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The Jan Arden Podcast and show, Variety Hour. We're here. If you could only see where I am, ladies and gentlemen, you would be awestruck. I am not at home right now. I probably shouldn't say that I'm in beautiful British Columbia because they don't want Albertans here, because we don't do any contact tracing anymore. We've all gone to hell.
because our government doesn't know what the F it's doing. There's no contact tracing. They're just going to let people wander around. Oh, and by the way, if you do have COVID, don't worry about quarantining. Just go in and cough on some tangerines at the superstore and everything will be fine. Anyway, now that I've got that out, I am here with two amazing human beings. And I say that because they like me. And so in my books...
They're absolutely fabulous, but they are fabulous. They are doing creative things out in the world. They are being innovators. They're entrepreneurial. They are entertaining people, both in their own specific, unique ways. And I think more than anything, what inspires me about Dust and about Peter Breeze is that they are truly themselves.
And who doesn't want to celebrate that in a time where being yourself is probably the best thing you can do for the planet. It's the best thing that you can do for the people around you. And it's the best thing to do for your heart and your spirit and your soul is to claim your own heart, to claim your identity, to just get out there and be loud and proud. And to me,
Both of you, I want you to know how inspiring that is. So welcome, Peter. Welcome, David. I'm going to just, how do you guys want me to refer to you throughout the podcast? You especially, David, because I know you have a few handles and I don't want to screw up in any way of promoting you, promoting your amazing work.
and your Instagram page and all of that. So how you go. My performer name is dust. I go by the moniker mama dust. So you can call me whatever I use. They, them pronouns. If you call me dust or David flip back and forth, whatever feels comfortable for you. I don't really care. Peter, should we call you Bob?
Yeah. Yeah. You can call me, you can call me Bob, Paris Hilton, Oprah, Britney, you know, any of the famous blondes. Yeah. I noticed, I noticed on your, your Twitter moniker, Peter Breeze, and I'm going to, I am going to go back a little bit and I'm going to have you and Dust talk a little bit about kind of how we, you guys got together and how I ended up listening to the podcast that you both collaborated on.
on the Superficial Spirit podcast, which is available on iTunes or all your iTunes. That was Freudian. iTunes, it's for the younger people. iTunes, anyways, go. I'm going to just let you take it away, Peter. Where do we begin?
Where do we begin? Well, you know, I first of all, thank you so much for having us on the show, Jan. Super excited to be here and very surreal. So really appreciate it. The way that this came to be was when the pandemic happened, I was looking for a creative outlet and I decided to do a podcast with the intention of exploring if pop culture is
could have a spiritual quality because when I was young and growing up, I was obsessed with fame, obsessed with celebrities, obsessed with the over-the-top nature of tabloid culture and paparazzi and all these things. So the podcast basically posed that question. Can pop culture be spiritual? And throughout the different episodes, we explore different topics about certain celebrities, about fame in general, about social media, about different kinds of spiritual expression. And
I had known Dust for a while, like we ran in similar circles and had really wanted to do a show about you. Because while I was growing up and obsessed with Britney Spears, obsessed with the Spice Girls and Shania Twain and Madonna, these really over the top icons, I also equally was obsessed with you and you had such a similar impact on me. And I
I have always found it so interesting. And a lot of people close to me have found it interesting. You're so obsessed with these like camp stars and you're also so obsessed with Jan Arden, but how do they fit together? And I was, I knew I could talk till I was blue in the face about it, but it was so great when I connected with Dust because you know, his Twitter, their Twitter handle used to be, this is a Jan Arden Stan account. And when I saw that, I was like, I found my person.
I did see that. I found my person. So when I reconnected with Dust, I knew it was a perfect opportunity to chat about you, Jan. And we really just took a deep dive into what I felt you represented in my personal life, but also in the scope of pop culture for young queer people. And the conversation, I was high afterwards because I had never found another Jan fan ever.
at that level where we could talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. And then the interview stopped and we talked and talked and talked and talked and we created this instant friendship and it was so great and so valuable. Yeah. That, that, that's how, that's how that particular episode came to be. And then, you know, you were so kind and you listened to it and you messaged us and sort of that, that whole spark was, was born. Yeah.
And it was wild. I think for me to be included within, like you said, you and Dust both have been influenced by such big personalities. And I think drag in particular, and Dust can certainly speak to this better than you and I, Peter, is that, you know, it's these big, big personalities that seem to translate really well in the world of drag and
Um, I've seen one person do me in drag many, many years ago. And I laughed and laughed and laughed because it was, it was so over the top and the way the, the wigs that, um, I think it was just in time was the drag queen's name. I, I hope I'm getting that right, but just, just Dean, just Dean time. Um, anyway, so I'm, thank you guys for including me in that group of people. Um, it's, it's really cool. To, um,
Your influence on me we we recorded that podcast episode in like September last year Which is why I was in the throes of potentially moving back to Calgary and We recorded the episode we sat on it for a long time because we were like, oh well Maybe this can become a podcast series like maybe this is something we can expand upon all of these things and then in January Peter and I were talking and
And I was getting ready to do a fundraiser because during COVID, I decided that I wanted to take on, you know, becoming a singer songwriter. I'm very inspired by music and a lot of my act is music based as you saw my Instagram Jan. And so I started to, you know, work towards building this and I told Peter this and Peter was like, okay, well we'll release the podcast episode around your fundraiser launch because the more momentum you
the better it's going to be for you. And when I met with my fundraising team, we were establishing what the goals were going to be for my fundraiser and what it was going to be for me. Goals as I worked towards completing my first studio album. And one of the goals was to get your attention. It was like, first thing that I said, I was like,
I really want acknowledgement from Jan. I really want her presence in my life as I move through this because I connect with your music on a level that is deeply emotional. And that's sort of the direction I wanted to go with my album. I didn't want to go and make a typical drag album, which was like pat your pussy in the club, like collect your money. Like I wanted this, I wanted a deep soul. I wanted to find...
all of those moments in my life and heal them through music. And so when you followed us on Instagram, probably two weeks after my fundraiser launched, it was just a sign that I needed to keep going. And like, it's really funny. We're recording this podcast today because I'm actually finishing up my first single from this project today. Yay!
Yeah, it's a big day for me and I'm so, yeah, it's just, it's amazing. I'm so happy for you, for you both. And I think there's so many beautiful connections that have happened because of COVID. And we can all sit here and think about, oh, when life, you know, back when life was normal and we were doing normal things, but COVID, and I think you did both agree as artists that,
It has been such a catalyst for not waiting for someday. Oh, someday when I, oh, when I get the perfect boyfriend, oh, when this happens, when I have enough money to do that, when I'm living in the right house, when all these things are right, then I'll do it. And that's what people do with someday. And that's how we end up not trying because if we don't try, we don't fail, right?
But you guys are living proof that COVID has pushed you forward, both Peter with the podcast, you know, and Dust, you with going, I am actually going to write music. I'm going to record it. I'm going to perform it. And I'm going to put it out in the world. And that has a lot to do with COVID. What do you think...
The future holds for, I want to say the drag community dust. And then I have a question for you as well, Peter. Is it, I mean, I know it's been really stagnant by not having an audience to play for. And you guys have been doing a lot of stuff online. I feel like it's really gaining momentum. The idea of creating personas to live this life.
this dream and it's not a fantasy anymore. It's about curating a part of yourself and putting it out there for people to really enjoy. I find it very liberating to see drag and with RuPaul's Drag Race. Like what do you think? Is it just going to get bigger? Yeah, it's going to get bigger. There's a lot more opportunity for artists like me who have no desire to be on Drag Race to create music and do something else with their career and to...
not necessarily ride the drag race wave, but to ride a wave of like bringing drag into different spaces and bringing drag into different corners of different artistries. Like I'm a multidisciplinary artist and that's not something I could have said about myself pre-COVID.
Pre-COVID, I was throwing these huge drag shows with tons and tons of drag performers from all different corners and walks of life. And we just like, we raged and had an amazing time. And now I'm centering myself and I'm going, oh, I...
I really want to get in tune with my artistic side and I want to find that place where I exist in like the pantheon of drag. And so for me, the music I'm making sounds different than all other drag music. It sounds different than Trixie Mattel. It sounds different than Bob the Drag Queen and Alaska. Like it sounds different than all of that. It's a different genre of drag music, which is great. It's like pop rock.
which is incredible. If you're listening to the Jan Arden podcast, I'm with Dust and Peter Breeze, and we will be right back. We are so excited to welcome another new sponsor, our friends at Cove Soda. Have I pestered Cove enough to come and join us here at the Jan Arden podcast? I love them so much. They are Canadian, first of all. They are a natural, certified organic, zero sugar soda, which includes, get this, one big
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while putting a gut-friendly, guilt-free drink in your body. Cove Soda is available in 12 delicious flavors all over North America. So for our American friends, you can find it. They've got this fruity lineup that's fantastic. I drink those all the time. They've got the classic lineup if you like
A cola or a cream soda, root beer, yes indeedy. And they've got their limited edition summer flavor, which will take you right back to the second grade. You gotta try the ice pop one. Head to janardenpod.com to find out where the closest place to you is where you can go and buy Cove. Go right now. ♪ Even if I try ♪ ♪ My love, my love, my love, she keeps me warm ♪
Welcome back to the Jan Arden podcast. I'm here with two fabulous individuals, Peter Breeze, Dust. And if you're looking for their, their Instagrams, Peter Breeze, he's goes under Peter Breeze at Peter Breeze, B-R-E-E-Z-E. Dust, unicorn river child. And I want you to go onto both of their Instagram pages. Dust in particular has a very unique makeup that,
They do. And it's very specific and you've curated something really cool. Like your eyes. I always remember like, like touching your little icon, your little emoji and going, I got to get, I got to zoom in on this makeup because it's unbelievable.
And you have to understand that Dust has a full beard, you know, it's not like it's an easy thing to do. It's a makeup technique and style that I developed over probably the first two years of my drag career and I wanted to go with something that was going to be distinguishable. And I'm just like, can we stop tossing around the word iconic and just name things that are actually iconic, like my makeup? Thank you.
I also love when Dust has pictures of themselves by the river in Alberta with full makeup. And I'm like, there must be these poor people wandering the trails. Like, what kind of animal is that with the makeup and in the water? It's like a mermaid unicorn hybrid club monster. It's amazing. What I wanted to do today, because you have both been so incredibly generous to me, and I got...
so much joy out of listening to your podcast, telling stories. Peter, I want you to quickly tell the story about coming to the Arden Diner 20 years ago when you were 16 years old with your friends. Okay. So this, yeah, high school, grade 11 or grade 12, my friends and I are thick in a Jen Arden obsession. And I had just gotten my license. So spending lots of time driving around the city,
and we realized there's an art in cafe on 17th Ave. So, you know, we drove by about 10 million times before we actually stopped because, you know, I don't think we, we had money or anything like that. We really needed to plan when we were going to go. What can we buy for 80 cents? Yeah.
Yeah. How can we get in with, oh yeah. Can we have some water maybe with some lemon, hot water? Yeah. So, so we go one night and honestly, the intention was just to go enjoy the food and, and say that we went to the Arden and we walk in and we sit at the table and, you know, we start ordering and I look,
and at the end of the bar, I see the iconic legend, Jan Arden. And I'm like, oh my gosh, you guys don't look now. Do not look now. Jan Arden is sitting there. And we were kind of, it was very surreal to go to the restaurant and just have you in there as we arrived. It was very, very surreal. So we ordered the food and we're like, we need to get a camera. This was before camera phones, not to age myself, but it was before camera phones. And so my friend, my friend Kat said,
She was like, you know what? I'm going to go. There's a shopper's drug mart down the street. I'm going to go buy a disposable camera. I know exactly the store you went to. Exactly. So she went all the way to shopper's drug mart. I'm sure I finished my meal before she came back. She walked into the restaurant wearing her huge winter jacket. Her face was so red. She was out of breath. She had a plastic bag in her hand. She was like, I got it. She slams it down on the table, opens it up.
And she had bought in film. Oh, no. Instead of getting a disposable camera, she just got film. And we were like, damn it. So we kind of sat at the table and sort of like contemplated our options. We didn't really know what to do.
what was going to happen. And then Jan, you came over to the table and you were like, hi, I'm Jan. Thanks so much for coming to the restaurant. And it was so, so sweet of you to come over. And before we left, we went to say goodbye to you at the end of the bar. And I remember, I remember actually asking you what it's like to be famous. Cause I mean, I'm so obsessed with fame. It's the only thing I could think about. And you said it was, it's like having food on your face. And I always think about that. It's like having food on your face. Cause everybody just stares at you.
Anyway, we told you the story about the camera and you went to the back and got your own digital camera, took a picture of us as a group and emailed it to us. And I remember leaving thinking, is Jan actually going to email it to us? Like, isn't she scared that we're going to have her email address and we'll be crazy fans and whatever?
but a couple of weeks went by, you know, I didn't get the email right away. So I thought, you know, maybe she was just being nice in the moment, but no, you did email it to us. And I still post that, uh, the picture on Instagram every few years because it pops up and it was such a validating experience to be such a fan, go to your restaurant and have you go out of the way to send that picture. Because if not, it would just be a story that I tell people.
Like, oh, this one time I saw Jan Arden in a restaurant and nobody would know. But I have that picture. It's an amazing picture. And yeah, that it cemented me in the way that I appreciate you. And you didn't have to. You didn't have to do it. Well, it made me smile when I was listening to the story. And I do remember it, Peter.
I do remember it. Our ill-fated diner, my little brother basically was the owner. I was his partner. And of course, we plastered my name up there and called it the Arden Diner. But we really enjoyed it. Patrick and his wife had twin boys about two or three years in. They were both so sick.
when they were born. They're 21 years old now, but, um, you know, we just couldn't go forward. He really needed to be at home and, and deal with that. But I really, I did enjoy the diner. It was, it was great going in there and, and, you know, eating stuff and meeting people. And they were always quite surprised when I'd wander up to the table and they had made no qualms about saying this was the worst hamburger I've ever had in my life. I'm like, Oh, okay. Anyway,
Anyway, what I wanted to do when I heard the podcast and things you guys were saying and, you know, thinking, oh, it'd be really great to go for coffee with her someday. And I was just fascinated by your rapport, your story about doing cocaine because Lindsay Lohan had been doing cocaine and all the people seem to be doing cocaine and you wore this white suit in order to do, you know, the first time I did cocaine, I wanted to wear a white suit. And I just...
I just remember being a certain age and thinking,
You know, the same kind of things you guys were thinking, you know, looking at people in music, you know, dust, looking at whatever artist and thinking, how do I get from point A to point B? And it's all very doable. It's one moment at a time. I mean, this is another moment in our lives. And then we'll, this will lead to something else. I'm telling you, it does. It always does. But I guess the moral to the story that you just told Peter is don't be an a-hole.
Treat people fairly. Like I've certainly had bad days in my life. Yeah. But I'm very proud to have stories from 25, 30 years ago that people tell that I was fair and that I didn't, you know, ridicule people. And it's so easy to have a little bit of success and then suddenly decide you're above it all because fame has teeth. And so keep that in mind. Being kind and being generous with people. Fame has teeth.
I don't always get it right. Like, and I have apologized many times to people. I've sent them emails or texts or I've, I've said stupid things on Twitter and I've, I've sent them DMS and going, you didn't deserve that for me. And I shouldn't have said that. And I actually take responsibility. So anyhow, what I wanted to do today is give you guys the opportunity to
To ask me whatever you wanted to ask me. No, no holds barred. Like I, I'm just going to sit back and I'm going to let you guys ask me if we were out for coffee somewhere and there was no one listening and it was just us. I mean, yeah, this is like, okay. I, I does dust. Do you want to go first or do you want me to go first? There is a breakup song on, uh, these are the days, uh,
And I want to know who it's about. The song that has lyrics about, oh my gosh, I'm so unprepared for class here. Is it All the Little Things? Yes. I was in a relationship with another recording artist.
We shall remain nameless. Oh my gosh. For 10 years. For 10 years? 10 years. It was certainly my longest relationship ever.
And is it Shania Twain? It is. It's Garth Brooks. Was it Terry Clark? Hi, Terry. Love Terry. But it was, and it was, it was literally about thinking, how does a relationship end? Like, how do you start out loving somebody and then it turns to complete whatever. Anyway, I'm not, I'm not kidding when I tell you we're out of time for this segment, but I will pick it up.
After this, but yes, it was about a nameless person, Nashville recording artist in a group. That's some tea, honey. From a group. In a group, in a group, in a group. And it's Jan Arden podcast. And I don't even know what we're calling it. And we'll be right back. Tired of dropping hands. Tired of talking in red. Calling you to be mine.
You still insist on calling us friends though.
Keep taking your time. I guess we're in the friend zone. Welcome back to the Jan Arden podcast. You have just heard a snippet of Dust's brand new single. What is it called, Dust? It's called Innuendo. That is just a little teaser for you people. It is not finished. Dust gave us their complete permission to
to put that out for you today. But stay tuned for the whole damn track. Explicit, yes. But that was the first. So congratulations on that. I'm going to go ahead and just say it sounds effing fantastic. Thank you. So we're now in a segment, the last two segments of Ask Me Anything. And no holds barred, I'm going to try not to get sued.
And I think, Peter, it's your turn. You know, one topic that I've had a few times recently about you, Jan,
is the way that you sort of cultivated a fan base that included a lot of queer folks. And if you look now, it's a very common thing for pop stars and celebrities to come out or show support of, be really open about who they are and how they tend to lend to support. But if you go back to the 80s and 90s, it was a very different industry.
And I'm so curious about what was going on with you backstage or maybe in meetings with your team about the way you openly discuss who you are connecting to the LGBT community specifically. And if there were moments where you like looked out into your crowd and noticed
wow, a lot of these people are coming to me for, I don't know if you recognize the reason, if you felt that connection, but I'm curious what that was like for you coming up, being a gay icon, LGBTQ icon, in a time when it wasn't common to celebrate these things or come out or make that part of your artistry, really. Right. No, I totally get that. You know, I was very, very, very fortunate. And I know that now more than anything. I'm...
I can look back and I know exactly why I was able to be the way I was and be very comfortable and bold. And just like I've always said, just be yourself. My mother in particular, when I think when parents have a queer child in any situation,
in any capacity. You know, as we all know, there's a huge spectrum and we're becoming more and more aware of how colorful, how broad that spectrum is with the minutia of sexuality, gender, identification, all the pronouns that we're seeing, the non-binary. I mean, there is a whole thing that's opened up really in the last 20 months. It's always been there, but now there's a conversation about trans youth
Getting back to your question, my mom and I had boyfriends and girlfriends kind of in my late teens. I was boy crazy in high school, but I was really into sports, you know, and it never dawned on me that how I felt was at all bizarre or abnormal. I went to a very small country school. There was 40 kids in my class, 42 kids in my class.
And I remember telling my mom, I was sort of in my late teens, maybe 19, 20, somewhere in there. And I had gone through like a breakup with a girlfriend. And I was so upset on the phone. I was crying and my dad was on the other phone. My mom was on one phone and my dad was on the other phone. And I was, I didn't know what to say to her. And she just said,
Jan, you're perfectly normal. You're a normal person. You're a normal person. And my dad, I could hear him breathing on the other end of the phone. He goes, your mother and I would love you if you were pink with purple spots. And it launched me into a place in my life that gave me every single ounce of anything I would ever need. I think my parents were so responsible for the music that I made. I've written a lot about them.
over the years. But to have my dad, who was a fierce... We didn't get along. We were very combative. He was a very, very horrible alcoholic. I mean, he beat the living hell out of my older brother. My older brother ended up in prison for 28 years.
And my dad had a lot to atone for. And he was a tyrant. He was a bully. He was a lot of things. And for him to somehow dig those words out of whatever part of his body, it made me very bold. And I didn't care what people thought. And I never have. And I think if you look back through my career, any interviews that I had, yes, I was elusive. I was vague. But I also felt like
You're not my friend. You're not my inner circle. You don't deserve to know who I'm nude with or what I do with my body or who I kiss or who I love. And I just and I wasn't at all from shame. I've never been ashamed. I'm so proud of the person that I am. I'm so proud to be a fluid, queer person.
I'm, I wouldn't, it's, it's everything of who I am. It's my sense of humor. It's the way, it's just who I am. And it's what I am. You know, Jen, my first, my first introduction to you was at a, obviously like on the radio when I'd hear it play, like insensitive in the grocery store and all those things, like get those SoCan dollars, but like was actually like at a,
a drag show in Vancouver and I, and there's a drag queen here. Her name's Peach Cobbler. She's a huge fan of yours. And she did this blender thing and in the blender was insensitive and good mother. And that night, both of those songs got pulled. And so she had to,
both of them for this nightclub audience. And it was this moment where I was just like the queer coding in these songs, the queerness that comes out of this. And Peach was the first person to take me to a Jan Arden concert. We came to see with the peony and we got to come backstage and get pictures with you. And it was really great. I don't know if you remember, I was like, I'll send you the picture. It's hilarious.
Um, but it was just one of those hearing you talk so openly about being queer really, really touches my heart because I, I knew it like you are very vague about it, but I like, I knew it, but I didn't know how deep it went. And now it makes a lot of sense why I feel so connected to your music and, and your story. So thank you. Well, no, I think, I think I, I mean, it's not that I was trying to de, um,
distance myself in any way. I just feel like we're also living in a culture even more so now where you're supposed to put everything on the table. You know, there was a time where, where
But having some kind of mystery about you, maybe I was more about that. I wanted people to guess. I mean, I would have journalists sit in front of me and say, are you gay? And I'm saying, are you asking me out? But I've also, I've also said this many times for me personally, I don't ever want to have to stand under a word.
And if some people want to do that, that's great. But if I am funneled into a room and I'm given the word gay, bi, you know, whatever, I think the word that I'm happy to stand under is queer because I just love queer.
I love what that means. I love the boldness of it. And I love the vastness of queer culture. I identify as queer too. I guess I've never been a flag waver. I've never marched in a parade and, but I'm not a gay person. I'm not a gay person because, and I know, I know people want you to commit to a side, but because I say,
sleep with men and have interest in that. And also with women, but even bisexual seems even more constrictive to me. So that's why I choose queer. I am absolutely a, like a fluid person. And I, I would like to believe that most people are that, but you know, we're still living in a culture that, um,
that rope people in, but don't ever feel like all you people out there listening that, you know, there is no normal. There's no such thing as normal. It's be who you are. And if that means you want to put new cheekbones in or change, you can be exactly what you want to be and you can be called what you want to be called and you can represent yourself the way you want to represent yourself.
And I have so much hope for the young people and the older people of the future that people let go of, how in the hell does that affect your life by what somebody else wants to be?
So I'm trying to make a difference with things like the television show. It's a queer show, but we also, we never refer to anything. We let that world live unto itself and people can be what they are. Anyway, you're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. It's a no holds barred Q&A with Dustin Peter. We'll be right back. I'm beautiful and I'm beautiful.
Welcome back to the Jan Arden podcast. I was remiss to mention that Adam Karsh is with us today. He's in his studio in an undisclosed area in Toronto, Ontario.
Adam, how are you doing? Everything good? Just checking in with you quickly because Dustin, Peter and I have monopolized the entire show. I am doing great. Thank you. I have a question. Am I allowed to ask a question? Not to take anything away from you guys. I have a question for you. You can ask a question. It's a two-parter. Oh, great. What is your favorite song by another artist and what is your favorite song by you?
My favorite song by another artist right now is a song called Winner from a Swedish-Iranian artist named Lila.
L-E-L-A-H, I believe is the spelling. I cannot stop listening to this song. I'm going to double check. I'm fact checking. Where is it? Where is it? Here it is. Layla, L-A-L-E-H. And it's called Winner. And Adam's going to play you a little clip of that. What a shame. What a loss. The winner takes. She takes it all. What a shame.
It's her voice. A favorite song of mine, it's hard to say. I mean, I've got 14 albums, but I'm going to land squarely on Hanging by a Thread, I think is one of my favorite songs. It was written about my brother who was in prison at the time.
Yeah, I was at a concert and you, I was with my friend Dave, Peach Kabla, and he was like, oh, I was my intro to you. I hadn't heard Hanging by a Thread. And he was like, she has to play Hanging by a Thread. Like it's a fan favorite. Like it's like all the hardcore fans are like, this is her best song. And you were like, I don't know why, but every time I put out a Twitter poll, everyone wants to hear this song, even though it's so sad. And Dave grabbed my leg and was like,
Buckle up, bitch. It's time. And it was just this moment. By the end, I was just fully in tears. I was fully moved. That song, yeah, it makes sense that that's your favorite too because it's our favorite. Yeah, it continually, I think people find themselves in that. I love sad songs. I love writing in minor keys. I like...
I like ballads. I, I am a, it's a miracle that I got a record deal, but I think you probably know the story a little bit is that the guy that signed me, his fiance had broken up with him. He'd already turned me down, but when he got back into his car after taking a few days off, my cassette was still on his car and a song called, I just don't love you anymore was. So when you think about happenstance and when you think about how things happen in life and
You know, what people perceive as big breaks. I don't think the entertainment industry is about those preconceived notions of what a big break is. It's thousands of seemingly insignificant events that lead you on. And those small things are as important as anything big that seems to happen in your life. Because those are the things that bunch up. It's like, it's amazing how it happens. Yeah.
I've wondered that too, like when about you, Jen, like when I was growing up, I was so convinced I was going to be a celebrity. And it was like this purpose, this belief that gave me momentum in my life. And I've heard you talk about how music was your escape. You know, you went to the basement and you wrote songs, but you've never really said, you know,
I knew I was going to be a star. I knew. In fact, you've said the opposite. You know, you didn't see anybody like you in the media. You didn't really think beyond your wildest dreams you would be as successful as you are. But did you have a sense that you maybe were meant to be a star or that you were moving in a direction that would put you in that position? No, I wanted to be a schoolteacher.
Wow. I didn't aspire to that. And I think, yeah, I wanted to be I wanted to teach like grade one and two, like English and social studies. When I was in the basement, I would pretend to be a teacher. And I think when I started writing music, I surprised myself because I was a really funny kid.
And I started, you know, one of the first songs I ever wrote was about my whole family dying in a fire. My family never died in a fire. Like, everyone's fine. Oh, my God. That is so dramatic. And I had this little morbid mind going on. But I know thinking back now, because my dad was an alcoholic, I just spent a lot of time in my parents' basement. But the work will lead you to where you want to go. Fame is a byproduct of...
you know, just doing what you want to do. Fame is a byproduct. It's not the goal. And if it's the goal, it's, it's a, it's a hard thing to give up on because there's nothing in fame at all. There's nothing, there's no golden thing there. I mean, I say hello to people a hundred times a day when I'm out and I really enjoy it. And that part of it always,
It always surprises me. The TV show kind of exacerbated that a little bit because TV being what it is, a lot of people don't even know I'm a singer. They're like, oh, yeah, you're the chick from that show.
And I'm like, wow. So it's, but it's funny, but I, I don't, but I live in the sticks. It doesn't interest me. I think for things like my horse shit campaign with the, you know, the horse, the Canadian horse defense coalition, having a public person helps with things like that. But the music has surprised me. It has surprised me to no end. I, I,
If you, it's, it's about persistence because even, even talent is obsolete because it's so subjective. One person might like me, but there's a million that hate me. They don't like my music at all.
And you have to kind of live with that. You have to have a thick skin. I mean, look at Brittany, Peter, your little handle on your Instagram. Oh my gosh, you brought her up. I know, I wanted to because you've got free Brittany on your Instagram. And you've been very vocal about, here's a woman who is a prisoner of fame, that kind of fame. And you tell me that that is an attractive thing that you would aspire to.
Exactly. But until the Free Britney movement, I remember watching her getting mobbed by paparazzi and craving that. And that's why I turned to things like drugs and alcohol and nightlife because I thought if I can emulate that chaos in my life, I have a better chance of becoming that superstar. And it wasn't until the Free Britney movement really took hold and we saw behind the curtain how problematic it is. And now our whole view of how we treat young, famous women has changed.
What is attractive to you about that? What is attractive to you about paparazzi? It's the flashes. My God, it's the flashes. I just want to feel all those. The flashes is like the aesthetic, but then also it's the validation. Like to be a single person on the planet and leave and have 50 people following you everywhere you go, taking your picture, writing about you, being obsessed with you. It was like...
I thought if I could become that, I would finally be, I don't know, lovable, cool, accepted, who knows? But it was the flashes and the validation. You are all those things. You're extremely talented. You're cool. Both you and Dust are such...
kind, compassionate, innovative people. And you are inspiring people around you. My God, you guys are doing so many things that are important and the work will lead the way. And you have to understand too, I was 30, almost 30 years old when I signed my record deal. I wasn't 14. I wasn't 13. I was a full grown human being.
And thank God I had the sense to be reasonable. Although, you know, I really struggled with alcoholism myself, but I'm, I'm really glad that I'm not dead, but there's nothing in that. The people that really care about you are within arm's reach. They are the ones that are sending off the flashbulbs. There is nothing in those people don't care about anything. They're being paid for a picture. They don't care about you. They don't,
They don't want to know who you are. They don't care about your mental wellness. That's very apparent. You can see that all the time. You look at someone, you know, whether it's Robin Williams, Anthony Bourdain, Kate Spade, people that you look at them and you're like, you've got it all. You travel. You've got TV shows. There's nothing more important in this life than creating things and having a friend.
The rest of it does not matter, Peter. It doesn't matter. Fame is, it's, it's a ghost. And the work, the work will lead the way the work will lead the way. And you've got so much time. You guys are young. You're young people. And it only takes one song, but within the work itself,
That's where the love is. It's not external from that sentence that you write down. It's not external from a podcast you create or an image you create. My friendships are my greatest success. They are my trophies. I don't have a lot of friends, but I've had friends since I was nine years old. We have to say goodbye. I've been talking to Peter Breeze.
Dust, Unicorn River Child on Instagram, Peter Breeze on Instagram. Please follow them on their socials. Please follow these amazing human beings and support their work and cheer them on. You've been listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. Totally do. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.