Chapters
Shownotes Transcript
This is Holly Frey from Stuff You Missed in History Class. The national sales event is on at your Toyota dealer. Making now the perfect time to get a great deal on a dependable new SUV, like an adventure-ready RAV4. Available with all-wheel drive, your new RAV4 is built for performance on any terrain. Or to get a great deal on a dependable new SUV,
check out a stylish and comfortable Highlander with seating for up to eight passengers and available panoramic moonroof. You can sit back and enjoy the wide open views with the whole family. Check out more national sales event deals when you visit buyatoyota.com. Toyota, let's go places.
MITRE is investing in a massive AI supercomputer to power a new federal AI sandbox. With AI's potential to drive transformational advances across industries, MITRE's expertise in healthcare, cybersecurity, transportation, finance, climate, and national security will be critical. Transform your career while helping solve problems for a safer world. Visit MITRE.org slash careers. That's M-I-T-R-E dot org slash careers.
Life is happening around us. So many things to do, places to go. If you switch off, you're out of it. But if you switch on, you're part of it. Subscribe to The Washington Post today at WashingtonPost.com slash iHeart. Switch on The Washington Post. Ever tried to tackle a home improvement project without making 10 trips to Home Depot? What if I told you there's a way to earn cash back while you shop?
Introducing Drop, the ultimate rewards app. With Drop, you can earn free gift cards by shopping in-store or online at Home Depot and tons of other stores. Download the Drop app today and use code DROP33 to get an instant $5 in points. That's Drop, your go-to for shopping rewards.
It can get lonely climbing Mount McKinley. So to entertain myself, I go to ChumbaCasino.com. At Chumba Casino, I can play hundreds of online casino-style games for free, like online slots, bingo, slingo, and more. Plus, I get a daily login bonus. It's just too bad that up here, I don't have anyone to share my excitement with. Live the Chumba life, anytime, anywhere. Play for free now at ChumbaCasino.com. VGW group, no purchase necessary. Void web prohibited by law. See terms and conditions 18+.
What stands out to me is just the sheer massiveness of this thing and the absolute brutality of this thing. These were real human beings who lost their lives and it's not just what happened to them, but they were actual people. Legal fireworks erupt in court as George Wagner, the force attorney, is trying to put a sudden end to his trial in the Pike County massacre. We would ask for a mistrial based on gruesome photos that have been shown to the jury.
I know that these photographs were coming. So I don't know how much of this was rooted in legal practice and how much of it was rooted in theatrics. This is The Piketon Massacre, Return to Pike County, Season 4, Episode 7, Everybody Has a Story. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KT Studios with Stephanie Leidiger and Jeff Shane.
It's the middle of George Wagner IV's trial and it's important to note that he has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. Hours of testimony from investigators and relatives has painted a very real portrait of what the crime scenes look like. But on this day of the trial, no one could have imagined the gruesomeness they would face.
Listener warning: This episode covers a particularly graphic portion of the court testimony. Discretion is strongly advised. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and you shall answer unto God? I do. Prosecutor Angie Canepa and her team called Dr. Karen Luhmann to the stand. Luhmann is a forensic pathologist who carried out autopsies on all eight of the victims.
Wednesday, she talked about examining Chris Sr.'s son Frankie Roden and his fiancee Hannah Gilley. Both were found shot to death in their bed inside a mobile home with their infant son left alive between them. The eight deceased members of the Roden family were discovered on a Friday. Once investigators for BCI were done processing the crime scenes, the bodies were removed and transported for autopsy.
And that you did the females first on April 23rd, that same Saturday? Yes. Okay. And would you have done that first thing in the morning? Yes. Okay. And what time is that? It's 6:07 a.m. Here's James Pilcher, long-time investigative reporter in Cincinnati, now with Local 12. She got the call. First thing Saturday morning, she starts in. She had to do eight autopsies in three days.
But she actually did three on one day, and then another four on another day, and then another one on Monday. And these weren't just your run-of-the-mill autopsies. I don't know what she must have gone through that weekend. And knowing they're all one family, we're all like talking amongst ourselves. How are we going to handle our own mental health through all of this? I can imagine what she's going through. Here's forensic medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan.
You're talking about multiple gunshot wounds and lots of evidence, trace evidence to recover. Each one of these autopsies would have taken a couple of hours because it would have been x-rays, external photographs, removal of clothing, searching for trace evidence on the clothing in place, documentation of the clothing, documentation of the holes in the clothing, the defects in the clothing, the bloodstains on the clothing, all of those measurements.
And we haven't even made it to the body yet. Just let that sink in. So can you imagine how exhausting this would be and how draining this is psychically? Based on a quick review of Dr. Luman's work, she does not shy away from emotionally challenging cases. She has performed autopsies and testified in many murder trials, including those of toddlers. On the stand, she appears relaxed and direct. Can you tell us what we are looking at there?
This is a photograph of Hannah Hazel as we open the body bag. That's a picture of Hannah's chest showing her bra, and she has a maternity bra, and the hooks for the front of the bra are open. And her breast is exposed in that photograph. And do you see liver mortis in that picture? There is some liver mortis in that picture, yes. Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan.
Well, when you begin to think about liver mortis, it's probably one of the most solid fallback positions when it comes to judging postmortem interval. And the reason is, is that it's totally gravitationally dependent. It's not impacted by temperature. Settling the blood is impacted by
only by gravity. So the blood will actually pool in the lowest dependent area. And it's very simple to explain. Just think for a moment, if you've got a cup of water, if you pour that cup of water out into the sink, well, what's it going to seek? It's going to seek the lowest point of gravity. And in the case of the sink, it's going to be the drain. So just imagine, if you will, there's a body lying flat.
which we would call the supine position, lying flat on the back, face upwards. Well, the blood is going to pool into those dependent regions in the back on the posterior. We can tell how long someone has been down within two to three hours, essentially, when we apply all of these components, whether it's the rigidity of the body, the temperature of the body,
and more specifically postmortem lividity the settling of blood can you tell us if the liver mortis that you see in that is consistent with her laying mostly on her stomach kind of to the right side on the right yes on the right side yes what parts of the body did you notice injuries to on ms gilly hannah hazel had injuries only to her head how many gunshot wounds did hannah hazel have five
Lumen examines an X-ray of Hannah Hazel Gilley's head and explains. You can see the round orbits where the eyes are. You can see where her teeth are at the bottom. And then you can see four relatively larger white radio-opaque things on the right side of the head. Those are bigger bullets. They are deformed, so you see they're funny different shapes. They're deformed because they struck the bone. And then you see there's tiny little pieces of metal there.
Above those four pieces and on the other side by the left eye. Those are all tiny little fragments of bullets. Joseph Scott Morgan. You know, they won't show certain photographs in court because defense will say they're prejudicial. One of the most beautiful things that you can do is show x-rays. Because x-rays don't have blood. They don't have gore. You don't see bodies blown apart. You might see fractured bones.
but it's black and white. And then anything that is radio opaque, you see that and suddenly the snowstorm appears before you and they look like little white dots everywhere. And those are fragments of bullets. And that is powerful when the jury looks at that. And everybody knows their brain is in the top part of their head, inside of their skull, and you see it. You know, a white bulb goes off and you say, oh my God.
Look in the brain. You can see the little dots where all of that, the bullet fragmented and just ripped this body to shreds. But photographic evidence follows. Warning, some of this discussion is incredibly graphic. In that photograph, I'm looking at her left eye. There's some clotted blood that you see along the margin of her eye.
The blood that's in her mouth is not an injury. It's blood that's there because of the fractures to the skull. It actually fractures the sinus bones and then the sinuses bleed down the back of the throat passively. Okay, and it almost looks like her tooth is black, but that's actually blood. That's clotted blood, yes. There are a lot of people that, you know, want to turn a blind eye to the horror of this. You cannot escape it.
There's no way to, you know, church this up. Within the context of the graphic detail lies the story. And, you know, people, as desperately as they want to turn away from it, you have to stare at it. You have to stare at it and assess it. You have to get past the horror of it. But you have to understand this. Every person that died deserves, deserves to have their story told.
I think that it is unimaginable for the family. Hearing this graphic testimony from the coroner and also hearing Joseph Morgan's take on it, we forget they too are human beings who are seeing carnage and blood and bodies so regularly. We assume anybody who works in this space get used to seeing that level of gore, but that's simply not the case. Here again, Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa.
Do you have an opinion as to whether or not her eye would have been opened or closed at the time that she was shot? Her eyes, because it at least got part of her eyelids, I believe her eyelids were mostly closed. The fact that it didn't get the upper eyelid, it could be, you know, some people sleep with their eyes slightly open. It could be that her eyes are slightly open. It could also be their eyes are fully open and it only got the bottom lid. So...
It did not go through the top eyelid? That's correct. Okay. So I can't tell technically if she was asleep or awake. And did you ultimately, can you tell us what distance did you determine that was? Because we could see stippling, that's an intermediate gunshot wound.
Okay, and that intermediate again is that three inches to three feet-ish range? Yes. And do you have an opinion as to the effect that would have had on Hannah Hazel? Yes. And what is that opinion? She would have been immediately unconscious. Okay, and why do you say that?
The bullet not only causes injury, but there's also kinetic energy that travels with the bullet. It's shaking up the brain. It takes a lot to break the bones in the skull, too. There's a lot of concussion trauma. So not only is it damaging her eye, but the brain is damaged as well. And so she would become unconscious. This is only the description of the first gunshot. The bullet ended up in the frontal lobe of the brain.
You can also see she's got some blood coming from her left ear. That's a sign that the bone's inside the head, especially the bone where your inner ear is, is broken. Then you bleed outside your ear. So that's what you're seeing. Canepa and Luman go through each individual round, all five shots, and the damage each bullet did to Hannah Hazel Gilley's body. Here's legal analyst Mike Allen.
What stands out to me is just the absolute brutality of this thing. I mean, it's stunning how brutal it is. Shot in the face, I mean, testimony about a baby nursing at his mother's breast and she's shot. I mean, you think about Hannah.
Laying in bed with that child and just the depravity of someone doing that, it's really hard to imagine. All in all, Dr. Luman extracted four bullets from Hannah Hazel's head. The fifth grazed her skull, creating a hole and a partial bullet wound. During testimony, reporter James Pilcher reported live from outside the courtroom. Frankie was shot three times in the head.
Earlier Wednesday, Todd Fortner with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation finished testifying about processing that crime scene on Union Hill Road, saying he found five spent shell casings in the couple's bedroom. Frankie Roden was lying in bed with Hannah Hazel Gilley. A pair of blue boxer shorts, the only clothing he was wearing. They were soaked with blood. Dr. Luhmann holds up a paper bag with this evidence inside, but does not open it. She then picks up a box.
This is our bullet box where we put all of the projectiles in. I have it labeled "from the head" for Frankie. And those represent the projectiles that you recovered from the head of Frankie Roden on April 24, 2016? Yes. And can you tell us, did you notice any differences or similarities between those projectiles and the projectiles that you recovered from Hannah Hazel Gilly? Yes.
Frankie was lying face up and was shot through the cheek, left temple, and ear. Hannah Hazel was at his side facing him. The shooter came into their room facing the left side of the bed and opened fire. Despite the graphic nature of the work at hand, there were only positive reviews of Luman's testimony. Here again, James Pilcher.
I can tell you, at least from the feedback I've gotten from watching her, that she has really a lot of respect in the community for the respect she's treated the victims in their bodies and the autopsy and everything else. But the next morning, it's not Luman's testimony that is making news. Legal fireworks erupt in court as George Wagner, the force attorney, is trying to put a sudden end to his trial in the Pike County massacre.
George Wagner's defense attorney John Parker claims continuing to show the jury gruesome photos of the crime scenes and autopsies is inflammatory, specifically since the actual facts of how the victims died are not in question. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.
MITRE's mission is to solve problems for a safer world. If you have a passion for applied cybersecurity with skills in infrastructure threat intelligence, deterrence technologies, advisal threat emulation, or intelligence analysis, explore the many challenging and fulfilling career opportunities at MITRE.org slash careers. That's M-I-T-R-E dot org slash careers.
Have you made the switch to NYX? Millions of women have made the switch to the revolutionary period underwear from NYX. That's K-N-I-X. Period panties from NYX are like no other, making them the number one leak-proof underwear brand in North America. They're comfy, stylish, and absorbent, perfect for period protection from your lightest to your heaviest days. They
They look, feel, and machine wash just like regular underwear, but feature incognito protection that has you covered. You can shop sizes from extra small to 4XL. Choose from all kinds of colors, prints, and different styles, from bikinis to boy shorts, thongs to high-rise. You've got to try NYX. See why millions are ditching disposable, wasteful period products and have switched to NYX.
Go to knix.com and get 15% off with promo code TRY15. That's knix.com, promo code TRY15 for 15% off life-changing period underwear. That's knix.com.
We're here for the history, not the hype. To shed light, not fan flames. We're here for the whole story, not just a headline. Here to uphold democracy, uncover the facts, and illuminate what matters. Democracy dies in darkness. That's where we come in. The Washington Post. Switch on. Subscribe today at washingtonpost.com slash iHeart.
Hello, it is Ryan. And we could all use an extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we? Just to make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, counting your steps, you know, all the mundane stuff. That is why I'm such a big fan of Chumba Casino. Chumba Casino has all your favorite social casino-style games that you can play for free anytime, anywhere with daily bonuses. So sign up now at chumbacasino.com.
That's ChumbaCasino.com. Sponsored by Chumba Casino. No purchase necessary. VGW Group. Voidware prohibited by law. 18 plus. Terms and conditions apply.
Dot U-S. Visit M-O-D-O dot U-S for the best free play social casino experience wherever you are. Modo offers a huge selection of Vegas style games with free spins, exciting promotions, and always generous jackpots. You can waste your time with the others or you can win at Modo. Register today at M-O-D-O dot U-S for your free welcome bonus. Modo is a social casino. No purchase necessary. Void where prohibited. Play responsibly. Conditions apply. See website for details. M-O-D-O. Dot U-S.
Here's Jeff speaking with James Pilcher. The defense is asking for a mistrial. What do you make of that? Is that something that's valid? Could they possibly get one? They are pulling every trick in the book that they can to try to get this to start over, to delay it, to get the jury mad, to do whatever. The latest thing, they don't want the prosecution to be able to show the pictures up on the screen. Here again, Joseph Morgan.
What is kind of out of left field is the idea that the defense attorney would ask for a mistrial based on the nature of the photographs. Most of the time, that kind of stuff is handled in pretrial motion. You come to an agreement as to what photography is going to be used, and in the pretrial motions, there'll be a hearing.
And they knew this was coming. This is not like this just fell from the heavens and they're unaware. They know that these photographs are coming. So I don't know how much of this was rooted in legal practice and how much of it was rooted in the address. It appears that Judge Deering agrees. With the request for a mistrial denied, the prosecution moves on to crime scene three.
the home where Dana Roden, Hannah Mae Roden, and Chris Roden Jr. were killed. The prosecution recalled BCI Special Agent Todd Fortner to the stand. Fortner had already testified earlier in the trial about evidence at Chris Sr. and Gary's trailer. He took many of the photographs at Frankie Roden's house as well. One that caught the eye of both the prosecution and defense was an open window on the backside of the home.
As you look at State Exhibit B-135, you testified about that air conditioner that appeared to have some grass on it out back. Can you see that air conditioner in that picture? Yes, just outside the window. The back of Frankie Roden's home has two windows. The open window in question sits about five to six feet up from the ground with two HVAC units below it. Interior photos are shown next.
Show the jury where that picture is taken from and what you're depicting in that picture. This is, again, from the doorway here, looking into the bedroom. You can see the clutter and the open window.
Looking at these photographs and picturing this room and where these windows are, an interesting detail too, I thought, was that there was a bathtub and they must have been raising baby chicks because to keep them warm, there were little wood chips in the bathtub where the chicks were growing. And right beside that, there was a toddler's pack and play, which we've all seen before.
just kind of a haunting image against the grisliness that took place soon after.
Also, you know, it raises the question, there was so much stuff in and around where the windows are, it seems like it would have been very clumsy to get through that window. Special Agent Todd Fortner. And when you initially viewed that picture, did you think it was unlikely that anybody had come through that window? Yes, I felt it was less likely that someone came in without disturbing some of these items. However, it was not impossible.
So clearly somebody could have come through that window, but based on the way that those items appeared, nothing was knocked over or disturbed or upside down. Is that correct? Correct. He gave it some thought and listened very carefully. And he opined that he didn't believe that that was the case. He said, it's not off the table. But, you know, the space is so tight, this window, you know, that you would gain access through. And there is no underlying reason
area to kind of leverage yourself up onto the windowsill. The defense tries to drive a wedge between the certainty of the prosecution and Fortner, alluding to one Wagner who could have fit through that window. Admitted murderer, Jake Wagner. You prepared a report in this case, right? Yes. And in your report, you discussed looking for points of entry. Do you recall that? I do. And what is it you said about that as a potential point of interest?
As I've already testified, I said with the items there inside the window, I felt it was less likely to be a point of entry. Because it's such a tight squeeze to get through there and not disrupt those items. Even though you said it was unlikely, based on your observations, was it impossible? No, it was possible. Like I said, it would take somebody smaller and more agile, but not impossible. When he said that, I went back and kind of
reflectively looked at the images of Jake. You know, back during that period of time, on some level he's bulkier now, but back in 16, he was a smaller person. Jake could have made through back then, but I think it's highly unlikely. There's another point that we have to consider here. If you go through a window, particularly one you have to leap up to and kind of pull yourself through, there would be some remnant of you potentially, a much higher probability of some remnant of you left behind in that small space you're trying to wiggle through.
There was no DNA and no fingerprints were covered in or around the window.
Every contact leaves a trace. So everything that we do physically within the construct of a crime scene, if we touch a surface, we're going to leave some element of ourself behind, whether it's an oily fingerprint, whether it's a bit of fiber, whether it's a bit of touch DNA, which is shedding skin. And to my way of understanding, they didn't find any of that. The next morning, another attempt by the defense to shut down the trial. Here's Judge Deering.
A motion was filed earlier this morning, motion number 111, entitled motion for mistrial. Thursday began with another attempt by Wagner's defense team to get a mistrial in the case. But as he did Wednesday, Judge Randy Deering overruled that motion. Here again, Mike Allen on why the defense would file motions on back-to-back days.
They're making a record. From what I understand, it was an oral motion the day before yesterday. It was put in writing yesterday and filed, and the judge heard the one that is in writing today. It's all about making a record in case there's an appeal.
Again, Joseph Scott Morgan. If George is found guilty, it's immediately going to go up on appeal. And I can promise you this is going to be a point which they're going to argue on appeal. They're going to say these photographs were so prejudicial, so over the top, that it swayed them in an inappropriate manner. It painted my client as some kind of monster.
Soon after the exchange, Hamilton County Chief Deputy Coroner Dr. Karen Lohman returned to the stand. Dr. Lohman, can you tell us what we are looking at there? So this is a side x-ray of Dana's head. You can see she has some fillings in her teeth and she has one, two, three, four, about six large pieces of bullet and bullet fragments in her head.
Canepa, seeing the graphic nature of the photo, pauses for many awkward seconds. Lumen grimaces and looks down while Canepa decides what to do. She asks the judge to remove the photo from the in-room screen. From here on in, she only shows Dr. Lumen and the jury printed photos of the autopsies.
"Doctor, can you tell us when you did your examination of Dana Roden, how many gunshot wounds had she received?" "Five." Matriarch Dana Roden was in a nightgown in bed when she was shot. "And can you tell us where was gunshot wound number one located?"
On the diagram, number one is on the far left. It looks like it's on the right forehead. It's a little more on the side of the forehead. It traveled across following a relatively straight path to the left side of her head, struck the bone on the left side of her head but did not exit, and then fell inside her skull to underneath her brain. And gunshot wound number two, where was that located?
That is closer to the center of the right forehead. Shot three was similar. The other two grazed her skull and shattered her jaw. And can you tell us, do you have an opinion, were the bullets and projectile that you recovered from...
Dana Roden, was that consistent with the bullets and projectiles that you removed from Frankie Roden and Hannah Hazel Gilley? Yes. Okay. And inconsistent with the bullets and projectiles that you recovered from Chris Sr. and Gary Roden? Yes, that's correct. When initial photos of Hannah Mae Roden in a body bag are presented to Dr. Luhmann, Angie Canepa immediately draws attention to a tattoo.
Kier Stephanie. Hadame wrote in on her body, she has a little tattoo with the initials EJW on her hip.
Those initials, of course, are for Edward Jake Wagner. That's Jake Wagner's legal name. And it just paints a picture. At one point, she was deeply, deeply in love with him. This is a side view of Hannah's head. You can see that this elongated piece of metal and a shorter one there, those are the earrings that we saw previously in the previous picture. And then you can see some small, radio-opaque white earrings
pieces of bullet in her head. And when you conducted your examination of Hannah Roden, how many gunshot wounds did you observe her to have? Two. Here again, reporter James Pilcher. Hannah was the main target because she was the one holding up the issues with the custody. And yet she only got shot twice and the rest were, you know, Dana got shot five times. It makes no sense.
Hannah Mae Roden was shot in the upper left back of her head and behind her left ear. She was found resting facing away from the door to her bedroom. So if, for instance, somebody comes in through here, this individual sees that person and turns away either instinctively to because they see a gun and or to protect the child that's laying in bed with them.
Are the injuries and the pathways that you saw to her head consistent with that? Yes. Did you observe the shirt to be in any certain position? Yes. And what was that position? The shirt was pulled up over the right breast. And did you actually have some other abnormal finding when you did the internal examination of Hannah Roden or an additional finding? Yeah, not necessarily abnormal, but yes, there are additional findings. And what was that?
One of them was that she was lactating and the other was that her uterus was enlarged because she'd just given birth several days before. So it takes a while for your uterus to shrink back down. So I could tell that she'd recently given birth. Back in 2016, the weekend after the murders, Karen Luman returned to the morgue on Sunday after spending an entire Saturday with the bodies of Dana, Hannah Hazel, and Hannah May.
Chris Jr. was the first body she examined that day. The 15-year-old was found lying on his stomach, covered by a comforter. There were four shots to the right side of his head and face. And is that consistent with the body being positioned this way and somebody coming up and shooting him from this side? Yes. Yes. Did you observe any exit wounds to Christopher Jr.? No. No.
Did you collect the projectile that you recovered from within his head? Yes. Okay. Showing you what's been marked as dates exhibit K93, if you can tell me what that is. This is a bullet box labeled from the head, and it's holding all of the bullets in one box that we collected at autopsy. Here again, James Pilcher. Seeing the crime scene photos of Chris Jr.,
That afternoon, court adjourns for the week after hours of grueling testimony about crime scene three. Jurors who will decide George Wagner's guilt or innocence have a lot to think about this weekend. Let's stop here for another break.
MITRE's mission is to solve problems for a safer world. If you have a passion for applied cybersecurity with skills in infrastructure threat intelligence, deterrence technologies, advisal threat emulation, or intelligence analysis, explore the many challenging and fulfilling career opportunities at MITRE.org slash careers. That's M-I-T-R-E dot org slash careers.
Have you made the switch to NYX? Millions of women have made the switch to the revolutionary period underwear from NYX. That's K-N-I-X. Period panties from NYX are like no other, making them the number one leak-proof underwear brand in North America.
They're comfy, stylish, and absorbent, perfect for period protection from your lightest to your heaviest days. They look, feel, and machine wash just like regular underwear, but feature incognito protection that has you covered. You can shop sizes from extra small to 4XL. Choose from all kinds of colors, prints, and different styles, from bikinis to boy shorts, thongs to high-rise. You've got to try NYX.
See why millions are ditching disposable, wasteful period products and have switched to NYX. Go to knix.com and get 15% off with promo code TRY15. That's knix.com, promo code TRY15 for 15% off life-changing period underwear. That's knix.com.
Every day, we are driven to get the facts, find the sources, listen to the voices, and tell the stories that illuminate what matters. Democracy dies in darkness. That's where we come in. The Washington Post. Switch on. Subscribe today at washingtonpost.com slash iHeart.
M-O-D-O dot U-S. Visit M-O-D-O dot U-S for the best free play social casino experience wherever you are. Modo offers a huge selection of Vegas-style games and now introducing live blackjack, roulette, and casino hold'em. These are so much fun. Modo always has generous jackpots, free spins, and exciting promotions. Register today at M-O-D-O dot U-S for your free welcome bonus. Modo is a social casino, no purchase necessary. Void where prohibited. Play responsibly. Conditions apply. See website for details. M-O-D-O dot U-S.
Cindy Crawford has set high standards for healthy, gorgeous skin and hair for decades. Meaningful Beauty offers customers a streamlined routine with science-backed ingredients that Cindy calls her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Over 5 million women agree and have trusted Meaningful Beauty for over 20 years. Our revolutionary youth-activating melon serums
contains next-level melon leaf stem cell technology that visibly plumps, firms, and deeply hydrates skin and increases elasticity. Now formulated with Hydrosome H2O, a breakthrough technology designed to deliver best-in-class ingredients deeper into the skin for better absorption. This powerhouse serum is included in Cindy's skincare system with everything you need for younger-looking, radiant skin.
Monday morning comes quickly for a tired panel of jurors. Dr. Luman arrives for her final day of testimony.
It's the final day bearing witness to the most grisly details of how an entire branch of the family tree was chopped off in one night. In a previous episode, we analyzed Kenneth Roden's crime scene, known as Crime Scene 4, in depth. But Karen Luman adds an additional detail we had not heard about Kenny Roden's murder.
It is a refrain she touched upon across her testimony. James Pilcher.
Lohman said she could tell many of the victims died in their sleep. It became apparent looking at where the wounds were that it seemed that many of them were shot multiple times and never moved. Never appeared to have reacted to other people in the house being shot as well. Here's Jeff speaking with Mike Allen.
It's more detailed than we've ever gotten about the brutality of what happened to the Rodin family. And, you know, there didn't appear to be much of a struggle. And she said that's not normally the case. My guess is that they probably were asleep.
Because, I mean, if you hear a gunshot or if you see somebody coming at you, holding a gun or anything at that time of night, I think your suspicions would be raised. You didn't have any defensive wounds and nobody really resisted. Yeah, it's hard to picture it. I mean, it for sure to me points to the
Or could there be another reason no one woke up? They're getting further and further away from tying it to the actual defendant here.
We really got to get to the beginning when the plotting and planning and real conspiracy took place. And this is a fired bullet, a .40 caliber.
So the focus of testimony now is ballistics, the bullets that were found at each of those four crime scenes. It's part of a number of experts the state will be calling to show the jury the evidence to tie it to the Wagner family. They have to show this because we learned today there was no Wagner family members' DNA at any of those four crime scenes. More on that next time.
For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kt underscore studios. The Pikedon Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lidecker, Jeff Shane, Scott DeGraw, Andrew Arnau, Gabriel Castillo, and me, Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by Jeff Twa. Music by Jared Aston.
The Pikedon Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Please welcome our Fife County Dogwood Festival Queen. Lord, I just thank you for bringing us all together as a community. I'm a boy. I take my present home, Dad. There's blood all over the house. Who could have killed eight family members in one night?
I lost my best friend, and I will never be the same because of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses. The killer left those children laying in their mother's blood. The word that comes to mind is overkill. Who was the mastermind? I'm telling you, if they frame us, I'm not sitting in prison. One thing I learned...
The smaller the town, the bigger the secrets. Be sure to watch our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders, A Family Massacre, premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend, November 24th and November 25th. Please check your local listings, and our hearts are with the Rodens and the Gilley families.
MITRE is investing in a massive AI supercomputer to power a new federal AI sandbox. With AI's potential to drive transformational advances across industries, MITRE's expertise in healthcare, cybersecurity, transportation, finance, climate, and national security will be critical. Transform your career while helping solve problems for a safer world. Visit MITRE.org slash careers. That's M-I-T-R-E dot org slash careers.
Is getting gas at Exxon burning a hole in your wallet? What if I told you you can easily earn cash back while you fill up? Introducing Drop, the app that turns every fill-up into a reward. With Drop, you'll earn points to get free gift cards every time you fill up your tank. Download Drop and use code DROP66 to instantly receive $5 in points to jumpstart your savings journey. Don't miss out on turning your gas expenses into something rewarding.
Visit MODO.US for the best free play social casino experience wherever you are. MODO offers a huge selection of Vegas-style games with free spins, exciting promotions, and always generous jackpots. You can waste your time with the others, or you can win at MODO. Register today at MODO.US for your free welcome bonus. MODO is a social casino, no purchase necessary, void where prohibited, play responsibly, conditions apply, see website for details. MODO.US
For 25 years, Brightview Senior Living Associates have been committed to creating a vibrant culture and delivering exceptional services, making Brightview a great place to work and live. If you're looking for a rewarding opportunity to serve your local community and grow, we want you to join our team. Brightview Senior Living is growing and actively seeking vibrant associates to join our community teams, including directors, healthcare, activities, hospitality, and dining. Apply today at careers.brightviewseniorliving.com. Equal employment opportunities.
Text BVJOBS to 97211 to apply. If you're a smoker or dipper looking to make a change, you really only need one reason to do it. But with Zinn Nicotine Pouches, you can find many. Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch. It's made with only six simple ingredients. Plus,
Zin is the only nicotine pouch with a 10-day hassle-free trial. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zin. Find yours in online or in a store near you at zin.com slash find. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.
