really hard, Rick. We actually have the second largest federal workforce outside of the DMV, outside of the DC area. And a lot of it is public lands management of

You know, our national forests, our national parks. We have a huge federal workforce, firefighters, as you said, scientists. You know, we have a lot of, you know, federal science and fundamental research that goes on in our universities. Yeah. And listen, I think the way that I talk about this is things like Doge are in response to a to an actual need.

Right. There is an actual need to reform government, to make it more efficient. Like, you know, one of the most bipartisan things on the Hill right now is the desire for drastic reform of our defense contracting and procurement system, which I think is actually one of our biggest national security threats. Like we are we we are wasting tens of billions, if not hundreds of billions of dollars on weapons systems that we don't need that are not performing their function. Like talk about fraud, waste and abuse. Right.

Like that is true. And like, you know, you go around my district and people see these projects, you know, building bridges and it takes us eight years to build a bridge. That is wrong. That should not happen. And the fact that, you know, we allocated billions of dollars for electric vehicle charging stations under the last administration and very few of them ever get built. So there are lots of examples of that.

the real need for reform. Doge obviously is not the way to deal with that, right? You don't take a sledgehammer and beat it all down because what people are seeing is, wait a minute, the government actually performs essential functions to our lives, that delivers important checks, medications,

firefighting, you know, government actually matters, right? Like one of those things you don't appreciate until it's gone. So that's what we need to talk about is not defending government. I don't, I, and the democratic party needs to get away from defending agencies, right? We need to do is start talking about the services they provide and how we make those services better.

Yeah, I noticed that this week. It's like people like the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau is so important, but then they don't go down to the granular part of it and say, they're the ones who keep you from having to pay 40% credit card interest, folks. They're the ones who keep you from getting ripped off at, you know, on mortgage insurance or whatever these, you know, things that it used to do are. I think you're right. I think that's a... And that speaks to something that one of the reasons I've sort of admired watching how you communicate is...

As a member, you seem to communicate with folks who are working in middle class voters without a lot of the standard issue sort of beltway talking point affect. You get down to like, here's what the real nuts and bolts are. So where did you come to that way of talking to folks? I mean, it's obviously been effective. You captured a seat that was held by Republicans. You've done well in your elections because you've connected with a lot of people. How did you get there in being a good communicator that way?

What's not about me getting there, that's actually where I'm from. I was raised in upper Midwest. I was born and raised in Wisconsin in a working class family, a family of, you know, my extended family are construction workers, you know, working class folks, a Catholic household, a conservative Republican household. I was raised to be a Republican before I fell. Before life intervened.

And, you know, most of my, well, all of my immediate family actually are supporters of President Trump. My parents, my brothers. I have this own built-in focus group, right? Sure. Which can be awkward at times. Listen, this is where I'm from. I was raised in this environment. I went off into the military to help pay for school. I didn't have a lot of money growing up. You know, we moved around a lot. I started working in fast food when I was 15. Yeah.

I worked at Arby's and McDonald's and I literally worked constantly in my life since I was 15 years old. So, you know, raised hunting, fishing, all the things. So that's just where I'm from. And that's so ingrained in me that, you know,

It'll never come out. It'll never leave me. So when I go into politics and I see people that pretend to be working class or are contrived and fake it, you walk into a Friday night fish fry anywhere in the upper Midwest and instantly people are going to know whether

you belong there or not. Like you just can't fake this stuff, right? And I think that's one of the lessons for Democrats here is that level of authenticity and actually candidates who come from those places and represent those places. And that's how we're gonna start turning the tide here. - Say some more about that because I think this is something Democrats all, there's a sort of lament with Democrats. Oh, we're terrible communicators. We're terrible at messaging. We're terrible at narrative.

Sometimes. But you've shown there is an exception to that rule. You've shown there is a way to do this that respects people where they're at and you still communicate effectively with them. Are your colleagues on the Hill, do you feel like there's a sort of recognition they have to get out of the 30,000 foot policy discussions and back to granular and real things for real people?

- Well, Democrats still think by and large that we're having a policy discussion. We start everything with, all right, let's have a policy debate. That's not how you start anything, right? Like if people don't wanna initially have a policy debate, people wanna know, do you see them? Do you respect them? Do you have an interest in understanding their life? I remember when I was working in construction, I worked in construction for a couple of years to help me my way through college.

And I worked as a laborer, right? So I was laying asphalt, parking lots, digging foundations. That's hard work. I worked as a roofer. That's even harder. I thought laying gravel was tough, Rick. Oh, no. I will admit roofing is tougher. But you get on the job site, right? And you're shaking hands with folks and you're feeling the person's hands, right?

You actually feel the person's hands and you're doing like a callous check. And you can tell by somebody's hands whether they're one of you. Is this a working person? And I think the lesson in that is if people don't think that you understand and respect their lifestyle and where they're coming from, it doesn't matter how good your policies are or what you have to say. They're just not going to be open to you. And then you add on top of that,

you know, this deeply ingrained sense in certain parts of the country that people's lifestyle is maligned and that we don't respect their lifestyle. And it's a damning combination that makes it hard for us to break through. Clearly, we are not breaking through in communities and vast swaths of the country. Yeah. And I think you probably have one of the more

diverse districts that I've looked at in a long time. You've got, you've got all kinds of people from all walks of life across your district. It's not super homogeneous. Like a lot of these super small cluster districts are. And I guess that's probably one of the things that gives you a broader perspective on people because you have to talk to different types of people. You have to talk to folks who are, you know, it's the, it's the old, you know, cliche of shower in the, in the evening when they get home from work rather than in the morning when they go to work. Um,

And I do think that you're right. The Democrats tend to start very frequently with a let's have a policy debate. Let's let's talk about our 750 page plan about this or that. And a lot of guys just glaze over when they see that. A lot of people just they can't they can't focus on it. Yeah, they can't. They can't. And, you know, I and I'll be honest here, you know, we are still repairing everything.

our reputation and our standing with working class communities because of things like the deplorables comment, right? Like I still hear that a lot, right? Like when I'm talking with folks, you know, working people, they're like, hey, well, you guys just think that we're the deplorables. You don't actually respect us, right? That is a, that's a, it's a huge problem that we haven't, I think, fully addressed.

Don't you think there's a big opportunity here, though, for Democrats right now? Because you and I probably don't agree with Steve Bannon on a lot of things. But Bannon said the other day, he said a lot of our MAGA voters are on Medicare. They're on Medicaid. They're on Social Security. They're on disability. They're on SNAP. They're on TANF. And all those cuts are starting to become significant.

you know, the old Willie Sutton line, it's where the money is. And that's where the Republicans are going to go to try to get the money for this tax cut. Don't you think there's a big opportunity for Democrats to talk to those working class voters, to talk to folks who may culturally not like the Democrats, but you finally have an opportunity where the damage that's going to be done to them is right in their face right now? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Right. Like it's going to be real. Right. I, I,

The Colorado hospitals group came and talked to me recently. These are the people that run a lot of the hospitals in Colorado, and a lot of them were rural hospitals. And they told me that if the plan goes forward under this administration to make the cuts in the reimbursement rates, that they will shut rural hospitals in Colorado, period.

right? And as hospitals shut down, as medical practitioners leave communities, as people can't afford prescription drugs because 240B, which is the DC talk for this program that provides prescription drug coverage for a lot of folks, when that dries up and people aren't able to afford insulin, it's going to be brutal. I mean, first and foremost, people are going to be hurt.

Right. And that has to be the focus. And we have to figure out how we prevent that. But then we have to go to them and say, we're going to we will fight for you and fight to change that. And, you know, give us an opportunity to make the case. Right. This can't be a trust me, we will fight for you situation. Right. But it has to be is give us the chance.

Give us the opportunity to earn your support and earn it back. And we will show. We'll be right back. Save on Cox Internet when you add Cox Mobile and get fiber powered Internet at home and unbeatable 5G reliability on the go. So whether you're playing a game at home. Yes. Cool. Or attending one live. Oh.

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I mean, look, why did Trump spend $300 million and Republicans and Trump spent $360 million on those trans ads? That was a culture fight. And it was one the Democrats did not have the ability to push back on for a billion reasons. But I think the culture stuff...

I think it can be outweighed if Democrats come back and say, in a granular way, you know what, we're going to make sure your insulin goes, it stays at $30, not any higher. We're going to make sure you get the, you know, that the VA does the following things it promised to do for you. I think, like, the granularity of it, rather than these, like,

sort of amorphous big picture clouds in the sky thing is where Democrats can really do themselves a big favor. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think the individual impact on families is going to be really big if these policies move forward, right? And obviously people are most concerned about, as they should be, paying their rent, paying their mortgage, putting food on the table, like

You can't talk about democracy and institutions if someone is sitting down and wondering where their rent's going to come for next month.

This is basic stuff. Nor would I ask anybody to do that. I'm a parent. People are going to do anything for their kids. I would do anything for my kids. And if you're worried about your kid's safety, if you're worried about your kid's future, if you're worried about the roof over their head and their food, that's it. That's the fundamental thing.

piece for any parent, again, as it should be. Right. So like we got to meet them. We got to we got to meet folks there. We got to talk about those issues relentlessly. And then, you know, we can also talk about after the fact the importance of rule of law and why institutions matter. Not because this is the other piece we kind of fail on a lot as we just talk about institutions, assuming that people recognize the value of institutions. Sure. Like, well, institutions exist

to perform functions, right? And those functions are for people. To serve people, right? So let's not talk about the institution. Let's actually be very specific about what the function is and why it matters and how people's lives will be different if those functions aren't performed.

Well, I think some of the tangibles, you know, people are now saying, I'm not getting on an airplane because they're worried. They're worried the FAA doesn't have the manpower anymore. People are starting to see these listeria outbreaks and measles outbreaks and all these other things, stuff that the government would have normally been front and center on. And now it's sort of like the harm that's going to happen to people, I think, is so immediate and so...

As the economy teeters on the edge with all this tariff BS and this tax cut, I think the market is sending a lot of signals. And middle-class people are like, my 401K is taking a beating. I thought this guy was going to be the pie in the sky. I thought we were going to be great. The golden age. And everybody is looking at, they thought they were going to get gas and groceries, but instead they're getting Gaza and Greenland gas.

And it just, it strikes me as in a fairly rare misstep, Republicans are really missing the beat with a lot of these voters that they really need to sustain their majority in the House. - That's right. I mean, and so much of Trump's campaign was focused on the culture war stuff, which, you know, can help you win elections in certain areas, but then it makes it really hard when you don't actually have a governing policy coalition, right? Like when you don't have a coherent policy

A, when B, when you actually have policies that are inconsistent with each other and then C, you actually haven't developed a coalition around those policies.

So that is their challenge, right? And as time goes on, that's gonna be harder and harder for them, which then means we have an opportunity to earn people's support and actually make the case. But we just have to not squander that opportunity. And that has a lot to do with our approach, right? And how we're gonna make the case to those voters. - Yeah, I think that's so smart. And it really does come down to, as you said a minute ago,

asking them to give you a shot, asking them to say, here's what we're going to focus on. It's going to be nuts and bolts, economic stuff that affects your family, your life, your job every day. We're going to get out of the pie in the sky stuff. We're going to get out of the culture war corners because, you know, that opportunity is given to you by people who are handing you the sword to cut off their head, to put it bluntly.

I want to ask you a little bit. Can I also say something, Rick, about the, you know, the culture war piece? I mean, these are, these are also important issues though. Sure. Like, I don't want to just, you know, write off, oh, culture war stuff is some kind of big bucket of issues that don't matter. Right. Like let's talk about the gun piece, for example. Sure. Right. I was raised a hunter. I had my first gun when I was 12 and to have that gun and to hunt,

I had to go to my local YMCA down the block from my house. Do the hunter safety class. About proper handling, how to clean it, how to maintain it, how to store it. Right. And I got my hunter safety card, right. Which then allowed me to go hunting with my father. And I did, right. I grew up, you know, I deer hunted, I did duck, rabbit, squirrel, you name it. I hunted it. And, um,

That's really important, right? That experience, that culture around firearm ownership. Sure. Right. And what we've seen is a perversion of firearm ownership over time. Right. It's gone from that to this idea that like, oh, you have to have 10 AR-15s and you have to have this arsenal has become this different thing.

But I think what we don't do and I actually have made one of my focus areas in my time in Congress, gun violence prevention and common sense gun reform because I represent a district that's had some of the largest shootings in our nation's history. Right. And it's a huge issue for my community. So I've tackled this. But we so often Democrats don't talk about it right or they use the wrong terminology. Right. If if if a Democrat is going to talk about gun violence prevention and reform,

you better know how a gun works. Right. Right? You better know how it operates and you better not, you know, go out there and use the wrong term for it because people that know better, like, well, they don't even know what they're talking about. Right. When they say things like fully semi-automatic. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, they don't know the difference between, yeah, exactly. Fully automatic, semi-automatic, you know, bolt action, what a magazine is versus what a stock is versus, you know, an upper receiver or lower. I mean, you should, you should know this stuff because it's important to people.

And the people to whom it's important to and to where that is a part of their culture and their heritage. - It's a big signifier for a lot of people. - Will expect you to know the basics and the things that are important to them before they're willing to open up and have a conversation about how to reform it. - I think that's exactly right. I mean, we did a study years and years ago, about 10 years ago now, where we took the voter file in Florida and we compared it to the concealed carry file. We did a big statistical analysis of it.

And what shocked a lot of my Republican and Democratic friends was that 36% of the people in Florida with a concealed carry permit were Democrats. And they were way overrepresented in minority communities. And the Democrats didn't pay attention to that. They didn't understand why it was happening. And I think that they're that...

it, guns are a particular cultural signifier in the South and parts of the West that, that if you're going to come to talk to people, you better come correct and you better come knowledgeable. And, and, and I had a Democrat, good friend of mine, a Democratic member one time said, you know, I want to be able to talk better about this. I want to communicate better about this. I'm like, you should go to the range. You should go shoot at the range. You should go find out what people are talking about. Now understand what you're going to,

Tell them you're going to want to address and why. Because as I was, as you were, if you're raised in the hunter culture, safety is built in from day one. If you're a guy who wants to buy night vision goggles and tactical gear and all the bullshit and be a tactical Tommy, a meal team six mall ranger guy, you're going to go out and you're going to buy all this gear and you're not going to shoot it or train on it properly.

And I think you're right, that cultural hit there is something Democrats missed the boat on. One other area that I think they're missing the boat on right now in the Republican Party is Trump's wild embrace of Vladimir Putin. I mean, and I've talked to some Republican national security people who I haven't been in touch with now for six, seven, eight years who are adjacent to that world. They're like, oh my God, what have we done?

Oh, my God, what have we done? Do you think there's an opportunity here for the Democrats to start seizing back some of the national security chops that Republicans have sort of chipped away at for years and years?

Well, I'm doing it. And a lot of my colleagues, I'm an unabashed national security Democrat. That's what I call myself sometimes. I'm somebody who believes in strong national defense, that strength matters. I also believe firmly in diplomacy and humanitarian aid because I want to use military as a last resort, not as a first. Absolutely. Right. So that's kind of my general belief. And it is astonishing to

astonishing the abdication, frankly, of the Republican Party, right? And it was not that case just a couple of years ago. And I still have a lot of friends. I say this, I still have a lot of friends on the Republican side of the aisle, and I'm very bipartisan, as you know, who believe this stuff, although they're not increasingly not willing to talk about it publicly, which is a problem. But the

the abdication of our basic national security from some of the nominees who are incompetent at best, compromised potentially at worst because they've never been fully vetted to the rhetoric. And I always point out

you know, this rhetoric around Putin is not harmless. It's not just somebody saying things right. The words that are being used are fracturing our alliances and our partnerships. It's emboldening our adversaries and autocrats around the world who feel like they now have a free pass. I am seeing in real time the the the

very rapid increase in risks that America faces. I said on the Intelligence Committee, and I'm briefed on this regularly, there is a real time and a rapid increase in the threats that we are facing because of the permission that this administration is giving to our adversaries that believe that they can act with impunity now. We'll be right back.

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You have a calling. We have an answer. Learn more at todaysmilitary.com. And now, back to the show. It strikes me that, you know, by doing this with Putin, by offering him up Ukraine on a plate and everything else he wanted and getting nothing for it, you do end up with China and Iran and North Korea and Russia itself seeing the world is not going to have an American economy

soft power response, because we've killed off USAID and we're killing off as much foreign aid as Elon can figure out where to find it, and that our hard power response now could end up on the side of the Russians in this war. I mean, Trump is, the fundamental realignment, I think, is so sharp that it's a chance for Democrats to say, hold up. We know that this is not

the world you guys in most of the Republican Party believe in. We know that Ronald Reagan would rise from his grave if he could over this realignment. And I think it's a chance, though, for Democrats to get back to that Truman, JFK sense of

of national security prowess and understanding. Yeah, I think that's right. And I think there's a couple of things that I've grappled with here. One is the understanding that I've been kind of coming to for years is that the post-World War II era of global engagement, this idea where, you know, the generation that fought in World War II and the generation of the Cold War, they understood through real experience, right?

the consequences of isolationism and lack of engagement, right? But that understanding is kind of, we took it for granted for a long time. And we kind of stopped making the case for, you know, U.S. leadership in a very specific way to folks, right? We just talked about, you know, I would constantly hear terms like,

the rules based international order. We have to maintain the rules based international order. Like, but nobody know what the hell that means. Right. Like people want to know why does that matter to me? Right. And how does that make my life better? So that's the first part of this is, is we need to start making the case to Americans and to our constituents about why global engagement matters to their life. And then the, the,

The second piece is just, you know, again, the national security abdication by the Republicans. And we're going to see the world get worse and worse and more volatile. And we're going to have to respond to that.

Well, it is, I think it's a dangerous moment in our history. It didn't have to be this way. It did not have to be this way. Well, I want to thank you, Representative Jason Crowe, for coming on the show today. You are a guy who is speaking to Americans today.

where they are. And I really admire that. So Jason, a lot of your Republican colleagues have been having a pretty rough week on town hall meetings. They're having a hard time explaining a lot of these things. You've got a big town hall coming up this Thursday, I understand. What are you expecting for people to come and ask you in this question? It must feel pretty decent to not have to excuse away all the craziness. Well, I mean, I wouldn't say feeling decent is how I'm feeling right now about anything.

Right. This is a pretty bleak situation and there's a lot of suffering. But I do have a town hall coming up. I do town halls very regularly, telephone town halls, in-person town halls, business roundtables, employee town halls. I'm always out in the community. And within 24 hours of posting the notice for this town hall, over 1,500 people signed up, which is three times. Wow.

as many as my next largest town hall in the last six years. So enthusiasm is high for this engagement and people are afraid. And I'm going to address those concerns and do my best to meet folks where they are. Good for you. And again, when you see folks out there in the country, in these Republican town halls, folks, when you see them getting their, like the shock on their faces,

Kind of strikes me because it's like suddenly they're not on Twitter, they're not watching Fox News, and they're hearing real people say, you're hurting us. You fired my wife. You fired my husband. You took away a grant that supported my college. My insulin is now $300 again. What's going on? Some of them just have this look on their face like you hit them in the face with a frying pan. They seem stunned by it.

Yeah. And I think that's the town hall and the rising up of folks within red districts in particular, I think is going to make a big difference because, listen, they don't really care what I have to say. Right. Right. They're primarily concerned about Donald Trump and their fear of Donald Trump and Donald Trump crushing them if they get out of line. But if their constituents are

start showing up in a big way like they have been and like they increasingly are, that could make a difference. I think that's right. I think that's right. And I think a lot of these folks are starting to get the phone calls from their districts with the shock of just how much these random cuts are going to hurt real people. I think that's the big key for you guys to make this a very successful program.

a very successful way to put pressure on these guys to stop this harm that they're doing. I think that's right. That's right. And you know, when they talk about numbers, right? I've heard, I heard somebody the other day, somebody in Omega world say, oh, well in any of these situations, there's always 10 to 15% breakage or spoilage that will have to be fixed. Like really? Because in government,

And in leadership, when you talk about a number like that in aggregate, you're talking about millions of people's lives. Correct. And if people don't get medicine or lose their homes or lose their jobs, you can't just fix that. Right. That's not the way the government works. This is not this is not like taking over a social media company. Right. So that's the difference here. Where can folks find you on social media and online?

Well, I have a website. It's crow.house.gov. And I'm on Twitter or X, as they might say, Facebook, Instagram as well. Very good. Well, thank you so much again for coming on. And we'll talk to you again soon. Thank you.

The Lincoln Project Podcast is a Lincoln Project production. Executive produced by Whitney Hayes, Ben Howe, and Joey Wartner Cheney. Produced by Whitney Hayes. Edited by Riley Mayne. Hey folks, if you want to support the Lincoln Project's work against Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and this MAGA craziness...

Go to action.linkinproject.us slash help LP. If you'd like to get in touch or have suggestions for a guest or a show topic, or just want to say hi, our email is podcast at linkinproject.us. For our MAGA friends, please, no more nudes. Thanks so much, and we'll talk to you again next time. Good night, and good luck.