Kamala's Fox Flamout?
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Hey everybody, today on the Charlie Kirk Show, Ari Fleischer joins the program as we discuss the state of the media and the very eventful conversation between Brett Baier and Kamala Harris. And then Michael Seifert from Public Square joins us, great American. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Subscribe to our podcast.

Open up your podcast application and type in Charlie Kirk Show. And as always, become a member today. Members.CharlieKirk.com. That is Members.CharlieKirk.com. Get involved at Turning Point USA today at TPUSA.com. That is TPUSA.com. Start a high school or college chapter today at TPUSA.com. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky.

to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.

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Super long lines right now in one of the most conservative parts of North Carolina. It's right on the coast. Super long lines. This is right wing central out there. It is called, let me make sure I get this right, Kerrituck County. Kerritick County. Kerritick. I think that's how you say it. Kerritick County.

population, 27,000 people right on the coast, right near the Carrutic Sound. I've been to a lot of places. I've, of course, been to North Carolina. I've never been to that part of North Carolina, eastern, eastern, right near Kitty Hawk. And that's where the Wright brothers found flight, right? If I'm not mistaken, Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. I could be wrong.

That's just drawing from memory. We will be in Eastern Carolina University at some point. Wilmington, we have a big event out there, but that's actually a ways away. The coast of North Carolina is massive. It's underappreciated, actually, about how significant the coast of North Carolina is. I've never actually really spent time on the coast. I'm told it's very beautiful and really nice. So anyway, we got a picture here. Let's load it up. That is the line right there for early voting.

in Coretta County, North Carolina. Pretty significant. Massive surge, more so than 2020. Like running circles around 2020 when it comes to turnout. Joining us now is Ari Fleischer to help us, let's just say, understand what happened with the Brett Baer, Kamala Harris interview. Ari, welcome to the program. Ari, give us your expert analysis of that interview.

Well, frankly, I think it's a Rorschach test. I think if you're a Republican, you saw an incompetent leader who talks in circles, who can't put together a substantive answer to anything. And on immigration, she refused to acknowledge that the Biden administration is the cause of all these millions of people coming in across the border. If you're a Democrat, you probably saw her

Give it to Brett Baier, stand her ground, fight for the position she believed in and go into the lion's den. I really think it was that type of interview. It wasn't like the Biden debate where everybody agreed Biden fell down and collapsed.

I think both sides had something on this. But my biggest takeaway is she refuses to admit how bad the situation is at the border because of what she and Joe Biden did. Yeah, let's play some of that. I want to play some of that tape here. And I agree. I will say that she her her failure to answer very basic questions is remarkable, right?

So let's go to this one here. We'll kind of jump around. Let's go to cut 88. 70% of people think the country is on the wrong track. Let's play cut 88. More than 70% of people tell the country is on the wrong track. They say the country is on the wrong track. If it's on the wrong track.

That track follows three and a half years of you being vice president and President Biden being president. That is what they're saying, 79% of them. Why are they saying that? If you're turning the page, you've been in office for three and a half years. And Donald Trump has been running for office. But you've been the person holding the office. Come on. You and I both know what I'm talking about. You and I both know what I'm talking about. I actually don't. What are you talking about? What I'm talking about is that over the last decade...

People have become, but listen. Ari, your reaction. What are you talking about? One of the best moments I've seen in quite some time. I love that answer. Over the last decade,

You realize who was the president a decade ago? Barack Obama. It was Obama. He was the president a decade ago. So she will blame anybody and everybody other than herself and Joe Biden for the very things that are happening now in America and especially on the border. The very things happening in our cities due to crime. The very things that happen with inflation due to their spending policies.

That was a classic case of denying everything that happened under her watch and blaming everybody else, including Obama and Trump. And I just think the American people don't want to hear that. The American people want to hear about we have problems. These are the problems. This is what I'll do about it. She just goes right to this is what I'll do about it as if she had nothing to do with creating the problems in the first place.

I think that's spot on. Let's play another piece of tape here, and I want to get your analysis. And by the way, they're calling it an ambush. Yeah, a tough interview is an ambush. Welcome to the daily life of Donald Trump. It's just these people are unbelievable. Actually, I want to get your analysis here. Cut 87. This was the moment where Kamala Harris's team decided to wrap up the interview because, again, how her team was handling this. There's a lot of drama here. Let's play cut 87. ...and Brett.

Madam Vice President, it was a policy decision in the early part of your administration. I will let one of the mothers talk about it. Take a listen.

Because of the Biden-Harris administration open border policies catch and release, they were enrolled in the alternatives to detention program. This meant that they were released into the United States. It was not even a full three weeks later that they would take my daughter Jocelyn Nungere's life. I believe the Biden-Harris administration open border policies are responsible for the death of my daughter.

That's the early days. So do you owe them an apology is what I'm saying. I will tell you that I am so sorry for her loss. I am so sorry for her loss, sincerely. But let's talk about what is happening right now with an individual who does not want to participate in solutions. Ari, it just feels awfully clumsy to me, your reaction. This is the administration, Charlie, that was handed the solution the day they took office.

Trump's policies had secured the border in a way that wasn't done previously. And it was working. And they deliberately undid it all. And this is what she, again, refuses to acknowledge or admit. And then she just says, we're going to flip the page as if she'd forgot that her picture is on all the pages she's trying to flip. Because she's the book we currently are reading. It's her administration and Biden's. It's just avoidance.

refusal to take responsibility for the biggest issue. But, you know, Charlie, when it comes to the border, what drives me crazy about the Democrats who talk about the bipartisan congressional bill, everybody should have been for it. Do you honestly think there's anybody sitting in Venezuela right now who has a subscription to Congressional Quarterly and is studying the text of the bill that the Congress may pass and whether or not the delta in funding between FY23 and 24 will go up by 2.4 percent?

They're looking at it and saying, Biden's the president. He wants us. We can get in. Harris, she said she was going to decriminalize. We can get in. Trump, Trump's crazy. He's going to keep us out. That's what it comes down to.

People fear Donald Trump. And it's to Trump's credit. So really quick, Ari, can you analyze Brett's performance? I thought Brett did very well. He asked great questions. People say, oh, he came in too hot. Hold on a second. You only think that because she's never received any tough questions for her entire career. You know what's hot? I'll tell you what hot is. When Donald Trump is just sitting down with an economic club in Chicago, that was much spicier than we saw there. Your analysis of Brett Baier's performance.

You nailed it, Charlie. What was hot was Donald Trump going for the National Association of Black Broadcasters and getting grilled and grilled right from the start. They didn't even say, hello, how are you? They went right for the right for the throat. Look, Brett Barrett did journalism last night. And when you're Kamala Harris and you're the San Francisco D.A., you are used to a cocoon of liberal softball questions thrown at you by an adoring media. The

The same thing when you're at the White House and you're a Democrat. You get the same supportive media. She finally met a reporter who actually asked her hard questions.

And it was uncomfortable for her, visibly uncomfortable in several instances. But this is what journalism should be in both directions for all candidates. Sadly, it's only for Trump. It's rarely for the Democrats. Well said, Ari Fleischer. Thank you so much. Thank you, Charlie. Great to be with you. Thank you. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. By the way, there is some, yes, I know I mispronounced the county. Okay. I apologize. It is

is that right my goodness no hold on no no it's currituck that i'm sorry sorry it's currituck currituck thank you i mean no offense okay i only got i'm not kidding you i got 122 emails on this which is good that's a good sign we got a lot of faithful in currituck county i i gotta go visit i apologize

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Barack Obama and Joe Biden were just caught on a hot mic. Very interesting. Joe Biden just said, you can't hear much on this. We'll just play it as B-roll. It's not a hot mic. It is a they were at Ethel Kennedy's funeral and a lip reader read the lips of Joe Biden and Barack Obama. And Joe Biden said, quote, she's not as strong as me.

Obama says, I know that's true. We have time. I wonder what you mean by that. We have time. Awfully opaque, a little suspicious. We have time. You got to think about that. And also the third president at the funeral, Bill Clinton, also backstabbed Kamala the other day. So you got three presidents at a funeral who are all bearish on Kamala. It's not going well right now with Kamala Harris and the Democrat Party. And that's them right there chatting. Joe Biden and Barack Obama.

Maybe they have time to burn the papers. Maybe they have time to cover up what they've been doing. Maybe they have time to, they don't have time to pull her as a candidate. Should definitely keep you guys a little bit on edge right now. The Democrats are going to try some dramatic things. And the best thing we can do is to make it too big to rig and to overwhelm them at the polls. But let me just repeat what they said. Biden, she's not as strong as me. Barack Obama, I know. That's true. We have time.

What do you think that means? Email me freedom at charliekirk.com. That kind of back and forth. Freedom at charliekirk.com. I want to play some tape here as we try to dissect what that all means. This is North Carolina. Voting in North Carolina is open now.

and is happening right now. Let's play cut 74. We were better off when Trump was in. Play cut 74. Grit is what they all say Trump has. We're better off when Trump was in than we are today. Because prices were lower.

Everything was better. You got the immigrants, you got the economy, you got the wars overseas. We don't really feel like right now that we have anybody at all looking after all this. We need somebody to take command. Nearly everyone we spoke to at Country Kitchen wanted Trump back in the White House. If we get Trump, we got hope. If we get Kamala, we don't have any hope. It's gone. It's gone. Country's gone.

I like that guy. Again, the National Geographic correspondent, it's gone? What? It is gone. That's exactly right. The country might cease to exist. This is an election for the survival of the nation. It is an election for the survival of what we care about most. It is civilizational survival.

Let's go to this cut here. An Arizona voter who lives right on the border in Yuma, which used to be a Democrat county. Let's play cut 11. Well, my my decision is I live right on the border in Yuma, Arizona. And I know in the last three and a half years, we have had just horrible, horrible problems in Yuma with voters.

A lot of illegal immigration coming through. Our economy is awful. Yuma's unemployment is 16%. So the economy is a big factor as well. Just a combination of things. Our groceries have gone up. Just...

Just everything has just really gone downhill in the last three and a half years for us in Yuma and Arizona completely. And meanwhile, you are seeing Republicans gain a voter identification advantage nationally. This is an amazing clip. Play cut 12. All right. So party ID nationally. You go to October, November of 2016. Democrats had a three point advantage. You go four years ago. Democrats had a six point advantage. Look at where we are today. Republicans.

Republicans with a one-point advantage. A very different picture, very much mirroring what we see in the party registration numbers in those key battleground states, and Pennsylvania in particular. And you know the GOP leads by a point in party identification right now. The average when the Republican Party loses...

Is the Democrats ahead by eight? When the Republican Party wins, the average party ID advantage for Democrats is three. Republicans right now, Manu, are doing even better than the average when they win. If there's one little nugget that I think Republicans are really helpful for, it's this party ID and this party registration data. It really points in a good direction for them and for Donald Trump. But now we have to show up.

And that is exactly what we need to do. It doesn't matter what the Democrats think they can do. We outnumber them and we must make it too big to rig. Make it too big to rig. My sister's almost 40 and she's never voted. Being more of a liberal, I never pushed her to. But this year, this one, an email. This year, she's sick of all the craziness and it's affecting her kid's school. I got her registered, but she's a little confused by the ballot process. So I'm taking her lunch this week and walk her through it. She's excited to vote for Trump and the GOP.

Find a new voter and get them to go vote.

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Okay, joining us now is Michael Seifert, who has just made some huge news. Public Square CEO Michael Seifert joins legal effort to defend religious freedom. Michael, welcome to the program. Tell us all about it. Charlie, good to see you. Yes, we are happy to announce that yesterday we joined in a lawsuit in federal court with the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, an incredible organization run by a true hero of our faith and our conservative values.

against the HHS and the EEOC. And for those who are not familiar, that is the Health and Human Services and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission under the Biden administration. And the reason that we are filing this lawsuit to challenge those two departments that are really bureaucratic cesspools now that are vehemently anti-Christian in their practices is because

Under the Biden and Kamala administration, back in April, the EEOC issued a declaration that essentially said that employers are forced to utilize health care coverage that mandates the coverage of abortion care and of gender transition surgeries.

The HHS also joined in interpreting a rule out of the Biden administration that was essentially a alteration of part of the Affordable Care Act that pushed forth the idea that whether you were on a group plan or a self-funded plan, which are really your only two options as an employer,

You are mandated with your healthcare provider to cover gender reassignment surgeries. They reinterpreted the definition of sex to include abortion. So you're also forced to cover abortion as a company that is seeking to provide healthcare coverage for your employees.

And not only is this an egregious act against all employers in our country, because it's a total distortion of what sex means, what life means. It is an egregious interpretation of law that was actually never supposed to mean this. But it also is directly in conflict with the Constitution and the desire that our religious liberties would be protected. It is our most fundamental right as Americans that our religious rights would not be infringed

That includes as an employer, as an owner of a company, I should not be forced to provide and pay for or force my employees to pay for healthcare coverage that will infringe upon my deeply held religious beliefs and the religious beliefs of my employees. And right now out of the Biden administration, after these rulings in April that pushed for gender reassignment surgery, coverage of abortion, uh,

This is the position we find ourselves in, and we are wanting to put a stop to it. So help me understand this. So the EEOC and the Department of Health and Human Services, without an act of Congress, can force you, a private company, to do what exactly? Just get as specific as you can.

Yep. So the EEOC issued a declaration that implements what's called the Pregnant Workers Fairness Act. And this act actually started with good intentions. It was this idea that employers with 15 or more employees should accommodate female employees in regards to pregnancy and childbirth. We're all for that. In fact, we at Public Square give a baby bonus to new parents, $5,000 after taxes, because we support the expansion of families. Here's the problem.

The EEOC bureaucracy has now essentially expanded this employer accommodation mandate to include female employees seeking abortion. So it used to be about ensuring that women could act on their desire to both have a career and to be a devoted mother.

And that included paid time off that was set within certain standards. But now the EEOC has said, yeah, that Pregnancy Workers Fairness Act that was a law, we're going to interpret it with a different definition of what being fair means. And we are going to include abortion. And if you do not, we will penalize either the health insurance provider or the company. And then the HHS took it even further.

They issued on April 25th of 2024, a new regulation interpreting section 1557 of the Affordable Care Act. This section forbids discrimination in health programs in regard to sex. So it says that a health insurance provider or a company that is utilizing a healthcare plan, whether self-funded or a group plan,

It was intended to say that you can't discriminate based upon sex, which means male or female. But the HHS said, no, that's not enough. We are going to reinterpret the definition of sex in the Affordable Care Act to mean and include termination of pregnancy and imposing with that a surgical and chemical abortion health care plan coverage mandate, along with gender affirming care in their health care plans, which means that

If we as an employer or if our health care provider that we utilize for all of our employee plans refuses to offer puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, top and bottom surgeries, gender conforming cosmetic surgery, and a host of other affirming practices paid for by the employer, that we are in violation of the Affordable Care Act as interpreted by the HHS.

So they're essentially going around the law to reinterpret, to harm our companies. Wasn't there some legal breakthrough on this when the Little Sisters of the Poor having to fund abortions? Is that correct, Michael? Is my memory right there? You're right. And Hobby Lobby was also a very historically precedent-setting case related to employers being forced to pay for abortion coverage for employees.

Unfortunately, the bureaucrats keep on at it and they refuse to acknowledge historical case precedent that has laid the groundwork for two things predominantly. Number one, an employer should not be forced to violate their conscience or their religious beliefs in the effort to provide justice.

sustainable and helpful healthcare coverage to its employees. But the other thing is this summer, Chevron doctrine was actually overturned in the Supreme Court. It was one of the biggest cases. You talked about this on your show. The Chevron deference ruling that actually overturned

50 years now of what was truly unconstitutional actions out of bureaucrats should apply here as well. We should see that bureaucrats are no longer able to interpret the law to further their own agenda and then enforce

that interpretation outside of the confines of what the legislation has already deemed the law. And so Charlie, the reason we feel a great deal of confidence about this case is exactly what you just mentioned. We have history on our side and we have the Constitution on our side. The Supreme Court has ruled multiple times that employers like ours

are not subject to the violation of our religious beliefs in order to provide health care coverage to our employees. The Biden administration has tried to double down. And what they're trying to do here ultimately is they're trying to test folks to see if anybody will push at them in their hopes that they can hopefully reverse case precedent and have a new ruling that says, no, you know what? The court's now ruled in our favor and we can mandate gender affirming care

what they call it, which is actually body mutilation. And they also want to establish that abortion, if Roe v. Wade is overturned, which thank God it has been, it's not enough for them to say, okay, well, it goes back to the states. What they're trying to do now is say, well, we're going to go around the law to ensure that at least in corporate America, we can have them by a stranglehold and ensure that abortions are still funded and that the industry is strong.

So this is them utilizing action out of the executive branch and out of a fourth branch of government, which is the unelected bureaucracy, in order to punish anybody that stands against the regime that is deeply held to their religious beliefs. And we're caught in the crossfire here and we're taking a stand.

So Michael, this is so instructive. Can you also just educate our audience on why you guys at Public Square feel so convicted to do this because you represent a community of other businesses? You are kind of the vanguard and the tip of the spear on behalf of, I mean, I hate to say you're like the Chamber of Commerce, but this is what the Chamber of Commerce should be doing if it wasn't what it is now. Can you talk about that? Because you're a representative of over 800,000 vendors and businesses.

Yeah, we actually have a network of about 5 million consumers that are also often very active employees. We have over 85,000 business vendors on Public Square alone that trust us to be their voice. And you're right.

entities like the Chamber of Commerce for a long time tried to tout themselves as the champion of small business, the champion of employers, and they were going to help businesses stand on sturdy footing and fight the battles of the time that were necessary to ensure their survival. But the Chamber of Commerce now has become a globalist-run cesspool that is more beholden to K Street, Wall Street, and 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue rather than

an entity that is championing their original charter. They also are massively in favor of illegal immigration. They're in favor of abortion. And all of these practices harm the small businesses that we have really felt a calling to represent. So number one, Charlie, is you're right. We want to be a voice for small businesses that maybe don't have the manpower or they don't have the time to be able to fight these legislative battles or these judicial battles that can hopefully secure their freedoms in the long term. The other reason we do this is because

Over 60% of our, actually over 67%, Charlie, of our ownership in our company, even as a publicly traded company, is actually held by Christians. Over 67% of voting rights at our company is represented by deeply devoted people of faith that would declare that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior. And

When they invest in our company, they hope that we will fight the battles. They hope that we will take a stand to ensure that we as a company are not funding health care plans that actually act completely antithetically to our values. And so we're doing this not just for our merchants and for our consumers that trust us to be their voice. We're also doing this for the investors. And the final thing I'll say, Charlie, we're doing this because I couldn't sleep at night if we didn't.

From the beginning of our company, we named it Public Square because when Jesus is talking to Simon Peter in Matthew 15, and he's looking at this rock in Israel, and he's pointing to it, and there's a gate at the bottom of the rock, a big cavern, and they used to call that Hades. And Jesus said, Simon Peter, on this rock, I will build my ecclesiae.

That's what he said. And that word in Greek, ekklesia, we've sort of thought of as the church. But if you actually translate that to a modern translation, the closest mirroring of that word actually means the public square. When Jesus was looking at Peter, he says, on this rock, I will build my public square. It means not just four walls of a church. It means that your faith conviction should go out everywhere in society and should impact your business, the way you employ people, the way you serve your customers and your merchants.

And so for us, Charlie, we have to do this because it is honoring the original convictions that built our business, that named it public square in the first place. And I need to know for the future of our economy with blessed assurance that employers like me and there are millions of them are not going to be forced to violate our convictions in order to produce a healthy business. Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here. A large retail store just canceled a huge order, leaving my pillow with a ton of extra pillows.

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So, Michael, I want you to comment on what Kamala Harris's specific proposal on taxing unrealized gains would mean for your your company and for the vendors you work with. Explain it to someone who is not in the weeds of startups, businesses. What would that mean for the economy in general and for your incredibly important venture?

Well, it's wild we're even having this conversation, Charlie, because never in a million years did I think I would live to see the day where a candidate would be so openly communist that they would even debate throwing out a proposal like this and saying it publicly. We've known that they say this behind closed doors, but we never thought that they would actually say this publicly.

Taxing unrealized gains, meaning you're taking money from people who have not yet earned the gain to tax, is one of the wildest things that would ever happen to our economy, both on an institutional macro level as well as a small business or in a venture environment. So practically what this looks like is when you own stock or you own an asset, you're

you're taxed on the gain of that asset when you realize the gain. Meaning, let's say I bought stock today in any company. I bought it in Public Square. Let's say I bought stock in my own company today in Public Square. And let's say that that stock was worth $100 when I bought it.

Traditionally, the way this works in our economy is that when that stock goes up to $200, if I didn't sell anything, I don't have any money out. I'm not in the money. I didn't have any gains. They're unrealized. They're not real. It's fake. Nothing actually changed about my economic situation other than on paper, the value of my asset has theoretically appreciated.

But the way our tax system works is that when I sell that asset, I'm taxed on essentially the delta between what I bought it for and where I sold it. The gain is taxed. So if I bought stock in any company of my own at $100 and it appreciated to $200, then I pay taxes on those gains when I sell.

The problem with taxing unrealized gains is that if my stock or my value of my assets, if my house, if my business appreciates in value and I get taxed on the appreciation of the value, even if I haven't sold any of the assets to be able to pay for the taxes, how exactly am I going to pay taxes? I haven't actually earned any additional income that I could utilize to pay my taxes.

This is the most disincentivizing structure to propose for taxes because it is the most blatant form of harming growth. So let's say I'm a company now. I'm a small business and I'm trying to appreciate my business and value. And let's say my business is currently worth $10 million and I hope it'll be worth $100 million. And a lot of my ownership and my entire life is tied up in the asset of my business. When I have a new valuation of 409A and I have

a new funding round that suggests that I am now worth more theoretically on paper because the value of my business went up even if my business is private.

The Biden administration, Kamala's administration, is proposing taxing me on the increase of that value, even though I don't actually have any additional capital to be able to pay off those taxes. Michael, what would that mean for the creators and the entrepreneurs that you deal with on a daily basis? You'd kill the entire world of entrepreneurship. There'd be no reason to do it anymore because I'd be punished as I grow, even if I haven't been able to take the fruits of my labor.

And I'm four years into our startup environment. And thank God we've had a lot of success. And I'm so grateful for it. But I'm not rich. I haven't pulled any cash out. I've never sold a penny of our own stock.

And so if you take an entrepreneurial journey like me, you might look at me and say, well, you're the CEO of a publicly traded company in the New York Stock Exchange. I bet you're sitting fat and pretty. It's not true. I have not taken a single penny off the table out of our company in stock. But our stock has sure appreciated a lot in value in the last four years. So if I'm an entrepreneur trying to grow my business and I get penalized as the growth of my business projects forward, even though I haven't taken any winnings, what incentive is there for me to even keep building anymore? I won't literally be able to.

So for the millions of entrepreneurs in our country, of 30 million small businesses and sole proprietorships in the United States, Charlie, for those 30 million folks that are out there that are trying to do their best to grow their businesses and are not taking winnings along the way, they're waiting for a much more grander payday years down the road. All of a sudden, that entire system becomes essentially imploded overnight with a proposal of a tax on unrealized gains. It's absolutely absurd on its face.

Michael, I'm going to clip this and send it out. It was great, great analysis. And this is not political, everybody, but it's just very simple. Kamala Harris will destroy the American entrepreneur. That is in her proposal.

and you have no public square, these great companies that we like, Patriot Mobile, it would be destroyed. And that is the agenda of the Marxist Kamala Harris. Thank you so much, Michael C., for great work. Check out publicsquare.com. That is publicsquare.com. Everyone, check it out and support it. Michael, we're behind you 100%. Thank you. Good to see you, Charlie. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Thanks so much for listening, and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.