I’m in Love With Her (She Doesn’t Feel the Same)
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I'm calling about my best friend, and I guess that's kind of an understatement. I let her know that I didn't see her as a co-worker or a friend, and she told me that she was not going to be dating anyone until she was at least 40. So, I let go. Hold up. What? Yo, yo, yo. What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Shout out to everybody out there trying to navigate the fall heading into the holidays.

Kelly, when does this show release? November 1st. Oh, so we're just a few days out from presidential election when this thing's there. Luckily, everybody's being cool about that. So that's good. No drama there. So hey, shout out to everybody trying to be good brothers and sisters and moms and dads and boyfriends and girlfriends and parents and sons and daughters, whatever you got going on.

Man, hats off to you. It's a wildcat season. And I just, as a rule, just don't get super worked up about stuff. I'm just finding myself getting worked up about everything. I think it's just in the water and in the air. So, man, I'm so glad you're here. On this show, we talk about your psychological health and your emotional health and your relationships.

Relational health, whatever you got going on. That's the point of the show. I'm gonna sit with you. We're gonna figure it out Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 if you want to be on this show 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask A-S-K and let me know what's going on leave a message and we'll call you back and hope you're doing well Let's go to Salt Lake City to the Utes and talk to Rick. Hey Rick. What's up, brother? I'm doing good. What's up, man?

Well, I'm calling about my best friend, and I guess that's kind of an understatement. My dad used to call her Miracle Girl before he passed away four years ago, and we met at my mom's memorial service, and her mom was trying to convince me to hire her daughter to do graphic design for me, and I ended up doing that.

And while we started working together, I began to see her in a really different light. I realized I was able to have really deep conversations, philosophical conversations, and neither one of us were bored or not on the same page. And she was also extremely supportive.

in this time of my life where I felt like I'd pretty much lost everything. I lost my mom, I lost my grandmother six days before, and I lost my son because his mom took him and ran to another state with our son. And so I was feeling pretty alone.

And, you know, when I realized that she was this most amazing person, I let her know that I didn't see her as a co-worker or a friend. And she told me that she was not going to be dating anyone until she was at least 40. So I let go. Hold up. What? Well, you know, I think that kind of stems from some of her own family trauma. No, you don't say. Yeah.

I've heard a lot of boundaries in my life, and that's the first time I've ever heard that boundary. I will date when I'm 40. I don't even know what to say to that, man. Dude, you know me. You listen to me. I talk too much. And that one shut me up, man. I don't know what to say. All right, so you are over time madly in love with somebody. I guess she works for you. Does she work with you?

No. So I think I want to fast forward a little bit. So in 2019, I decided to move to Utah and move with my dad and his wife. And I invited her to come with. And I figured, you know, I'm going to have a lot of extra room in this new house. And she decided she was up for the adventure. So for the last five years, we've been living together.

together in separate rooms. Um, but we've traveled all over the country together. We've continued to work together. We cook together. We go to church together. We work out at the gym together. We do like everything together. And we even watch your show together. Do y'all sleep together? Do we what? Have y'all ever slept together? No, no, no, no. Nothing like that. I love you. Like, no, no, no, no, not that, not that.

Jess, we just worship and travel and eat and cook and we share the most intimate parts of our lives except for that. Okay. And so my guess is she still doesn't want to marry you.

Yeah, that's well, yeah, that's what it seems to be the thing. And I think that, in fact, here's the funnier part. We we we watched your show with the Harvard, the interview with the Harvard professor. Oh, Dr. Brooks. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We loved it. And the thing that we were noticing is that he talked about these stages of falling in love. And, you know, it's like we didn't.

We didn't have that. We kind of jumped from the we didn't really know each other that well to working together and then just doing life together. And so we didn't have this kind of phase of of the drama, if you will, of falling in love. And I think that for her, you know, one of the things she she talked about is like, I don't feel the fireworks. I don't feel like.

the spark or, you know, something magical. And, and yet we do our lives together so beautifully and we just have so much fun together. Dude, I'm going to break your heart right now, but I'm going to tell you the truth. Is that okay? Absolutely. Um, how long has it been? Seven years? Yep. Yeah. This is seven years of drama. You didn't avoid the drama. You are in it up to your eyeballs.

And here's why. You've held out hope. And when you meet somebody in the whirlwind of the loss you endured, on the heels of the loss of, I'm assuming, your first marriage, is that right? We weren't married, but yeah. We were living together for 11 years. Okay. Oh, my gosh, dude. I mean, the word that just keeps coming to mind is you've been living in a fantasy for seven years. Mm-hmm.

And there's an exhale to this. This is a harder, more practical question. Do you, does she pay rent? Yeah. Market rent or buddy rent? No, no, no. Market. Okay. Yeah. She, she's got a pretty good setup. She's a guy that loves her. The guy that, that takes care of her in every way, but she does not have to make the same emotional commitment. Right. And she,

y'all are very, very close friends in that you do life together. Y'all are not close friends in that you keep burying a part of yourself in order to maintain proximity to this fantasy. And if she truly loved you like a close, deep, intimate friend, not sexually, not romantically, but deep, intimate friend, she would have moved out because she knows she's torturing you. And if you loved you as much as you love the idea of her,

you would have said, hey, I need to sell this house. I need to find my own place or buy this house, but I need you to find your own place. This is unhealthy for me. And I do want to have a deep, powerful, romantic relationship one day, and it's not going to be with you. I've got to move on with my life.

I think the hard part for both of us is that we both value the relationship that we have very much because neither one of us have ever met someone like the other in that we don't have... Like, she's never had somebody in her life that has been the kind of person I've been in her life, and that also goes in reverse. I've never...

met anyone like her. And I think that's part of why this is such a struggle is because it's like, I don't think either one of us wants to lose this thing that we have, but she also, there's also this kind of separation in terms of how each of us feel about each other. You want more though.

Right. And she's got her perfect setup. She didn't want to be romantically with somebody until she was 40. She got the dream setup. She got the provision, the protection. She got the ride or die. She's got the meal provider. She's got the travel security. But she doesn't have to do the next more scary, terrifying thing, which is be vulnerably intimate with somebody. And I'm not telling her that she has to do that with you.

Right. What I'm saying is there's a, there's a, it's almost parasitic. And listen, if you were not every day waking up, seeing her saying, you are the woman of my dreams. And she's saying, no, no, you're the friend of my dreams. If y'all weren't doing that and y'all are just roommates, that's great. Y'all are two like close, close buddies. You know what I mean? And y'all like live together and y'all both date and other people and doing light. Like I got no problem. Fine. Knock your lights out. Right. That's not the case here. Every day you're chasing a ghost.

And so you get in this weird spiral of I want this to be something more than it is, and she wants it to be the same forever and ever, and both of those are fantasies.

Right. Well, part of what, you know, for me, like, um, you know, what I've been trying to do is, is rather than, uh, play the game of, of demanding that, that she just automatically feel different. I've, I've been working on me to, to say, Hey, what do I have to do to be more? I know you don't hear what you're saying. You don't hear what you're saying. She said, no, she said, no, it's not about you.

It's not about something you've done wrong. It's not about something that you are not because if it was something that was wrong with you or something you are not, she wouldn't travel with you. She wouldn't live in the same house as you. She wouldn't cook and share meals with you. It's not about you. It's about her. She said no. And that's why I say she's a fantasy for you.

because she allows you this illusion of this carrot that just keeps moving. Every time you get close, it just moves and it moves and it moves. It's this finish line, but it allows you not to re-engage in the real world. And it allows you to, not narcissistic, but I'm talking about the myth of narcissists. It allows you just to keep looking in the reflection of yourself in the pool and saying, what about me? What about me? What about me? This dude has nothing to do with you. She said, no.

And there's an exhale there. Does that make sense? You know, it makes sense on a logical level. And I think the hard part is figuring out, and I'm sure this is probably true for her too. It's like, I don't think either one of us, you know, we want to hold on to whatever that is, the magic that we do have. And I think the hard part is just saying, you know, as good as that magic is, it's not good enough for long term. I think that's the wrong thing.

I don't want you to, because what you're doing is you're categorizing like my, I've got, I've got multiple friends. Like I just went and did an event for a buddy. My name, Tucker. We've been friends for over 30 years. We met in middle school. Um, my buddies, Ryan and Kate and Caleb and Chris did have known them since I was zero 40 plus years.

Right. Like, you don't, you don't get those. Those are not less than my marriage to my wife for a quarter century. They're different. Right. And so trying to categorize, like, it's never going to be as good as no, no, no, dude, what you have with her scene. I trust you. It's amazing. It's awesome. But it's not this romantic adventure that you want to go on. Right. This becoming one, y'all are incredible roommates. Right.

You are not one plus one equals one. Y'all aren't a new math problem. And you desperately want it to be. That's true. But I think you constantly say, okay, how do I work on me? I'm going to get in better shape. I'm going to make more money. I'm going to be nicer. I'm going to try new foods. I'm going to go to visit exotic locations that she wants to go on. All those activities keep you from having to grieve the fact that you've got to move on to find a romantic one for the rest of your life.

Right. It's a Xanax. It's a fantasy. Got it. And y'all can still be amazing, close, wonderful friends, but you can't share a house, dude. Because I don't want to date somebody who's like, this is my super best, perfect, wonderful human, except they just wouldn't marry me, so I decided to bring you home. I can't do that. Yeah, exactly. Hey, not to mention, I just cast that out that way.

Not to mention you, because every morning you wake up to have breakfast and you're playing theater. Right. Because I want to imagine this would be us having breakfast. And I want to imagine that I get to see how beautiful you are every morning with no makeup. Right. And she gets to imagine what it'd be like waking up and having a providing strong man in the house,

Um, but not really having to go all in when it comes to vulnerability and intimacy and building a romantic erotic life together. Right. Yep. I hate that, man. Yeah. Can I tell you more than anything? I want her to be yours. I mean, not yours, like possession wise, but I want her to be your, your person. Right. And she's told you for seven years, it's not going to happen. Yeah. Yeah.

And ultimately I would say, keep being roommates, keep being best friends. I don't know that you can right now. Yeah. I think you're right. And that's, that's a tough, it's really hard for me to have that, to make that admission, I guess. I know. You know where you got to spend some time? You got to spend some time with grief, brother. Yeah. And you've heard me say this, but it's just that gap between what I wanted to be true and what actually is.

Right. You know what I mean? I wanted my grandma, my grandmother, my granddad, I wanted them to live forever because they're awesome and they're wise and they're hilarious and snarky and funny and they died. Right? Yeah. And I wanted the first time, the first 10 years of my marriage to be awesome and it wasn't. And a lot of it was because of me. You know what I mean? Like, I got to grieve that and then I got to go do the next right thing. Yeah. I've learned a ton, you know, and I will say that I think that, um,

you know, I, I'm not one of those people that's had a lot of relationships in my life. I've, I've had two significant relationships and, um, you know, I, and that was it. I've been very, um, I grew up in a very conservative home and my parents were, were, they, they gave me a great role model, um, for most of my life. And, uh, so, you know, and

So much of what I see in my bestie, I really see the same dynamic that my parents had. And maybe that's more valuable to me because I see the ebb and flow and how beautiful that synergy kind of works together. But maybe it's not as valuable for her because she didn't have that growing up. No, stop. Stop doing that. Stop playing comparison.

What you have with this woman is great. It's amazing. Once in a lifetime. And there's a period. It's not the full extent of what you want your adult life to be. Right. So it's not an either or. It's a both and. What you have with her is amazing. And you want to have a deep, passionate, powerful, romantic relationship.

Right. It's not an either or, and it doesn't matter about her childhood. I'm sure that there may be that your parents didn't have a great romantic relationship, but they were great co-managers of a household. And you're reimagining that. I'm going to say this and it sounds weird because I'm always saying the opposite. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. What matters is right this second.

Right. You have the depth and a powerful friendship and a loving friendship and you want something else. Right. And it's just, it's not trying to figure it out. Not trying to map it. It's not trying to go backwards and forwards and up and down and why me and why you, and I'm going to keep working harder because one day I'm going to win you. She for seven years, the better part of a decade has looked at you and said, no, no, I want part of you. I don't want all of you.

And for seven years, you've been willing to not accept all of somebody and not to live fully all of you because you've been hoping and hoping and hoping and hoping and hoping. And that's where I got to spend some time in grief, man. It's not going to happen. She's told you that. And I think that the most honoring friend thing you could do is to honor it and say, cool, we're going to stay close, close friends, and I'm going to start dating. I'm going to need you to move out.

And we'll still hang out. We can still have coffee together, whatever. But I'm going to begin to turn my sights upward because I don't think I'm a problem. I don't think there's a thing that I don't bring to the table that will then one day you'll go, oh, that's, I don't think there, I don't think there is. I think I'm working really hard. I think I'm a pretty good man. Like I've done incredible work on myself. I think I'm, I'm, I'm valuable and worth being in a romantic relationship. And maybe I want to have a romance and I want to have kids and I want to make this kind of life. And I'm going to honor the fact that you for seven years have said no. Fantastic.

But I'm going to move on. And bro, that's going to rip your heart out because you wanted it to be different. And it's just not. Sorry, man. Thanks for letting me honor you enough just to sit with you and tell you the truth. And man, she wants to call in. She's a show listener. Happy for her to call into y'all can both call in. But I'm really grateful that you let me sit with you for a few minutes. Here's your homework assignment. I want you to write a letter to your future wife, the woman you haven't met yet.

Not the fantasy that's your roommate, but I want you to write a letter to your future wife. Tell her you're coming for her. And tell her what you really want, what you expect, what you hope when it comes to romance and eroticism and love and sensuality and sexuality. I want you to tell her, I'm coming for you. I'm going to come find you. And I'm going to take my head out of the mirror. I'm going to take my head out of the mirroring pool. I'm going to start looking up because I'm coming to find you. Thanks for the call, my brother. We'll be right back.

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That's Organifi, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com slash Deloney or use code Deloney at checkout for 20% off. All right, let's go to Tallahassee, Florida and talk to Callie. Hey, Callie, what's up? Hey, how are you doing? I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for taking my call. Of course, thanks for calling. How can I help? I have a question about boundaries and my 13-year-old daughter. Yeah, I think you've called the wrong show. You have to call. Call Callie. I'll give you her cell number.

You'll one day have a 13-year-old daughter, so let's practice on May 1st. I've got one in the chute. She's coming, and whoa. Yeah.

All right, go for it. Her dad and I got a divorce when she was six. And with that, coincidentally, it was because obviously boundaries were crossed. So we already have boundary struggles from the beginning with her. Let me clarify real quick. Boundaries, you called about boundaries with her, but then you just said boundaries are crossed. Did your husband do something? Right.

Yeah, yeah, he did. And so... With her? No, no, no. No. But I do... I don't really know how to say this. We got a divorce because I'm pretty sure he was grooming a 14-year-old. Okay. And I was like, no. Okay.

Okay. So did he cheat on you or you just saw the behaviors coming up? Okay. No. Yeah, he did. That was like, yeah, it was a whole, that's another question, Tom. Okay. Well, it provides some context here and I just want to make sure I've got all my ducks in a row. Okay. So husband's not a good man at all. Um, and then y'all got a divorce when she was six.

Yes. Okay. And her younger sister was three. Okay. And so, anyway, through that, I went through very intensive therapy. I put her in therapy. And we have... I've since remarried. Her dad has since remarried. And now that we are...

Moving forward, I feel like most days I'm raising a feral cat instead of a happy puppy that she used to be, which I know is developmentally normal. And I try to let natural consequences be the best teacher. And I'm trying, well, she used to really like, I like, hate's a strong word, but I felt like she hated me because she blamed me for a lot of things. But through her growing up and having the proper cognitive development that all the professionals

professionals kept telling me what's coming just to hang on and it finally showed up and I appreciate it. She found the plot holes in the story and put things together on her own and now we're really close so just something simple like if me or her stepdad asked her to do something like unload the dishwasher. That's her one job in the house all the time. Everybody in the house knows that's

what she does. And you can be like, Hey, go, you know, and pass and just unload the dishwasher. And then I move on to the three siblings in the house and, you know, move on the day and it's just still not done. And she's like, Oh, I forgot. And then, so I have to literally get her back in there and be like, okay, you've got to do this. And I'm like, in my mind, I'm going, she's 13. I don't understand. Like you understand the words coming out of my mouth. Let's just use that as an example. Okay. Hey, you got one job, like your role, this house doesn't work without you.

You got one job, and that's to empty the dishwasher. And the way you just described it to me is that her 13-year-oldness understands that if she doesn't empty the dishwasher, at some point, mom will come find her, and mom will take her in and say, you didn't do the dishwasher. I know you can hear me. Or like Chris Tucker, like, do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth, right? And like, you're going to do the dishwasher. And then she goes, and she empties the dishwasher. Is that fair? Yeah.

Or you get frustrated and you just do it yourself because you're trying to clean the kitchen. I actually do not do that. It will sit there until she comes and does it. Okay. So, I don't know. Maybe I should. This is a boundary question. But I feel like that's her one job that's constant. I don't think she thinks that's her one job. I think she thinks her one job is to make sure mom is okay. And she knows how to do that. And this other thing is, whatever.

I think she innately knows she has a deeper job, and that's to make sure that mom knows that she's okay. She thinks she has to protect me because her dad is really nasty when it comes to me, and she goes over there every other weekend. Why in the world? Why in bloody hell is she still going to that man's house? Because legally, I mean, I went to the authorities, and the system that we live in, even what I have, they're like, yeah, that's creepy, but you can't do anything about it.

The only thing that matters is what your nervous system communicates to her when y'all are together. And if she gets, if you start to drive her over to dad's house or your stepdad does, and she feels that car filled with electricity, what she is internalizing in her guts is they're scared to death for me. A, they don't think I can handle this. And B, they're not okay.

And 13-year-olds learn real quick how to make mom and dad feel okay. If they have to lie to them, if they have to, whatever. They understand it's my job. And when you come unhinged, when she doesn't do her one freaking job, which is so little responsibility for a 13-year-old, by the way. But if you come unglued or just, oh my gosh, you have one job.

What she knows is this person is not stable or as Dr. Kennedy called sturdy enough to anchor into. I'm going to find other things, other people, other whatever to anchor, even myself, I'll anchor into me. My relationship with my daughter and her behavior as a six, seven, and eight-year-old, it transformed when I went to counseling, when I went and saw a trauma therapist and dealt with me.

because my six-year-old and five-year-old and four-year-old and eight-year-old were trying to navigate a nuclear reactor inside my chest and she couldn't do it she's too small she didn't have the strength to do that so she tried to do it with defiance she tried to do it with anger she tried to do it rage she tried to do it any number of ways to get to her dad but it was my issues and so it's so weird when i tell parents in your situation who desperately love their kids

And you're doing all the right external things. You're giving the kid responsibility. You're not letting him talk back. You're having the right conversations. But the thing you're avoiding is dealing with that hole inside your chest. And that kid is trying to fill it all day, every day. So let's move her to the side for a second. Callie, how are you? Well, I thought I was okay, but it's because I've had to be. There you go. Get underneath the have to be. How are you?

Probably tired would be the best word. Tell me about that. I am the anchor of my home, for sure. What about your husband? It's something we're working on, but he definitely regulates off of me. Okay.

I'm just a very strong personality, and I'm actually another call, seriously, but I'm working on being more submissive. I just walked out a huge one this past week. Even the kids got to see it. I do understand this about myself.

I do understand I'm a control freak-ish, kind of, because my old life was blown up in my community and my home and everything but my car keys and my kids, and they were even half taken from me, was taken from me by choices I did not get to have a part of or stay in. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on. I want you to sit right there. Okay. I try to sit here, but I don't know what to do with it. I know. Your shoulders are up around your ears right now. Drop them as low as you can. Okay.

That is so creepy. How did you know that? Because I can hear it. Drop them, okay? Okay. Now, I want you to go all the way back to the moment the attorney said the divorce is final, but you just lost half. Okay. No, don't do that. Sit in it. Put your fist in your chest and tell me what it feels like. Where is it in your body right now? Where my hand's at.

When you're sitting there saying, no, no, no, no, this guy is cheating on me. He's grooming a child. He's a horrible person. And your attorney says, hey, you're free, but you got to give up half. Is that your chest? Mm-hmm. What you did that day was right. You built a concrete fortress around yourself because that bastard took half. But more than that, he took everything from inside of you. That's accurate. And you built concrete.

And that concrete allowed your kids to have something to anchor into, allowed this new husband to have something to anchor into. But inside, there's a 28-year-old woman with her face between her knees, with her arms around her shins, sobbing. It keeps having to get up and go again. It keeps having to go again. And until you let that woman stand up and walk out of this concrete prison you've made for her, your kids are going to be banging their head against that concrete trying to get to their mom's heart.

Your husband's not going to do a damn thing because he doesn't have to. You have enough concrete in you for a foundation of a six-bedroom house he can sleep in. I don't even know if it's an act of submission. I don't even like that word in this particular context. I think it's an act of together. It's vulnerability. It's, hey, I got married again, and that means I give you the opportunity to hurt me again like that other guy did. Please don't. And everything in your body says don't do that. Is that fair? Yes.

Exhale for me. You're not breathing. No, I'm not. Exhale. Okay. Okay. Take one more real deep one. And he wasn't the first one, was he? No, but it wasn't marriage, you know, like just... Stop. Well, there's a difference, you know. There is. But listen, you've got like a little Russian doll of...

decreasing of women and children, little girls inside your body that go layers and layers and layers. And you are doing a great job of protecting them because they got hurt bad. And you had bills to pay, you have mouths to feed, and you've done a great job protecting them. But that electricity, that's what your daughter feels. And she will not participate because she loves you to the moon and back. She will not participate in further hurting you.

And you would think, well, then why don't you just empty the dishwasher? Some kids do. And that's why they say straight A's can be a trauma response too. Sometimes kids get exhausted and forget things and stumble over things and don't want to do things. They get exhausted trying to hold their moms and dads up because they love them too. And none of this, by the way, is conscious. And so the challenge I want to put before you is this. Can you hear me?

Love and honor and cheer you right now for who you are and who you've become because you had to be. Okay. Okay? I'm proud of you. And you have a history of doing the next scary, courageous, brave, right thing, don't you? I would say so. I think so. And so I want you to see the next courageous, right, scary, hard thing is to begin freeing 6-year-old you and 14-year-old you and 22-year-old you.

Let them go, man. And unwind that knot that's in your chest. Then you can get to emptying the dishwasher kind of stuff.

I guess I just don't know how to unwind it because the only therapy or, I mean, I did have six months of intensive because the company that my ex worked for actually paid for it for me because it was such a bad situation. So I was very grateful for that. But then with the way insurance is working and stuff, I'm paying out of pocket for both of those girls because I have four kids, but two are with me.

my ex. So they're both in therapy for different reasons and I've kept them in it because if I feel like that's the next right thing, you would say, just in case something ever does come out. The next right thing is you. Yes. Yes. I agree with that. I'll have to figure out how to maneuver some finances to do that. Check with your kid's counselor and ask if it's okay to go to every other session because you're going to go

Finally let those women go and if you went to an intensive where you talked about it and you talked about it and you talked about it But she didn't go practice it. That's the next move. What is proud? What is practicing it look like here's what it looks like I say this ad nauseum on the show I want you to write 23 year old you a letter and say I'm sorry I

Because you still have guilt that you had kids with this guy. You still have guilt that you had kids in that house where this was going on. You have guilt that you didn't reach out to this other 14-year-old girl and protect her too. You've got guilt everywhere. Let that girl, let that woman go. You have guilt for yourself that how in the world could I be so untrustworthy that I got in a relationship with this dude? Is that fair? Yeah. Okay. You got to open your hands to that. I want to let it roll.

I think probably why I struggle with that so much is because seriously, like,

It was almost like a midlife crisis, like stuff started showing up that had never been seen before in our over-decade marriage. And it was so bizarre and just so, like it was a shock to everybody. And it was such a public ordeal. It was a very public situation. And it was just strange. And so I'm thankful she was younger. It was strange, but it was also shameful and embarrassing and infuriating. All those things.

Yes. I went dark. I deleted everything, and I even come back with different names that people can't find me. There you go. You know why? Because you had to. Go reclaim your name. Go reclaim who you were. This is a call about empowerment. You're trying to figure out ways to submit. That's not what I want you to do. I want you to reach your hand out and metaphorically pull those women up and say, go. I want you to pull those little kids up and say, go.

Well, probably that makes sense for my number four that I didn't ask because my daughter is very, like, not normal for a 13-year-old girl. I don't think she's very, like, clingy, like, literally will crawl up in my lap if I'm sitting in a chair and just, you know, won't meet a love owner like I do her little two-year-old brother, you know. And she calls me bestie, and she'll be calling, she'll be like, hey, girl, and I'm like, I'm your mama. I know, I know, but listen, that just further confirms everything I've been saying.

Yes, I know that's what I'm saying. But like, can a letter still call me that? You called her. No, no, no, no, no. It's not about the words. It's not about the words. Okay. I have a dog that is part lab, part Australian Shepherd, a very attuned dog. On the few days in the last 10 years when I've come home sobbing because something just broke me, that dog comes and lays its head on my lap. She's a work dog, but she knows she can't do her work unless I'm okay.

We often think when a kid gets clingy that it's for them. I quit clinging and sometimes that clinging is a measurement It's for us and they learn I can turn the thermostat in this house down by getting close There's a trauma response called fight and there's one called freeze and there's also one called fawn I'm gonna nuzzle really really close and

And sometimes it's sexual when there's like an abusive romantic partner. But kids can nuzzle up too. The safest place is right up close. Do you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. I do. Here's what I want you to hear me say. That 13-year-old little girl of yours knows that you're worth being loved too. I need Callie to believe that.

It's like I say I do, but I'm like, well, am I living like I do? Because that's different. That's very, very different. You're exactly right. You got the right words. And that's where moving forward, I want you to go figure out the money part. And if I want you to say to your husband and say, I need you to go work a bunch of new Uber shifts and you do take on some overtime because I'm going to go get well. And by the way, this is not forever. It's just not. But it is intense.

And intensive is not just talking about it and talking about it. It is practicing with coherence breathing exercises. It's practicing with journaling. It's practicing getting in a room with other friends who are women and saying, here's what my body's doing this week. How are you guys? It's getting some sort of faith practice, getting some sort of exercise practice. It is going to meet with a physician if you need to. It's beginning to live out

It's writing letters to your younger selves and saying, hey, you're okay. This was never your fault. This is never your fault. Go be free. It's writing a letter to your future self and saying, hey, here's the home we're going to have. It's going to be warm and full of laughter and full of joy. And my kids are going to have a tough road because their dad was a terrible human being. It's just going to be tough. But they're always going to know that there's warmth and safety here.

So that that 18-year-old curls up in your lap because you feel safe, not because that's how they've figured out how to turn the energy in the room down. Kids almost always, not always, but almost, they absorb the tension in their homes. They absorb the tension in the closest adult relationships that they have.

And so if our kids are tuning forks, moms and dads, and this is me, I'm going first in line here. We got to look in the mirror and say, okay, I think I'm all right. I'm gonna go sit down and start talking. I'm gonna ask a friend. I'm gonna ask a loved one. I'm gonna ask people that I trust adults and say, do you feel it on me? And often they'll go, oh yeah, totally. I'm gonna go do that work. I'm gonna go do that work.

And check with your kids' counselors. If they've been going regularly for month after month, year after year, now you're doing it just in anticipation of some future maybe, then ask, hey, is it okay if we back off and go every other week, go once or twice a month now for the next few months because I'm going to take that money and I'm going to go get the help I need. Check out that. Cut back on eating out. Do whatever you got to do. I'm so grateful for the call, Callie. Your bravery is going to help a whole bunch of men and women out there listening. But I want you to decide you're worth it.

going to get well, and you're going to work on practicing dropping your shoulders inside your own house. Thank you so much for the call, my sister. Thank you. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes and masks. And if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going as Fight Club era Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body and same body 5%, whatever. But listen, it's costume season. And let's be honest,

A lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We even do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst. If you feel like you are stuck hiding your true self, if you don't feel like you can live or know how to live an authentic life, I want you to consider talking with a therapist.

Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept every part of yourself and you can learn how to deal with reality, learn how to be honest with yourself and learn how to take off the mask and the costume so you can live an honest, authentic life.

costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, try calling my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you get matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost.

Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, let's go to, I was going to say Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, and talk to Liz. Hey, Liz, what's up?

Hey, John, I'm so excited to talk to you and I'm nervous at the same time. I'm excited and I'm also nervous. I want to do a good job. All right, so we'll jump together. Ready? Okay, sounds good. So my question for you is, how do I determine if it's the right time for me to start looking for a new job? Do you want to get a new job? Yes, I do. Okay, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. That's it. Look for a new job.

Does that make sense? Like, uh, we've put so much, go ahead and talk and then we'll loop back.

Okay. Well, so a couple of things. So I've been at my job for five years. I like what I do. I'm 56 years old, but I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with my boss and the direction that he's taking the company. At the same time, I've been in therapy the last two and a half years, healing lifelong anxiety and just trying to determine, you

you know, am I ready for, am I ready to, you know, do something new and maybe the stress that's involved with that? Yeah. Um, as far as, as far as why I'm wanting to, um, to look for another job or I guess what, what's frustrating me, um, I'm the head of the finance department and, um, I'm

I'm just getting frustrated with the lack of leadership that my boss has. And I'm seeing things that make me concerned for how long the company is going to be in existence. And, you know, five years from now, I'm going to be 60 years old. And do I want to be looking for another job at that time? So part of healing from anxiety is a reclamation of the nerd word is autonomy, agency. I'm in the driver's seat of my own life.

And for millions and millions of people, the thought of being in the driver's seat of their own life is terrifying because for their whole life, people have told them you're too stupid to drive. You can't drive. They've hit them when they were driving. They've cheated on them when they were driving. They just don't trust themselves behind the wheel. So after two and a half years of counseling and therapy and really hard work, I'm so proud of you, man. Let me ask you. Thank you. You are smart enough intellectually to

and emotionally stable enough to be the head of finances at a company. You know, because you're wise, that's different than intellectually smart. You're wise. You know that this thing is being led poorly and you are watching this car veer off the road into oncoming traffic. And so my question for you is not, should you go get another job? You know, the answer to that is yes. The deeper question I want you to ask is after all of this work and after all this time and after all this external validation,

Why don't you trust Liz to go get a new job? Do you think you're too old? Right now, no. Okay. Right now, no. Why don't you trust yourself? That's a great question. I thought I had it all figured out, but you just hit something. Probably all the reasons I'm in therapy. Okay. Your knuckleheaded, can't lead boss, he trusts you.

Yeah. The company that's fallen off a cliff, they trust you. The only person that doesn't trust you in this moment is you. Yeah. I guess if you get nothing off this call, I think you're worthy of being trusted. I think you're trustworthy. Yeah, you're right. I'm looking for external reasons to make the decision. Well, you've already got them.

You're not even looking for external reasons anymore. I'm looking for you to tell me that. But you're looking for reasons to discount you. That's what I'm interested in. Because you know, the numbers tell you, the leadership trajectory tells you, you know. But every time you begin to feel that, oh my gosh, this company is going to go away and I'm going to be 60 and unemployed. That's not a good position to be in.

Or AI is taking over everything. Are they just going to replace me in two years with a robot who can run my reports for me? Like you're smart, you know. Yet every time you raise one of those internal questions or you see it or you read about it or you have a colleague who brings it up, the first thing your body does is shut you down because it doesn't trust you. Why? I think there's just that voice in my head that just says, you're not smart enough. You're not good enough.

So one of the most important tools and strategies I can give somebody is to carry around a small notebook. If you are watching this on YouTube, I'm holding mine up right here. I've got it on my desk right now, but it's where I write the stories that pop up in my head. And then I challenge them with one simple question. Is this true? And then I follow that with one more simple question. Can I do anything about this? Am I worried about the world imploding after this election?

If I'm honest, the answer is yes. And can I do anything about that? Nope. I drop my shoulders and I'm going to the next thing because I can't. See what I'm saying? Yeah. But I need you to see the amazing woman that I'm talking to like I do. I've been only talking to you for what, three or four minutes? Yeah. You have intelligence and wisdom, which is a rare combo these days. Yeah. You know how to run an Excel sheet and a pivot table and you can see that the end of the road is coming.

And can we say something else? I tend to be kind of catastrophic in my anxiousness. Even if the end of the road's not coming, you also have permission to say, you just are a terrible boss. I don't want to work for you. You get to say that too. Yeah. What do you want to go do? I like the work that I do. What is it? I like accounting. Okay. Yeah, I enjoy leading people. I enjoy leading a team, being part of a team.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you one of those strange accountants that knows how to do numbers and humans? I do. I do. I've been told I'm weird because I'm happy and not nerdy. Good God almighty. There's going to be a line of people out there trying to hire you. Yeah. And can I tell you when you go for a job interview and they kind of look you over and you're a smart enough woman to know when you're getting judged just externally, you can smile real big and say, my superpowers. I look like a young grandma. Yeah.

And yet I can sit with any CFO and any president and talk numbers. Yeah. I used to tell people my superpower was I was multilingual, but I only spoke English. And I could speak CFO, and I could speak 18-year-old, and I could speak parent, and I could also speak president. You can do that too, I can tell. Yeah. Thank you. Will you do me one big honor? Absolutely. Will you write into the show, write in directly to Kelly or to Taylor and let us know when you get this new awesome job? I will. I will.

I will. Thank you for the call, sister. Can't wait to get that email about your new gig. It's going to be rad. We'll celebrate with you. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. Oh, great. This is an election year. Everyone's going to be mad and yelling at everyone, and no one's trying to solve anything, but everybody's in. Listen.

I can't control them, but I can control me. And I know that the more chaotic it gets out there, the more important it is for me to do whatever it takes to prioritize peace and to prioritize my spiritual life. And that's why I want to tell you about Hallow.

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And right now, Howl has a new prayer challenge going through the classic work, Mere Christianity by the great C.S. Lewis. It's a fantastic introduction and a rousing conversation about the Christian faith. So if you're curious about Christianity or you just want to better understand your faith, this is a great time to join. And it's also kind of cool that Bear Grylls, the survival guy, will be one of the guides of this challenge.

And yes, thankfully, Hallow is going to have some special prayers and meditations to help us all get through the election season. Thank God. So look for that. I use Hallow every single day and I want you to try it out. Download the Hallow app and head over to hallow.com to get three months for free. That's three free months at hallow.com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. Kelly, am I the problem?

All right. So this is from Lacey, and she says, Hi, John. Big shout out to you and your team for being awesome. I can't thank you enough for the invaluable support you guys provide through this show. Hashtag John for president. Hashtag Kelly for VP. No, that wouldn't go great. No interest in that whatsoever. That wouldn't be good. No. Anyway, politics aside. I'd be a great president. You wouldn't be a good VP because you would want to be president too. Yeah, you'd have to watch your back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, you'd have a lot of like late night meetings with the CIA that I wouldn't sleep well. I will say nothing more. Culpable deniability, I believe we call that. I know. And you've listened to way too many murder podcasts. They'll never find you. No. Anywho, on with the email. Not in for this. Co-presidents, maybe. But all right, go ahead. Okay.

She says, I'm the only child of a single mom and my whole life has been influenced by her directly or indirectly. She's a bit of a quote unquote gypsy and I've observed a pattern of instability in her choices and behavior throughout the years. So this is kind of long, so I'm paraphrasing some of this. Reflecting on my upbringing, I've realized how much this dynamic has affected me. Every now and then she likes to throw me a curve ball and I don't know how to handle. And here's one.

She has decided to move to my city, and I feel like she expects me to help her get situated. My main issue with that is, despite having stability in the current place she's living, she's choosing to move to be close to me without having sufficient resources to support herself. I'm afraid that this situation will end, as it has done several times in the past, with her relocating if things don't go as planned.

For this reason, I have explicitly communicated to her that I will only provide moral support and cannot assist her with housing, job, or her financial needs. She is hurt by my lack of support and, frankly, my disinterest in her plans. Now I can't shake the guilt because she's in her 60s and, despite being in good health, really could use some assistance. Am I the problem for being reluctant to help my mom? I don't think this is a very nice question that you gave me, Kelly. Um...

I'm going to give a very unpopular answer. And probably my answer has evolved on this particular topic more than any other topic. Are you ready? It's twofold. And I'm going to name drop here, but rest assured, there was no one talking to me. This was me eavesdropping, okay? And maybe I've talked about it on the show. I don't think I have. I was at an event. I was speaking at John Maxwell's event last year. And also on that bill was Deion Sanders.

And so Dion comes walking backstage and we didn't even exchange eye contact. So make no mistake. He wasn't like, Hey, what's up? There was none of that. Um, but I was, there's a table and we're all sitting at this table and Dion was standing up talking to a group next to him and it wasn't a showy thing. And it wasn't like a, yeah, it wasn't that it was just a regular conversation. And I heard Dion say something that I exhaled and I couldn't believe that it just was like, you're exactly right.

He said, and this is me paraphrasing, but I'm going to quote him. And I know that doesn't sound right, but in my head, I'm confident of what the quote is. In reality, it probably wasn't this stable. It was, every day I get up and I thank God that I have found myself in a position to take care of my mom.

And for the last 20 years, my mom was a stay-at-home mom. My dad was a policeman and then a minister. And I didn't realize. And then my mom's going to become a professor. She's a literature professor, which is the lowest on the totem pole, right, financially speaking, at a university. I didn't realize how much I had built into my life this, ugh, I'm going to have to take care of whatever, whatever. That was the first time. And I called a couple of my buddies. That was the first time I exhaled, and I thought, ugh.

No, no, no. I get to, Holy smokes. I get to take care of my parents in their old age. Now taking care of them doesn't mean that I cater to every whim. And that doesn't mean that I put myself at risk by taking out loans. I can't afford and propping up lifestyles that aren't real. Like that's not what I'm saying at all. Um, but there's an exhale like, no, I'm going to help. I'll help out.

We'll see if we can figure this thing out. And I have to say, no, I can't afford this particular home or you can't move in here because I only have this many. My mom has a dog that she just love, love, love, loves. And I have three dogs and they're inside now in our new house. And I said, hey, when you come stay, you can't bring a fourth. I can't, I can't. It's too much. And she's like, well, I love my dog. And I was like, I know, but I can't. So the boundaries are okay. But that boundary came after an invitation. I hope you'll come and stay as long as you want.

And it goes back to that conversation I heard Mr. Sanders say, like, I get to. And so my challenge would be to a kid who's been run over, over and over and over. What does it look like to say, no, I get to, and reframe it that way?

And I know that that is an unpopular sentiment like, they didn't plan that. I know, but that's my mom. That's my dad. And so it's more about, okay, I get to. I've had a successful run in business, et cetera, et cetera. So what does that mean and what are the boundaries I got to draw there? You might end up in the same place. Drawing boundaries, I just can't help you.

It sounded like in that call, I'm tired of helping. I'm tired of showing up. I'm tired of these things and I don't want to do it anymore. And then I would challenge that attitude. That's your mom. Keep showing back up even when it's hard. And it doesn't mean you have to pay for everything. But that's what I got to say about that right now. And I might change my mind on that in six months, but that's where I'm at right now. It's hard and it's frustrating and it's challenging. And it's your mom. And maybe you're one of the fortunate ones that get to have the opportunity to help.

Maybe just something to think about. I can just imagine people listening to their podcast right now. Just be like, you suck. No, I'm just kind of over the throw everything away. Cause mom and dad didn't do it perfectly. I'm just kind of done with that. I want my kids to be kids.