Charlie and Vivek's "Prove Me Wrong" Team-Up at UPitt
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Hey, everybody. My Conversations at University of Pittsburgh with Vivek Ramaswamy during the campaign. You're going to love it. As always, you can email us, freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast. Open up your podcast application and type in Charlie Kirk Show and become a member today. Members.charliekirk.com. Members.charliekirk.com. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.

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Hi, my name is Erin. I'm a really big fan and I'm really excited to see both of you. I'm a little stressed because I feel like I could ask about, you know, gun violence. I could ask about anti-Semitism on campus. But I feel like with an opportunity like this, I would really appreciate some personal advice. I'm here at the University of Pittsburgh as a social work major and I'm really passionate about it. However, I have found...

That I'm leaning a little bit more Republican and I feel like I come at a standstill with that. And I really just want to get your advice moving forward for myself. There's some obvious things I think you can think that would conflict, obviously. I guess that's kind of my question. What advice do you have for me as a Republican aspiring social worker?

What would conflict? I don't know how to say it properly. I think I can help. The social work industry is very much about a perspective generally of that people in poverty are there permanently and not trying to break people out of poverty into the middle class or higher levels. Right. And that's why the Democrat Party and social work are very intertwined. Right, exactly. They view poverty not as a series of choices, but as a... As a...

station in life that is immovable largely. Is that fair to say? That is fair to say. That's why my personal focus is on the children in underprivileged communities, because I personally feel like they don't choose to be put in that position. But I'm having a little bit of a difficult time empathizing with the older generation of underprivileged and not in every community, but

I don't know how to not sound bad. I know you are great at not sounding bad when you say stuff, but I don't want to say something that will get me in trouble. Here's one way to look at it, and, Charlotte, that was helpful, actually. The Great Society from Lyndon Johnson.

It was a series of policies that were designed to help underprivileged communities. Right. They hurt the very people they were supposed to help. How? Well, the reality is it created dependence on government. So you have a lot of single mothers, for example, that are paid more money not to have a man in the house.

than to have a man in the house because of the way the math of these aid programs work. What do you mean? Well, often the way the math of the aid is calculated is if you have an earning husband in the household, that actually causes you to disqualify for forms of federal aid that were designed to help you. But actually, the best way to get kids in your own household ahead is in a two-parent household because if you're raised in a two-parent household, you're less likely to end up in jail, less likely to end up in poverty, more likely to graduate from high school.

So one of the ways that if you're asking for advice, I would say for the people around you, even who might lean left, you can recognize their intentions come from a good place. Absolutely. But the policies of their leaders have actually betrayed the very people they were supposed to help.

And you can let them know because I believe this is genuinely true, not just the Republican Party but our conservative movement. We care about lifting people up from poverty. We just care about actually doing it rather than talking about it. That's what I would say. The other thing I'll say is that we as conservatives believe that if you're in poverty –

It's largely because of values, not because of lack of stuff. Like what values? Not saving money, spending all of your money in your paycheck as you get it. For example, abandoning your spouse after impregnating them, not not spending all of your money on alcohol and drugs and instead opening a 401k. So values are the number one predictor of entering the middle class. And there's a great book called Life at the Bottom. You should read it.

by Theodore Dalrymple, who's a social worker in the United Kingdom. It's called Life at the Bottom, where he got into social work because he wanted to help people. And he realized it was not a lack of stuff. It wasn't lack of housing, lack of food stamps. It was that their value system was one that kept them poor. So yeah, really quick, then I'm going to get to the next one. I'm just struggling because in all of my social work classes right now, they're talking about all of those things. They're wrong.

So what do I do? I'm trying to learn about what I want to do. I think you need to stay in social work because you're called to do it. But there's an amazing amount of literature from Thomas Sowell to Shelby Steele to Theodore Dalrymple that get down to actual root causes of poverty, which is not lack of stuff, but is worldview.

And I think that'd be super helpful. Thank you so much. God bless you. Trump 2020. Yes. That you want to have. All right. Disagreements. Most welcome. Yes. Okay. Hi. Hi. Hi. My name's Oliver. I've been thinking about like what I was going to ask. I couldn't think of like a really good question.

I don't agree with kind of most of everything that I do stand for, but I've only really seen you on TikTok. So I don't actually know most of like what your deal is. So I'll give you give you my 10 truths. It's the backbone of a book I've written. It's the backbone of my presidential campaign. I can tell you 10 things that I believe are true. And you tell me where you disagree. God is real. There are two genders, by which I mean there are two sexes.

The climate change agenda is a hoax because fossil fuels are a requirement for human prosperity. Reverse racism is racism. An open border is not a border. Parents should determine the education of their children. The nuclear family is not a bad word. It is the greatest form of governance known to mankind. Capitalism is the best system we have to lift us up from poverty.

There's three branches of government in the United States, not four. The people we elect to run the government should run the government, not unelected bureaucrats. And the U.S. Constitution is the single greatest guarantor of freedom in human history. That's what I believe. OK. Now tell me where you disagree. A lot of buzzwords. OK. Tell me where you disagree. I mean, you know, the God thing.

that's up to whatever is, you know, interpretation of like what you believe in, what you believe is right in life. I don't think that's like something you should really debate. Also, wasn't that like a thing where you like separate church and state from the government?

Why is like a candidate? Are you pushing that as like real? It doesn't like. So I'm telling you what I believe is true. The beauty of this country is that you're free to exercise your religion, whatever that is, including even those who are atheists are free to be atheist in the country. But it is a hard historical fact.

That our founding fathers believed that we are one nation under God, that there is one true God, and he puts us here for a purpose. And I think part of what we've lost in our country is a belief in a higher power. Part of the reason I think that our generation, mine too, we're so lost is that we have a hold the size of God in our heart. And when God doesn't fill it, something else does instead.

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So if you ask, let me ask you a question.

If more people in this country believed in God and believed that God was looking out for them, do you think we would be more unified or do you think we'd be more divided? I don't think it's a question. I think we'd be more unified as a country. I don't think it's a question of God. I think it's just a question of like morality. I think, you know, the whole point of religion is to instill like good morals and like, you know, how to live your life. And I think, you know, we can spend here all day like debating whether God is real, heaven is real. But like, you know, at the end of the day, you're going to live your day. You're going to live your life every day doing good.

the same mundane things you're probably not going to see him like a quote-unquote miracle as well hold on we saw one in butler pennsylvania didn't we you don't think that there was something supernatural lucky i think so that's interesting we just have a different worldview when i see a bullet three centimeters from going into someone's brain on national tv that would have maybe sparked a civil war i think that maybe god's behind that you think it's luck that's okay yeah yeah

I'm not laughing at you. I just know. No, I just, you know, nervous laughs, nervous laughs, nervous laughs. I'll say one thing because you asked about politics. Let me just be clear about this. In this country, you are free to live here and not believe in God without the government coming after you. But the irony of what's happening is the government's actually coming after you for practicing your religion or believing in God. Look under the covid-19 pandemic. They specifically went after churches even when they didn't go after liquor stores at the exact same time.

I personally believe that, you know what, you're free to, as I said earlier, you're free to marry who you want if you want. But that doesn't mean that you should be forced to officiate somebody's wedding if your religion says you don't believe in that either. So I'm in favor of religious liberty in this country. So what does that do with politics? You should be free to worship.

Today in this country, sadly, especially if you're a Christian, I say this as somebody who's Hindu. If you're a Christian in this country, you are in a disfavored condition today. And I think the reality is we need a government that gets out of the way of stopping people from practicing their religion. Thank you, my man. I appreciate it. All right. Thank you. I've never heard of this or either one of you before I saw this whole group thing.

So I wanted to ask the two of you how you feel about, do you think that women should take on traditional gender roles in society or in their homes? Yeah, I mean, generally, yes, but you're free to choose as you wish. But I think that most women are sold a lie to pursue a career and not form a family. And I think that comes at great cost. And I think we should elevate the

the nuclear family first and foremost. If you want to pursue a career, you have the agency to do that. You have the liberty to do that. But almost every young lady in this audience would agree that there is a push for young ladies to delay family formation at the expense sometimes of having a career. There's nothing wrong with having a career. At Turning Point USA, we have more women than men that work for us. Our events department, which is the best events in the country, right, Vivek?

Amen. It's all women. A career is a great thing, but I can tell you as a father of two young babies and Vivek of two young kids, my career is nothing compared to the depth and the meaning and the purpose that I derive from being a father to two young kids. Okay.

Julie, I'll tell you also, I have a pretty unique vantage point on this. So I'm married to Apoorva. She is one of the top throat surgeons in the country. Oh, wow. She fixes swallowing disorders. She kills it at Ohio State University. And she is IO. You know, I can't help it.

But she is trying to win. No, I know. But we believe in honesty and authenticity. Congrats. I love strong women. But and the reality is I don't see and she doesn't see a tradeoff between her ability to be an excellent mother to our two sons, which she is.

I think I'm speaking for her when I say that she believes she is stronger at what she does in saving lives because it gives her more meaning in being a mother as well. I say this as somebody who ran for U.S. president last year. If I felt like that would compromise my role as a father, I wouldn't do it or any of the other companies I've built. But one of the things I've found is it makes me stronger as a father and a poor person stronger as a mother because we actually care for those kids.

And so does that mean we should somehow move to a society where people are having fewer children and delaying family formation? No, that's not being a strong woman. I think being a strong woman and a strong man alike is acknowledging we can pursue our own dreams but recognize that it all starts with a strong household, and we're proud of that.

Okay. I agree that it's good to have strong households. It's good to have strong nuclear families. You want to have close connections. It promotes emotional sustainability. But I think I disagree where young women, I do agree with you that young women are being pushed to pursue their career rather than maybe starting a family young. But the population is always growing. And I think... Is it?

Yes. Well, actually, our birth rate is collapsing. We're below replacement levels in the West. I mean, but the population of the world is just always going up and up and up. That's not actually true. It's driven by other continents, driven by places like Africa. But in the United States of America right now, what you call the replacement rate, so the number of births net of deaths,

We're at 1.6, 1.68. We're below replacement rate. Equivalence is two. Okay, so two means you have as many births as you have for deaths. We're well below that rate. So our population is actually declining in this country. And if you want to ask me, people talk about the threat of climate change to the future of humanity in the West.

I think the depopulation of the West is a far greater threat to our future than the climate ever will be because we're not having enough people to sustain elderly growing populations. And that's a major problem. So one of the greatest things I think we could do for our country over the next hundred years is actually four more families and bring more children into this world. It's probably the best thing that somebody could do for their country outside of politics.

I respectfully disagree. I think that our infrastructure, there's so many people in cities that our infrastructure is starting to lack where we can actually support people anymore. And I think the government is starting to be able to not support people as well because there's just so many people. And I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that the population is declining. So what do you think happens? We'll finish with a quick question, let you answer. So you say infrastructure is declining. We're not able to support our population.

What do you think happens 20 years from now where we have a bunch of people in their 80s, far more than we've ever had, with far fewer working age people in their 20s, 30s or 40s? Do you think that problem of the infrastructure to support our country is going to be worse or better against that backdrop? You know, Japan is suffering from that same issue. And I think that hopefully that the scientific innovation of supporting elderly people will get better. And...

But maybe you're right that the infrastructure problem won't be as bad as having other people, as having elderly people. And that's what we favor. Thank you for being respectful. Thank you very much. Have a great day. You too. Thank you. Yes, disagreements. I want to just say if you disagree, feel free to work your way to the front of the line. That's why we're here. We love the agreements, but that's why Vivek and I do rallies. That's not why we're here today. Okay? Yes, ma'am.

Hello, nice to meet you. My name's Kaylee. I have a question about why you care so much about abortion as a man. I can see why women care a lot about abortion, but as men, it doesn't really impact you unless your wife chose to have an abortion. But women, like outside of your wife or like your sister or immediate family choosing to have an abortion doesn't really affect you much. So I'm just curious to like,

Why that's such a big concern and why things like the homicide rate in Baltimore City isn't like more of a big concern and why like the homicide rates around the country aren't a bigger concern. Okay, so I'll tell you why. I'm sure we can both agree we care when kids are killed. So that's why I care because kids are being killed. Okay, but.

It's not really a kid. Like, if you're getting an early... Wait, okay. Well, it's not really a kid is what you're going to say? I was... I'm going to clarify. It's not... In the first trimester, I would not consider that a child. What is it, then? What species? Is it a hippopotamus, an elephant, a giraffe? What species is it? I'm sorry.

It's just a clump of cells. No, no, no. What species is it? It's human. Right. So if it's a human, then shouldn't humans be protected? Then why aren't we protecting the people in Baltimore City who are being killed on a daily? That's a red herring. I think we should actually protect people in Baltimore. You're asking a question why I care about abortion because I care about unjust suffering. Okay. But I'm asking you as someone who is more pro-abortion or at least okay with it.

You have to tell me what is that thing in the womb. Okay, I'll agree with you, just for the sake of agreeing.

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It's much more focused on abortion rather than like the people who are already like adults or young kids getting into gangs. Why do they not? I feel like that's not as much of a concern, whereas abortions like this mainstream media thing, whereas stuff like that's not that big of a concern. So I want to address that and then we'll finish with a question I have for you on the abortion question.

So I think that we're not focused enough on law and order in our cities. I think that actually – I think I speak for Charlie and myself both when I believe that police officers need to be equipped to do their jobs rather than to be hamstrung. We have waves of rampant crime from Pittsburgh to Columbus, Ohio, where I come from, all the way to places like Baltimore that you mentioned. So I think it's wrong that in the name of protecting black communities, more black lives are lost in those inner cities when we clear the jails and defund the police.

So if you share with us the view that we need to focus more on providing resources and latitude for police officers to make sure especially our cities are safer, we're on the same page and we're in the agree camp. But you came up because we got you the front line because you're in the disagree camp. And I just want to finish by asking you a question on abortion. Let me tie the two topics together. You talked about crime and murders on the streets of Baltimore and then you talked about abortion. This is not a gotcha. I just want you to see what you think about this. Say someone's walking down the street of Baltimore, pregnant woman.

She's assaulted. It's based on a real case. She's assaulted. The unborn child dies as a result. She's distraught. Her husband is distraught. Do you think that that criminal deserves liability for that death or not? Are you talking about the case in Friends Park? I'm talking about just in this list. I made it Baltimore, so you brought up Baltimore. Pregnant woman's walking down the street. She's assaulted by a violent criminal. The unborn child dies as a result of that assault.

Do you think that that criminal should be liable for that death or not? I think he should definitely be liable for the assault. But in my opinion, it depends on how far along she was in her pregnancy. If that baby has a heartbeat, then therefore it is a living. And that baby has a heartbeat at six weeks. So let's say it's past six. Let's say it's seven weeks. That baby has a heartbeat. Then you agree with me. So we actually tend to agree a lot more than we first thought when you came up and asked that question, that that is a life.

And then a criminal who takes that life in the case of a violent assault in Baltimore deserves liability for that death. We're not going to agree on everything, but at least I think we have a similar starting point than we did about five minutes ago. So thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. I think you can tell who I am voting for. But we talked about the Butler rally earlier, and I want to ask you your thoughts, because as a as a strong Catholic.

I struggle with what the Republican Party, we as the Republican Party have been pushing the agenda that it was a miracle of God. Because as a Catholic, I do struggle to wrap my head around saying that God chose Trump over a man who was killed in front of his family. I want to ask you your thoughts on that because I struggle as a Catholic to believe that to be a miracle of God. And the struggle with God is literally what Israel means, which is to wrestle with God. Two things can be mutually true.

which is that God saved the life of Donald Trump, and we don't know why he didn't save the life of the firefighter. And look, the scriptures say time and time again that God will choose life and death. He is the author of both life and death. And I don't have a good answer for you other than maybe that there was –

something that there's a plan for Donald Trump beyond that rally in Pennsylvania. And what would have ensued if Trump would have had his brain bones out on TV would have been pretty bad. Yeah. Thank you. And thank you guys for all you do. And I think in the same way, I think God has a plan for you too, man. So keep being open with that struggle. And I think hopefully it will lead you to truth. I will say I was one of your biggest supporters in your campaign, man. I was hoping you could go all the way. I appreciate you guys for everything you do. Thank you. Hi.

So as a fellow right wing person, I actually am just wondering how you feel about Social Security going bankrupt by the early 2030s, because, Charlie, if I remember correctly, you don't believe in retirement because it's not biblical.

Yeah, for me personally, but I understand other people might want to retire. But yeah, Moses didn't retire. So, OK, so I'm half kidding. But yeah, I am a fan of Social Security. But yeah. OK, how do you feel about it going bankrupt by the early 2030s? This is a good answer for Vivek. He knows the numbers better than I do. So I don't feel great about it is the answer. And I think that even as it relates to the replacement rate of birth rates in the United States, that's only going to make that problem a lot worse.

Here's my view on how we can fix it. So I come from the business world. I got my first job out of college at an investment firm. I went in and started a number of companies after that. So I kind of approached this with a business mindset. If you go back to 2003, if everybody in Social Security, if you just invested that the same way that I invested the paltry amount of money I got in my first job out of college, which is in a diversified basket of stocks and bonds and other commodities, right?

We would have a Social Security surplus today such that the average person collecting $80,000 a month would be actually collecting several hundred thousand dollars per month today. So that's where $8,000 a month would be $80,000 a month and several hundred thousand dollars per year. So that's a mistake we made in the past. We can fix that mistake for the future. And right now, the federal laws stop us from doing it.

So the short answer is next step, get Donald Trump in office, drill frack, burn coal, grow the economy. Here's how we get out of the hole. Get the natural resources out from under our ground and sell it. Buy down the national debt. Fill the gap of the Social Security gap. Then when you have a surplus, allow people to actually invest it. We're never going to have this problem again. That's the answer to the question. Okay.

Okay. And Charlie, what do you mean you're only half kidding about, you know, you said retirement isn't biblical? Well, I think that if you're able-bodied, you shouldn't retire. I think that you should always be doing something. The idea to retire is that you're checking out a society, whether you're mentoring, you're volunteering, helping out at the church, helping out in the community.

If you're 80 years old and you're still of your faculties, I think that you being involved in your community, you have a moral obligation to do so. And I think this idea of just checking out and playing golf all day long is fine. But I actually. Well, wait, I, you know, I, I will say I probably am voting for Trump. But I mean, what does that say about him? I mean, obviously he was president, but.

I mean, yeah, he's going for a pretty hard job. Yeah, I guess so. But I mean, here's one thing. One thing I'll just say on this because of the fact. So I haven't talked a lot about this company. I started a company called Chapter. Reason I started the company is it was about the third chapter of life. You got the student chapter. You got the work chapter. We've done nothing for that third chapter of retirement. And one of the things you find is that people have worked hard their entire life when they retire. You know what happens? They get depressed. They get really depressed and their health goes down.

And so instead, I think we just got to think about these chapters of life. There's more than three chapters in your life. There's every chapter you're doing something different. And I think that that's actually going to make for a happier society, not just because people have a moral obligation to. I think they do. But when you follow your moral obligation, you're also more fulfilled yourself. But you've got a long career. You're not retiring anytime soon. So I think once you get to the same place, hopefully you'll figure out the same thing. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. You recently made a comment about how if your 10 year old daughter were to be raped and impregnated, you would force her to carry the baby to term. I'm wondering, do you still agree with that? Well, I mean, that's quite a graphic way to say it. First of all, it's a graphic topic.

Yeah, it is. First of all, first of all, shame on the woman who is trying to wish that my daughter be raped. We can agree that that is not. I don't think she ever did that, Charlie. Well, she actually said in the dialogue, I hope your daughter leaves you because your views. Yeah, yeah. That has nothing to do with whether or not she wants your daughter to be raped or not. She's saying that she thinks you are dangerous to her daughter. OK, let me be very clear, though. Do you think that an unborn baby is a human life?

Yes. Okay. So if I have two ultrasounds right now, one of a baby conceived in rape, one conceived in a consensual relationship, which one is which? Whether or not you can tell if an ultrasound is a human baby is irrelevant to the fact of whether that life has value. Most people would not define the life of an unborn fetus. First of all, plan B, you've mentioned before that you don't think that's necessarily as bad. It's not an abortifacient.

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and bring it back to life with Rough Greens, go to ruffgreens.com, promo code Kirk. ruffgreens.com, promo code Kirk. When does life begin? Well, again, it's not important. When does life begin? It begins at conception, but plan B does not...

It does not necessarily terminate a fertilized egg. Not necessarily, but if you were to shoot someone and it doesn't necessarily kill them, is it still murder, at least an attempt of murder? Well, hold on. First of all, if I were to shoot my gun up in the air and it very well might hit somebody, it is murder. Plan B is like shooting your gun up in the air. Is it?

Well, it is because it's not an abortifacient because what it does is it prevents the woman's release of progesterone, which very well might prevent the fertilization of an egg. Those are two different things where an abortion pill actually destroys a fertilized egg. Now, you keep on interrupting me, but I want to be very morally clear on this, OK, that the question was about the hypothetical rape of my daughter. Potentially, yes. To be consistent, if someone in my life were to be carrying a baby, I would not be OK with murdering the baby. Would you?

Um, I don't think it would be murder. Why? Because I think that murder is when you are taking away. I think that the value of human life is its consciousness. So I think that the point where the fetus gains value is at 20 to 26 weeks. So that's interesting. So if she was 20 years old and not raped, it's still OK. What are you talking about? Well, because you brought up the rape topic.

For what reason? To try to overly emotionalize it? No, I just felt like a lot of people wanted that addressed because it upset a lot of people. Why would it upset people to say that you shouldn't murder after an evil? Let me ask you a question. We don't believe it's murder. Right. Okay. So, but what species is the unborn baby? It is homo sapien. Got it. So at what point is it alive?

It is alive at conception. However, we don't... Excuse me. You mentioned interrupting earlier. Don't interrupt me. Well, hold on. Actually, this is my deal, not yours. But... No, no, no. Okay, so excuse me. Life is not what's valuable. If a lantern fly flew down right now, you would just swat it. It's okay. Life... Well, you said a fly flew down? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we are not placing value on... Human beings are not flies.

Why are they not flies? What's the difference between this life? Is it the fact that there's a heartbeat or is it the fact that the humans have the ability to reason humans have consciousness? That's where we place the value. So when do brainwaves start brainwaves? They start out. I don't know what six weeks six weeks. Okay, so there's no abortion Okay before six we know it's not because I don't why do you talk about brainwaves? Well, I actually I don't you do because let me tell you why if an unborn baby at conception left uninterrupted to develop what happens a seed is not a tree a

Well, no, it's already fertilized, though, and it's growing into a tree. And so an abortion is the interruption of that tree growing. So therefore, you are forcibly intervening the development of a life. If left uninterrupted and nourished, that human life becomes you and becomes me. And therefore, it becomes. So you're. No, it grows into. You're saying it grows into a life that. No, no, I didn't say a life. No, no. I said it becomes a fully developed. It's fully developed. OK, it's in the process of development. No different than my six month old right now.

does not have the ability to speak yet. Just because my six-month-old doesn't have the ability to speak yet doesn't mean it's okay to kill my six-month-old, correct? Uh, Charlie, of course I would never say that. No, I know, but what I'm saying is there's so many fault lines in the pro-abortion argument. And again, to be consistent, is it okay to pull the plug of anybody in a hospital that does not have detectable brainwaves? Um...

I think that oftentimes when somebody is not showing any detectable brainwaves, you would make a decision with your family on whether or not you pull that plug. You're not going to leave this person forever. Let me ask him the one question. Hey, Vivek, I want to ask you, before you start, do you agree with what he said about his daughter? I'm going to ask. What Charlie says about his daughter reflects the values of his family, and I think it takes great conviction for Charlie to have adopted this dance. Do you have that same conviction? Answer the question. Why don't you do it? Here's my conviction is— He won't answer the question, guys. I'm not—

I'll answer the question. So I'm pro-life as an absolutist. I also believe that the federal government should not be legislating a ban. So that's where I land on policy. I have a question for you, though, because you have been thoughtful. You're a little bit heated, but you have some thoughtful views. So I want you to answer this question directly. I asked it to a woman earlier. I'm going to ask it to you. Real case, pregnant woman walking down the street. She's assaulted violently.

The unborn child dies as a result. Is it your belief that that criminal walks free for that death? Because that's what I'm hearing. You believe that that criminal does not deserve liability for that death.

Do you agree with that or not? I would disagree. I don't think that the criminal should walk free. No. Why? Because he actually took a valid life that was worthy of human dignity and respect. Okay. First of all, I think this is a diversion. It's a true case. We're not debating policy. We're debating morality right now. No, but morality and policy are actually intertwined. Deeply linked. Because policy is a reflection of the morals you hold. We have murder laws and rape laws, arson laws, and you can't steal because we have morals, right? Okay. So you get policies because you have morals.

a moral code. Okay. First of all, Vivek, I'd like to thank you for helping Charlie out here with that. Let me just give you a piece of advice. You didn't ask me advice. I'm going to give you advice anyway, because I think we need more of this in the country. There's so much of a thoughtful thread through much of what you said. Thank you. And we just ruin it by- Yeah, you're acting like a jerk. Interspersing it with being a jerk along the way. I've watched a lot of your videos, Charlie. You have strong views. Oh, so you know how most people talk to me.

We have strong views. No, I know how you talk to people, especially like women, but we're not talking about that right now. We're talking about abortion. Keep the smart part, lose the mean part, and I think you're going to be good. Thank you very much, man. Oh, is that it? Yeah, you're done. Okay. Thanks. Sorry. All right. White dudes for Harris, everybody. Lots of gusto and no wisdom. I can't believe I have to follow that. That's crazy. What a joke. Yeah. So my question is, by increasing tariffs, do you think that's the best way to onshore jobs?

So I actually want to be really clear about Donald Trump's stance on this, because there's others in the Republican Party that go in another direction on this. Donald Trump's stance is that if a country is applying tariffs to us –

at a higher rate than we are to them, then they don't get the free lunch anymore. I agree. So that actually creates an incentive for other countries to reduce tariffs on American manufacturers. That's what people miss about the debate. And it's sad for me to kind of watch because there are some Republicans who just believe tariffs need to exist to protect American manufacturers. Yeah. That's a myth of a debate because that's not the status quo. The status quo is our so-called trading partners have higher tariffs on us than we have on them. So that's actually been the position that Trump's had. The number one area where I think it's important, though, let's just get to brass tacks.

We cannot depend on China for our own military or our own pharmaceutical supply chain or our own electronics industry. So if we're dependent on an enemy or an adversary for our way of life, it doesn't make any sense if they're also supplying our military. That's the number one thing we need to focus on. That's going to require onshoring a lot to the United States. That's the first best answer. But a second best answer, if it means we're actually entering better trading relationships with others, that's cool.

But focus on mission number one, declare economic independence from China. That's what I favor, and Donald Trump's policies will help get us there. What are your thoughts on companies from China moving to Mexico and Vietnam to get around some of the regulatory stuff that we put out there? It's gaming, and China has been a master since the 1990s of gaming our system right back against us. We've got to force them to play by the same set of rules or else they don't get the benefits of trading with us. That's the answer. I have a second question.

So you became a billionaire by basically buying drugs that companies kind of stopped the FDA trials for. Are there any major places that we could – like I could take over to become a billionaire like you are? Here's my advice. If you want to actually make it in the system of American capitalism – I love giving advice on this –

It's worked for me every time along the way. If the pack is running in one direction, you run in the other. Oh, 100%. But you've got to make sure you're actually right. So if you ever have an impulse that you want to start a business because you feel like being an entrepreneur, here's my advice. Don't. Because you actually need to understand –

a detailed reason why nobody else is actually doing it. In the farm industry, they all behave like a bunch of government bureaucrats that they're regulated by. So they behave like lemmings. And that created an opportunity to go the other direction. But I studied the industry for seven years before I had the confidence to actually do it. That's my advice to you. Well, you might have some competition in the future. All right, brother. Bring it. I like it. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless.

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