The Big Suey: Boxing Is The Worst, Dude
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Welcome to the Big Suey, presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Levitard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys? I've done it. And now, here's the marching band to nowhere, fat face, and the habitual liar.

I don't know how many people like this you guys have met in your life in this business, a personality type that is particular, that no matter where it is that they are on the text string, on the phone, on their show, they're doing show.

They're always on and they want their opinions heard everywhere. Nick Wright has texted me because he wants everyone to hear this opinion of his. How many people like this have you met in this industry? Sid Rosenberg was somebody like that may still be someone like that. Just need their opinions heard everywhere. Nick Wright says, enjoy the semi-annual. Actually, this quarterback is better than Patrick Mahomes media day. Typically,

Lamar's is in November and Josh's is in October, but it flipped this year. Adds exciting intrigue before he beats them both in January. What's it up to? No idea. Do you know many media types like this? Too many. Most. Yeah, I mean, I think the exception is what's enjoyable, and I try to be the exception. I'm not giving sports opinions. I'm not texting people in the middle of a Monday night football game. I'm just not.

Good for me. Well, you showed everybody. I did? Yes, you've... I don't know what... Okay, so you're not texting during games. You're busy writing emails and saying they're invoices. Right. That's business. He's just like awkwardly pacing the house. That's what he does when he watches football games. I'm taking care of business. I came in today and this is what it is that Solomon Wilcox...

had to say that's cots he's still at it huh he's still at it it's i told you it's uh it's coffee with a side of football in the morning he said yesterday listen to me this is important because i don't think you guys know it you knew it when you were watching possibly it came off of the screen on you but jessica wilcott said that ravens steelers two chin strap game oh wow

Not one, but two. Two-chin strap game. Now, at one point I saw Zay Flowers was hit in the mouthpiece that he wears outside of his mouth. I think it seemed like he was wearing two of them outside of his mouth. He got hit by a laser beam by Lamar Jackson that he dropped on third down. Right in the face, yeah. Yeah, but it was a two-chin strap game. That game was more violent than the other football games. Ha, ha, ha.

Did you see the interception that Peyton Wilson had? The linebacker. That play was insane. Not really sure it was an interception, but still impressive. It was like a pure takeaway. How bad was that throw by Russell Wilson, by the way? The interception? The interception in the end zone. Unlimited. Darnell Washington needs to jump or stick an arm up

there because he was like sort of in the area and then was like, oh, it's over my head. But this this happens in that this happens in that sport so often where the job is just throw it over there and A.J. Brown will out A.J. Brown, whoever's over there. Like they're not they're not actually open. They're just in front of somebody. And when Russell Wilson threw that ball, his receiver was in front of him and then he wasn't anymore.

But one of the things that's happening in that sport more and more is everyone's open. Even when they're not, everyone's open because if they're that athletic and they turn around and you're throwing to just a spot before anyone, you're just saying, I see one-on-one conversations.

coverage over there and my wide receiver is more athletic than your cornerback. So I'm just going to see if I throw it in the vicinity of one of his shoulders. Russell Wilson has thrown so many 50-50 balls in the last three games. It is a skill though. Ball winning is a skill. It's not always athleticism even though Amari Cooper is super athletic especially compared to the normal person at this part of his career at this age.

He's not really going to out-athletic guys, but he's like Anquan Boldin. Anquan Boldin hung around for several years after you would think that he wouldn't, and he wasn't burning past people. He wasn't beating people off of routes. It was just, throw up that ball. It's not a 50-50 with me. It's a 75-25. That's all DeAndre Hopkins is giving you at this point, correct? Correct. That's been the case for a couple of years with him. And the one-arm catch, if you can do that.

I hate, I'd be curious what the analytics are on the fade pass to the corner of the end zone. I personally hate that play. It seems like there's so many ways for it not to be complete. It must be successful. Wait a minute. No, historically, analytics people hate the end zone fade. I can't stand it. Good. See, I didn't know that. But there are a couple of guys, like you throw an end zone fade to DK Metcalf, the math changes a little bit. Right, but the field is working against you. You're throwing literally to a little corner of the end zone.

It's just... It's a terrible play, in my opinion. I understand why you don't like it, why other people don't like it, and why analytics don't like it. But, man, in goal-line situations, when the choice a quarterback and a coach can make is, it's one-on-one over there, and I'm going to trust my guy to be bigger, stronger, and faster than your guy because we pay the wide receivers better than we pay the cornerbacks. And...

A disaster's not going to happen. I'm unlikely to get an interception in that spot. I'm going to take one shot that feels like better than 50-50 to me because I've got my athlete being more of an athlete than your athlete. I feel like that math is being done all over the field in hunting mismatches. No one has more data than these head coaches. I'm sure there's a way to quantify the success rate if I throw it one-on-one to Steve Smith, but...

To my original point of calling players, I'll be playing the probabilities that my guy, my DK Metcalf, my Steve Smith, my Cooper Cup is going to be better than your guy trying to stop him in this moment. You know why Russell Wilson threw that interception in the red zone? Why? Because he could hear everyone...

today saying the Steelers won that game without scoring a touchdown and he was desperate to not get three out of that drive. Well, they didn't because he turned it over. But I could hear the desperation coming out of him that we need to score a touchdown in this game or else people like Mike Schur are going to be online complaining about this isn't real football. You can't get 18 points the hard way. It doesn't count. Guess what?

Tomlin is 2-0 in games in which his team hasn't scored a touchdown this year. Yeah, he's got six field goals in that game. He loves that. We've talked a lot. What we haven't talked about is like, oh, so nobody gets to score 52 in a game. But Detroit has done it twice now this season. Yeah.

It's not like all the other things. Detroit's not like all of the other things. We can sit here and argue about whether Casey was real, all the one-score games. You can believe what you want about the Steelers and the Vikings. You're welcome to believe whatever you want about the Ravens as well.

But that team doesn't look like all the rest of the teams. They look better. Yes. Yes. They look overwhelming. I mean, and you can look that way against Mac Jones and against Jacksonville. That team is fundamentally broken. Their coach, I'm assuming. But that's the way you beat that team. If you're a great team, Dan, a team that's trying to win a Super Bowl, that's the way you beat Jacksonville. I don't think I'd seen a 14-point spread this season. Jacksonville is terrible with Mac Jones. They've gone unbeaten.

They're terrible with Trevor Lawrence. Yeah, but they're not. Look, man, 52-6 isn't happening very much in that league. Right. That was the highest point spread by a half a point. And part of it is the other team not having their starting quarterback. Most of it is Detroit's offense. They are awesome.

Awesome. And I don't know if the betting odds say it right now as the most probable matchup, but I am so looking forward to Lions and Bills in the Super Bowl. One team never won a Super Bowl, once lost four in a row. The other franchise hasn't won an NFL title since 1957. That's going to be an ideal Super Bowl match. If we get to it. Yeah. Right. Right. Big if. But is there a better likely matchup right now than that? I don't think so. I'm going to look it up, but I think

probably the worst odds that you would get on a Super Bowl matchup would be Lions-Chiefs.

Even with last night's result. I'd be curious. Look that up. I think that what has... They'll be on it. You don't have to tell them. Friendly advice. I'm curious. I don't know how this went over with everyone in the crew. I don't know if you guys were having glitching problems with your red zone yesterday because a lot of people were making the glitching hour jokes.

You don't want your witching hour distorted by buffering or by seizing. The things that I have found interesting about the revolution, Stugatz, of how it is that customers consume sports content, the streamers getting in the game for sports and live sports changes everything.

And I am legitimately surprised that there is not more glitchiness in the transition because I didn't think that Amazon would just be able to up and get a football game up with all of those cameras and everything you need to happen so that nobody notices that you're doing it for the first time. Like,

There's got to be some tripping around, some stumbling around. I thought of it when Evander Holyfield's earpiece went out on live television. Netflix is doing four and a half hours of programming just trying to keep the audience until the midnight fight. They get a record 60 million people. Netflix never gives out the numbers like this, whether you believe it or not. I don't know if they're blaming that for the glitchiness or whatnot, but

But at four and a half hours of live coverage, there are a lot of things can go wrong. And I'm surprised that these things don't have a lot more mistakes because we're in the middle of the transition and these are hundreds of millions of dollars that it costs to put

on some of these productions. Like they're basically staging these giant events on live television that feel like we're debuting a movie tonight because we're changing the way all of you watch this stuff. Like it's not about going to a theater for a movie. Now you're going to stay home on Friday night and Netflix wants your Friday night

For the circus tent, for the nonsense, for just something that was unfathomably stupid so that boxing could show its ass, Mike Tyson could show its ass, and all of us, the customer, can again show our ass on boxing. We'll always steal our money with stupidity, and then part of the fun is spending two days complaining about it afterward because, damn it, it wasn't what I thought I was buying.

Wasn't it exactly what we thought it was going to be? It wasn't exactly how we all thought. A little late, though. It was pretty drawn out. That's boxing cards, but you would have thought maybe since this is in Dallas and not in Vegas, we'd still do Eastern Standard on here. Great women's fight, though. Incredible women's fight. I felt bad for Tyson. Anyone else? I think everybody else. Really? Yes, I think everyone had the same feeling. People wanted Tyson to win. I feel like old people need to just take the L here.

He said for months leading up that you guys thought he had a chance, and it was pretty clear pretty quick that he didn't. Chris, we also got some clarity on why this fight was delayed. There was this weird, ambiguous health issue that Mike Tyson was dealing with, and he later revealed that he essentially won that fight because of what he overcame. He had blood transfusions, lost a lot of blood, apparently had a very serious issue, still kind of trying to figure out what happened there. It is the dirtiest sport.

It is the most awful of the things that we make money off of in sports. And this is the worst permutation of it, which is what's famous. Put it in a ring. It doesn't have to be good boxing. Boxing shows its ass here when this thing is the circus event.

That it was and everyone tuned in in a way they would not for any other fight like this. But I will tell you, Chris Cody, early on as I'm watching and Mike Tyson doesn't throw a single uppercut, Jake Paul is wise to let an old man's legs get old by simply avoiding him early.

And there he just gets tired because it is an impossible emotional fatigue and drain to go up into that fight to fight again over your fears and everything. A lot of legs are giving no matter what your stamina level is, because the fear grabs your legs. And the fact that Jake Paul knew enough to stay away from him early and the fact that I never saw an uppercut fight.

from Mike Tyson. Never saw one throughout the fight because he wasn't close enough to do it. You knew early on that there wasn't going to be anything in his legs if Jake Paul could just keep him away for a couple of rounds. Hey, podcasters, it's Mike Ryan, and let me tell you something. The NBA's got a lot going for it right now. Bright young stars hitting the court, teams playing exciting brands of basketball, and celebrities everywhere you look courtside. It's no wonder why tickets are in demand. Let me tell you about my favorite on the secondary ticket marketplace, and that is

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Don Levitard. Imagine if someone told you you couldn't have a Corvette. Stugatz. I'm a grown-ass man who's not filthy rich. I can't afford a Lamborghini. Well, I probably can, but that's beside the point. Hey! This is the Don Levitard Show with the Stugatz.

I'm not going to lie. I didn't watch any of this. I was watching college football Friday night, and also it was like way too late. But I do need to just ask, why...

Did we see Mike Tyson's ass? Yeah, they did. Why? Why did that happen? I think it was a it is a locker room interview setting. And I don't think that they were prepared for him turning around and wearing. Oh, really? I thought that was totally manufactured. No, it was his son doing the pre in locker room interview. They have a nice moment. They exchange a kiss on the cheek. And Mike just walks away from the interview and we just see his ass. Yeah, but the camera, the camera lingered. And I think even the camera disappeared.

kind of focused on it a little bit. The camera goes down. I watch it and I'm like, this is purely manufactured to get people talking about it on the internet. You see the camera direction. The camera was anticipating that happening. But then it zoomed in to get the ass out of the shot. If you're a cameraman, you just got to do your job there. If he's going to turn around and show you that, you got to pan out a

I thought it was what you do. 100% manufactured. They were trying to make a moment and do exactly what it did. For those people that weren't watching, have something on the internet that reminds you this event's happening. I have a feeling if Christopher, under any circumstances, interviewing me,

And I'm, you know, bottomless. He's going to say, Dad, put on some pants. Right. You know, like, is it that inconvenient to put on some pants? You're going to ask Mike Tyson in that spot to put on some pants? Hey, you know, the son, hey, Dad, please? Just, you know, a pair of pants. But I didn't feel cheated. Look, it was a totally lopsided fight.

They had to have a split decision to create any impetus for a rematch, and it was not even close to a split decision. Rematch? It's not going to be a rematch. Like I just said, if you were listening, a split decision, and there would have been impetus for a rematch. When you have a unanimous decision...

There's nothing. It just dies. But the reason I didn't feel cheated is that anybody who had Netflix was watching it for free. It's not like I paid 70 bucks for pay-per-view. Okay, you might not have felt cheated. I'm thinking that most people felt cheated by that. I don't think the event ends up meeting the expectations of whatever it is people thought they were going to get for four and a half hours of live programming. It's very difficult, but...

But the test, what they pulled off successfully is, because this part's just crazy to me. It really is. We're headed toward a duopoly in Hollywood. Like it just sort of seems like you've got Amazon and Netflix fighting to become whatever the future of television is with all of the money in the world to throw at the investment. How do I get 60 million people around their television the way that it only happened when we had three Netflixes

and it was like the season finale of MASH or Cheers or Friends or whatever it is that... Or Dallas. Well, it wouldn't be Friends because that was after three networks. But there used to be a time... Look up for me, please. What gets a number of 60 million? You may not believe the number from Netflix. You're welcome to question all of the ratings in the modern age. I don't know what's accurate anymore either. But...

Netflix is saying that this is an unprecedented record-breaking success. They're just now getting into live sports. They're just now beginning to change what this entire model is. And if they can throw up some freak fest that is just internet popular that cuts across 40 years of...

My wife asked me, she wanted to watch this. She never does this with anything in sports, nothing at all. She just wanted to see what the hell was going on, what the spectacle, why everybody was talking about this. And if the old man could do anything in this circumstance, could he at the

There are so many old people, because Chris is right. He's making fun of the mythology of Tyson that we are forever talking about. But even Jake Paul wasn't going to get close to that for the first round. Like he wasn't going to go in there and take the risk of one punch from this man as an uppercut, even at 58.

would be enough to slay him. He knew this. He's smart. He continues to keep his business alive. But Netflix had a buffering problem because of the number of people. That's a good problem to have when you're just starting in this part of the business. I was at a place where the signal held steady the entire time, but it was overwhelming on social media and in my group chats. Everybody was having issues with the buffering for this live event. So I'm not really sure why some people had concerns.

Consistent streams and some others didn't this is something that's plagued Netflix though with like their live events because there's a love is blind Finale like two years ago that they just couldn't get on the air was supposed to be a live reunion And it was delayed like hours and hours because they just couldn't get it live so like I don't I don't want a Monday morning quarterback at Kate But I was thinking like it's probably gonna be an issue here if there's gonna be this many people watching and they couldn't Get love is blind on live and Billy. You know what's happening on Christmas what oh?

Beyonce. Chief Steelers on Netflix. I thought it was Beyonce. They were. She's a halftime performer for that. They were able to fix it.

In their defense. They did. Like, all of a sudden, the Paul fight was about to start and it was fixed. Yeah, it was good. They have unlimited resources. They're going to figure this out. They're going to get more people familiar with live sports broadcasts. And, I mean, the stakes go up for them because they've been doing these things sporadically. Live activations. Beginning in January, they got Monday Night Raw live broadcasted.

Every week on their platform. They're gonna have to get good at it quick I also don't really get giving them a pass or like this is their first try they don't know how to do it like they just buy everybody else that's done it for other networks before right like it's not like I'm trying to put on a boxing match and figuring it out live yeah, I think they're outsourcing that yeah like they have people doing it I don't think they do have a resources there. They're a company. That's not gonna. Just spend a you know

unneeded amount of money on something. I meant it comparably. But I think that they were doing a lot of unconventional things, be it the manufactured moment with Mike Tyson's ass, which I think was 100% intentional. So you think that was 100%? Yes. They were like, let's plan a bit with his ass. I don't agree with him on that. You know the worst part about it for me? So I tuned in for like...

not even two minutes so I tuned in probably around nine and I saw like all the like fake graphics that are there like oh how is this giant person floating in the air like this is weird right so like I tuned into that and then I see they're like tonight we have and it's like all of these fights that come up and I go

I don't care about boxing. I'm not going to watch four hours of this to see one fight. I don't care about any of these fights. I don't really even care about the main event. Like, just sit around for four hours to watch Mike Tyson hopefully survive? Like, this is crazy. Also, like, side note, how crazy is it that on a regular basis at the Cowboys stadium they put up curtains for things that are not the football game, but poor Dak Prescott is blinded every single week? Ha!

But for concerts, they put them up. They have them. They just refuse to put them up for the football game, and it's impacting their actual team. The last Super Bowl drew 123 million viewers. For a cartoon freak show boxing match to draw half of that total was astounding. But to answer Dan's question, Seinfeld did 76.3 million, the final episode.

of Seinfeld did that. Cheers, the final episode, one for the road. Great name, by the way, for Cheers. Did 80.5 million. Dallas, JR, who shot JR, did 83.6 million. And MASH did 106 million. Now think about what we're talking about here when he uses those numbers and the quality of years that go into relationship building with an audience over raising your children for years,

and watching television, letting this into your home, the idea that this freak fest, this nonsense, a total contrivance, I think the whole thing was a contrivance, except for the Mike Ryan or the Mike Tyson ass part of it.

I think the whole rest of it... They lucked into an ass. We lucked into an ass. The women's fight, and that's where I kind of... I'm down with what Jake Paul is trying to do because his promotions really do try to get good fights on the card. And from a boxing card, I was really happy with...

the fights that were displayed that weren't the main event. It was just really drawn out. And I know that's usually the deal with these big boxing cards, but maybe it was because I was watching it with my dad, but this felt like it was taking forever. No, dad, I actually think Quincy Jones is properly rated. Let me, though, explain to you, if I could, the business model of what pay-per-view is. Because Floyd Mayweather is... Isn't it pay-per-view?

Yes. Well, it's in the name. No, but I'm going to explain to you what it is. You're saying it's dragging, and I'm saying it doesn't matter. It's there to tease you for six hours to build up into what you're waiting for. It doesn't matter. It's time spent listening. It's time spent watching. Those shows that he just mentioned is $90 million. People, for a half hour, this climbs over the course of the night. You're keeping eight times as much time on the show.

occupied over prime time on a Friday night, the value of what it is that Netflix just did is industry changing. But we also don't have any numbers in terms of how long people actually stayed watching. It's just there was 60 million people tuned in at

some point in time for some duration. I'm not saying it's 60 million for the entire time. I'm saying what the business model is that makes it live television and is seismic as it relates to sports and streaming, getting into bed to change everything for all the customers.

is that if they can keep you around a television for five hours, it becomes the Super Bowl because that's what you do on Super Bowl Sunday. It's not a half hour. No, we've got your day. We've got your night. You're waiting around to see if we can get to midnight. And I'm telling you that everything changes from here. If they can pull this stuff off, they will do more and more. You will see ESPN and Disney have to do more and more like

buying TNT's property because they're trying to keep up with what it is that Netflix is doing. Netflix and Amazon are trying to make this a two-horse race, and they're trying to get everyone else out of the way, and this is the way that you do it with live sports. Well, that's a different conversation. I think part of what ESPN's doing is not just buying it. They've been trying to replicate the formula. Their business partners always told them, why can't you be like that property? But this is also part of a settlement, so I think it's a little bit more convoluted. You lost me, though, because

That's not what the pay-per-view model is. That's what perhaps streaming model is, and maybe that's what you meant. But pay-per-views, they aren't incentivized to have time spent watching. I got your money. Middle finger to you. Just buy it. You can watch. They don't care. It's a numbers game. No, but what I'm saying to you is this is the evolution. Floyd Mayweather... Oh, you're right, Dan. It is the evolution. But it's not... It is the evolution of boxing. Boxing's the worst, dude. It's the worst. The business, by any standard...

MMA now approaches it with the way that Dana White has figured out how to make sure that his labor can't make any of all of this money that they're making with this model. But Floyd Mayweather, 50 Cent was always making fun of him because he couldn't read, but he is the best businessman among athletes that there's ever been because he had all of his intellectual property.

What Netflix is coming and doing is being like, no, Floyd, no more for the... You don't get it all anymore. We will stand above you and we will buy the Jake Pauls and we will buy... And Bezos and Netflix will then compete to see who gets to be television. Who gets to be the future of television as Dwayne Johnson can't bring him to the theater anymore on Christmas because the theaters have collapsed. Dan, I have a question for you. Like, you grew up during, like, the golden era of boxing. Was the appeal always...

Let's watch this boxing match because we really want to see one of these guys get smoked in the face. The heavyweight division was the only one that drew. And the heavyweight division drew because there might be a knockout. Like, that's because there was always... And Mike Tyson. Because you didn't like the person? Because that's what I noticed. Like, a lot of people were just hate watching this thing. That's a lot of boxing. Boxing traffics and a lot of race stuff. Boxing traffics and a lot of Mexicans fighting.

versus black people. And let's see if we can get both of those cultures to just gather around with like identity pride around a television. And yes, Floyd Mayweather made all of that money in his career because half of the people were watching to see if he'd get hit. It,

was actually something that was funny because he's the rare non-heavyweight who got people to watch his fights even though he was playing defense all the time. And it's because so many people just wanted to see him knocked out. I didn't think Netflix was the big winner of this. I thought that Jake Paul was the big winner of this. Like, Jake Paul for...

Whatever your feelings are about him is, like, incredible at business. That he's able to just generate $20 million to give Mike Tyson so he can make $40 million because he decided he wanted to cosplay a boxer. Like, he's there and he's...

No one knows if he's actually good at boxing, right? Because he will never know. He wins his fights, but he's not actually really fighting talented boxers. Right. And he started late in his life for boxing. I will be starting boxing at like, you know, in your teens if you were going to be a serious boxer.

But he, I heard this driving in this morning, and it was Spanish language radio, but like they were talking and it sounded ridiculous, but it's not. Jake Paul's the face of boxing. Yes. Right now. Yep. He calls himself that. And he's trying to do with his platform good things in introducing. He made a couple of girls stars. Yeah. You wouldn't have watched Amanda Serrano if it wasn't for being on that card, probably. I'm, I'm.

I know this comes with baggage, but I am a fan of what the Jake Paul and Logan Paul media machine has created. And I don't think it's without merit. Say what you will about his actual boxing skill compared to actual boxers. What he's turned himself into is someone that does deserve some respect. Even if he's going in there against other YouTubers or bad boxers, he's turned himself into someone who is at least, at the very least, reputable. And I was...

The first thought that was going through my mind as the bell was about to ring, this guy was a YouTuber. This guy was Disney Channel adjacent. He was 17 years old just goofing around making videos and then here he is in a boxing ring staring across the ring

from Mike Tyson, the most dangerous man in the world, most feared man in the world at one point, about to engage in combat with a guy. It's just a crazy run. Like, what is this guy's life? He's also smart enough to know that the gimmick was gone until Mike Tyson entered the picture and that he needed someone like Mike Tyson. So...

Mike Tyson would not have gotten a $20 million payday without Jake Paul. Jake Paul would not have gotten a $40 million payday without Mike Tyson. They needed each other for this, and he was smart enough to know, I need a giant name for this next stunt, because it was kind of losing some of its momentum. You weren't really following Jake. He even had a fight when they called off the initial fight or delayed it. He's had a fight in between that and this one. No one saw that one. No one cared. They just wanted to see Mike Tyson fight against him.

They wanted to see Mike Tyson beat the crap out of him, and we kind of knew that wasn't going to happen, but that's why you were watching. I thought it was an absolutely brilliant matchup. You had black versus white. You had young versus old. You had all of the animus against the self-promoter Jake Paul, the YouTuber turned self-made boxer. You had Mike Tyson, who for most of his career was the perfect villain. All of a sudden, he's the lovable grandpa that everybody's rooting for. I thought

the dynamic. And convicted rapist. Okay, we can say that, but I think... We should probably say that. To have him be the likable, lovable one in this one is doing some climbing. It's doing some work. I think for a lot of people, we're rooting for Mike Tyson. I'm not even disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that...

Look, boxing's the worst. Yes. Boxing is the worst. Look, Mike can respect the business. You're playing both shards. He can respect the business of this. Well, Danny Merchant's coming out. I'm not playing both shards. I'm telling you, you're out here because Jake Paul won that fiasco at business. Getting respect when what's that on that guy's resume? Boxing's the worst. He deserves to be the face of boxing and another element in boxing that's in play. I saw this on an episode of Rich and Shameless.

The promoter Richie Parker realized so instantaneously that what boxing needs is a big white dude.

that he got Mark Gastineau. Oh, man. And it was all a crock, an enormous crock. And at one point, allegedly, he tried to poison an opposing boxer because Gastineau was so terrible at actually boxing. Do not sell me on the merits of Jake Paul as a boxer. It's the desperation of an American that wants a white guy who's violent, who can beat people up, and this guy will do as he beats up a 58-year-old.

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First of all, I do have respect for what Jake Paul has created. I was telling Greg this last week, we were rooting for Tyson to knock him out. But my daughter was rooting, didn't know who Mike Tyson was, was rooting for Jake Paul to knock out Mike Tyson. Wanted Jake Paul to win, wants to see more Jake Paul. So the younger demographic wants...

really likes this guy or at least is entertained by what it is that Jake Paul is doing. This has to break Dan's soul because Dan truly cares about the sport of boxing, the art of boxing, the history of boxing. He loves this sport and this sport has turned into a gimmick, a gimmick

is its greatest card, its greatest strength, and that has to drive Purist crazy. Well, yes and no, right? Because where does the spectacle go from here? Because when he started this whole thing, it was basically like, I can get all of the streamers to tune in, and it will be like a streaming all-star game, right? I'll have everybody come in, I'll have all of the influencers or whatever at this, and then he realized, I can make this mainstream by getting someone like a Mike Tyson, but...

What's the next name? Like, who does he fight that can outdo Tyson? He wants Canelo. Okay. He's calling out Canelo. Just saying, that's who he's calling out. He also called out Conor McGregor. In an MMA fight. In MMA, where he is like...

Two and a half times bigger than Conor McGregor. But I don't think that that will necessarily outdo... Tyson might have been it. This was a great spectacle, but I feel like... Dude, Canelo... Because he would actually get beaten that one. People... I'm not Dan. I know it's a sham. Canelo would crush him. But people would watch that. People would watch that. But Canelo doesn't have the same cultural relevance in this country as Mike Tyson does. Conor McGregor... Internationally, it might be. There is no bigger fight that he can make than Jake Paul, Conor McGregor. MMA. I can't believe... Okay...

I'm still waiting on Conor McGregor versus Floyd Mayweather, too. I'd still watch that. That was good. I can't believe that this is where we are on the next step in this sport. I will say that it is several shades beyond infuriating to see you guys set up a Jake Paul Canelo match.

that makes me want to fight all of you? - Why are you getting so offended by that? - We should do that. That's what the next fight should be. Dan versus every single one of us. - We all like fights. Stop it with your high horse. If I told you Dan-- - Canelo Alvarez would destroy this human being. - I don't know. - It's so dry here. - And don't you wanna see that?

That's what everyone wanted to see on Saturday. Probably as we like fights and spectacles, Dan likes the sweet science. The sweet science. It's not even the sweet science. It's that you offend me with your ignorance putting Jake Paul in a ring with Canelo Alvarez. That's where it all ends. All of it ends there. There will be no better, bigger fight for him than to fight one of the best pound-for-pound fighters in the history of boxing and promptly lose in a way that shows everybody, oh my God, this guy doesn't

know what he's doing. But it's human to want to watch people fight, especially famous people. Dan, if I told you, hey, out in the parking garage, Danny Bonaduce is fighting Chris Chelios, you're going to want to see that. Oh, Chelios would win that though, right? I've seen Bonaduce throw down. Really? I think the sad part is Dan is Canelo should jump at that fight if it's offered to him. That's what he did.

He needs that fight. That's the way Jake does it. Canelo needs Jake Paul at this point. Canelo needs the fight. When's the last Canelo fight you watched? You're right. I haven't watched the Canelo fight. And I wouldn't watch this fight, though. Canelo is a pay-per-view beast. You guys underestimate how much of Mexico watches every time he fights. Jake says it when they ask him. He needs me. If he wants a payday, he knows where I'm at. Wow.

Christopher and I, on my podcast out today. The Greg Cody Show featuring Greg Cody. That's correct. It's not correct. It's with. Fine. It's with. You knew the whole time? You're right. We discuss fighting each other, like Christopher and I in the ring, because our age difference is somewhat similar to the age difference between Tyson and Jake Paul. Would I have been a bigger favorite than Jake Paul?

Well, here's the thing. That's what we were debating. You know, not to get personal, Christopher's got to drop about 25 pounds to get down to my weight class. You tell him. I think my—I don't know how you measure our reach. You've got bad arms. Aren't you having a bad arm week? Well, I'm having a bad arm day, and I would fight him with a long-sleeved shirt. But I do think that my reach is as long as his. Okay, so if he drops 25 pounds, you know, I've got that old man strength.

Chris Cody would be a bigger favorite against you than Jake Paul was against Mike Lassner. I think Greg would mop the floor with his son. Thank you. I do. I really do. You know, because you think, okay, in theory, it's a good idea. I'm going to fight my dad. Until you get in the ring with your dad, and you don't want him.

punch your dad. Well, my dad actually is suspiciously strong for his age. Doesn't have very much stamina, but whenever I jostle my father physically, I'm always surprised how much wiry rage I just like doing. He does that. He loves to jostle. I saw him do it with his grandfather, and so of course I do it too. OMS is a real thing. Greg vs. Chris really does put this in perspective.

Thank you.

I'm just, I am both appalled by the way the business of this works as somebody who loves sports and would like a sporting event that has merit to get this as opposed to the evolution of let's just throw a bunch of famous things together and let's make Jake Paul the face of combat sports. And it's like, wait a minute, do you know how many people are almost literally killing themselves to get to the top of this art and you're going to make this clown, you're going to make this

make this clown the

the face of it because he's YouTube famous and he's got the perfect people he's picking to fight. And he'll find somebody because this business is booming. It's never been better and bigger than it is today when your big corporate partner is Netflix trying to figure out how to beat everyone else at this particular game. But he has to keep winning, right? The second he loses, it's over. He's already lost. Really? Yeah. He's lost once. Jay Paul's lost. It's a bad business strategy. He lost to Tommy Fury. Wow. Wow.

Seems to be doing okay, though. I shouldn't really question his business strategy. But to your point, though, if he had lost to Mike Tyson, 58-year-old Mike Tyson, his boxing career might have ended. Again, not a real boxer. That he overachieves beyond wherever it is your expectations were for a YouTuber? Fine. But you...

But you put him in a ring with any of the top ten contenders in his weight class and he will lose quickly. You can make the squeaking sounds all you like. He will lose quickly to real fighters. Don't we all know that? No, I don't believe that Billy and others do. No, I do not. No, everyone here, certainly everyone here, we all know what this is.

Him versus Canelo, I think we all know how that one goes. No, but I think that that... It's a sideshow. I'd like to see how it goes. I'd watch it. You wouldn't like to see it. Oh, Dan, you'd watch Canelo Jake. Dan, you'd watch Canelo Jake. You'd watch this one. You'd watch the 60-year-old man do it. You'd watch this one. I didn't watch it. Because he wasn't fighting a real fighter. He was fighting someone who was 60.

But you watched it. Wouldn't a real fighter pique your curiosity just to see if he could hang with Canelo? No, because he can't. I know that he cannot. Well, there's only one way to find out. He couldn't hang with a real fighter's brother. Not only one way to find out. It's the only way to find out. I already know. How can you? It's impossible. You're talking about the 8-3.

ranked heavyweight whose name I have no idea of would automatically be favored? I'm talking about anybody within 25 pounds of him that is a ranked fighter. Anybody. I'll give you 50 pounds because Canelo is not. Canelo is 168. Like, Jake is in the 220s. He's going to fight someone 60 pounds heavier than him? No chance. Yes.

Yeah, Canelo has to bulk up for that one. He's going to have to. He will. I don't know. Okay. You keep saying this as someone whose entry into this entire conversation was, I don't care about any of this. The way you started, I don't care about anything that happens Saturday night. That's why I'm entertaining this fight. Yeah. Yeah.

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