Hour 2: Stan Van Gundy Is In-Studio
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This is the Dan Levitar Show with the Stugatz Podcast. ♪♪

This episode of the Dan Levitard Show with Stu Gatz is presented by Smirnoff. We do game days. Please drink responsibly. The Smirnoff Company, New York, New York. I'm going to say that per square foot, if you are somebody anywhere who consumes pop culture and you want your

your Kendrick Lamar Drake information. This room right here per square foot is the last place on earth that you would go to. But if I were an author like Greg Cody and Stu Gatz, and I were writing comedic fiction like the Farrelly brothers or the Coen brothers, what I would write is losing a rap beef. Fine. Mm. Bustard!

That is a fine. I'm going to pay it, too. Did someone miss me? Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. You still don't know how to turn that off, and he doesn't have cash. He owns $6 now. I do. Put it on my tab. Greg. Greg. I know. My bad. We just, in fairness to me. He just turned it on. You don't deserve fairness right now, Greg. We just came off a break. I was doing things, whirling dervish. I'm doing things during the break. Mm-hmm.

It's going to happen again, Greg. It's going to happen again because you don't know how to turn your phone down or off. It's going to happen again. No, I just turned it off for sure. But I happen to be very busy during that break. I'm moving and shaking. There's a lot of loose ends. There's just stuff going on. Anyway.

What I was saying is if I was writing fiction on how to lose a rap beef most obviously, overtly, in some realm that's subjective, once you've called in lawyers to sue your record company because you think that the numbers on the beef

that escalated to not like us where he accuses you of pedophilia and harboring pedophiles and having them on the payroll and you go to your lawyers because you're saying those sales couldn't have been that good? You can't write something funnier than that for losing a rap beef. You could sue your publishers. I mean, we'll double dip.

Spotify juices numbers? What? What a funny thing to have happen, though. Kendrick Lamar has to find that hysterical, right? Not just parlaying that into the halftime Super Bowl show or the number one hit, but also to have Drake whimpering, I'm going to talk to my lawyers. You've sold too well. That's unbelievable.

Once a beef, and again, we are not the people to ask, but once it escalates to attorneys, Dan, the beef is over. That's it. There is no more beef. I mean... I don't know who is advising him, who he considers counsel, but, I mean, you cannot lose a beef more historically than he has, and he is now inventing ways to lose it more. I couldn't have made that up. Like, honestly, that's something Adam McKay and Mike Schur would write. Let's do Against the Spread, please. ♪♪

That's right. It's time for a GIFT OF SCREAM!

And it's brought to you by our friends at DraftKings. Stay tuned because you're all about DraftKings and all it has to offer throughout the show. DraftKings. The crown is yours. Stay tuned. No, I'll do it. I think it's good. They're good. They're happy with it. Roy, what do you got? All right, we got Canucks Bruins tonight. Despite winning back-to-back games under new coach Joe Sacco, the Bruins have...

Failed to cover the puck line in nine straight games. And the Canucks on a seven-game road winning streak. That streak will continue. Go with the Canucks, who are one and a half gold dogs today on the road against the Spurs. Jim Montgomery wasn't out of work long. He got hired right away by the St. Louis Blues. Real quick.

How about that? I'm going to go with I've got a big ACC isn't that bad, SEC isn't that good agenda. We've got four interconference matchups between the ACC and SEC this weekend. The ACC actually has a chance to be better than 500 against the SEC if things break their way. So I'm naturally going to the biggest spread of the weekend of these matchups.

Look, last year, Georgia Tech, Georgia, that was a one-score game. Not many people remember that. I think Georgia Tech's better than people think. I think Georgia's worse than people think, and that's a lot of points. 20 points for a team that's going to try to keep possession and win within the margins. I'm going to back the rambling wreck here. Plus 20 against the spread. Billy, bring us home.

Some people are saying that this is a show-me game. Some people are saying this is the biggest game of his career. Some people are saying things may happen. Not I, though.

Things may happen, Billy, is how you concluded that big dismount. Let me think about this for a second. You said it is due for a concussion. It is a contract to say that. It's a contract to say that. Some people are saying things may happen.

is what you decided to sell this with? Well, we learned a lesson yesterday that you need to be careful with what you say and what other people are saying. So I was trying to be careful with this one. Let it be stated, no one is on a better gambling bend than Billy right now. He is as hot as hot could be. I think you were 3-0 last night, right? 3-0 last night. Yeah. Big Board Bets brought to you by...

33-16 on the season. Wow. But this doesn't count towards that. No. This is an emotional bet, friends. I'll admit that on the front end. I'm going to take the Dolphins plus three and a half this Thursday against the Packers. I like it. I like it. Things need to be shown, and I think things will be shown indeed. Tyreek Hill has gone to the internet and asked, where are all the internet cops now? Where are you now as all the charges get dropped?

and the police officers, I'm sorry, not the charges, the police officers didn't show up to court in order to do whatever it is needs to be done in order to follow anything. Internet cops? We're the actual cops. Tyreek Hill, we did make a big deal about all of that when they were losing, and now they've won three games in a row, and Tyreek Hill has his quarterback back, and now he is on the internet saying, taunting the internet, where are all the internet cops? Ha ha ha ha!

Tyreek Hill was enjoying, uh, all of that stardom he was getting. It doesn't often go to the people who aren't the quarterbacks, man. These Kelsey's are unusual. So Tyreek Hill left Kansas city and got all the fame away from my homes and Kelsey got to enjoy it, but also got to enjoy being at the top of the sport. Uh,

where it felt like everybody was talking about that team all the time. You go on a month-long losing streak in that sport, people forget about you, man. It happens fast. Especially when your starting quarterback is injured and you're not doing anything. Yeah. He might not even get 1,000 yards receiving, which in the 17-game NFL is tough. You don't have to be on bad form or anything. All you need is a bye week, and Stugatz forgets that you're MVP like he did with Josh Allen. But

We're going to go to the bucket of death here in a second, but Billy, why don't you give us an update on your Bryson watch? You ended the show yesterday, a bit obsessed by everything that you were watching Bryson DeChambeau hit the ball over his house, trying to get a hole in one behind his house. What's the latest update? So yesterday was day 14 on Bryson watch. Today is day 15. I mean, I,

Spoiler alert if you don't want to hear. Well, I guess I told you it's day 15, so you know he didn't do it yesterday. But we've run into an interesting conundrum with Bryson here. He has people who are copycatting him, and those people are hitting the ball over their house and making it in the hole in their backyard. So they now have been rid of this purgatory that Bryson has put himself in.

Also, I found out there's a certain golf simulator that if you own, you now have the ability to hit the ball over Bryson's house in said golf simulator like it's become a hole. This is really catching on. Now, here's the conundrum that Bryson is in.

because he's hitting so many balls, he's now blocking the hole with other balls. So when he's hitting the ball over his house, he's having them bump into other balls, which are preventing the ball from going into the hole. So it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out because he's going to have to get it done. My prediction is if he gets it done, he's going to have to get it done early in a day because he's putting them so close to the cup that he's bounced them off of other balls, which may be preventing it from actually ever ending for him. Now, if he hits a ball,

ball and that ball is close to the cup and that ball goes into the cup, but he's already hit that ball. So he's got one close, a scattered green. Good question. Does that count? Could he clear the course? Is someone going to object to that? He should clear the green, but apparently he's not doing that. It's going to be interesting today to see how we adjust to yesterday's developments of bouncing balls off of each other, because you should be able to clear the green, I would think. For the pass. But also, and I'm no golf aficionado.

I mean, I do watch Bryson hit balls over his house on TikTok, so I know a lot about golf. This is what I think occurs. I think if you hit a golf ball, like if I'm golfing with Stu Gatz, Stu Gatz puts the ball within two feet of the cup. I then hit it and it goes in. It's a hole-in-one for Stu Gatz because he didn't take a second stroke. I'm not sure how that would actually work.

Personal record book? I mean, I'm taking that putt anyway. It doesn't matter. I'm just picking up the ball. I'm not putting that out. It's two feet away. You're my friend. You give it to me. It's a big hole in your logic. He's already claiming it was a hole-in-one. I'm pretty sure if your ball gets hit and then goes in, you don't have a stroke, so it still counts as a hole-in-one.

Stan Van Gundy's going to be here shortly joining us in studio. Going to leave the Grim Reaper. I want you to stay around so that Stan Van Gundy also has to participate in a delayed bucket of death as we go around the room here.

You all right, Greg? Take it easy here. Let's take it easy. It's the Reaper. How is this thing always here when I'm here? Also, I was indignant. I fully guaranteed the Texans winning that game. Did you? Fully guaranteed. I'm concerned about Greg right now, so let's...

Let's take a second here. You predicted the Texans would win that game. I was very cocky when I pulled the Texans helmet out. I was like, well, at least I don't have to worry about it this week. And I even laughed at Roy. I tried to warn you. I did. Stupid sport. Nothing good in that bucket. Stupid gimmick. I have pulled from that bucket twice this season. Why are we doing it today? Because you're here.

Twice that many? Yes, he's avoided it all season because we've done it later in the week. Let's go ahead and have the Reaper wander around here, and we'll also do it with Stan. Let's get this Reaper out of the way. All of us hate this. Let's do this as quickly as possible, please. Okay.

I think the Reaper was told to leave, and now, okay, so here we go. Reaper, we're back on. I'm sorry, Reaper. I don't mean to boss you around. Stan Van Gundy is here. He'll be in with us shortly. Reminder, this is one of two weeks where there are no buys.

because of Thanksgiving. No bye weeks this year. That's right. We gorge on football in a couple of days. This is the biggest mail-it-in week that there is in the entire year for work people, right? This is the entire... Every day. All right. I got the Seahawks against the Jets. The Jets are a two-and-a-half-point dog at home. Jets off a bye. Whole world falling apart for the Jets. Yep.

Seahawks a two and a half point favorite at the Jets. I'm going to throw this one back. I don't want any part of that game. Wow, Mike. The bye week's scaring me, and that bye week went so well for the Jets. All right. Buccaneers. Oh, wow. I like it, Baker. At Panthers. We'll take it. Six point favorites. Upgrade. Okay, so that's the analysis right there. Yes, Baker. Upgrade. He's got the goods. Upgrade.

One of the great arguments that Mike Ryan ever had with Stan Van Gundy. He was right. Billy, what do you got? I have a conundrum. I have the Packers. Oh, wow. Wow. It's a win-win, though, Billy. The Packers are a three-and-a-half point favorite against the Dolphins. And I just picked the Dolphins to win. Dolphins fans are mad at you this week because of the thing that voice said. Nice hedge. I'm putting it in.

I can't. I know the Dolphins. The Dolphins are going to win, and Tua's going to come out of that game more healthy than he's ever been. It's crazy. I talked to the Raiders. This is a bad move. 13-point underdog. Oh, my God. Ouch. Anyone else love the Raiders there, plus their team? The Raiders beat them last. I just have to get within the spread, right?

No. Oh. We change the rules this year? No. What'd you get, Roy? I got the New York Giants. Ouch. Throw it back, Roy. You're lost. Plus four. Tommy DeVito looked good. Thanksgiving Day at Cowboys plus four. Physically. He didn't look good. Physically. He's a very handsome man. I got the Cincinnati Bengals now.

Three-point favorite at home against the Steelers. All right. Thank you. That's a weird game. Wow. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, no. We're keeping Stan Van Gundy waiting with this nonsense. This thing needs to move faster. I got the Bears. Right. The Bears are a big underdog against the Lions. I'm going to put that back, and I am keeping the Giants. Look at Stan Van Gundy. He's an adult. He's an adult human being. He's looking at this. He's got important places to be. He's got things to do. Oh.

If you remember, Stugat said the Lions have to lose soon. Yeah, they need a loss. The Bengals, that's a weird spread. Very weird. Minus three against the Steelers, huh? They need it. I think the Steelers are going to win. I guess. The Steelers need it too. Why is that weird? What's weird about that? I mean, the Bengals are below .500. Steelers are one of the best teams in the league. Everyone believes the Bengals are actually as good as the Steelers. Everyone thinks that. No? Not everyone. It's a good line. Yeah.

You say so. It's a division game. It's a division road game. Rummaging. That's rummaging. Just pick the name. I love a good rummage. Stan, that's what he's doing. He's keeping you waiting. Every second he rummages keeps Stan out there not talking to us. Bryce Young. I'm tempted. Carolina. We're going to do this for 24 minutes while Stan watches this just waiting. That's how we're going to do this. I'll throw it back. I don't want Carolina. Rummage for a minute.

Why are you standing on the couch? He should be in here, but there's no seat for him in here. Stan, come take my seat. You stay here. I know what you're trying to do. You're not fooling anybody. Yeah. You're not tricking anybody, Cody. I got the Carolina Panthers again. Oh, no. That's impossible.

There's nothing but Carolina Panther helmets in there. I got the lion. What? All right, over to my dad. He's keeping it. Go ahead, Cody. Look at this guy. Lion. What a fix. The head of the show gets the lion. Ten point favorite. I haven't lost this year. I've done it every week and haven't lost. Dress up for fun. Yeah. Eagles. Yeah.

Eagles are at the Ravens. Plus three. I'll give you Carolina. I want a new one. Really? Wow. I don't win against El Jack. Okay. El Jack. He's a Lobo. He's a Lobo. The Lobo. MVL. Seahawks? Yeah, you'll take it. You're keeping it. That's fine. Seahawks. They're at the Jets. Oh, yeah. Geno Smith revenge game. Yeah. Mike threw that back. Stan Van Gundy next.

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The crown is yours.

Don Libetard. You don't remember the idea for a home run call? I was probably like, that kind of thing. Something? Okay, no. The home run call was that kind of swing, that kind of thing. Stugatz. Oh. Stugatz.

It's a good call. Thank you. And plus, it doesn't matter who's hitting it. Like, you're not tailoring it to a particular name. You know, all that jazz. You know, you don't got to do that. Oh, that would be a great call. That kind of swing, that kind of thing. This is the Dan Levatard Show with the Stugats.

Stugatz doesn't often give up his chair. What's Stugatz doing back there, hiding there? Only royalty gets to sit in the Stugatz chair on his big day selling his book. Well, royalty is here, Dan. It's Stan Van Gundy. I mean, come on. All right, so Stan is here. What did you contribute to the book?

Would you read us a live audio passage on whatever it is? What was your experience with the Stugatz personal record book? I just remember being interviewed for it, but I don't know where it is in the book. So I just saw the book, so I haven't had time. But I will say this, Dan. I followed Pat Riley as the coach of the Heat.

And that wasn't nearly as much pressure as sitting in Stu Gatz's seat right now. Yes, I mean, big shoes to fill right there. Can we find for Stan, wherever it is his passages, to see if we could get a live audio rendition here of Stan Van Gundy? Do you remember what you allegedly wrote? Because it doesn't sound like you wrote for it either. It sounds like you were interviewed for something that was written for this book, which doesn't qualify as authorship exactly.

No, exactly. And Stu Gatz was, you know, clearly wrote every word in the book, but he did have people conducting interviews for him.

Then he incorporated everything. So I'm sure he knows exactly where it is. No, I don't. Stanzik would know, though. I mean, so we can call him and find out. This really is unbelievable. Greg, are you not offended as an author that he's getting away with a book that he hasn't actually written, that he's just given others to write? Well, wait a minute. I think let's go one step further. I'm not even sure he's read it. He hasn't. I was forced to read it, Stan. Audiobook, yeah.

Right. But we don't have proof that he's completed that assignment. He says he completed the audiobook assignment, but none of us know. He said it, but hasn't read it. I was talking with Stan before he came on the air, and I don't want to betray any confidences here. I am just interested in everything that's happened with Inside the NBA, the greatest studio show any of us have ever seen in sports, enduring, because I don't know if I have the business of this right, but it seems to me, and all of the machinations around that show, that

that would have been the hottest free agent property possible if they had gone out on the market as I would have imagined that Charles Barkley would have liked to have done because I don't think Charles Barkley wanted to have anything to do with ESPN from talking to him personally. So the idea that they now get to produce a thing that ESPN has to air but don't govern it, that

was going to be you once upon a time on one of these halftime studio shows, but it got nuked by David Stern, didn't it? Yeah, David and I were close friends, and...

Yeah, he didn't think I belonged on there. But, you know, with the inside thing, I mean, number one, Charles was under contract. So they decided to hang on to him, which was a great decision. It is the best show going. And I'm really happy for the people at TNT because obviously that's a great show and they retain, you know, the right to do the show their way. But

But on top of that, a lot of people at TNT keep their jobs. So it was great news for the people at our network. I'm pretty sure that Ernie Johnson, if you heard him on South Beach Sessions and the brotherhood that those people have, I'm just guessing that Charles is staying there and keeping things as is just because he's so close to Ernie and doesn't want to do it with anybody else. And Ernie, weirdly, well, maybe not weirdly, I don't know what the family situation there is in terms of how many people

years he's been working with all of these people he really cares about. But it feels to me like they stayed exactly put and the whole thing stayed together and it stayed together around Ernie more than Charles. Yeah, that I don't know. But certainly that group is very, very close. Love working together, care a lot about each other. And the show has just been, you

immensely successful and as you know I think everybody was very concerned about what would happen to that show in this new broadcast deal with the NBA this is a different subject Sam but I have three words for you and I want your reaction Dwayne Wade statue go

You know, like to me, I sort of I listened to what Dwayne said, and I like the fact that he really focused on the honor of having a statue there and not on, you know, is it the greatest likeness or anything else? I think he really took it as an honor and didn't want anything to take away from that honor. And yeah.

So I have refrained from laughing about it, commenting on it, because there it is. Yeah. You can't look at it and not laugh. You can't even look it in the face. No, I'm not. You can't even look it in the face. No, I cannot. I cannot, but...

But I'm not going to laugh because Dwayne Wade made my entire career. I heard it in your answer. I heard it was such a gentle answer. Everybody on the Internet was laughing at that statue. And here you are still carrying water for Dwayne Wade. No, listen. I mean, the guy made my entire career. I mean, I go home to my house every night and open the door. Nice house. Say thank you, Dwayne Wade. Yeah.

It's a big door. It's a big door of a big house because Dwayne Wade paid for a lot of economies. Stan, you should commission a better looking statue because he made your career. Yeah, first of all, it would be a lot worse if I tried that.

Greg Cody bringing his A game for the last 90 minutes after Chris and I gave him the motivational speech. Keep it moving. Stan, what have you found surprising about the early part of the NBA season? Do you believe, I don't believe anybody will believe that the Cavs can actually knock off the Celtics until six or seven games after it's happened? Yeah, no, I agree with that. I think the Celtics are still...

the team to beat, not only in the East, but in the league. I just don't think anybody's as good as they are. I mean, you've got to remember, they were 14-3 before Porzingis came back last night. And he's a huge piece for them. So fully healthy. I don't think there's any doubt they're the best. A lot has surprised me, though. I've been really surprised by Golden State. Golden State and Cleveland, probably the two most pleasant surprises. I thought Golden State...

ceiling would be to get the ninth or tenth spot and be in the play-in and they have looked outstanding on both ends of the court I mean they're they're a top 10 offensive and defensive team after losing Klay Thompson and you know I they've just played great basketball.

Stan, what do you make of what's going on in Philadelphia with Joel Embiid? What do you make of that entire situation? I just think the guy's hurt. Look, his body clearly struggles to keep up with the demands of playing 82-game NBA seasons. And I think it's unfortunate because at his best, he's the—

the most physically imposing player in the NBA and the guy that you really can't do anything with one-on-one, but he's just never healthy. And that franchise has been built around him and they haven't been able to get past the second round of the playoffs. And now they go out and bring in Paul George and there's all this optimism, but Paul George, another guy who's hurt all the time. And so, you know, one of the things I've said many times is,

You know, when guys when you go out and sign guys who are or extend guys who are always hurt and then they get hurt, that's not bad luck.

That's not, you can't look, ah, we're having such bad luck. No, no, you're getting exactly what you should have expected when you put that roster together. What you're hoping for is that you get something out of the ordinary and those guys stay healthy. And if they were all healthy, those two guys and Maxie, then they'd have a chance to contend in the East. And it's still early. Maybe they'll get to that point. We'll see.

You have them overcoming what it is that they presently have to overcome, 10 games under .500 or whatever it was the last time I looked, with no end in sight to how much time these guys are going to have to miss? Well, that's the problem. How much time are they going to miss? The good thing in the East is Milwaukee is sitting a game below .500 at 8-9, and they're in the sixth spot in the East, which is a guaranteed playoff spot. So, you know...

You know, you don't have a ton of ground to make up to get back. It's just a matter of how much time they're going to have together. Look, talent-wise, they're good. I mean, I really thought they...

and New York were the two teams that had rosters that could best challenge Boston. I didn't see this coming out of Cleveland. I thought they'd be good. Orlando's good. Miami and Milwaukee will be teams that nobody wants to play in the first round of the playoffs, but I thought the only teams that could contend with Boston were New York and Philly. And all of a sudden, New York doesn't guard anybody and Philly doesn't have anybody healthy. Do you understand why Milwaukee stinks?

Well, they looked early in the year. I thought they looked really old and slow, older than they actually are and slow. But they don't have Middleton, and that's a key piece. He was fantastic in the playoffs last year in that series against Indiana. They get him at full strength. But again, he's played 88 games in the last two years, so him being hurt is not a big rarity. But if they get him back with Lillard,

And Giannis, then they've got a chance to be really, really good. They put shooting around those guys, and you would think Lillard's going to play better than he is right now. I mean, he's at a career-low 32% from three. Why would you think he's going to play better?

It's a pretty good sample, and he wasn't in shape last season, and he was allegedly in shape this season. It hasn't fit the way, I don't know, like I thought those were two perfect pieces to have near each other, but his efficiencies haven't been efficient. No, yeah, but last year he wasn't efficient either, but he was at 35% from three on high volume. I don't think he's going to stay at 32%. I don't know if he'll be up around 30%.

40% but he's going to be better they're starting to get into more two-man game stuff with he and Giannis why they haven't done more of that early in the year I'm not really sure I'll be interested to see tonight if they get to more of it because it seems to me over the last three or four games when I've seen it when they get to that action it's pretty darn hard to guard

Guys, we need to make him laugh. This has been too serious so far. I'm sorry that I was distracted. I was looking at Chapter 32, Zen and the Art of Superstar Reliance here. I was finally told, not by Stugatz, he didn't know what chapter it was. That's my favorite one. What do you mean? They had to look it up for me. I'm asking in the back room, what is the chapter stanzant? Stugatz has no idea what you've written about. We had to text stanzant.

I haven't gotten that far in the audiobook. It's chapter 32. Who wrote this? Dude, he said without irony, how does Stan not know what he wrote for my book? I mean, I'm a bit insulted. You don't know what you wrote in your book. Why would you be offended that I don't remember what you wrote? I'm allowed to. You're Stan. I'm Stugatz. I just don't understand what I'm reading here. When I read chapter 32 and I'm told this is the Stan chapter, is this first paragraph Stan or Stugatz? Like, what...

Is this you using reporting? Stan is writing a rebuttal to my opinion that Steve Kerr and Phil Jackson are overrated coaches. That's all. So his first paragraph is, The fact that anyone considered Phil Jackson the greatest NBA coach of all time is laughable. It is laughable, I tell you. Phil Jackson coached Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, and then Dennis Rodman. Eight titles later, he goes to L.A. and coaches Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal and racks up five more. The winning was not following him. I can assure you of that. He was following the winning.

I don't think that was Stan. That was not me. No, that was Stugatz. Stan is the rebuttal to that. Yes, that was not me for sure. I was shocked when I read it. I mean, what is, where is the rebuttal? 197. Okay, that would be a good thing to know. 197 is the rebuttal from Stan. Would you care to read any of this, Stan? Oh, here it is. Stan Van Gundy, a third

Wow. How about that? Some credentials there. You want to read here your rebuttal there, Stan? A little piece of it for the audio version of the book that we are selling today, trying to make a New York Times bestseller. Okay.

I have heard this argument for years that ex-coach only wins because he or she has great talent. My first thought is, well, duh.

No coach wins without great talent. I understand that Phil Jackson had Jordan and Pippen and O'Neal and Bryant. Name me the championship team that didn't have great talent. Popovich had Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, and Manu Ginobili. The Heat won back-to-back titles with LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh. The 80s Lakers won with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson, and James Worthy. The 80s Celtics won with Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, and Robert Parrish.

Red Auerbach was probably the first NBA coach to gain acclaim. And besides Bill Russell and Bob Cousy, he had several other Hall of Famers. Great players are a necessity for winning championships. Everyone knows this, even Stu Gatz. That's not a rebuttal. That's an agreement with Stu Gatz. I thought this was supposed to be a rebuttal. No, no, no. Stu Gatz said that these guys weren't great coaches. Yes, right. Listen, you don't...

win without great talent, but that doesn't negate the fact that these guys have been successful coaches because some people don't win with great talent. I'm just saying with Phil, Stan, eventually someone was going to coach Michael Jordan, the greatest player that's ever lived to six consecutive NBA titles, and it just so happened that it was Phil Jackson.

Yeah, I thought Phil was a hell of a coach. I don't know. From years being on the other bench and stuff, yes, he had great talent. And certainly, I think this is true probably in every sport, the players scare you more than the opposing coaches. I mean, it was Jordan that you were worried about.

But I thought Phil was a great coach. His teams were prepared. Game plans were great. They were sound. You only get that here. Phil Jackson was a great coach. You only get that here on Tuesday. You need my expertise for that. That's right. Phil Jackson was a great coach. Controversial opinion. Well, it is with Stu Gatz. That's fair. But, Stan, when you say some guys have great talent but don't win, do you have any coach in mind in particular? Please, name them.

Stan would never do that. He represents the code of coaching. No, no, no, no, no, no. I would say that it's happening with Doc Rivers right now. And you didn't do it when I asked you. I thought that quite honestly, in 2005, I thought we should have won it here in Miami.

himself oh nice yeah but Dwayne got hurt I I'm just saying I thought we had the uh I thought we had the best team in the league and should have won it in 2005 and I I don't know that we should have won it in Orlando in 2009 but we were certainly good enough to win it in 2009 you reveal exactly how hurt Dwayne was there he was taking shots before like he had a an injury that would make it very difficult for him to play the type of game that he was playing at that time

Listen, I don't... All I ever did as coach is if they said a guy could play, that was it. He was playing and...

I'd take Dwayne Wade at 50% over most guys. You're going to keep putting that statue up. Well, that's the face that he made when he hurt himself. Look, he's screaming. He's clearly screaming there because he's hurt his leg. It's been 20 years. You can use injury as an excuse. I hated playing for Stan Van Gundy so much. He was always screaming at me. It was a pain and a suffering. I've been playing him and his brother.

I know you had nothing to do with your brother. I don't know why I gave him that. How long has to pass before you're allowed to use injury as an excuse? You know what? We still should have won. We should have won game seven here. I thought we were the best team in the league. That's, you know. You had enough. Classic heat culture. When I asked you that question, I wasn't setting you up. I didn't expect you to indict yourself. But that's the one actually I have in mind.

I was going to text you recently and I didn't know what the response would be to it because I was arguing with Stugatz and a bunch of others here, Billy included,

That the way that that game ended against Eric Spolstra against the Pistons where he made the timeout call, the mistake that you never make. I was telling them I believe that the way that person cares about that sport, that that decision will haunt him for the rest of his life. Where it's going to be something that he remembers when he is 90 years old because of how that person cares.

Billy did not agree with me. He's like, it's game 11 of the regular season. What's the context? What are my falsehoods? We said he'll remember it. It will not haunt him. He's won multiple NBA titles. It might bother him. He won't forget it, but he should get over it. It's a regular season game in what will be a long season.

I feel like the debate was, will he tell his grandkids about it when he's rocking with them? No, if Dan is interviewing him on his deathbed, is he going to remember it? I'm going from my deathbed to his deathbed. I'm like, Eric, you still remember that one, right? And he's like, oh yeah, Dan, that one really hurt. Hey, listen, I know Eric well enough, and I think most coaches are the same. You...

you remember the failures far more than you remember the successes. And so I would say that one will haunt him. Yeah, he's still got the championships and four other trips to the finals and all of that. And hopefully he knows...

how much he's accomplished in the league and has some pride in it. But, yeah, that one's not going away. You know, that's just who he is and who most coaches are. He will remember. I will say, yes, the word haunt is probably accurate. Do you reach out to him in that situation or you know better? No, I did reach out to him. I could see the pain. I don't know.

I could see the pain in him at his press conference, you know, and I felt for him. I actually did the same thing in a college game, but I was, you know, that's why these guys who get their first head coaching jobs in the NBA, you know,

amaze me because I was able to make those mistakes. I made that mistake at Castleton State College in Vermont. Still haunts you. Yeah, I remember that. It still haunts me. No one remembers it, but it still haunts me. But I've been there, and when he did it and I watched that press conference, man, I could tell he was in pain. What do you text? No, I just text, I saw your press conference, I feel for you. That's all I see. What does he heart it?

No, he responded to it. That suggests that you and he are real and genuine friends because he doesn't want to hear from anybody after that. He wants to sink into a hole. Yeah, listen. I mean, we all would at that point. But it's just... Listen, when you coach as many games as Eric's coached, you're going to have things like that. Maybe not exactly that, but you're going to have things like that that you would...

love to have back that are embarrassing, humbling, whatever you want to call it. It's just inevitable when you've coached as many games as he has. You have a good sense of history and perspective. Can you please, I know it's been 20 years and perhaps people are numb to the greatness, but we are living in a time of real sports mastery where some of the best to have ever done it are doing it. I was mentioning Shohei Otani yesterday, but LeBron James absolutely

at his age playing this way, Stan, please put it in some sort of context to me because I've never seen a human being this age be able to do that in basketball. And we never will again. I mean, it's just what he's done is incredible. I mean, the closest thing we had to it, I guess, was Kareem playing into his 40s. But

It was a different time and he was at a different position and he wasn't dominating at the end of his career. He was still good, but he wasn't dominating. We've never seen anything like LeBron. He's just, I think still though, the most amazing thing, Dan, you and I have talked about it. The most amazing thing to me is he's had this career where

is unsurpassed in the NBA. He's been in the limelight since he was in the eighth grade.

And what's the dirt you have on this guy? Where's the stain on his reputation? People go back to the decision when he came to Miami where he simply decided to leave one city and come to another. And then they'll talk about he bumped into Eric Spolstra coming off at a timeout. That's what you've got for a guy who's been in the national spotlight for...

How many years? I mean, 30 years, 25 years? It's crazy. Well, he has been weaponized by the right on some stuff where they will point out that he was weak on China and whatnot. But I don't even know if I want to open the door to you in politics right now. No, but those are political opinions. But I'm talking about, like, you know, we don't have DUIs. We don't have him getting in a fight. We don't have him abusing women. We don't have...

any of those things that we've seen news of of others, there's just none of this stuff going on. He's stayed married this whole time. He's got kids that are all doing well. I mean, it's just that to me with what's out there for him and that everyone now, he came of age when everyone's a reporter, everyone.

And we got nothing on him. That to me is as amazing as anything else. The rules changing on Tiger Woods got him, right? The rules changing, the stuff we covered, it sank Tiger Woods. What he's saying is true, that it's hard to fathom, but the degree of difficulty on what he's done off the court rivals what he's done on it.

It does. And when you go to J.J. Barea as the biggest negative to say about LeBron, that's pretty extraordinary. And a TV show. A TV show and J.J. Barea are the big ones. I don't want to open the door to you on Trump, do I? Listen, I mean, it's just the thing that the only thing I'll say is, is I think what bothers me the most is that we have just gotten to the point where

We don't care at all about experience, expertise, facts, things like that. I mean, you know, Pete Hegseth as the Secretary of Defense, and they back it up by saying, well, he served two tours, you know, in Afghanistan and Iraq. And, you know, I went to college, too, and I doubt that I'm going to be the next president of Harvard or Yale. You know, I mean, it's the biggest bureaucracy in the world, the Pentagon, and we're going to put

a talk show host that we're going to put you in charge. Basically, Pete Hegseth really doesn't have any more experience than you do. Congrats. I mean, you know, and then we're going to have like the, and then the scary one, you know, we're going to have Bobby Jr. There. We, people forget vaccines eradicated.

You know, that's what history does. None of us grew up with polio, measles, the mumps. You know why? Because it was eradicated by vaccines. Now, if we have an anti-vaccine guy, what are we going to do? Bring all this stuff. The stuff is scary. It's not inconsequential. And it's sad in my mind that and we could go down his whole list of people. But those are the two to me that

that really make things scary. Who opened this door? Yeah, left it open. I didn't want to open the door. I'm glad I didn't. I'm just glad I didn't. You should have pushed back on your as qualified. Stan, I'm not going to open this as I open the door. I was going to say, I think he did open the door. I don't think I just barged in. I didn't break down the door. He held the door open for you. Yes, he did. I'm not going to open that door for you. I really don't drive. I wouldn't open that door.

I wouldn't open that door. There's no reason to have politics with sports. We don't want to shut up and dribble.

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