382. The Mindset Every Successful Entrepreneur Needs w/ Natalie Ellis & Lindsay Roselle
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I really believe in paying fewer team members really, really well. A really good A player will do the job of like,

for C players preparation and practice yeah it's not sexy you know it's practice gotta go throw free throws you know at four in the morning like all the basketball players do or whatever but that's the stuff when it's game time that makes you look so so good like it makes you perform at the highest level what does a really happy life look like to me the inner work baby that's what it always comes back to I just had a million dollar idea today oh we are doing it isn't it good it's so good

Welcome back to the Boss Babe podcast. Me and Lindsay were literally just talking for so long and I was like, wait, can we just hit record? So we're just diving in. We were talking about booking photo shoots and I was saying, I really feel like if you don't book glam, like hair and makeup, or you know how to do it really well yourself, you end up really regretting it when the photos come back. Because I don't know, like every time I see, like I'm...

So I never wear makeup in my day to day and I feel so comfortable not wearing makeup. But whenever I have a professional photo shoot and I don't really have much makeup on, I swear I look so much better in real life. Like the professional camera just does something. I don't know. Yeah, I feel the same way. That's what I was. That's what I was saying. I was like, I, I, I see I'm like, I feel like I'm wearing makeup and I feel like I look good in the mirror and then I see the photos and I'm like, oh, yeah.

interesting. Like that's not what I thought I looked like. But then when I have like full, full glam on and I see myself in a mirror, I'm like, that is a lot of makeup. It looks great in photos. And so yeah, it's always photos are more is more on the makeup side for sure. And I feel like that with well with outfits too, though, like sometimes photoshoot outfits, I'm like, Oh, I wouldn't really wear this in my day to day life. And then on camera, it just works.

Yeah, no, I was thinking about that this weekend, especially with makeup and, and clothing, talking to you about photo shoots where it's like, no, you really have to like invest in good makeup for a photo shoot and then go buy clothing that you would probably you'll, you'll never wear again. But for the photo, it looks really good in the photo. And I'm like, Oh, I need I need help in this category, because my normal wardrobe is not like photo, photo worthy at all. Yeah.

But yeah, I'm excited to get updated photos and more updated photos because I feel like that's my life update right now is I'm really in this journey of

Wes is just five. You know, he just turned five this week. And I'm like, damn, I have a five-year-old. Like, I don't have babies anymore. I'm like in my mom is back era or something. I don't know. But I want like cool clothes. Like I want to pay more attention to how I look. And I know I work from home. So I don't know how often I'll actually do this. But yeah.

I'm like, I want to put makeup, a little bit of makeup on. Like, I want to do my hair. Today's not the best example, but I want to do my hair. I want to think about what I'm wearing and not just like throw on leggings and walk out the door every time. Um, and I like, I have not felt that way. Most of the time I've been like, I don't care. I work from home. I get, I get to just wear leggings every day. Um, so this is new for me where I'm like, I actually kind of like want to try and I want to, I want to take pride in getting ready in the morning. Um, so we'll

We'll see. We'll see. I like that for you. I can intro you to a stylist too who will work with you virtually. But okay, so my hack with photo shoots, I don't book a lot of photo shoots because when I do them, I like to do them right. So I always like to make sure I have makeup, hair, and styling. Like I just want to be able to turn up and get the most out of my photo shoot because yes, it's more expensive, but

But I am telling you, you get the absolute most out of the shoot because you're already paying for the photographer's time. So if you have someone there that, you know, make sure your hair and makeup looks good, but then is also styling you and has already picked out all the outfits you're going to wear, there's no time wasted in between. Like, does this look all right? Should I do it like this? You just...

and they like experiment they can like get outfits such as translate better in photos it always helps and I feel like it's actually so much more efficient so yes the investment's a little higher but I think it actually levels out overall I'm a big big fan of it how okay this really naive question but how does styling work do they buy the clothes for you or do they like tell you what to go buy yourself

Okay, so it's different if you work with a stylist for like day-to-day outfits or speaking, podcasting, stuff like that, or a stylist for a shoot. So if you hire a stylist for a photo shoot, stylists have agreements with all the stores and brands that they work with where they pull all of the looks. So my last photo shoot that I did two weeks ago, I always work with the same stylist whenever I'm in California. And so she turns up

an hour before the shoot and she sets up the whole, like she takes a whole room and she sets all of the looks up and say, I want like four looks. She'll bring 20. She's like, you might not like every look. And I want to try and get you the most looks as possible in this time. So they set up all the clothes, all the shoes, all the bags, jewelry, everything. And so the stylist I work with Isabel, when I'm doing photo shoots, I mean, she like fully gets me ready. She,

every little detail like rings earrings everything and she like she'll look at the way something's translating on camera and like really adjust things just to make sure it looks good on camera but then if you want to work with a stylist who styles you for certain events I prefer virtual personally just because I haven't found someone that I love in Austin I had an in-person person in LA but I I

I'll only I'll work with them for like speaking or when I really want support and what I'm going to wear or like pulling together a capsule wardrobe which has been a great investment for me because I feel like every day I just know what I'm wearing this and everything seems to match but um yeah so when you work with someone like that they'll just like send you a bunch of looks for speaking maybe like three options and then they'll order it for you and send it to your house so it's

really really helpful so I do that if I'm going to keep the clothes but I don't want to buy a bunch of clothes that I'm never going to wear again for a photo shoot yeah okay well when I get ready to book one this summer I'm gonna I need all of these this whole like playbook the Natalie photo photo shoot playbook because I that's how I feel is like if you're going to pay for it photo shoots are not just the photographer these days is quite the investment and so yeah you know you want you want to get every single photo for the most part to be something that you would use and

Um, whether it like how you look in it or how the clothes look in it. That's the other thing I think with clothing too, is like, if you end up wearing something that doesn't feel like you, it might look beautiful, but you're like, Ooh, this isn't, this isn't me. Like it doesn't feel, where would I use this photo? You know, especially people like us who are using it for social media or personal brands and stuff. So having a stylist that understands how to make it look good, but also serve you or the purpose you need it, um,

Okay, well, this makes me excited. Yeah, and we're gonna, I mean, we're gonna get into more of this stuff as the episode unfolds. But as we talk about the mindset that every entrepreneur needs, that's definitely part of my mindset is if I'm doing something like a photo shoot, I don't do them often, but I want to really make the most of it and get the most ROI out of it. So I spend a lot of time planning to make sure I'm not just like doing loads of them and then still needing to actually

like redo the imagery and update things like I do them less frequently, but I really prep for them. I'm such a prepper. I love to get my mani pedi spray tan, make sure my brows are done. Like I'm high maintenance, but I prep all of that ahead of the shoot, lashes, everything. And then I just know when I get my pictures back, I feel really good about them. They're going to last me a really long time because I'm also really effective. Like if I have four hours, I'm probably going to do

15 looks and like I do a lot of layering jackets on off like to just get the most out of each like outfit that I shoot and then as soon as I have the shot I switch like I don't just try and get a hundred photos in one outfit it's like okay once I've got it I've got it let's move on because then I can use it on different websites on different pages and it just changes the look of things so that's how I do it I

I feel like I've done so many of them over the years that it just keeps getting more and more efficient. And I also will notice like if I put the time into really prepping for my shoots, I feel so much more confident on my shoot. Like if someone's there, if I feel prepped,

The way I look and then someone said do my hair and makeup and I like how it looks and my clothes look good. I feel more confident. That translates in the images as well. So when it comes to a mindset of an entrepreneur, my mindset is if I'm going to invest in something, I'm going to really invest in it. Like I don't half-ass things. I'm going to go all in. I'm going to invest. I'm going to get what I need out of it, make the most of it.

And then be able to use it across the board. And I also prep every single photo shoot I go into. I know what I want out of it. And I give the photographer it ahead of time. I give them a Pinterest board and I give them a shot list of like, I want a landscape look like this. I want me with a coffee like this. I want portrait pictures like this. Like a very detailed shot list.

And every photographer that I've worked with has always said that's really, really helpful because they then tick them off as they go along that day. I want a shot on my phone. I want a shot on my laptop. I want a landscape one like this, a portrait one like this. Plus the Pinterest board where I'm like, let's recreate these images because these look really good. All of that just helps me make them absolutely most out of the shoot and most out of the investment.

Yeah, I love it. And this is what I wanted to talk about today because I think there's so many examples like this where it's a tactical thing in the business and it's a write-off. You can write everything we just described is all a write-off for your business too. And it's getting at these ideas of mindset do's and don'ts that we wanted to talk about today. And one of them was investing in the things...

being okay with investing more to get a better outcome when it's something that you're going to use over and over. Cause I think sometimes it's like the analogy of the fast fashion. It's like, I can go buy a whole season's worth of new looks at H and M for really cheap, but they only last one season and they don't feel as good on, they maybe don't fit as well. Or you can go buy two or three capsule looks at a much more expensive boutique and they will be

beautifully compliment you last a long time and be timeless classic pieces that you can wear for many seasons and maybe they're three or four more times expensive but you get much more longevity and a better fit out of them and I feel like that mindset is

took me a long time to learn in life and business of like well I would rather have more more things and spend spend the same amount of money to get a lot more things versus spend this spend the same amount of money and get less things or less of something but better quality and I think that I

I've heard you talk about that even with systems where it's like, let's just find like you don't need you don't need every single system that's out there in your business. You can get a couple systems and really use them to their full capacity, really learn how to use them well, and you'll get further in business. So does that does that resonate as like one of the number one mindset dues that we have, like invest in?

Go deep on your investment in the things that really matter in your business. 100%. Yes, it resonates. And even, you know, I really believe in paying fewer team members really, really well because they will do the job. A really good A player will do the job of like four C players and they should be paid really well.

And that is so much nicer to me personally to have fewer people in the business, fewer people to manage, but real weapons, like real A players who are amazing. I'd rather pay more to get the best.

And so I really do feel like that across the board. And listen, in the early stages of business, it wasn't necessarily like that. It was just like, I need contractors. I need just any extra hours I can get from someone to just take some stuff on my plate. I totally will. But then when budget started allowing it, I wanted to start hiring better.

better in terms of skillset, you know, can be fully dedicated full-time to the business and is a real A player, cares about the business, can execute at a really high level. I found that to also be a huge, huge thing that's moved the needle for me. And I really, I do think about that a lot when we're thinking about hiring people. I think about, okay, there's these open roles, but what if we made this into one like big role that someone excellent could do?

And so that's been massive. And I, I do think again, in the early stage of business, you know, maybe I couldn't afford to work with the best photographers and things like that, but I still could be prepared. I still could bring my best, even though I couldn't hire the best, but I like to take that approach to things. And I think it really, really pays off and it's much less of a headache to, to just get, yeah, get something done. Right.

And simpler is amazing. Well, I wrote that down as number two of our dues is preparation and practice. Like that, I think one of the main entrepreneurial mindset things that has helped me and it wasn't natural, you know, in the beginning is this tendency. And I think this excuse or almost this free pass that entrepreneurs get where you can kind of like

fly by the seat of your pants because it's entrepreneurship and like I'm just going with the flow and there's a little bit of this like bypassing on actually being prepared for things and practicing things and showing up really really ready to do your best at everything where I think in the corporate world it felt a little bit more skewed to that side where it was like you know there's

You're in a role in the corporate world and there is a hierarchy and you are expected to do this job really, really well. And you have to do this job really, really well to get to the next job, to get the promotion. Right. And I think in entrepreneurship, because we're all working for ourselves, we can kind of let ourselves off the hook when we aren't showing up as our best or we we jump into something not fully prepared. And you and I talk so much internally with our team and with each other and and just as our own selves around entrepreneurship.

preparation and practice and like, okay, we, we know we want to be really, really good at this thing. Okay. What do we need to practice so that we're individually really good at it? What do we need to prepare for and how do we prepare? And what do we as a team do or, um, inside the business do to prepare for excellence in this thing? Um, and it's like, not, it's not sexy, you know, it's practice. It's like, got to go throw free throws, uh, you know,

you know, at four in the morning, like all the basketball players do or whatever. But that's the stuff when it's game time that makes you look so, so good. Like it makes you perform at the highest level. And we really try to apply that. And do you feel like, did you have to learn that or have you always been that way? I don't know. Maybe this is a really annoying answer, but I've always been that way. No.

No, it's not annoying. It's so who you are. I feel like these are the things people don't know about you. Like that's Natalie that you are that person and you, you really call all of us forward who aren't naturally that way. Like, I think I'm naturally much more of a kind of show up half prepared and rely on my charm sometimes.

But you really have called me forward of like, no, you need to be prepared for this. Like, what are you going to say? How are you going to handle it? And in doing that, I feel better in circumstances where you've been like, no, you really need to prepare for this. Like, this is going to be harder than you think. And I'm like, oh, okay. All right. Like, I'll prepare for it. And then I do. And then I show up and I'm like, oh, shit, I'm so glad you had me prepare for that. Because if I had just shown up, I probably, I would have been okay. But like, it would not have been as smooth or as easy or felt as good. And so...

I love that you're honest about that. Well, there's like this tendency to just be humble or whatever and be like, oh, yeah, you know, I had to learn it. But no, like I just have always had a really high standard for myself. And I also, you know, if I'm being totally honest, I have a really high standard for everyone around me, too. That

It's just important to me. So I've always had a high standard. Like, I think it used to drive my friends crazy when I was at university. I was never that person that would hand something in hours before the deadline. That's just not the way that I would ever work. I always had my deadline in my head and I worked towards my deadline. I was always so prepared. I showed up to everything really, really prepared. And I was always like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this.

And I mean, I remember that I remember one class I didn't show up to prepare in university and it still sits with me now. Like that's how important this shit is to me. I can still remember the feeling we walked into. I was in business school. We walked into one of our classes and I was only first year too. So I was like, oh, you know, I'm not going to prepare for this. I got this and I walked in.

and he'd like asked us to read part of a book and he said put your hand up in this class if you haven't read the book and i thought well i'm not gonna lie because if he calls on me and asks me to talk about it i'm gonna get caught out so i put my hand up and i wasn't the only one by the way i think

60-70% of the class put their hand up and he said, "Okay, I'd like you to leave please because that doesn't work in my class. You will not show up here unprepared and if you haven't prepared, please do not walk through that door because that doesn't fly here and it certainly won't fly when you leave university." And the shame that I felt getting up and walking out of that class

And it's just stuck with me. And I just, I remember just loving that he set that boundary and being like, that is someone that I will never fuck around with. I am going to show up to every single class so prepared. And I felt so grateful that there was someone calling me forward in that way. And it was so rare of me not to prepare. But that one moment I was like, I'm never doing this ever again because I don't like how it feels to let myself down. So I'll never not prepare. Yeah.

whether it's speaking whether it's podcasting whether it's a meeting I just prepare for absolutely everything I go in and I just know what I'm going to talk about what I'm going to share things like that it's even you know I was actually reading this in a book the other day and it kind of reaffirmed how I felt but

People often will talk about brainstorming being a really good way to come up with ideas and stuff. I've never personally felt that way because I feel like I brainstorm so much better on my own. And in the book, I kind of reaffirmed that it was like ideas can be ruminated on and made better in groups, but generally the best ideas come from solitude.

And that's how I've always felt too. So even if it's like a group brainstorm, I'm going to prepare and bring my best ideas. I'm not just going to turn up. And I think that's just really important for entrepreneurs generally. Like I think we have to, and also we talk about freedom-based businesses, right? That's not the easy road. Just having a freedom-based business doesn't mean having an easy business. It doesn't mean just like, you know, showing up half-assed. It means,

mastery. It means excellence. And so I really think entrepreneurs should be prepared. I think we should hold ourselves to a really high standard because you certainly can't complain if your team don't prepare, if you're not leading that way. I think entrepreneurs should be incredibly resourceful. I don't think there should like really ever be an excuse. And I just have always believed that honestly, since my early twenties, when I got into business, I feel like I've always believed that because there was never another option. There was nothing to fall back on. There was

That was it. It had to work or it didn't. So yeah, that's me kind of like going on a little bit of a rant. But for being honest, I just think that's really important. And when I see that in someone, like another entrepreneur, if, you know, someone books a VIP day and turns up with me and they're unprepared, that's a huge red flag to me.

Yeah. And so now I make sure I have a prep call with them and I make them bring stuff to that call because I'm like, I don't want to. That's not about the money. I just don't want to work with you if you're going to come super unprepared and it's going to be a waste of everyone's time. I'd rather not get paid and not waste my time. Well, yeah, I've witnessed this and I concur. And I think.

It's very evident. I think you and I too, you get to a certain point where you start to have this like sensor radar for it, right? Where you're like, Ooh, I can already tell where this is going just based on how, how some, someone or something presents from the beginning or you're like, they're not ready for this conversation. So it's definitely like a takeaway from hearing this is people sense if you're prepared or not. And I think a lot of us, like I I've been able to,

I used to feel pride in this, that I could charm my way through things. And I feel like I did that a lot in college where I'm like, maybe I didn't read the book, but like I am smart enough to still write a good essay or I'm smart enough to still do well enough on the test or whatever. But like real life will filter that out. And it will be very evident that you haven't prepared and that the people that did are the ones who will win, you know? And so I think it's, that's like the school of real life where, um,

These are important lessons. And it's a respect thing too, especially if you're in collaboration or you have clients or people have paid for your time and you're showing up to something not ready to serve them. I think that's the thing that drives me crazy where you buy a program or you buy into a mastermind and you show up and the people are not prepared and you're like,

or the person delivering the program has not prepared to hold space or to deliver the content they promised and you're like this doesn't feel good you know like I invested in you and you're not ready um I've had that by the way I've yes I brought someone in to facilitate and I trusted them and they didn't prepare and it was so obvious and I just thought well I'm never ever going to work with you ever again I'm not going to recommend you because this is a big letdown and so you

you know, it just doesn't, it doesn't work well for your reputation. So this, this leads into the third one that I had for us, which I, I, I'm excited to hear your thoughts on this. So my dad always said, my dad was an entrepreneur and growing up, he always said to me, Lindsay, like,

you have to chop wood and carry water, chop wood, carry water, which is essentially, I think like a Japanese proverb of, of it doesn't matter whether you are the peasant or the emperor. So you still have to chop wood and carry water. Like that is how you survive. And I think in our modern life, and you and I talk about this a lot, it's like everyone on our team executes.

In our own lives, we execute, right? We aren't just strategists. We aren't just ideation people. We don't just get to have the ideas and sit at the top of the throne and make sure everybody else is the one chopping the wood and carrying the water for the team. There's this mindset in entrepreneurship that, well, I see it both ways. I see a lot of entrepreneurs who stay in the day-to-day world.

And maybe to their own demise, you know, where you're like, you have to delegate better. You have to get out of this. But there's also the people who,

It's like they get to a certain level and they're like, I don't want to do that anymore. I don't want to have to do this. Like I only want to do what only I can do and or only what I want to do. And I think that can also work against you in your own business or in your entrepreneurial mindset where you get to this entitlement feeling of like, oh, well now I'm making enough money or I've done this enough. I shouldn't have to do this anymore. And I think that's, that's a slippery slope into getting out of touch with your customer or perhaps, you know,

you know, having an energetic imbalance in your business where I don't think as entrepreneurs we can ever totally remove ourselves from the mission of the business, especially if you're the person, the personal brand or the person driving the business because your energy is so intertwined with the

the success of the business and the reason your customers are there to begin with. And so for me, like I call it this like chop wood, carry water attitude that you're never above anything. Like if wood needs chopped so that there's a fire in the fireplace for the business, you're chopping the wood. If water needs carried so that people in your village can drink, you're carrying water and you're never too good for it.

And you can never come to your team, any anyone, you know, like when we say this on our team, it's like no matter what your title is, you execute stuff like everyone has admin on our team. Everyone is responsible for execution. And I think that is a really important thing for entrepreneurial mindset around being willing to do the hard stuff when the hard stuff needs done. Yeah.

I think that is so incredibly important. And honestly, not even just for entrepreneurs. I mean, I think it's really, but I don't, I think as entrepreneurs that there should never be a job below you. And I think it's actually really important to sit in all the seats in your business because you can really manage better from that place. Like I know how long things take. I know what the process looks like. You know, I can cover if need be. I think that part's really important. It also creates a level of safety. Like, you know,

Not everyone's going to be with you forever and it's good to know what they do and know that you can do their job. But beyond that, one of the biggest red flags for me in team members is when they don't want to execute or they think something is below them and when they say they want to move into a strategy seat.

What that tells me is, hey, you really should go and work for a consulting firm and consult and tell other businesses what to do. Because in this business, the only time someone is getting promoted is when they take on more responsibility to deliver more results. There's no such thing as I want to do more strategy and less execution in a startup. It just doesn't work that way.

Yes, if you're the founder of the business, you're going to be more strategic, but you're also still going to execute this still execution needs to happen. And it just looks very different at every level. But yeah, that's such I mean, just generally, that's a red flag for me. I as soon as I hear it.

It just waves this big red flag in my mind. And I'm like, there's something not connecting here. Like this needs to be a conversation. Yeah. The other piece of this that I think is interesting, and I wonder how you feel about this. I had this conversation with a friend last week around, um,

As an entrepreneur or someone who's like so high achieving and works a lot like we do, you know, this friend was saying, observing that I work a lot and was like, how, you know, how do you feel about how much you work like it seems like you work a lot and I'm like yeah I loved but I love to work and blah blah blah. And

they were asking like, well, what do you do that isn't work? What do you do that's working with something where, but you don't have to think about it. It's not, it's not strategized. And I was like, oh man, like yard, yard work was the example they used. And they used to own a really successful business and, and sold it and said doing yard work was a really important way that they would decompress from, to be able to think like it got them out of

out of work mode and into like visioning and just letting thoughts flow. And I was like, Oh, how interesting. Cause it's kind of the same principle of sometimes you just have to just mellow and, and go do something like chopping wood or carrying water, like something that is very, um, tactile and executional in the business or in your life where you're

You aren't up in the clouds thinking about all the problems and you aren't trying to strategize anything. You're just in the day-to-day of life with all of the circumstances that you're in. And it gives your brain this outlet to have the great idea or to let something go or to process something that needs processed. And I think this is another nuance of entrepreneurial mindset do's where it's like you almost have to have something outside of the business that is some kind of work, you know, like a hobby or something that,

gives your brain that repetitive, executional work, quote unquote work, so that you can process some of the stuff that's hard to process inside of the business or inside of the day to day of your life. And that's one of the things I feel like I've been missing recently is like, I don't have a lot of those hobbies or practices in my life. And I'm feeling like then I end up

ruminating on things all day long you know and it's like oh this is a big piece of entrepreneurial mindset is to get out of the business and go process externally in other ways so do you feel like how do you do that um do you have something that is completely tangential to the business that helps you process where you have ideas I don't know if I have necessarily like a hobby or something that I'm doing that helps me get out but I know white space is really important for me

So I definitely think everyone needs it. I think everyone needs thinking time, but white space is just really, really important. As soon as I have that, I have more clarity, more energy, more aliveness, everything. And that always floods into the business. But when I am stuck in the business and I'm back to back and it's meetings and it's launches and it's execution and it's things and things,

There's not really much time to pull out and kind of see the wood for the trees and really have a sense of where you want to go, new ideas, things like that. Whereas things that I do that really, really support me is working out.

I love reading. I love just sitting with a cup of coffee outside in silence. I love driving either with music on or a podcast on just like little pockets of time throughout the whole week that I

gives me that white space and gives me the time to think. Like today, this is what I started having meetings at 2.30 p.m. today. So I had a 2.30 till 3 and then I have this podcast 3 till 4. But before that, I had nothing on my calendar. And I should show you to the side of me, I have 12 pages of writing and notes and graphics and curriculum and ideas and

Because I did the same thing last Friday, full day of white space, and I picked it back up today and everything's flowing. Whereas if I was back to back, if I started my day with meetings, that wouldn't have happened. Whereas when I can end my day with a meeting or like something like this, where I'm actually like on a call talking, it would happen. So I like that. And I like for my time to not be so time bound. Like, okay, you have an hour to think, go think. Like that just doesn't work for me.

So, yes, and I don't think we should have our entire lives wrapped up in the businesses either. I think that in the beginning, sometimes that's necessary. Like sometimes in the beginning when you're just trying to get something off the ground, it's going to require like every minute of your day. I get that. But I think as your business starts to find its footing and a bit more stable ground, it's really important that your entire life isn't wrapped up in the business. Yeah.

That just breeds so many more problems. It breeds your worth being tied up in the business, your identity being tied up in the business, you know, your happiness being tied up in results, your confidence being tied up in, you know, clients. There's just a lot of problems that come with that. And I can just say that from perspective of being in that many, many times. So I really try for my business not to be the biggest part of my life and not to be like

the thing that I just think about 24-7, which is really hard as an entrepreneur. But, you know, like I texted you last night at like 8 p.m. I just had a million dollar idea today. Like I am an entrepreneur at heart. I'm always going to think in business stuff, but I really try to not just like constantly ruminate on it. Yeah.

Which, by the way, is a really good idea. And I think we should do a note. Oh, we are doing it. But we're not going to tell the people yet because it has to come to life and then everybody's going to want it. It's so good. We like can't stop, won't stop with the ideas and the generator. Let's just do a million things at once. OK, this is the last one on the do's list. And then I want to talk about some don'ts. But the last one on the do's list that also comes off of what you just said is I think one

one of the mindset do's that I've learned from you and, and, and in my own personal work over the last few years. And I think you and I talk a lot about is understanding what your set point is around money, around what is enough around freedom, around time, really being honest with yourself and unapologetic about your personal set point of enoughness for you, right? Where it's like,

how much money and why, how much free time and why? Because just like what you just said, there are seasons where you're like, this is an 80 hour a week season because this is brand new and it's, and I don't have a family yet and I'm going to go all in on it. I'm going to work my full-time job on the side or I'm gonna work my full-time job and I'm gonna build this business on the side. And like the set point is really high at that point, right? Like you have a high tolerance for time invested in everything. You're trying to make as much money as possible. Like there's

The seasons of your set point, but I think where the mindset of this can become problematic is when we aren't honest with ourselves or we are responsive to some outside pressure on the set point and now all of a sudden we are aiming for targets or we are, you know, just

flying down the highway pursuing something that isn't truly aligned for us and we are not taking the time to go why and why am I doing this what is really enough for me and when I hit these set points like the income set point or the recognition or whatever the things are and you get there and your first inclination is like oh I want more now you know I think there's so many questions and so much mindset to learn in those opportunities and I think naturally a lot of our culture is like

more is more is more. There is no, there's no set, no such thing as a set point. It's just always more. And, and I think that that's actually a very negative mindset for a lot of us to be in because it sends us down paths that burn us out, or it sends us down paths that take us very far out of alignment. And then we blow up our businesses or we blow up our marriages or we blow up our health or whatever happens. And it's all tied back to this question of like, at what point in your mind did you override your natural set point or your

your truth to pursue something that wasn't yours or that that wasn't really true or you're aligned. And I know we talk about this a ton, but how do you feel about the mindset of what is enough and how do we practice knowing what that is and being honest?

really unapologetic about guarding our truth there. I love that. You're bringing up so many, you're dropping so much fire on this podcast. I'm like, damn it. I'm making so many notes. So good. See, preparation is key. Yeah. We were prepared. I love it. It shows. Yeah. This is a really, really interesting one. And I also think it's so much more prevalent in America, like Canada, the UK, those kinds of cultures, right?

I mean, I know these cultures, but it's very different to like European culture. I think everyone's kind of catching up to this, which is also quite sad, but there's definitely more is more is more. I notice more over here. Like I've got to say, when I go back to the UK, things slow down for me. And it's, you know, I still would say like I'm around really ambitious people and things like that, but that just feels like a bit more balance. Whereas over here,

It's just so interesting having the perspective of working in both. So that's, there's lots to unpack there. So this enoughness piece, I feel like I had to learn the hard way because everything you're describing, I was. I was this person that was on this magic carpet ride of more without even realizing it.

In my head, I just wanted to be able to like hit my full potential and I knew I was capable of more so I wanted to do more. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that if it's coming from the right place and it's not there because you're externalizing your worth, your happiness, your fulfillment, your value, all of that. And I think that's the piece that we need to look at. So...

I think enoughness looks very, very different for every single person. Like if you really tap in, it's just what does a really happy life look like to me? And for every single person, it's going to be different depending on what life stage you're at, what your aspirations are. It's not like what's my highest vision of all the things I want to have and achieve, but what does a happy life look like? And that's what I ask myself all the time.

And there's very much like a baseline of stuff. And I will also say I had this massive download in an ayahuasca journey that I did that gave me a lot of perspective early on. But I had such a big download of what matters to me is the people in my life. And it's, you know, it's not about the big fancy house. It's the people in my life, my happiness, my fulfillment, how...

God, I feel in my body, in my mind, like being at home with myself, all of that stuff. And my ambition is something that's fun. And it's a place that I can play out my creativity. It's a place that I can push my edges. It's,

It's fun, but it's not everything. And that was just a big distinction for me. So I feel like I got really clear on what was super important to me. And I know for me, I just won't do anything that's going to put my marriage in jeopardy. That's going to put my relationship with my baby in jeopardy.

That's going to damage relationships with my close friends and family. That's really, really important to me. And of course, there's, you know, having a roof over your head and food and like the basics. But I luckily, you know, don't have to worry about that part now.

But I would never do anything that's going to put that in jeopardy. And so even Stephen and I were sitting down this week planning what our summer looks like and putting in vacations and stuff like that. And I was looking at it just thinking like, oh, that would be an epic time for launch. I could totally see what we could do then. You know, being in Europe is such great content. What are we... And...

I remember I just caught myself and thought, yeah, but this summer is about me and my husband. It's not about the business. It's not about the goals. It's not about any of that. So I bring myself back to what's important. And yes, I have this vision of, you know, being in these cute European cafes and writing and being creative and doing all that stuff. But it's for fun. And I'm not going to jeopardize what's important to me. So I think just knowing that I'm curious how you think about it as well. I think you probably agree.

when we've talked have had a similar perspective but it's so easy to miss what we call the basics which actually is like what life is all about in my opinion so easy to miss that in search for moreness and fanciness and like I'm going to be liked from more people if I have a much fancier house so I'm going to be so much happier if I have those extra bedrooms and you know coming from someone that could have had that or could still have that

it's interesting like I'm I remember before I had a lot of money walking into a store and like seeing a handbag that I couldn't afford and thinking once I could buy that handbag I would feel so happy and it would be like I'd carry it everywhere and it would just change the way I feel walking into a store now knowing I could afford any handbag I'm like cool I like to know I can afford it that feels good enough I don't actually want the handbag and so it's just interesting having that perspective and I share it not to be like oh I have all this money but I share it to say like

I have gotten to a certain place. I feel like I've gotten a certain perspective that I really want to share. Because if you are chasing something like money, something very external, thinking that it's going to change everything for you, I just want to say it probably isn't. There's a certain level of money that will change everything. And I heard it's like, you know, you need a household income between 200 and 250k to live super comfortably in the U.S.,

Yeah. The studies used to say, you know, if you're in more than 70,000 a year, it doesn't change. In the US, those are the numbers I'm hearing. And I honestly agree. Yeah. And I feel like...

As you're talking, I'm like, there's this thing called the gift card effect. I mean, that's what I'm calling it. It probably has an actual psychological name, but it's like, okay, if I go into a store and I go to target and I, my normal target checkout is like 200 bucks. I don't know how I have kids. Like every time I go to freaking target, I spend $200. Like it's just, it's easy to do.

But if I go into target with a $200 gift card, I am paralyzed. Like I, I don't feel like buying anything, you know, like I, I'm, I, I so much more discerning about how I spend the money because now I have the money and it's not like it's, it's, it's tangible to me. And I'm like, Oh, now I'm really going to consider this money and what I want to exchange this gift card for. And it's so it's,

I think this is common, but it's a really interesting phenomenon where I'm like, okay, do I really want any of these things? If I'm going in and I'm not paying attention, then I throw a bunch of stuff in the cart. When I have a gift card, I'm really conscious of value. And I feel like that's how I've evolved in this what's enough realm for me where

I have a big house. This is my dream home. And I like for, you know, I'm 41, like for since I have been an adult, I have dreamed about living in literally the exact house I have now. But beyond this,

I don't want for anything. Like we had dinner the other night with an investor in RT's business who flew in on a private jet who's worth hundreds of millions of dollars at least. I didn't ask. Flew in on his private jet, was telling us all about his life and his jet and every, you know, very humble, lovely man. And I was like,

I, I don't like, I don't want a private jet. Like that just doesn't, I mean, it's fun to talk about, but I'm like, that's not one of my goals. Like, I, I just don't relate to that. Like, and I, I don't need a fancy car and you know, and so I'm like, I have this beautiful home and there's nothing else that really feels comfortable.

like the next big aspirational thing. I'm like, oh, wow, this is what enoughness feels like. Like I have a very comfortable amount of income. And aside from having some debt that I'd love to pay off, you know, that would free up my mindset around money some more. But ultimately, it's like I'm not willing to sacrifice my health, my time with my kids, my time with my partner, myself, like my own life.

personal mental health to work harder at this point. You know, like I, I want to do more and I want to like grow what we're already talking about doing, but I don't, I don't feel this need to like go add capacity and do a lot more stuff because there's, I'm not in a season of like, I have to work 80 hours to achieve this goal. Like there's nothing else that I really want. And I think that, you know, I'm privileged to have gotten here and it's been 20 years of working to get here.

But I'm finally at that point of like, oh, wow, like now that I have the money, what would I want to spend it on? You know, and I find myself in that gift card phenomenon feeling a lot where I'm like, I could buy that. Like I could go on that vacation. I could do whatever, but I don't I don't want it, you know, and I'm like, this is so interesting things I used to pine for. I no longer want because now I can actually afford them. And so I do think this is a mindset thing that's common. And I think it's something that

It's hard to feel until you get there. It's kind of like motherhood. It's like until you are one, it's hard to describe it. But I think it's an important reminder that your...

And if you're really self-aware, you can choose these things in the beginning of the business so that you never hit the burnout. You never over exceed your capacity. You never get to a point where you fall out of love with what you're doing in your business because you started doing it because you loved it and now you're only doing it to make money. And I think...

I have landed there so many times in business. I started it because I loved it and I stopped it and I ended up hating it. You know, I ended up only doing it because we needed the money and it caused so many problems. And now I'm like, I'd never want to be there again. And one of the solves for that is really truly being honest with myself about what I want to spend money on and how much money that takes and then not taking on a bunch of new things just to have more money. Um,

And that's a practice like that is an ever evolving, as you know, because we have a million ideas, you know, we're always like, we could do these ideas and is this an idea we want to do because it's, we want to bring these things to our customers or to new customers, or is this just a way of, of like,

getting in more top line revenue. And if that's all, if that's all it really is, then like, it's not a right now thing. So yeah, this is, this is very alive for me because it's a newer experience for me to feel like I have the big things I've always wanted now. And I get to just enjoy the peace and really go back within and be like, man, it's edgy to feel peaceful in my day-to-day life and not feel like I need to keep striving for things.

And that is a new level of personal development where I don't need the mindset of how to go get more. I need the mindset of how to stay here and be happy. Yeah. How to steward what you have. Yes. Yes. I love that. And I think it's important to share this too, because it's the perspective that I wish I had at the beginning of my journey. Like there was so many things that I spent money on that, like,

I'm like, oh my God, why didn't I just keep that and save it? And, oh, why did I say yes to this? Like there were so many of those decisions throughout the way that I kind of wish I had someone else to listen to, to be like, oh, they got there and this is how they felt. Okay, maybe I shouldn't be chasing that. Maybe I'm chasing the wrong thing. That perspective earlier on, I think would have been really powerful, but

So I love that. And then, yeah, your mindset moves to like, how do I steward what I have? And most people listening to this, they have so much that is of value to them that is important. And it can be really easy to forget that when you haven't hit some of these external goals you might be thinking about. So it's always, yeah, it's always an interesting conversation. And I always think like whenever I'm around people that are much further ahead than me and they give me perspective, I always feel like, oh,

That is powerful. And I know that's probably just saved me 10 years of headache and heartache. So I love that. And I love being able to have conversations like that here and bring in people that maybe have been a little bit further ahead and like have that perspective. I just think is very, very powerful. And yeah, not neglecting your health and yourself. I also just, you know, when we're talking and wrapping this up about mindset, every entrepreneur should have,

I really think we should have this commitment to always be doing the work so we can honor what's true for us. Because when we talk about perspective and like the advice we wish we had, I got into some situations that I would never have gotten into had I valued myself and had the confidence to speak up, to be able to see my worth, to be able to have quote unquote,

uncomfortable conversations. And I really wish I had spent the time in the beginning working on those skills as well as the marketing skills, as well as those things. I really wish I'd worked on myself because I could have avoided a lot of pain doing that as well. So that also is just something I want to say to every entrepreneur at every stage of your journey, even if you've been in business a really long time, but you feel like you haven't done that work and it shows up in negotiation,

decision-making, partnerships, whatever it is, invest in that. Like that is some time and money well spent. Trust me. I wish I'd known that earlier. Well, and don't you think that maybe the most fundamental, most important mindset of an entrepreneur is you have to be okay with discomfort. You have to be

willing to be uncomfortable and you have to know what discomfort does to your body. You have to be able to feel uncomfortable and stay true to yourself. And I think that's what I've learned from the most successful entrepreneurial people I know is all of their stories of like the big moments in their lives was when something really uncomfortable happened in their life or their business. And

they didn't run and they didn't make an excuse and they didn't put their head in the sand. Like they, they made hard choices and they learned from mistakes and they maybe had to go through something that was terrible or hard, but they, like you said, it's like getting up and being kicked out of class. Like they will never make that mistake again. And, um, and I just think like, if there's one part of your mindset you want to work on as an entrepreneur, it's that it's learning what

Your tolerance for discomfort is how you manage it in your nervous system, how you manage it in your personality, how you manage it in your team and your business, how you manage it in your personal life.

and getting better at that. I think that's how from there is the downward effect of everything else we talked about. Yeah. But you know, what's really interesting. I remember being really okay with discomfort in my business when it maybe came to uncertainty, when it came to putting myself out there, when it came to that kind of discomfort, I was fine with it. I'm like, I know this is going to get me results. I'm fine with it.

I was really afraid of discomfort in my emotions, discomfort with letting people down or how I perceived it, making other people feel uncomfortable through an uncomfortable conversation. Like I could be so comfortable in the things I could control and then I would avoid the uncomfortable conversations. I would avoid...

you know, speaking up for myself and my worth just in case it would make someone else uncomfortable. Maybe because I didn't see my own worth and I thought maybe that it would not, you know, there's lots of things, but I was fine with that other discomfort, but I hadn't done the work to be able to be uncomfortable in myself and in conversations with others.

And I think a lot of entrepreneurs will relate to that because for me, my default was achievement. My default was doing hard things. My default was I'll work the longest hours. I'll put the most time in. I'll learn the mastery. That was my default. But my default was then I'm also going to avoid the really hard emotional stuff or I'm going to avoid having to go to those places within myself. That was work that I also should have done.

Like the external stuff's important, but so is the internal. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the other piece of maybe that's the even deeper layer of all of this is like, and maybe you agree with this. I don't know if I agree with this, but I'm going to say it. I think a lot of the most successful, maybe not the most well-known, but the actual most successful entrepreneurial people who have success over and over and over as entrepreneurs and who are actually like healthy, happy humans are

They have done an immense amount of inner work and they can, they have a very high tolerance for exactly what you just described. The internal discomfort of what it is to be an entrepreneur and to have so much uncertainty and to have to have risk tolerance and to be

in uncomfortable situations that you can't control. And, and also the positive side of entrepreneurship. I also think one of the things we haven't talked a lot about is like entrepreneurship can also be immensely fulfilling, immensely rewarding physically, um, financially and recognition wise. Like a lot of people, especially these days, like a lot of entrepreneurship is getting massive recognition in the, in the form of a following or virality or financial rewards. And I think

You also have to have immense inner, you know, this, this very well honed inner world in order to hold that capacity to the positive side of all of it, not just the hard stuff.

And I think when I meet people who, like this person I met the other night, who's this investor in RT's business, who I was just in awe of, you know, and I'm like, man, he's had as many businesses fail as he has succeed and has now has, you know, hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars. And it was like...

every single thing has taught him a lesson about how to hold capacity, how to hold energy, no matter if it's good or bad. Right. And I was like, damn, that's the differentiator of massive entrepreneurial success is like, you can hold the energy no matter what is happening and you can stay in it and you can maintain your inner alignment. And I think that's ultimately what we're getting at with like everything we've talked about today. And I would say you and I,

we are aware of that, but we're works in progress. You know, like this is, this is the work that we're currently in internally. And we talk about you and I a lot of like, okay, how do we just hold energy for this happening and stay as neutral as possible? That's really hard. Yeah. I love that. I mean, mic drop. I think we can call a lot of podcasts, you know, the inner work baby. That's what it always comes back to. Yeah.

And we got to do the inner work for it to show up in the outer. I'm here for it. Okay. If you love this episode, please leave us a review. It would mean the absolute world. Please share on social media and tell your friends. We are pouring so much into the podcast and we would just love, love, love your support. And also in your review, let us know what kind of topics you love when we cover because we read them every single week and we use that to build up what kind of episodes and titles we're going to do. So I'll see you next week.

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