363. Snapping Back At The Toxicity, Build The Business YOU Want + Andrew Huberman’s Newest Venture
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We've built a business that's repeatable, that's predictable, that is more profitable than it ever has been with a culture that is happier, healthier, friendlier than it ever has been. And so when I see people posting about me, it makes me think, wow, I just wish they could see that there is a different way of doing things. Your business can be this beautiful expression of your heart and your creativity, and it can make a lot of money. It can employ people, can change people's lives and absolutely everything.

We want it to do that, but we never want it to take you away from who you really are. I'm going to put this fire into helping more women live this kind of life. Like that's, that's what I'm going to let it do. So we're just keeping it real. We're just being very honest with you. Welcome back to the Boss Babe podcast.

All right. So diving in, Lindsay and I were just having our normal chat over the weekend about business models and different ways that people are running their businesses. And I'd sent pictures saying that Stephen had gotten me into all of Huberman's new supplement line. I don't know anything about it. I'm just putting it there.

but I love supplements. I love testing new things. What's his strategy? So I love a business model conversation. Yeah, I'm fascinated by this. And you know me and Andrew Huberman. I am a secret admirer, not so secret admirer. Yeah, so here's what I've learned about momentous supplements. And the reason I studied this was because one, I'm a Rob Dyrdek fan and I love like the machine mindset of Rob Dyrdek. If you've never listened to his stuff, it's really, really good.

And he was involved in the founding of Momentous. But because Andrew Huberman has a really successful podcast, we have a really successful podcast. And of course, I'm always trying to learn things to help our podcast be even more successful. And so I was like, this is interesting. Huberman's talking about this company all the time as he does. You know, he only does ads for a few businesses on every one of his episodes. So I was like, I'm going to go look at these companies and see how he's affiliated with them. So the story of Momentous is it was founded by this guy.

guy a couple like in 2016, 2017, kind of at the beginning of the wave of personal performance and tailored supplementation that was that you could kind of self prescribe versus getting from a doctor. And of course, the beginning of Instagram really picking up and stuff. So the founder came to Rob Dyrdek and Rob Dyrdek invested and really helped him. He changed the name to Momentous. They really perfected the branding all around human performance and like doing something momentous, which is so brilliant.

And I think Rob has actually exited at this point because then Momentous was acquired by a VC company in, I think, 2021. And that's when it really spiked up. But I remember hearing Rob on one of his podcasts not that long ago talk about how

Momentous was on track to be, I don't know, maybe a $100 million company, which is nothing to shake a tree at or whatever the saying is. That's not it, but it's like nothing bad. A tree would be quite hard to shake at. I think it's nothing to shake at. You're like, oh, $100 million. Oh, yeah, stick at. Oh, definitely not bad, but they're on track to do way, way, way more than that because they figured out partnering with Huberman. The whole conversation Rob was having was basically like,

So we went to Andrew Huberman and I'm, I don't know that obviously I wasn't in these conversations. This is my recollection. We went to Andrew Huberman and basically said, we'll give you a part of the company for you, you know, to, for you to align with it and leverage your podcast. And it was this whole case study in influencer marketing at scale, like Andrew Huberman podcast scale, where, you know, he probably has, and you and I have talked about this, like if you're going to align, if you have a big audience and you're going to align yourself with a brand,

there's probably a line of 100 more brands right behind them that would love to have you as their partner. And so you have to really be discerning and deciding

one, like, is this truly, truly aligned with me and my audience? And two, is this the best deal I could get? You know, because even if it sounds like a great deal, there may be other companies, in this case, supplement companies, there's a dime a dozen, right? Huberman probably had a hundred companies that would love to partner with him. And so without, like Rob couldn't share the details, obviously, of what they decided on, but he said just to be, he's like, without saying it, like we 10Xed what it would have been if we'd

tried to do DTC, like direct to consumer marketing. We've 10X that having Huberman on board and the investment we made in like giving him a chunk of the company has far paid for itself. So I just thought it was really interesting because it's this new model of

marketing and influence where an expertise like someone like Huberman is not just an influencer like he's truly an expert and what the content of his podcast is implicitly subliminally selling you on the product right because because he's talking about optimization you're like well should I need supplements to optimize

So, I thought it was really interesting from a business model standpoint and, you know, I nerd out on this stuff because I'm like, hey, anybody who's, it's not just for us as Boss Babe, it's like anybody who's selling time on like advertising on their social media, on their podcast, in their email, you have to think about like,

yeah, I could get an affiliate fee, but what if I took an ownership interest in this company? Or if this isn't an absolute hell yes fit, there's probably 10 other companies like this that I could go say, hey, I tried to deal here, but I want these kind of terms. So I love it as a study and

Obviously, Andrew Huberman, as a study in podcasting, is super interesting. But when you look at all the brands he advertises, he's invested in most of them. And I think Rogan is probably similar. People that have these big platforms have started to be kind of mixing their own expertise with products that they have an interest in selling to you. And that's a whole other little nuance that we could talk more about is the ethics of that and the question of, well, if they're invested in the company,

Do they have ulterior motives? But then you mix that with like authority and science and stuff. So I don't know. I just love these business case studies. And I always think when you hear a top podcaster talk about one product consistently and you go and learn about that product, you can always learn something to apply to your business.

That's so interesting. That makes me think a lot about the brands that we promote. And I just think, yeah, I would love to promote less brands, but actually have ownership. And like, you know, the ones we truly believe in,

But also I do think from an ethics standpoint, I mean, I've listened, I'm not like a hardcore Huberman fan like you are. I've listened to quite a few episodes though. And a lot of the episodes where he's sharing his favorite stack of supplements, I've heard him share them without necessarily mentioning Momentous, but they do sell those supplements. So it feels really ethical and an integrity that

you know, they actually sell the products that there's research behind and he actually believes in. And I feel like, I feel like he would be really ethical about it because he cares about his brand. Totally. And I feel like that's, that's all of us really in the space of like, we would, I mean, there's so many brands we've turned down to promote because we're like, if we promote that, our audience is literally going to be like, you don't believe in this. Like you wouldn't use this. Why would you promote it? That's the thing. Would you actually use it? And I think, you know, I say this like a broken record on our podcast, like

The consumer is so savvy. They are so savvy. And so they know it one, they can make the dots. Like he doesn't have to say, go buy momentous supplements. Cause when he says I use X, Y, and Z supplements, and then there's an admin role or the beginning of momentous, your brain already was going to connect those dots. And again,

Um, I think it is super ethical because you, when you're listening, you're like, I know this guy uses these and I want, I like, I, I want someone who I trust and he's developed so much trust with the quality of his content where you're like, I really do trust him. I just want the shortcut. Like, I just want to know what he says to take. And I want to buy it from the place I know he trusts. And I think that's really the critical discerning thing as the customer is,

when you're following someone with influence, like you really have to listen or feel for the authenticity. Like, do I know that they would use this product and have they developed a trust factor with me? And that's why, um,

I think influence is so interesting when you run businesses like all of us, you know, it's like one meta, like using your own influence authentically is such an asset in your business. And if you have the opportunity to be an affiliate for products, like really thinking through, is this authentic to me? Like, would I really use this product? And two, knowing that your audience also thinks that way, just being so like, so in integrity and, um,

and connecting dots for your audience around these are products that solve the problem I'm trying to help you solve. And I've vetted their quality and I believe in them. I use them. So I recommend them. Yeah. I mean, I think you can really tell when some people don't understand how smart their audience are. Like when some people underestimate how smart their audience are, I think it's very obvious.

Oh, a thousand percent. I mean, you know, this is like nothing gets me more fired up on freaking social media than this. I'm like, do you think I'm an idiot? Oh, my God. Yeah. Don't get me started. I know it's not the topic of today's show, but I think this is something that all of us deserve more credit for as consumers in 2024 for all kinds of brands, not just like online marketing and and coaching and the stuff that like we talk about.

uh, or, or sell inside of Boss Bay, but like direct to consumer e-comm like health and beauty things for our kids. I mean, geez, the stuff that I get tried, you know, tried to sell to me, tried, yeah. People trying to sell to me for my kids. And I'm like, what? You know? Yeah. Really?

I do think from a marketing standpoint, it's such an important lesson these days to understand your customer is so smart and they have so much choice and they are constantly exposed to a million competitors to you. So how is that helping you be better and more in integrity, more authentic? And like what we're going to talk about today, like more focused on one thing and doing one thing well and like really knowing how to run your business in the way that

You want to do it so that you're not shiny objecting because that confuses your customer too. And that is so apparent to consumers when you're jumping around constantly. This is how I spend my weekend. How do you spend your weekend? I mean, very similar.

No, I was so excited for you to like tell me about that. Cause I, I mean, I, over the weekend, I did a massive new haul in Sephora for skincare stuff. And then I went to Alive and Well, which is, I mean, you've been like the health place in Austin, did a huge supplement overhaul, um,

It felt so good. I was like, okay, I'm back on my routines. I've got all my product. Like, because when I got pregnant with Noemi, I stopped using any product. I literally would use tallow on my face. Like that was it. Like I just went so back to basics and that's what just felt really, really good for me. And with nursing for so long, that's all I've stuck to. And I'm like, you know, I think my face would love a bit more support than tallow. It's been great. I've never had a breakout literally since I was pregnant.

or even when I was pregnant, so tallow was great, but I'm like, you know, would love to dig into that vitamin C and like some really good stuff. And then...

supplement wise again I just stripped it back to basics when I was nursing and I also feel like when you're pregnant and nursing your body is very healthy so your body like it doesn't I felt like I didn't need tons of stuff like my body felt really really healthy but now that I'm really at the end of toward the end of my nursing journey I'm going to be um finished soon I'm like yeah I definitely could do with some support so I'm just like optimizing from every angle I'm doing peptides

I'm like in with my functional medicine doctor doing all the blood, but like, I'm just going back into it before getting pregnant again to just like fully to have some time where I just feel at my best, which is not right now. I've been up for a week straight pretty much with Noemi, but generally. Yeah, you are in your no sleep era right now.

the teething, teething and molars and spring cold. I thought it was teething. I thought her molars were coming in because the doctor had said they were coming in soon. But I actually think we took her to the doctors this morning and it's some kind of viral thing.

So that's what it's been. But she doesn't, she hasn't been sleeping. She hasn't been eating anything. She's just been crying. I mean, we're just in it and Stephen's away for a week. But honestly, in all of that, I still feel good. But what I do feel is just again, coming back to, I'm just grateful for the business that we've built because we're

I know exactly, like we were talking about on a meeting earlier, I know exactly what my needle mover is right now. And there's no guilt associated with doing anything beyond the needle mover. It's like, this is the way that I know my time is best spent for the company. And I think, you know, just based on our meeting, a lot of people in the business are feeling this way with their kids. It feels like sickness is just a thing right now. And it's really nice to be in a company where you can just be really honest about what's going on

and everyone to be chill about it like you guys might not fire on all cylinders this week and we're always the first to say take the time that you need don't feel like you have to be at every single meeting don't feel like you have to you know be working late at night just because you had to take a couple hours off to go to the doctors like no this is why we have a business like this is that we can actually prioritize our priorities

that's what's really important so it's times like this like I actually feel I feel good I feel super grateful and um you know it's just moments like this that it just reminds me how grateful I am for the business that I've built because a couple years ago a few years ago this wouldn't have been the reality I remember Noemi's first flu she was so young you know it wasn't this reality in the company and it was I was still expected to be firing and of course my own expectations like I am I was

founder of that company so it's like my own expectations but it just the culture was different and it was like oh well you know having to work all the things whereas this time it's not working overtime it's not it's just picking the thing that you know you can't get done and is supportive and taking the time that you need so yeah feeling good still yeah I feel like it's um even for the entrepreneur I think it's almost harder to feel like you have that freedom because you

it's so easy to talk yourself into this myth of like, I have to do it all. And if I miss two hours in the middle of the day to go to a doctor's appointment, I have to make that two hours up later tonight, you know? And that's what we were talking about earlier on the team is you need to take a couple hours off in the middle of the day to go take you or yourself or your child to the doctor. Like there's no expectation. And frankly, like, please do not come back online from eight to 10 PM, like go to sleep, get rest. Cause you're going to still feel like crap tomorrow if you haven't

taken care of yourself. And so that, but it struck me because I'm so guilty of that pattern of thinking of like any hour I miss in the business, any hour of miss of work, I have to make up or I'm going to be that far behind. And it really is building the business and changing your mindset to be no, like I I've built in this freedom. I've built in this tolerance in the time of how my day flows that if I need to step out for two hours,

the, the environment is dynamic enough around me that it can adapt to, to my needs. And that's what we're all after. I mean, to me, like that's freedom that we talk about is, Hey, like emergency came up or I need to run to the doctor or I'm not feeling well today. I can step out and I don't need to feel like I've got to make up those two hours tomorrow. Yeah. That's why I'm, I want to get us back down to a four day work week. We obviously did that really successfully last year.

I want to execute on that ASAP because I think that's such a great way for people to see that it's not about the hours you put in and it's just really, are you focused on the right things?

And with a four day work week, you know, I don't believe that you should work like make your hours longer, keep the days the same, but just chop a day off and see how you are able to still be successful and see how you actually still feel like you're getting done what you need to get done. But you've got that time for yourself, especially when you've got kids to like,

you know if you're just if you're working all week long and then you're uh with your kids all weekend it can be kind of those moments where you're like where do I get time for myself and I think we're in a really privileged position in a business like this to even be able to offer something like that and I again what you say it's so intentional about the way that you approach your business and the mindset you have in your business and we were talking this morning um

It's so interesting since we, and I could totally get riled up on this, but since we started sharing about building freedom-based businesses, we changed our entire business. We rewrote a playbook. And I think we've really coined the term freedom-based business. I'm seeing people talk about it now, but when we started this, we weren't.

And it's kind of interesting to see people shitting on us without being willing to call our names out, which I'm always like, this is giving mean girl energy. Can you just say my name? Like, I can clearly see it. But when they're kind of, one of them I seen today was, you know, a freedom-based business is bullshit. You know, it takes hard work to build a business. And, you know, it's a toxic culture when people say that it doesn't take hard work to build the business.

And I literally see a post like that. And I'm like, this is why I'm doing what I'm doing. This is exactly why I am doing what I'm doing. Because you're out there telling people it is toxic to build their business in a way that feels good. I think that in itself is toxic. And I can totally get, I mean, like I said, I can get riled up on this. But it's so interesting to me how

Some people think that way because building a freedom-based business is not the absence of hard work. It's the absence of being a busy idiot. It's the absence of throwing so many different things at the wall. It's smart work. We work. We talk about this all the time. We work. We work.

but we're very smart with our work. We know exactly what to spend time on. We stick to our needle movers. We get rid of things that are fluff that aren't important. We're very good at delegating and keeping lots of things off other people's plates so that they can focus. And we've built a business that's repeatable, that's predictable, that is more profitable than it ever has been with a culture that is happier, healthier, friendlier than it ever has been.

And so when I see people posting about me with stuff, I'm just like, I just, it's just so interesting to me. It really, it makes me think, wow, I just wish they could see that there is a different way of doing things. And I know from, you know, knowing these people that they think this way because they have that addiction to constantly moving the goalposts. I've seen what it's like to do business with people whom,

You agree on a set goal and you reach that goal and the goal is still not good enough. It needs to be bigger and better next time. And listen, I'm all for growing. I'm all for hitting our goals, but let's be clear on why we're doing it.

I, if we're just setting a goal because it's bigger than the last and it's some egoic play, then I'm not fully on board with that because I know what my priorities are. If we're setting a goal for a reason I can get behind, then it's different. I love to grow as an individual, as an entrepreneur. I love that, but I'm not going to grow at all costs. I know what's really important to me and that is to enjoy my life. It's to be healthy. It's to choose how I spend my time. It's to spend time with my family, my friends.

And so I believe that you can scale with a lot of intentionally. And quite frankly, sometimes that might mean that you're scaling slower, but who cares? What's this finish line that we're all racing towards? Like, are we going to get to this finish line? And then just like, what? Then what? Start another business? Make another goal? Like, my brain just doesn't work that way. And yeah, sorry, I'm getting riled up because I seen that this morning. I was just like, firstly, just fucking name me. Like, let's talk about it. But secondly...

Let's also be open to having a conversation and not saying something's toxic just because you don't understand it. That's where my head goes to is like, let's just have a conversation about it. You guys know I absolutely love Masterclass because it makes staying on my growth edge so easy and accessible. I've been using Masterclass for years and constantly going back because there are so many incredible classes to choose from.

I'm currently going through Esther Perel's class on relational intelligence and leading teams really effectively. Being able to sit down, press play, and learn from such amazing instructors, anytime that's convenient for me has been a game changer. I was really intrigued by Esther's class because I am a big believer that the quality of your life is equal to the quality of your relationships. And in business, being able to communicate,

is everything. She dives deep into things like developing self-awareness and empathy, establishing boundaries, understanding power dynamics, which was fascinating, and so much more. So right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership at masterclass.com slash bossy.

bossbabe. That's 15% off at masterclass.com slash bossbabe, masterclass.com slash bossbabe. You may have heard that I recently co-founded a brand new company, Glossy, which is a skin routine you can drink. And I wanted to tell you a little bit more about it. It is incredible. It's this powdered supplement that you drink at least once a day. I'm personally a morning and afternoon kind of person. And it is so good for your skin and your gut.

One of the ingredients that I want to call out is probiotic D-111. So it helps maintain a healthy gut microbiome. It supports digestion and skin barrier function. It's also really good for helping to reduce any discomfort in your stomach and bloating. I swear by Glossy. That's just one of the key ingredients. We also have vitamin C, magnesium, hyaluronic acid, coconut water powder, sea salt, zinc,

It really comes from all angles to support you inside out. I love it in a morning. I drop in a hydrogen tablet just to really boost things. And then in the afternoon, I normally add some B vitamins. It makes me feel absolutely amazing. And I really feel the difference in my gut specifically.

I'm more regular I'm less bloated I just really feel a difference so if you're interested go to getglossy.com that's g-l-o-c-i.com and use the code boss babe and you'll get a huge discount off your order yeah

Well, and I think this is, I mean, I'm, yes, I was riled up behind the scenes with you too, because as we were just talking about like social media, the consumer is so savvy. So like anytime you're posting anything on social media, just like PSA, most people can figure out what you mean and who you're talking about. So like, you know, it's not cute to talk shit on people. It's not. And it doesn't, you know, if you have to talk shit on other people and their businesses, it's,

And their philosophies to sell your own products or services, that is not an effective marketing strategy. And I mean, everyone listening to this podcast knows it, like they're not doing it, but it's just not effective. Find another way. Right. Yeah. So there's that aspect of it that like we don't need to harp on because you guys know, like just don't do that. The second thing is the myth of the freedom-based business. And like, I think...

This is so triggering to people because when we say freedom, most people don't feel free and we know this like we talk about this all the time. Most people don't feel free in their business. They feel very chained to their business or they feel very stressed out by their business or they feel like their business is unpredictable. And when we talk about nervous system regulation, which you and I nerd out on constantly, we

unpredictability is the worst thing for your nervous system. That is like constant fight or flight. Because if you think about 500 years ago, what was unpredictable? Nature. You didn't know if when you were walking through the forest, something was going to jump out and get you. You didn't know where your next meal was coming from. You didn't know if that storm was going to cause damage. We didn't have the predictability in our lives that we now have in our subsistence. And so our

Our nervous systems constantly lived in like fight or flight because we had to survive. And now we live in 2024 and we don't have to worry so much about like predators and weather so much. But our businesses have taken the place of in our in a lot of our nervous system wiring where we're wired for chaos from a chaotic childhood or messed up money mindset or all of the above.

We're wired for chaos, so we crave chaos. We build businesses that are built around chaos, and then we cannot figure out how to make things feel predictable. And with lack of predictability means we don't have freedom because we have to constantly be vigilant in the business. Otherwise, we can't pay our bills. We lose our team. Our status goes down, like all these intrinsic and extrinsic things that we measure ourselves by, right? And so I think the myth of all of this is

That freedom is this thing that you create and it's the final end game of all of this work when really the way we talk about it is freedom is like mostly a nervous system, you know, attunement setting where you're like, no, I want to get to a point where no matter what's going on in my business, I have a sense of freedom because I know what I can control and what I can't.

And all these myths about it being like easy and that it didn't take work or that it doesn't take work. It's like so wrong. And even though we have a pretty freedom-based business, we have a team and we all work hard and

you know, I do think that's the piece of it that feels to me like sitting in the COO seat. I'm like, we fucking work hard. We work hard and we do it in a way where exactly what you just said, like even today, we took a couple of things off of the calendar for 2024, like big things. We took them totally off because they were no longer aligned. Um, we have a couple of team members who need some time off because they're, you know, having sick kids and all that. It's like, okay, we'll delegate. We have other people that can step in. Um,

Goals like we're setting goals but we're also behind the scenes, making those goals feel very doable and like not stressful so that we aren't constantly having to to like be a slave to goals that have no external meaning other than money right like. So we're living out what we're saying what we're teaching and to me.

It feels free because it's like, okay, do you or I feel like, I mean, I'm speaking for myself. I think I'm speaking for you. I don't feel like my inner freedom is wrecked by boss, like at all. I don't feel like we've over-promised anything. I don't feel like we're, we've made unrealistic goals and I don't feel like there's a culture of, of, of lack of freedom. And I think that that all starts with how we attune our nervous systems to the business and that the business is built to, to,

be very malleable to how we all need to show up in it, not vice versa. Like the business is not driving how we feel. And I think that's the piece that is so hard to see from the outside. So when we're teaching a freedom-based business model, we're teaching you inner freedom, which is created by systems and templates and processes and sales engines and all these tactics that we're teaching you.

Um, it is hard work. It's fucking hard work, but once it's set up and you know how to keep it running, it, it, it does free you. And so, yeah, I'm also on a rant now, but I, I just feel like this is, that's what we're going to talk about today is these myths because the myth of freedom, I think is why people get so triggered by it because they don't feel free. So then they want to tear it down.

Well, let's talk numbers because I love to put data where our mouths are. So we are in March right now. We have made more profit this year in 2024. No, not more. Actually, yeah, we've made, we've made, yeah, we will. When this podcast goes live, we've made more profit this

It's March this year in 2024 than we made in 2023. And guess what? In 2023, we made more profit than we made in 2022.

And what's really interesting about that is 2023 was the year that I undid so much complexity within the company. I restructured like crazy and I decided I was going to do things differently. I was going to run a different operating system. And I wanted to toy with the idea of, is it possible to run this with freedom? Is it possible to do things very, very differently now?

And it was not an easy year. I mean, we both know it was not an easy year at all, but we ended on higher profit than the year prior with less launches, less stress, less team, all of that stuff. This year we're in March, higher profit than last year.

let's call a spade a spade. We do not even need to work anymore for the remaining time of this year. If we didn't want to, our entire team is paid for and we pay very good salaries. We very much take care of our team. Very, very good salaries, way, way, way above industry standard. We pay our team really well. Our team is fully taken care of for the rest of the year.

We are taken care of for the rest of the year. Our customers are taken care of for the rest of the year. That's freedom because we have built a system in the business that is predictable. It's profitable. It's repeatable. And so when we were taking launches off the calendar, we took them off because we looked at it and we were asking ourselves, would this be fun? Do we want to do this? And it was like, absolutely.

Actually, no. Or, you know, we all decided over summer. We want to take summer. We always like to take a light summer. We like to strip our work weeks down. We like to enjoy summer. We nearly all of us have kids. And if you don't, doesn't mean you don't enjoy summer. We just like to enjoy summer. We always take time off in December.

And so we planned our year around that. And we said, let's do stuff. Yes, let's stretch ourselves. Absolutely. We're a business. Let's stretch ourselves and see what we are capable of, what's our potential as individuals and what's our potential for our business and what's our potential for our clients. So let's absolutely stretch ourselves, but let's not stress ourselves. We did the work very, very smartly to get us into this position. And so, you know, another thing that I've seen

people saying online is, you know, that I could maybe I can talk about this, because I've already built a successful business. Listen, behind the scenes, if I could show you some of this stuff, you know, the business got to a place where it wasn't so successful, and really had to be restructured with just a lot of stuff going on. But even beyond that,

I started another business completely from scratch, separate to Boss Babe and scaled it to $1.2 million in its first year without leveraging any of Boss Babe's audience, any pre-existing audience there through having one-to-one DM conversations, which is often how I recommend getting a business started and scaled in the first place.

And I did it with freedom. I did it with systems, structures, security, stability, all of that in mind. I ran this playbook to see, hey, does it work beyond already having a business set up? We've helped countless of our clients do the exact same thing. And so I think that's just really important to call out the data because yes, we do scale with a lot of intentionality and we're going to end this year on record high numbers and

And our happiness, or maybe I'll speak for myself, my happiness is not dependent on what number is on the P&L at the end of the year. I'm happy. I'm good. I'm so happy the way I live my life and the way that I spend my time and what I spend my time on. That is real peace of mind. That is real wealth. I'm healthy. That is real wealth. I am going to be happy no matter what number we end on. And

And going in with that mindset and that nervous system regulation is what has made the business more successful. So you can do this as a beginner. You can do this as an established business owner. Even if you think your business is too messy and complicated, you can. And I know I'm on my soapbox today. I just feel really passionate about this because there's so many myths out there. And it feels like, I don't know, it feels like sometimes people just...

They want to shit on you just to be, just to say like, just, I don't know. It's, it's been a very interesting journey being online and just seeing a lot of the, what happens. Like one thing that I tell a lot of my students when I'm helping them grow their following, I'm like, do you want to do this? Because it does open you up to a lot of being shit on. Cause some people just don't like to see you succeed. And that's just the truth of it. And I know we don't like to often be negative on this podcast, but I'm just, I'm just being really honest.

Some people don't like to see you succeed and it triggers them and they will talk shit on you and say things with no substance whatsoever. And that's one of the things about having a following that you really open yourself up to. And for me, it's worth it because what I'm here to do in this world is way bigger than what people say. And, um, you know, I look at that and I just feel like you can't be that content and how, how things are for you or how your business is if you're sidetracked with what other people are doing.

Yeah. So I'm like, come and join one of our programs. I'll show you how to build a freedom based business. Well, and I want to talk about that. One thing I'll say is, is, you know, the oldest marketing trick in the book is to find the, the, the angle that's working really well and just go the 180 degrees different, like sell the contrarian side, right? Like that's the oldest marketing trick in the book. So again, like we opened with like, be a savvy consumer, just know, like when you're

Anytime, it doesn't even have to do with us specifically. It's like anytime you see someone advertising something that's 180 degrees the opposite of what everyone else is saying, you can probably guess it's a tactic. And you see this in like health coaching. It's like,

you know, all these diets or all these really well-known health things that we should all be doing. And then there'll be the one person who's like, magnesium is going to kill you. And you're like, what? We should all probably be on a magnesium supplement, right? Like our diet is super deficient in magnesium and magnesium is critical to life. And then there's one person on Instagram who's like, magnesium's a death sentence. And you're like, okay. But it gets clicks and views, right? So just, you know, I'm like, okay. Also, I

everything has a contrarian view. But what I, what, what you said that I think we should dig deeper into is like we at Boss Babe, because of all the work that you've done for years, all the rebuilding we did last year, the team we now have in place, like we,

everything. We could walk away, just deliver the programs we've already sold for the rest of the year and not sell anything new and our payroll's covered, all our expenses are covered and there's still profit margin. What do you say to the person who's maybe got 4,000 followers and a $10,000 a month run rate who says, I don't have enough in savings to walk away, but I also want this feeling of not having to be so vigilant and so like,

you know, attached to the outcome of the business. So they don't necessarily have the same freedom already that we have, but they have the same tools that you're saying, like that could be leveraged to create freedom. So if you're that person, what do you say, like the three fundamental things or like where does this energy come in if you're not already at the place boss saves at?

Such a good question. So first, what I will say is this kind of strategy really isn't for a company that's venture backed and you are building towards an exit because that really is a goalpost that you are building toward.

This really is for more lifestyle entrepreneurs. And let's say that's where you're at right now. This really is for you. The first thing that I would say is we have to start with vision. It's the place that we start in the society, our entire framework. But we start with vision and not just in a way of like what's on your vision board. But we have this process where we help you get really, really clear on what is it that you want to create. And that's a really important one. How do you want to spend your time?

Because how you want to spend your time will determine what kind of business you set up, what you do and what you delegate. Because freedom is having the choice to decide where you want to spend your time. And listen, as a business owner, you also do have to do some of the stuff you don't want to do. That's just a given. But most of the time, if you know where you want to spend your time, you can build a business around that. If you tell me, hey, Natalie, I hate social media, then I'm not going to say build a business around social media. I'm going to say it.

Let's find ways that you can hit your sales goals without even needing to be on social media. Because that's a choice. We chose to build our business on social media. It's not the only way to do it. And I know a lot of really successful people who don't even have a presence on social media. So that's exactly what I mean is get really clear on how you want to spend your time. Second, get really clear on what that abundance is.

and what that freedom number is for you. Because it's going to be very, very different for everyone. And it might differ for you year after year. You might say, you know what, this year, it would feel absolutely phenomenal, so abundant to me if I made $100,000. Great, let's know what that number is so we can reverse engineer how you're going to do it. But then let's also have awareness of what that number is so that when you hit it,

and you have the time freedom that you got into this game for, you don't give away all of your time freedom because you start scaling for scaling's sake. And not a lot of people will talk about this, but let's say 100K is your number and you're like, that would feel so abundant to me and it would feel really abundant if I could make that number and work three days a week.

you know, that's like the goal. Okay, great. Well, how much are your products and services? Let's reverse engineer. How many of them do we need to sell? So this is where we talk about your one number. This is where this part comes in. I talk about your one number whenever we teach offer and funnels. And your one number is,

What's the one number that if you focus on, your sales grow? What's the one number that you know by focusing on it, you're moving the needle in your business? So let's say you...

you sell consulting packages and the way that you get clients is doing cold reach out, getting on sales calls and closing people. I'm going to say probably the one number for you is the amount of sales calls you can get booked. So you'll reverse engineer that to know how many people per day that you reach out to, whatever that is, right? Let's say you have, you're in funnel fast track and you're building a webinar funnel alongside me.

Your one number is probably going to be webinar registrants. So then we think about, okay, what one thing do we do to get that number of webinar registrants in the door? So we have you get really, really focused on what that one thing is. And what you'll probably notice based on that is there's some activities in the business that are really important for you to do. And there's some activities in the business that you realize are actually nice to haves, not needle movers. Now it is your choice of whether you do the nice to haves.

You might decide, I don't want to do the nice-to-haves in this season. I want to focus on the needle movers. I want to hit my business goals. Then with my extra time, I want to get creative and work on those nice-to-haves. That's how I want to spend my time. That's what's really important. And what I'm ultimately talking about with all of this is building a system that's repeatable.

And then once you hit your goal, you'll then have the decision. Do I want to replicate this to continue running my business in this way? Or would it feel really good to bring someone in that I could start to delegate some things out to? I could promote myself.

that I've got even more time freedom, but you keep an eye on the margins, right? Because I've also seen, let's say your number's 100K and you end up hitting that 100K, then you decide to bring in a team member that costs you 70K. All of a sudden that 100K that you wanted has turned into 30K. So is that person bringing enough value or freeing your time up enough that it's worth it for you to decrease from 100K to 30K? The conversation that we get to have that I don't think a lot of people are having

You don't always need to hire. That's not always, you know, if you're building a freedom-based business and you're building a lifestyle business, it doesn't always mean having this big team. And you might decide you're just going to bring on a certain level of support and that's what feels good. But again,

It all comes back to vision. It all comes back to knowing what number you want to hit, what's your freedom number, and how do you want to spend your time. If I was starting at the beginning and I was thinking about starting a brand new business, that's how I'd be thinking. I'd be thinking, okay, how is it that I want to spend my time? So then based on that, what business model would actually work for me? And then, okay, based on my goals,

It's probably means that I'm going to be doing these, this kind of work, and I'm going to need to put in this kind of effort and you reverse engineer it like that. But all of this can be very, very intentional versus panicking, throwing a hundred things at the wall, being on this perpetual hamster wheel. Cause you don't know what is actually going to move the needle in your business. And to hit that a hundred K, it feels like you need to be this dancing monkey, one man band, like just crazy chaos.

That's what I want to move away from. That's not a freedom-based business because you don't have internal freedom. You're probably feeling so chaotic and stressed and stretched.

And you then don't have the results to show for it. So in our training that we're, we're going to link it in the show notes of this, but training that I'm actually running this month is called from chaos to calm. So I'm literally like, let me help you just sort this out and get really clear on what your roadmap is going to be. It's going to be different for everyone, but I can share with you some of the steps and show you how it is possible. Yeah. As you're talking, I'm like, this is chaos to calm because chaos is,

To me, what creates chaos is the feeling of expecting one thing and another thing happening all the time and you not being able to control either side. Right. Cause like,

we set our expectations, things don't go to expectation, and now we don't know how to cope with lack of expectations being met. That's a recipe for chaos. That's chaos in your relationships. That's chaos in your parenting. That's chaos in your business. Chaos in the world is that, you know, like that's literally the definition. And when you, like the hamster wheel analogy of feeling like you're just constantly feeling

you have to constantly generate it fresh every month, right? Like, I think that's the feeling I remember when I was in these stages of business is every month is, is the new version of like, or is, is the new run around the hamster wheel of like, how am I going to generate the 10 K this month? You know, how am I going to generate the 10 K next month? And it wasn't because I didn't, I needed a membership product or it wasn't because I needed to put all these people on auto pays and sell things that we're going to pay out over months. It was like,

I was doing too many things or I was doing things I knew I didn't want to be doing, or I was selling my time in a way that made me have to like, basically made me have to work in the business so much. I couldn't sell the next month stuff. You know, like I would sell coaching or consulting where I was working 30, 40 hours a week, delivering coaching and consulting. And I'm like, Oh shit, when do I have time to sell next, you know, my next clients. And so, um,

That like those type of behavioral patterns, I think, represent exactly what you're talking about around. I never did the work to sit and go, what is the vision of this work? Like, how do I want my hours to run? And if I if I need only $10,000 a month net out to cover expenses in my family, what

Why am I trying to sell 25 K, you know, or why am I trying to deliver 25 K? Because that means I'm working 50 hours a week and then I'm having to like sell in the pockets of time to keep up at that run rate. Yeah. It's exactly what you're describing. And I think a lot of us have been there or are still there where, you

Now what we want is like, okay, I know I want to work less hours than this, or I know I want to sell this one thing, but I've got so many clients of this other program or product. How do I transition? And so I think that's kind of the next question I have of all this that I think is a myth is like a freedom-based business is going to be something you build overnight.

And that myth, because we've heard that a lot, too, of like, well, what do I do with all these one on one clients I have if I want to launch my webinar funnel into my course? Like, do I just cancel all my one on one clients? And so speak. Will you speak to that, too? Because I have my opinions on on that. But you've been there and you've grown through so many phases of business and and you've seen so many people go through this like.

What's the answer to this myth of in order to build a freedom-based business, you have to get rid of everything that doesn't feel like freedom right now? Yeah, I think that's a massive myth. And I don't think that's necessarily a smart business move.

One thing I will share is a friend of mine. She has a very, very similar size business to ours, incredibly successful. And she has a very different business model. She sells through webinars just like we do, but she sells things on the lower ticket. So everything she sells is like below $300.

And when I ask her about that, she says, you know, I value my freedom so much that I don't want to be on the hook for a membership. I don't want to be on the hook for a product that I have to deliver. I love to have a small team and I still want to have a massive business.

And so what's really interesting is she just had that intentionality. If she wants to have a massive business, she wants to live this really big, abundant life. She has massive goals for her and her family. And I love that. And there's nothing wrong with that. Same thing. I have massive goals. But what's really interesting is she still made the decision of, I'm still going to make massive revenue, but I'm going to do it selling lower ticket products.

So you kind of mentioned it. There's this myth that to have predictability, you have to have a membership. That's not true. You don't need to have a membership. I mean, it's not that predictable. It's also quite hard to do when you haven't got a big audience, but it also has you on the hook for something every single month. So I see why a lot of people don't want to do that because that's not freedom to them. To me, being on the hook for calls and things, everyone that that's fine to me. Like I, I like being with my community. So that feels really exciting to me. And yeah,

I also like to deliver a product on the higher scale because I like to work with people and have those touch points. So again, I'm really clear on what I, what kind of business I want to run, what my abundance number is. And I also know that I get to hit those goals in a way that feels good for me. So that's the first thing that I want to share is regardless of your business model, you can make it work.

What's really important though, is that you just focus on one thing to get that one thing working so that you can figure out the predictability of it. So if you're listening to this and you think, well, I have a one-to-one consulting practice or therapy practice or whatever. If I want freedom or predictability, I have to switch to a course. Here's what I'll say about that. And I've actually said this on another podcast before.

Just because you have an evergreen funnel running doesn't mean you no longer have to do any work. All it means is instead of you spending time on one-to-one calls with clients, you're now spending time optimizing your funnel and selling through your funnel. So it's less of...

So it's less of setting it and forgetting it. And it's more of where you spend your time has shifted. So again, it comes back to where do you want to spend your time? I tell people, listen, if you love working one-to-one with clients, let's find a way to help you hit your

time and financial goals by working one-to-one with clients. You know, we have an amazing, amazing woman inside CEO Mama who has a seven-figure business as a one-to-one consultant. And she works two or three days a week. And I think that's absolutely incredible. And she loves her business. She is so lit up by it.

And so if she was to switch to doing something like an evergreen funnel that was just running in the background, she would be changing from working one-to-one with people to working on the funnel because it's never a full set and forget it. You're always working on filling it and tweaking and all those things. She didn't want to do that. So that's what I would say to that person is you don't need to burn something down just because you think there's a better way of doing it. You don't need to burn down your course because you think you need a membership.

You just need to figure out what it is that you want to be doing, how you want to spend your time and reverse engineer from that and find the needle mover. Find what's the thing that's actually going to get you freedom then. Freedom probably is going to be hitting your financial goals month after month with ease. That's probably what freedom looks like.

And so then what does that look like? How can you build some predictability into that? And again, it comes back to that one number, knowing your one number that you can scale it up or scale it down each month, depending on your goals. I mean, the thing that just keeps coming through for me is what we already talked about around the amount of like inner growth

of nervous system regulation that this takes, because I think a lot of what you're saying makes sense when you hear it on a podcast or you, it makes sense when you see it taught in a program and then you go back into your business and it is so easy to fall back into the habit of like what I would only characterize as like a mix of scarcity and shiny object syndrome where it's like, well,

Um, in scarcity, I don't want to give up my one-on-one clients while I do this other thing because I need the money coming in from them. Um, but I need to be doing both because I need to have more money coming in, you know, and you get caught on, on this cycle of, I can't do what I want because I need more money to do what I want. And you're like, well, wait, you know, so how do we unravel this? And, uh, you know, we talk about a lot of, of that set point and knowing when enough is enough and prioritizing the priorities and, um,

and managing your nervous system. And I think a lot of it comes down to like approaching things,

I know I'm an ops person, so I'm going to say this, but it's like systems, like having systems for things, holding yourself accountable, knowing when you feel yourself starting to get riled up about something and being able to be discerning in the moment and go, is this really something I want or is this shiny object? Is this really scarcity? Like, is this really that I don't have enough money or is this scarcity? You know, am I, is this something I really want for my business or is this comparison? Um,

And I want to like, I think you're such a master of this behind the scenes and we don't talk about it a lot and you, you do lead the team so much in this way, but I think it'd be interesting for you to share like the mindset or kind of how you manage yourself in those moments. And, and I've seen you manage us like me, you know, you'd be like, I love this. And here's all the things that we need to focus on first, you know? Um,

What does that feel like in your body? Like when you get that or one, like, do you still get nervous system triggered in that way, even at the freedom and scale we're at? And how do you manage that in your body? And how would you coach someone through that? Because I think a lot of what we're talking about, a lot of these myths around freedom are rooted in external measures of an external stimulation around freedom.

more money or more following, more influence, like more, but we don't even know, we haven't started with vision. We can't even tell you what we really want. We just know we're triggered. Like we're overstimulated. Our nervous system is feeling chaotic. How do you get to calm? I love this question. So are you asking kind of how I don't get, I think there's a few things in this. Are you asking how

I'm able to prioritize, take things off our plate or how I don't get caught up on the moreness. I think how you don't get caught up on the moreness because I think the tactics of it explain themselves once you understand how you mastered your mindset. Because I think what people...

is like a hidden secret of Natalie Ellis that a lot of people don't know is you are a mindset master. You can mindset mastery your way out of a lot of different things. And I see it every day working so closely with you, but we, you know, we don't teach mindset directly as part of our curriculum. And so maybe it's not so evident to people, but I think a lot of when we get into these freedom conversations and we see what people react to externally, and we, and we, we list off this laundry list of myths about it. I think a lot of it comes down to

And it's inner regulation. It's mastering your mindset. It's understanding when enough is enough and how to be really discerning and lead yourself in your business. And I think you do that really well. So I'd love if you can share some of the insight on that.

how you have learned to do that. And then how do you guide, if you're one of our listeners, maybe they don't have a team of 12 people like we do, but maybe they need to direct themselves more, you know, or even they're one or two people.

to stay in this state of calm around decision-making or calm when saying no, calm when sticking with one offer and not chasing new things. I don't know how helpful this will be because I feel like, and I'll just, I'm gonna lay it out all on the table. I have a lot of perspective. So I grew up in a very, very, I mean, you know, I had a very, very turbulent childhood and I saw some real darkness.

And so I have a lot of perspective, right? So in my life now, and I had this, everything shifted for me in 2022 when I went through postpartum depression and anxiety, because it was a more, was one of the first moments in my life where I felt so genuinely paralyzed and

And I'd never felt paralyzed before because I was on a hamster wheel of doing, of achievement, of more, of busyness, of trying to keep everyone around me happy so I would deny my own needs to help everyone else fulfill their needs. I was selfless in all the wrong ways. And when I went through that experience, I was paralyzed. And what I mean by that was

I didn't have a lot of energy to get up, to do things, to achieve. Like, I just didn't feel like getting out of bed some days. I didn't leave the house for quite a long time. To even get me to go out on a walk was very, very challenging. Now, I share that because in that time, I had a chance to think. And it was the first time I'd allowed myself in years to think. And I...

started to think about what I really wanted out of my life and what I wanted to do and how I wanted to spend my time. I started to see things as, you know what, what if I draw a line in the sand now and I look at things with a blank slate, how would I do things differently? And I remember one day just sitting there and I looked around and I was like, I have a beautiful house. I'm healthy and

I have the most perfect child. I have a husband who I love. I have money in the bank.

what more is there to life than this? And again, I have perspective because I grew up where in a household where putting food on the table sometimes was very, very challenging. And I saw my mom not even be able to afford to eat and just feed us instead. Right. So I had that level of perspective, but when I had that realization, I had a realization that I already had everything I ever want

wanted. And so many of us don't take the time to slow down or are forced to slow down to really look at, do I already have everything that I've always wanted? Because if we think about it, if you think about, you know, Natalie at age 10, Natalie at age 15, Natalie at age 20,

I wasn't thinking about modern mansions and handbags and sports cars and all this stuff. I was thinking about being happy. I was thinking about finding my person. I was thinking about settling down and have kids.

And what's interesting is before this experience, I got invited in all the rooms, right? I've sat across from the people that I admired for years and years on end who have the fancy cars, who have the fancy mansions. And I sat across from them and I realized so many of them weren't happy because they were trying to feed this hungry ghost. Nothing ever felt good enough. Or they'd have these massive houses, but their relationship was breaking down. They had...

you know, so many things on paper, but had maybe missed that window of being able to have children and really regretted it. Or they worked so hard that they missed out on that on time with one of their family members that had recently passed. I saw it all. And that was just so much perspective. And I'm so incredibly grateful that I got to be invited into rooms like that and still get to be because I see a lot of the behind the scenes that a lot of us idolize online. And I share all of that to say that

I had to have this real moment where I looked within myself and I thought, you have everything you could possibly want. So why are you sacrificing it for the pursuit of more? If you get more, will you be happier? Or maybe the more important question to ask myself is, what if you lose all of this that you worked so hard to have in the pursuit of more? Would it really be worth it? And that's what I sat with. And yeah,

I am just very, very grateful that I got to go through that experience because it really, really did rock me. It was one of those experiences where I just got to really question and challenge everything. So it's a long-winded way of saying this was not an overnight thing.

But if we, a lot of us, you know, when you think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if you haven't got those bottom ones ticked, you know, you haven't got that security, you haven't got a roof over your head, food on the table, that's all you can focus on and think about. But as you start to move up those rungs, as you start to get into a place where you've got some savings, you've got a nest egg, then you get to start being really intentional about what it is that you want out of life. And you'll probably find that you want

a lot of those other things in life more than you want the savings in the bank or the fancy things.

you want more of the fulfilling things in life. And so, yeah, I just had that big realization. I had a level of perspective through, you know, I invested a lot in therapy and coaching and I spoke to friends that I admired, not just outwardly, but I've seen the inner workings of their life. And I truly admire their marriages, their health, their relationship with their kids. I truly admired those things. And I had relations, I had conversations with those people and,

And that's when I came to this realization and my work continuously, and it still continues to this day, is can I continue to remind myself that I am enough?

Even if I don't get invited to that event, even if I turn down that thing, even if I'm not in that room, even if my car isn't as fancy as that, even if, even if, regardless of the even ifs, am I enough on my own? And when you feel like you truly are, that's when you can

really remind people of that perspective, that's when you can turn things down. That's when you can just make those decisions that might feel hard when you don't have the perspective. So that answer your question. I know I went quite deep on it, but it's just not a simple answer for me. My peace of mind is over everything and I have it written down. I remind myself of it and I try and remind people around me of it as well, because

you know, that's the kind of impact that I want to have on people. No, that was perfect. And I wrote a ton of notes and I think perspective is one of these things that, you know, isn't, isn't as sexy, you know, like you said earlier today, like stability and, and security are, and like,

calmness is sexy like that's it's not sexy but it's sexy like that's what we all really crave is we would like our lives to feel peaceful and calm like I don't I don't often meet people are like I love chaos and I want to live an unpredictable nervous system fry all the time like people who say that are crazy stay away from them most people want things to feel good they just don't know how to make it feel good right and I so I think when you talk about perspective like

And in our case, your perspective comes in a lot as you lead our team and you say, like, you know, we all as employees, you know, we take pride in growing the business and hitting our goals and all these things. And sometimes you come in with the perspective and say, yeah.

I love this energy, but it's a no for right now. And it's like, okay, because you have perspective that we don't even have, you know? And, and so as a leader, I respect that immensely because that's the, that's like the intangible non-sexy thing. That's like, oh, she knows something we don't. And we have something to learn here, you know? And we're never going to take the business in a direction that makes you, that takes you out of the vision, right? Like, because ultimately all of us in leading our own businesses, we're

You shouldn't let someone pull you out of your vision. And that's why we always start with vision and everything we teach. And I think with perspective, the other thing I wanted to say is we all, no matter what our upbringing was or how far you are into your business or how successful you are, you can always, we all have perspective in our lives. We all can look at

What's really driving us if we get quiet and we tap in and we feel we know what the what the answer is. We all can feel in our heart or gut or wherever it is centered in your body, like what the right answer is. And we all can.

no examples in our lives of the people we want to be like and that feel good to be around and the people that we don't want to be like and they don't feel good to be around. And so I think like when you boil all this stuff down to the core, we're still talking about just basic human survival, you know, and your business is can be this beautiful expression of your heart and your creativity and it can make a lot of money. It can employ people, can change people's lives. And absolutely, we want it to do that. But we never want it to take you away from

who you really are or how you want to feel in your life. And I think that's like the ultimate freedom. And the myth is like you, that you have to self-abandon to create freedom. And it's absolutely not that. And I think that's the biggest point I wanted to pull from what you said is like the point of freedom is to be radically yourself, is to be radically living your vision every day and that it's not worth it.

If you're having to sacrifice yourself over long periods of time, obviously there's going to be periods where you have to make choices that feel like hard in the moment, you know, you wish you didn't have to do, but over time, any type of freedom is, is getting to be you. It's getting to be yourself. It's getting to live your vision. It's getting to do all of these things. And, um,

And knowing that even if I miss out on X, I'm okay. Even if I don't have this, I'm okay. And I think liberating ourselves from all these external things and all the external measures is freedom. And so how do we build businesses that are still responsive to the audience, responsive to the economy, responsive to the need of the customer, but ultimately are free

fully embodied expressions of ourselves and don't require us to self-abandon. And I think that's what your perspective has led you to as a leader and you hold us accountable to working inside of our business. And we try to bring into everything we teach that it's like, this is where it starts, this fundamental self-awareness and all of the myths that might be perpetuated about freedom-based businesses out on the internet or on social media. Yeah.

don't really matter because it all comes down to what you want to build for yourself. I love this so much. And what you said too around,

This is different for everyone. And it's also going to be different for you in every decade of your life. I think about, you know, your 20s are going to be so different to your 30s, to your 40s, to your 50s, to your 60s. You know, in every single decade, you will have a different focus. And I remember, especially in my early 20s, I just wanted to travel the world. I wasn't thinking about building up my bank account. I wasn't thinking about buying house. I wasn't thinking about that stuff. So I was kind of working the bare minimum, right?

to have the most experience that I possibly could. I want to travel the world. I did it on such a budget, but my goal was to see the world, not to do it in luxury hotels. Like I was staying in hostels. I was sleeping on people's floors. Like I was just so happy to be traveling. That was my goal. And I didn't want to be chained to a laptop. So I was just working the absolute bare minimum. And you know, every decade is going to be so different. You know, my 40s,

you know, maybe my kids are at school more and I'm like, you know what? I want to sink my teeth into like a big project, a bit like I want to take a bigger swing at things or maybe I'll decide I want to like go all in and piss all about. I don't know what it's going to be. My 50s probably even more so that like

Every single decade is going to be different. And I think we get to give ourselves permission to evolve and freedom is getting to choose. Okay, with each decade, what is it that I'm choosing? What is it that lights me up and will actually give me that aliveness? That's what we're all chasing. Every day we want to wake up and feel alive and energized and happy about how we're living our life. And if we can move with the seasons of life through that, I think that's incredibly powerful.

You know, this episode's been a real one. You know, when you get those mean girls, I'm just going to call them that, online, it can be really shitty. No matter how confident you're feeling yourself, it can just feel shitty. And it's inspired a bigger conversation about, let's just get into it. Let's really talk about it and dissect it. And I think this is really important. So I'm glad that it's led to something, you know, positive. I also just love calling it out because...

I think some people can feel really alone. Am I the only one that gets hated on by XYZ, whether it's people you went to school with who are making fun of the business you started or whatever it is. And it's not. Every single person, no matter where they are in their journey, they get it.

you know, it's okay to let it make you sad or, you know, let it get a reaction, but then just letting it fuel you even more towards your purpose. That's, that's how you can really transmit the energy. And that's what I, when I seen it, I was like, I'm going to put this fire into helping more women live this kind of life. Like that's, that's what I'm going to let it do. So we're just keeping it real. We're just being very honest with you.

Love it. I mean, that's what we're here for. And you said it. I think that's like the perfect place to end on. Freedom is getting to choose. And if you don't feel like you can choose in your business right now, that's not freedom. So how do we work backwards from where you are currently and go through all of these frameworks we've talked about and all the myths and figure out what is it that doesn't feel like you can choose? And how do you get to that point? Because ultimately, if you're not choosing it,

then it's never going to feel right.

You're never going to love it. And what do we care the most about? Like we started with, we want to love it. We want to feel good. We want to be excited about what we're doing. And yeah, there's going to be blips and things that come up and days where it doesn't feel good and you don't have a great day. But overall, we want you to love your business. We love our business. And if you love your business, your clients can feel it. Your customers can feel it. And ultimately, that's how you change the world.

Mm-hmm. If you're not consciously choosing it, you are unconsciously accepting it. That's it.

So if you're listening to and you're like, okay, I want to do more, we actually do have a free training coming up. I'm going to put the link in the show notes. It's from chaos to calm. And I'm sharing with you the playbook of a freedom based business. And what I think would be helpful is if when you're on that, you can self identify, okay, here's where I see that I'm at. Here's maybe the next, the three things that I could work on to support me and moving closer to this based on the playbook and everyone that's watching, it's going to be in a completely different

but hopefully you can identify, okay, where is it that I'm at and what are maybe three takeaways, three steps that I can implement to get me closer to it. So thanks for chatting. Yeah, I love these. The real and the raw. This is how it is day to day. Little fiery one. You can always count on us to bring the fire. I love it.