K-Pop Trained Rosé to Be ‘a Perfect Girl.’ Now She’s Trying to Be Herself.
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From the new york times, this is the interview and luu Garcia of oral, i'd like to invite you into my refuge when IT all gets to be too much. It's a world of bright color, incredible fashion, perfectly choreograph dance moves and a brilliant ear warmth that bop.

Yep, i'm talking about cap up, if you know, you know, but for those who don't, south korean pop, known as k pop, is a highly stylized art form that has a massive global fan base, giving outside cultural influence to the small country. Words made. This is on stars known as idols, are train, often for years by entertainment companies.

The companies then place the most promising trainees in groups, write and produce their music, and some would say obsessively managed their public image. It's a structure that works for the idols who make IT big, but IT also draws criticism for its growling and what some critics call play ative methods. One of the biggest stars to come out of that system is rose born.

Rose and park SHE trained for years at one of k pop. Largest agencies, Y. G. Entertainment, eventually breaking through as part of the girl group black pin k. Now she's striking out on her own with her first full length solo album called rose.

The lead single is a collaboration with bruno mars and has made history as the first track by a female cap up artist to break into the top ten on the billboard hot one hundred. So roses star keeps rising still. He told me reading her own songs has made her think about where he came from and who SHE is, apart from the system that made her into a global phenomenon. Here's my conversation .

with rosie.

Hi, how are .

you nice with you? A rose is .

how you prefer to be add to what would you like?

Uh, you can call me rosy. I actually it's become a habit lately I used so I usually always introduced myself is really like you can call rose rose whatever you feel comfortable with.

Is there a difference between the two when you think of your is rosy and when you think of yourself is rosy?

Um yes, I think there is a bit of a difference but it's more like a thursday was some know the birthday was a character that I really like told on as a training and you know it's a part of black pink in a Philip rosie is whatever is behind that and what came before that I would say rosie is the definitely character that my friends and family no um but say something you know more like you know I have music on and when I like to be a whole like a devan like dance but then rosie would just be like me at home drowning in my bed so .

this is a huge moment for you you're about to release your first solo album. Can you tell me what are you feeling?

Um I feel like I have been waiting to release this album for my whole life. I would say just going up, you know, I agree up listening to native female artist. I used to relate to them a lot and used to um really get me through a lot of tough times and so I would always dream of one day having an album myself.

But like I never really thought I would be realistic because once I stated like being the industry, I stated noticing there is way more IT goes into IT. Then I expected and I remember last year and I first begun the whole you know the process of IT. I doubted myself a lot um and so I feel like IT feels really IT feels like a dream that i'm about to release this album but I kind of lived in this album for the past year like every single day and so I am ready to be like, okay, get IT out now time for me to move on as well. From that chapter of my life.

you just talked about not having confidence in yourself to do this, which I think probably would be incredibly surprising to anyone who would look at rosy uh with all your success with the enormous fan base that you have um to know that you doubt .

yourself so much I was more afraid of um because I don't think I have learned or trained myself like to be vulnerable and open and honest so that was the part I think I feared because I was the opposite of what I was trying to do and I I really hoped that this album would be exactly that to be vulnerable and a very honest and something that just anyone could relate to um yeah and so that was the part I think I would I feared I think that's the .

perfect opening to talk about how you got to where you are today. You were born in new zealand to south korean immigrant parents and the you move to australia when you were eight. When did you stop playing .

music when I was going on for australia? There's really not much to do there. It's not like solar city or in new york. It's like IT was just school and back home school and then back home and so i'd be really bored. And I my parents had like made me take like piano lessons and so I knew how to play a few cards.

And so i'd like and i've just printing code on paper and then i'd like sing along to IT because I was like, form of entertainment, basically. And then I picked up the guitar because that's when youtube started blowing up. And all these, like people would like cover songs.

And I think that car cool, like, won't be that girl, you know how to make a good time and things. And so I like kicked up the guitar and I practice at at home. Yeah, that was a really organic as a form of entertainment for me.

So in twenty twelve, when you were fifteen, you additionally for a slot in Y G. Entertainment training program, which is basically sort of a boarding school, if you will, for becoming A K pop star. IT was your dad idea right?

Yes, what was that .

that made your dad want you to addition? And did you sort of understand what you are getting into?

Um yes. So like that's when like I was watching youtube a lot and if you would such cap up um that'd be like this whole world in career way like you know there are trainees and they all train and become cape of stars. And so that was kind of like this was a fantasy about IT and I think I would sometimes dream and i'd be like, imagine myself actually doing that and be like it's ridiculous and never happened.

I like that would be so cool but I was not much of a possibility in my head until my dad saw that um I G was flying to australian back then. I was very rare that um korean companies will come to all the way australia. My dad was like brazil, like using every night to like past midnight.

And we have to like drag you back into the room. You obviously like to do this. You should take the audition. And I was like, for me, I really thought he was joking. H, my god, don't even know how to sing properly. And he was like, well, just got to do IT and and if he doesn't work out and he was a fun experience but you don't anna, be like twenty six and regret that you never tried IT was so okay, there was. So we flew to sydney and I took the addition and all that was already like, everyone is so good and I remember being like, okay, that was fun by um but to my surprise day, they called us back and then they ask us to pick up our bags and come to create two months so that's .

what I did I mean, you know becoming a training is full time is based on soul. You had to pack up your life and leave in two months. IT isn't something that seems that you entered lightly. I mean, what were the conversations like in your family when you were deciding whether to stay or go?

My mom was vary against that. The beginning is, obviously he worries about a lot of things which you should and IT was like nothing was promised really um but my dad wine and I think I was too Young to really think about everything. I was more excited.

I didn't even think I knew that I was gonna be living in a dorm with the girls. I, I didn't understand the fact that i'd be apart from my family. I just thought i'd be going.

And wu, i'm in dorm. yeah. And then I remember when I got there, my parents like, okay, we're going now. We're leaving. And I was like, where are you going and they're we have to go now where we have to fly back and I am a freaking out and that's when I hit me like, this is very real.

I mean, that's crazy though, to sort of arrived, they are not realized that that's where you're going to be living and staying there. yes. Did you know much about the korean idle culture at that point?

I did because that's again when youtube started blowing up and we were like they were releasing ing a lot of content in korea about the training life and IT was a bit glamorized shore IT IT looks really like everyone's chasing their dreams and working so hard and but I I think I didn't understand the lonely part like the lonely that I would have to go through. That was a bit traub I made of IT shocking but you know I I survived IT. I think a lot .

of people outside of crea don't quite understand how intense the process is to become an idle. Um what was the typical day like for you?

So for us, the schedule is like we would wake up and I had to wake up at like nine thirty, I remember, because I needed to take a shower. And then and then would be a dance hall that we all shared between us, seventy eight goals. And we would have like vocal lessons and dance lessons and language lessons all set up and then practice would end two A M but if you for me, like I want the whole to myself. So there are many days with when you just stay back and use the whole after hours um and then I just would repeat like that every single day.

you were clearly very driven to want to to make this work.

I think a big part of that was because I had travelled so far for IT. For me it's if I failed here then I would have to fly the way back to australia and all my friends who asked me, where were you going? I don't understand what you're doing.

I didn't want to to have to explain to them the process of view, you know, fAiling and flying back. And so I could not let that happen. And IT drives me to be more determined.

I me IT doesn't think about you. The you ve had so much discipline and so much drive that you wanted to sort of get to a place.

I think I learned that about myself when I got to Y G. IT wasn't something that I had before and that I got me there was more like I got there and then I was put in that situation and that's when I learned so much about myself and I am very yeah very like determined and that's when I learned of like this is the type of person I I read.

You get only one day off every two weeks.

Yes.

what did you do on on your day off?

This is from thailand as well. So listen, I didn't have friends or family that. So we had .

another member of black pink.

Yes, another black pink. We are in the same room and so we'd wake up and H I going to church and so i'd meet her after church and then we'd go shopping and go to our favorite stores. Um we remember this place called beyond back then.

We don't go there anymore, but we would go to Young and like go shopping. And then I remember we always pass, like Jordan was like a fake thing, the sneakers, nike Jordan, I remember. And like I was like such a big hype fact them, but he was so expensive.

So we'd always created the store and like, look at all the the shoes and be like, it's so pretty, like this is so expensive. I really want this and we went be able to buy. And so I feel like maybe next time and we d actually go shopping for the things that we had to wear for for training for, like for training, we'd have to do this like weekly and like monthly tests.

And so for that we need to look good, so we'd have to style ourselves. But like, you know, we didn't know much about clothes. And you know, with the money that my every parents would send us, would like go out and like try to look good.

And um so is like a constant you know a battle of proving to the company that this is where we are. This is the artist that I can be, the city S I am. And to be an artist, like fashion is a big part of IT and how we present themselves as an artist. And sir, like we're not really hot on that.

The idea here is that they're training you to be this huge star. So in addition to singing and dancing, did you get instruction on like a public facing aspects of the job that they try to prepare you for what fame might be like?

Not not necessarily. I personally think that especially ask for like like pink. We're very we're all smart enough to be to navigate our way through, and we're very responsible.

And so i'm guessing that's why we know we got selected. I IT know I had just believe that, but yeah, it's not like they like told us anything specific like this is what you're going to be going through. Mentally accepted.

I was like, yeah, was more organic than that. I think if that was all taught as well as this seems a bit weird. IT seems very like very planned, but we were there for music and so we sweat on music.

You're at the academy for four years. Some of the people who train, they are trained for six or seven years. Does IT seem like a .

good system will be. Personally, I still talk about IT sometimes, and I say, I am like talking to my producer, and I say, I really miss the days where I was given all the time in the world to work on my music. And I said at the time, I was like endless hours, and sometimes I was hopeful.

Sometimes I felt like felt hopeless, but I think they've done inside. I really enjoyed IT being able to live in that with all the time. Like I think that was like a really special moment that i'm never probably gonna be able to get back to just solely do that. And I tell I, I say i'm like I when I look at track chinese and and the girls I like, they are like coming up. I I really think I like, I am, I am that kind of because even though was mentally chAllenging, I think the rainy days of me posting through all those hard gifts has you know, helped me, you know, do these things for myself even to this day.

Yeah, I mean, that sounds like a lot to navigate. What was IT like when all of a sudden black king comes out and IT just becomes an immediate success? What was the transition like from being a training with all the time in the world to do your music to suddenly becoming an actual pop star?

I think that might have been the maybe the highest spite for me, because I think change being a training, yes, settling until this whole new world with people you don't know that is chAllenging. But I was still off camera and I got to make mistakes. But I feel like the transition of now having to be on camera and being an artist in presenting to the world who I am, that's something we just had to learn as we went. So I think the first few years was very difficult for me um personally but you know few years in I started picking IT up and and learning yeah what was hard about IT. I think it's still hard to actually and the kind of never stopped since then.

I mean, what i'm hearing is that you had to find out who you were in the glare of this very big spotlight. And you know, one of the things that is unique about k pop is that the fan culture is so specific and so enormous. Can you tell me a little bit about that relationship? I mean, how authentic did you feel like you could be? How a something did you want na be?

I mean, I felt like we were trained to always present ourselves enormous, perfect, like perfect way. And so even when we were like interacting with them online, IT was when I was ready to give perfect dances and and give them what people what they wanted and making sure that i'm a perfect girl for everyone. Um so I think that that's kind of that was the culture and that's why leading into this album IT was a little bit of a IT is more personal one in need to to be able to write an album that I grew up like I i'd listen to music that I felt like I could relate to um but in order for that, i'm sure like artists had to be vulnerable. But you know we hadn't trained to talk about our emotions and feelings and .

experiences so IT must have been scary yeah to do this because this is a very personal album. Let's talk about rosie .

when .

you had to sit down with yourself and write this album. What was that like to have to dig deep.

to be honest, like doing IT. IT was that was like breathing. All the stories in there are stories at, know anyone around me has heard more than twenty times.

IT was about time I rode in a song, but IT was like, had moments. I was like, what can we say this? Wait, maybe we shouldn't put that word in there.

Maybe this is too much. We not. And then I think IT was like the process of me letting that go.

What's the fear though, when you saying I don't want to put that in there?

Um like I guess first like I mean, i'm talking i'm talking about very Normal experiences that a Normal twenty the girl in twenties is going through. And so like I said there there's a whole words and a whole life behind our screen where I experience things that my fans hasn't really heard about or seen and talked about and so like sometimes that does scare me.

It's like, yeah, can I share the sight of me and am I love to talk about this yeah, but not even like crazy things to be on. This is very Normal thing. So that sounds like i'm going to talk good if you talking about some crazy experience is not really that crazy is very Normal things.

Now the themes are hard, ache, lost love, um anger, sometimes at people, I mean the range of human emotions yeah .

romance but even that is like it's scary for me so that was yeah IT was like I could see like the faces in the producers and right as ever, like so interesting. Worse, why are you so notice without this? And i'm like you guys, you don't know well.

I mean, i've i've seen reporting that you know cape up agencies have strict rules when IT comes to dating and in part maybe because they want fans to feel like idles are in a relationship with them. Is that part of the fear that is not Normal for stars to necessarily share that yeah IT was not Normal .

as IT is not Normal but also it's just not Normal for me too like I had never really spoken about IT because I feel like this no need for me to ever confirm anything or talk about IT. But I think that's why like this album means a lot to me because this is like these things are just inspirations for my art. So I do I do want to make sure that that's like very well addressed. The fact that it's not about the story of who rosie has been with or whatever who is really more about the art and it's scary. It's it's it's kind of unfair that I have to think about that part of IT because really again, its its his alarm elemental of inspiration.

I can hear you drawing a boundary. You know that your personal life is your personal life, which I totally respect. I was really struck by one particular song of the album, which is called number one girl, oh yes.

When I listened, IT felt like I could be about romantic relationship, or about a relationship with family celebrity. One of the lives goes, tell me i'm that new thing. Tell me that i'm relevant. Can you talk to me a little bit about that song?

Yeah, that song was written after a terrible night of scoring. Student, feel like six A M, and I barely got any sleep. I rocked up to the to the next day very cranky and they asked me, how have you been and I was like, very bad. I'm so exhausted. I'm exhausted trying to please everyone. Um i'm always just trying my best to be my best version but I felt a little lost and felt like I was never good enough and I was like cranky, cranky against the world, just the universe and I was like, you know I want to to write a song just so disgustingly open and honest like you know, things that I hate myself for like thinking I said, like all those thoughts that written in those lyrics are thoughts that I don't want to admit that I actually think because I think i'd like to present myself as a very positive girl who's like just who doesn't think about negative things, who's very just bright minded and what not but I think that was honestly the day as I know I have these days.

What were you watching online? What were you seeing again.

let's comment. You like just searching topics that we're not going to necessarily satisfy me and I just like go down like rabbit holes of of negative comments and just and I I don't think I knew I I didn't understand what I was searching for as well, but I was looking for a validation and and I felt like, wow, IT was a lonely world that night in that on on the internet um social media was a lonely world and as I was writing the song I felt there must be so many other girls who experiences this and and so I just want people to know that i'm i'm no different what does vampire holy mean cause your .

vampire e holy was another day of .

those because you is your new handle on instagram and .

one of the songs on the album and I can't let you break me like this is one of the lines yeah tell me about that yeah um van holy was my prive instagram .

I can't um was just an account that I made so that I didn't have to be like because my official account is like has a lot of followers and I also have to think about what people gna think of me but I wanted instagram R I just felt just didn't have to be cool.

It's your fine sa it's .

my fine sa and it's what I just used. Um and then I remember you know a few fans found out about the instagram and then I think they started getting they would you know there are certain people who who want to be negative and they they are trying to find all the ways to get to me and I guess they ended up getting to that account and then using that to like cause drama and and create actually trigger me and I they were if that like obviously they were assessed with the thought of like controlling me and, you know but then I had felt I was obsessed back. But then I remember after a breath that I let IT all go and I never went back to IT again.

There is a big antti fan movement in cap p um where there's a lot of bullying online, especially a female artists. And IT sounds like this was part of that you were experiencing that I think.

sir, I don't know. I want to get emotional about IT. 没关系， i think like um I didn't think that I I would say i'm pretty strong mind IT as well。 I'm pretty like i'm not that like I am very positive as well.

And i'd like to be smart about you know how things affect me. But I think I remember when I felt like I actually did get to me that like if held pretty, pretty bad was like, oh, my gosh, I am going through this and never. I never thought I would.

I think I would see things online and I always think it's interesting, just like, do they let that get to them? But I remember when I did, I was shocked. Yeah.

i'm sorry that that happened to you. 嗯， and I know you've talked about your own mental health and how demanding IT can feel to protect yourself from this stuff. Ah, what do you do?

Well, in this case, now that I found song writing, well, writing in the song, life gives you lemons. You make laminate.

I think that was the only thing I was kind of surprising because song writing came to me is like a blessing um at the the moment I really needed IT and I was like, wow, out walking with a big problem at at a story in a song and IT would leave my mind to believe my heart and sir, as easy as that sounds that the song writing is helped me like I actually like leaves my soul as I leave in in a song but then there there are some days where I don't like the song and I like that doesn't help that didn't help that songs not going to be in the album. I'm still suffering now. So we Better right? It's kind of IT was actually like that.

I think I ended up I was so addicted to song writing at one point because i'd have these concept tors I I wanted to write about then would paint IT, but IT wouldn't be the right image. And I be like now, oh, like, yeah. But IT, that's not what I wanted to say.

Okay, scratched that again, again, again. And then I get the song and I feel like, yes, and i'd actually heal for me. And I would never actually think about IT again because IT is really just lives in that song and IT actually heals me. interesting.

After the break, I call rosie back, and he tells me about what's next for black pink as its four members pursue their solo careers.

I think we all have obviously love for black pink, but I think we were, I would say, mature enough to come to a conclusion that order for us to continue this in a healthy way. We also have to acknowledge that we all have also individual needs. And once.

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we still have to talk about the bottle warmer.

Hi, thanks for talking to me again. I want to a start by asking you about the idea of the seven year, a curse in k pop, which refers to the trend of groups to spending around their seven year to, and that kind of coincides sometimes with record contracts expiring. But black pink just resigned with Y.

G. entertainment. And twenty twenty three. So, you know, you have all gone often had solo projects. Did you ever think about breaking up when you were going off to explore what the solo experience was?

Gonna be IT was definite a moment of all of us sitting down and thinking about what we wanted individually or four of us because know it's a group before like we all have to make decision um on behalf of like what we really, truly wanted and so IT wasn't like a quick decision. IT was over A A few months like started thinking about IT in advance.

Um I think as we all like we communicated a lot and we just like we I think we all have obviously love for black pink and performing is black pink. But I think we were, I would say, much enough to come to a conclusion that in order for us to continue this in a healthy way and maintain that passion um in the long run, we also have to acknowledge that we all have also individual needs. And once and so we came to a healthy inclusion of you know we sure we all kind of got to do what we wanted to do for a good period of time and then get together.

So that's what's happening next year. Would be black pink. Um we would probably be releasing music and um we're set for to I I do wanted ask .

you another thing about the training system because I heard you say that for you, your time as a trainee was basically pretty positive. You described IT as a period where you really dedicated all your time to doing the thing that you loved. But you know, i've read a lot about how the system has been criticized in the cultural also legally, as being exploitive financially may be even emotionally, their been allegations of abuse. And so I guess I was wondering, do you think that the system overall is a good way to help nurture Young art and artists?

I personally, because I started so late, I started at sixteen. This is just like a personal experience for me. But I had like a good system because we had like our producer teddy, and you know, people looking up for us and taking care of us.

So I personally felt like IT really helped me quickly pick up on because I had short of time and all the other goals, and they really they got me to train in such a short amount of time so I could be as good as the other girls. And that's how I got my career, and I get to do what I do today ARM. And so like for me, it's been a pretty good experience.

but IT might have been harder if you'd had to do IT longer or .

started Younger. I wouldn't know, because I have been. I I just wondering.

would you recommend that a teenage girl take the same path that you did?

I think if you have a dream and the determination, then go for IT. IT was like, exactly what my dad said. I was like me, like dad, I ve never done like a vocalist in my life.

I don't know how to do anything I don't know, never danced in my life and i'm like, I was sixteen and so but he was like, grey, if you if you love that, you try IT. And if you don't regret in tennis, you Better try IT now. And that was of probably the best advice.

And and I went there and I discovered my, you know, my determination, and, you know, that's what I had, and I had to drive. I remember parents would be like rosie, just like because I he was hard it's not IT was not easy at all and I called crying and that be like, come home and that would be the last thing i'd want to here be like, no, we are going. Home is not an option.

I'm going to make this happen. And we did that. We came out as back thinking, i'm here today. So I think IT .

was writing .

for me. I was.

do you think IT change to you were everything that you went through, A Y G. And this whole crazy journey .

that you've just described, not really I think who I am yeah like inside I think I think if I talk to my mom and my sister in my like dad like I feeling this has always been me like my personality IT was just I guess when I went to korea, that's when I opened up and that's when I start to see all this is me as a person. Maybe IT is may be he hasn't that.

I don't know if that something I can say, I guess something we have to ask the people around me. I don't know, I don't know. I don't know about myself for IT really.

I think as I asked a lot of my friends about was like what you think I was I to know? Do you think I think I was that? No, I like to ask around.

That's for a her album rosy will be out on .

december six. This conversation .

was produced by wide ARM IT was edited by animal bacon, mixing by a fume superior original music by women, moto dan power and marine lizana photography by phillip on guy or senior booker is pria Matthew and safe Kelly is our senior producer. Our executive producer is alison benedict. Special thanks to dal Young, gen.

ROI walsh when umbrel, jeffrey Manda, nick pen, mam elo, j. Silverstein, policeman sam donc, if you like what you're hearing, follow or subscribed to the interview, whether you get your podcast to read or listen to any of our conversations, you can always go to n times. Dog com slashed the interview, and you can email us anytime at the interview at N Y time.

Stock com. We're off next week for thanksgiving, but we'll have an episode of modern love for you to enjoy and will be back in two weeks when David talks to actress till this winter and blue garci in a row. And this is the interview from the new york times.