cover of episode The Economy Is at a Hinge Moment

The Economy Is at a Hinge Moment

2024/10/4
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The Ezra Klein Show

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Ezra Klein
一位深受欢迎的美国记者、政治分析师和《纽约时报》专栏作家,通过其《The Ezra Klein Show》podcast 探讨各种社会和政治问题。
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Jason Furman
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Ezra Klein:美国经济正经历转型,通货膨胀得到控制,但失业率上升,经济面临新的挑战,包括住房可负担性危机等长期问题。下一届政府需要应对新的经济挑战,而不是仅仅关注通货膨胀。 Jason Furman:美联储降息幅度应更小,因为通货膨胀已大幅下降,失业率大幅上升。尽管经济指标存在差异,但失业率持续上升是值得关注的风险。消费者支出强劲,企业投资高涨,房屋建筑业复苏,GDP增长强劲,这些都表明经济状况良好。美国经济领先于欧洲,主要原因是其强大的科技产业和相对较好的生产力增长。美联储应持续关注通货膨胀,但其他人不必过于担忧。 “暂时性通胀”论者低估了通货膨胀的严重性和持续性,但高估了降低通货膨胀的难度。通货膨胀下降的原因是:供应冲击减弱、劳动力市场宽松以及通胀预期保持稳定。与20世纪70年代不同,当前的通胀预期保持稳定,这使得降低通胀变得更容易。此次通胀危机最重要的教训是通胀预期的重要性。购房者不应预期抵押贷款利率会很快回到疫情前的水平。货币政策对房地产市场的影响过大,导致市场停滞。累进消费税可以作为一种调节需求的工具,但其政治可行性存疑。下一届政府应关注提高生产力、解决住房问题等长期性问题,并为应对未来的经济危机做好准备。美国不断增长的债务虽然目前不构成危机,但其不可持续性令人担忧。 特朗普的减税政策对经济增长的影响微乎其微,即将到期的个人减税政策对经济的影响尤其有限。分析减税政策时,需区分其对需求端和供给端的影响。如果经济强劲,让特朗普的减税政策到期不会对经济造成重大冲击。民主党过于担心因提高税收而被指责。特朗普减税政策中,个人所得税税率降低是主要成本来源,而结构性改革对经济的影响相对较小。民主党应利用特朗普减税政策到期之机,争取更有利的税收政策调整。优先考虑将儿童税收抵免完全返还,提高收入税收抵免,以及为新生儿提供税收抵免。在当前财政赤字的情况下,提高儿童税收抵免的成本过高。美国债务规模巨大,虽然目前不构成危机,但其不可持续性需要关注。关注实际债务服务水平,而非名义债务水平,以评估债务的可持续性。稳定美国财政状况所需的调整幅度约为GDP的2.5%。两党在财政问题上的立场分歧导致难以达成财政协议。关注长期国债利率,以评估财政状况的稳定性。 2008年金融危机后,住房建设数量下降,且未能完全恢复,这并非仅仅是由于分区和监管问题。旧金山无家可归问题并非由于住房短缺,而是由于住房可负担性问题。增加住房供应可以降低住房和租金成本。城市住房短缺问题是由于需求旺盛,而非单纯的住房数量不足。放松土地使用政策可以增加住房供应,促进经济增长,并减少寻租行为。哈里斯的住房政策总体上朝着正确的方向发展,但其效果还有待观察。购房者税收抵免政策可能适得其反,推高房价。税收抵免政策对低收入人群的帮助有限,不如直接发放现金补贴更有效。哈里斯的住房政策目标宏大,但政策力度不足,难以实现其目标。移民对住房市场的影响是复杂的,既增加了需求,也增加了供应。特朗普希望美联储降低利率,但这可能会导致长期利率上升,加剧住房问题。 Jason Furman: 美国经济目前状况良好,但需关注失业率上升的风险。美国经济领先欧洲主要由于科技产业优势和生产力增长。通货膨胀已得到控制,但美联储仍需保持警惕。应对通货膨胀的关键在于稳定通胀预期。购房者不应期待利率快速下降。政府应关注提高生产力、解决住房等长期性问题,并为应对未来危机做好准备。美国债务规模虽然目前未构成危机,但不可持续性令人担忧。特朗普减税政策对经济增长影响有限,即将到期的个人减税政策尤其如此。分析减税政策需区分其对需求端和供给端的影响。在经济强劲的情况下,让减税政策到期不会对经济造成重大冲击。民主党应谨慎处理税收问题,避免因提高税收而被指责。哈里斯的住房政策方向正确,但力度不足,难以实现其目标。移民对住房市场的影响复杂,既增加需求也增加供应。特朗普的低利率政策可能适得其反,加剧住房问题。关税政策通常弊大于利,只有在极少数情况下才值得考虑。特朗普的关税计划缺乏理论依据,且会对美国经济造成负面影响。民主党在贸易问题上的立场过于偏向特朗普的观点。拜登政府在贸易问题上的政策存在权衡取舍,其成本效益分析有待完善。自由主义者的经济学谬误在于否认政策的权衡取舍,而保守主义者的谬误在于夸大政策的成本。

Deep Dive

Chapters
The Federal Reserve's recent interest rate cut signals a shift in focus from inflation to unemployment. While some indicators suggest a strong economy, the rising unemployment rate raises concerns. The episode discusses the effectiveness of the Fed's response to the inflation crisis, including the debate between "Team Transitory" and those who predicted a more persistent problem.
  • The Fed recently cut interest rates by half a percentage point.
  • Inflation has decreased significantly, while unemployment has risen.
  • The labor market has loosened primarily due to a decrease in job openings, not a substantial rise in unemployment.
  • Well-anchored inflation expectations played a crucial role in bringing inflation down without drastic measures.

Shownotes Transcript

The economy has hit a hinge moment. For the past few years, inflation has been the big economic story — the fixation of economic policymakers, journalists and almost everyone who goes to the grocery store. But economists now largely see inflation as tamed. It’s still a major political issue; the country continues to reel from years of rising prices, and there is a real affordability crisis. But that isn’t all the next administration will have to deal with. So what does it mean to fight the next economic war rather than the last one?

Jason Furman is an economics professor at Harvard and a former chair of the Council of Economic Advisers under Barack Obama. Furman has closely tracked the inflation crisis over the past few years, and he’s deeply knowledgeable about how economic policy is made.

In this conversation, we discuss why the inflation crisis upended the expectations of so many economists and what we’ve learned for the next time inflation strikes, what he expects to see with mortgage rates and the housing market, the upcoming fight over Donald Trump’s expiring tax cuts, the good and the bad in Kamala Harris’s housing policy and why there seems to be so little concern from either party about the ever-growing U.S. debt.

Mentioned:

The Economic Theory Behind JD Vance’s Populism)” with Oren Cass on The Ezra Klein Show

Trump’s Most Misunderstood Policy Proposal)” by Oren Cass

In Defense of the Dismal Science)” by Jason Furman

Book Recommendations:

How the World Became Rich) by Mark Koyama and Jared Rubin

The Goodness Paradox) by Richard Wrangham

The Ladies’ Paradise) by Émile Zola

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast). Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs).

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones, Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Tyler Cowen, Veronique de Rugy, Desmond Lachman, Lindsay Owens, Nathan Tankus, Isabella Weber and Sonia Herrero.

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