cover of episode Trump Kicks Down the Guardrails

Trump Kicks Down the Guardrails

2024/11/19
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The Ezra Klein Show

Key Insights

Why is Donald Trump appointing loyalists like Matt Gaetz and Tulsi Gabbard to key positions?

Trump is placing loyalists in critical roles like the military, intelligence services, and Department of Justice to ensure these agencies align with his personal agenda, including retribution against perceived enemies.

How does Elon Musk's role in Trump's administration signal a shift in American politics?

Musk's involvement, as a billionaire with significant business interests, blurs the lines between private enterprise and government policy, reminiscent of oligarchic practices seen in non-democratic regimes.

What historical parallels can be drawn between Trump's administration and past authoritarian regimes?

Trump's reliance on loyalists and his efforts to control key institutions mirror tactics used by authoritarian leaders to consolidate power, degrade institutional quality, and use government agencies for personal or political gain.

Why might the appointments of inexperienced individuals like Pete Hegseth be concerning?

Appointing inexperienced individuals can be a tactic to ensure unwavering loyalty, as they are less likely to challenge the leader and more likely to be reliant on them for political survival.

How does Trump's rhetoric and actions affect public perception of institutions?

Trump's consistent attacks on institutions like the media and the deep state erode public trust, making these entities appear partisan and less credible, thereby weakening their effectiveness and legitimacy.

What role does social media play in the current political landscape, particularly under Trump?

Social media platforms, under figures like Elon Musk, have become tools for shaping narratives and influencing elections, blurring the line between platform and publisher and potentially affecting global politics.

How does the exhaustion among Trump's opponents compare to the energy among his supporters?

Trump's opponents appear fatigued and divided, lacking a unified strategy, while his supporters remain energized and organized, potentially giving the administration an advantage in maintaining and expanding its influence.

What indicators should be watched to gauge the health of American democracy under a Trump administration?

Key indicators include the leadership and purpose of government agencies, judicial appointments, foreign policy alignments, and signs of corruption or kleptocratic practices within the administration.

What can individuals do to counteract the potential slide towards authoritarianism?

Individuals can stay politically active by joining local groups, participating in civic activities, running for local office, and engaging in community efforts to maintain and strengthen democratic institutions.

Chapters

Ezra Klein reflects on the alarming nature of Trump's second term appointments, particularly those involving figures like Matt Gaetz and Tulsi Gabbard, signaling a potential slide into authoritarianism.
  • Trump's appointments of loyalists like Matt Gaetz and Tulsi Gabbard are seen as a move towards authoritarian control.
  • These appointments are in key areas like the military, intelligence services, and the Department of Justice, which can be weaponized dangerously.
  • The intention behind these appointments is to consolidate power and ensure loyalty to Trump.

Shownotes Transcript

I’ve been watching since the election to see what timeline we’re in. And Donald Trump’s first wave of selections for appointees were pretty straightforward. But then came the turn: Pete Hegseth, a former “Fox & Friends” host, to helm the Pentagon; Tulsi Gabbard for director of national intelligence; and the real gut-punch, the former representative Matt Gaetz for attorney general.

In the parts of government that can be weaponized most dangerously — the military, the intelligence services, the Department of Justice — Trump is putting true lackeys and loyalists in charge. I fear we’ve entered the bad timeline.

Anne Applebaum is a Pulitzer Prize-winning historian, a staff writer at The Atlantic, and the author of a new book, “Autocracy, Inc.: The Dictators Who Want to Run the World).” In this conversation, we discuss how she’s been processing Trump’s picks, what to make of Elon Musk’s role in Trump’s inner circle, the indicators to look out for when governments slide in an autocratic direction, the appeal and excitement of autocratic regimes that often get missed in our history books, the relationship between autocracies and futurists, the politics of performance and more.

Book Recommendations:

Moneyland) by Oliver Bullough

Offshore) by Brooke Harrington

American Kleptocracy) by Casey Michel

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio.

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