Flu Attack (Season 1, Episode 21)
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And I'll see you next time.

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I love it, though. It's so good. Thank you. I love it, too. It's sweater weather here in New York, finally. Oh, thank God. I know. Hey, Cheesecakes, in case you're new here, what we do on this show, we're the Golden Girls Deep Dive podcast. So we've got a full-time researcher. We do funny, hilarious, amazing, good-looking recaps of the episodes. And then throughout, we give you little deep dives, like, sprinkled in. And then at the end, we do a fully-researched deep dive from something from the Golden Girls universe or universe adjacent. Today, it's you, girl. You're doing Alison Jones, the casting director. That's...

Right. She's so amazing. And you know what? I was just re-watching Barry on Max. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, with Bill Hader. And she has a hilarious guest starring role on one of the episodes. She's in the episode? Yeah. And the thing is, we had just recorded her episode like last week or the week before, My Deep Dive. We record things out of sequence. Yes. Cheesecakes. Anyway, so I'm re-watching. A peek behind the curtain. I know. I know. So I'm watching this episode of Barry and I'm like, that's my favorite.

That's so funny. To Phyllis from The Office of it all. Remember how Phyllis was an actual casting director on The Office? And they're like, wait, we need you. Like, you're so good. You're going to be great in this. Well, and I'm watching her just feeling all this admiration, like, you know, and just like eating Cheetos that night and just being like,

You know what, Allison? You'd love me because it's not about my looks right now, girl. No. But I'm still funny. Well, it is a really good deep dive. You've already recorded it. It's really interesting. Stick around, Cheesecakes. Also, join the Facebook group. We're doing really fun things. We recently did Cheesecake Happy Hour over Zoom, which you kind of only really knew about if you were in the Facebook group. So we had a couple hundred people show up. It was really, really fun. Yeah. It's the Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast Discussion Group.

Yeah, and last, if you have anything to write us about, please do so, okay? Info at goldengirlsdeepdive.com. Yeah, we want all your emails. We want them all. We want them all. All right, girl, what are we talking about today? We're going to launch right in. Here we are at Season 1, Episode 21. We are rounding third base, Patrick. I cannot believe we're almost at the end of Season 1. It is wild. This episode is called The Flu. You should know that it's probably my favorite episode of Season 1. I love that. Written by our friends...

Stan Zimmerman, hello, our good friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And James Berg. His writing partner extraordinaire. It was directed by Terry Hughes and it aired on March 1st, 1986. That poor guy, Stan Zimmerman, made the mistake of giving me his phone number. So now when I watch any of his episodes, I start texting him lines from the episode. Truly, like we're siblings now. I know.

He's kind of like, this is a little bit more than I signed up for, but I'm like, Stan, either you're in or you're out, girl. This is what it's like to know me. All right. Well, look, this is normally the part where we're like, oh, here's something interesting that happened in the world this week. Nothing interesting happened in the world this week. Not a thing. Not nothing. Both of us were like, did you have a current event? I was like, no. You were like, no, I'm like, great. And that's sad because the world has said nothing but nice things about us. I know. I know.

And we were just like, fuck you, world. You bored us this week. Nothing good opened up Broadway. There were no good books on the New York Times bestseller list. Not a single good song on the charts. Fuck you, March 1st, 1986. Fuck you. All right, so Patrick, why don't you start us in? How does this episode start? ♪♪

So we opened the kitchen. Sophia is taking measurements on a dress that Dorothy is wearing. Now, I've been giving Dorothy a lot of credit for looking great in these episodes. Everyone gives Dorothy shit for being ugly, being fat. She's neither one of those things. Her clothes are pretty good recently. This dress is so freaking ugly. Oh, I love this dress. You do? I have here, she is fitting Dorothy in a beautiful midnight blue velvet gown with a sparkly scarf.

Cut to you an opening night of Death Becomes Her wearing this exact... I'm like, that dress is so ugly. But also, can I just make a comment about how we open here real quick? Yeah, please. We've sent this before, but here's Sophia, 88 years old. Is she on her knees? Okay. Totally. I do love that it's a yardstick because it's not a ruler, ladies and gentlemen. She's a tall drink of water, that daughter. Because she's measuring Dorothy. Oh, for sure. She's altering this dress for Dorothy. But also, we get a real good gander of that linoleum floor. Yeah.

And there's also something on it. Is there? Like a stain? Like, there's something on the floor. Because I was like, ooh. What is that? Dirty floor. Dirty floor. I love it. I love it. Well, I think this dress is really ugly. It's got some kind of blue sequined. I'm like, train? Draping? I love it. Scarf? I think she's gorgeous in it. Okay. You know what? I'm an asshole. No, but I love. You're like Team Ugly. I'm Team Beauty. That's fine. And I will say, when we see it in the end and her in it, it looks weird because she's holding the scarf, like the sparkly scarf part of it. She's like holding it. It's a separate piece. But you know what I love?

love it when we don't agree because that's us and the cheesecakes. Like not everyone's going to like the same flavor ice cream. It's true. You're absolutely right. Some people like rum raisin. Who are you people? Those communists. Anyway, but Sophia is telling her to stand up straight because this is a lifelong issue we find out. Stand up straight. I am standing straight. No, you're not. You're slouching. You're trying to pretend you're not tall. You do it all the time. I do not.

Yes, you do. Ever since you changed schools in the fourth grade, the kids thought you were the substitute teacher. I mean, Stan, it's a good line. It's very funny. So Blanche enters looking lovely and coral. I said once again, she's matching the napkins from that dinner party episode. That's right.

That's right. She broke down and bought that dress she's been eyeing for a month. That's right. That's right. Because what's going on is they're getting ready for the banquet. There's like a big charity banquet coming up. And like, this is my favorite. I love this so much. At one point, Blanche is going to call it the social event of the season. Ever since I heard that line the first time, my friends have jokes about it. We say the social event of the season every time we're going anywhere. Oh, I love that. I just.

I'm going to steal that now. That these women are part of Miami society and every weekend is another charity ball. Yes. You know. I do love here too that Blanche, she explains to Dorothy why she didn't just wear the silk one that she wore last year. Well, I thought you were going to wear the same silk one you wore to last year's banquet. Oh no, I changed my mind. I decided too many people would recognize it. It is such a stunning shade of green. The only thing they'll remember is the way you fall out of it. Oh, Sophia. If you ask past people to come.

the color half of them would say flesh tones. Cassia, you're going to know my reference because she says it's such a stunning shade of green. And you keep, you always bring up frog green from, remember she told Virginia, her sister? Because Virginia made Blanche wear a green dress

in Virginia's wedding knowing that Blanche looks awful in green. Except we've seen her in stunning green outfit after another. I know. Now, Cheesecake and the Facebook group pointed out that they're getting annoyed that we're like taking this all very seriously and that part of the charm of the show is that like the history doesn't line up episode to episode. Oh, I'm not taking it seriously. It's hilarious. We're just saying it's really interesting to like watch the Golden Girls in this kind of way, which is like we're taking notes on it. We're studying it. We're reading about it. And like it

It's just funny to note the inconsistencies. Yeah. Because flesh really does look good in green. Now I want to see it on her. Exactly. I want to see those bosoms falling out. Bosoms and those flesh-toned bosoms. That joke made me laugh. Flesh-tone. Dorothy is saying that her mother's a little irritable because she doesn't have a date for the banquet. And Sophia's like, she's just being picky.

I just think it's funny that like this 81 year old woman is expected to have a date. Believe you me, if my husband dies in a terrible boating accident, I'm going to be dating for the rest of my life. This is not a slight to older people dating. It's just like we don't see Sophia. It's not part of her life. Yeah, exactly. You know, I have to say I have a note here. Thank you, Stan, for that late into R that you gave her because she says, well, you know, I don't have a date yet either.

Blanche Devereaux can't find a date? Oh, don't be ridiculous. My only problem is trying to decide which of my many suitors to flatter with an invitation. After all, it's a social event of the season. I guess you'll just have to break a few hundred hearts, Blanche. I know. I haven't had to disappoint so many men since Daddy tore down the treehouse.

These gentlemen figured out that she's, as he told us, he told us that she's funny with her R's. Blanche is saying, to be clear, it's not that she can't find a date. It's that she just hasn't decided who to, quote, flatter with an invitation. Exactly. Because once again, it is the social event of the season. It completely is. You know, I wrote here, classic Jim and Stan, brilliant.

So Rose enters. She's clearly not feeling well. She's looking for the aspirin. And Dorothy has this like, I don't know why this is funny. I'm going to give you three guesses why it's funny. Because it's done in threes. But it's also not only that, in my opinion, but it's also just the casual expertise of a person of a certain age who is just medicated up or has medications on hand for whatever malady should befall you. Because this is my medicine cabinet.

Does anyone know where the aspirin is? Buffered, time-release, or synthetic? Time-release, I guess. Capsule, tablet, or liquid? Gee, I don't know. Don't take the one with the childproof cap. You could die before you get the bottle open.

Gee, I don't know. I mean, it's a lot of options. Yeah, it's very funny. We also know that you don't want the capsule, remember, because of the Tylenol murders that we learned that was going on during this time? They stopped making them, I think. Oh, yes, they did. Because people were lacing them with cyanide. I remember just being so terrified as a kid. About the Tylenol murders? Well, yes. The idea that some Machiavellian criminal would take the time to, like, open up the one half and pour the thing in the other. Do you know what I was terrified of as a little kid? I remember...

distinctly being like five or six years old going to bed sobbing about nuclear war. Yeah. I was really afraid of nuclear war. You know what I was scared of as a little girl? What? And there's a meme about this too. Like as a little girl, I think from watching Gilligan's Island, I was terrified of quicksand. Oh, me too. And every time I would see sand in my neighborhood, I was like, is that it? Is that the sand that's going to get me? These TV shows really fucked us up. Princess Bride did it to me. Or The NeverEnding Story, like the swamps of sadness. Like they're just

sinking in the quicksand? Can you imagine drowning in sand? No, but I also can imagine merch that say swamps of sadness. For me, like just on each boob, on each titty bag, swamps of sadness. Anyway.

I don't know if that's a copyright issue, but I am picturing it. I love it. So we learn that Rose is feeling a little achy and Dorothy immediately panics. Oh, yeah. And it's so funny. And again, this laundry list that's so hilarious. She's like, achy? What kind of achy? Head achy? Stomach achy? Back achy? What achy? Dorothy, relax. It's probably just a little cold. She'll be

you'll be all right? Yes, but I won't. I hear a story about somebody catching a cold and I get one. I am very susceptible. I have low resistance. I have a tendency to be anemic, right, Ma? You're a hypochondriac. That too. Achy? What kind of achy? Headachy? Stomach achy? Back achy? What achy?

That was so perfectly Jennifer Simard, the actress. I heard your comedy actor voice. It was perfect. Listen, I just want Stan as my friend. But I find his writing so funny. I would read anything he wrote. But Blanche is saying, relax, Rose is going to be fine. And Dorothy is just saying, like, I'm very susceptible. I have low resistance. I have a tendency to be anemic, right, Ma? You're a hypochondriac. Well, that too. It's so funny.

Okay. So then Rose sneezes, Blanche says Gesundheit, and Dot recoils like a cobra. I'm so glad you said that because, like, well,

I hope that Bea never loses this because she is still acting like she's in a Broadway house and she's playing to the last role. Oh, I know. She recoils like a cobra. Like a cobra. About to attack. She's going to decide whether to attack. But I have a very quick thing about Gesundheit because I love that word. Oh, yeah. If you don't want to say God bless you, right? Yes. We all know Gesundheit. It was borrowed from German where it literally formed a combination of

which means healthy, and tight meaning hood. And wishing a person good health when they sneeze was traditionally believed to forestall the illness that a sneeze often portends. Oh, interesting. Yeah, and atheists love it too. I mean, I believe in God, but even I don't like saying God bless you. It feels like you're going to offend somebody with that.

Well, you know, it's another great option. And you don't have to be, you could be a believer to say it or an atheist, but you know. Now that we're here, can I just tell you, my husband sneezes so loudly. Like he sneezes, he's one of those that sneezes and it takes over his whole body. So it's not, so he's like, he's like Dorothy at the end of the episode. Oh yeah. He's not, he's not.

That's Dorothy at the banquet. We're getting ahead of ourselves, but my God, I laughed out loud for a full minute. I had to pause the show. I was laughing so hard. I know. Oh my God. I know. All right, back to where we are. So Dorothy is just saying, stay away from me. She's convinced if Rose comes anywhere near her, she's going to get too sick to go to the social event of the season. Dorothy's still on it. She's like, look, I'm going to go to the social event.

If I get near her, I won't need to go on Saturday because Sophia's up in arms like, stop moving already. I'm not going to get the dress finished. Yes. Rose goes to touch Dorothy. That doesn't go over well. It's funny, too, because there are moments where you can see the coldness between Bea Arthur and Betty White. I know. I know. You know, like there are definitely moments in the next episode where it's really kind of about...

Yeah. And there are moments where Dorothy's meant to be tender to her, but, like, Bea just cannot muster the warmth for Betty White. And it does bring up that whole, to your point, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Because...

Because we know now, I wonder if we didn't know, would we feel that way? Right, right. Because I do the same thing. I look at it and I'm going, how layered is that hatred that I'm seeing? I don't know. I know. Was it from day one, you know? We'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there. That's our next podcast. Yeah. There's interesting facts about when the next episode actually filmed. Oh, I can't wait. So, you know, Rose is saying, Don't worry, we'll all be at that charity dinner. What?

- This is just an allergy. Believe me, if I were coming down with something, I'd know it and I wouldn't risk getting the rest of you sick. - Oh, you don't have to worry about me, honey. I never get sick. I take very good care of myself. I treat my body like a temple. Yeah, opens everyone, day or night.

Yeah, open to everyone, day or night. I don't think I do a bad Sophia either. She's probably my second best impression. Your Blanche is really, really knocking it out of the park. That's the only one that's really good. I have moments where I like my Blanche too, but yours is reign supreme.

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So it's presumably the next day and the temples are very sick. All three of them. Right. And they're like, we see them on the couch and really it mimics almost immediately the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. Right. Because like Blanche is sneezing. Dorothy is coughing and has her hands over her ears. Rose is blowing her nose. Like one of them, I think Blanche has her hands over her eyes. I have it right here. I have a small thing about

this because I wanted to know about it. So it's not just an emoji on your phone. Cheesecakes, right? The three wise monkeys. You know, if you look at your emojis, they are doing those three things. Oh, wow. This is a Japanese pictorial maxim embodying this proverbial principle that we've just mentioned. And the three monkeys, they actually have names. Oh, Mizurao, Kazaru and Inazuma.

Iwazaru. Okay. All right. And so the first one is, yes, does not see covering the eyes. And we have that is Blanche in this case. Yeah. Dorothy, her ears and Rose covering the mouth. And there's different divergent interpretations apparently. In Buddhist tradition, it's about avoiding evil thoughts and deeds. But in the West, it's often interpreted as dealing with impropriety by turning a blind eye.

Oh. Yeah, but to your point, Blanche sneezes, Dorothy coughs, Rose blows the nose. Yeah. And they're like, Blanche feels hot, Dorothy feels cold, Rose feels guilty. This is all my fault. Oh, no, Rose. It's all my fault. The minute I found out you were contagious, I should have thrown you out on the street. I said I was sorry. Oh, I feel just terrible. My eyes are all puffy, my nose is red, my glands are swollen. Oh.

Isn't it amazing how I can feel so bad and still look so good? This is the beginning of Betty White's over-the-top, stuffed-up nose voice. You guys, I feel so guilty. Like, she does it for the entire episode. I know. And I hate it so much. It's so funny. I mean, Dorothy does it the best, but she also has an easier starting point. Because when you have a low voice... Yeah.

No, I mean no shade. But you all know when you get a cold, your voice drops, right? So it's already easier for her. But I have that both Dot and Rose do sick sounding really well. And Blanche not so much, but then the next scene she catches up. Like she doesn't sound like a sick person yet. But it's so fake to me. And Rose, she sounds like when she does like an imitation of a teddy bear. Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, it's my fault. I'm so guilty. You hate Rose. I hate Rose.

I kind of do hate Rose. I'm with Dot on that. But this is, we get this incredible Blanche moment where she's looking, like, they're all so sick. They feel awful. We've all been there. You know how it feels to feel like that. Yeah. And, like, the way that she's, like, she can't believe how good she looks. Oh, yeah. She's, like, doing that thing with her head where she cannot believe how fucking hot she is. I know. So, Sophia enters the living room in a plaid dress and a yellow apron, looking pretty

Very cute. And Sophia somehow manages to not get sick. Right. Which is like anybody who's ever had a sick kid, you all know you're all getting sick. Well, that's what I have later when the doctor gets there. I'm like, these women are like, you get the flu. If you're that close to someone with the flu, you're getting the flu. Absolutely. And the doctor is like basically French kissing Rose. Right? She is just down her throat. She manhandles them. We'll get there, Patrick. We'll get there. We'll get there. So Sophia's mad because Vinny Baglitella, the biggest church she knows, just turned down her invitation to the charity banquets.

What's his name again? Is it Bagatellia? I have Bataglia. Bataglia. What did I say? Bagatellia. Oh my God, that's funny. Oh God. And everyone's saying like, if he's such a big jerk, why'd you invite him? And she's just saying he's the only guy her age who doesn't wear his pants up to his chin. I hate that.

And I wrote here, what's the backstory with Vinny? Like, how do we know this guy? Why do we keep him around if he's such a jerk? Look, he's probably in his 50s. Remember from the first episode or the first couple where we're like, all these men in their 50s are just... They're like ready for the retirement home. They're just ready for the retirement home. Rose says it doesn't bother her. It just looks so painful. And we are saved by the doorbell. Sophia opens the door and it's the doctor. It's Dr. Richmond. It's a woman doctor. She comes in. She's looking for Dorothy's Bornax.

That's right. So Dorothy is saying they were expecting Dr. Harris. Yes. Which I think is a nod to Susan Harris. Oh, I think you're right.

right. Must be, right? Yes, I didn't catch that. Yeah. I love that. But Dr. Harris couldn't make it because Dr. Harris's wife was having a baby. To which Dorothy says, normally I'd be very happy for her, but right now I couldn't care less. What are you going to do for us? I thought it was pretty amazing that they found another doctor who makes house calls. I know. Well, that's so the sitcom can happen. Have you ever known a doctor to do house calls? Never. Never. Never what? I mean, only to deliver my babies. Right. Yeah. No, but

I know it's such a like wild, wild west thing. It's great. When I worked as a hotel concierge, we had a doctor who would come and make house calls to the hotel. It cost $600 just for him to come. Jesus Christ. And he didn't take insurance. You had to pay him cash or credit card. Yeah, I mean, the closest thing I can say in recent memory is I've had those IV treatments. Oh, yeah. And that if they come to you, that's around like 400 bucks.

Yeah, you know, but that's what's so great about Zoom medical now. Yeah. Oh, totally. You know, if you can do it that way. If it works. If it works. But she comes in and she starts examining the women. And I just, a couple of notes here. My COVID trauma is showing because these women are so sick and she's not wearing a mask. They're not. She's not. The same thing. None of us who live through COVID can watch this the same way. Like, she's very close to them. She's touching them. She never washes her hair. She doesn't ask for consent. My 2024 is showing. Yeah.

She doesn't like say like, can I touch you? She just starts putting her hands on their bodies. Right. And she's asking everyone like, what are your symptoms? And Rose is having a dream about being chased by a giant Listerine bottle. And then Dorothy says it's the same except hers is a bottle of Scope. Right.

She then goes over to examine Blanche. Now, Blanche sees her coming and she sees the way that she's just been touching the other women. You can see the look on Blanche's face like, oh, this bitch is about to touch me. Oh, yeah. And she says, she's like... No, this is the first time a female doctor's ever examined me. Feels kind of strange. I hear that a lot. You know, the truth is, despite the progress that women have made, medicine is still a man's world. So...

If it'll make you feel any better, I used to be a man. What?

Just a little female doctor humor. This is the first time a female doctor's have examined me. It feels kind of strange. And it honestly feels strange for me, too. Yeah. It feels strange for me to watch this woman touching Blanche. Exactly. Like, as an actor, is that uncomfortable? No. The only thing that I made note of when I was directed by the brilliant Marianne Elliott in Company was that prior to that, I'd been directed by a string of very successful, powerful men. Yeah. It just sort of made note of it. Yeah.

But I realized by no fault of these gentlemen that there was a Blanchism that I think I relied on. And I don't know if other women can relate to this, but there are times when as a woman to persuade, I have found myself using my, in a non-sexual me too way, using what I would consider my feminine wiles to maybe ask for what I want. Like in life or on stage? Well, in life, backstage, you know, with a director. It's just the dynamic between a man and power affected me a certain way.

Where, you know, I found myself censoring myself in a way of like, well, how do I phrase this to this man in a way that I could be heard? It was a different level of consciousness that I had, whether they were aware of it or not, I was aware of it. And then with a woman, it was really an interesting learning curve to see I didn't find myself censoring myself in the same way. Interesting. And...

I also didn't realize until I worked with her as a woman how much I think I felt that my femininity was a bit of a security blanket. Oh. Does that make sense?

that makes sense? A hundred percent. Because I feel like saying that a way that's understandable. Okay. And I hope it's not offensive. I just, it was something I learned only when she started directing me. I have felt that way in myself, leaning into my overt gayness to like, to either like cozy up to like maybe a fancy lady I want to talk to or in a new friend group to like feel like non-threatening, like I'm a gay guy. Right. And I think the non-threatening is the key here, you know, like, and again, this was never a conversation.

a conscious manipulation on my part in either scenario. But I, all of a sudden, when presented with a woman, I was like, oh, I don't know how to actually behave. Right. You know, in this power dynamic. Well, that's interesting because Blanche is having the same sort of thing. Like she's letting this woman touch her. Yeah. She's never been examined by a woman before. Yeah. And then the doctor makes the very great point that medicine is still stupidly a male-dominated world. Yeah. But then she goes on to make a joke you would never make today about how she used to be a man.

This is no shade to Stan. I think he would agree that you can't make jokes the same way now that you did that. It would be curious to ask him. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So the doctor, though, just lays it on the line after they ask what the verdict is. Sophia, the healthy one. Yeah. The 88-year-old who's not going to get the flu, everyone. And Dorothy is...

suspiciously not worried about her 88 year old she's worried about her mother in every other circumstance who lived through the first pandemic you know what was it you know the influence 1918 I have a little deep dive on that in a minute in fact oh great okay well perfect timing so let's get through this shit so we can get there

But she says, well, ladies, the flu is going around. I'm afraid you've all got it. Yeah. And Sophia's like, I told them that two days ago. Tell them something new for $50. Yeah. And they're all concerned about how long it's going to last because they've got the social event of the season coming up on Saturday. So, yes, Dorothy wrongfully guesses 24 hours, 48. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the doctor's like, no, girl, girl. No, girl. We're talking at least a week, girl. Yeah.

And, you know, like, there's no pill. There's nothing. You're just going to have to wait this one out. And if you're no better by Monday, give me a call. Yeah. And it's just like, you know, it is kind of funny that like where like Rose asks the question about like, why is there nothing you can give us? And it's kind of an interesting question about why don't we have a cure for the flu? I know. I mean, look what they came up with.

for COVID could really help. And I believe in getting your flu shots every year. I know that doesn't work for everyone, but it helps me. And also, can we agree that cinnamon dental floss sounds awful? Oh, yeah. Now, some people might love a cinnamon dental floss sitch. Yeah. I'm not one of them. I actually loved cinnamon. When I was a kid, we used to suck on the cinnamon dental floss like candy. I know. That's how poor we were, Jen. Oh, my God. I wouldn't say this, except you've said it so often, like me, like chubby little gay kid. Can you imagine just like you're like, I really want a snack.

Mom, where's the cinnamon dental floss?

So I got my little quick deep dive on the flu. Initially, I was going to do a deep dive on the flu, but then I was looking at the research and it was like super sciencey and not, it was just boring. So I was like, let me do like a quick deep dive on the flu epidemic of 1918. And if there are like parallels to COVID, because like that seemed interesting to me. So I found some really interesting facts. So the Spanish flu, which appeared in the fall of 1918, killed more people around the world than World War I. The war claimed 16 million lives. The flu epidemic killed 50,000.

50 million people. COVID-19 has now killed as many people in the U.S. as the Spanish flu did. There was also mask resistance in both pandemics. There was even an anti-mask league formed in 1918 of people downright furious that they were being asked to wear masks. Go figure. I know. Resisters to wearing masks during the flu epidemic complained about appearance, comfort, and freedom, even as the flu killed 195,000 Americans in October alone. Wow.

Wow. And they're like, we don't really want to wear the masks. Get this. Alma Whitaker, writing in the Los Angeles Times on October 22nd, 1918, reviewed masks' impact on society and celebrities, saying famous people shunned them because it was, quote, so horrid to go unrecognized. Oh. It's so horrid.

It's my favorite thing about mask wearing. Yeah, I'm sure. I feel like famous people love that the most. Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm hardly famous, but as an introvert, I'm like, oh, God, no one can see my face. I was thinking, like, you must avoid 9th Avenue and Hell's Kitchen like the plague. You must get stopped every block. You know what? That's the gay neighborhood. Yeah. 8th Avenue's hard. Once you get to 10th and 11th, the world opens up. Just delicious. I know. Yeah.

So the Spanish flu lowered U.S. life expectancy by 12 years. Wow. And the flu epidemic only ended when the virus ran out of people to infect. Yeah. The pandemic finally came to an end during the summer of 1919. Although a very minor fourth wave of the flu appeared in spring of 1920 throughout isolated areas of New York City, the pandemic ended simply because individuals who were infected either died or developed immunity. I love that we went to some science, Patrick. I know.

But not too much science. Not too much science. And as Sophia says, modern science is overrated. She's talking about home remedies. And we all love, I love a home remedy. Same. And Blanche, I love Blanche's mama's home remedy. You know, Sophia, you're absolutely right. When I was a little girl, mama used to rub eucalyptus oil on our necks and then tie a sock around to keep it warm. I cleared your sinuses up just like that. My mother always used to sing to us and make us gingerbread bed. Really, Rose? Yes.

I think Michael DeBakey does that before surgery. And I had to look this up because, like I said, I was a teenager at the time of this. I didn't know who Michael DeBakey was. Me either. Like a famous surgeon? What? Look, if we don't know who it is, I'm guessing many of the cheesecakes don't know either. So bear with me. He's goddamn fascinating. Really? First of all, he lived to almost 100 years old. Wow. Just like our girl Betty White. Yeah. September 7th, 1908 to July 11th, 2008. Wow.

He was a cardiovascular surgeon, scientist and medical educator. And he was considered by many to be the greatest surgeon ever. Oh, my God. The Journal. That's what the Journal of American Medical Association said in 2005. Because get this, his pioneering surgical procedures in bypassing blocked arteries in the neck,

legs, and heart have been performed on millions of patients around the world. By the time he stopped a regular surgical schedule when he was in his 80s, he had performed more than 60,000 operations. Oh my God. And he was a leader in developing mechanical devices to assist failing hearts. An early invention of his was something called the roller pump. It was devised when he was in medical school in the 1930s

And it became the central component of the heart-lung machine, which takes over the function of the heart and lungs. That's a gasp of recognition across the table for me. We've all seen it. All right. And he says it took over, you know, breathing and the heart pumping during surgery by supplying oxygenated blood to the brain. Whoa. And it helped inaugurate the era of open heart surgery. My dad's had two open heart surgeries. I mean. You are literally sexually turned on right now. I'm just.

flabbergasted. Like I sing and dance for a living. I mean, look what I do for a living. Jesus, Dr. DeBakey. Anyway, and I do this for a living. Thank you. I'm a podcaster. Thank you. One of Dr. DeBakey's innovations helped preserve his own life. In 2006, when he underwent surgery to repair a torn aorta, he had devised the operation that saved his life 50 years earlier. Oh my God. That's all I have on him. That's amazing. But can you imagine, like, I just think he's

fucking amazing and I couldn't wait to talk about him. Because I went from not knowing anything like who's this loser? Totally. Do you know what I mean? And I wonder what it was about like Stan and Jim that they loved this guy. They wanted to put him in the episode. Oh, those nerds. I know.

I love it. Well, now we get a great story from Sophia. In Sicily, we never went to the doctor. We went to the widow Caravelli. Whatever you had, she had a cure. She was best known for this green salve she used to make to treat ear infections. One day, she gave a batch to Salvador, the village idiot. He misunderstood the directions and put it on his linguine instead of in his ear. I guess if you're an idiot with a hearing problem, you do things like that.

She gave a batch to Salvador, the village idiot. Are we talking about Sophia's husband? Maybe. Maybe it's like Mrs. Claxton number two. Was it Frida? There's two Claxtons, right? Frida Gladstone or whatever. Frida Gladstone? I don't know. But it's funny that they would choose to make another character from the village named Salvador when we know that that's Sophia's husband. I love it. Anyway, he basically...

misunderstood the directions and he put the green salve on his linguine and but it ended up tasting great and then he like decided it was so good that he was gonna market it and call it pesto now my thing here is like what kind of village idiot are we talking about he like is a marketing genius and invented pesto i know he's not that much of an idiot sofia listen if it's not her husband it must be mama celeste bow right

What an empire they've made. So we're on approximately day three of our captivity. Blanche enters the living room wearing presumably her mama's recipe, eucalyptus oil on her scarf, right? And she is none too happy. Dorothy is laying on the couch. She's under a blanket. Look.

looking miserable and Blanche is looking for her heating pad. Where's my heating pad? How should I know? If this isn't it, I'd like to know what other electrical appliance you're using under that blanket.

Glad you can't have it. I need it. My chest is congested. Well, what about my chest? It needs heat, too. I don't care about your chest. I just care about my chest. Well, you're the only one who does. This isn't it. I'd like to know what other electrical appliance you're using under that blanket. It's so good.

And it just gets a big, huge laugh. Yeah. Everyone is at each other. And this is where I have the question, like, would being sick with, like, your best friends be the best thing or the worst thing? I think they kind of ride the line because, you know, they make up later. Yeah. But I think you feel so fucking bad. I can only speak for myself. Me too. When I feel that bad,

I like to know that I have the help of someone who can, sorry, get like, it's great. We live in a seamless DoorDash world. Oh, yeah. Before that, you know, you do depend on someone maybe to bring you things. But that being said, I take to my cave. I'm like a guy that way. Like, yeah, this woman likes to be in her cave just like a man. Like, just I don't want to be seen. I don't want to be touched. Leave me alone. So I imagine being with roommates in shared spaces might be difficult.

I need to be taken care of. I need my husband to just, but my husband, he, I love him to pieces. He is the least empathetic person when it comes to a family member being sick. He gives me no room. And I think it might be because I need to be taken care of and he just doesn't feel like doing so. He will, he will give me no room when I'm sick, but you know, who's a great caretaker. My 10 year old daughter.

She will make sandwiches. She will bring you water. One time she didn't know what to do, so she cut up a bunch of carrots and put it in a bowl and brought it to Steve for a snack. She'll give you a little kiss on your cheek and then she'll check on you. I know. My daughter is a very good little caretaker. Oh, that's very sweet. It's very sweet. Get it, Daisy. I know. I just see you as an old man with a bedpan. I know.

Right around the corner. If that was an option, I'd be there right now. Sophia enters. She's still working on Dorothy's dress. I love it when like a sick Dorothy, she has the energy to just scream about something. Right. Because she's like, how am I?

kidding I'm never gonna be able to go to this thing this weekend I know and she's so cranky did you learn nothing in the hospital from your patient roommate who had breast surgery Bonnie by Santa Claus Bonnie I know she's crying going I feel like a fool like a damn fool

She's right back. She's right back to forgetting all of her blessings. That's exactly right. But it wouldn't be our dot without some curmudgeonliness. Exactly. And, you know, Sophia's like, can I have your date? Dorothy's like, who am I kidding? Take my date. Take my dress. Just take my dessert at the dinner. And she says, just leave me alone with my thermometer and the one nostril I can breathe out of. Now, this is great. Rose enters. Rose is in a great mood. We're going to find out why in a second.

She's in a great mood. She found her folk medicine book. And I was like, I can only imagine what's in there. Like the St. Olaf folk medicine book. Can you imagine? Clearly there's someone being hit over the head with a log at some point. Exactly. Gets rid of headaches like that. Totally. Great news, girls. I found my folk medicine book. It has a cure for everything. I hope it has a cure for crankiness. A lot of that's going around.

Cranky? Cranky. Would it be ever anything else? Try garage. Oh, come on, girl. Now, let's put on a happy face. We'll get better much faster. My cousin Dennis was a perfect example of that. When he was 16 years old, he caught his sideburns in the hay baler. Shut up, Rose.

Shut up, Rose. And Rose thinks she doesn't realize this was gang up on Rose Day. And Blanche with the savagery, she says, I've been cooped up listening to your stupid stories for three days now. You're just lucky it isn't string rose up from a tree day. Which I just thought was very funny. And so they go on and on. And, you know, Dorothy's like, you know, how can you be so disgustingly cheerful? And now, to Patrick's point, we do found out. Sorry. Patrick's point, we do found out. We do find out. God damn it. So now...

Jennifer, keep it. Anyway, we find out why she is so happy. Rose, you're sick as a dog. How could you be so disgustingly cheerful? It's my folk medicine book. It has the most wonderful hot toddy recipe. Here, taste. Rose, this stuff should have an octane rating. I know.

Basically saying that like this is full of booze. And we learn here Rose is hammered. Yeah. Rose is totally sloshed. That's why she's in such a good mood. And she plays the slosh pretty funny, I have to say. She gives us a good like drunk giggle as she walks away. She does. So I got a little deep dive on the hot toddy. Oh, give it. Because I was a bartender for a long time and I used to make hot toddies all the time. And I love the history of a cocktail. So the hot toddy originates from the Hindi word tiffin.

which in the 1610s, British-occupied India was a drink made with fermented palm sap. By around the mid-18th century, Taddy had evolved into the beverage made of alcoholic liquor with hot water, sugar, and spices. And there are two versions of the story of how the Taddy evolved into the hot toddy.

Mm-hmm. So one takes place in Edinburgh where the pubs would serve Scottish whiskey with hot water to keep their clientele warm because it's freezing and raining there all the time. Allegedly in the 18th century, the water came from Edinburgh's Toddian Spring, also called Todd's Well, the largest spring in the area, lending its name to the drink. Oh.

Another story involves an Irish doctor, Robert Bentley Todd, who prescribed his patients a recipe of hot brandy, water, cinnamon, and sugar. It is said that he became familiar with a similar recipe in India from which he adapted his own mixture. And then he named it after himself. But the real question is, do hot toddies have medicinal value? Yeah. Right? Eric Asher, a doctor practicing family medicine at Lenox Hill Hospital here in New York City says, though while a hot toddy does have medicinal properties, those don't come from the alcohol. Right.

He says, quote, hot toddies, as the name implies, are served hot. Heat does wonders for someone when sick. A hot beverage can soothe the throat and can provide someone who is shaking with chills the feeling of comfort and a warm hug. As she said, the heat also helps to break down and thin out mucus to help clear it from the body. And the alcohol is going to dehydrate you, though. Yeah, but it's going to make you giggly and fun like Rose. Yeah, like it's a pain reliever. For sure. For sure. Cheesecakes, if you want the recipe, here's a quick, like the best hot toddy recipe. So it's $20.

No, it's two ounces, not 20 ounces of scotch or bourbon or rye or Irish whiskey, any sort of dark liquor, right? Three quarters of an ounce of light honey, such as acacia or maple syrup or one teaspoon of sugar and one three inch lemon peel and then a cinnamon stick and a whole star anise to garnish. You know what? Anise sounds dirty.

And I do think, I think you could handle the 20 ounce. I do. I'm going to handle it later at our happy hour. That's right. Jennifer, keep it. Also, I'm glad to know the history and that that all makes sense because I was thinking maybe they just changed vowels because they liked the assonance of the O. Totally. And like toddy sounds less gay than tatty. Hey, let's get a hot tatty. I'm not having it until a tututty. I'm on a hot tutty.

But to finish the recipe, you basically put all those ingredients in a hot cup and then you fill it with water. With hot water. That's really complicated. But you do have to go to Edinburgh to their spring to get the water or else you can't call an Itani. It's like flour from France to make a baguette. Exactly. Okay. Well. So now Dorothy blows her nose in the most over-the-top fashion possible. Blanche screams at her to basically just shut the hell up. I am totally on Blanche's side. Okay. The blowing of the nose and the loud sneezing. Can we all take it down a notch? Sure.

Sometimes you can't help it, though. I know. You know? But, you know, and that's what Rose says. She can't help it, Blanche. She has to blow her nose. And then she makes a joke. Or is that a banana? Right. It's hammered Rose making a joke at Dorothy's expense. That's right. And, you know, when Dorothy said, you miserable, that was one of those moments that I was like, is she getting out her hatred for Betty White on this line? She actually hates her. Right? I know. It's true. It's true.

You know, I have this note here. I'm like, it is time for everybody to go to their rooms. Like, they're doing each other no good trying to be together communally in the living room. But they're not going to because instead of the bar cart, we have a TV. And the TV is tiny. Eventually we get like a really big TV, but right now it's really small. So Blanche says, oh, would you two knock it off? It's time for another world. And Dorothy is not having it. It's time for another world. You can't watch another world.

and why not because you watched it yesterday that's exactly why i have to watch it today dorothy to find out what happens that's why they always say stay tuned for the continuing story of another world too bad too bad blanche today it's my turn to choose and we are not watching another world you are undoubtedly the meanest sick person i've ever met

not to mention the most unattractive. I love Rue McClanahan's through-the-teeth, rageful delivery of this line, which I will try to impersonate for you now. That's exactly why I have to watch it today, Dorothy, to find out what happens. That's why they always say stay tuned for the continuing story of another world.

That's perfect. Another world. It's so good. Another world is like Daniel J. Trevante. Dorothy is not having it. No. She takes it away. Then Blanche has to insult Dorothy the only way she knows how by calling her ugly. With all the things they could be doing besides watching TV. Yeah. Cheery drunk Rose wants the girls to either, they can play cards, they can listen to records, they can bake cookies. Can you imagine them baking cookies and like sneezing and coughing all over them? Yeah, and like,

I just don't want to be anywhere near butter when I'm sick. That sounds awful. Or like a hot oven. Like, what are we doing? Lie down. Go to bed, everybody. You know what I was thinking of, though, just as you were reading that? What? Just how you cannot believe that you're a rose. And almost every week, you're like, I love to be social. I just, I can't be, I just can't wait to find out what people are doing on a Friday or Saturday night. And like, you are a rose. It's true. And I like don't know anything. I can't pronounce words. You can't. No. No.

No. But I love this too because then Blanche makes a joke about this not being a Girl Scout jamboree. Drunk Rose fires back. I was just trying to be kind, courteous, and helpful. Oh, three fingers, Patrick. See, you don't know anything. See, I don't know anything. No, three fingers, yeah. She does the Girl Scout pledge. Yeah, the salute. Yeah. And I just have to point out, you did the Boy Scout salute, which was two. Oh, God. And then I showed you it was three. And just now you did four.

All right. I just love Hammered Rose being sassy. I was just trying to be kind, courteous, helpful. Well, Doc, it all. I've had it up to here with your cheerful disposition. Oh, yeah. Do you think it's easy to be cheerful around you two? You know how many of these stinking hot toddies I have to drink to keep out a happy face?

Well, I'm not going to do it anymore. I'm not speaking to either of you. And I'm not speaking to you either. Me neither. To either of you. Fine. Fine. I'm just trying to get my day drink on. You guys are really killing the buzz. You're really killing the buzz. We have two repeat one, two, threes, not only in words, but in door slamming. Oh, yeah. Right? So, like, they decide they're not speaking to one. And it helps that there's three roommates that are in the mirror. I mean, let's be clear. But, yes, I'm not speaking to either of you. And I'm not speaking to you either. Me neither. To either of you. Fine. Fine.

Fine, fine. Yeah. Sophia comes in. Great news. I got a date. Well, excuse me for trying to have a life. Slam, slam, slam. Yeah, it's good. It's really good. I love watching you do all three of them at once. I get so impassioned about it. It's so good. Okay, good.

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So this is great. Next scene, we're in the kitchen. We're coming back from commercial. The music is very dramatic. It's giving like after school special vibes, the music. For your knowledge and for our good friend Stan. Yeah. This next scene is literally something I have been interviewed about. I have said in interviews-

My friend Seth Rudetsky loves that I talk about this scene specifically. Oh, wow. I use it as an example of comedy that I tried to use as Rona in my Broadway debut in Spelling Bee. And it's one of those examples of just how to best use a prop to your advantage for comedy. Yes.

And that's all I'm going to say. And take it away. No, it's so good. So Dorothy is sitting at the table drinking orange juice. She's got a glass and she's got the pitcher, right? Rose walks in. They kind of look at each other. They are not speaking. Rose walks past Dorothy, goes over to the refrigerator. Remember, they're all

sick. They're trying to get their vitamin C on. Rose opens the refrigerator looking for orange juice and there's nothing there. So she asked Dorothy, do we have any orange juice left? Dorothy, still with like a two-thirds full glass of orange juice, takes the pitcher, pours the rest of it into her glass, then shakes it to get every last drop out, puts it back down, and then dryly just looking nowhere goes, No, we're all out. Sip. Sip. Sip.

I just wrote, I am scream laughing. Screaming. Screaming. It's so damn funny. Blanche enters. She's looking gorgeous in this purple silk bathrobe. Rose is also looking, she's wearing this pink silk bathrobe. Yeah, the pink one. That's right. It's beautiful. And Dorothy. It's like, it's the Arnie cruise ship bathrobe. Yeah. Literally. And Dorothy is sitting at the table wearing like a beach towel. Like her, she's wearing this awful cotton, like it's so ugly. You know, it absorbs the sweat though. Oh, yeah, exactly. It's a good choice. It's a good choice. Blanche walks in and she wants everything.

answer somebody has stolen her Vicks VapoRub and she is fucking pissed. That's right and Rose is like I took it. I took it and my chest was already completely coated. I did it out of spite because you lost the pre-measured cup off my night quill. Rose I took your stupid cup and you know why? Because I feel lousy and being mean to you makes me feel better.

Dorothy's Borneck. You can go straight to H-E double hockey sticks. Bea Arthur saying it to Betty White. That's right. She means it from the bottom of her soul. Congrats, Stan and James. James is like the snuffleupagus to me of this writing pair. I know he exists and I credit both of them. Thank you, invisible snuffleupagus. Oh, we love you. Writing partner to Stan. Rose says, Dorothy's Borneck. You can go straight to H-E double hockey sticks. No, I fully

believe that that is something Rose would say. Oh, yeah. I believe that Rose would not say hell. That is a child's swear. That's right. 100%. And now they're just making fun of Rose for saying that. So Blanche crosses to her and gets in her face. Yes. And she goes, Rose Nyland, you know what you are? You are an A1 first class all around nerd. And then Rose looks like she's going to scream back, but then she can't take it because she's probably hungover. Yeah. And she's now, her face crumbles and she looks like she's about to cry. And so it's a step too far.

And you know that moment. We've all been there. We just take it one. You've crossed the line. And Blanche is like, oh, honey, I didn't mean that. I'm sorry. Oh, it's just this flu. It's making me crazy. And it's kind of nice because like this moment breaks the spell. Finally. You know, they all kind of make up. They stand up for a hug. They want a group hug. And just as they're all hugging, Sophia walks in. Yes. And she's like, what is going on here? And they're like, we're having a group hug. And Sophia tells them to knock it off before the neighbors get the wrong idea. I know. And I was like, what?

Do you really think the neighbors are going to think that they've now become a three-way lesbian throuple? Well, we don't know their neighbors, do we? That's true. Frida would. Frida would be on there. Frida would be contrarian no matter what she thought. That's true. Right? She's certainly not living on a street full of lesbians. Not Frida Claxton.

Sophia says that she just called the chairperson, Harriet McConnell, to cancel their reservations to the banquet. Who's Harriet McConnell to you, girl? I want to know where we get this name from. And so Dorothy says, thanks. But, you know, Sophia says, well, she was disappointed that you're not coming. This lays up the next very important thing. She was very disappointed you all aren't coming. And I think it's because one of you won the big award. You mean the Best Friends of Good Health Award?

Yeah. Why? What'd she say? It wasn't what she said. It was what she didn't say. What didn't she say? How the hell do I know? She didn't say it. I read between the lines. She's, I think it's because one of you won the big award. Now, Rose stands up and she's like, you mean the best friend of the friends of good health? I thought that was meant to be a laugh line. Like, what a ridiculous name for an award. The best friend of the friends of good health.

And I have right here, I'm like, it made me laugh so hard, it sounds like a nonsense thing. You know what it sounds like? It sounds like you're tagged to our show. Thank you for being a friend by telling a friend about our podcast. People are making fun of me in the Facebook group about it. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like, anyway. They're going to love that I just said that. They're like, off to be a friend by telling a friend about the podcast. Toodaloo. Well, thank you, Cheesecakes. And I support him fully. But can't you see it? Like, we are the nuns of the order of the best friend of the friends of good health. Yes.

You know what I mean? Yes. I love that. As a Catholic, too. I really appreciate it. Well, you were also in Nonsense. I played so many good nuns. Well, a disaster, Sister Mary Downey. Oh, of course. Nonsense. I was in Sister Act on Broadway. Oh, my God. Yes. You know I love a nun. We are the sisters of the order of the best friend of the friends of the friends of good health. Like, it's just, it's so funny. Yeah.

Anyway, this is also another great exchange because they're all like, wait, what do you mean? Like, what did she say? And Sophia's like, well, it's not what she said, it's what she didn't say. That's right. I wanted to say this thing here because Sophia is telling them important information. Yes. But I also feel like Sophia, she knows what's going to happen if she's like, well, I think maybe one of you won the award because she says it and then she goes and sits in the

background and she just watches the chaos erupt. You think she knows she's getting the award? No, no, no. I think Sophia knows she's about to start a fight with the girls. I hadn't thought of it that way. I only thought of that because Sophia goes and sits in the, and you can see her in the background watching the fight. She doesn't try to stop the

Machiavellian. And it just devolves into a fight. And I just thought that was a thing that Sophia would do for her own amusement. All right. I love that. You know? So Blanche and Rose have a bit of a love fest back and forth. Yes. And Dorothy chimes in where basically Blanche thinks Rose stands a good shot and Rose says that Blanche has a good shot and they start giving lists of all the good deeds they've done. Now, can we talk about that for a second? Sure. Because Blanche is saying to Rose, you took part in the walk-a-thon, the bike-a-thon, the tell-a-thon, and then Rose chimes in and also the marathon, but who keeps track? Yeah. Just to point that out.

Right. So then when it's like, well, but Blanche, you've done so much, too. You have a better chance of winning. You work with the senior citizens. You put in time at the daycare and you were the volunteer dummy for the fireman CPR class. We'll get to that joke in a second. Exactly. Where on earth are they finding the time to do all of this? I mean, like this amount of charity work sounds absolutely exhausting. They've done it over the course of a year. They have their weekends. I guess that's true. Also, can you imagine Blanche working at the daycare center? Because I cannot.

I know, I know. Although she's been really good with like her niece and her grandson. Yeah, I guess I'm having a hard time watching Blanche, the least maternal in her older age. I'm not saying she wasn't a good mother. But like right now she does not want babies around. Sure, that's true. You're not meeting men at the daycare center. You know what I mean? Well, maybe she's meeting single dads. Right, I guess that's true. And also I took to the walk-a-thon, bike-a-thon, tel-a-thon. It's not that she was doing...

all of those. She's maybe on the phones, you know, and the marathon. Like she's, you know, who knows? I love that they're doing the good work. It's just, that's not what I'm doing with my Twilight years. With my Twilight years, I'm going to be sitting by the pool drinking cocktails. A hundred percent. And having Steve take care of you when you're sick. And like Daisy making me sandwiches. And Daisy clearing your bedpan. And that's what it's going to be. Daisy, daddy's bedpan is full.

But this section transitions to where it starts to all go awry because Blanche says, after all, besides you, who else is there? Ouch. Besides you and me. And Dot clears her throat. And then she's getting chided for not using her handkerchief. Exactly. And she's like, no, really, Dorothy lists what she's done. She was the co-chairman of the committee to raise funds for the new Bloodmobile. She sold 49 cases of peanut brittle. What?

And, you know, Blanche was like, you really think selling candy is going to qualify you for that prestigious award? Right. Yeah, and then Dorothy snouts back at Blanche because what we left out here is that Blanche was the dummy for the male CPR, the firefighter course or whatever. But Blanche was the one who made them do the course in the first place. Right. So Dorothy shoots back. Oh, excuse me. I didn't realize that slipping by tongue to half the firemen in the county was the more lofty social. Oh, sorry.

The audience was a step too far. They were. So, Fia can call her a slut all she wants, but Dorothy points out she was slipping her tongue to the fireman. Hands off the slut. Wait, I just had this image, too. I know it's CPR, but I just can picture her just being hoisted, her teeny tiny body being hoisted over their shoulders. Her tiny little frame. You're going to carry me out of the smoke-filled room. She's so tiny. They put their masculine arms around her tiny little waist. Rose, very dry and very funny, says, well,

well, I guess that settles it. Right. I guess I won the award. Yeah. And now everyone's mad again. And Rose is like, not only that, I'm going to the award show. I'm calling my date Blanche. All she knows how to do is insult people for their looks. That's it. She says, honey, if you can get a date with the way you look, you deserve that award. And obviously, and again, these writers are so smart. Yeah. By having Blanche insult their looks, it makes the payoff so much better with what happens to her at the end of the episode. Totally. And we'll get there. We'll get there. Yeah, yeah. Well, anyway, Rose says, well,

Why don't you call your day, too? I would just love to have you there so you can eat your heart out when I accept the award. Oh, don't worry. I'm going to be there because I'll be the one accepting the award. Well, if you're both going, I'm going, too. I have just as much chance of winning as you do. You have done some good work, Dorothy, but not enough people like you.

Sorry. You have done some good work, Dorothy, but not enough people like you. Sorry. It's so funny. It's such a good line. And she does it, though, in that cold sound that you don't like, where she's like, sorry. Yeah. Sorry. Not enough people like you. Sorry. Sorry.

Rose exits. And then, like, there's another slight to Dorothy, which I don't like. Dorothy's asked her mother, you think I've got a good shot at winning, right? Sophia says, absolutely, as long as they don't add a swimsuit competition. Oh, man. So mean. So we're at the banquet. They have no business being there. No. And I got to tell you, this is the social event of the season. And once again, I know it's

I know that it's for the TV show, but it's like the lights are bright as day. Yeah. No one's talking. It doesn't look fancy at all. The room isn't that nice. These rooms do look kind of garish. So I thought it looked actually the way it's supposed to look. The social event of the season. You're going to be

And you're going to be like seeing and be seen. Could it be by the ocean? We're in Miami. We're like in a conference room somewhere. Could it be a location? Could we go to the Gower Studios parking garage? Absolutely. We have Rose gives three sneezes. They're teeny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Rose's date says, doesn't she have the most adorable little sneeze? And then Dorothy gives us a really loud sneeze. I said she sneezes like an elephant. Oh, my God.

And I have here, Dorothy's date gives the most flawless delivery. It's so funny. It's okay. I didn't want my salad anyway. Yeah.

He just delivers it. Genuinely annoyed. But genuinely, but he doesn't overplay it. No. And I also love, too, that we always get the backstory of how they met. We don't know these people's names. We have no idea how they know each other. It's like, this guy seems to really like Rose, but we never hear about him again. We never see him again. I mean, she is sneezing and coughing, offering her sucret. He's so lovely to her. I know. He's the one that got away, Rose. But also, in a post-COVID world, I'm like, you motherfucker. Why did you... I know.

Hey, Rosie, motherfucker. I know. Thanks a lot. The sneezing, the coughing, it is absolutely disgusting. Blanche enters. She is so savage about how the ladies look. Well, good evening, everybody. Ladies, you're certainly looking... Never mind.

I love that between the certainly looking and never mind. She reminds me of Goldie Hawn in First Wives Club. Oh, yeah. She's like, Monique, does this look like the face of a mother? Because she's the same thing. She's like, you're certainly looking. Never mind. You know what I'm saying?

It's just, it's what's, oh, God. It's so good. Blanche also doesn't have a date. No. She's like, my date will be along shortly. Don't worry about it. They're all just fighting over who's going to win. Yeah. And now Dorothy, because Blanche says she's going to win. And then Rose says, Blanche, you must still be running a fever. You're hallucinating. I'm going to win that award. Dorothy starts to laugh. And then she is hacking coughing so loudly. Yeah. She has like three ha-ha's that turn into a cough. Yeah. Ha. Ha.

I mean, I...

I have hair. The laugh turning into a cough. I could not stop laughing as I typed. So, Sophia enters looking lovely in her sparkly purple dress. We never see Sophia, like, dressed up fancy like this. She looks great. And she's got a date. And we just found out in last week's episode that she hasn't had sex in 15 years. So, I'm like, is tonight the night, girl? Tonight's night with Raul. Raul. He's cute. She's introducing him. He says...

It's a pleasure to be here. Rose is like, hey, it looks like we're all here. And Blanche gets up from the table. She's like, oh, there's my date now. So clearly she's insecure that even... We now know that because of what's coming, we know that Blanche is insecure that even 88-year-old Sophia has a date. Exactly. And I do wonder how Blanche didn't end up with a date. Like, how does she not get a date for this thing? And at this moment, we don't know that she genuinely doesn't have a date. We think, oh, he must be lost. So she just...

we're with her, like, okay, she's getting up for some reason. And he comes over and he sits down. He's very handsome and he's very young. I want to introduce you to my friend, Tommy Cochran. She starts going on and on about what an amazing writer he is. His CV, basically. Right. The New York Times says he's the most exciting new novelist to come along since Mr. Norman Miller. And you look at the actor and he's like smiling and nodding. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then, like, another waiter comes out of the kitchen and screams at the guy. Hey, Cochran, what are you sitting with the guest for? It's time to serve the main course. Oh, my God.

You want me to come back after dessert? No. Do I have to give back the $25? Yes. I don't think that's fair. Then give me 10 and get out of here. It's so fucking funny. I know. The concept, the delivery. I know.

I mean, Blanche. So we have questions, right? Tommy says, you want me to come back after dessert? Blanche in full humiliation. No. Tommy, do I have to give back the $25 and to make it stop? She's like, yes. And he says, I don't think that's fair. Like, then give me 10 and get out of here.

I have him written in parentheses. I was like, God damn, Stan. I know. It's so good. It's so funny. And then she goes on with her speech. She's like, well, what are y'all looking at? All right. Maybe I don't have a date. Maybe my date took one look at me and said he'd rather die than be caught in public with me. And maybe he's right. Maybe I do look awful. But think about this. I still look better than either one of you.

And she smiles at the end. I have a teeny, tiny, teeny thing to say about this guy. Please. So the guy who played the waiter. Oh, yeah. He also played the waiter in A Little Romance, Patrick, your favorite episode. Oh, right. And he returns once more in 72 Hours as Rose's doctor. That's season five, episode 19. Oh, wow. Yeah. He's an actor and a performing arts professor at Long Beach City College. Yeah. I looked up his TV. He was on a TV show that only ran for one season called Doctor, Doctor, where he played the

brother of the main character and he played a gay doctor. Oh. And it was like 1989 and his character was like fully out and they had like a good friendship. They lived together, the brothers. And I thought that was really cool. I love that he was on the, like they obviously loved him on this show because he was on the show three times. And he's like so cute. He's so dreamy. That's simple.

Nice dimples. I loved his hair. So the next thing of note is basically the host. Yes. You know, is like, here's the big moment we've been waiting for. Who's going to win this award, right? Yeah. She announces that Don Johnson of Miami Vice was supposed to be there, but now he can't make it. But the producers of the show were kind enough to set the clothes he was going to wear. That's right. I don't get the joke. Well, I do, I think, because they bring the clothes out on a hanger. And if you remember the episode with Blanche's niece and Ed the cop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The thing is. It's like that exact costume. It is. And the clothing.

from Miami Vice really was the I have written here the clothing from Miami Vice was like a third lead character of that show totally it really was like it was just everywhere it was so omnipresent in every is that a word omnipresent if it isn't I made it up okay great so that's why I think it's there it's just

It must have made sense in the time. Like, it was such a big show. That's the thing. I was older than you at the time. Yeah. And so this was my Friday night when I didn't go out on dates like Dorothy. When I was done reading a good book, I would watch Miami Vice on Friday nights. I love it. Now they're getting ready to announce the winner and Rose wants to wish them all good luck. And she looks through her day. What harm could it do? Because I'm going to win the award. Day two.

hate each other. They do. And it's like the trophy from the bowling tournament all over again. Right. They're telling each other, why don't you shut up? You shut up. Why don't you shut up? Three times. There you go. You did it. And here we go. And Rose is getting ready. Yes. As the host says. And now for the moment that you've all been waiting for. Yes. The winner of the Best Friend of the Year Award is Miss Sophia Petrillo. Now, Dot does not skip a beat. Dot wails. Oh!

True joy, but also a vicarious win for her. 100%. And she's just thrilled that neither one of those two assholes won. You know what I mean? And we love Sophia here because she goes back to Raul for like a second time. You know, she gives a great speech. And this, once again, is kind of the heart of the show. I'm a very lucky woman. Not only do I have a lot of friends in this community, but I have a lot of good friends at home.

Friends who care about me and care about each other. I count my blessings every day because I have the kind of friends who stand by you through the bad and the good. When you're lucky enough to find that kind of friendship, I guess you just want to pass it on.

When she starts talking about the friendship, you know, they come around and start to feel guilty for what assholes they've been, basically. So that part's lovely. It's very sweet. And the girls silently make up at the table. They're holding hands. That's right. And then the speech turns to hilarity where she says, may I say a few words just to my friend 75 and over? Yeah. I'd like you to take a good look at your dates for this evening. Now take a look at mine. Stand up, Raul. The man is half my age. Isn't he gorgeous? Let's give us both a big hug.

a big hand. And I'm like, he's not that cute, actually, now that we're talking about it. Oh, I think he's cute. Whatever. So in the end, they all apart. Wait, you can like Stan, but I'm not allowed to think Relil is cute. I get a whatever. No, I'm getting so much shit in the Facebook group for thinking Stan's hot. I just thought it was hot in that one episode. All right. He showed a little vulnerability. That's all. I think me doth protest too much. Anyway.

So in the end, they all apologize and they're toasting their friends. No, they don't. Dot doesn't apologize. Is that right? I have a note here. It's so funny. Blanche says, girls, girls, I am so sorry. And I was impressed that Blanche was the first one to apologize. I am so sorry. Rose says, oh, so am I. And Dorothy says, let's make a toast to friendship. Like, wait a second.

skip over yourself that's so funny to be fair they were probably the meanest to her as usual as always as always they toast and then they sneeze into their champagne glasses right to friendship Patrick to friendship girl and you know what cheesecake thank you for being a friend by telling a friend about our podcast I'm getting so much shit for it oh my god

Well, Cheesecakes, don't go away. That's the end of our recap. But when we come back, Jen is going to do her deep dive on Alison Jones, the famous, famous casting director now who got her start on The Golden Girls in full transparency. She's already recorded it. And I got to tell you, it's really funny and it's really good. You got to hear it. And I love, I have to say, and I'm not sucking up. My career is doing just fine. But I do love talking about people whose work I respect. And I respect this woman's value behind her cast. Her values behind her casting. And that's all I'm going to say about that. Okay, I love it.

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All right, Cheesecakes Patrick. I'm so excited about today's deep dive that I'm doing. This was a suggestion from my friend Mike Jensen, who like saw the name and was like, oh my God, you guys should do a deep dive on Alison Jones. I'm so excited. Yes. So let's do it. Let's just get right in. Let's go. So first of all, I love doing a fellow woman. Yes. I mean, not doing. You know what I mean? Jen just came out. You heard it here first. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Some of my best friends do women. Do you know the fact I'd like to try?

try that sometime. Anyway, but you're going to have plenty of suitors. Okay. Also, let me just say, I love Patrick that we've been doing, we've been doing a lot of people from Massachusetts. Oh, is she from, she's a mass hole? She's a mass hole. So Allison was born and raised in Needham, Massachusetts.

Oh, yeah. All right. She's one of six children. Whoa. Her father was an executive at John Hancock. Oh, yeah. And let me just tell you, the John Hancock Tower, tallest building in Boston. Yep. I remember going on a field trip there when I was eight years old. Yeah. And there's a building right next to it with like this little like antenna on top of it. And my brother, who is a local, tells me that the locals call those two buildings, they call it Big Cock and the one next to it Little Cock. Yeah.

cock, little cock. Oh, Boston. Oh, Boston. It's funny because Boston doesn't have like a massive skyline. It just kind of has those buildings. Big cock and little cock. Anyway. And the Prudential Center. And the Prue. So some little funny info about the father. Apparently he loved Walter Matthau, yet hated John F. Kennedy. Oh my God.

I just found that to be a really interesting factoid that that was written in a sentence in my research. I was like, you know what? If you're from Massachusetts, you're allowed to hate John F. Kennedy. All right. I didn't know. You know, I'm guessing he voted for the other team. But anyway, I'm thinking he was a Nixon lover. Anyway, apparently, and this is another sentence I love, her mother managed the kids. So it sounds like a very quote unquote traditionalist.

traditional household. So growing up, Allison watched as her parents and her older siblings battled over the Vietnam War and long hair. So yeah, I'm sure there was a lot of, you know. We can't all be raised by lesbians like me, I guess. She was the fifth of six kids, and she's quoted as saying, I didn't want to make any adult pissed off. I'm still terrified of fucking up because the business is a little bit of that same mentality. Who do you blame for something that's a failure? Question mark.

gotta blame casting. Yeah. It's funny. I relate to that. I was one of those kids. I'm still like this. I live in fear of getting yelled at. Oh, yeah. When I would be in like class and the kids would be talking out of turn, I was like, stop it. The teacher's gonna yell. Stop it. I'd say that's most kids, you know, the fearing authority. Not my daughter. Oh, yeah. My kid. Oh, yeah. She has not yet met an authority that she is not afraid of. I don't know. Maybe it's a Gen X thing. Maybe we're all just terrified. Hey, latchkey kid, go home and be alone some more. Exactly.

You know why you're alone? Because nobody loves you. Because it's something you did. It's something you did. Anyway. That's exactly right. Now, I related to her in this regard. She spent more time following hockey than movies. Not really related, because I love movies just as much as hockey. That's a Massachusetts thing, too. That's the thing. I'm from New England. So every Saturday morning, I was in a hockey rink watching my brothers play. Totally. That's a big New England thing. Just little facts about her. She loved Peter Sellers.

She loved The Three Stooges. And as a writer later in life, she was so stoked that her office was a stone's throw from where The Three Stooges used to make their films. No way. Isn't that cool? Oh, that is cool. So she credits her brothers with shaping her comedic tastes. All right, you're going to love this. One brother and his friends made up stories called Christmas tragedies for which they invented and recited straight-faced accounts of misery. Ha ha ha!

She fondly recalled a bit in which a plane full of pregnant nuns crashed into an orphanage. She said, Merry Christmas. But these brothers are like Christmas tragedy. That's really funny. Can we have a holiday party and just all make up a Christmas tragedy? That is really great. That's really funny. God, that's funny. That is funny. She enjoyed watching a real but weird local program. I know you must know it.

And if you don't, you're going to love that I do. Uh-huh. Called Community Auditions. No, I don't know this. Oh, it was ahead of your time. Okay. Is that like a Massachusetts thing? Oh, yeah. New England thing. Yeah. Okay. It was hosted by this fabulous guy named Dave Maynard. He had a radio show. And actually, I got my turkey recipe from Dave Maynard. You did? Oh, sure. But it was a low-budget...

precursor to American Idol, that kind of thing. It was amateurs would sing and perform and they were sometimes backed up by an orchestra. I remember my friend Sarah Silverman was on it. No way. Like the Sarah Silverman? Oh my God. I told you guys, we're friends. We grew up together. Anyway, and it was either Ben Affleck or Matt Damon was on it, I think. But anyway, I remember the theme song, which I'm going to sing for you. Oh. Oh yeah. Star of the day.

Who will it be? Your vote may hold the key. It's up to you. So tell me true. Oh, my God. You'll be star of the day. My cheeks hurt from the laughing I've done. Pregnant nuns crashing into an orphanage.

Star of the day. Oh, God. All right. So Allison eventually moved to California to attend Pomona College, but she didn't have her sights set on like Hollywood and the biz. OK, she said that she came to California because it seemed like the coolest place in the world. That growing up in the 60s, she'd watch Gidget with Sally Field and, you know, to see her surfing after school that Jones would laugh saying, I have to shovel the rink and here she is surfing.

It blew her mind. Yeah. Yeah. I know my way around a shovel. Shoveling snow. I used to shovel people's driveways and their walkways for like $2 on snow days. Oh, yeah. I used to pray for snow days so I would have enough money to like go to Friendly's. Exactly. Oh, Friendly's. Friendly's. I love a Friendly's.

She says she remembered watching the Rockford Files as a kid and seeing the Hollywood sign in the opening credits. Oh, yeah. And she never would have imagined she'd be working in show business because as a kid, she never had a concept you could actually work in it that she really didn't have a clue. Oh, yeah. So Pomona

was a huge influence on her comedy taste. She came to admire what she called pure geek existence. New friends introduced her to Monty Python and Fireside Theater comedy albums, and together they would watch Saturday Night Live make its debut. I mean, can you imagine being there when that first opened? I can't imagine. Just groundbreaking. So after graduating from Pomona, despite her interest in comedy, she went to business school, got her MBA, and then she got a job in advertising.

in NYC. She worked at a firm on the Stroh's beer account and she kind of really endured that. It really wasn't a fit for her. I was just thinking about how my first job in New York was a news associate at CNBC. A news associate meaning I was the

assistant to the production team of Financial News. Yeah. Not at 30 Rock, but out in Fort Lee, New Jersey. I know it well because I don't know if you were there when I was, this was like in 1994, I was doing some work for a guy who was charged with, there was like a Saturday morning show on CNBC and we would do like skits and stuff. Oh, wow. Yeah, on this show. Oh, that's

It's so funny. So after the Strobeer account advertising fiasco, she returned to Los Angeles and she enrolled at the American Film Institute. You've heard of AFI. So after AFI, she ended up getting a gig working for, drumroll, casting director Judith Wiener, who we know as the Golden Girls casting director. So at the time, you know, how could Allison know what a big break this was, right? Now, the first show she worked on with Judith was...

was Benson and Family Ties. Allison was also a casting assistant on The Golden Girls and claims that those were some of her best memories. Wow. Eventually, her Golden Girls credits, what I could find, she cast 18 episodes and she was an associate on six episodes. Wow. She spent a lot of her early career doing legwork to find stand-up comedians and tried to bring them onto sitcoms.

She also, and I love this, she championed unknown actors. She was more about that than like lists of names and stuff like that. In the early 90s, she found steady work as a casting director for shows that you probably know, Boy Meets World, Friends.

Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. And she went on to cast what became a huge hit, Freaks and Geeks. Oh, yeah. Additional credits include Superbad, Knocked Up, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, Get Him to the Greek, and This is 40. And then, drumroll, she went on to cast The Office. Oh. Yeah. So it's been said that if Nina Gold is the queen of drama casting, then Alison Jones is the unrivaled empress of comedy. Wow.

Wow. With three Emmy wins and 12 nominations, including one for Outstanding Casting for a Comedy Series for her work Curb Your Enthusiasm in 2020. Amazing. And finally, of the many things that contribute to her legacy, there is something she's known for that I just love. A rule of hers is looks don't matter. Being funny is everything to me, she's quoted as saying. She says being funny and original. Yeah. She's also said that networks want women to be beautiful.

And if they have to fake the comedy, so be it, Jones says. So many people make a career out of being fake funny. And that's just not right when there are so many truly gifted women out there who understand comedy. Isn't that great? That's incredible, Allison Jones. Yeah. So, Allison, you can come see me in Death Becomes Her. Yes. Yes.

You have a standing invitation. You have a standing invitation. We will celebrate you. And we'll do the Christmas scaries or whatever you call them. Oh, my God. Could we? Wouldn't that be incredible? Could we please do a Christmas tragedy with Alison Jones, please? Wouldn't that be amazing? We've got to try to book her cheesecakes. Anybody know Alison Jones? We've got to get her for an interview. Her brothers make one up on the spot. I just love what appears to be her value system behind casting. Yes. Yes.

Well, thank you for the deep dive, Cheesecakes. Thank you for your ears. Hey, thanks for being a friend by telling a friend about our podcast. Know that you know somebody that you think would love to listen to the Golden Girls Deep Dive podcast. Tell them about it. And while you're at it, make sure you're subscribed. Go to the plus button on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen. Make sure that you are subscribed. Join our Facebook group. What's it called, girl? It's called the Golden Girls Deep Dive Podcast Discussion.

and grow. You nailed it. And then if you have a suggestion of a deep dive or a whatnot of any kind, write us. Or a whatnot. Or a whatnot, some such. The Golden Girls Whatnot Podcast. I want you to write us. Patrick does too. Yes. At info at goldengirlsdeepdive.com. Yes. And Steve Tipton will sort through and see it and send it our way. Send it our way. All right. We love you, Cheesecake. Love you so much. Thanks. Thanks for hanging out. Bye. Bye. Bye.