cover of episode Maggie Haberman on What an Unleashed Trump Might Do

Maggie Haberman on What an Unleashed Trump Might Do

2024/10/25
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The Ezra Klein Show

Key Insights

Why does Trump behave in an uninhibited manner?

He has various reasons, but primarily he behaves without inhibition because that's how he operates.

How has Trump's ability to read a room changed over time?

His ability to read a room has significantly altered, likely due to the assassination attempt in Butler and Joe Biden dropping out.

What does Trump like about politics?

He likes power and being praised, as politics combines both of these things.

What are some examples of Trump getting what he wanted during his presidency?

He imposed tariffs on China and made a tax cut package happen.

What are some things Trump wanted to do but couldn't during his presidency?

He wanted to undo Obamacare and impose tariffs on Mexico, but couldn't due to various constraints.

How do people who worked with Trump describe him?

They almost uniformly say negative things about him, describing him as unfit for the job and a fascist.

What is Trump's relationship with the truth?

His relationship with the truth is based on what he can get away with saying, often to get out of situations or to convince others of something for his benefit.

Chapters

The conversation delves into the forces that shaped Trump's political ideology, his understanding of power, and his behavior in diverse environments like New York City.
  • Trump's uninhibited behavior is a reflection of his personality and environment.
  • New York City's tribal racial politics influenced Trump's views on race and class.
  • Trump's understanding of politics is akin to that of a New York City party boss.

Shownotes Transcript

This week I published an audio essay) about what I think is unique about Donald Trump as a personality and political figure and the dangers he poses if he gets a second term in the White House. But I wanted to go deeper on this topic with someone who knows him much better than I do.

Maggie Haberman is a senior political correspondent for The New York Times and has traced his evolution over the decades in her 2022 book, “Confidence Man: The Making of Donald Trump and the Breaking of America.”

In this conversation, we discuss what Haberman agreed and disagreed with in my essay, the forces that shaped Trump’s ideas of politics and power as a real estate developer in New York City, what she thinks he wants from a second term (including his desire for revenge), how his inner circle has changed since his time in office, what he might do if he loses and more.

Note: This conversation was taped before Trump’s former chief of staff John Kelly went on the record) saying that Trump meets the definition of a fascist and confirming that the former president made admiring statements about Hitler.

Mentioned:

What’s Wrong With Donald Trump?)” by Ezra Klein

Trump’s Speeches, Increasingly Angry and Rambling, Reignite the Question of Age)” by Peter Baker and Dylan Freedman

Trump Leans On Creative Bookkeeping to Keep Up in Cash Race)” by Shane Goldmacher and Maggie Haberman

Book Recommendations:

Kamala’s Way) by Dan Morain

Romney) by McKay Coppins

American Carnage) by Tim Alberta

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast). Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs).

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Jack McCordick.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts) or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.