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Hey everybody, it's the end of the Charlie Kirk Show. We have Senator J.D. Vance, who is my pick and some people in the audience here's pick for VP. I see that applause. He is terrific and really sharp. He joins the program and he talks about the news of the day and a lot more and debate prep. Email us, freedom at charliekirk.com. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.
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Joining us now is Senator J.D. Vance from the great state of Ohio. Also the winner of the Turning Point Action Straw Poll from the People's Convention. Senator, I haven't heard your comments on that. You're the winner of our straw poll. Do you have any reaction to that?
Well, obviously it was fun to be there and was excited to get the endorsement of the crowd. But obviously it's one guy's decision and that's Donald Trump's. But I certainly was honored and thrilled that so many people were supportive. I don't know, man, you get out there and you do this and what you try to do is make a difference, right? And when people respond well to it, it's always gratifying. I think most importantly, as you know, is a lot of people there. I mean, my understanding, Charlie, is about two-thirds of the people there are
our Michigan residents who are doing a lot of door knocking, a lot of volunteer get out the vote stuff. And that's really what we need, man. The Democrats have been creaming us on this stuff for so long. And we have, I think, an RNC leadership that is now finally aligned with doing the things that need to happen. But having organizations like yours out there is really, really powerful. I mean, you know, Michigan could be the determining factor for whether Donald Trump is reelected president.
And Michigan could be decided by a couple thousand votes. And there's a little bit too much of a sort of slapping ourselves on the back and the polls look really good and they do look really good. But things could tighten. We could be in a different position come November and we have to work for every single vote. So it's good to see people fired up to do that in Michigan. And I think it says something, J.D., that Michiganders voted for an Ohioan as their leader.
Lee, I think that really is something, uh, you know, there, there, not a lot of distinctions matter in America, but the Ohio Michigan distinction matters. You know, I'm not all this racial stuff's a bunch of nonsense. Black, white distinction means nothing to me. The Ohio Michigan distinction, uh, always makes me chuckle looking ahead here, JD. Um, you have great wisdom to share here about, uh, the Donald Trump Biden debate. It is coming up on June 27th, uh, this Thursday, actually, um,
So walk us through this. Trump predicts that there's a 10% chance CNN will be fair to him at the presidential debate. What is your reaction about this, or at least your thoughts about this upcoming debate? Look, I think it's probably pretty accurate, right? I mean, we can expect that there's going to be some liberal bias. The question to me is how much, and maybe it is right that they knock it out of the
and they give us a fair debate. But I think we have to be really careful here, Charlie. I'm actually a little bit worried at how much people are overstating Donald Trump's chances of winning
sort of winning this thing. I mean, look, Trump is a better debater. Sure. He certainly has better ideas. He's able to communicate them much more effectively. But we also have to realize the deck is fundamentally stacked against Trump in a very profound way for this debate. Right. So you asked me, like, what's one of the most fundamental aspects of being president? Charlie is leading people. Right. You have to actually get people sort of fired up and inspired and ready to follow you.
The debate has no audience, right? There's no interaction. And we know that Trump is much better at interacting with people than Biden. So that's a huge advantage to Biden that there's no audience. Okay, second thing, we know Trump has much more energy than Joe Biden. But yet, as I understand it, the Biden folks are working to try to make sure that they can be seated for the 90 minutes of the debate. So it takes away one of Trump's huge advantages that he's more
has more energy. He's a more imposing figure physically, and they're trying to neutralize that advantage. Then you talk about the moderators, I think all of whom we would admit, even I think they would admit that they are biased, at least politically, towards Joe Biden. Hopefully that bias doesn't come out during the debate.
And then finally, Charlie, we have no idea what kind of medication they're going to give to Joe Biden. They can't drug test the guy before the debate. And so they may very well be able to get the 90 best minutes that Joe Biden has. And the media will say, oh, Republicans said he was going to be terrible. And all of a sudden he was really good. You layer that on top of the biased format against Trump. And I just think Republicans were taking a victory lap on this. Yes, we've got the better candidate.
And we've got the way better guy, but we need to be careful here about setting expectations in a way that no one can beat them. - Yeah, and I agree. I have a theory also that I wanna run against Joe Biden. I'd rather run against Joe Biden than Gretchen Whitmer. That's my personal opinion. And so I hope Trump, if he wins, it's not too much of a clobbering. And so I'm torn on it.
I think there's something to be said, though, about Trump being the populist nationalist that he is going into this, these adversarial environments, showing Trump's combative spirit. And yeah, it's a 95 percent chance that they're going to be hostile. Let's go fight. And I think that's the reason why so many people like him and appreciate him.
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Call 972-PATRIOT. That is 972-PATRIOT. Go to patriotmobile.com slash charlie and join me and make the switch today. That is patriotmobile.com slash charlie, patriotmobile.com slash charlie. You've dealt with CNN quite a lot, Senator. You've spent a lot of time going on CNN. If you were to give Donald Trump any debate prep or advice, I know that's a big ask.
what would that be? I could share you what I would do after you respond, but what advice, if any, would you give? He is the best debater alive. I agree. What would you say as far from a perspective of how he approaches it or handles it? Yeah, Charlie. So look, it's always dangerous to give Trump advice because he came from the outside and won his first race, which was to run for president. So he obviously knows what he's doing. I mean, look, I think
Charlie, I think you probably agree with this. When you get to know Trump, the thing that is kind of shocking compared to the media narrative of Trump is just how like fundamentally decent and nice of a human being he is. There's like a heart, right? He's sort of smart. He knows public policy. Like there's a heart there that I think that the Trump campaign has to really work hard to make sure that pierces through. I agree.
at the beginning, like, you know, like he loves kids, right? He loves families. He sort of, he just like likes people. And I think if we can get that to sort of shine through, then that's going to help him more than any like particular policy debating point. We just have to make sure that shines through. And I think talking about the people he's met on the campaign trail, I mean, you may remember this, Charlie, but when we had this terrible train accident in East Palestine, Ohio, and, you know, Trump shows up completely
out of the blue, has bottled water, but just interacting with people on the ground, it sort of hit me that this is a part of Trump that no one really ever sees, and the media hides for obvious reasons. I reached out to some of the Trump campaign people afterwards, and I said, guys, you know what you're doing? Take this advice for what it's worth, but you've got to...
showcase the president in this kind of environment more often. And obviously, that's one of the things I don't like about the fact that there's no audience there is you don't get that interplay. But I do think that Trump can show his heart in the debate, even despite that. And if he does, it'll be very effective. It'll resonate a lot. I'm so glad you brought up East Palestine. I want to isolate that. I have a theory, J.D., that that was the turning point of his
primary race and really was a launching point. It was one of the most publicized visits that he's done. You were the one that was like, hey, the river is not what they say it is. And you know, you did a great job. And I think your popularity soared after that. Sherrod Brown was nowhere to be found. But you were all over that. And then Donald Trump visiting and then going to the local fast food restaurant. J.D., can you speak about that moment in more detail? Because that was really a launching off point. The East Palestine Trump
is the Trump I want to see at the debate, not the Trump that interrupted Biden in the first debate in 20. And I think he's internalized that. I think that, remember, he had COVID during that. So you got to, it's hard to even remember that. And also incumbent presidents tend to not do well in their first debate. Remember Obama did poorly against Mitt Romney back in 2012. If you remember that, it was like, wow, Mitt Romney won the debate. It's out of control. Senator Vance, your thoughts.
Yeah, I do remember that, actually. That's a very good point. I mean, that was Mitt Romney's sort of very good debate against Obama. You know, to this point in East Palestine, so just to recap very briefly, I mean, he shows up. We go and sit down with the mayor, with some of the local firefighters, with the local congressmen. And again, he's just asking, like, how are things going? What can I do? How can I help?
And again, there is this connection that I think Trump feels to just normal Americans, right? From all walks of life, rich, poor, working class, not, they work in a factory, they work. Like if you're a normal person, right? Trump just sort of gravitates towards you. And I think this is like, you know, one of his sort of very secretive superpowers in politics is that people pick up on
others who like them or others who don't like them. And I think a lot of Republicans, let's be honest here, they don't like their own voters, right? There's this weird thing where like, eh, I don't know that I like, maybe they think things or behave a certain way that we don't totally agree with. And Democrats have a ton of people who, you know, they frankly maybe should be ashamed of, but they just don't, they're not, right? They never have this sense of,
oh, well, you know, yeah, a lot of illegal aliens maybe are more pro-Democrats than Republicans. You never hear them act ashamed about this. And yet American citizens who really love Donald Trump, a lot of Republicans don't act like they actually care about their own voters. And that's just not...
The Trump you saw in East Palestine is so genuine because that emotional connection was very real. And he goes to McDonald's and he's like joking around with the staff there. He's like, hey, I probably know this menu better than you do. And honestly, he might know the menu better than they do because the guy really likes McDonald's. He has this whole sort of theory about how
Food safety there is better because they're sort of so good at producing it. He just is who he is. And yeah, he's a successful guy and he's a billionaire and all that. But you wouldn't know it seeing him interact with people because he's just good at it.
And that's the part of Trump that I think the campaign has to showcase. - I agree, the East Palestine Trump we have to showcase. I think they've been doing a good job of that. I think that Susie and James Blair and the team there, they've been doing a really good job of that, just generally and broadly.
Yeah. So I want to now talk about the Rust Belt here, Senator, which ties in what we're talking about Trump. If Donald Trump is able to win one of the blue wall states, the industrial belt, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and he's able to flip Georgia, Arizona, which we're working our tail off in Arizona, I'll tell you what. But Arizona, Georgia are by far structurally easier than the blue wall. We have more registered Republicans than Democrats. We
are course correcting. It's just Georgia, Arizona are primed to do better. The blue wall is the open question. And so as someone who has been popularly elected and you are very popular in Ohio,
what is the game plan for us to do better in Western Pennsylvania, do better in Southern Michigan? You know, I spoke to a reporter who you would know, and she was like, oh, well, I was talking about how I think you should be the vice president. And she said, well, I mean, doesn't Trump have the Rust Belt on lock? I said, well,
Well, not so much. I said, seemingly, he's very popular. But if we don't win one of those states, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, then we're going to be on the outside looking in. So take us through in some detail, Senator, from a policy perspective, and then from a political perspective, what you've learned being a senator in the last couple of years, and what Donald Trump can present to this part of the world to be successful.
Yeah, you know, Charlie, you're right. If you look at the polling, we're doing much better in the Sunbelt than we are in the industrial Midwest. And those industrial Midwest states, I mean, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan have a ton of electoral votes and it's very important. So I agree with the premise here. Look, I think we have to recognize that these are like different states fundamentally. And obviously my Ohio is sort of a
part of those. I don't think Ohio is at any risk of going blue in 2024. But number one is, these are areas that were the absolute heart of the American economy 40 or 50 years ago. And then this bipartisan consensus came along and said, well, hey, let's ship our entire industrial base off to China, off to East Asia, off to Mexico. These workers in places like Wisconsin and Michigan suffered the most.
And there's this real sense like a loss of pride, a loss of purpose, like knowing that you grew up in a community that used to make things. And now it's like most of the stores downtown have closed down. And there's a lot of fentanyl coming in across the southern border. And that's killing your neighbors and killing your neighbors' kids. Just this sense of loss.
that you built a great community and stupid leadership took it away from you. I think Trump is better able to tap into that than anybody, but we've actually got to go and do it and get the message out there, right? Sort of, you've got to deliver that message. You've got to go and sell that argument. You've got to go out there and put boots on the ground and knock on doors and make sure people get to the polls. But I think that's the most important thing is that Trump make America great again, and
We have to stop losing to China. We have to stop losing to Mexico. That message is extraordinarily powerful in the industrial Midwest. It works everywhere, but it's especially powerful in the industrial Midwest. Second thing, Charlie, is if you look at, you know, the border thing is a huge problem nationwide. Every state is a border state. But if you look at the problems with the border in Arizona and Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, they're different. Right.
Right. So here's how the border issue manifests itself. Here's how Joe Biden's open border looks to the people of the industrial Midwest. Number one, a lot of the neighbors are dying of drug overdoses. OK, stop the drug cartel chipping this poison in my community. Number two, Charlie, hospital wait times are really high in rural hospitals that are already really overstressed. But then you add thousands of illegal immigrants into some of these states, hundreds of thousands.
into the country every single month. And that puts huge stress on local services, especially in rural areas where they're already under a huge amount of stress. So I hear a lot from grandmas who are raising grandkids and they're like, you know, my kid got a broken arm on the playground. I
I took them to the emergency room, and we had to wait four hours because there were a bunch of illegal aliens there in front of us in line. So it's a different issue. It's a problem, but the way that it looks, and I think the way we talk about the border has to be a little bit different in the industrial Midwest. I think that's right, and it becomes very personal. Also, there's really no-nonsense spin.
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Do you sense that that has really deteriorated for Joe Biden and that in that region of the world, white working class voters no longer think fondly of Joe Biden, where previously there might have been some good vibes for Joe? Yeah, well, I think he had his chance, Charlie. And he did run in a lot of ways. He ran on Trump's themes in 2020. So he was sort of explicitly a fan.
That's right. Trump's 2016 arguments and applying them in 2020. So it's not surprising he was able to attract some of those voters. But look, what's he actually done with it, Charlie? The main thing that Joe Biden has done when it comes to manufacturing policy in this country is he's destroyed American energy. He's radically reduced the amount of energy that we could produce relative to what we need. And the second thing he's done, Charlie, is he's done he's put
hundreds of billions of dollars into green energy boondoggles that benefit Chinese manufacturers and the Chinese middle class, but don't do a whole lot for the American middle class. So why are we building the Chinese green economy off the backs of auto workers in Michigan and Pennsylvania and Ohio? It doesn't make any sense. And I think a lot of people are very pissed off about it. They recognize...
that most electric vehicles, most components for electric vehicles are made in China. They recognize that we send hundreds of billions of dollars to companies that are manufacturing in China. That doesn't benefit the auto workers of Michigan. It actually harms them because it means that there are going to be less jobs making traditional gas-powered American cars. So I think that the Biden record has destroyed whatever credibility he has with those voters. We just have to hammer that message.
So there's new polling that shows, Senator, and I want to get your thoughts on this, that Donald Trump is doing better with black voters, doing better with Hispanics, doing better with younger voters, which we've been working on very hard. But the Wall Street Journal says boomers for Biden, that baby boomers are increasingly going towards Joe Biden. Now, to be clear, it's still a battleground demographic. However, it is eroding a structural advantage that Donald Trump would have enjoyed in previous elections. This is not a group like a
similar to any other, they vote in very high numbers. They have incredibly high turnout. And in fact, Joe Biden is doing five points better with baby boomers than in 2020 with Donald Trump. I don't think that is going to remain. I actually think that boomers are going to come home and are going to reject Joe Biden. But help me make sense of this, Senator.
Why is it that younger voters, ages 23, 24 years old, are increasingly going right wing and are saying that we want the rebel Donald Trump, but 70-year-old voters want Joe Biden? What's that all about?
Yeah, it's really interesting, Charlie. I'm not sure I fully understand it. I'm also not sure I fully buy the polling, right? So if you look at this stuff, the most difficult group of people to poll are MAGA voters in the industrial Midwest. They don't pick up the phone when a pollster calls. Obviously, there's a lot of baby boomers in that demographic.
And, you know, I do wonder how much of that is a polling artifact where the pollsters just aren't good at reaching those voters. And so they have distorted view. I think the other thing that's going on, though, Charlie, is look, Biden has been really effective at messaging on this idea that Republicans want to steal away your Social Security and your Medicare.
And unfortunately, you know, you do have some Republicans who, frankly, make that message easier. The problem is Trump actually makes that message harder. And I think we can go to a lot of these voters and say, look, you know what's going to destroy Social Security? Allowing fraudulent illegal immigrant claimants on your Social Security. You know what's going to destroy Social Security?
20 million people here that we have to support on the public dole who shouldn't be in this country to begin with. So my guess is Biden has been a little bit effective at scaring people, and we can correct that. But it's also the polling doesn't quite make sense for that demographic because a lot of them don't like to answer phone calls from strange pollsters. I think there's a lot of truth to that. And younger voters, right?
Your campaign, J.D., was about a return to a normal American way of life, one where you own property, have children, get married. Younger voters increasingly are not able to do those three things. What can we as a Republican Party do from a policy perspective to try and make it easier so that younger voters can own homes,
that they can get married and have children. I'm not suggesting that we need to outlaw this, but I do think this is a concern of mine. One fourth of all home purchases in the first quarter of this year were done by investors. I don't think that is good for the country. I don't think that buy it, flip it, and rent it back to a 26-year-old is the best version of free market capitalism. Senator Vance, what are your thoughts?
Oh, Charlie, I look, I totally agree with that. I mean, look, why, why do we allow any foreign investors to put money in the institutional investment funds and the property, whether it's our farms or our single family homes, I would say we should just outright ban this stuff. You can't let,
foreign investors purchase up a piece of America when a lot of young Americans can't do that thing. I mean, look, I think a lot of when I talk to older Americans, a lot of them are very concerned about how radical the politics are of the younger generation. And it's not radical in sort of the traditional ways. In some ways, they're becoming more right wing. In other ways, of course, they're becoming more left wing.
But I think it's very much a symptom of the fact that our public policy has made it harder for young people to build families and form a life and actually have some basic stability. I mean, 40, 50 years ago, most people could actually support a family of four or five people on a single middle class income, right? That promotes family stability. That promotes family formation. And
Not, unfortunately, the situation that we have today. What about housing costs? I mean, I hear all the time from young constituents of mine. I have one in particular who's a realtor. And her dream is that she likes to get young families into their first home, into their starter home.
And she talks all the time about how you have a young couple. Maybe the wife is pregnant. Maybe they're thinking about having a baby. They're just about to get married. Like whatever station they're in, a young couple looking to buy a house and they put in an offer and it's 2% above asking. And then somebody comes in very often, a foreign backed institutional investor and bids 10 or 15% above asking. So that's,
we have a young generation that's becoming more open to left-wing economics because I think that they're not actually benefiting from what's going on in the incredible bounty that we have in our country. And I think we just have to say like, look, housing affordability, not letting foreign investors buy up our farmland and our single family homes, getting real about family policy. I mean, you know, in other countries, young people who get married and have kids, they just pay way less in taxes.
than they would have otherwise paid, right? Because we want to promote family formation. Maybe we should be talking about doing that stuff in the United States of America, a true pro-family policy combined with lower housing costs. And of course, combined with getting illegal aliens out of our country that are poisoning our streets. I think that goes a long way to making family formation more possible. And I think if young people think there's a pathway for that, they're going to be more willing to vote for the party that's promoting that pathway and has a real plan.
I mean, I completely agree. Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here. Big tech, big government and the progressives have done everything they can to silence truth and sanity. But there's a secret weapon that they can't touch.
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Think about how demoralizing it must be. You're trying to buy a home. You're almost there. And some Chinese investor comes in and scoops it up. And I think that is – that must be outlawed. There should be no place for that in American society. Yeah. And, Charlie, can we just talk about something else too? I mean something that occurred to me while I heard you make that observation, which I agree with. Okay.
Okay, so Republicans don't think that Joe Biden's student loan forgiveness plan is a good idea. I'm certainly among them. I think it's ridiculous to have plumbers and electricians pay for the student loans of people they don't even know. Okay, I think it's fundamentally unfair. Well, let's ask ourselves. There are a lot of Americans who were sold the bill of goods on college. They were told that it was the only pathway to a middle class life. Some of them graduated, some of them didn't. They have
tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt. Now, again, I don't think that the average American citizen should pay for it, but maybe the university should. Maybe we should expect the colleges to pick up some of the bill that they put on the backs of young Americans. I've talked, Charlie, about taxing endowments and having some of that money go to student debt relief or making the student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy so that these kids don't have their entire life ruined.
And the colleges have to pick up the tab. I think it's basic fairness here that we ought to ask the colleges to foot more of the bill, not the ordinary American citizen. Seize the endowments. I think that is a very good idea. We talk about that in my book, actually, Right-Wing Revolution. Senator, I know you have to go in just a second here. The final question I want your comment on is that polling shows this election is unlike any other where
where when you and I were growing up in the conservative movement, it was always the case that if there was higher turnout, it would benefit Democrats, that lower propensity voters would be in the Democrat favor. That was the case in 2004, 2008, 2012. 2016, it was 50-50. In 2020, we weren't actually sure, but it was slightly favor Biden in that regard. 2024 and
Democrats are even joking now. Well, I hope turnout's not too high. Hope turnout's not too high. This is the low propensity election. I'm afraid we do not have the apparatus to actually be able to capitalize on the low propensity voter advantage that we might actually be able to enjoy this cycle. Your thoughts on how this happened and how we can maximize the harvest of the low propensity opportunity?
Charlie, this is such a smart and important point. And just an observation on what happened here. I think as the Republican Party became a more working class party, we frankly have become a more normal party, right? Normal people, people who aren't weirdos, obsessed about politics. The problem is weirdos who are obsessed about politics vote every single election. And normal people, sometimes they just tune it out. We've got to get the normal people to the polls, the people who don't think about who they're going to vote for until...
the week or two before the election, that's really, really important and compelling and powerful. And the question of how we do that, Charlie, I mean, obviously what you guys, what Turning Points Action and others is doing is really important. I do think we have leadership at the RNC that is very focused on this issue, but we saw this in our own polling in my race in 2002. We sort of said, look, if we get the Trump
2020 electorate in the state of Ohio, we don't have to worry about the election at all. If we get the sort of, you know, off cycle midterm year where not as many people vote, then we might be in trouble. And we were able to sort of land somewhere in the middle and we won comfortably. Which is amazing because not every state, sorry to interrupt, not every state was able to get in the middle. Like that's amazing that you guys were able to do it. That's right.
Ohio did very well. North Carolina was two states where we did really well as Republicans. But this is really important, Charlie. And we've got to get those marginal voters out there. And I say, here's the basic apparatus that Dems have is they track every single ballot. They know whether people are likely to vote for them or not. And for the people who are likely to vote for them, they really aggressively go and try to get those people to the polls here. We have to do that.
We have to make sure we're doing the exact same thing. And again, the infrastructure is better now than it was, but there's still a lot of work to do. Senator, I know you have to go. Thank you for your great leadership. God bless you. Talk to you soon. Thanks, man. Take care. Thanks so much for listening. Everybody email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.
