cover of episode 431: CEO Mama: Motherhood Advice I Ignored That Made Me a Happier Mom w/ Alex Wombwell-Povey (Share With All The New Mamas In Your Life!)

431: CEO Mama: Motherhood Advice I Ignored That Made Me a Happier Mom w/ Alex Wombwell-Povey (Share With All The New Mamas In Your Life!)

2024/11/2
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Alex Wombwell-Povey
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Natalie Ellis
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Natalie Ellis:分享了她作为新手妈妈的真实体验,强调寻求帮助、充足睡眠和制定适合家庭的日程安排的重要性。她还谈到了挑战传统育儿建议以及社区支持在应对育儿挑战中的作用。她坦诚地分享了自己雇佣夜间保姆和选择在夜间泵奶而不是母乳喂养的经历,并指出这些选择并没有对她的母乳喂养和孩子的情感依恋产生负面影响,反而让她得到了更好的休息,拥有了和孩子更美好的关系。她还分享了制定日程安排给她带来的好处,让她能够更好地掌控自己的时间,并预测一天的安排。 Alex Wombwell-Povey:分享了她的一些育儿经验,并与Natalie的经验进行了对比。她谈到了产后40天内不见客人的建议对她来说是不可行的,因为与人交往让她避免了精神崩溃。她还分享了关于婴儿与父母同睡、使用黑白玩具以及眼神交流等建议,并指出这些建议对她们并不适用。她还谈到了睡眠训练的重要性,并分享了她们是如何通过睡眠训练改善了睡眠质量,也改善了她们夫妻关系。她还提到,她们在育儿过程中也得到了很多帮助,并强调了这种帮助的重要性。 Alex Wombwell-Povey:分享了她作为新手妈妈的真实体验,强调了睡眠训练的重要性,并分享了她们是如何通过Cara婴儿睡眠训练法改善了睡眠质量,也改善了她们夫妻关系。她还谈到了产后40天内不见客人的建议对她来说是不可行的,因为与人交往让她避免了精神崩溃。她还分享了关于婴儿与父母同睡、使用黑白玩具以及眼神交流等建议,并指出这些建议对她们并不适用。她还坦诚地分享了她们在育儿过程中也得到了很多帮助,并强调了这种帮助的重要性,以及这其中可能存在的特权因素。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did Natalie Ellis choose to ignore conventional parenting advice?

She found it didn't align with her personal experience and needed a more tailored approach to motherhood.

Why did Natalie feel the need to hire a night nurse?

She experienced a traumatic birth and needed rest to recover, ensuring she could be a well-rested and loving mother.

Why did Natalie and Alex find schedules beneficial for their parenting?

Schedules provided predictability and structure, helping them manage their time and reduce stress.

Why did Natalie and Alex choose to sleep train their babies?

Sleep training helped their babies develop healthy sleep habits, leading to happier, more rested babies and parents.

Why did Natalie and Alex feel it was important to be honest about their parenting support?

They wanted to normalize seeking help and reduce the pressure on new moms to do everything alone.

Chapters
Alex and Natalie discuss their experiences with newborn care, sharing unconventional advice they ignored. Alex prioritized her own rest with the help of a night nurse, while Natalie embraced co-sleeping. Both found their chosen methods beneficial for their well-being and their babies' development.
  • Prioritizing rest and seeking help, such as hiring a night nurse, can be beneficial for both mother and child.
  • Co-sleeping can be a positive experience for some families, while others find separate sleeping arrangements more suitable.
  • It's important to find a routine and approach to newborn care that works best for each individual family, rather than strictly adhering to conventional advice.

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
中文

I'll be honest, I didn't read a single parenting book. I just thought, you know what? When she comes, I'll know what to do. I'm just laughing at the very hopeful, when she comes. I'll figure it. How hard can it be? And I was struggling. I was really, really struggling. I needed every bit of sleep that I could get. For me, the schedule does work because then it gives me predictability into my day. And we're six weeks into having a newborn baby. I feel like my whole life's up in shambles of like, what's my day look like? Yeah. That was really powerful for me. I also...

think it's pretty shitty when um people pretend they don't have help and they're doing it all on their own and I'm like I'm not going to pretend that because I did have help from a very from Noemi's very early age and I want to be really honest about that because I absolutely do not want any mum comparing themselves to me thinking that I'm maybe handling it better or whatever yeah absolutely not I I had help and if anything that is something that's always made me feel worse

like not knowing that someone's actually having help but they're making out that they don't and then I'm comparing myself thinking like well they're doing it all why can't I do it all but we don't have family here where I can just call up my mom and be like hey mom I'm really struggling today could you come around and watch the baby for half an hour so I do also just think that's worth bringing up as well where there's an extra factor here of not actually having support around you naturally so having to really call in that that extra team support a little bit more

Okay, babe. So whenever I post about this on Instagram recently, there have been so many moms jumping in being like, oh my God, same. And no one has ever said this before. So I thought let's bring it to the podcast. And I think it's gonna be interesting because I think we're gonna be the same on some things, but pretty different on some others. And I want to know what are the biggest pieces of motherhood advice that you got given that you ignored that actually made you a happier mom?

Oh, I think this could get spicy. Okay, I've made a list. I've got a list as well. Okay, let's do one each. My first one is co-sleeping. And I felt like I got so much advice that co-sleeping is the best thing for you, the best thing for your baby. Having your baby in another room is like so bad of you and all this stuff.

You want the complete honesty? Yeah. Like full honest truth. From day five, I had a night nurse. Good for you, babe. From day five, my night nurse came at 10 p.m. and she left at 6 a.m. Yeah. And guess what? My toddler could not be more securely attached. Yeah. She could not feel more loved. Yeah. I have a beautiful relationship with her. Yeah. And I was more well rested for it. Yeah.

and oh the shame I got for that. - I find this wow 'cause like I've seen your guys' relationship. You were literally, she's literally your mini best friend. It's so adorable. Like you say, so securely attached. And also like you've spoken about this before, you went through a lot in your labor and I think you needed the rest. - Yeah, I was, I went through an incredibly traumatic birth like you did. I came home from hospital

with PTSD yeah and I was struggling I was really really struggling I needed every bit of sleep that I could get oh I have so much more advice for this by the way oh my god there's more that just came to me from someone that said something so offensive to me um we'll get to that part but yes I mean I I struggled yeah and you know what let's get even more fucking real about this I didn't breastfeed through the night yeah so here's another thing um so

people would say, even the night nurses advice was, we'll bring the baby into you, you can feed and then I'll put the baby back to bed. But in the beginning, I mean, I ended up breastfeeding, I breastfed for 20 months. So we got the hang of it and became really, really easy. In the beginning, it was not easy.

I couldn't get, I was like, it took me so long to get her latched to my boob. There was milk flying everywhere. She's crying. We're all soaked in milk. Like it was a nightmare. And so during the day I would breastfeed all day, but at night I would pump every three hours and I would leave the milk outside my room and I would go back to bed. Yeah.

And my night nurse was an absolute angel sent from heaven. And truly she helped me get through that period of time. She would take the milk. She would feed Noemi. People would say to me, if you give her a bottle so early on, she will, um, she'll not latch anymore and she'll prefer that to breast and you'll have ruined your breastfeeding experience.

people told me this is going to affect your supply because not having her with you at night and pumping is going to change your supply yeah guess what i had perfect latch with noemi she she would have kept breastfeeding still to this day i was ready to wean yeah i never had a single supply issue none of that yeah so many people told me that what i was doing by pumping overnight was wrong

And even I started going really, really early on very long stretches because I mean, I was waking up every three hours and I was just really tired, like as we all are, but I was just really tired. And I thought, you know what? I'm just going to let my boobs wake me up. And so there were nights very like in the first couple of weeks where like sometimes I'd sleep six hours and then I'd wake up in agony and I have to pump.

But I just stopped doing that. That's such a quite good strategy. It didn't. My milk supply didn't change at all. And I started to be able to go through the night like really, really well. Like, and I always had enough milk for Noemi and it was great. And that just really supported us because...

Back in the day, we mothers were not the ones doing everything all the time. Yeah. We were in villages. Other women would take your baby so that you can recuperate from birth. They would breastfeed your baby because there was no formula. Right. We would all chip in. Yeah. And.

I'm sorry, but if like, if I'm living with another woman and she's just given birth, I'm saying to her, give me the baby tonight. I'll take care of the baby. You rest. 100%. Doesn't make you a bad mom and it's not going to mess up your baby. Yeah. It's actually going to be really good for you because I knew like I would. Yeah. So there you go. Like so much of that advice was around the pumping stuff. I got told you shouldn't be pumping this early on. You shouldn't be giving all this stuff.

My baby breastfed for as long as I wanted to breastfeed her. No supply issues whatsoever. And she is so securely attached that...

I'm so glad I did that but I know that's controversial but I'm glad you shared that as well because I feel like there's gonna be women listening who are like let's be honest like I was in this position motherhood can feel really scary and they might be that might be one of the biggest things that scares them so just even hearing that there are options and the support available can be such a like relief I remember the first time I heard about night nurses I was like oh

oh my god like there's other ways of doing this that gets to feel really good um we actually were going to do a night nurse and I'd gone through the process and everything and then actually ended up enjoying the night feeds which I didn't expect I really really didn't expect to do that but we did get a nanny from eight weeks which we'll go we'll go on to childcare in a minute

but the co-sleeping thing didn't work for us either. Like we, I've tried it. Leo is so wiggly. None of us sleep. We're all grumpy, but also Leo's grumpy. Like my child is grumpy if he slept in bed with us. Like we just don't sleep well together. And that's just our reality. Like, you know, great if it isn't, but for me, that advice didn't work at all. I think on that, another one that is, let's say early days actually.

um one piece of advice that I didn't follow was not seeing people for the first 40 days so there's this big thing now about I don't know where it originates from can you remember where it originates from um it's an Asian I'm not sure fully but yeah it's an Asian tradition it's the first 40 days I don't know if it originated in China yeah although bringing this up

someone comes to your house for those 40 days and cooks for you, binds you, like does all the things. So they're getting supported. But anyway, the whole principle is that you don't see anyone for the first 40 days. You're just in your bubble. You bond with your baby.

You don't leave the house. Like you're just in that bubble. That honestly would have tipped me over the edge. Like if I did that, I would have lost my tiny mind. Like there was no way I could have sat in the house for 40 days with me and my newborn baby and my husband and not seeing anyone. Like seeing people really made sure that I didn't spiral or tip or just feel like I was literally losing my mind. So I was actually really grateful to see people. I saw people really early on.

Yeah, I remember that for you. You guys came around. Yeah, I remember. You were like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah. Please come around. I was the opposite. I didn't want to see people. Really? No, so I really liked the... I mean, the first 40 days, I loved it. And also it was really hot here. So I had Noemi the end of May and it was like 100 degrees outside every day. So I wasn't really going out. But I didn't... I felt really... The only way to describe it is like energetically fragile.

And I think that a part of that is just what happened in birth. But I felt really energetically fragile that I didn't want to be in around anyone. Yeah. And I was very anxious and I didn't want Noemi around and I didn't want to deal with people trying to hold her because I didn't want anyone to hold Noemi. Yeah. For the first 40 days, the only people that held Noemi was me, Stephen and her night nurse. Really? I didn't know that. Not a single person held her. And I said no to every single person. Um,

And I'd seen three people in that time that came to the house, but they only came for an hour. Okay. And they came once.

And I didn't let anybody hold the baby. Oh my gosh. And that worked for me. That worked for me. I wouldn't let anyone, not even near it. Like there was, there just weren't like, I, yeah. And they would ask and I just didn't even feel bad saying no. I was like, no, no one holds the baby. That's so interesting to me. I was like, yeah, pass them around. Yeah. Have a cuddle guys. Even Stephen would have to fight to hold her. Really? Yeah. No, I just had her attached to me. Like until, um,

our night nurse arrived which by the way it might be a we might be saying it wrong it might be a baby nurse until they arrived at 10 p.m no one Stephen be like can I please hold no I mean I'm like okay just for a little bit like just had her attached to me 24 7 oh my god I love that that is hilarious he's asking for cuddles flipping off that something that's maybe a bit controversial which I actually did do but I wish I'd ignored our reflection was I was so present with my newborn baby this is probably so controversial I wish I'd watched more tv

honestly i would make sure i was staring at him holding him having him near and it made it really hard work and the do the best part the black and white toys guys do not buy a single fucking black and white toy is the big one going they only black and white toys black and white toys i'd be dangling these fucking toys in front of it you probably wouldn't even see that far at this point and

And I'm like, this is tragic for all of us.

you just wish I wish I'd put him in the bouncer and had a shower I wish I'd watched a bit more TV like what I was overly present I'm sorry so wait when he was like a newborn you didn't watch TV I mean occasionally if I was like holding him we'd put something on in the background but like I could have been running them box sets you know like I really could have been piling through some stuff I didn't I didn't pile through maybe watch like an hour or two a day which given you're in the house most of the day was not a lot

Wow, that's where we differ. Yeah. I watched so much TV. I wish you told me this. I just lay on the sofa with Noemi on my chest watching TV. That's the dream. And she just slept all day long on me. And that was a one-off opportunity because you now know when you have another child. That's not going to happen. You ain't going to be lying on the couch with the thing. That's all I did. I miss that golden era. But I did do with the black and white toys. Okay. And maybe some pediatrician's going to be like, you're a spring.

but I feel like I did nothing. That was, do you know, so like when we started doing schedules at six weeks, there was these wake windows and I can't remember if it was a 60 minute or 90 minute wake window. I didn't watch TV in that time. Like when she was a newborn, like the first 40 days, I would say I was watching a lot of TV. Schitt's Creek was my vice. But yeah,

When we started getting on a schedule, if she was awake for those 60 to 90 minutes, I would sit and play with her for 60 to 90 minutes. She couldn't do anything. And I'm with the black and white toys and I'm doing the tummy time and all this stuff.

it was so not neat like why was i doing that i could have been chilling i could have been cooking it like literally and then i was like oh i'll go get it done while she's napping wait why didn't you just put her in a bouncer and meal prep absolute psychopaths i don't get it yeah and then i'd also come in and jake would come in the room he'd be like you you okay hon i'd be like my fucking black and white toy is rocking just like this this isn't fun this is not fun

You know, like, it's like, why? Why didn't I just prep a meal? Why didn't I, like, even just read, read a book with him? I don't know. It's just honestly that I wish I hadn't followed the advice on. No, literally, I told myself this story that if I wasn't that 60 minute wake window, if I was not doting on her, every move she'd feel ignored. And she's like,

Okay, I'll give you one worse. Someone once told me if I didn't eye gaze with him whilst they're breastfed, he'd have behavioral issues.

No, I kid you not. Someone mentioned this in a fleeting comment when I wasn't even pregnant prior to babies and it permeated my brain. And I, like a psychopath, would be staring, eye gazing as we rest bed, not wanting to give him any behavioral issues. The whole time? Babe, the whole time. If he was looking, if he had his eyes closed, I would look away. But if he had those eyes open, I was gazing back.

I am dead. Psychopath. Oh my God. I just read my Kindle.

I was, she just wanted to breastfeed 24 seven, honestly. And I just put her in my Kindle. I mean, who told you? Babe, honestly, I can't, I can't. Let's talk about that schedule. I feel like that's, that's another one. Where are you on the schedules? So, um, I wish I'd done a schedule earlier. Yeah. Cause I'll be honest. I didn't read a single parenting book. I didn't, maybe I sound like a terrible mom. I didn't read any of that stuff. Me neither. Um, I just thought, you know what? When she comes, I'll know what to do. And I was honestly just,

my business was requiring a lot of me when I was pregnant that I didn't have a lot of extra time. Sorry, I'm just laughing at the very hopeful. When she comes. I'll figure it. How hard can it be?

But then when she, so, okay. So Noemi was, they called them Velcro babies on Instagram. Like genuinely, I mean, it was probably because I just held her 24 seven. I couldn't put her down. So like taking a shower was impossible. Like I could, she would only sleep on me. Like I couldn't put her down in the, in the bounce set and go in the shower. Well, let's say she would like not cry, but she would like whine. Right.

I don't, was it normal to let them whine? I don't know. But like the minute she made a peep, I would hop out the shower and pick her up. I don't know. So she would do these little wines and I would just say to Steven, I can't shower without her crying. And I don't actually think she was crying, but so anyway, like I couldn't do anything. Yeah. And she would just sleep like on me, like, like honestly, she would sleep and feed for the whole month, first month. That's all she did.

And I was like, it got to six weeks and I thought, oh God, I need to figure out how to shower. Cause Steven went back to work after four weeks. Like I need to figure this out because this is a nightmare. I can't wash my hair. Like I can't shower. Like I'm just sitting here till like noon, hoping she'll fall asleep. I can put her in the crib for five minutes, jump in the shower. Like I didn't have, I didn't, I was like, okay,

I'm going to try the schedule thing. So I put on a schedule and then people would say to me, most people don't be so rigid with the schedule because I'd be like, oh, nap times in 10 minutes. And I remember...

We had family visiting and it was a wake window and they took Noemi out with Stephen in the stroller and she fell asleep in the stroller and threw the whole schedule out. And I remember getting really upset over it. Not at them, but like honestly with Stephen being like that was the schedule. And he was like, well, should we not just ease up a little bit? Like I want to take her on a stroller walk.

To me, I actually was happier following a schedule. I'm going to be honest about that because I knew exactly what my days looked like with the schedule. Yeah. I would know this is my time to shower. This is my time to work out. This is my time to do other stuff. Yeah. And when she's awake, I'm playing with her. I'm with her. Yeah. And when that schedule was missed,

mixed up if she just randomly slept she would then be really cranky yeah and the only person she'd want is me yeah and that would really have a knock-on effect of my day if she's then really upset and overtired and won't sleep that was just it's just a lot and then you feel emotionally fragile as well because your baby's upset and then you're getting upset like it's just a totally and there's a house full of family and then i'm in the other room trying to soothe her because she's overtired like that just didn't work for me and so i remembered like

saying to Steven, do you know what? Maybe like the advice is actually don't be so rigid for me. And I'm the one that's taking care of her all the time. For me, the schedule does work because then it gives me predictability into my day. And we're six weeks into having a newborn baby. I feel like my whole life's up in shambles of like, what's my day look like? That was really powerful for me. And so I'm happy that it was, that was rigid.

And I would say to certain people, if you're gonna come over, it's this window. And I have one friend that's always late. And I ended up saying to her, she was an hour late. And I said to her, I'm sorry, but you've missed the window. Like this isn't gonna work. And I don't feel bad for that. - Yeah, no, you can't. I love that you actually gave the example there as well of just being like,

you're in the bedroom, soothing the baby, and you've got a house full of family, because that is so fucking relatable, where it doesn't matter how many people you've got around you. In certain situations, you're just mom, and no one's going to replace mom. But that's why it's important to support what the mom needs.

I'm with you, schedules, big. I feel like I spent a lot of the early days in survival mode without realizing it, particularly breastfeeding. I felt like I didn't know when he'd need to feed. And so I just constantly felt on edge. Like I remember having this thing where I felt like I couldn't even do like a 20 minute workout because I felt like as soon as I got on the mat, he'd need to feed.

and it just left me feeling like, even when I talk about it now, like tense, like I felt so on edge and actually getting more of a schedule in place. Like you said, like I knew more of the rhythms and more of the flow and what was going to happen when. And it's really funny because I used to think, and I'll be completely honest. I used to not judge, but I used to find it like a bit rigid when parents have these rigid schedules. I judged when people were

People were like, oh, sorry, we can't do lunch then because of da-da-da and da-da-da. I was like, guys, lighten the fuck up. Come on. I've got to go pump. I'm like, why can't you wait 10 minutes? Yeah. And now I'm like, oh, I get it. Yeah. And now I'm like, oh, my God, I get it. Like, I truly, truly get it because, like you said, it throws everything off. Then the baby's upset. And yeah. And I also think, like, related to that, you guys, I mean, you guys saved me and Jake because, like,

You brought up the magical Cara baby training. I mean, God bless Cara. I feel like she's a controversial character. People either love her or hate her. I think she's an angel sent from the heavens. Cara babies changed my life. Like we weren't sleeping and we were hanging on by a thread.

and like sleep deprivation is a form of torture can we just remember that yeah they that's how they fucking torture people I remember being in the hospital actually hallucinating because I hadn't slept so much like it was it's awful and you introduced us to the it's I would call it like gentle sleep training very gentle and I also do just want to say like being completely honest

you two were really struggling yeah me and steven i remember we seen you i think it was that morning yeah and i think you were really close to tears i could see it in your face yeah and the two of you what you could see it on the two like oh they are struggling right now and it means steven came home and we were like i think we should tell them we did taking care of babies like take it or leave it it worked for us i know it's like controversial in our friendship group

Yeah. But we'd said to you, can you please come round? Yeah. So we can tell you our experience with it. Yeah. Because if you're both not on the same page, it can cause a rift between the two of you. Yeah. And we literally asked you to come round that day. Yeah, we had a meeting. I was like, please come round, make you some coffee, but I need you both to sit and I'm going to tell you

all this then you can go and get the course yeah but let us tell you what it could do to your relationship if you're not on the same page yeah but i swear by it honestly you guys saved us

And I think also, like, I do want to be honest that I definitely felt if I found it hard because I did have a lot of friends who were like anti-sleep training. And also my Instagram algorithm was serving me similar things that you mentioned at the beginning with the night nurse. Like these, I still remember this post where it's like, I wake in the night and you are not there. And I feel so lonely and I'm so scared. Like all this just like bullshit. It was like written from the baby's perspective.

And so I was nervous around this whole thing and honestly, it was a lifesaver for us. And not only just for me and Jake,

Leo was sleeping and he's so much happier to the point now where I can see in him when he when we go off the schedule or he has a bad night or like whatever it is and he hasn't slept I can tell he's not as happy he's grumpy he struggles he has more tantrums like it just doesn't serve us as a family if we're not sleeping or doing that and

This might ruffle a lot of feathers. But I remember a lot of people saying to me from, you know, Noemi being maybe, let's say, nine months. Yeah. She's such a happy baby. She's so advanced. I mean, whatever advanced means, like, who knows what, like, baby's going to do their own thing. And my response would be, she sleeps. Oh, my God. I didn't think that was controversial. I could not agree with you more. She is... People have always said that to me. She's such a happy baby. Yeah. And...

she has slept yeah we've had a schedule yeah I mean I've always made sure she gets her naps in yeah and we had her sleeping 12 hours a night from I think it was about six months yeah we had we um you know we didn't have to do big cried out or any like scary things like that no I wasn't a big believer in that but we had her sleeping through the night and we would be around

you know, some babies that hadn't slept and were just, like, just, you know, go to, like, mum and baby groups and, like, you see other babies that haven't, and their mums are like, oh, he hasn't been sleeping or whatever. And the babies are exhausted and the parents are exhausted. Yeah. And people would always say, Noemi's happy. And I would say, yeah, because she's sleeping. I 1000% agree with that. Like, from personal experience, I, yeah, that's not controversial to me. And it's not to say that every baby needs sleep training to sleep. It's just for us,

and maybe Noemi was happier because we were happier and well rested I don't know but I would just notice when she was really having enough naps during the day when she was getting enough sleep at night she was so energetic in her wake windows and just happy yeah that and she was like coming on really fast and advancing really fast and yeah it just felt really good to us to figure that sleep thing out for all of us and

for me and steven too because i swear we would be so in love one day we would have a sleepless night and wake up and i'm like why are you breathing like that like we would just be at each other's throats yeah and we'd both have to stop midway through the day and be like i'm so sorry i love you this is sleep deprivation like i don't know why i'm being rude to you right now this is sleep deprivation and that's not good for your baby either yeah a hundred percent so

Just says what it is. And I also want to name like, yeah, this can sound like a really privileged conversation that we're having. The night nurses, all that stuff. I get it. And I'm just going to be really honest about our whole experience because I also...

think it's pretty shitty when um people pretend they don't have help and they're doing it all on their own and I'm like I'm not going to pretend that because I did have help from a very from Noemi's very early age and I want to be really honest about that because I absolutely do not want any mum comparing themselves to me thinking that I'm maybe handling it better or whatever yeah absolutely not I I had help and if anything that is something that's always made me feel worse

Like not knowing that someone's actually having help, but they're making out that they don't. And then I'm comparing myself thinking like, well, they're doing it all. Why can't I do it all? And I do agree with you. I think it is. I think it is. There are elements of privilege in here. Definitely acknowledging that. And yeah,

just on a slight balance to that as well, we both live as expats, which I do think is something worth bringing up because again, I've got a lot of expat moms in my community that I've spoken to and it is just different. Now that's not to say if you live at home, you automatically have childcare. Again, I have friends who have lost their parents and things like this. They don't necessarily have childcare around them, but

But we don't have family here where I can just call up my mom and be like, hey, mom, I'm really struggling today. Could you come around and watch the baby for half an hour? I don't have, oh, hi, my sister, can we go on a date night? Can you look after the baby for the evening whilst we do that? So I do also just think that's worth bringing up as well, where there's an extra opportunity

extra factor here of not actually having support around you naturally so having to really call in that that extra team support a little bit more no I actually think that's really important to name that because yeah there's like nobody no like it's just out here solo so yeah I've got other friends who are also in the thick of it also completely in the thick of it um

I just want to say really quickly, looking back to the sleep training thing about the happy baby. The other thing that I noticed is Leo would wake up really happy in the mornings. He won't wake up screaming. And also if he woke up in the night, he'd be really content. And I just noticed a level of peacefulness in him that I just want to note. Because I do think sometimes the internet makes you think that your baby's just screaming and you're ignoring a screaming baby. And actually, like I noticed, he would wake up and be feel really safe and then go back to sleep.

So just want to throw that out there. Just on that, I remember when we were doing the training with Noemi and she woke up in during the night, one of the nights, and I'd be so used to rushing to her side. And she woke up, she opened her eyes and she kind of just went, mmph.

And then adjusted positions and went back to sleep. And I remember just feeling so happy that she had like had that skill that she could put herself back to sleep. I'm like, that was such a, like a proud moment of like, oh, I'm really happy that you can do that and feel safe in her bed to like,

Just open her eyes, close her eyes again. I love that. Do you know, it just does remind me though, you know, you were saying earlier about when she'd like peep when you were showering. I remember having an argument with my husband's grandmother. I'm not proud of this. She's an older lady. I shouldn't have had an argument with my husband's grandmother. But we were at dinner and Leo was in the bassinet, like the lie down one.

And he made a peep and me and Jake rushed him. Rushed, leapt, leapt out of our chairs. Couldn't be quicker. I did not let that baby peep without leaping to his side. So he peeped. And she said to me, you know you don't have to get up every time he makes a noise. And I was so fucking offended.

I was like, what kind of cruel parenting does your grandmother expect me to do? Like, I can't believe this is so old fashioned. The judgment, I look back now and I'm like, Alex, like maybe you should have listened to her. Like the woman had multiple babies. She was a nurse. Like maybe she actually knew everything.

And that is worth noting. There's a difference between a peep and a cry, which I did not understand as a new mum. Like now I know the difference between you're gargling and you're crying. But at the time, yeah, I fell out with an older lady. No, I'm laughing because that was me. Noemi couldn't so much as go without me leaping, leaping. I mean-

oh my god it went but now like do you know what we're probably going to be those grandmas when our kids that like we will probably be like you know you don't need to and they'll be like oh my god so offended we'll send them this podcast we will but then you you just you just learn yeah but i never with hindsight now great but at the time i just didn't even i just thought oh god she needs me she needs me oh my no you this is hilarious

So I wouldn't even like want her to be like, she would sometimes I would like get her to sleep and me and Stephen would plan to sit and have dinner together. Yeah. And she'd make one peep, right? I'd have her in the like snuggle me thing or a baby born bouncer. She'd make one peep. I would leap up and we'd put the bouncer on the kitchen table. We did this just so that there was, if there was any peeps, I could just immediately touch her.

laughing but i'm also like oh yeah flashbacks yeah we had dinner as a three with the bouncer on the kitchen table on the on the kitchen table your guys bounced we borrowed your bouncer yeah you could do that exact thing wild and all she was doing was making a noise in her sleep literally it's literally the equivalent of us just like moving it yeah can you imagine if someone left you every is that freaking annoying probably woke them up more half the time oh my god i'm dead what else was there um

raw milk oh yeah listen I'm probably gonna get cancelled for this one but I give my toddler raw milk and I think it's great for her and she tolerates it really really well I give I give my toddler raw milk as well so I'll go down with you babe I've done the research and the research that I've looked at checks out um I've never had a single issue she is amazing yeah she's healthy yeah yeah and I'm gonna keep doing it

But can I just say, maybe to uncancel you, is the scientific research about how much more nutrients there are in it, how much more digestible it is, because it's got a certain enzyme in it, isn't it, that makes it easier? Yes, it digests so much easier. It has so many more vitamins in that are more bioavailable. There's just so much research on it, and I went down so many rabbit holes. I get raw, organic vitamins.

pasture raised A2 milk and I'm very specific about where I get it from and I'm going to keep doing it and as a whole family we I give her raw milk we have raw cream in the house we do raw cheese yeah and we absolutely love it yeah

Well, same. And I do have a story on this. What? So Leo got like a mystery illness at one point, which turned out, I'll ruin the ending, it was hand, foot and mouth. But the way it originally showed up was he had a fever, he was crying. And you know what it's like when they're a baby. Oh, yeah. They can't tell you what's wrong, but you can tell there's something wrong. Anyway, his fever got really high. It was like 104. So we go into the hospital. Yeah.

Go to the emergency room. Well, I have taught myself in a loop on the way to the hospital and I have convinced myself that I have poisoned my child with raw dairy and this is why my child is mysteriously ill. It must be the raw dairy and I must confess my sins immediately to the doctor so that they know what's wrong with him so they can diagnose the raw, whatever he's got from the raw dairy and we can get him the help he needs. You never told me this.

me this i've not told you this babe it's so bad so we get to the emergency room they tend to i don't know if it's the same in the uk but like they tend to hear like see you very fast if it's to do with a baby so they see us super fast and we're like his temper they're like yeah his temperature's really high and i'm like but it is and she's like okay and she's like and i'm like i thought it was like ranting ranting like a crazy woman the doctor the doctor laughs at me she laughs and goes

it's the raw dairy the doctor herself and obviously this is not all doctor's opinion so I can't like make a sweeping generalization but she was like it's okay to give him raw dairy this isn't from the raw dairy um what my god yes I was literally like they're gonna call child protective services on me because I've poisoned my child with raw dairy I went I went was down all the rabbit holes in the car and uh yeah no it turns out I just had hand foot and mouth

Well, I'm laughing though, but the amount of things that I like went down the rabbit hole with is ridiculous. Like, okay, I can think of two ridiculous things that happened, right? So one time...

I'm on FaceTime with my friend and Noemi was maybe three weeks old and I was just doing a quick FaceTime. I mean, I shouldn't have really been FaceTiming. I was exhausted. I was very hormonal. Like I just was like, you know what? Yeah, I'll be a good friend. Like I'll have this call. Right. Anyway, Noemi needs a diaper change midway through. So I just take the phone in with me and I open her diaper and there was just like this weird looking black stuff in her diaper. Right.

on the call on FaceTime, I just go and I start hysterically crying. My friend Sarah's like, what's wrong? What's wrong? Are you okay? Are you okay? And I say, Sarah, I'm going to call you. So I hang up and I call the doctor immediately sobbing. I've just opened Noemi's diaper and something's reading. And I thought, I'm like hysterical. And the doctor was okay. Tell me what it is. And I said, fuck. And she said, it's a pump. She just pumped in the diaper. That's it.

That's it for an American toot. It's basically a skid mark. Yes. And I was like, but it's black. Do you want a picture of it? And they were like, no, that's normal. And I had to call my friend back and be like, um, just false alarm. And she doesn't have kids. And was like, oh, okay. Do you react like that to everything? I'm like, yes, fine.

Oh my God, that is amazing. Isn't that ridiculous? If it helps, I did one with a poo as well though where it looked a bit like chalky. Well, I Googled it and Leo was in liver failure. Ha ha ha!

There's like no, there's no like mild, mildness. It's like nought to 100. I think I sent that actually to the mum's group, that photo of his poopy diaper being like, does this look chalky to you guys? Because in my head, he now was in liver failure. It's so bad. One time, Alexi was coming round to my house for coffee one morning and she opened the door and I'm in tears and I was like, thank God you're here. I just need your advice. She's like, oh my God, what's wrong?

like just she has a rash so she comes in noemi's room i'm taking noemi's clothes i'm like i just don't know what it is and obviously alexi had a four under four at that time she was like oh yeah it's just a baby rash and i was like but is she okay do i need to take out the hospital she's like she'll be fine does she have a temperature no does she have any symptoms no then she's fine okay can i defend you on this one though

we grew up in the UK at the time where I remember constantly seeing on the TV the meningitis rash. Oh, the roller glass over it? Roller glass. Oh, trust me, babe. I've been rolling glasses since.

that's not a thing over here. They don't roll glasses. So we recently had another one where I was like, oh my God, is it a mental illness? Rolled a glass. It didn't disappear. I was like, get him to the doctors. And the doctor was like, the roller glass thing isn't a thing, guys. So apparently it's not a thing over here. But I think this is why we're traumatized by ramblers. I just would cry. I mean, I was home all day, but I would cry over everything. Yeah. The slightest scare and I'm in floods of tears. Stephen, Stephen, come downstairs. Please.

Babe, I feel like we're going to have to do a part two to this. I feel like there's so many more. I'm so glad that you brought this topic up though, because just looking back, I just feel so much compassion for myself, but so much confidence about when I choose to do it again. Yeah. And I also hope that like a new mom can listen to this. Yeah. And realize that A, it's normal to feel completely psycho about things, but maybe she can also learn from some of our mistakes and just like relax a little bit as much as is possible as a newborn. Oh my God. Yeah.

Thank you for being on, babe. This was amazing. Wait, wait, wait, before you go, I would love to send you my seven figure CEO operating system completely free as a gift.

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