Don't Sleep on This Episode with Sleep Expert Alanna McGinn
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Well, good morning. And when I say good morning, I mean, it is a good morning. Let's just say, ladies and gentlemen, you are listening to the brand new Jan Arden show. Caitlin is here. Sarah Burke is here. And I just want to announce as well that we are on the new Women in Media Podcast Network. And it is a dream of Sarah Burke's to launch this network. She's got some amazing news that she'll probably share with you as we move along. And

So here we are. You will find us as you always do on iTunes, on Spotify, you know, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. We're going to always be making social media announcements so that you have updates. But right now we're just finding our feet. But we on this virgin voyage have the most fantastic guest, which is so fitting because we

All of us have lost a little sleep. I feel like I've actually gained sleep, for the record. And of course, today, our wonderful guest, Alana McGinn. She is a sleep expert and enthusiast. She's a sleep enthusiast. And oh my God, Alana, I'm so with you on that. She's also the founder of the Good Night Sleep Society.

site. And we're going to have all those links in our show notes. She is a certified stress management coach. Alana McGinn, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be part of this show. I also have to add that Alana was our sleep coach for when we were sleep training will.

And so Alana followed me on social. She reached out to me after Will was born and had offered her services. And she is the person who got our family back to sleep. It was such a pleasure working with you. Let's start there. So you have

someone like Caitlin and Kyle and young Will, and these guys are a new family and they're exhausted. Let's just start with that because there's got to be so many people out there right now that might not be their situation, but they could have a toddler. They could have a husband that's got stress at work that's not sleeping. They could be going through changes. So what is the jumping off point for somebody needing

Well, I mean, it depends on the age of the individual. So for Caitlin's situation, you know, to better their sleep, we always have to focus on the kids because kids aren't sleeping. As we all know, parents aren't sleeping.

So we work with babies up to really tweens and teens as well, that whole age group also, and get them sleeping better. As children get older, we work more kind of as a family with family goals. When we're working with, I can't remember, how old was Will when we started? Was he five months? Yeah. So when we're working with that age group, um,

Really, it's putting a proper sleep plan together for baby or toddler or preschooler. And then once the child starts sleeping better, then we can now start working on the parents. But I mean, oftentimes, once the child starts sleeping better, the parents just naturally start sleeping better. But sometimes there's more steps that we have to take with the adults as well, for sure. So what are the things that we're doing that are stealing sleep? And this is the stuff that I'm sure Sarah and Caitlin and I have heard ad nauseum, and that's

Yeah. Don't look at the blue screen. Don't look at your iPad. Don't be sitting in bed on your computer. Don't be watching Netflix on your phone. Put that away. So can we maybe address that? Is that a myth? Is there any truth to that? What if people are reading on their Kindle? Like, well, what do we do here?

So if you would have asked Alana two years, no, not even two years ago, you know, three or four years ago about tech, I would have told everyone. I mean, let's be honest. We are a chronically sleep deprived society with tech being one of the biggest sleep busters, if not the biggest. And not just because of the blue screen, but a lot of it is just what we're absorbing before we go to bed. We are always connected. Always. There's always a computer screen, a phone. There's always something in front of our face.

So if you would have asked me, you know, three or four years ago, I would have said, get tech out of your bedroom. No TVs, no tablets, no phones. Choose an area in your home. For instance, we have a docking station in our kitchen where we all plug in our devices. It keeps everything charged and out of our bedroom. But here's the thing. I always felt really awful giving that advice. And the reason why is because I...

I understand there was, if you remember a few years ago, there was a article that went around that talked about like bedtime procrastination, revenge, right? So it's revenge, bedtime procrastination. Right. Revenge, bedtime procrastination. Okay, just let me stop you right there. And just what is that? So that is where an individual knows all the things they should be doing at bedtime to sleep well. The revenge part is like, this is my time, right?

I finally have the kids are in sleep. Dinner is cleaned up. Work is signed off. This is like the two hours of night that I get where I don't have to answer to anyone. And you want to look at your stuff. Yeah, you want to do whatever you want to do. And that might mean watching your favorite show, texting with your friend, scrolling mindlessly on TikTok.

So I always felt really, and I like as a mom of three, a single mom now of three, I understand the joys of those few hours at night, right? So I always felt bad telling people, don't look at your phone, turn off your TV, don't do all these things. So my advice in regards to tech now is if you are someone who is really struggling with sleep,

removing tech is your best option, 100%. But if you are someone who knows maybe you need to make some changes, you need to work on some sleep habits, just set boundaries on what tech you're allowing in in your evening hours. So if there's a show that makes you feel like we all have our favorite shows, Caitlin and I also bonded off of reality television.

You want to watch an episode of Vanderpump before you go to bed because it helps you like forget your day, then watch an episode. This isn't me giving you permission to like watch the entire season until two o'clock in the morning, but you can do that. Or if you, there's friends that, you know, fill your tanks and then there's friends and family that empty the tanks. Don't talk to those before you go to bed. Talk to the ones that fill your tank before you go to bed. So yeah,

Set those boundaries. It's okay to do that because sometimes that can actually help us sleep better because it minimizes our stress levels a little. Well, I was going to say, so like one episode and then, you know, that's that. I do know that routine, and you're the expert here, I have a very specific routine that

going to sleep. The girls and I have talked about it before because I travel 200 days plus a year. I have learned after being on the road for 35 years that I have to have a routine, whether it's after a show at midnight, it's the same for me. And that really does help even if I'm in different time zones. So speak to routine and how that plays a part in our sleep because mine is ironclad. If I

delineate any one thing in that routine, it bugs me. And I'm not OCD, but I just know what I need to do to help me. No, and I love that. You know, often we create these really elaborate routines for our kids and we forget that we need to do the same for ourselves. It's hard to go from 100 to zero. And there's so much going on in our world throughout the day that we need to prepare our body and mind to...

Be calm and be relaxed and get ready for bed, especially if it's an individual like yourself who's traveling so much. You're sleeping in different places. Routine is so important because it's bringing that familiar environment or familiar routine in an unfamiliar space, right? Super important. So creating that routine for us, even as adults, is just as important because, like I said, we have to prepare our body and mind to go to bed.

So you can break it out in however you want. I like to look at it as I call it like a power down hour. So you have one hour and you're breaking it up into three 20 minute increments. So the first 20 minutes, let's prepare for the next day because nothing gets our mind going than thinking of that to do list. And especially as women, we have so many tabs open in our brain. What do we have to do tomorrow? What do we have to do next week?

you know, what do we have to do anytime? So, you know, writing out your to-do list, choosing your outfit, packing your lunch, like whatever you have to do to kind of clear your brain, give your brain that dump. The next 20 minutes is you time. So it's washing your face, brushing your teeth, changing into your pajamas. That in itself, that simple task of just changing into PJs, because many of us are still working from home. Many of us are in pajamas all day long. Well,

that's just it. Exactly. We're going to bed in the same outfit we woke up in, right? So it's little cues like changing into pajamas that cues your brain that it's time to go to bed. Alana, it really does. There is so much comfort. There is so much fricking fucking joy in my heart when I put my pajamas on. Like when I brush my teeth and I don't know about you guys, but my teeth routine is quite long in the evening and in the afternoon and the morning. I dread it because it's

two minutes for sure on my electric toothbrush and I have to go till it buzzes out and there's flossing. And then I have another little thing that I do, but once I have that done and my pajamas on and I don't drink anything else, cause God knows I'll have to pee 17 times before I go to bed. That's another thing that helped me in my routine is like after six o'clock, I don't drink anything.

I used to be one of those people that would have the chamomile tea. Well, I had to make a choice, Alana. It's just like, if I have this chamomile tea right now, I'm going to get up at least once or twice to go to the bathroom. My grandmother told me, do not hold your pee. You'll ruin your bladder. You'll ruin your pelvic floor. I'm nine. I don't fucking know what a pelvic floor is. Is it parquet flooring? Is it a loop? What is it? Can we walk on it? Is it washable? Can you mop it?

So, when I even have the slightest, when my brain's like, ding, you got to pee. I don't hold it. A lot of people can force themselves back into sleep. It's a terrible thing to do to your body. Stagger up, stay in your haze, don't pee in the closet, actually try and make it into your bathroom. I have done that and I'm not kidding you and I was as sober as a judge. I was in a hotel, I didn't know where I was, I backed up onto the luggage rack and I peed.

I was so asleep and so tired. And I, honest to God, I used to drink a lot and I was as sober as a fucking carrot. I peed. But anyway, enough about me. Yeah, we always want our body to be focused on sleeping. So when our body is busy doing something else like holding in pee, and that's the worst, I'm with you. Like I have to get up and pee if I have to pee. There's no way I can. And if I do fall back asleep, it's never a great sleep because your body is now focused on your bladder, not focused on restoring sleep. That's the truth, right? So get up and go.

100%. Okay. If your body's busy trying to regulate temperature or if you had a really big meal right before you go to sleep and now your body is busy digesting the food, you're not going to sleep as well. It can't do more than one thing at a time. And

Listen, as we get older, you know, we have to make adjustments here or there. The amount of liquid that you drank before you go to bed, maybe you can't do now. The kind of foods you ate before you go to bed, maybe you can't do now. That happens. So you have to always know what your personal sleep needs are, how things affect you. I mean, I will always and forever be jealous of those people. And there are those people that can drink a cup of coffee before they go to bed. Like, I love those people. I know those people. I have a 92.

two-year-old friend that drinks tea, caffeinated tea. There's more caffeine in some teas than there is a cup of coffee. Oh, it doesn't bother... It's never bothered me. And it helps me go to the bathroom in the morning. Yeah, I'm not that person either. There's so many things I want to ask you. Alcohol. Let's talk about it. Everyone who's ever...

gone out on a Friday night, had that late meal at a restaurant, had two, three glasses of wine, knows that it's like a given. I'm going to sleep like shit. I'm going to feel like crap. I'm going to wake up at three o'clock in the morning because I've had a few drinks. So address alcohol. What does it do to our sleep? How does that affect us? And what's your recommendations? Is there anything that can

I don't know, alleviate those two drinks at 9, 10 o'clock at night that will help you overcome that? Is it water? Is it an aspirin? Is it Advil? What is it? So with alcohol, how it works is if you're drinking alcohol, yes, sure, alcohol can help you fall asleep. But as the alcohol leaves our system, that's when that fragmented sleep happens, right? So that's when we tend to have...

more restless sleep throughout the night as the alcohol is leaving our system. Just like tech, this is where, you know, I always felt bad telling people like, don't drink, don't have that glass of wine with dinner. You know what I mean? Like, I get it. I have a glass of wine with dinner every now and then. Or like a new parent, you finally have a sitter for your kid and you go out and you're like, I'm going to sleep awesome.

tonight because I don't have to get up with baby. But of course you go out, you have a couple drinks and you have the worst night of sleep ever. It happens. So this is again where you kind of have to monitor, know your body, know because some people can drink certain things, some people can't drink certain things, know how it's going to affect you and either eliminate it

And as we get older, we might need to do that completely or know that, you know, one night of sleep. And this is something that I say to so many people, regardless of why you didn't have a great night of sleep, like one night of sleep, it's okay. Like it's okay. But three. Well, that's where you need to monitor. You starting to get into precarious territory because, you know, as the information has come out in the last 15 or 20 years, sleep is the opportunity that your brain has to clean itself.

They even talk about different sleep positions. They even talk about sleeping on your side versus sleeping on your back versus sleeping on your stomach of how the brain picks up the garbage that it has, you know, accumulated and rids itself through breathing, through urination, through your kidney, liver, lungs, all that kind of stuff.

So it gets quite frightening when you think about people and you were talking about the mom or the person that comes home, want to reward themselves. I'm going to fucking watch my show. I'm going to have this glass of wine. So now you have two things going. I'm going to go to bed at 1130 instead of 930, which is another brick in the wall because we know from studies that the earlier you go to sleep and...

the more that you nail that sleep day after day after day of when you go to sleep, which is practically impossible when you have a family and a job and a husband and the boyfriend and your lover. It's very difficult to find the time, but all those things, you can see where this wall starts getting built up when people are struggling with sleep. And I'm sure you have clients like this all the time where you're like, okay, we got five things that we need to work on.

Yeah. So when we look at insomnia, we have acute and chronic. Acute insomnia is something that's happened to myself and all of us here. It's just a few nights of poor sleep. It could be because of all the things you just mentioned. It could be because as women, we go through different hormonal shifts throughout the month and that can affect our sleep. Maybe you're not feeling as well. Maybe you're going through a more stressful or worrisome time in your life. The problem and

to agree with what you're saying is that acute insomnia, which is normal and can happen, can turn into chronic insomnia if we don't start bettering our sleep health. So if we don't start making those changes. So when I say it's okay to just have, like it's okay if you have one night of bad sleep, the reason actually why I say that is because when we have one night of bad sleep, one of the reasons why things can turn chronic is people start hyper-focusing on that sleep loss.

And that in itself can elevate stress and stuff like that. And that doesn't help you sleep better, right? So this is where I kind of want to take pressure off people a little bit and say, it's okay if you have one night of bad sleep. But if you're continuing to do all of those things that gave you a night of bad sleep, that's when now we get into problems for sure. I want to talk to Alana about sleep tech. I have an aura ring that has really, really changed profoundly in a positive way.

how I sleep. It's all the rage. The watches have sleep stuff on it. Aura Ring has really changed my life. You know, marking my sleep. I get up every morning, Alana, and I am like looking at my little app on my Aura Ring. We are not sponsored by the Aura people, although please contact us. And I'm looking at my sleep number and I'm telling you, I can guess it now. I'm like, oh, fuck, that was a 71%.

That was not good. That was a 92. And I'm always disappointed when it's like 88. I'm like, shit, I thought I was in the 90s. So talk about that a little bit. And-

And if you think they do make a difference, is it just in my mind? But it's really changing when I go to bed. It tells me get ready because your window and it shows me on a little watch face is the next 75 minutes. You need to be in there and reading your book and doing your thing. So that reason alone is why I love the sleep tech that's coming out.

It's changed a lot in the past couple of years in terms of trustworthy information that we're getting. So if we look at something like the Oura Ring or the Apple Watches and things like that. So here's the thing. I have a love it, hate relationship with sleep tech because I don't fully believe that it gives you exactly the proper information. If you really want your sleep properly tested, the

best thing that you can do and really the only thing you should do is an EEG. So this is where you are going through a sleep study, you're sleeping in a sleep lab or clinic, it's monitoring your brain waves, it's monitoring your breathing patterns, it's monitoring your limb movements, it's monitoring you're hooked up to everything. I don't know if anyone's ever had a sleep study done. I have. It's not the most comfortable night of sleep, but it really does give you the information that you need. So I don't feel that

The tech is there yet. I feel like we'll get there for sure. I mean, we know that. I don't know that it's entirely there yet. What I love about the sleep tech is what you mentioned. It makes you more focused on your sleep health. So if we look at like our three, well, I say three pillars of sleep health, but I'm going to extend that to four. We look at nutrition. We look at exercise. We look at connection. That's the fourth that I'm going to add, because if we've seen anything in the past

five years, we know how important connection is. And then we look at sleep. We tend to focus a lot on, and for all the right reasons, exercise and nutrition as we should. We don't tend to put sleep in the same value of importance. I think that that's also changed. People are starting to put more value on sleep health. And I feel like sleep...

Sleep tech devices are a reason for that. Because like you said, you're monitoring, you're looking, you're knowing when you have to go to bed. So it's making you more focused on bettering your sleep health. But we also have to be careful that we're not, again, hyper-focusing on

on those results. And that so for instance, the example that you use, you know, I thought I was a 90, but I was in an 80. If you can take that information and roll with it, cool. But then there are some people who might look at that. And now that's going to kind of, you know, amplify their stress and anxiety that they're already feeling about perhaps not sleeping well. So we have to be careful with that. You haven't asked me this question, but I feel like I have to just mention it.

In terms of sleep studies and sleep labs and clinics, sleep apnea is a leading sleep disorder. It's one that's often undiagnosed. So tell people what that is. I know we hear that a lot. I know what it is, but I want our listeners to understand what sleep apnea is because people think about snoring. It is not snoring. It's an obstruction of airway. It's an obstruction of airway.

So it's where there's an area of your throat while you're sleeping that essentially closes. There's different kinds of sleep apnea. That is the most common obstructive sleep apnea. There's also sleep apnea where your brain doesn't properly commute to your airway while you are sleeping.

But it is a leading sleep disorder. Same with insomnia. Those are the two leading sleep disorders. It doesn't discriminate. Often when we think of sleep apnea, we think of, you know, older overweight men who have it. But it could be women. It could be men. It could be children. My daughter had sleep apnea due to enlarged tonsils and adenoids. She wasn't getting in the proper restorative sleep while she was sleeping. So what did you do for her? We had to get her tonsils and adenoids removed.

Chelsea Handler actually brought a little bit of light on this, that when she was going out with a coy, Joe coy, Joe coy. Yeah. So when they were going out, it was funny because he was on a CPAP machine and this is a young fit,

attractive guy that is in his thirties, you know, late thirties, maybe early forties at the, at the most. And he was on a CPAP machine and Chelsea was kind of making jokes about sleeping beside him with the CPAP that they had to have sex first and then, you know, get his head gear on. She goes, it's so sexy. And it was, she was very funny how she did it, but he's 52 by the way. Oh, 52. There you go. Sarah is here to always correct me. I just make up shit. I make up shit. Don't believe anything. You can believe Alana, but do not believe me.

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But yeah, so it is funny how these machines obviously force... What do they do? What's a CPAP machine do? So it forces airflow so that your body is essentially able to breathe while you're sleeping. I mean, that's why sleep apnea is so important to...

be diagnosed because you're essentially not breathing while you're sleeping and there could be long-term health risks due to that. Could it kill you? Increased risk of stroke, obesity, diabetes, heart disease. During sleep. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's funny. I do a lot of corporate lunch and learns while going to companies and speak about sleep health. And there was a woman that was at one of my lunch and learns and she pulled me aside afterwards because I was talking about sleep apnea. She must

have been and again I'm guessing but she must have been in her 30s she said you know that my husband had a heart attack right beside survived had a heart attack right beside me while we were sleeping and the the EMTs thank you you're obviously not sleeping well because you're memory exactly um

said it was due to sleep apnea. So, and again, this is a 30-year-old man. So, yeah, it's dangerous. How do you know you have it? Okay. So, if you are sleeping beside someone, that's the person you need to ask because often the person who has it doesn't even realize. Yeah. Doesn't even realize that they are snoring. Now, if you're sleeping alone, snoring

Signs and symptoms to look for is if you know you snore. And I'm talking like wall rattling snoring, okay? Some people don't know. Some people don't know. But if you're waking up with dry throat, with headaches, if you're showing a lot of excessive daytime activity,

sleepiness and I'm not just talking like fatigue or low energy I'm talking about you're falling asleep at red lights you're falling asleep in meetings you cannot keep your eyes open sitting at your cubicle that to me is a red flag that sleep is getting lost somewhere at night if you are that tired during the day so that's where you would go to your doctor you would have a conversation with them and then they would then refer you to have a sleep test done either at a lab or a clinic and

And you would get diagnosed. The normal treatment for it is CPAP machines. It's really the best treatment for sleep apnea. Many people are concerned about how they would feel sleeping and it might not be that comfortable or they're worried about, you know, sleeping beside someone like Chelsea was saying with the CPAP machine on. But listen, I would rather be sleeping beside somebody with a CPAP than listening to that snoring all night too, right? So I broke up with him. That's a terrible message, Sarah. Yeah.

Not just because of snoring. But I want to add, though, that one of my good friends has a CPAP machine. And he's a young guy, too. He's always snored. It runs his family. They joke that their whole family goes on vacations now and they all bring their little CPAP case with them at the airport. But he said he initially felt concerned that he was not going to be able to sleep properly with the mask on. And now it hasn't even been that long. And he's like,

I will not travel even one night without it. Like that's how much it's improved to sleep. And sometimes until you start getting that really deep restorative sleep that you've probably been missing for a long time, you don't realize how good it feels and that you will do literally anything, including sleep with a giant hose attached to your face to maintain that quality of sleep. It can be a game changer on your life. Like 100%. So many people that I speak to

On the other side of it that are now diagnosed and using CPAPs, I mean, they're like, I didn't realize how shitty I felt with sleep apnea until I was now, you know, using the CPAP machine. So because, you know, often when you have sleep apnea and then you start using the CPAP, a lot of bad sleep habits have been picked up along the way. So I kind of then work on the sleep hygiene part of it once they're diagnosed and using the CPAP to do an overall kind of sleep wellness plan.

So here's a myth you can dispel for me, perhaps. I've read many articles late at night on my iPhone as I'm getting ready to go to bed. God, Jesus, this is just a vicious circle, isn't it? But they speak to people that go to bed early and get up early, literally have a longer lifespan, scientifically proven. Early to bed, early to rise, those age-old myths that were kind of handed to us as young people.

Early to bed, early to rise, you live longer. Is there any truth to that? So the term night owl or lark, there is truth to that. You can be a natural night owl where you tend to go to bed later and tend to sleep in later in the morning, or you can be a natural lark where you tend to go to bed earlier and wake up earlier.

The reason why I'm going to talk more about the morning wake time than I am the bedtime, because our bedtime really should be due to what time we wake up in the morning. And the reason why the morning routine is so important, more so important, in all honesty, than our bedtime routine in terms of sleeping better, is because the time that we wake up in the morning and what we do in the morning...

starts off our day, starts filling our sleep drive, and I'll speak to that, that in itself is gonna help us fall asleep a lot better at night. So what I mean by that is your morning routine, think of your sleep drive as a sleep tank, okay? So it's whether you've had a good night of sleep or not,

When we wake up, our sleep tank, our drive is on empty. Our goal throughout the entire day is to fill that tank full, fill that pressure full. That's going to help us fall asleep a lot easier. It's also going to help us get more restful sleep throughout the night and stay asleep more consistently.

Ways to do that is waking up at, as you were saying, more consistent times in the morning. So what first step of sleep hygiene? Consistent sleep patterns. Try to go to bed at the same time every night. Try to wake up at the same time every morning. 80-20, right? 80% of the time, try and keep as consistent as you can with your sleep patterns.

opening up the blinds, immersing yourself in that natural light, moving your body. These are all important tools to start helping us build that drive for sleep to help us fall asleep a lot easier, which then in turn is going to better our health and give us that longevity, right? So yes, we want to focus on bedtime routine and we touched on that, but you also really want to focus on that morning routine. And the one tip that I actually got from Martha Stewart when I listened to her talk, don't check your phone or your emails at least once

30 minutes when you wake up. Give that 30 minutes to yourself. It could be a walk. It could be a quiet cup of coffee. It could be yoga. It could be something. Don't check in with the world for at least 30 minutes to not bring in that stress, right? As soon as we check our phone, it's like, boom, we're instantly connected. And that we carry with us all day. How sad would it be if you spent that half hour in the morning doing whatever you're doing and the text was,

Call 911. I'm being kidnapped right now. It's an extreme. Okay.

And it's too late. Sarah's gone. She's in the trunk of a car. And it's because I was selfishly fucking making lemonade and sewing an apron in the morning, you know? Sorry, Sarah. As we get older, as I've gotten older, and I am the matriarch of this group, I wake up earlier. So I usually wake up between 5 and 5.30 now, which is probably...

exactly what you just spoke to. I go to bed earlier because my body knows. I could conceivably go, oh, I can sleep in tomorrow. My body does not work that way. I'm on hormone replacement. It's a long story. We'll get into that. But I wake up between five and 5.30, just bing. I don't fall back asleep. I'm not going to fall back asleep. I'll lay there for 20 minutes and be very mindful about the day. I'll pet the dog and he knows, like she's awake now.

And it is more difficult when it's pitch black in the house. I'm not going to lie. I much prefer the summer when the light is coming up through the curtains at quarter after five and it feels like a more natural launch into the world. But you will start getting up earlier as you get older. That's just what happens. So even if you're going to bed at 12 or one o'clock in the morning, you're going to wake up when you wake up.

You know, you go to bed at 1.30 in the morning because you've had a late night, but you're going to be up. The idea of waking up at 9 is not real. Your body's not going to fall back to sleep again. And that's just what happens as you get older. Absolutely. I mean, and I've even noticed that as well. And I'm a natural early riser. I've always have been. You know, I'm not waking up singing with birds by any means, but I enjoy my earlier mornings.

So I always base my bedtime, I try and base my bedtime as well as I can off of that. But in saying that, you know, when we talk about bedtime, we've mentioned a few times going to bed early. But what I also try and tell my clients is often we think of like 9.30, 10 being an appropriate bedtime. So a lot of people will go to bed at that time because they just feel like that's the bedtime. That's the time I should go to bed at.

But it's more important to go to bed when your body actually feels tired and sleepy. Now, this isn't me saying go to bed at two o'clock in the morning. But if you're lying in bed, and these are people who are actively trying to fall asleep, not those who are like going to bed and then scrolling for two hours on TikTok.

They're going to bed because they just think, not even that they're tired. They just think 9.30 is my bedtime. I'm going to bed. But now what happens is we're tossing and we're turning and we're clock watching. We've all been guilty of that. And you start doing the countdown. If I go to bed now, I'll get four hours. If I go to bed now, I'll get three hours. That doesn't help. The more awake time that we spend in bed, it weakens that positive association between sleep and our bed.

So my advice to those individuals is start logging your sleep for a week or two. And if you find that you're going to bed at 9.30, but you're not actually falling asleep until 11, 11.30, maybe 12, that should then be your bedtime. That's when now you need to kind of shift it a little bit and start going to bed a little bit later rather than what people would think I would recommend in going to bed earlier. That's what my therapist told me. It's actually a form of CBTI. So cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia is it's

falls under that umbrella. It's called sleep restriction and it's moving your bedtime later so that our sleep onset is shorter and we're making a more positive association between sleep and your bed. That's exactly what she did. I was like, cause I woke up so early for, for morning radio. So I thought I was doing the right thing by going to bed so early.

And she was like, no, you're setting yourself up for failure because you're just tossing and turning in bed. And now you're in this anxiety spiral, your cortisol spiking, and it's going to take you that much more. And she's like, don't get into bed until you're tired because it doesn't make any difference. And then, you know, if you can slowly work your bedtime back

to be earlier and earlier, that's more realistic than being like, I'm going to get into bed at eight o'clock and I'm going to fall asleep at 815. And if I don't, like something's wrong with me, that let's sort of negative thinking. So like, it was weird to hear go to bed later, despite my early rise, but it was it really worked. That's good. I just want to speak to some of the things that we've also heard over the years, taking supplements before you sleep. There's lots of things about melatonin and

Magnesium, you know, have a banana before you go to bed, have a warm glass of milk, barf, don't drink milk, whatever you do, stay away from dairy. But can you address some of those things that are, you know, there's a huge, huge industry, billions of dollars, in fact,

whether it's sleepies or any of these over-the-counter sleep aids. I think it's a slippery, dangerous slope. I would rather see someone walk on a treadmill at 10 o'clock at night for 20 minutes in their pajamas than take some of that stuff. But can you speak to that, Alana, before we let you go?

Absolutely. So a supplement like melatonin, as you said, is being marketed very much so as a sleep aid. And many people don't really understand what melatonin is. And they look at it as a sleeping pill. They think if they take it, they're going to feel sleepy and fall asleep. Melatonin is actually a natural hormone that we all possess.

It's very rare to be deficient in melatonin. It's largely released or suppressed by our external environment. So the light and the dark of the day when things are darker at night. And this is why, you know, you'll hear the stay away from the bright screens at night because we want to think of your brain as having that sleep switch. When we're afraid of those bright screens, we're turning that sleep switch off in our brain and suppressing that melatonin.

at the time where we want to release it. So when you're taking a supplemental form of melatonin, you're likely not taking the right dose. It's likely not being released in the same way that your body would naturally release it. Now, in saying that, there are individuals who can benefit from melatonin. So if you're someone who travels a lot, you're going through different time zones,

It re-syncs your natural 24-hour clock, right? Your natural circadian rhythms. For some people who are perhaps on some medications, ADHD medications, it can help with that a little bit. But it's being used far too often and far too much because it's also just over-the-counter. It's so readily available. It's not really something that I recommend. I would rather work on circadian.

sleep hygiene, external environments, working on things like incorporating CBT-I, things like that before introducing a melatonin supplement. Now, magnesium, I always say is an M. I'm not a doctor, so always check with your doctor or your naturopath. But magnesium, I always say is an M that I would recommend.

say you could perhaps incorporate that into your daily supplements. I think Health Canada stated that 43% of Canadians were deficient in magnesium. So you can get it from different food sources, but to include a supplement could be something that you can do. It also helps calm the body and mind down, which then in turn can help you sleep better. So there are certain things you can take, but physically,

Things like sleeping pills, the sleep products that are, I'm not a big sleep product pusher because I feel like there often are steps you can take before incorporating and spending the money, let's be honest, on a lot of these things. Yeah. Because I know so many like women obviously encounter serious sleep, like negative sleep impacts of having kids.

I was one of them. What is the age that you would advise people that they can start sleep training? Because so many moms are like, oh my God, like, let me just get to that point. And there's 10 million books on sleep solutions. And, you know, you can start doing this when they're 12 days old. And it's all like very overwhelming for new parents. That is truthfully why I do find that having a sleep coach like Alana is so helpful because

What she was saying made sense. And it's not as though I hadn't been told it in other places before, but having like an individual plan for your family and then someone to like reinforce that you're doing the right thing, just stick it out and sort of like guide you along the way when you're like a sleep deprived new parent. It's invaluable. And I will say full disclosure, like will sleep change forever?

for the better in one night. Like it wasn't perfect, but we saw a sleep improvement the first night. Like my husband and I ran around our condo like giddy and did not know what to do. So what age would you recommend parents can like reach out to you and like,

What's your message to people who are in like week two and are like, dear God? Yeah, I know. It's so hard. Those first four months are the toughest, as you know. You know, to start a formal sleep training plan, like something that we did with Will, anywhere between four to six months of age, you're able to start. Now, that being said, it's never too late. You know, we work with 10-month-old, we work with two-year-olds, I work with 20-year-olds. So it's never too late to incorporate better sleep habits.

But four to six months is a great age to start. That's when their nervous system is starting to develop and we can start taking more control and more consistent routines and set bedtimes and set wake times and set nap times and things like that. In that, for parents who are listening who have babies in that fourth trimester, so that's that zero to four month of age,

It's hard. It's tough. But what I always tell parents at that age is there's nothing you are doing right now that cannot be undone. So don't worry. There's no rules in those first four months. And unfortunately, and I know that I add to this, but their parents with a two-week-old are reading everything and listening to experts like me and thinking they have to apply all the things to like a two-week-old.

No, the only thing you should be focusing on is a safe sleep space. Always. You can incorporate a great bedtime routine. But in terms of like set times and, you know, not responding or things like that, like that can all be done later on. It doesn't have to be done right away. So take the pressure off is what I always like to tell the fourth trimester parents.

Sarah, you had a question. I'll piggyback off of Caitlin for one thing. If you had to suggest maybe one resource specific to parents and one resource to any human trying to improve their sleep habits, and we can link in the show notes, what are like two of your favorite maybe books or anything you've co-written on or...

Well, obviously, goodnightsleepsite.com. But a great book that saved me when I was in it was Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Mark Weisbluth. I really like that book because I feel like he touches on a lot of different parenting styles. So that can suit many different parenting philosophies and families.

Um, for adults, let me get back to you on that and you can link it because I can't think of it right now, but there's so many. Just notes to self in conclusion to summarize. I'm going to throw it to you, Alana. What are, what are those four or five points that are going to help people literally this week sleep a little better and, and start down that path of finding a restful sleep again. And like you said, it's never too late to,

to retrain your mind and your body. And even if you've slept shitty for 15 years, you can help yourself. So as we say goodbye, what are a few of those things? We need to help Sarah because... I'll tell you, I just looked at my sleep, my stuff on my phone, and my average sleep is five and a half hours. Okay. It's not terrible. Really? That's not terrible. That's not terrible. You know, we often hear the seven to eight hours, but I always like to extend it to like six to nine. So if you can increase it to six,

Great. Anything less than six, you probably do need a little bit more, but it's not terrible. So where do you start? Maybe those are the parting words. Yeah. Yeah. The four or five things that you think. I'm going to say one is when you're creating your sleep plan. If you're taking all of what we talked about or just

of what we talked about. Give yourself time. A lot of it is changing habit. It takes 21 days to change a habit. So like an exercise plan or a nutrition plan, we can't go to the gym once and get the body we want. We can't eat one healthy meal and get the results that we want. God damn it. That's just unfair. It just doesn't work.

that way. So same with sleep. Like you can't incorporate a great bedtime routine one night and expect to see the results. You have to keep chipping away at it. Patience. Patience, exactly. And commitment and consistency. One thing we didn't really touch on that I want to make sure that I talk about and I'll talk really briefly about it is sleep environment. It is so important to create

a sleep-like sanctuary in your bedroom. You should walk into your bedroom and have that instant association between calming, calmness, relaxation, and sleep. So when we're using our bedroom as our home office or our laundry room or entertainment center or home gym, I understand logistically, you might not have a choice. It might have to be your home office, but

But clear that clutter away before you go to bed. Focus on your five senses. What do you need to see, hear, smell, taste, and touch that is specific to your sleep needs that's going to help you sleep better? And the last tip I'm going to give you is stress management tools. I mean, there's so much information out there. We have a lot of information on our website. You know, the reason why we're

in such a sleep deprived society right now also is our stress and our anxiety is at an all time high and that's not gonna help us sleep better. So incorporating proper stress management tools throughout the day. So much of what we do throughout the day and in the morning can help us sleep at night. Don't just focus on night stuff. Alana McGinn, you have been so remarkable. I'm telling you, this could be like a three hour conversation. Don't lose hope guys. If you're struggling with your sleep, I really do recommend you go to goodnightsleepsite.com.

It's all going to be in the notes. Alana, thank you so much. I think it's something people are much more aware of for their health, for their mental health, for their physical health. But anyway, on behalf of me and Caitlin and Sarah, thanks for being with us on this virgin voyage of the Jan Arden show. On the

Women in Media Network. Thank you so much for having me. I hope you'll come back. I hope you'll be a regular with us. I would love it. We're going to get t-shirts made. So as soon as we have the t-shirts made for the show, we're going to send you one. I will wear it with pride. And have a good sleep, everybody. Thanks for listening. Hit subscribe. Go to Jan Arden pod.com. The Jan Arden podcast is available on Spotify, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next time. Totally do.

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