A Return to Live Music (but not brunch)
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Welcome to the Jan Arden Podcast. We're happy that you're here to listen to the show. We've got a... Okay, just stop. We already have a theme song. I was liking that. Thank you. I'm here with Caitlin Green, Adam Karsh. We're so happy to be here. We have, we've done over a hundred shows, guys.

But get your head around that. Yeah. That's crazy. All through COVID, all through our most difficult times in our lives, even when we had bread in the oven that we had to check constantly. Anyway, it's pretty cool. So thanks, team. We've come a long way. We really have. And thank you to everyone who's been listening and subscribing and downloading and letting us know that we're not just talking to ourselves. Yeah.

Oh, man. Yeah, it's pretty incredible when Caitlin, when you mentioned that to me a few days ago, I was like, what in the actual? That's a lot of conversations. That's a lot.

We just wanted to throw some props to everybody who's taken us dog walking and listening to us in the van. And you know you can get us on all your streaming services, Spotify, iTunes. We're on iHeartRadio. It's easy to find. Hit that subscribe button. Hit that one. Hit this one. And you can just have us pop up every week and you don't even have to go searching for us.

us. Anyway, right out of the box, we all pretend to like things that we don't like to endear ourselves to our peers. It's a thing. You know, you'll have a group of people having a chat about liking this show. Oh, is anybody watching Succession? And everyone's like, I love Succession. What if you're the guy that doesn't like Succession? And you say, oh yeah, I really, it's cool. It's a thing. I've definitely pretended to like music because I...

Cause I work in radio. So you love music. You're making a general statement. I love music, certain types of music. I have pretended to like songs and artists and certain artists, new songs that I don't just because we have to talk about it on the air. So I'm like this new one from so-and-so really, I thought she was going to name people, but we're not going to get that. No. And it's never usually the same artist. It's not like, I can't think of too many artists that I really can't stand, but yeah,

it's like a new song that just falls flat and you have to hype it up because it's the new single from an artist that you play regularly. And I just have to be like, great. And the second that we turn it off, I'm like, oh, thank goodness. Especially coming into the studio.

Yeah, that happens less and less. So you do that less and less in person. But yeah, that would be kind of a common thing. One thing I do pretend to like, and we discussed this on The Morning Show not that long ago, is I have pretended in the past, and I'm now over pretending, but we used to pretend that I liked brunch. Meet me tomorrow for brunch.

What's brunch? You'd love it. It's not quite breakfast. It's not quite lunch, but it comes with a slice of cantaloupe at the end. You don't get completely what you would at breakfast, but you get a good meal. I don't think so. You don't like brunch? That is so random. I don't like it. I've never liked it. I love brunch. I don't like brunch. I don't like it.

I don't like it. Okay. But walk me through why it's a, it's a meal. It's, it's a breakfasty kind of meal at noon. Like what, what, what, what's not to like? It's too late for breakfast and it, it usurps lunch, which is a superior meal. It is responsible for lunchtime erasure and lunch is a better meal. I would rather have a sandwich or pasta or a glass of wine. Then I would rather have a $40 dribbling of eggs and,

that I had to wait in line for in Toronto because that's such a thing for brunch. You have to wait half an hour longer for $40 eggs. And then they're like, oh, you know what we have is bottomless Prosecco. So then they give you the world's cheapest Prosecco. I was just going to say the endless mimosa.

Oh my gosh. The bottomless mimosas drive me because it's just whatever Prosecco. And sometimes it's flat and they give you concentrated orange juice. Sometimes it's not even fresh squeezed and they just price gouge you. And the whole thing is very unsatisfying to me. And at the end of the day, I would have rather eaten when I woke up, which is usually closer to 8am anyways, or I want lunch. So Adam, please speak because I know you want to like throw your

opinion in there and I want to hear if because you seem like a guy that would really like brunch I love brunch eggs benedict is my jam egg gravy no say no to egg I love eggs benedict and I think we've talked about this because of intermittent fasting my window of eating is 11 to 7 so for me brunch is so brunch yeah I love brunch brunch I have brunch every day I love brunch

11 to 7. So you, how does that work? Oh, you can only eat between 11 a.m. and 7 p.m. Yeah. Correct. All right. Okay. So brunch, I literally have brunch every day. So what do you eat though? Sometimes a smoothie. I have a pretty small rotation. Sometimes a smoothie. I like eggs and toast. You guys are seriously killing me. The both of you are just like, well, go ahead.

Go ahead. I mean, you do. But you do have go-to meals. I do. And my favorite thing. We all do. We all do. I think I could eat a tuna sandwich every day of my life for the rest of my life. Let me interject. That isn't brunch. You're eating lunch and it's at 11 a.m. You don't like brunch. I'm talking about brunch.

I have eggs and avocado toast and that's brunch, isn't it? Okay. That's brunchy for sure. For $27.99. I'm talking about brunch. You go to a restaurant and everyone's like, let's have brunch. And then like you wait in line and then there's like a giant stack of pancakes that they put ice cream on top of. And then it's $37 and it's just, it's enough. Okay. Let me, let me reframe it. I don't want to go for brunch. I just want to eat brunchy food. Okay.

Is that better? That's a bit better for sure. Cause food is just food, but I don't like the fanfare and I don't like the price and I don't like the whole vibe that it happens. Maybe this is a Toronto thing. Maybe people are screaming at me in their cars. Like this is a Toronto thing. Probably. No, it's, it's Vancouver walking to the studio every morning. Cause Bob likes Bob rock. My producer likes to work quite early. And I had about a 10 block walk to the studio and I went by this place called jam. So a little, little shout out to jam in Vancouver, uh,

Um, didn't matter if it was Monday, it didn't matter what day of the week it was. There was a lineup and I'm going to say, and I'm not exaggerating 60 people deep, um,

So people on their phone and there was actually breaks in the lineup so that people could go into their shops because of course the lineup went down the sidewalk and people couldn't get into their stores. So they literally had to put some cones up orange cones to keep people from not standing in front of their florist shop or the vacuum repair place. And I said to one of the guys in the studio, Adam, his name was Adam too. I said, what's it with jam? Like what? He goes, well,

Yeah. He said, there's nothing for you there. He said to me, he said, there's nothing. I said, don't they have like toast? He goes, yeah, you could have toast and hash browns. He goes, I order it to go. I walk by everybody in the line. I pick up my little brown box and I leave.

But he said it is the most, I mean, it's very pricey jam. You're very pricey. Like an avocado toast would just be, you could buy a sack of avocados and be happy for two months. So it is a thing. I would never, ever wait in a line to eat anywhere. I turn around and go.

I just leave. I'm with you there. Yeah, Lee and I, my friend tried to get into a place a couple days ago. I was in Vancouver. And she said, very casually, it's a two-hour wait for the bar. And I said, excuse me, to eat? She goes, yeah. Like, that was nothing. We just turned around and left.

Of course. No, thank you. Because it's just, it's a real thing. And some restaurants don't allow for reservations, which I kind of can't stand. And so they want you to wait around. I don't know why this makes me laugh so much. It's just weird to me. Like the thought of a two-hour lineup outside of a restaurant that's then going to overcharge you for eggs. It like doesn't make any sense. It's like...

alternate universe like Dickens novel where you think everybody should be waiting for their like rations of gruel, but instead they're waiting for the privilege to overpay for eggs. It makes me, it honestly makes me a bit crazy as you can tell because I just also, I'm a sandwich girl. I want a sandwich. Do you know how many times I would go? I do like a sandwich. I would get dragged to a brunch, like a girl's brunch and I'd be like, oh God,

God, I've got to go to a girl's brunch. And I would go and I'd get there and they'd all be like, bottomless mimosa time. And I just wanted a beer and a sandwich. And I was like, can someone get me a beer or like a salad or a nice pasta dish and a glass of wine or a beer? And it'd be like, no, we can't. That doesn't happen until two. But you can have bottomless mimosas. Have you tried a Bellini? I'm like, no, you're putting peach cocktail with cheap Prosecco and you're charging me $17 a glass. No, thank you. I don't want that. No. No.

No, I'm, you know, give me a baguette and like a bottle of sparkling water from the fancy part of the drugstore. And I'm good to go. Like I go to Cobb's Bakery and there's one in a little mall called West Hills by me. And I go in with such good intentions. I'll get my

coffee from Starbucks at Safeway because every Starbucks around me has closed down. What's going on Starbucks? All the ones I used to go to are now, you can go to the standup Starbucks in Safeway. And I'm like, okay, I'll go in there. So I get my coffee, my decaf, my why bother coffee. I go to Cobb's bread. This is my idea of brunch, I guess is why I'm talking about this. And I get some holy flax bread. And then I'm like, I'm just going to pick up a baguette for later.

that effing thing that and I feel such a sense of remorse and shame because I literally walk into my house 30 minutes later with a nub the heel of the baguette and I'm like I just ate I got never mind that it was a foot and a half long and then I'm thinking why am I still hungry so that is my idea of brunch I always just feel mortified I do it once a week I'm not gonna lie

But I know we were talking about things we pretend to like, but I'm with you. I'm not brunchy. And I understand you completely, Adam. I think it's amazing. Along these lines, is there slogans that you guys hate that people are repeating? Because I know during COVID,

There's things that has come up a lot and I'm guilty of it when people use the word narrative a lot. I have heard that so much. Well, you know, that narrative is growing very tight. There's just things that are happening. Managing client expectations. I know this hasn't been without challenges. I mean, there's phrases that have popped up that I'm literally, I just, I want to cut my ear off.

Yeah, those are good ones. Corporate jargon tends to be a trigger for just about everybody because it feels like robotic non-human speak. It feels like we're trying to find a way to say things that you'd normally just say as a human being without a human's touch to it. It's weird. It is weird. It's unnerving. I hate corporate speak. Talk to me like a human being. Don't use corporate speak around me. It makes me nuts. Give me an example, Adam. Bandwidth. How about just, do you have time to do this?

You ever heard that? Yes, I've heard that. Yes. It's just I don't think that the people who say that are bad people. It's just don't just say, are you do you have availability? Are you available to do this? Do you have time? Do you have the bandwidth to complete this task?

Bandwidth is my internet. It's true. Or the like when you say and you circling back, right? Just say, did you forget that I emailed you this? Can we table that for later? How about let's talk about it later. Circle back is good. Can we circle back? Yeah, there's things and then it just all gets picked up and regurgitated and thrown into this pile. Okay, we got to go.

We're going to circle back. You're listening to the Jad Arden podcast. We're going to circle back. We've run out of bandwidth.

He brought his son, got his dad's face. We ordered crab cakes, table with mad plates. R&B playlists, I'm in blast space. She told me about her last date, I had to laugh in her face. Yo, that's brunch on Sundays. Welcome back to the Jen Arden Podcast. Caitlin is going to reveal one of the most loathed, I guess, pieces of business jargon that is spewed into the atmosphere today.

Are you ready? Can we have some kind of a drum roll from you, Adam, please? This was the number one most pretended to like thing. So it wasn't corporate jargon. This was the thing that most people said they pretend to like. Baby in bridal showers. Yeah. People don't want to go.

They pretend to like them. They pretend they're excited. They go out of the goodness of their heart and because they like the person involved very much, but they don't like the actual event itself for a variety of quite logical reasons. Think about them.

I'm at the age now where I don't have a lot of people getting married. I do have a lot of people getting divorced and I have been to some divorce gatherings. You have? Tell me about a divorce gathering. Well, you just, usually the girls get together and they drink, you know, cheap Prosecco and sometimes it can be in a brunch situation. No. Well, you know, you get together and you do, you celebrate, you celebrate, uh,

the divorce and there is some gift giving. I've been to a couple now. That's nice. And they're pretty funny.

And you get to talk about how much you hated the guy or the girl, whoever they're divorcing. And then things like vibrators get unwrapped in the restaurant and everyone's embarrassed because your partner's now gone. It's just, it's very embarrassing and, and silly, but inevitably there's a vibrator that is open. You look at the package, everybody giggles and they're like acting like they don't know what it is and, you know, things like that. And, and then you, and everyone splits the bill. Like,

Don't get me started about splitting bills. I don't like it. I am the first person. I will literally grab the server going by and say, do not bring a bill to these people, take my credit card and put it all on here. And I don't want to hear another word about it. So when it comes, it's looked after. I can't think the last time I went through that was probably 10 years ago. I was in New York somewhere and there was,

I think there was like 12 people at this dinner and they were actually going to split the bill 12 ways. And I didn't pick it up. Somebody else did, who I won't name, Bruce Allen, who's always incredibly generous. But I don't know what got me talking about that. But yeah, divorce party.

So I have, I have not been invited yet. I haven't been invited. You're not old enough. You're in your thirties. Wait till you're in your fifties. Although I'm not going to lie to you. I know people who are divorcing, so there's not having parties about it. But so I look forward to attending one of those. I don't, I don't mean look forward. Maybe that's the wrong word, but if I go to one, I'm sure I'll, I'll get back to you guys on what it entails.

Just a caveat to that. I'm not saying when the person is in the throes of really horrible emotional heartbreak, this is usually two years later when the divorce papers have come through. So I should, I, I, I, yeah, I want to, um,

preface what everything I just said by, it's not like you're celebrating somebody's really horrible experience. It's usually an arduous process of money, splitting things up, blah, blah, blah, that's done. And it's all over. Yeah. That's a very different vibe to be fair. So yeah, I mean, bridal showers, baby showers, people...

They don't like them. They just don't like them. And I think it's, I, I have a theory and I think it's because of the games. Oh, and the gifts, gifts, like gifts or gifts. Like, you know, they happen. Gifts happen. So what can you do about it? But the games, have you guys ever been to a baby shower where the game is the open the diaper and guess the chocolate bar inside? No, I've never been to a baby shower. No, no, no, no. What? No, stop it.

It's a real thing. Stop saying what you're just saying. You open a display.

You open a disposable diaper and there's a fricking O'Henry in there or something. And you've got to guess what it is. Guess what though? Chocolate bar is Marie. Yeah. A sweet Marie, a wonder bar. You know, I want no part of this. Maybe you get a very, maybe you get some, some M&Ms, which is a pretty easy one. And you think there's a medical condition happening, but like, what is the point of this? Tell me you don't eat. Well, and that's the, okay. So there's always, there's always the one zany aunt.

And she's the one who's going to eat it. And she's like, this one's my favorite. And you have to watch her eat it right out of the thing. And she gets a forced laugh and everyone, they were having a lobotomy. It's not great. And so I have been to baby showers that have been reworked so that they are like both, both sexes go both, you know? So it's like,

Everyone can go. It's not just a bunch of gals getting together. And now they'll kind of do everyone a favor of having maybe a couple drinks available to you if you want. There's still lots of tea and lemonade, but it's not just that. And you don't have games and you don't have a set agenda. It's not like pin the tail on the baby is happening.

which is another thing that I've seen at parties. And so this is just get together, congratulate the person, congratulate the couple, whoever, you know, is there, is there. And you pop in, you give them a really nice gift because it is a beautiful time in someone's life, but you don't make it into this weird open the diaper game. I just, it's so bizarre. I remember going on one of those websites that people post a lot now. Is it a gift registry? Is that what they call it? Right. Yeah. They have lots of those.

And I just remember looking at my friend, Tamara was getting married and she was older. She was in her forties, but I went on to their gift registry. This was like two years ago, just before COVID they got married. There was a washer and dryer on their gift registry. I'm like, well, that's a little out of my price range. I think it was $2,400, but it really made me laugh. What about serving bowls?

What about a toaster? What happened to a toaster? They had like an espresso coffee machine that was $370. I think those registries need updating because some of those things people will see them and they're like, what are you out of your mind? But it's a group gift idea. So I think they need to have the like single gift, dual gift, group gift idea category. Cause like no one's, I mean, maybe someone really rich is going to buy you a washer and dryer, but most people are going to go in on it with other people. I would hope so.

This is kind of along those lines. I read a very alarming but yet comforting article last night laying in bed. 28 million Americans, sorry, this was an American thing, live alone. Oh, that's a lot. 28 million Americans live alone. It's still socially shunned to live by yourself.

But these people that they talk to, men and women, are loving it. Loving the remote, what time they go to bed, how long they read, how long they look at their phone, what they cook, what they eat. Yes, there's challenges. Most grocery stores are built for multiple users. You know, you can't just buy one yogurt. You need a giant tub or you need to buy six. Right.

You know, you don't share expenses. If you want a new couch, you're kind of on your own. I live alone. I have for the last, well, I've lived alone my whole life. Let's not mince words here. I've not been single except for this last five years. So I have cohabitated going back and forth to two homes, but I've never moved anybody into my house. Anyway, I just, it was kind of a relief to read that

The majority of people that they spoke to that live by themselves were really, really happy. And they found much more social and outgoing than people that were in partnerships and with families and living in a multi-person house. I found that really interesting. So you felt like it was finally like more reflective of what living alone actually looks like instead of the societal version where you're like there with 10 cats and, you know, not really living your best life. Well, I do have 70 cats.

No, I don't have any pets right now. But really, the guy that wrote it for the Atlantic magazine, really, it was just a fascinating article about...

what the perceptions still are that if you are not partnered, you do not have a complete life. And you wonder how much of that is so dated and so dragged from three or 400 years ago when we had to have, we had to have somebody with us, safety in numbers, that whole idea, but modern world. And anyway, I just,

we've talked about this three of us. Is it, is it great during COVID to be by yourself or to be in a relationship? And I think the people that were in relationships were like all the good things came up. Anyway, I'm rambling now. Do you think, I have a question. Do you think that Max Kerman from the Arkells lives alone or does he live with the whole band? I like to imagine that the whole band lives together in one Brady Bunch type house. You have to stay with us to find out because Max Kerman is up next.

What a charismatic, talented young man. The Arkells have recently done some sold-out shows at the Budweiser Amphitheater in Toronto. It looked so incredibly exciting, so I'm going to make sure that I ask him about that. But stay tuned. Jan Arden Podcast, Max Kerman is up next. And let's just find out if he's living alone or living the Vita Loca.

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As promised on our very, very impressive podcast, we've made bigger promises, but this one actually showed up for us. This is, this is, um, Max Kerman is with us. I will say lead singer, writer, the Arkells, one of,

Canada's great rock and roll success stories, if I may be so bold. We follow each other on social media, on Instagram at least. Max, thanks for doing this. Hey, my pleasure. I've been a fan of yours for a very long time now. So it's great to talk to you. You mentioned...

My hair. Yes. Before we went to air your, your hair looks amazing and I've seen it many, many ways. Cause I've been, I've been submerged in your, your songs and your videos and your hair has seen a lot of different vibes. Yeah. Well, the thing is, so I did like a COVID hairdo where I just kind of let it go for a long time. And that's sort of been the state for like the last year and a half.

But we did this thing where we got to play as part of the opening night with the Toronto Maple Leafs. - I saw it, I saw it. - All right, so we were approached by the Leafs. They said, "We want you to do something to kick off opening night. It's kind of a momental, monumental occasion. - I'm gonna say yes. - Momental, yeah. Where people are gonna be back in the stands and we want you to do something kind of special for it."

You know, the logistics of pulling off a live performance, even in the best of times, it's kind of hard, let alone during COVID and when there's about to be a hockey game played on the ice. It was one thing to sing the national anthem. It's another thing to have five guys with their instruments rocking out new for the sound and look okay.

So we had a brainstorm. We're like, what if we did kind of the Saturday Night Live thing where we're kind of walking through the hallways, like the behind the scenes look before, you know, before we get to the main attraction, which is like being in the bowl with all the fans. And so they liked that idea. And then we said, why don't we just film it like twice?

two weeks before just to get it in the can. We can mix it properly. We can color it and we can just make it look great. We can run it a bunch of times to make sure that it feels good. And so they signed off on that. So, uh,

Uh, we actually filmed it two weeks before the home opener. And then the last five seconds of the performance, I come out in real time from behind the curtain and I'm wearing the same outfit and I go, all right, you've gotten your feet Toronto. Let's go. So I couldn't cut my hair. So for two weeks I had to make sure, because if I had got a haircut absentmindedly and I was just, you know, it was nice and trimmed, people would have known, uh,

you know, this isn't the same guy. This isn't happening live. I disagree. They would have said, oh my God, when did he have time to cut his hair before he got on stage?

No, that's a fantastic idea. Was that exciting? Would you call that a highlight? Like, are you a Leafs fan? Be honest. No, I am a Leafs fan. I grew up in Toronto and then I went to Hamilton for university and that's where I met the guys. So highlight for you because you are a Leafs fan. I don't even, I still like the Montreal Canadiens like from 1975. That's where my heart is.

Yeah, I do love the Leafs. I've made friends with the general manager of the team, Kyle Dubas, who's like my age and he's a music fan and his wife has some mutual friends of mine in Hamilton. And

And I know some of the guys on the team. So there's a personal interest there. But more than anything, it's something to do. Like, I don't know if I know you stay busy, Jan. You're one of the best at just like keeping going. And for us, it's like during COVID or like what like this week, what is the fun thing we're going to do this week? That'll be kind of creatively stimulating and something to look forward to and something to accomplish. So I think that, you know, during the last 18 months, it's like every day we wake up and go, all right, what's the fun thing we can do today?

uh, that will occupy ourselves. Uh, how's it been for you, Jan? Like, what do you, have you struggled with that? Or do you, do you feel like you're, you're busy as hell? I, I'm not going to lie because of where I live. I'm in rural Southern Alberta right now. I'm, I'm in Vancouver. I'm at Bruce Allen's office just because I have little things to do in Vancouver. So that's why all these plaques are here behind me. They're not me. It's like,

Ryan Adams and Buble and screw those guys. Just screw those guys. But I, my life was really unchanged with the exception of me leaving on a plane every week and going somewhere. I was just at home and I'm not around anybody, but I was scared the first few months to be honest, Max. And then I kind of just settled into,

you know, feeding birds and just not wearing pants. And, you know, I think I was just following along with everybody else in the world. And, but I felt less panicked as time went on, but I did a lot of writing. Did you write, did you write songs? Yeah, we, we got a lot of writing done. We kind of discovered that we can do a lot from the confines of our own sort of personal studios. So like Tony would send over a nugget of an idea, our keyboard player, and then I'd sing something over top of it and we'd send it to the next guy and

And that's kind of how...

the band recorded our acoustic record, Campfire Chords, which was a reaction to the pandemic. It was like, okay, people are going to be hanging at home. They want to be soothed. They want to feel good. They need some good tunes to put on while they're in their backyard or on their balcony or whatever. And that's how that record was made. It was just by us sending songs along to each other, which is a new way of working for us. We've never done that before. But I'm glad it's part of our arsenal now, so to speak.

Well, digital stuff has just opened up the whole world. I remember just having a conversation with Bob Rock like eight months ago. He lives in Maui.

And Bob, for people that don't know, is an amazing producer. He's just worked with so many phenomenal bands, ACDC, Metallica, for all you guys out there that are into that. Bob had so much to do with those massive, huge albums. But he was just like, Jan, for the first time in my entire career, I've been able to phone guys up and get drum tracks from the best players, the best bass players. They all have home studios. And he goes, you should hear the stuff that I'm getting. That just...

guys are just sending me files to Maui. I'm like, I never even thought of that. Everyone's got home studios.

Yeah, it's pretty amazing, I gotta say. You know, I feel like part of the lore of being in a band is like, you know, the five guys getting together in a room, jamming it out. And sometimes that's successful. Broads, blow, fans going. All that good stuff. Going for four days. I don't know if rock and roll looks like that anymore. Thank God we'd all be dead. No, we have a pretty lame band when it comes to that stuff. But I will say we...

The idea of other guys kind of like just breathing over your neck as you're trying to play a song is actually kind of counterproductive. I think, I think if, if, if everybody had like, Hey, just can you fuck off for, you know,

three hours and let me work through a thing without the rest of the band going, Oh no, no. Yeah. Ooh, no. Can we try? You know what I mean? So I think being able to do things by yourself at home lent to a new kind of artistic freedom, which was cool. So we're always trying to learn and evolve. You know, it's like we have, we just put out our sixth album and I know. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. And you know, we we definitely wanted,

to do things differently. You know, each record we want to try to do things differently because I think things get stale pretty quick if you just go back to the same bag of tricks. So we worked with more co-writers, different producers, songs started from different places. And I think the album still feels like us because it's us playing and singing, but it feels also totally new and different for our audience. Do you think of yourself as a good singer, Max? No, bad singer. Okay, I always want to ask

like singers this question of what their perception is of what they do um you know i've seen so many clips of you guys playing your songs these epic songs in front of 20 000 people everyone's singing along with you like that's got to be so bizarre it always sounds good when 20 000 people sing along it does yeah

It's true. Well, you know, I always say that like in most cases, the only difference between in like the quality of voice between like the singer in a band versus say the guitarist or keyboard player is

The only difference is that the singer wants to really do it. Oftentimes the guitarist and the piano player are like, I can do it, but I'm just not that interested. So actually somebody tweeted at me like an hour ago asking if we'd ever do the national anthem. And I was like, absolutely not. No, I said absolutely not. That's a job for real singers and I'm a fake singer. So have you done the national anthem, Jan? Yeah.

I did a basketball, an all-star basketball game in Houston, Texas. Oh, wow. No, here's a perfect example of Canada. I'm doing Canada by myself in like a lumberjack coat.

you know, singing just acapella. The American version in like 2007 or something was Beyonce. She had like fans that rolled onto the basketball court. And I was just like, and Beyonce was part of, you know, the band, you know, Destiny's Child at that point. But anyway, if there was ever a moment where you're like, there's Canada and they're the United States of America. Um,

Obviously, I didn't get to meet her or anything. But anyway, we're talking to Max from the Arkells. We're going to be right back. This is the Jan Orton Podcast. Welcome back. Talking to... Do I even need to introduce this guy again? Max from the Arkells. You guys, what is it with Hamilton? And I know a lot of journalists and interviewers say, what's going on in Hamilton? A lot of great rock and roll coming out of Hamilton. Steel Town? What is it?

- Well, the band met at McMaster University. So I think, you know, a lot of people assume that like our parents are all steel workers. - No, I was totally kidding, but a lot of you guys are from Hamilton, are you not?

Well, so the band's all from Southern Ontario. We had Nick, who grew up in London, Mike from Guelph, Tony Mississauga, Tim Newmark. I'm from Toronto. But the band, you know, we met as 17-year-olds in Hamilton and McMaster University. And those were the first, like, rock and roll clubs that we played. And I think a big part of the band's success is because we are a few years behind the

the great generation of Canadian indie rock music. So when we were 19, 18 years old, we got to go see Arcade Fire who were coming up, Broken Social Scene, Weaker Vans, The Constantines, The Stills, like all these, you know, I'm not familiar with any of those people, but keep talking. You know, um,

And yeah, so, so we got to see these great bands that were doing like really kind of really well internationally and, you know, performing on Letterman, all this stuff coming through Hamilton and playing small shows. And then we could go see them the next night in Guelph. We could see the weaker bands and the Constantine's and just all these great indie rock bands from that era. So it,

I think we learned so much from getting to play in those same venues the next week and just learning how to do our thing while also just stealing lots of songwriting tricks from these guys. Oh, absolutely. You know, Sam Roberts, you know, the reason why Nick is in the band is he introduced himself to me on the second day of school at McMaster.

And so I was wearing a Sam Roberts band t-shirt and he said, Oh, I like Sam Roberts. I was like, I just saw him last week. And did you play an instrument? And he's like, I kind of play the bass. I was like, you're in the band. He's like, what band? I was like, we'll figure it out. So like, that's really how the band started. And I think it's just our proximity to Toronto, like kind of allowed us to see lots of great stuff that was international coming through town, but also it allowed us to, you know, you know, booking a gig at the Casbah or the underground, these places in Hamilton was really, really,

kind of easier because we knew the people running the clubs. And so I think like those formative years, I think really made a, made a big difference. And then just as we were graduating, we're all good boys. We all got our four year undergrad BA in political science. And we started working with a manager like right out of school. And we got to go on tour opening for the black crows that summer and Alexis on fire that summer. So we like, we've been very lucky that we it's been,

It's been a very, very steady incline. There's never been any like, oh, fuck, the last two years have been hard. It's always like generally been going in the right direction, building on top of like the last show. And that's how we've sort of built things. Your clips from the amphitheater, your first shows back live were really very emotional. I think when I saw you guys live,

step out on the stage and just the exaltation, if I may be so bold of the audience, your fans, people that were so happy to be shoulder to shoulder. And you did three sold out shows. Yeah. That must've felt surreal. Yeah. It was pretty amazing. You know, I've been saying that like, you know, in the past 10 years or whatever, we've, we average about like, you know, 130 shows a year in the last two years we've averaged.

We averaged in the last two years one and a half shows per year. So we were very excited to do it. It was interesting. It was a lot of prep because normally when you're on tour, you sort of build on the last thing you did and you sort of develop a good set list and all the bits throughout the show, the intros, the outros, all that stuff is from just consistently doing it.

in preparing for these shows like oh god we're kind of starting from scratch like how do we do this so the first night i actually probably didn't really take it in because i was just like what the fuck are the lyrics okay what are the chords where am i supposed to be during this song but by night three everyone's kind of getting loose and a little bit drunk and just having the best time on stage because we could just really enjoy ourselves so we're happy that we got three shows in there because uh it was uh it was it was really a great thing to enjoy and you know we have

you know, a great audience, you know, especially around here who were excited to see us. But a lot of people came to the show who were just looking to feel the energy of live music and other people's company. And, you know, people, I got a few, few people say to me, like, I'd never seen the band or really heard much of your music before, but it was one of my favorite show I've been to just because just like being around people felt so good. So we're, we're happy to be a part of all that.

What do you think are the differences? If there is any, I noticed differences, but I want to know your take on American audiences versus Canadian audiences. I know you guys have those U S shows coming up, you know, on your tour and the venues are a little different than the venues that you play in Canada. So what,

I mean, what are your thoughts on that with COVID and how countries are dealing with this pandemic? America is such a big place. It's hard to say one specific thing about it. Are the audiences, like, do they react to you guys the same way? Are they as enthusiastic? Do they clap? Do they scream? Do they sing along? Is there...

is that all that happens? I think the vibe of the person is the same kind of person, you know, like, I think you're like, you know, somebody who's interested in the kind of music that we're making, uh,

is probably not that dissimilar whether it's in the UK or Germany or the US or Canada. I'd say we have a longer history with Canadian audiences because we've been here touring here longer. So there's just like kind of maybe a deeper connection here. And we're local, like we're one of, you know, one of your own when you're touring through Canada. Well, Canadians are very loyal that way. They really get behind their own and they support you to the end of the end, right?

Yeah, no, and that's an amazing feeling. But we do love a rowdy crowd. You know, it's like I remember we were opening for a Brit named Frank Turner in Sheffield. And it was a real rowdy crowd. And we were opening and they were seeming to be having a great time, really kind of embracing us as the openers.

But during the last song, they started chanting, your shit, your shit. And I was like, this is so confusing. You look like you're happy, but you're saying your shit. And then...

And then after the show, so I was like, all right, here's our last song. Okay, we're the Arkells. I was just kind of bewildered. And then I went to the merch after our set and a bunch of people came up to me and said, we were singing Yorkshire. We're from Yorkshire, Sheffield, Yorkshire. And it was a sign of, it was a chant of affection.

That's what the locals say, the rowdy locals will say in Sheffield if they're happy with you. Yorkshire, Yorkshire. I'm going to start doing that just to people on the street and then when I get confronted, I'm going to say, no, I'm saying Yorkshire. I love the puddings. I love a Yorkshire pudding. Exactly.

Speaking of food, we love to talk about food on this podcast. What do you like eating on the road? Like on a day off? I know with our gang, everyone's so grateful to go and have a nice meal somewhere. Just get out of catering. Get away from catering.

Well, I think we try to do it region specific, right? So, and there's also, you develop relationships with places like in Seattle, there's this tiny little hole in the wall tie place that we always go to. It's right near the university. If we're in Southern California, we're eating a lot of Mexican food, New York, we're getting some pizza,

You know, it's like, it kind of just depends where you're at. But it is fun to like go to a town that you've been to a number of times. There's a good Mexican place in Calgary, actually, that we like that's around the corner from Hotel Arts. You know Hotel Arts in Calgary? Yes, I do know Hotel Arts. I've been there a couple times. The kids seem to like that. There's a pool. There's a pool on the roof that the kids like to go and have a Singapore sling, if I may be so...

Ooh. That's so cosmopolitan of you. Um, yeah, so we, we do, the band really does look for D also like the local coffee shops, like a big part of my routine on tour is going out for like a run or walk in the morning and just trying to like, just meet the local. So like in usually in most places, even in towns that feel like a little down and out, you can find the area with the cool coffee shop and go there. Um, so that's something we look forward to. Um,

Hey, I know we're slightly running out of time here, but Jen, I need to ask you. Okay. So I was hanging out with our mutual friend, Randy Lennox the other day. And you know, you've made the foray into acting. I want to know how hard is it? And can I do that too? Can I get my own show? Do you think what,

Max? Just call it Max? No, no, you can just call it Max. Listen, calling it Jan was like an 11th hour thing. It was like a gallows decision. I think my name was like Nancy or some freaking thing. I mean, I was a singer-songwriter, then CTV, CBC, or someone's going to kill me. CTV was like, no, let's just call it Jan. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. I have to learn 15 pages of dialogue every day.

For six weeks. And I work with a guy 10 hours a day that follows me around. And all we do is run lines. And I work three days ahead because I don't want to slow everybody up. It's incredibly difficult. I sing with a teleprompter. You're telling me you're at the, you're singing, you know, your first few shows trying to remember lyrics for the Michael Buble actually bought me a teleprompter, which is a glorified computer sitting by your feet that someone has to scroll as you're singing.

I don't use it a lot, but I really depend on it now. And that was 15 years ago. Oh, wow. I...

I mean, I've got 15 records out. There's no way. I don't know those songs. I'll ask people, did I write that? They're like, yes, you idiot. Oh, it sounded kind of familiar. But anyway, you can absolutely act. You can absolutely act. I know you can. You're very handsome. You're charismatic. You've got versatile hair. And I think people that are creative, people that are creative,

People that are creative create. You know, Joni Mitchell considers herself a painter before she's a songwriter and a singer, which blows my mind. She goes, I am a painter.

That happens to sing. That's awesome. Well, I know you may be, you know, it's, that seems like a lot of memorization. Like, cause I don't have a teleprompter, but like I do stress out every time we do like a new cover song. Get a teleprompter. Yeah. I might be there. Yeah. I might be getting there. Well, listen, I know. What are you? 35, 34? 34. Yeah. 34. Okay. Okay.

Well, I was why I waited till I was 45 years old is beyond my rational thought process because I would panic and we did covers quite often. You know, people want to hear something. We try it. Now it's at my feet. It's plugged in in a heartbeat.

And I really don't look at it that much, but it's there. Yeah. And I just sort of glance at it and I'm praying that I can still read it. You know, the font gets bigger every year.

Okay, well, I'll pitch it to the band to see how they feel about it. Honestly, it'll take the pressure off of you. And no one even sees them. They're so clever with how they work now. And I think they even have the ones that are glass that nobody, the audience can't see at all. But it's like Biden giving a speech. They have those glass reflectors. So nobody even sees it. But you, you're the only person that sees it. All right, I'm sold.

I'm going to tell Michael Buble to buy you one. Max Kerman, you are unbelievably talented. I'm really, really thrilled for you guys and your success. And I think you've got thousands and thousands of fans that are going to be so thrilled to see you in the next little while. Going out on the tours that were rebooked 17 times. That's right. Well, thanks so much for having me, Jan. Honestly, we've been listening to you and my family for years. So it's a real honor to chat with you here.

Thank you. I'll see you soon. All right. Thanks guys. I'll throw underpants at you on your next show. Ooh, I love it. We'll get you up for, we'll get you up for a cover. Not my underpants, but somebody's under, you know, I'll get, I'll buy some new ones at Costco. Costco, feel free to sponsor us. Thank you for being here. And we will talk to everybody very, very soon. Totally do.

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