The Investigation
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Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI.

In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.

Welcome to the Pikedon Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. It's been one year since eight members of the Roden family were found murdered in Pike County. Now surviving members of the family have released a plea for information.

A year after eight members of the Rodin family were ruthlessly gunned down in their homes, Ohio authorities are on a relentless search for the killers. Over 800 tips have been called in to police. We made a commitment to the people of Pike County that day. I said, we're not leaving until we solve this.

Many different facets of law enforcement collaborated to crack the case. The people that carried it out were trying to do everything they could to make sure that they didn't get caught. Law enforcement officials begin tracking down a series of leads that point them to another group of potential suspects, the Wagners. The Wagners shopped at local Walmarts for ammunition, a magazine clip, and materials to build brass catchers.

According to the case indictment, the Wagners begin conducting what seems to be almost like reconnaissance on the Rodens. What do you mean a camera was there? Was it connected to something? I still to this day wonder why she mentioned that and why that conversation wasn't allowed to go any further. The revelations leave those closest to the family questioning their innocence. I know he was upset, but was he upset because she had been murdered or was he upset because he'd done it? This is the Pyton Massacre.

Episode 6: The Investigation In this episode, we're going to dive into law enforcement's investigation into the Rodin murders, how the Wagners allegedly pulled off this gruesome massacre, and why.

I'm Courtney Armstrong and I work at KT Studios with Stephanie Lidecker and Jeff Shane. We produced a documentary about the case for NBC Universal's Oxygen Network in 2019 and have been following the evolution of the investigation since then. To understand the crime and the possible motivation of the family that may have committed it, we want to look at the months leading up to the murders and authorities' movements after.

By any objective standard, it was a long, arduous investigation spanning two full years. During that time, many different facets of law enforcement—the FBI, the DEA, the Pike County Sheriff's Office, and the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation—all collaborated to crack the case.

Police received over 1,100 tips. They conducted over 500 interviews, tested about 700 pieces of evidence, served close to 200 search warrants, subpoenas and other things. So this was something that was huge.

That's Mike Allen, a defense attorney, former Ohio County prosecutor, and legal analyst for Cincinnati news station Fox 19. The Attorney General DeWine at the time said it was a pretty sophisticated operation and the people that carried it out were trying to do everything they could to make sure that they didn't get caught. Attorney General DeWine and Sheriff Reeder, they both said that the investigation was going to be a long one and a lengthy process. And boy, it sure has played out that way.

But how exactly did investigators circle in on the Wagners as suspects and eventually compile enough evidence to make arrests? In previous episodes, we discussed some of the conflicts between the Wagners and the Rodens in 2016. There was a custody battle between Jake Wagner and Hannah Roden, and a physical altercation between Billy Wagner and Chris Roden Sr.,

It seemed like the relationship between the two families was reaching a fever pitch in the months leading up to the murders. But these two families didn't always have such ill will towards one another. Here's journalist Jeff Winkler. I think early on, people wanted to paint the sort of feud between the Rodents and Wagners.

as something like Hatfields and McCoys, just because it was sort of hills of Appalachia, backwoods kind of thing. But I mean, it really wasn't like that. Right, like people like to say the Hatfields and McCoys, but I think they were probably closer and friendlier than that version of it, right? Yeah, I mean, the fact that they were family members who were splitting their time between the two houses, the fact that, you know, the Wagners had been in the area for a long time as well, just as the Rodens had, it's just...

You had two families who were intertwined by both blood and work.

Do you know anything about Billy and Chris Roden Sr.?

I mean, it's like they're in-laws. They're related. I mean, they're two grandfathers of the same little girl. She's adorable. Did Angela and Dana get along in the same way? Do you know? It looked to me like they were clearly getting along. And she never said anything...

bad about the rodents. She never spoke one negative thing about it, just about the children, about, you know, they went fishing and they were over at Frederica's and, you know, small talk. Right, like normal talk you'd have with another mom about raising kids. Right, exactly. And it's just like, that's all it is. It's just family talk. We of course know that Hannah and Jake Wagner had an intense relationship, but through the ups and downs, most would say they were in love.

and their relationship brought the two families together. Here's producer Stephanie. When we started doing our research, I personally became a bit obsessed with better understanding the intersection between these two families and really struggle with the motivation. What could possibly cause one family, the Wagners, to allegedly murder eight people that they knew so well? They knew them intimately. In fact, we came across a photograph taken in 2012 at...

George Wagner, the eldest son's wedding. And the Rodens and the Wagners are both in this photo, seemingly so happy. The only person not there is Dana Roden. And she said to maybe be taking the photo because she later posted it on her MySpace page.

But it's mind-blowing. The people in the photo do not look like killers posing with their would-be victims. But sure enough, in four years, the majority of the people in this picture would be dead. And the others would be standing trial for their deaths.

Throughout this series, we've been talking to a relative of the Wagners who's chosen to remain anonymous. She spoke to Jeff about her family's reaction in the wake of the Roden murders. What was the feeling like in the family after that happened? Angela was upset because it was the mother of her granddaughter. She was just really sad, you know, that that had happened. I talked to Jake and I was telling him, like, I'm so sorry, you know, like, if there's anything I can do, please tell me. And Angela, she did ask me.

At one point, probably about a month after the murders had happened, if I could come down and pick up Sophia and Jake and take Sophia to a friend's house and stuff. So I did. And in that time, me and Jake and Sophia were in the car, and he was an absolute wreck. And of course, I did not know. I didn't know how to react. I didn't know what to ask him.

I didn't know what to say. I was kind of just letting him just have his moment. And he was absolutely devastated. I mean, he couldn't talk. He couldn't breathe. He was having like a big attack in my car. And I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, I don't know what to say. So of course, when I find out that they were the ones who've done this,

I keep thinking back to that time, you know, in the car and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I know he was upset, but was he upset for, you know, the right reasons, I guess? Was he upset because she had been murdered or was he upset because, you know, he'd done it and he knew? I don't know. It was just an awful eerie feeling. It really, truly was.

Let's rewind to summer 2014. Hannah and Jake's daughter, Sophia, is eight months old.

Here's producer Stephanie. This is why this case is so complicated, because just when I think the Wagners could be innocent, I read something like this. Around this time, according to the case indictment, the Wagners began conducting what seems to almost be like reconnaissance on the Rodin family.

Over the course of the next two years, they allegedly began hacking into the rodents' personal computers, their phones, even their social media accounts. They even reportedly used surveillance cameras to spy on the rodents. But why would they do that?

Especially according to most accounts, Jake and Hannah were very much still dating and very much in love at this time. So why would they be spying? Was Angela Wagner, the mom, obsessed with her youngest son, Jake Wagner's relationship with Hannah Roden? Were the dads, Chris Roden or Billy Wagner Sr., embroiled in something big? Were the Wagners simply trying to get familiar with the family patterns and better understand the Roden property? Why would they possibly be spying?

Here's investigative reporter Jody Barr. He's talking about a conversation he had with Kendra Roden, the daughter of one of the victims, Kenneth Roden. Kendra Roden brought up with me in our discussions, she mentioned a few times that there were cameras set up around Chris Sr.'s home. Wow, so Kendra Roden actually saw cameras on the property that now it seems as if allegedly the Wagners had put there. Yeah, she told me that at Chris Sr.'s home that there

there was a camera on that property and she said it was in sort of not in the wooded area but sort of the field like it hadn't been mowed but it was right near the garage at Christine's home

and of course naturally you start questioning her about the cameras and you know what do you mean a camera was there was it connected to something did you did you look did you try to investigate it was a very strange encounter you know when she mentioned that and then the conversation went no further well she was probably scared right possibly i mean but she's talking to a reporter that was always something that i've wondered about because you

Yeah, but I find so like the most screwed up thing about it is at that time in the summer of 2014 is when Jake Wagner and Hannah Roden were like,

were like hot and heavy and planning a wedding and to know that he was then also sort of maybe planning her murder at the same time or starting to at least spy on her in some way is like just very dark. I mean, there's a lot of interest obviously still in this case and you know, with every criminal prosecution, you know, the state, they have their version of facts and the defense will have its version of facts. But if this turns out to be true, man, what a story. I mean, what a terribly tragic ending, uh,

to these lies, to everything that was going on. If we are to believe what the prosecution has alleged, you know, this paints a very dark picture. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.

From unbelievable romantic betrayals. The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family. When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal. This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me.

Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. I'm John Walzak.

In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.

But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I spent almost a decade researching right wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.

But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to. Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat.

It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It seems that the Wagners became obsessed with getting sole custody of Sophia after Jake and Hannah broke up. But how exactly did they think they would gain control? As laid out in the indictment, the Wagners began methodically plotting a scheme that would take several months to actually carry out.

Here again is Jody Barr. So when you read these indictments, they were talking about the Wagner's movements even months before these murders happened. And the investigators believe that they were planning this for quite some time before that. The indictment says that detectives believe that planning began January 1 of 2016. The murders happened April of 2016. So you've got four months of planning that's alleged to have happened here. Four months to plan this out.

So what exactly went into the planning? In previous episodes, we talked about how in April 2016, the Wagners presented Hannah Roden with custody documents. But what Hannah didn't know then and what police later uncovered is that the supposedly legal documents were fake.

and that Angela Wagner's mother, Rita Jo Newcomb, was allegedly at the center of the deception. I spoke to my gal about it. So Rita Jo Newcomb, Angela's mom, she faces three counts of forgery, a count of perjury, and she's a notary. Can you speak to what power does a notary have, or how does that come into play? In Ohio, notaries don't have a lot of power. They are allowed, obviously, to notarize signatures. They have to

make sure that the oath is administered properly when they are notarizing something. They're kind of hard to come by here in Ohio, but I'm certain that because of this, she'll probably lose that notary's license if she hasn't already.

Moving forward a bit in time, prosecutors ultimately claimed that Rita lied about the authenticity of these documents to a grand jury. But in an unexpected twist, Newcomb agreed to a plea deal with the prosecution. She pled guilty to a misdemeanor charge of obstructing official business. In exchange, felony charges of forgery and perjury were dismissed. Here's Newcomb speaking in court. I just feel that it's not a good Christian thing to like, and I couldn't live with it no more.

It's difficult to hear her because of the recording, but she says, I just feel that it's not a good Christian thing to lie, and I couldn't live with it no more. Jody Barr thinks there could be ulterior motives to Newcomb's deal. The prosecutor said in court, though, that a handwriting expert concluded that Rita Newcomb did not sign the documents herself.

Newcomb admitted to falsely telling a grand jury and investigators that she did so only because her daughter, Angela Wagner, who was among those charged with the killings, told her to do so. I mean, there were some heavy charges dismissed, you know, where investigators trying to squeeze the grandmothers to get some information out of them.

Mike Allen seems to think so. Now, there's a lot of speculation. And in the normal case, the first thing you'd think of is, OK, you know, they gave her a reduced charge in return for cooperation. And I would not be surprised if that's not the case. But again, you know, we won't know until we get closer to trial.

Can you be compelled to testify for the prosecution? Sure. I mean, if they receive a subpoena, unless there's some kind of legal reason why, you know, they couldn't. Yeah, I mean, the prosecutor could issue the subpoena. If there's testimony, the prosecutor would probably ask the court to designate that person as a hostile witness. And then they can use leading questions.

According to court records, the documents appointed a guardian for Jake and Hannah's daughter in the event of their deaths. When police later searched the Wagner home, this document was found in a box belonging to Angela Wagner labeled, "'Important Stuff.'"

I asked Mike Allen about the legal ramifications of these forged documents. How does it appear that these documents were forged on April 3rd? It was 19 days before the murders. I'll tell you what, I've been doing this for a long time and I've never seen anything like this. It's strong evidence for the prosecutor. The defense attorney has to find a way to explain that away, which is probably next to impossible. But yeah, it's that strong evidence from a prosecutor's perspective.

As we've discussed before, it was around this time that Chris Roden Sr. and Billy Wagner got into a fight as well. Here's Mike Allen recapping that confrontation. Back in mid-April 2016, supposedly, there was a fight between Chris Sr. and Billy Wagner. Nobody seems to know what the fight was about or what caused it.

Things were obviously becoming strained between the two families. But the beginning of April also brought a lot of joy for the Roden family. That month, Hannah celebrated her 19th birthday. Here's Roden family friend, Stefan. It was a happy occasion, you know. It was family get-together and lots of fun, you know, because they were fun. They were always having, you know, get-togethers, birthday parties, anything like that. They were a great family unit.

But as the Roden family was celebrating, the Wagners allegedly were busy planning their murders. The Wagners already had a cache of firearms, but around this time they began making their own silencers. If the Wagners did do it, it seems likely that these would have been used on the night of the murders. The family also bought ammunition, a magazine clip, a bug detector, and materials to build brass catchers.

Jody Barr filled us in on what some of this equipment is used for. The brass catcher is a bag that hooks on the side of a firearm. It will catch spent cartridges. So every time you pull the trigger, a cartridge is ejected. And if you were really interested in not leaving anything behind, as far as ballistic evidence, this sounds like a great start. This bag will collect the shell casing so there's no evidence left behind.

The indictment also includes a reference to a specific pair of shoes that the family purchased from Walmart. But why would they need a particular pair of shoes to pull off a murder?

Here's Stephanie. One such theory is that the Wagners were trying to frame Dana Roden's brother, James Manley. He's significant because, if you recall, Dana Roden's sister, Bobbie Jo, made the first discovery of bodies and called 911. She also called her brother, who rushed to Dana Roden's house and also found their bodies. His prints were allegedly at the crime scene.

However, just one day before the murders, the Wagners drove two and a half hours to a specific Walmart to buy a particular pair of boots. They're seen on surveillance buying these boots and they're the same kind of boots known to be worn by James Manley. Why would they do that?

Here's reporter Jody Barr. From the indictment, I mean, there's a lot of assertion by the prosecution that they have evidence that, you know, these boots were purchased to frame James Manley, a family member for the murder, and that James lived the closest to Dana, and that James...

Right, so the idea is that they went and bought these specific boots knowing that James Manley wore them, and then they would, in theory, wear them the night of the murder, so it looked to police like he was the one walking around. And it sounds like, for a period of time, investigators might have believed that to be the case because James Manley was one of the first people brought in and interrogated, given a polygraph.

I mean, if you're to believe what's written in that indictment, it sounds like you may have been pretty close to pulling this all off. It was so detail oriented. Yeah. And you and you wonder this, too. It's like it seemed like a lot of detailed planning to preplan that. I don't really know what to think of it again. I don't know anybody who's capable of doing that. And we know it happened. It was pulled off by somebody.

In April 2016, the same week as Hannah's birthday, her mother Dana threw a baby shower to celebrate the upcoming birth of her new baby girl, Kylie. It would be the last time the Roden family all gathered in one place.

Becky Ryder was a close friend of Dana Roden's. She told Jeff about the excitement surrounding the baby's arrival. Dana felt overwhelmed with joy and happiness because she was getting another grandbaby that she could love and spoil. She always loved her grandkids, you know, deeply. Yeah, and like Hannah must have been happy too because she had a new boyfriend at that point who was not Jake Wagner and she was about to have a new baby and kind of start a new chapter of her life, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

In photos from this event, Hannah smiles with her daughter Sophia. We also see other family members in the photo, including Frankie and his fiancée Hannah Gilley. In just a few days, eight members of the Roden family would be dead. But DeRay's recollection of the events leading up to the birth of Kylie is different. She says at that point that things were still going well between Jake and Hannah. I believe they may have disagreements, and I think there was disappointments, but I don't think there was any hate.

We've discussed in previous episodes how the people of Piketon were immediately affected by the murders and the shroud of fear that hovered over the small town. I just don't understand why it happened here. You have to really wonder and think like, is it like mafia or anything like that? Because it is crazy. If I lived down there, I wouldn't stay there. I would be so afraid. But in the wake of the murders, many news outlets were portraying Jake Wagner as almost a sympathetic figure.

This is how the Cincinnati Inquirer described him in a July 2016 article. A full-time single dad with mounting legal bills with a new job that pays half of what he was making to ensure he is close to Sophia. But close still means the 23-year-old makes a daily commute to Cincinnati, a two and a half hour daily drive.

But it's what the family did in the wake of the murders that raised some suspicion.

We know that just six days after the Rodens were killed, Jake Wagner filed for custody of two and a half year old Sophia, his daughter with Hannah Roden. In a previous episode, we talked to Ohio criminal defense attorney Mike Allen about how this looks from a legal perspective.

That's extremely strong evidence for the prosecution. I mean, six days, less than a week after the killings to go ahead and file, it can take months, you know, maybe a year, a little bit more, a little bit less. It's not something that goes quickly at all. And I think that that is going to be some evidence that's problematic for the defense doing it that quickly after the murders.

It was around the same time that Angela Wagner suggested her son create a GoFundMe campaign to help cover the custody expenses, to the tune of $20,000. Jake wrote a personal message on the page saying, "These were not expenses I was supposed to have. I was just supposed to be able to spend time with her and give her a happy childhood. Sophia and I are just asking enough to settle the fees that we acquired due to the horrific tragedy to her mommy." He finished,

I hate seeing my daughter cry. We want to get our lives back.

But these legal actions seemed unusual to many in the community. Here's investigative reporter Jody Barr. I do remember seeing that in the Roden Massacre Facebook group, you know, people talking about that and just, you know, there were a lot of angry comments about it that, you know, a lot of people in those groups have already convicted the Wagners. They already believe they did it and they're guilty. And, you know, so to see that and how vocal the Wagners were on social media,

It seemed to rub people in that group the wrong way, that that was the wrong message that they believed the Wagner should have been sending at that point in time. But, you know, a lot of people saw it as the brazenness of the people wrapped up in this to make a move like that, to ask for help. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.

From unbelievable romantic betrayals... The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family... When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal...

This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Oh my God.

In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.

But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in a cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I spent almost a decade researching right wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters.

But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to.

Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat. It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In May 2017, with the investigation in full swing, officials searched the farm of a Pikedon resident named Bernard Browne.

Mike Allen filled us in on why police may have been interested in the property. Agents searched his farm. I guess he's a friend of the Wagners and knew them for a long time. I guess they fixed cars together, a lot of cars on the lot. I guess Jake had stored some cars and some other things on the property. And I'll tell you what, cars and vehicles and equipment are all over the property.

these farms that have been searched. So, I mean, maybe something could have been hidden somewhere. Somebody must have given law enforcement a tip that there could possibly be something there or they wouldn't have searched it.

Bernard Brown was not charged with anything. Authorities searched two large trailers and took one smaller utility trailer owned by the Wagners from his property. According to Brown, Jake Wagner sometimes worked for him fixing cars. Brown said that the Wagners had dropped items off at the property a week prior to the search. It was clear that investigators were becoming more interested in the Wagners. By the spring of 2017, the family had been interviewed several times by authorities.

It should be noted that Jake and Angela were interviewed five times, Billy three times, and George once. DeRay spoke to Jeff about a conversation she had with Angela Wagner as police narrowed in on her family. One day she goes, I can't believe it. They just won't leave us alone. They just will not leave us alone. She goes, it's terrible. She goes, we're starting to get really worried that we're going to be arrested. So they felt that coming. Yeah, because they wouldn't leave everybody alone.

Rumors of the Wagners' potential involvement in the Roden Massacre quickly spread, and soon they were being targeted not only by police, but by Pike County residents as well. Everybody had started basically attacking them, the community, accusing them of murdering those people. Like if they were in town and people identified their vehicle, they would throw pot bottles at them.

Angela had actually went into a store one day and some woman had actually pulled up behind Angela as she was coming back out of the store and threw a glass ski bottle at her and it busted her in the back.

In May 2017, as the community continued to turn against them, Angela Wagner took to social media to publicly declare her family's innocence. Here's Jeff reading from her post. "Okay, I have decided to tell you all a couple of things about me and my family. What has happened to us in the past few weeks has been devastating and it will follow us for the rest of our lives. Hannah was a daughter to me.

Let's try to find the real monsters who've done this.

So let's really unpack this for a moment, because if Angela Wagner is in fact a martyr and had been targeted by the town, I mean, having a bottle thrown at you if you did not commit these crimes would be hideous, especially the town that you love so much. Angela and her husband lived there for generations. That had to be really difficult. However, if they did it and they just went about their lives speaking to the press openly, you know, when I look at her photo, I know I've said this before. She looks like a mom.

But then she's also grimacing in her mugshot. And even during her pretrial hearings, there's something sort of smug about the way she presents herself. It also makes me wonder, could she possibly be at the center of this? Facing violent backlash from locals and increasing attention from authorities, the Wagners did something that left everyone in Pikedon stunned.

Here's Jeff Winkler again. Their lawyer had said that they were the primary suspects. And so it was around that time, May 2017, that the whole family emptied out a few cargo facilities that they had, some sheds and whatnot, loaded it all up, and then up and moved to Alaska.

When they left for Alaska, I was like, oh, wow, they're running. And then I thought they'll get away with it. I'm the one that told them, go to Alaska. The state of Ohio cannot afford to extradite you from Alaska back home.

But the Wagners' relocation didn't hinder the investigation. Investigators raided three properties in Adams and Pike counties in the middle of May. We had previously reported those properties are connected to the Wagner family. Now investigators say they believe the family recently moved to Alaska. Investigators want any information the public has about the family. They moved to Alaska, but then the very following month, law enforcement actually finally searches the properties where the Wagners lived.

That started to tighten the noose in terms of the Wagners. More on that next time. Reach out to us on our social media outlets with questions. We're on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Pyton Massacre. We look forward to answering your questions in upcoming bonus episodes.

Hold on to your screens. Winchester Mystery House presents Unhinged Hotel. Whistle.

Ready to check into your worst nightmare? Starting Friday the 13th in September, brave the Bay Area's most thrilling Halloween haunt. Stranded and seeking help, uncover dark secrets in a maze of spine-tingling terror. Can you make it to check out? Find out at winchestermysteryhouse.com. Get your tickets if you dare. Again, that's winchestermysteryhouse.com.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. This is my mom.

In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.