I Think My Coworkers Are Having an Affair
54:43 Share

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Two of my coworkers have been kind of engaging in an inappropriate relationship. They go to lunch together. They take walks at lunch together. They're dieting together. They're going on personal errands together. Sometimes even like coming in to work on the weekends together. Oh, yeah. What up? What up? How we doing? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Man, I'm glad you're here.

Makes me feel not so alone. Actually, I'm not alone at all. There's like 14 people in the studio right over there. Seems like it's extra full of people. What's all these people doing back there, Kelly? Well, we have some people shadowing different jobs, learning how to do different things, and everybody just wants to be here because we're the best.

I think America agrees with you. I think so. They don't. But I hear if you just say America agrees with you about anything, you just keep saying it. It becomes truth. Hey, on this show, we talk about your marriage, your dating life, your kids, your in-laws, whatever you got going on in your life.

especially your mental health, your emotional health, your relationships. What have you got going on? Here's my promise. I'm going to sit with you and we're going to figure it out. And if you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you. Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. All right, let's roll out, roll out to St. Louis and talk to sweet Caroline. What's up, Caroline?

Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for having me on the show. Of course. What's going on? Yeah, so I am calling in for some advice about a situation at work that's been causing me a lot of anxiety, honestly. Okay. I have been noticing that two of my coworkers have been

kind of engaging in an inappropriate relationship that's been developing. One is my boss who is married and one is my fellow coworker who is not. And I am just seeking advice on what is my role as kind of a bystander in addressing the situation or calling it out.

Hmm. I think, just coming to mind, I think two things play out here. Number one, what is your, what is the, what I would say, a moral ethos of where you work, right? So are you working at a church? Are you working at a place that puts their values on the wall and says, this is who we are? Or...

I've worked at places where everybody's hooking up with everybody, right? And so there's that. The second one is what's your personal relationship with these two, with their extended family? Are these your friends? Are these people that have given you permission to speak into their life? And I got a third one. Do you want to work around this crap? That's the third one. So often people like to let their values be heard, but they don't like that letting their values be heard sometimes comes at a cost.

Right. So tell me about like what you have deemed inappropriate.

Is it like you walk in on them totally hooking up or they go to lunch? Like, tell me, tell me what, what you think is inappropriate. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where I think, you know, the advice is needed because what I might think is inappropriate, you know, might not be like they go to lunch together. They take walks at lunch together. They're dieting together. They're going on personal errands together during the work day, um, spending a lot of

Sometimes even like coming in to work on the weekends together. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I do work at a company that is faith-based. It's a public... I'm sorry, it's a private company. We're a corporate America, but we are... Our morals and our values are very important to us at our work. And both people are professing Christians and as am I, and I have developed a close personal relationship with them. And so that's why I think it's been...

bothering me as much as it has. Um, is this coworker friend of yours is he or she, um, report up to the person they're with? Yes. Okay. That, I mean, that, that to me is anytime a boss is hooking up with, um, or way too close with one of the people that report up to them. Um,

Yeah, I mean, that just feels gross working in that environment. I get that. Or it makes you like, hey, if you're going to be a person who doesn't have integrity with your marriage, where are other areas you don't have integrity in your life? Because there's a really famous study after the social science study after the Ashley Madison leak that showed there was a correlation between

people who were cheating on their spouse and people who had ethics violations filed against them. And so it bears out in the data. Here's the biggest deal of all the things you've said to me. These are your friends. And before I went throwing grenades, I would probably pull my friend aside and say, Hey dude, here's what I'm seeing. Like tell me what's going on. Yeah. Yeah.

And nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing's going on. What's the matter with you? I would never want to just be like, all right, cool. That's, this is just kind of what it looks like. And maybe other people in the office are talking about it and I'm your friend and I just need you to know, here's the, here's the visual here. Yeah. I think I've, I've been, I've almost done that so many times, but I've been afraid of, you know, losing that friendship, losing that relationship in the case that I'm wrong. Um, if someone is truly a friend,

Yeah. And you have a booger in your nose and you let them know they're really grateful. Yeah. So if they're truly your friend and you pull them aside and say, dude, something doesn't look right. Yeah. And either something's going on in your life that you're over your head in something or you're making some just conscious decisions to live a different life. Cool. They're going to go, you're right.

Or they're going to go, oh my gosh, nothing is happening. But yeah, the way you just said that, oh my gosh, this looks awful. And I need to be more conscious of that, right? But it's going to be something out of gratitude. If they're not really your friend, they're going to burn you to the ground for calling out them acting stupid, right? Acting the fool. So where I'm nervous to do anything beyond that is, like you mentioned, um,

I don't know, in certain at certain jobs in certain places, it would have been super weird for me to look at somebody and say, I'm not I'm not going to go grab lunch with you because you're a woman. That would be strange or us for all going out. So that would be weird. And so I don't want to say this behavior is wrong. This behavior is wrong. This behavior is wrong. I will say, yeah, man, there's you can find yourself in some slippery slopes.

Right. And so, and I've been there too. So I, I, I think the biggest thing is, is you have a relationship, a personal relationship with them. And I would tell your coworker, probably not my boss. That's probably not where I would start unless you're super close to your boss. But I would start with my coworker and say, like, let's go out and have a hard conversation. Here's what I'm seeing. Is everything okay? Yeah. And here she might tell you, dude, I'm trapped. I'm trapped. I don't know what to do. I'm stuck in this deal. Boss is kind of predatory. Like, you don't know what you're going to hear on that side of it.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And if your boss's supervisor knew that he was potentially sleeping with one of his employees, would that cost him his job? Yes. Okay. Well, at some point, you got to make that call too. Mm-hmm. I just decided life's too short and I want to work in a place where I think the leader's got integrity. I don't always have to agree with them.

Yeah. There's things I dramatically disagree with with my leaders right now when it comes to certain issues. But when it comes to, do I trust that person? Implicitly, with everything I got. Trust, trust, trust. And that's just a core value for me. And if they look at you and call you stupid and they isolate you, then you can go up the HR chain. You can find a new job. But it doesn't sound like you're sleeping well. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I threw a lot at you. What are you thinking about at all? Yeah. No, I think it's just, it's more so confirmed that I need to have that conversation because I definitely don't want to, you know, gossip about it with other people. You know, I've, I know the right thing to do is to go directly to that person first. And I think I just need to get over the fear of man and the fear of having that hard conversation. And I do think we are close enough that it would be

received well, you know, when delivered in the right way. So that's awesome. Well, good for you. Will you let me know how that conversation goes? Yeah, definitely. Awesome. Here's one last tip. Yeah. As little as possible. Let me say it. I was about to say it in the double reverse negative. So I'll say it in a more direct way. Use the word I as much as possible, not the word you.

If you sit down at a table and you look across the table at your friend and you say, you've been doing this and you've been doing this, you've been doing this, you've just started a fight. Yeah. If you sit down and say, I'm worried about my friend and I'm seeing this and I want your world to have peace in it and I want you to be okay. And it feels to me like the boss is preying on you. Um,

and using his position of power to put you in a situation you might not want to be in. Like, I would start it that way because now you're talking about I'm seeing this and I is often an invitation. It's not an accusation. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. That's good. All right. Let me know how it goes. Thank you. Thank you for being a person of character and thank you for being a person who, I don't know, I just really prefer the personal conversation more than the HR grenade. Yeah. Yeah.

Definitely. I just think there's a right way to handle these things. And unfortunately, in our day and age, the right way to handle things sometimes costs us such stuff. And I hate that, but that's the world we're in. I'd much rather be able to sleep at night, right? Right. Awesome. Well, good for you, Caroline. Sweet, sweet Caroline. Best of luck to you. Let me know how that conversation goes. We'll be thinking about you. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

So my wife and I were meeting the other day about the back-to-school madness that is about to be on us. We've got my travel schedule, her work schedule, our daughter's new school and clothes and forms to fill out and all these online portals and my son's sports schedule and he's got to have shoes every two weeks because his feet won't stop growing and how are we going to pay for all this and on and on and on.

And when we step back and look at our schedule, it's so packed and we haven't even put in the things like exercise, date nights, counseling appointments, church and holiday trips and big home projects. And these are the things that make life worth living. And I listened to y'all. This is your life too. And here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, my family and my work, I have to begin with the things that matter most and the things that keep me well and whole so I can wade into the chaos and be sturdy and present and strong.

you too. So as you're planning your upcoming end of summer and fall plans, make sure you don't skip date nights, don't skip regular exercise, and don't skip your regular therapy appointments. Yes, therapy can be hard work, but can also help make the rest of your life possible.

When it comes to therapy, I want you to consider calling the team at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

With a good therapist, you can learn things like positive coping skills, how to set boundaries, how to deal with all the chaos going on in your life, and how to be the best version of yourself. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day. Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney.

All right, we're back. All right, we just were talking and talking, so we just off air, so Kelly and I need to have this on air. So, yeah, that whole thing, that last conversation was just made me feel weird. Yeah, I can see going to someone that's my equal, my teammate, and saying, hey, here's kind of the rumor that's going around. Here's what this looks like, because maybe you're not aware, but going to your boss, that's a bold step. Well, I mean, that's the nuclear option, right? Yeah, because if it's not happening...

That relationship is super weird now. Yeah. And I was saying off air, there's been one person that I can remember over 20 years when I went and sat down and said, no, there's two. There's been actually two. When I sat down with that person and said, you can't be on my team.

And we were on an org chart equal. I had no leadership over this person. And so what I was saying was, I'm drawing a line here. And the things that were happening were so egregious. And there's been situations that I have left. I have left.

Like I'm not going to work in this environment. I'm not burning anybody to the ground, but this is going to burn down and I'm not going to be a part of this, right? Yeah, and I think that's the only thing you can do is you have to decide if you can deal with it or not. And if you can't, then you need to leave. But you don't have – you can't speak into someone else's life necessarily like that. Yeah. Especially when you don't know. That's the big thing you don't know and that I –

I'm constantly reminded of that Brene Brown quote, like, whatever you're looking for in the world, you're sure to find. And if you're like, I think there's something going on with them, every time you're going to miss the 999 times they're nowhere near each other. But you're going to see that one time and they're laughing together and you're going to be like, see? And there's another data point for the story you're looking for to find. And so I'm always just go talk to the person, go talk to the person. And if they say nothing's going on and you're crazy,

Give that story a spin for a while. And if you're still uncomfortable, then you have different choices to make. But the only times I've ever come to that, like I need to go tattle on somebody is me sitting across the table and looking at him saying, you have a choice to make here because you're not working with me anymore. And both times that person has resigned, has called it. No, one person was asked to leave, but it all blew up, right? And the other person did the thing of integrity and resigned. But that wasn't me guessing. They were really explicit about what was going on.

I don't know. The whole thing just feels weird. By the way, I filed an HR report on you yesterday. It goes into the pile of the many. It's like a Cold War. We've got mutually assured destruction. Yeah. Both of us want to stay employed. Oh, by the way, I think you'll appreciate this. We got a comment that you were perpetuating misogyny.

So did that go right next to the comments from all the men who are like, you treat women so much better than men? Exactly. So I just wanted you to know that you're perpetuating misogyny. So stop doing that. At the end, I don't know what to say. I deleted it. So at the end of the show, we're going to have a dictionary section called, uh, I need you to define perpetuate.

Just kidding. I know what that means. I'm trying to not to be, say something that's going to get me canceled because people are on the internets are so bizarre. Let's go out to Philadelphia where I was born and raised, where the playground I spent most of my day and talk to Jess. Hey, Jess.

Hi, how are you? I was good until Kelly told me I'm perpetuating misogyny, but here we go. So what's up? All right. So my question is, how do I talk to my five-year-old about lying while still making him feel like he can come to me and be believed and heard about anything that might be causing him problems?

Oh, okay. While you're telling me the story, I'm going to look something up because a buddy of mine just texted me about this. All right. Keep going. Keep going. Yeah. So as a little background, um, this is amazing. I'm so excited about this. What, how cool is this? Okay. Go for it. As yeah, as a little background, I work from home and my kids are mostly my grandparents. Um, so I always have a little bit of a pulse of what's going on in the house, how things are being handled, everybody's mood, um,

So I am lucky. I know that when he comes to me that he's safe and he's not being hurt. So I don't know how to handle it when he comes to me and says...

you know, Oh mom, no one's being nice to me. You know, my little sister bit me and, uh, you know, grandma punched me or something wild like that. That is, I know because I'm lucky and I have the background that it's clearly coming from his active imagination, but I'm just, uh, not sure how to handle that and make him feel heard. And like, if he ever does have a big issue or, you know, God forbid someone in authority is not treating him well, that he can come to me and be believed.

But also teach him that he can't do that. Well, so now you've got complicated things, Jess. Anytime a kid tells me somebody's hurting them, somebody's touching them inappropriately, somebody's hitting them, especially an adult, I always want the first words out of my mouth to be, I believe you. Right. If it is grandma's attacking her dragon on me,

Well, even then that might be, um, here's where I always go with it. Um, I believe you tell me more about that. Right. And then I'm going to ask for some more specifics. And then, um, very similar to how I respond with adults and college students when it comes to like a suicidal threat, right? Is as your parent, I cannot allow anybody to hit you. And I'm going to have to go sit down with grandma and granddad because this can't happen.

And then there becomes an understanding of a consequence if you tell a story. And then sometimes five-year-olds old enough to begin to grasp what's real and what's not in a more concrete way than like a third or fourth grade. They're not fully there yet, but they're getting there. And there's a couple of books I'm going to recommend to you. That's what just me and my buddy, Dr. Lynn Jennings from the med school there at Tech. We were just texting about this yesterday, two days ago. So I'm going to give you some books that you can read that would be age appropriate for a five-year-old that y'all could read.

but if it comes to physical violence or it comes to sexual inappropriateness, I want to sit down and have some more questions. So when you do that, you said your background lets you know this isn't true. Tell me more about that. Right, right. And that's the thing. And that's because it is, like he said it in that way, that's how I want to respond. I want to respond with, I believe you. But I also, and that's where I'm lucky because I know that in this case,

That wasn't what exactly what happened. Right. But how do you know that? Uh, because I can kind of hear everything that's going on, but, but I still want him to, I still want him to, and it, I mean, it's very, probably very true that his little sister bit him. Um, that's very, very likely true. Um, but give me an example of a, of a lie that's, that's made you go. Well, that's, that's probably the main one that I just used. That's probably the one that was the most, uh, is he lying other places? Um,

He will say things that I can tease out are not entirely accurate. Like, you know, he'll say things like when no one was playing with me and, you know, when I ask more questions, I can understand that it, you know, he didn't feel comfortable asking to join in a certain game or, um,

There was one moment where he was feeling left out, but otherwise things were going okay, that type of thing. Yeah, so often I think when kids put emotional things on the table, it's almost always a skills issue. Meaning we hear that as adults as an emotional, overdramatic, or sensational story. Those kids left me out.

What they are really asking for is how do I get to play with them? And it's a skills issue. Oh, you have to go over there and ask them. You have to say, I would like to play too.

And that's nervous and there's some awkwardness to that and every kid's got different levels of sensitivity. My son would go barreling into that group and my daughter would stand on the periphery for seven months, right? So every kid's differently when it comes to how intense those feelings are. But almost always when a kid is saying, I got left out, they did this, it's a skills issue, right? My daughter, my sister bit me. I want her to get in trouble, but what do I do?

Here's what you do when sister bites, right? So tell me about grandma hitting your kid. How did that story come out? It was the type of thing where I think he came to me because he wanted, you know, he knows I was working and I think he needs a reason. He knows he's not supposed to interrupt, right? So he needed a reason to.

to that would be consequential to interrupt right and have my attention and everything and so i i think that's where it came from um you know i've watched grandma interacts with my three little ones a lot and you know handle things well i can hear like i said i i have a pretty good sense that that was not you know accurate you know maybe she was worst case scenario maybe she you know

pulled him away from little sister if little sister really was going to bite him or something. Um, and he, you know, interpreted it one way, but so at the end of the day, I, like I, like you said, I, I want to make sure that he knows if, if he feels that way ever, he will be believed. Gotcha. Well, and I, I, that would be a great moment. Like if that's just how that played out, that'd be a great moment to say, number one, grandma's job is to make sure both of you are safe.

And she pulled you away from little sister because little sister was hurting you. And that's grandma's job. Show me about this punch and let him re reenact it. Okay. Now that's a good idea. And let him say, Oh, it looks like she just pulled you out of the way. Yeah. Here's a pole and here's a plant. And so we're just, we're teaching him, right? These are just tools and skills. And occasionally this is what a forensic child psychologist will do or forensics kids therapist will do is through play, um,

They will be able to, a kid will retell a story and show things like, oh yeah, that didn't come out of a kid's head. That happened, right? And that's how they get to it because kids can't just articulate everything. But asking them to recreate it and then norming things. Yeah, that's exactly what a grandma is supposed to do if her beloved grandson is getting bit.

Right. Is to pull him out. That's, that's great. That's not a punch. This is a punch. Don't actually hit him, but you know what I mean? And it's just teaching. Here's the difference. Um, there's two books that my, that Dr. Jennings sent me. Um, and we'll link to them in the show notes here. One is called the Berenstain bears and the truth. And these are children's books. These are kid, kid, kid books, Berenstain bears and the truth by Stan and Jan Berenstain. You, we all read Berenstain bear books when we were kids. Um, and there's another one called what if everybody did that?

the follow-up for older kids what if everybody said that by Colleen Madden I've never read any of these books but I pretty much trust anything that dr. Jennings tells me and so she said these are great books for sitting on the kid who is struggling with telling the truth and they're just little learning books that you can read over and over and over again and here's the beautiful thing about children's books same is the book comes some parts are not for touching right

It gives you a conversation that you can point back to if it comes up. Granddad kicked me in the face, mom. And really, it's your child is trying to connect with you because he misses you and he knows this is a way you'll stop looking at the computer and stop working and engage him, right? So he's going to have an incentive to come up with sensational stories because that's what gets you the thing he wants more than anything in the world, and that's your attention, that you can point back to these books and talk

That might be a cool way for y'all to connect over that. Is there a point when working from home, like maybe going to work at a coffee shop or getting with some buddies and renting a small place that you can go to? Yeah, yeah. I think we're getting there. You know, for a long time when I was nursing and everything, it was easier to be at home. But I think, yeah, that might become a...

a more realistic option. Here's one other thing you might want to try. And this worked well in COVID. And I think it's still working well with people who are at home wearing multiple hats, but literally put a hat on. Let him know when I have the yellow hat on, I am working and there can't be any talking. But when I have green hat on, I am mommy. Or I have no hat on, you can come talk to me and hug me anytime.

Right. And it's a big signal of that way. They don't have to test the water. Is she working? Is she going to be interrupted? They just quit banging their head on the boundary because when I got yellow hat on and you can just point to the hat if they comes in and bust into your home office. But I am this right now. Same, I tell the same thing with, with homeschool parents. When you have red hat on your homeschool parent, when you have yellow hat on, you are working from home. When you have no hat on, I'm just dad. Right. And it just helps a young kid be able to differentiate really quick.

Yep. But I do like for every parent out there, I do like the instant response, I believe you. Let's dig more into that. Show me what happened. And if it is about grandma keeps or granddad keeps touching my private parts or granddad or uncle or whatever, that is instant, I believe you. Thank you so much for telling me. And we're not going to ask a bunch of questions then. We're going to hold their hand. We're going to hug them and we're going to call a professional ASAP.

You can begin to imprint some of those stories. It's a whole thing. So if you start doing this tribunal in your house, as mad as you are, or scared as you are, as frustrated as you are, that's something that even in my situation, when I know the right questions to ask, because I'm so close to it, I would call somebody. And I would have that done with a professional. It's just too, there's too much going on there. And one last thing. I know you're in the house, Jess, and so this is less about you.

most of abuse that happens is from somebody that everybody knows, whether it's a step parent, an uncle, a mom or a dad, a grandparent, most physical and emotional and sexual abuse is from somebody that people know. And absolutely without question, the most common response is I thought I, I can't, it's just the sense of guilt. Like I can't believe I just put my kid with so-and-so. And so even with your first default setting is they would never, uh,

I'm telling you right now, they might. They might. I've been in too many of these heartbreaking situations where it's like he would never. I could never imagine he. Parents let their guard down.

And so if you have any inkling in this situation, obviously, Jess, it's different because you're in the same house, you're in the same room. You might even have cameras that you're watching this stuff happen. Like you're right there. But if you ever think, you know, everything's cool and your kid comes home and suddenly their mood changes, suddenly their grades fall off a table. Suddenly they say, so-and-so keeps hitting me or making me uncomfortable or I really, really don't want to be around that person. And they get real clingy and they start weeping really hard. That's where we're going to ask more questions. We're going to ask more questions.

And I'm not going to be less vigilant just because they have a title like uncle or they have a title like brother or sister or they have a title of family member or friend. I'm going to be vigilant. So thank you so much for the call, Jess. That's really important. If you're interested in these books, check them out in the show notes. They're available for really low cost on Amazon. Worth going to check out. We'll be right back.

Let's talk about Organifi. I just got home from a week in the woods with family and friends and a few hundred high school kids at a summer camp. And as you can imagine, I ate camp food for a week, I didn't sleep great, and high schoolers aren't the most hygienic creatures in the world. And now that I'm home...

And now that you're home for whatever you've been doing this summer, and we're both beginning to settle back into the rhythms of the end of summer, start of school, it's critical that both you and me get back into our wellness routines. And for me, Organifi is a cornerstone of my wellness routine.

I blend the red and green powders together almost every morning and I keep talking about them. I love my happy drops and I've revolutionized my sleep with harmony and gold juice medley. I blend them together and drink them down right before bed and I sleep like a baby. Organifi helps me with energy and gut health with my sleep and with my mood.

Here's the deal. I take Organifi every single day. And my friends and my family are always stealing my stuff because it's the best of the best. And if it's good enough for me and my friends and my family, it's worth you trying it out. Go to Organifi.com slash Deloney or use promo code Deloney at checkout. That's Organifi.com, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com slash Deloney. And they're going to hook you up with 20% off everything.

All of it. Invest in yourself with Organifi. All right, let's go out to San Antonio, some of the best food on planet Earth, and talk to Vanessa. Hey, Vanessa, what's up? Hi, how are you? I'm good. How about you? I'm doing okay. A little hot out here. Dude, it's just getting started this summer. Yes, it is. Are y'all going to have another hottest summer of all time? I would say so, yes. Golly, y'all need a break. Y'all need a break. What a mess.

All right, so what's going on, Vanessa? So I am calling to ask, I don't know how to properly interact with my almost ex-husband, set appropriate boundaries, as well as encourage him to, I guess, make more of an effort with our oldest daughter who has some anger and resentment. Can I make a joke? Go ahead.

You could have called me and said, I really need to know just the right spell so that I can defeat Voldemort just like Harry did that one time. That's basically the question you just asked me. Have you filed for divorce? I have. Okay. So it's in process? Yes. And I'm sure he's being just a ray of sunshine and acting like an adult as you'll separate things. He is not. No, he's being a child. Yes.

So would you sit down and ask a seven-year-old to act like an adult? No. No. You don't even engage in that conversation. And so the heartbreaking part of the situation you're in is there's not a lot you can do other than to protect your kids. Okay. And you know how important a relationship with, how old is your daughter? Twelve. Twelve. You know, you've been a 12-year-old little girl. You know how important that relationship is with dad. Yeah.

And it breaks your heart to see him burn it down because he's got an ego and an anger issue. Right. And that's his choice. And I hate that. There's nothing you can do about it. And the more you try to force it, the more it just creates more chaos. How is he avoiding her or not being the dad that he needs to be with her? He, I think he feels...

Which is valid. He feels the anger and the resentment. He sees it on her face. Why doesn't he solve it with love and connection and care? Because in his mind, she doesn't understand the full story. She never will. She's 12. She's not supposed to understand the full story. But he is the type that is proud and stubborn. That makes him a child.

Yes. Yes. So he just, I think he's just given up on trying with her. He's like, it's too far gone now, whatever. That's so gross. That pisses me off, dude. Because what you just said in a very kind way is dad quit on 12 year old girl because 12 year old girl wasn't singing and dancing in a way that makes his precious little heart feel good. And that pisses me off because 12 year old girls need to be 12 year olds. Same with little boys.

And it's the adult's job to act like adults. I'll be ridiculous for a second. If the reason y'all getting divorced is because you hooked up with seven of his friends and he has every reason to despise you and leave you and all that, he still has a responsibility to show up and love that 12-year-old girl as though she's one of the most, if not the most important woman in his life. It doesn't matter what happened to his precious little ego. It's this 12-year-old little girl, man.

I know you know that. I just get mad. I get mad when parents cash out on their kids because they don't even understand. They're not acting right. They're 12. They're 7. They're 17. They're kids. Right. God almighty, I'm sorry. Why are y'all getting divorced? Did you get the brunt end of this too?

Um, so we are getting a divorce because similar, um, everything's about him, what he wants on his time. And when I was completely a hundred percent ready to commit in our marriage, he was not, he wanted to do what he wanted to do when he wanted to do it. And it was very much, um,

I was a yo-yo. I was hazy yo-yo. He would throw me back and forth. He was in the military, so we were overseas. And whenever he didn't want to be in the marriage, he'd just send me home. And then he'd call and say, I can't live without y'all. And I'd go back. And it would be a constant in our life until I finally said, I can't do this anymore. This is not healthy for our children. I can't do this. I deserve more.

And when I finally did that, when I took that stand, he didn't like it. He didn't like that. So, yeah. So basically, I filed for divorce. We've been separated since 2018. He got out of the military in 2021. And he has been nothing but chaos in our life ever.

Why in the world, why has it taken six years to finalize a divorce in the state of Texas? Um, he did not want, um, he didn't, I wasn't, I knew I wasn't at that point. And so I wanted to give my time to heal. He was still overseas and I was like, it's fine. He's gone. He doesn't want to file right now because he doesn't want to do a divorce overseas. I'll give him that. I'm going to heal in the meantime. Okay.

and work on me and the girls. And then when he finally came back, I said, okay, well, you can come around. Possibly we can reconcile now that you're home. And it just got worse. What got worse? Anger, outburst, rage, physical abuse, cheating on you? What got worse? Cheating on me, lies. I lost my dad in 2022.

And I think that was the one and only time that I probably reached out for him in just a moment of, this is my selfish moment, and I just need you to just be quiet and just be here for me, be present. And...

He said some very ugly things and he couldn't just lay it down and be there for me. And I think that's what really broke me and broke me.

Any trust I could have ever had in him, I was like, wow, just in that one moment, you just had to be my person. Even if it was as a friend, as the father of my children, you just needed to do that one thing. And it broke me. Yeah. And I was like, I can't, I can't anymore. This is like beyond over. Yeah. I'm so sorry. Yeah. That's beyond like divorce stuff. That's just, that's just cruel. Right. Right.

Because if some random person from your office called and said, hey, my dad just passed away, will you just come talk to me for a minute? You would go, right? Yes. Much less somebody you've created lives with. I hate that for you. Thank you. When's your divorce finalized? I have been trying to get it finalized. He at first didn't have a lawyer. Now he wants a lawyer. So he's just pushing back a lot.

He doesn't want the kids. I mean, he wants them, but he doesn't want them full-time. So it's just a lot of pushback. He doesn't want them to work. What's there to push back? He does not want to pay child support or something? No, he'll pay child support. He just wants me. So anything he can do to prolong it, he does. It's just left... I'm struggling to...

So to wrap my head around the words, it's a good grief. I'm embarrassed now that I don't know off the top of my head because I used to just know it off the top of my head. But in the state of Texas, there comes a moment when somebody can just – so a strategy is I don't believe the county that we live in or that I live in has the resources to actually come to my house because I didn't show up for any of this stuff and actually force the sale of this home and split everything up.

I call your bluff. I'm not ever going to respond to a letter. I'm not going to respond to anything from the court. I'm not going to do anything. I'm just going to do nothing. There is a point that your lawyer can simply get a trial date and you go before a judge and say, here's all the times I've tried. Here's all the things. And they can settle it right there.

And then they send a letter out and the person has 30 days to respond or something like that. But if that's their game to just stall and stall and stall and stall, they end up shooting himself in the foot because the letter says everything's final after that 30 day. Here's my guess. My guess is there's a teeny, teeny, tiny part of Vanessa that wants, is still hanging on to this thing. I think I'm, I think I, I have, I don't like to get into, I mean, I'm very strong. I can get into it with him, but I don't like that.

I don't like it when it gets to that point because there's rage texts and there's threats and there's all these, and it's anxiety. But you have not, you haven't blocked him and you haven't filed a no contact order because of the way he talks to you. I've tried. And they said no? They said no. Why? Yeah. They said that the language that he used was not hard enough. And so they couldn't grant me that. Okay. So delete it. It was domestic. So delete it.

You see what I'm saying? Like, I want you to take full ownership of this. I agree, yeah. And by the way, you hired a lawyer, right? Mm-hmm, yeah. All right, you've hired an assassin. Let them do their job. People hire lawyers, and then they pay this retainer. And in your case, they're probably between five and 15 grand you've already paid out. But then you keep texting on the side, and you keep trying to settle things on the side. You've hired your assassin. Let them go do their assassin's job. Let your attorney go fight for you. That's why you hire them.

And then you stop responding and be as present and as close and as great as a mom as you know how to be. And grieve your dad because you haven't written him a letter and let him go yet. Because when he finally goes, you're going to feel all alone doing this thing. You're trying to hang on to him too, right? Yeah. Yeah. And you did everything you could to fight for this marriage. But the bell rang. Like the final buzzer has already rang.

It's over. And you're still trying to shoot layups to try to like move the score. You can't move the score. You don't want to play. Right. So you hired a lawyer, let your lawyer do your lawyer jobs, and then you go about creating a new world. Are you working? I am. Good. How's that going? I love my job. Awesome. Is it enough to provide for you and the girls? It is enough, yes. Okay. Do you have a place to live? I do. Amazing.

Like you, like I want, I'm saying, I'm asking you to say these things out loud because you're already taking steps. You're just so in it. You don't realize how far you've actually moved. You're way stronger than you think you are. You just have to let your dad go. And my recommendation is write him a letter and tell him what you love him, how much you miss him. And in the letter, talk about what kind of mom and woman you're going to be. Then let him go. He was a good guy. He was amazing. What was his dad? Well, I mean, what was his name?

John. John. It's awesome. It's probably the greatest name of all time. A little bit biased, but don't start it with dear John. Start with your dad. There's a whole thing. Okay. And let your husband be your ex-husband. And here's the deal. I'm going to fight you. I'm going to extend that. I'm not going to fight. I'm not fighting you. I have hired an attorney. That's their job. And you do have to stay on divorce attorneys sometimes.

Because they often take humongous caseloads because things can get so routine. And there can be, after a while, an economic incentive to keep dragging it out. Okay. So say, I want this thing over by this date. I want to be done with this. Okay. All the paperwork filed.

And it's worth, if you haven't put down a retainer, it's worth getting the best attorney you can get for the dollar amount you can get. There is a class of attorney that will prey on people in your situation. And I know personally attorneys who are incredible. Okay. Who will look at your situation and say, not on my watch. I'm not going to have some big, tough, egomaniac shoving around a woman and her little girls. Not going to do it.

And they'll earn their $10,000 or their $7,500. They will. And it's kind of fun to watch. They're amazing. And this process always takes longer than you think it's going to, and it's always more frustrating. That's why I say let your lawyer do your lawyer job, and then you go on about your day. Okay. Okay? Mm-hmm. This guy has repeatedly proven he does not want to be married to you. He does not want to love you. He doesn't want to build a world with you. He needs his children to massage his ego. He needs you to sit down

On the sideline in a chair and he'll call you into the game when he gets good and ready. And that's not marriage, right? Right. And you swore to yourself you'd never get divorced and you got married, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry. Sorry. Vanessa, you call anytime. I'm going to hook you up with a few things, okay? Okay.

I'm gonna send you, I'm just taking a wild guess here, just 'cause I look at the data. This is not directed at you, this is just my understanding of what it looks like when a mom decides to free herself from this kind of madness and she ends up, in an effort to do what's right and to save herself, she ends up single mom. I'm gonna send you Financial Peace University from the Ramsey Solutions where I work. Okay. And it's gonna teach you how to handle your money.

And you've probably been doing that your whole life, but I just want to give you this as a gift. I'm also going to send you every dollar, the best budgeting app on the planet for a year for free. Okay. I'm also going to send you building a non-anxious life, my book, and I want you and your daughters to go through it. Y'all can do it together. I handed it to my son when he was 12, uh, probably 13 and he read it in a few days and we've talked about it since. Okay. Okay.

It'll be a cool little roadmap you can make for your new reality, your new world. Is that cool? Yes, thank you. All right. Hang on the line here, Vanessa. We're going to get you hooked up. And I'm really grateful that you called. But big picture, somebody's enraged and they're angry and they belittle you and they demean you and they cheat on you. They are telling you, because behavior is a language, I do not want to be in a relationship with you. I want you to serve me. I want to own you. And that's not how relationships should work.

And so there is no sitting down. There's not a thing you didn't say. There's not an action you didn't take. You've tried for years and years and years. There's just that moment that drop your shoulders, drop all of it. And you have to weep. It's called grief. You wanted it to be one way and it's not. And you have to ask yourself that terrifying question. What am I going to do now? And I want you to look back and see you've been asking that question. You've been doing it. You're an amazing woman. Keep going. We'll be right back.

Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

All right, we're back. Am I the problem? Go for it, Kelly. All right, this is from Lacey in Denison, Texas. My husband is currently undergoing chemotherapy, and my mother-in-law is requesting to take my husband to one of his appointments. Is it wrong for me, his wife, to want to tell her no because I want to be with him for all of his chemo appointments, or am I just being the worst daughter-in-law? That one's tough. What do you think?

I don't think there's a clear-cut answer here because I get where she's coming from. She wants to be the one to take him, but as a mom, this woman probably just wants to be with her son. So, yeah, I'm thinking through this real time. There's two layers to this question. One is, oh, now you're showing up?

like you've been this terrible mother-in-law and now that something's going on you're going to make this about you too right there's that like there's this mother-in-law's toxic and here she shows up to try to save the day you don't get to do that the other is a flip of that no this is all mine and i'm not sharing like i'm going to be the caretaker here and here's my new identity and so the question i would ask myself is would it bless my husband to have his mom come on come to one of the doctor's appointments would it give her peace

would it give him peace to see her at peace that's that's the bigger question is this ultimately going to help my husband and if it is i need to put my ego aside

If it's not, if being around his mom, everything gets tense, everything gets chaotic, then I'm going to protect him. And I'm going to say, no, we've got a rhythm and a routine. I've got to be in the room to help with the medical decisions because I'm in power of attorney, all those things. But you can come to the house. And when we get home, you can, we'll be right there. So that'd probably be the, is this best for him?

And I think that mom and her don't get a vote on what's best for us right now because he's going through chemo. And the job right now is to keep him alive and to keep him as loved as possible. How does that sound? That sounds good. I think there's – because you gave your two scenarios. I think there's probably a middle ground. Of course there is. Which is just everybody's in a crappy situation. And nobody – you don't know how to handle a situation. You've never been in it before. And they're both grasping.

at something and trying to do something because, I mean, you know, what a helpless thing to be the spouse or the mother because you can't do anything. So it's probably, you know, like a lot of these is just a needed conversation. And I also can imagine the difference between, hey, sister-in-law, I know this is bananas and this is going to sound crazy.

it would be such a blessing if i could take him to one appointment like i just i need to see what he's seeing through his eyes i want to hold his hand can i have this one versus i'm coming to town and i'm gonna start taking him and you can just go to work because you're never even here like there's two different things there and if it was like i'm just trying to think if my wife was going through chemo and her dad called and said i'd love to take her to a visit i would be so honored by that and i know that i would sheila my wife would be honored by that

But I can imagine there's other situations where you'd be like, no way, no way. But, man, that's a tough one. Again, default to what's going to be the best gift for the person who's hurting. And let's rally around that person. And let's make all the decisions, not about ego, but about how can we best love them. Whew, that's a messy one. Hey, I love you guys. Stay in school. Bye.