2 - The Man Who Knew Too Much
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We offer flexible schedules, scholarships, and tuition plans to help you reach your educational goals online. Penn State World Campus delivers on your time. Click the ad or visit worldcampus.psu.edu to learn more. The Mojave Desert was beginning to bask and bloom in the late winter sun.

just beyond the sand in the city of Palmdale. The grass was greening out of the cypress trees at Desert Lawn Memorial Park, where Michelle O'Keeffe had been laid to rest. The inscription on her stone? Cheerful, loving sister and daughter. At her funeral, with his mother's hand on his shoulder, 12-year-old Jason made his sister a promise. I will love you forever, and I'll see you in heaven when it's my time to go. Love, your brother Jason."

It is very hard. Michelle's father, Mike O'Keefe. And, you know, it's one of those questions you have to ask. You know, you say, do you want to stand in front of God and Jesus? You know, why ask? Impossible not to ask. Impossible to answer. But there was a second question, too. A question that would not leave him alone, that tormented his every waking moment. Who did this thing? Mike O'Keefe would do anything to find out and get justice for his daughter. Anything. Anything.

In this episode, you'll see how far a family will go to get answers. He's very large-billed, but his name is Lee or Leon. You'll hear from a brand new witness who turned the narrative on its head. She heard a tapping sound, which we've determined was probably the gunshots.

And you'll hear what happens when a larger-than-life attorney seems to go to suspect to lose control. You're doing a very good job of irritating me and getting underneath my skin. I'm trying to stay nice and calm because I know what you want me to do is blow up in front of this camera so you can take it and use it against me. Why don't you keep your smirk off your face? I know I will not. I'm Keith Morrison, and this is The Girl in the Blue Mustang, a podcast from Dateline. Episode 2, The Man Who Knew Too Much.

About the central facts, there was no doubt. Michelle O'Keefe was hit with some blunt object and then shot to death while sitting in the driver's seat of her brand new Mustang in a park-and-ride north of Los Angeles. As for the rest, there just wasn't much to go on. Except, Detective Richard Longshore was getting a familiar feeling in his gut about that one talkative witness of his, the night security guard, Raymond Jennings.

Jennings had told Longshore he heard shots fired, saw muzzle flashes, but couldn't see the shooter. And yet... When we interviewed Mr. Jennings, he said that he saw a projectile laying on the pavement and that he speculated that that projectile was there because the shooter accidentally shot into the ground as he approached Michelle. It took us hours.

to determine that's what occurred. And yet he had it as a cold observer with no, you know, first-hand information in a matter of minutes. Just shouldn't know that. He shouldn't have. He knew, for example, about the sequence or he opined the sequence of the shots that the shots, the first shot was point blank into her chest.

That's exactly what it was. As determined by the autopsy. Right. And we don't make those determinations before you go to an autopsy. And for a layperson to come up with that, it just defied logic. Three days after the murder, Jennings quit his night security job, said he couldn't feel comfortable around there anymore. So he drove over to All Valley Security at a strip mall on Palmdale Boulevard to turn in his uniform.

And of course, Detective Longshore found out. And a few days later, detectives retrieved the nylon security jacket and the beige short-sleeved shirt and the dark pants that Jennings wore that night in the park and ride. Happily, the clothes had not been washed. Could be a DNA goldmine. So they took the dirty uniform to the crime lab, where the techs ran tests for blood and gunshot residue and so on. And negative evidence.

Lots of Raymond Jennings' DNA, but nothing that could pin him to a shooting in a parking lot. No blood, no gunshot residue. Zip. Which tended to back up Jennings' story that he was nowhere near the shooting. But this wasn't Longshore's first rodeo. Far from it. And he couldn't stop thinking something just didn't quite add up. So Longshore called Jennings in again and again and talked to him for hours.

And the guy remained as polite as could be, like he was trying hard to help. But that wasn't necessarily a sign of innocence, said Longshore. I've seen, talked to a lot of killers that have just killed someone and they're not what you might expect. I can think of, you know, three or four scenarios just off the top of my head where someone can kill another person and leave no evidence behind whatsoever. That person needs to be apprehended and brought to justice and let a jury take a crack at him.

can often seem like nice people absolutely uh i you know i there are some killers that i've spoken to that i actually kind of like you can't condone what they've done but they're likable people didn't make longshore any less determined anyway there was more to do there was that best friend jennifer peterson last person to see michelle before whatever happened

At first, she couldn't even talk, too distraught. So Longshore suggested, gently, that they could just go have a look at the crime scene together, see if anything occurred to her there. As they got out of Detective Longshore's car, they could hear the steady hum of thousands of commuters as stones throw away on Highway 14 connecting Palmdale to L.A. And as we...

Got to the portion of the parking lot where Michelle's car had rolled from, striking the planter. I said, okay, and this is where Michelle's car was. She said, well, no, it wasn't. I said, are you sure? And she said, yeah, we parked it under a light, deliberately, because she was concerned about her vehicle's safety. Well, that certainly got his attention. The safe, brightly lit parking space Jennifer pointed out

was 17 spaces away from the place first responders found Michelle's car with her body inside. So why did she move? Why to a darker place, exactly where she didn't want to park her car? Maybe she went somewhere more discreet to change out of the miniskirt she wore to the chute and back into her more modest jeans for class? Maybe they found the jeans on the passenger seat next to her body.

So, of course, investigators confronted Jennings with that discovery. And they drew a blank. Jennings went on insisting the Mustang had never moved, that it was exactly where he first saw it 20 minutes before Michelle and Jennifer got back from L.A. So was he lying or just mistaken? Puzzle, that. Anyway, the Jennings quandary was not Longshore's only lead. Meth had raised its ugly head out in the Antelope Valley.

Gangs had come right along with it. They all knew about the murder. Everybody had at least one opinion, sometimes more. We had people confessing to it. Youngsters, teenagers, early 20s up in the Antelope Valley who were involved in the drug trafficking. Well, okay, she was killed because she owed money to a dope dealer. Of course, he checked that out, but no way Michelle used drugs.

But he did learn from the gang enforcement team that gang members had been making trouble in the park and ride, stealing hubcaps, rims, anything they could get their hands on for quite a while. Oh, and the confessing? Well, that was not to Longshore, and it wasn't really confessing. More like taking credit for Michelle's murder so they could use it for a shakedown.

I killed Michelle, and if you don't put out it, then I'll kill you too. Why did they do that? God knows. Jennings wasn't any help in that department. Gangs? He said he didn't see any of that in the park and ride before or after the murder. Nobody at all, for that matter. Nobody else in the parking lot. As far as he was telling us, right? Nobody came and went. That's correct. So, not a gang.

Anyway, why would gangbangers attack and kill a sweet church-going kid who had no connection to them whatsoever? Then a tip. Sheriff's investigators were notified a 17-year-old juvenile who'd been taken into custody on another charge claimed she had information about the Palmdale murder. Her name was Victoria Richardson.

She said she was in her car with three other people that night, listening to music near the northwest corner of the parking lot. And they'd been smoking marijuana. She heard a tapping sound, which we've determined was probably the gunshots. She saw another car just drive by, a random car in the parking lot. And she saw the security guard walk by just moments before the shooting, as he made his patrol.

And she decided to leave. And when they left the parking lot, went right through the crime scene and ended up stopping and talking to Mr. Jennings and saying, "Wait, what happened?" And he goes, "You're shooting?" He goes, "I don't know." And, "Where's that effect?" And he never told us that initially. This is within a few minutes of the shooting? Yes. And yet he told you he didn't see anybody? That's correct.

Strange, especially given Jennings' willingness to help and his remarkable memory that he would somehow forget this crucial encounter. So that sets off some kind of alarm in your head. It did. And we went back and spoke to him at his residence and again asked him to tell us everything that occurred. And he stuck to that story. And that's when he confirmed that there had been yet a second vehicle or another vehicle had spoken to him, you know, Victoria Richardson. Oh, yeah, that's right. I remember seeing that now. And

It just started to ring off some alarm bells. Detective Longshore wondered what else Jennings had not remembered, but nothing could have prepared him for this from the talkative Mr. Jennings. I've been thinking, why haven't they come after me yet? Or why would you think that he didn't do anything? Well, just, I mean, we were in contact, yeah. Where did I put myself in your shoes? And he wasn't exactly wrong.

But it was infuriating. No murder weapon, no eyewitness to contradict the talkative guard. Longshore didn't have the evidence to go after Jennings, and he certainly couldn't go public with his detective hunches. It doesn't work that way. But maybe he didn't have to. The rumors about Jennings were getting around, but also soon offers of a speedier kind of justice.

That's Pat O'Keefe, desperate to find her daughter's killer. She recorded a public service announcement for local TV

Husband Mike standing solemnly behind her, hand on a shoulder. On the night of February 22nd, our daughter Michelle was murdered at the park and ride lot in Palmdale on Avenue S and the 14 freeway. By no means all they did. As spring turned to summer, Michelle's 14-foot-high smiling face began to appear on billboards in the high desert. Among thousand-year-old Joshua trees, the billboards read,

I wasn't ready to die at 18. Can you help catch my killer? But six months after Michelle was murdered, as the desert soared past 100 degrees in the shade, the case of the girl in the blue Mustang went cold. No chargeable suspect, no new clues, no solid leads. Then, on October 11th, 2000,

At chilly autumn day on what should have been Michelle's 19th birthday, the O'Keeffe's were clear across the country in New York City on the Montel Williams show. Please welcome Mike and Pat to the show. They put the O'Keeffe's in the audience under a spotlight there to bare their souls on national TV. Pat looked down self-consciously as her husband Mike began. About eight months ago, our daughter was murdered in a park and ride.

A stunning black and white photo of Michelle filled the TV screen. The camera zoomed into her smiling face. What we'd like to know is, the police haven't got a name yet or anything. Do you know who killed her? Seated up front on the studio's main set, Montel and a psychic named Sylvia Brown leaned forward, clasping their hands as if they wanted to bring Pat and Mike closer. Sylvia began describing Michelle's killer.

in a vision that had just come to her. He's very large build, but his name is Lee or Leon. Lee, as in six foot two inch security guard, Raymond Lee Jennings? He had on some kind of a blue uniform with a pocket and a badge thing. A minute later, the segment was over, though to the O'Keefe's it seemed as if it had barely begun.

They could easily have filled the entire hour with their hopes and mostly their fears. Pat and Mike told me it wasn't satisfying, but at least it was something. Why did you go on these shows, Montel Williams, America's Most Wanted? What was, what drove you to do that? I think maybe just if anybody knew anything that just to get the word out, because we still didn't have an arrest when we went on all those shows.

So I think maybe just to see if we could get any information from anybody. The importance of figuring out what happened, who did it, and why seems to loom very large in people's life. Yeah. Can you tell me about that? You know, you don't... I never thought about it until it happened to me, but it almost like...

There was this constant little voice saying, "You've got to get this thing solved. You've got to get this thing solved." For your daughter? Yes. It's like, this is what you need to do for her. You've got to do this. You want to close her in, and when you don't, it gets frustrating. And it eats at you. You've got to get this thing solved. The Montel Show definitely had one immediate impact, and that was on Ray Jennings. He'd gotten a new job as a salesman at a Toyota car dealership in Lancaster,

And there were the O'Keefe's and the psychic on TV. Jennings is watching that at the dealership he was working at after he left the security guard company. And all of a sudden his pager goes into meltdown. And he was saying, oh God, they're going to pin this on me. I got to go home. They're going to pin this on me. And he left. Unless he could talk them out of it.

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Murder is like a wrecking ball in a family. All in pieces. No one's the same after. Pat and Mike O'Keefe were holding on for dear life by the time they took their case to TV shows and psychics for all the good it did. But give up? Not a chance. Otherwise, it would eat them alive. And so back home in Palmdale, Pat and Mike decided that the standard way of criminal justice just wasn't going to be enough for them. What made it important?

to pursue this beyond the normal course of action, which is to kind of bug the police and hope for some sort of resolution. You know, it just didn't seem like that was doing anything. Sheriff's Department were on it. Longshore's a competent detective, but it seems like the caseload is so huge. Time passes. I wouldn't say level of interest, because I think he was always interested in it, but the level...

of priority just didn't seem to be there and then only goes on so long you know until you finally say gee you know enough's enough we got to do something and then through that uh through counselor we were referred to to Rex that would be our Rex Paris big time civil attorney local legend powerful man I was suggested by a friend that that uh you know

Rex might be a good person to go talk to on this. So we made an appointment and, by gosh, we went in and talked to him. Hoping he could do what? Pull some strings? Try to help us sort this thing out or see if he had any ideas. And so he thought about it for a little bit and he agreed. He goes, yeah, I think through the civil...

civil process, we can get you some answers." Paris had deep pockets and a reputation for hardball tactics and multi-million dollar settlements. And he told the O'Keeffes he was the man to help them get justice for Michel. I met Mr. Paris in 2009 at his sprawling Lancaster office. He'd redone what had been a furniture megastore. Above the main entrance, four-foot-high letters spelled out his name.

Inside, everything big and sleek. There was the Eternal Fountain. And over there, a room holding boxes of evidence for his army of attorneys. With our Rex Parris in their corner, before the year was out, the O'Keefe's filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the city of Palmdale for the lack of security cameras and against the private All Valley Security Company hired to patrol the Park and Ride lot. The O'Keefe's told me there was no going back now.

You know, we had mixed emotions. You know, how are people going to perceive us, you know, doing this civil action? However, you know, the more important thing was to get this thing solved. And so... That was your motivation. Right. Absolutely. But you were afraid that people would think that you were greedy or something? Some people thought we just wanted to get money for Michelle's murder. But Paris was into the investigation now, like a detective on steroids. And unlike the police, he kept in constant touch with the O'Keefe's.

They were totally involved in everything I did. You know, I would talk to Michael Keefe and I'd talk to Pat. It was interesting when you'd call them, whichever one you called, the other one would get on the phone. You know, I've never had a case where they were so involved in it, you know, and wanting to know every single detail. What did Rex say that he could do for you? He just said he could get some information. He thought he could do some depositions. He would get an investigator on it as it

Turned out he got a top-notch investigator on him. That's not cheap. No, it's not cheap. Oh, it was very expensive. Very expensive, so... A lot of the money that we got from the lawsuit, we had to pay... And plowed back into that place. Oh, yeah. So, I mean, it wasn't... Now, Rex, you know, he set up an account and everything, but everything we paid. And I went off and, you know, had a lot of personal expense on the thing, you know. Sure. Oh, they were all in now.

Another spring had come to the high desert, temperatures climbed into the 80s, clumps of sage bloomed around the park and ride, and the O'Keeffe's turned up the heat a little more. They added Raymond Jennings to their wrongful death lawsuit, and R. Rex Parris himself would conduct the deposition. Parris came fully prepared.

He had carefully studied all of Detective Longshore's interviews with Jennings. He'd gotten to know Jennings' mannerisms, his way of talking. Charming guy could disarm a perfect stranger, even a suspicious detective.

Paris had already invested a considerable sum of money in the O'Keeffe investigation. And perhaps to add some pressure on the DA, he invited a special guest, a reporter from the Antelope Valley Press. The local newspaper was there while you deposed this man? Yes. How common is that? Well, usually doesn't happen. Something else that usually doesn't happen?

When Jennings arrived at the big office with the four-foot letters spelling Paris's name, he came alone. He did not bring a lawyer. Didn't have one. So how did you go about this? The first process is to make him comfortable and have what you and I are doing. You engage him in a discussion. But then you also then want to break that, that rapport you develop, and see how he is when he's angry. And so I would do that. Mr. Jennings.

Do you remember the night Michelle O'Keefe was killed? I do. Jennings settled himself in the big mauve-colored conference room. They'd put him in a high-backed boardroom chair with a potted plant behind him. A few feet away, Michelle's parents, Pat and Mike O'Keefe, stared intently. They had been cautioned some of the testimony would be graphic, and all of it was being videotaped by a camera crew. You murdered Michelle O'Keefe.

No, I did not murder Michelle O'Keefe. I had no contact with Michelle O'Keefe. I'd never seen Michelle O'Keefe. Jennings just swatted that one away. But then Paris brought up that polygraph, the one Jennings had submitted to before his cognitive interview. Why'd you pluck the lie detector test then? I have no idea why I felt it.

I don't even know if a true lighted detector test was admitted to him. I have no idea. And so it went on for hours. Paris probing, deconstructing, trying to unravel Jennings' story. I'm not your scapegoat. The real killer is out there someplace.

And I'm not the one. The lawyer might have advised Jennings not to rise to the bait, not to say the things he said. But of course, he didn't have a lawyer. You're being a smartass and you'll be a smartass back to you. Jennings seemed brash, even cocky. You ask a crazy question, I give you a crazy answer.

In many respects, it was an unfair advantage because he didn't have an attorney. And I was able to go on for hours and hours and hours, you know, back looping him and backtracking and putting him in different spots. You're doing a very good job. I don't want you to irritate me and you're getting underneath my skin. I'm trying to stay nice and calm because I know what you want me to do is blow up in front of this camera so you can take it and use it against me. It's not going to happen, my friend. Okay? He had nothing to gain.

You know, he had already filed for bankruptcy or was going to file for bankruptcy. There was no reason for him to engage in this deposition other than he was enjoying it. We're going to take a short break while we change teams. Mr. Jennings, I want you to do something really novel here today.

I want you to tell us the absolute truth. That's what I'm doing for you, Mr. Ferris. And I'd like you to remember that we are talking about the death of an 18-year-old girl, and that smirk on your face makes me very angry. You don't have to remind me. I'm sorry it makes you angry, okay? Why don't you keep your smirk off your face? No, I will not. My facial experiences are going to stay like they are. Ask your questions. Let's get this over with so I can go. I'm not happy. I'm not happy somebody's dead. But he was glib. Incredibly glib.

And I remember at one point during the deposition thinking, you know, I could walk into that courtroom and he could win without a lawyer. He's a car salesman, you know, he was a good car salesman. I pray every day, I say, if they're going to come and arrest me and charge me for this crime, I'm going to do it. And that's precisely what the investigator hired by Paris for the O'Keeffe's was trying his level best to make happen. And we met with him one night out at the parking lot.

And Pat asked him, "How sure are you that he did this, Raymond Leigh Jennings?" And he looked her in the eye and he says, "I am 100% certain Raymond Leigh Jennings killed your daughter." At Amica Insurance, we know it's more than a life policy. It's about the promise and the responsibility that comes with being a new parent. Being there day and night and building a plan for tomorrow, today, for the ones you'll always look out for.

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That's 50% off at filtereasy.com slash podcast. It's hardly uncommon to encounter tension in law office conference rooms. Anxiety, suppressed rage. But surely few such encounters could rival the barely contained fury in the air at the office of R. Rex Paris. There's a reason our conference room table is so wide that you can't be reached. Because depositions can be volatile things. Sure.

So I had security there. Things got very personal, very fast, said Mr. Parris. He was able to get between them and me and get his hands around my neck and do it in a fashion. He came up behind me, I'm sitting at the table, and he sticks his hand on my neck and apologizes for getting angry earlier.

But he was, you know, clearly telling me, I can get to you. It was an interesting experience. Parris thought Jennings was on the edge, about to crack. One gentle push and he might confess. Did it work? It seemed to.

Once Jennings calmed down, they resumed a more civil conversation. And that's when Paris got, well, not a confession, but as that reporter listened and took notes, Paris got something he could use. You could see clearly her neck and it looked as if there was still a slight pulse. So you have a very clear recollection of seeing a slight pulse in her neck? To my memory, I honestly do. I honestly do.

I'd like you to visualize that scene and tell me, can you actually, did you actually see her fingers twitching? I'm just going to go by what I remember that night and I'm just going to answer yes. It's like he was telling the story as if he was standing there but saying he was over here at his car. But he knew things he could only know if it was at the murder scene. That's correct. In other words, he knew too much. Way too much.

Way too much. Then, as the deposition drew toward a close, Jennings told Parris that his former National Guard sergeant had been in touch with him, and the sergeant didn't like what he was hearing. His exact words were, Jennings, what the f*** is going on? He said, I just had people leave here, and they wanted to see pretty much everything that you've ever done here, and what kind of records you had, and so forth. There's a lawyer out here who's actually got a wild hair up his ass for me, and he's actually kind of pinned this murder on me.

And I guess he's going to go through the extreme to see that I'm put away for it. My exact words to him. And who is this lawyer with the wild hair up his ass that wants to pin this murder on you? That would be me, Mr. Peck. That would be me. I don't know what I've done to you in my previous life, but you seem to have a little hair up there for me. So I don't know why, but it's affected my family and it's affected me just by the reports that have been in the papers. Well, sure enough...

All that became a lead story in the Antelope Valley Press the very next day, written by that reporter, the one Paris invited to the deposition. I remember on the front page of one of the newspapers, there was a caption underneath Jennings, and it was lies, lies, and lies. And so things started to heat up.

After that, Mike and Pat O'Keefe were 100% sure Jennings was the man who murdered their daughter. Crazy thing was, he lived just a mile away from them in Palmdale. And he would just come in and buy milk or diapers or whatever because he had four or five kids. So I would see him at the grocery store a couple times. Paris settled the civil lawsuit against Palmdale and the family received a substantial payment and the claims against Jennings and All Valley Security were dropped.

But maybe the deposition had accomplished exactly what Rex Parris set out to do. Detective Longshore certainly thought so. Based on what Jennings said in that deposition, Longshore wrote up a case and submitted it to L.A. County Deputy District Attorney Robert Fultz. I was convinced this guy did it. Who took a good look and declined. No prosecution. But I saw that there were some serious problems with

the physical evidence in the case. Just wasn't any. Right. And so I thought, well, let's wait on this one. We've got other ones more urgent at this point. The O'Keeffe's were crushed, but not beaten. No way. As long as there's breath in my lungs, we aren't going to give up until this thing's resolved. But they were running out of options. R. Rex Parris, Detective Longshore, they'd done all they could do.

And then a new sheriff came to town, make that a retired sheriff's deputy, named Jim Jeffra. One day in the dead of winter, he reached out and touched the six-foot-high polished wooden cross the O'Keeffe's had erected at the park and ride in Michelle's memory. I said, you know, Michelle, you're going to have to help me here. I'm going to need some help. I may call upon you. Who knows? Maybe she was listening.

Next, on The Girl in the Blue Mustang. Sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can maybe spot something that looks a little different. It seemed like it had bogged down and it had bogged down around one person, and that was Raymond Lee Jennings. I was going to do what I could do to prove that he didn't kill this girl. And if we could get past that, then we could move forward and go after the person that did kill her.

The Girl in the Blue Mustang is a production of Dateline and NBC News. Scott Fraser is the producer. Brian Drew, David Varga, and John Koster are audio editors. Thomas Kemmen is assistant audio editor. Kiani Reid is associate producer. Adam Gorfain is co-executive producer. Liz Cole is executive producer. And David Corvo is senior executive producer.

From NBC News Audio, Bryson Barnes as technical director, sound mixing by Bob Mallory, Nina Bisbano as associate producer. At Amica Insurance, we know it's more than just a car. It's the two-door coupe that was there for your first drive, the hatchback that took you cross-country and back, and the minivan that tackles the weekly carpool. For the cars you couldn't live without,

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