My Mom’s Hiding a Gambling Addiction
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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. And I was like, that sounds like a scam. And she's like, it's not a scam. And she lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. She hasn't told my stepdad. She thinks she's smarter than everyone. Yes, yes. So that's going to be, it's a hard conversation to have with her. But this isn't, this is not a discussion. What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. The show we're talking about.

All the different relationships you happen to be in, your emotional health, your mental health, your kids, your in-laws, your mom and dad, your spouse, your girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever you got going on in your life. I'm going to sit with you and we're going to figure out what do we do next? What do we do next? If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask A-S-K. Before we go to the first call, Kelly, we partied.

We did. We had fun on Saturday night. Kelly had one of her ancient milestone birthdays. We went to the nursing home and took it over. It was awesome.

And the real story is, so my 50th birthday was last week. And we had a, there's a cover band here in the Nashville area that does this 80s, 90s, early 2000s music. And it's just, they're just fun. They crush, dude. And they're amazing musicians too. And so we had a huge group of people went out and John joined us. And I noticed just as you got there, like one of the first songs they played was Poison. Oh, they played Talk Dirty to Me. I was there. And then they followed it with We're Not Gonna Take It. And I was like,

It took everything I could to keep my shirt on. It was trying to take itself off. So just so you know, so they play for three hours straight. They do not take a break. And...

We never sat down. Those girls, those of us that were dancing, everything still hurts. My abs especially are just screaming for the past two days. I know. I saw y'all just passing out like tubes of Bengay and Geritol. Shorty got low and it, yeah, the next day I felt it. They did. Anytime there's poison and Belle Biv Devoe and Shorty gets low, there's going to be some achy joints in the morning. But they are amazing and it was a lot of fun. Okay. I feel like I have to say this.

Because I saw something, again, I wish I wasn't like this. I just get this way. Whenever I'm at a place, and 99% of the time I'm with my wife. My wife and I went to a concert last night. I just get very mother hen, even though I'm a dude, about the people I'm with. And there was, what, probably 15 women I work with, me and Jim. There was a couple of dudes. Your husband was there. Mike was there. There was a couple of guys there that we know or work with. It kills me.

watching nine or ten of my good friends dancing the night away and there's always one dude

In this case, there was three, but the one guy especially. He wouldn't even face the stage. He was just facing you. I told you, it looked like a school of fish, and it looked like a barracuda just waiting to pick one of y'all off. But the thing is, as a female who has, you know, I love to dance, so we go out. That's normal, sadly. It's what we're used to, and you either ignore or you end up being the...

The B word. And having to be like, dude, knock it off. Yeah. And my husband, when it was over, he was like, okay. He was watching him real closely. Yeah. I couldn't take my eyes off him. I was like, dude, if that dude gets one inch. Yeah. And he kept watching, like finding me where I was and making sure. And I was like, but that's sadly what we're used to. Yeah. It's the norm. Twice when I came down.

He was getting too close. I tried to get between him and him and whoever happened to be there. Yeah, he kind of would just go from one to the other. But he tried to make eye contact. Anyway, here's the deal. Gentlemen, if you are out at a place and you're with your friends, A, keep an eye out. B, if you're one of those guys, stop being that guy. Just stop. And if you're one of those guys, you're not listening to this show. You are like...

Doing push-ups and snorting Red Bull or Red Bull enemas and you're like, oh Whatever you're doing today. Don't be that guy. Don't be that guy and but gentlemen anyway, I It was literally one of the funnest nights. I've had in a long time. Just I was horse coming home Oh, yeah, I was singing so loud and I was super annoyed coming home. Yeah, it's that one idiot and

Who snaps into a Slim Jim. Number one, button your shirt up, dude. What's the matter with you? Oh, it was way low. Button your... Yeah. The deep Vs. Long gone. Yeah. Unless you're George Camel. Then you can wear a deep V, which he does all the time. Well, his is only because he's small. Exactly. It's a regular V. It's a regular V. It just touches his belly button. Right. But, like, don't do that. Don't do that. And, I mean, you know, I'm not afraid to throw an elbow if necessary. I know. And I have. If you get too close, yeah. I mean, oops, sorry about that. Yeah. Shorty will get real, real low. Yeah. So...

But again, you know, ladies, that's why bartenders are great, that kind of thing. And I've seen that band actually before say something to guys in the audience. Good. That's awesome. Yeah, they're really good about it. At the venue I was at last night, there was a sign on the inside of the bathroom door, and it said, if somebody's making you feel uncomfortable, go to the bar and order an angel shot. An angel shot. And they said, we'll take care of it from here. Yeah. And I just, I love that that's becoming the norm. There's just so many creepy idiots ruining people's good time. And how can you ruin a good time when someone's playing Poison and Twisted Sister? Yeah.

You go, you unbutton your shirt almost to your belly button and you start. Sometimes there is something wrong with a little bump and grind if it's not invited. Yeah. All right. Let's go out to Austin, the 512 and talk to Marie. Hey, Marie, what's up? Hey, Dr. John, how are you? I'm so good. How about you?

Good. You know, just overthinking here. That's one of my spiritual gifts. I know. It's like a hobby for me. So I'm good. Good. Do drugs or something. That one's less. I know, right? It's less bad for you. What's up? So my question is, should I talk to my stepdad about my mom's investing addiction? And I can give you some backstory. Is it investing like in an air quotes?

Yeah. So I call it gambling. When she retired, I guess she was bored. And so she's becoming slowly more and more risky with her investments. So it started with 401ks, IRAs, vanguards, the...

basic stuff and then it turned into kind of like day trading with the Robinhood app and stuff like that and then it turned into options trading and now it's turned into cryptocurrency and then she fell for a really big scam how old is she? 73

Okay, so I always like to take these internet things and put them in the real world just to show the absurdity. And so I just picture your 73-year-old mom hanging out with the Robinette bros who all have like really small mustaches and like super tight pants.

And like extra small shirts. And they're like, yeah, listen into house music. And then your mom, I can see your mom on the side being like, yeah. I know. Right. It's just, it's an absurd picture. And so when she told me about this cryptocurrency, um, like, cause it's a group of people. And I was like, that sounds like a scam. And she's like, it's not a scam. Um,

And she lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. And she hasn't told my stepdad because she was waiting for the money to come in, which... Yeah, she has a gambling addiction. She's got the money and it's still waiting. Yeah, she's got a gambling addiction. So she's down hundreds of thousands of dollars? Just from the cryptocurrency. So she doesn't tell me everything, obviously. It's her money and stuff. But...

She told me about this cryptocurrency. She's down hundreds of thousands of dollars, but it's like, that's not the only thing she does. She does options, which are extremely risky. And it's like, I feel like she's going backwards. Like usually when you get older, you get a little bit more conservative, but she's gone the opposite direction with like these get rich quick schemes. How exposed is she on options? Do you even know?

I don't know. I didn't even know what options were until she told me like one time she invested in the wrong option. It was like $17,000 in three days or something like that. It was just gone. The problem with folks trying to do that from their home computers, they're playing with...

multi-billion dollar AI systems run by, you know what I mean? Like you, the reality is you cannot win at home. And that's, that's why everyone who charts, you can have some, some wins, right? I was in Vegas a few weeks ago and I was just having some fun with a little bit of money, a bike check table. I won a couple hundred dollars. It was, it was a cool, I was high five and it was fun. I can't win. I'm not going to leave saying I beat Vegas, right?

Yeah. I had a fun thing. It always loses over time. And so there are some people who've made some money on crypto way more lost their souls. Right. And on, anyway, we can talk about that all day long. Your question, should you tell, um, I always have two, um, two responses to this. Number one, you have to be really direct with her. Like I think you have a gambling problem and I'm watching you just blow through your entire life's work and you're

Either you have to stop or I'm going to bring some other people in on this. Okay. And then the second thing is when somebody's struggling with some sort of addiction or some sort of habit that they can't seem to have control over and it has nefarious consequences, it's costing them things.

I don't give a crap about, bro, you said I bring everybody I can who can possibly contribute to a better outcome. I bring them all in to the conversation. But I always want to honor somebody by saying, you got 48 hours to cut all these accounts and cut your losses or I'm going to bring everybody in. I'd rather her not like me than her have to move into your basement because she blows through every single thing they own.

Yeah, and that's what we're kind of worried about is I don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to support her if she needs to go into a retirement home. That's kind of what her money is for, and we don't have enough room. I mean, Austin is expensive. We don't have enough room for her to come in and stay with us and get the home health care and stuff. So that's kind of...

I've tried to talk to her about it before because she did tell me about the options. And I was like, I think you have a gambling problem. Like this is getting really bad. And she's like, it's not gambling, it's investing. And like, that's kind of her mindset right now. And I know with addiction, they kind of have to be the ones,

And to like, you know, say, okay, I'm going to make the change, but I don't know how. But sometimes that change comes when people realize what they're going to lose. Yeah. And money, clearly her drive to, um, lose, um, to not lose money is, is worn off. Right. Um,

And then the next step is I have to step out of this relationship. You, Marie, have to step out of this relationship because I can't watch, mom, I can't watch you continue to fill your jacket full of rocks and you're going to drown right in front of me. I can't do, I can't watch that. Okay. And I'll help you. And here's another way to think about that. At the low level, low level of 4,000 bucks a month for a retirement home. And if you just think 4,000 bucks times 12, that's 48,000 bucks. If she's lost

$300,000. She just lost six years of retirement home. And if you start putting it on paper like that, you are cashing out years of your life. It's not just money. See what I'm saying? The other kind of issue is she thinks she's smarter than everyone. Yes. So that's going to be, it's a hard conversation to have with her. Like even, um, like anything I bring up,

From the past, like that I've struggled with, she's like, well, I never struggled like that. So I don't know why you do that kind of thing. So, but I, but this isn't, this is not a discussion. Okay. This is a very straightforward mom. You've lost this many hundreds of thousands of dollars. You have a gambling problem. I see it. We all see it. And I'm not going to let you drown like this. Okay. And if she chooses to cut you out, great. Just let her know. You can cut me out. That's fine. I'm going to tell every single person in your life who loves you that this is going on because somebody's got to step in.

Yeah. Or you got 48 hours to tell your husband, you have 48 hours to cut these accounts off and let's go figure something out. My guess is it's way worse than you think it is. Yeah, I'm a hundred percent sure. Okay. All right. And like any good gambler, she's trying to make her law. She just needs one win and she gets all back. Right. Yeah. And just one more win. She keeps looking into those kinds of stuff, you know, and it gets riskier and riskier and you lose more and more and more and more.

Oh, I hate that for you. Okay. Let me ask you this question though. Is she a multi, multi gajillionaire? No. Uh, well then, so the weird part, so that's how she originally made all of her money was through stocks. Um, and so she sold a bunch before like Y2K and made a lot of money that way. But I would say less than

10 million in 2000 um and so like which that's a big number you know and but at the same time um she she spends a lot like a lot a lot and even me and my siblings are like how where is she getting this money you know kind of thing my fear is you quickly go into a world where you are

leveraging debt for these investments and that you just, you end up borrowing money to gamble. If she has $10 million and she wants to blow 200 grand on like option speculation, cool. I mean, she can do that. And because, and you'll probably faint at this because this would be your money in inheritance, but if you have $10 million in your checking account, you can light $200,000 on fire in your living room and it's not going to change your life. You still have $9.8 million left, right? You're fine.

She doesn't have that. No. But I think in her head, she still has that $10 million sale and she's burning through her cash at a rate that she's going to suffocate from the smoke. Exactly. Like she even told me she had to like move around money, like whatever that means. No, no, no, no, no. Gosh. Yeah. And by the way, it may be too far gone. I mean, it may be that she needs to call. I mean, that you need to call father-in-law.

Or a father. Yeah. Yeah, stepdad. But yeah, I... Just as a general rule for everybody listening, if I've got somebody in my life who I love who's struggling with an addiction, I always go to that person first. But it's not a, hey, are you struggling with... I don't do that. At this point, I go in and say, here's what I see. Here's what I know. Here's the boundary I'm going to draw. And...

Also, they're always the or what. Here's what I'm going to do next. You got 48 hours. You have 24 hours. And if it's a life-threatening one, then I go in with a couple of people because we're not leaving this conversation with you just going back by yourself. We're leaving this conversation. You're going to rehab. This one's a little bit different because her immediate life isn't at risk, but her long-term financial health, she may have 20 more years left.

20 more years left, right? And she's just burning cash like it's fireworks. And so, yeah, I would say you got 24, 48 hours and I'm going to tell everybody. So I'm going to honor you by letting you have this conversation or I will. But what's not up for debate is that the conversation is going to be had, right? So plan those things out. Probably write those things down because those conversations can get emotional. And people who are struggling with addiction who are also very, very smart and

Or quick, if you will. Maybe not smart, but quick. They'll have a laundry list of excuses to fire at you. So, I hate that for you, man. There's nothing worse than watching a loved one do something. You just watch them slow, the candle just slowly burn all the way down. And they don't want to hear your advice. They don't want to listen to you. They've got it all figured out. And you just see this car crash coming. I hate it for you. I hate it for you. I hate it for you.

Thanks so much for the call, man. She's lucky to have you as a daughter. And now you got to do hard daughter stuff, which is step in. I'm grateful for you. We'll be right back. Let's talk about Organifi. I just got home from a week in the woods with family and friends and a few hundred high school kids at a summer camp. And as you can imagine, I ate camp food for a week. I didn't sleep great. And high schoolers aren't the most hygienic creatures in the world. And now that I'm home...

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All of it. Invest in yourself with Organifi. All right, let's go out to K Knoxville, to Knoxville, Tennessee and talk to Nikki. What's up, Nikki? Hey, how are you doing? I'm doing all right. How about you? Good. Thanks. I'm excited to talk to you again. Yeah, I've got my notes here. You called me before. So what did you call about last time?

So we talked in, I believe it was November, about my husband who will yell and curse at me specifically in front of our four-year-old daughter. So he had done it again. And so this time, and I told him last time, I said, if it happens again, then we're going to be having a 30-day separation. Last week, I ended up... How did that 30-day separation conversation go? Was he remorseful? Was he sorry? Did that make him more mad?

No, he just didn't really say much at all. Just kind of accepted it. And I don't know if he realized how serious I was about it, probably because he's done it so many times and I never took action on it.

Um, but this time, so last week it happened again and I said, okay, we're, you know, we're taking a separation. It's, it's not okay to do that. And this time was in front of not only my four-year-old, but also my mom. So not only was that embarrassing, but it was, you know, it really lit that fire under my butt. So. Can I just, before we go further, I just want to tell you, um, what you've done is really hard. Um, um, and it's going to cost you things and I want you to know I'm proud of you.

Thank you. I appreciate that. That's real, real hard. And I'm sorry that happened. Thanks. I'm well, I mean, I'm, I'm hoping that by doing this, you know, it's, it's not going to happen to me again, no matter what direction this all goes in. So yeah, that's dignity. I'm proud of you. Good for you. Okay. So, um, you told him you got to get out. What'd he do?

Um, he, it took him two days. It was two days in. And I said, when, you know, it's been two days now when you're going to be leaving. Cause he has a friend that he went to go stay with. And, um, he said, well, why in the world are you so adamant? And then I didn't respond cause that was via text message. And then, um, he just left that night. So, so I, like I said, I don't think he realized how serious I was. So I said, okay, well, when are you, when are you getting out of here?

So he didn't explode, nothing like that, just left. Okay. So how can I help you today? So my question, I wrote it down, is I followed your advice from the first call. We're a week and a half into our 30-day separation. What are our steps moving forward, and how can I test his sincerity and his apologies moving forward? Okay. So I want to do a couple of things here. First, we're going to talk about you, and then we'll talk about him and reconnecting, okay? Okay.

Okay. How's the last, um, is it 10 days we can have? How's that been for you? Um, well, you said something on the last call about, um, where you kind of want to go home and not feel like you're walking on eggshells and be able to breathe for the first time. And my mom did just leave Sunday. So I did have her with me the whole week, but I feel like my house was pretty peaceful. So I feel, I feel pretty good actually. Yeah. That's your body exhaling for the first time in years, huh?

Yeah. The hard part of it, of course, is every day my daughter says, is my dad going to sleep over tonight? When's my dad coming home? And I just kind of have to say, oh, dad's going to pick you up tomorrow. You guys are going to have a fun time. You're going to go do this. Or, you know, because we kind of worked that out because he's seeing her frequently. So is he is he safe to be around? You think? Yeah. Yeah. With her, for sure. It's I feel like, honestly, the person in his life that he acts like this towards is me.

Jeez, I hate that you're his designated punching bag or have been, but no more. Good for you. Okay, so I'll walk through like three things, okay? The first thing is about you. Okay. You have to be very intentional about this time. What your body's going to want to do is exhale. Wouldn't surprise me if you're sleeping more or a little more tired.

Yes. Okay. I've napped every day. There you go. So you've probably got years of stored up. I mean, your body has just been snorting cortisol and adrenaline off the bathroom counter for years. And now it's gone. And you're going to have what I would call a collapse period. Just a cuckoo, right? The temptation when you do that is to do nothing. Okay. Okay. And so I want you to rest, take that time, but also...

You have to have somebody that you're meeting with at least every other day, a friend, a counselor, a group of girlfriends, a parent of your, of a friend of your daughters, right? And you can get the kids together. I want you to be around other people. Okay.

The second thing is I want you to have some sort of movement practice. If you just commit for the next 30 days until this period is over, I'm just going to go for a walk in the afternoons with my daughter. She can be in the stroller. She can walk, stroller, stroller walk, whatever. But I'm going to go for a walk 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes. I'm going to get outside even when it's hot and I'm going to go move my body. Okay? Okay. And the last thing is have some sort of...

nighttime routine. Okay. I don't want you, like, I don't want you to suddenly find yourself Netflixing yourself to midnight and getting up at six the next morning to go do this whole thing again.

Try to create some sort of routine. You're already doing that. Yeah, exactly. So what happens is when somebody leaves, even if they're toxic, even if they're hurting us, they're abusive, whatever, it just creates this, like it's, you're a balloon and you just cut the string and you feel free for the first time. And it's amazing, but you can end up on the other side of the world. And I don't want you to be 30 days down the road and you you're exhausted because you don't sleep anymore. Like,

and you haven't eaten garbage because you don't even feel like cooking because it's just this, ah, and you haven't done any exercise, you haven't moved, you and your daughter, you're just watching TV and handing her an iPad, and suddenly you will begin to feel bad at the end of 30 days. Your body will be run down, exhausted, tired, and then Romeo will show up. And you start to take him back, no questions asked, because he's going to re-add structure back into your life, even if that structure is unsafe. Okay. You get what I'm saying? Yeah.

Yeah, I do. And you're not the only one, but everything I'm saying, you're going, oh crap, that's me right now. Right. And by the way, you get a week, you get a week of just like, I'm going to sleep a little too, too much. I'm like, your body's been running for years, but now I want you to take ownership of the last three weeks and you're not going to, you're not going to get strong or snap into a slim. You're not doing that, but you're, you're creating some structure on your own. Give yourself a bedtime, turn your phone off, those kinds of things. Okay.

Okay. Here's the second thing. This is about him. Did y'all come up with a plan of action or was it just get out? Like you have to go to counseling. You have to do this. I want to see these things before you come back into this house. Or was it just get out?

Uh, it was get out, but we've followed up with some text messages back and forth that he had said, he sent me a message saying, well, what are you doing to better yourself in this time? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's tell him he can just take the bulb out of those gas lights, dude. I'm not going to have that. We're not having that.

Yeah, that's nonsense. This whole thing kind of made me feel a little bit more bold. So I did say all that. Good, good. Yeah. So, yeah, because he said, oh, I'm seeing a therapist. You know, I'm seeing this person and reading the Bible. And I've stopped with my sports because he's always looking at sports on his phone. But I see the things that he said, and it's already things that are part of his routine.

So for me, it's hard for me to judge his sincerity when it's like, okay, but you do these things on a weekly basis. He already sees a therapist and meets with a mentor and reads his Bible. Okay. So, and has this group of guys he sees multiple times a week. So it's kind of hard for me to test that. But so he told me he was doing those things, you know, of course, but I don't know if that kind of answers your question, but. So he told you what he's doing.

Yes. And you've been on the receiving end of this situation for so long, the idea that you would even have any thoughts on this matter are just now awakening in you. So I'm going to tell you, I don't care what he says he's telling you he's going to do. What I need you to do is to decide what would make me feel safe in my own home with my husband here. Okay. And be very specific.

very, very specific, as specific as you can. For instance, you cannot drink again in this house. What are the triggers? Is it money? Is it sex? Is it kids? Is he get really immature when he watches sports? I don't know what his triggers are, what sets him off or why he gets so mad at you. But I want you to be specific about in this peaceful season you have, when are the things that set him, what are the things that set him off?

And when he says like, well, what are you doing to better yourself? Your response is always, I'm not the one screaming and swearing at you in front of our child. I'm not the one that makes you feel unsafe to be in your own home. I'll do my work, but that's not the conversation here. And so you though, it's your responsibility. You asked him to go and you still want to be married to him. Is that right? As long as I'm treated better. Yeah. Well, A, answer that question first. Like sometimes people get this 30 day separation and they exhale and they're like,

Okay. Now that I'm not in fight or flight anymore, I can breathe and I realize you've been unsafe for years and years, right? All that, that will happen or some sort of revelation. Or you might be like, I really, really miss him and I really want to work on this thing. But you don't want to be led by feelings. And so be very specific about what you need in your home to feel safe again. Okay. And so go see a therapist all day long. Great. Knock your lights out. You're already seeing a therapist.

Yeah, I need a note from your counselor or I need to come on the last week and i'm going to join you in your therapy And we're going to talk Just so you know nikki Counseling 101 one of the first things they teach us in class The first thing I used to teach my grad students is your clients will lie to you So you don't know what story he's given to his counselor that his crazy wife kicked him out because she's got a Her mom was here and she did this and this right her his therapist may have no idea

That's actually what's funny about that. We used to see him together where we'd see him together one week. The next week was with him. And then the next week was just myself. And then I kind of repeated that cycle over and over. But for, I mean, but I stopped seeing the therapist probably a year ago after another fight we had gotten into and he just continued to see him on his own. So, I mean, I'm sure that's accurate. Yeah. Well, here's the deal.

Let's say he was going to a knee rehab specialist. Okay. And he's been going for two years and his knee keeps failing him. He would have stopped going a long, long time ago because the specialist is not helping. And so it's fair for you to say the counselor you've been seeing for all of these years is clearly not working. Yes. And so you just going back to the same workout routine is not okay.

Yeah. Or we are going to go see a new person starting next week and we're going to be together one hour a week during the separation and I'm going to pick the person. Okay. And that's going to be your work to do. But I want you to think for the first time probably ever in terms of what do I want and what do I need to feel safe in my own home? And then be very, again, very specific, probably an email column. And I would tell you guys this, I tell you, I tell everybody this.

These texting exchange things are not good. They're not good. Yeah, I agree. So I would tell them, hey, for the next three weeks, we're not going to text like this. We'll call once a night or we'll call every other night or whatever parameters you set up and I'll shoot you an email. But here's my expectations before you move back in. Whatever they happen to be. Him just going away for 30 days doesn't do anything. It calms the smoke down from the immediate thing, but he's already back to being his old self.

Yeah. Well, and that's the hard thing too, is how, you know, you're saying, uh, this is a little bit more of a deep dive into what's going on, but you're saying like, there's certain things that he needs to do. So I feel safe in the home. It doesn't, it's not as much of a tangible thing, you know, like you can't drink anymore, anything like that. It's his insecurity. Like if anything in life goes, he perceives it to be ahead of him. Then that's kind of what makes him snap, you know? So it's like how,

I know it's nothing that I could do, but how can I navigate that? You know, if it's something having to deal with his insecurities. I mean, that's putting you in a diagnostic role and I would stay out of that for the time being. Okay. Because that's a root issue. Let that be between him and his therapist. Okay. For you, stay at the behavior. You cannot talk to me this way in this house. If you clench your fist and bang on a counter, you cannot do that. If you get enraged because I...

served my plate before yours, I mean, or if the dishes aren't done just the right way or my underwear isn't folded the right way, you cannot do that. Because here's the deal. You have a toddler in your house, not just your four-year-old. You have an adult toddler, but that's like handing a toddler a shotgun. He's a toddler, but he has humongous muscles, right? He's big and he can cause significant lasting damage with his anger and his rage and his childishness, his immaturity.

Oh, yeah. Here's the third thing y'all got to work on, okay? You've got to be very specific about reentry. Here's my recommendation to everybody. Have a date and a time and a restaurant on the calendar. It's not a guarantee that he comes back in day 30. It's kind of like you buy a house, you buy a house, and then you go, the inspector comes back, and then you negotiate, like, I want you to fix these five things or whatever. You go walk through that house before closing.

Right. So before I take ownership of this house and write you a check, I'm going to go make sure you did all the stuff that we agreed on. And so put in writing. So it's on everybody's calendar. You don't want him just rolling back in the house on some random Tuesday, which, by the way, he's an owner of the house. He can. So I always keep that in mind. He can roll back in that house and say, I'm not leaving anymore.

And then you're going to have a decision to make. But right now he's being a good sport about it. He is, he's following the direction you put on the, on the table. I would say pancake pantry nine o'clock in the morning on this date. This is where we're meeting period. And if he doesn't show up, you're not gonna have to deal with that.

If he does show up, we're going to have a conversation about what, what moving back in looks like. Yeah. He did actually try to ask a couple of days ago, well, do you want me to come or can I go stay over it so I could see Scarlet in the morning? And I said, no, you can come, you know, this time. And I said, well, we'll have a conversation next week on Tuesday. I think I said, well, she was at school so I can get a, and I will. Oh,

Oh, go ahead. I was going to say, I've heard these things. All this is going to be about your comfort level. Sometimes people do these 30-day things and they go to couples counseling once a week or twice a week. Sometimes people do these 30-day things and it is they meet for a meal once a week. No kids, no nothing, just to talk through it together.

Like when all the anger and the rage is out of context. There's still anger and rage at the dinner table, but it's in a public place. People are going to act a little more civilized. You can have a little more of a deeper conversation that's not emotionally tied to a location, right, to your home. Or sometimes people are like, I can't look at you. I'm not going to text you. We just need a clean break for 30 days, and then we'll circle back. Whatever you feel comfortable with.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that about the restaurant for sure. And if he is a... Like a soul...

a soul vacuum he just like takes your soul from you and he'll just worm and leech and blob his way back into the house right on the couch with another beer yelling at you again then maybe you need to be a little more aggressive with the boundary and if he's not if he's really working hard he doesn't want to yell and scream he always gets embarrassed and ashamed he just doesn't know what to do then maybe i feel safe enough to have dinner with him once a week as during the separation time that you that'll depend on how y'all negotiate that all right you have one more question go for it

Yeah. Now with that too, again, this was the texting thing. I feel like in a nutshell, he used to be very, very, very addicted to weed and he has been sober for a little over three years. So the way I like to explain it is I feel like we've never learned how to communicate effectively, no matter if you're a therapist or whatever. So

So we have been texting. Unfortunately, that's not my first choice, but he did send me a message a few days ago that he's never expressed in this way before. He did say, I am very sorry for how I have verbally abused you and I need to change that. And so he says those things, but how can I actually test his sincerity going forward? So I want you to get rid of the word test.

Okay. Okay. That creates a power dynamic that a guy who's been hiding from his own life through insecurity, he will feel that a mile away. And it's a very tough hill to climb. Okay. So we're not going to test. We are going to build something new together. And it's a new marriage where we don't yell at each other. We don't scream. And we support each other. And yes, we get frustrated. Yes, we get pissed off. Yes, we get angry. We're people. But we're going to handle these things like adults. And we're going to practice that. Okay. And I'm not going to test you.

But if you scream and yell again, you're opting out of my house, period. Okay. So it's just as simple as if it happens again. Right. So we're going to put things on the table. Once you get in the testing thing, then he's trying to please mommy or he's trying to please his teacher. And you can't build a relationship that way. Now, for you to regain trust in him, like if he had been cheating on you, it would be fair to say every evening, I want to see your text messages.

Cool. Here's the code to my phone, right? Here's everything. I want you to get off all social media. Done. My marriage is way more important than likes and thumbs up and thumbs down. This is a little different, right? So I wouldn't call that testing. I would just call that reestablishing trust. But testing is – Yeah, that's exactly – I don't want you trying to poke at him and see if he snaps and be like, I told you – let's just get testing out of our head. We're trying to build something new.

Part of building something new is you may jump on the foundation to make sure it's firm. That's cool. But I'm not, I'm not gonna, it's not me versus you. Okay. Does that make sense? That's an important mental shift there. Yeah. Yeah. I think trusting is a better word. Cause that's exactly how it feels. Like how, how do I trust them enough to know that it's not going to happen again? Like how can I have them move back in and not feel like I'm walking on eggshells? That's when he sits down at dinner next week and he says, um, Hey, I got, I got your email. Um,

I've taken off work tomorrow evening so you and I can go to that marriage counselor that you picked. I'm not going to go back to my guy. You're right. Clearly, it's not helping me change my behavior at all. I've started journaling and maybe I'll start journaling together. You can do an online one or y'all can share whatever that means for y'all.

I think a journaling practice for both of you would be really, really useful right now because he doesn't have the skills to talk and that's okay. A lot of men don't have the skills to talk. A lot of women don't have the skills to talk, but he didn't have those skills, but let's write them down. Let's write them down or let's do voice memos to each other, right? We can do long voice memos to each other and hit send and then you can listen to it and just feel it

Get angry, get sad, get heartbroken, get happy, whatever, and then you can respond. But the trust is going to come when you sit down for dinner next week or in a month when you'll have breakfast or whatever, and he says, I've done this and I've done this and I've done this and I've had no more outbursts. I've been journaling. Here's my journal stuff. We've been to counseling twice now. We're going to go a third time. I will never yell and scream at you again. All right.

Anything reentry is going to be a risk for you. It's going to be a risk for him. Right. But it's not going to be a pass fail. It's going to be I've got to see something different.

Thank you so much for the call. I'm, I'm, I'm, I can't tell you how proud of you I am. And I want you to be, to brace for it. These usually get worse before they get better. Okay. His healing is going to not be a linear path with all. Oh, this is awesome. It's gonna be hard. It's very, very hard to grow where he's trying to grow. And it's very hard for you to be a single mom, which is what you've opted into for at least 30 days. It's hard. It's hard. And I'm proud of you. Super proud of you.

You having peace, that home having peace, your daughter having peace may give him a chance to heal. And then you guys got a new marriage. Proud of you. Call any time. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

So my wife and I were meeting the other day about the back-to-school madness that is about to be on us. We've got my travel schedule, her work schedule, our daughter's new school and clothes and forms to fill out and all these online portals and my son's sports schedule and he's got to have shoes every two weeks because his feet won't stop growing and how are we going to pay for all this and on and on and on.

And when we step back and look at our schedule, it's so packed and we haven't even put in the things like exercise, date nights, counseling appointments, church and holiday trips and big home projects. And these are the things that make life worth living. And I listened to y'all. This is your life too. And here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, my family and my work, I have to begin with the things that matter most and the things that keep me well and whole so I can wade into the chaos and be sturdy and present and strong.

you too. So as you're planning your upcoming end of summer and fall plans, make sure you don't skip date nights, don't skip regular exercise, and don't skip your regular therapy appointments. Yes, therapy can be hard work, but can also help make the rest of your life possible.

When it comes to therapy, I want you to consider calling the team at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

With a good therapist, you can learn things like positive coping skills, how to set boundaries, how to deal with all the chaos going on in your life, and how to be the best version of yourself. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day. Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney.

All right, let's go out to Arlington, Virginia and talk to Alex. Hey, Alex, what's up? Hi, how are you? I'm good. How about you? I'm pretty good. Outstanding. I don't be nervous. Hey, we are our third caller dropped. And so I appreciate you hopping on here and being willing to come on a short notice is awesome. So what's up? Yeah. So I'm currently six months pregnant. How can I set boundaries for my parents when they come visit me? Oh, tell me about that.

Um, so I have problems setting boundaries and, um, my prop, my parents have problems respecting boundaries. Those usually, those usually work together. You've learned your whole life. Your boundaries don't mean very much. Your parents just run over them, right? Oh my gosh. Yes. 100%. How old are you? I'm 27. Is this baby number one or number two? One. One. So in their mind, this is their, this is more their grandchild than it is your baby.

Um, yeah, maybe, but they also have other grandchildren. Okay. So what do you think is going to happen that you're scared is going to happen?

I think, one, they're not going to respect hygiene boundaries. So, like, kissing my baby, especially when she's, like, one day old, you know, not vaccinated and all that stuff, just coming off a plane. My dad also just doesn't have good hand hygiene. Okay. And then, two, bringing in a lot of gifts.

which stressed me out a lot. I'm really stressed out by even just having things on the counter. Like I don't even have a coffee machine because having things on the counter would just stress me out. And it takes up too much mental and emotional space for me that I don't like clutter. Obviously I'm going to have clutter with a baby. You're, you're, you're, you're, uh, yeah, you're, it's like a human explosion. Everything, everything that you've kept tightly controlled will be erupted all over your living room. Right.

Yes, absolutely. Has controlling the variables, has cleanliness and structure and tidiness, has that been a way you've managed the chaos you grew up in? Parents who just didn't really give a crap what you think or feel or believe?

I think more so it developed from my mom because my mom gets a lot of like random stuff, like stuff that she hasn't opened in years and doesn't plan to open, but refuses to get rid of it. And so I saw how all this stuff just ended up piling up and it stressed me out. And so now I don't get anything. Gotcha. Okay. Well, I'll give you...

I'm going to give you a couple of different ideas, okay? Okay. And you do with them whatever you want to. Is that cool? Yeah. Okay. So I think it was basically, I don't know the title. Everyone's got these different titles. I think it was the Chief Health Officer of New York. I remember an article a few years ago, and she was asked, what's the one thing

Like as a, she was a parent too. And it was, what's one thing, what's the greatest advice you could tell a parent of a newborn the first, a first time. And her joke, her, her, her piece of advice was a joke, but not really like in practice, it's a joke, but it had a big truth to it. She said, I would encourage every parent to go down to the subway and roll your newborn around on the subway floor.

oh okay okay so i tell you that don't do that do not do that nobody listen to us do that but um trying to create an overly sanitized planet for your child actually robs them of a lot of the things that they can

They can, like, different sorts of things. They can come in contact with dirt and germs, et cetera. And that through still feeding with you, through all, anyway, it allows their body to begin to develop strength that will last them through their entire adulthood. Okay, so I tell you that to tell you. If somebody hugs your baby, kisses your baby, and you're like, oh!

A, it's probably going to be okay. And number two, it doesn't matter what I say because they're your boundaries and it's your kid. Okay? Right. So here's how we've handled this in my house and how I'd recommend anybody handle this. My wife gave me a written, here's what I want to have happen when our son was being born.

My daughter was being born. She gave me another list. And now my wife's nervous, like what she does for nerves. I might go lift or go for a run or play guitar. She makes lists. Okay. And so she wrote down a list of questions I was not supposed to ask.

right it ended up being hilarious but also it's not helpful okay um she also sent letters to both my mom and her mom and our extended families here's going to be our plan here's when y'all can come visit here's some things i'm very specific about i had one buddy um who had a parent who smoked and the during labor the parent was outside i had a cigarette and came in

He stepped in. He was like, nope, not holding my baby. Not after that. You got to go wash completely up and change your shirt. And there was a little bit of an awkward pause, but that parent really respected that boundary. It was like, I was getting frustrated, but went and washed up, changed shirt, and then came back. So all that to say, you get to set the boundaries and you know as well as I do, they're going to come at a cost. Well, maybe we won't just come then. Or

You're going to be in a delivery room and you've told your parents, we want you to wash your hands. You've got to wash your hands before you hold the baby. No kissing the baby. And your dad just goes in for a kiss and you have to say, I need someone to take the baby from him, please. This man is not permitted to hold my baby right now. And that's going to be an awkward, hard conversation. Or your husband. Do what? It's up to you. I don't know your dad.

Okay. If he is somebody that you say, hey, dad, please wash your hands before you come into the house, and he looks at you, and he sticks them in the flower bed and moves them around in the dirt and then walks in, if he's that kind of guy, yeah, you might have to say, man, you've opted out of holding the kid because you're not respecting my boundaries. Oh, you're so ridiculous. I've got tons of grandkids. It'll make them tough. I don't care what you're saying. This is my baby and my boundary, period. Or...

if he's the kind of guy when you say, hey, will you kick your shoes off before you come in my house? And he goes, oh my gosh, are you kidding me? But then he takes his shoes off, then maybe it's just one time. Right? That's up to you. Okay. What do you think is going to happen? Well, I think that my dad...

He did a lot of crazy things. Like, for example, when it was the height of COVID, like, for example, we were still tracking how many COVID cases there were in each county, you know, back in the height, like the start and the scare of everything. My brother had a baby and my dad came to visit and he found out later that he had COVID and he didn't want to tell my brother.

And so I told my brother, but I think that my dad is capable of, you know, having like RFP or a cold or not feeling well and not telling me and then, you know, getting my baby sick. Yeah. I, I, I think the risk of that happening is very, very, very low of, of something bad happening to your baby.

the bigger picture is, and you and I could probably talk for a long time about it. The bigger picture is you've grown up over the course of your life with a man who is more concerned about his pride or more concerned about not looking bad or saving face than he is about helping somebody. Right. If I go visit somebody, a family, and we have dinner together, we go back to their house, we have coffee, we have drink, we hang out. And then the next morning I have the flu and

Of course, I'm going to call and tell them, guys, I have the flu. Like we do this in the office. People on the show, they're stuck in this box. Everybody texts each other. Hey, I've got COVID. I've got the flu. Everybody make sure you be extra vigilant. But we're not trying to save face in here. We're trying to protect ourselves here. And so you've grown up with that your whole life. And my guess is it's happened in some bigger issues too than just that one time with COVID. You've got to make that call for yourself. But here's the thing about boundaries.

You have to decide what you want this to be. And then you have to be very clear about communicating it. And you have to live with the ramifications of your boundary. And most people who want to make boundaries want to hedge on one of those three things or all three of those things. They don't want to put very clearly in writing or very clearly on the phone or in text message, here's my expectations. They just want people to read their mind. Or they don't want to have to say, okay, you got to get out. You can't be in here.

whatever, whatever. So you got to do those three things and it's important. And so take some time. If you're married, sit down with your husband, you'll map this thing out together. What do we want this experience to be like? And as a new mom, you're going to have a lot of things to be anxious about, to worry about. You drop a pacifier, you can just dust it off. It'll be fine. It'll be fine. That immune system's growing. It's strong. And

More than likely, baby, be fine. Be fine. Thank you so, so much for the call. I wish you guys all the best. Hang on the line. I'm sending you a free copy as my baby gift of building a non-anxious life. That's my gift to you. I want you to read it and that might be a good path for you and your new family to follow in creating a house that has some peace in it.

then maybe your husband can get a coffee maker on the counter. Just maybe, just maybe. Thanks, Alex. We'll be right back.

Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

All right, we're back. All right, what's up, Kelly? All right, first of all, I really need some cool crap that happened emails and am I the problem emails. So please send me your cool stories and your am I the problems. I need those. Send them to just the regular John email, askjohn at ramsaysolutions.com. Perfect. Great. Now, you put a social post up that I really, really liked. I want to talk about it. I want you to talk about it.

You're not a better person than them just because your addictions are less visible or more socially acceptable. You're not. And instead of asking how they could keep drinking, gambling, using, etc., ask what happened in their life that makes them this way, that this is the only way that they know how to survive. Recognize that you're not better than that. Then go be a light and seek connection. Connection is where healing begins. Yeah, I mean, the root of that –

i had an encounter with somebody and i i was pretty frustrated um i there was a group of people and one person was treating some other people really bad and they had a very demonstrable addiction of their own it just wasn't one of the designated sins of the world and um it was really a case of i'm i'm superior to you and i just got pissed and that's where that's from deeper than that is and i've talked about on the show i had a uh one of my one of my grad school professors

said the old question of why does that person keep drinking is a bad question. It's not a helpful question. It's not a fruitful question. Why is that person gambling all their life away? Why does that person work 120 hours a week? Why does that person keep cheating on their... That's not the right question. The right question is what in the world is happening in this person's life that the only way their body has figured out how to get through this life is by drinking alcohol. Overconsuming. Everything in their life is burning down. What's the point? How is this person...

What is going on in the heart and mind in the life of this person that the only way they think they can make it through the day is to keep cheating on the person that loves them the most? Like, that's a much more instructive question, and you get to the heart of it. And at the end of the day, it's a much more compassionate question because it's not a, I'm better. I'm not better than you. I just want to know what's, dude, what is so hard about your life? And I've just, so we do this, I'll say this. We do this thing at our,

here in nashville that i love it's called room at the inn and a lot of churches get involved and during the winter months they provide a place for people to sleep inside when it's freezing cold and um

So they'll have mattresses stacked up inside buildings. And usually these guys get classrooms, they get showers. At my church, we have a tiny little building. So we have six or seven guys that will come spend the night. A group of us will have dinner together. We'll all play cards. We'll just watch a movie. We'll shoot the crap together. And sometimes it's hilarious. Sometimes we're just exhausted. The first time I ever did this, I'm ashamed to say, it was all guys who had nowhere to go.

A hundred percent, all seven of them were up and gone the next morning before I woke up because they had to be at their job. They were working construction and had to be there at 6.15 a.m. And I remember asking somebody, these are all homeless guys and they're already at job site at 6 a.m. working hard. And they said, yeah, they just fell in this, the guy at the time called it a 60 day gap.

Whether their house had just burned down, they had just been evicted because their landlord wants to sell the house. There's any number of reasons why, and they don't have a house right this second, and they have to keep going to work. But if they don't have a place that they can spend the night and get a shower and get their clothes washed and get back out there, then in 60 days, they will have spent 25 of those days in the car.

or they'll start sleeping outside or they'll have to miss work and then they're going to have to miss another work or they're going to show up on job site with dirty clothes, not smelling good. And the boss can say, Hey man, you can't, you can't be here like this. It's a place of business. And in those 60 days it can go from, okay, now I've got 60 days. I got six days of work. I got a, I had a place to sleep and I got a new apartment. I'm, I'm, I'm back off to the races or 60 days and it's almost impossible to recover from. Right. The question is,

i'm ashamed to say i didn't ask was uh i the question was always why are you instead of man how and that how is such an inviting question because then it's compassionate and it gives me a dude how can i step and how can i walk alongside you during this moment not point my finger at you right and i think that same issues with addictions with any behavior that we find troubling or hard or scary

Man, what is going on in your world that you're this angry about this? What in the world are you this mad about? I think that's just a gentler way to go about our world. And if we all ask that question, my goodness, what a different world we'd have. Because then it'd be like, oh man, well, come stay at my house. That's different than you. Get out, right? Anyway, if we walk through the world, not assuming we're better than everybody, but we're being curious and we're looking for ways we can love people instead of ways we can just move ourselves one inch above them.

I'm telling you, man. It's a different planet we live on. It's a different planet. Thanks for that, Kelly. Ben, thank you. Guys in the booth. Taylor, everybody. Grateful for you guys. And I'm grateful for you, America. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Bye.