2024 Reviewed: sackings, snubs, and seismic shocks
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akinmulere. Today, we recap on the most eyebrow-raising, tell-everyone-about-it moment of the year. ♪

Joining us on the pod to look back at 2024's weird, wonderful and woeful moments, we've got the big guns, the heavyweights like Alexander Usyk versus Tyson Fury, editor-in-chief Laura Williamson and senior writer Adam Crafton as well. Good to have you both with us. Thanks for having us. I'm not Fury. LAUGHTER

All right. It's been quite a year, guys. We've got 12 moments to get through. So let's dive in at number 12. And we're starting with the Club World Cup. I just want to say you're led by a man named Johnny. I just know him as Johnny and he's a winner. Man, he's the president and I'm the president. And we've known each other a long time. Look.

It's not happened yet, but in around six months' time, the best clubs in the world and into Miami will descend on America for the Club World Cup. Some might call it Gianni Infantino's baby, but Adam, you've been following this circus. Bring us up to speed as to where we are right now. I'm worried we might lose the audience by putting Club World Cup at the top of this agenda. The Club World Cup is happening. Not sure we've got all the best clubs. We don't have the leaders of the Premier League. Liverpool won't be there.

Yeah, it's going to happen. It's been very bizarre, but there is a streaming provider now, which is DAZN. So that's where people will be watching it. I think it'll be sub-licensed though, probably to, it may be something like BBC or ITV, which may get a few games. And, you know, the clubs are now very, very excited about it who are participating because they found out they're going to get a decent amount of money. So particularly for those clubs who are

on I suppose football's breadline which is kind of the FFP PSR concern then there is some excitement developing about it although ticket prices came out last week and um

They're quite scary, I think, for most European fans looking at that. Laura, will this be football's fire festival? You know, that documentary where people pay tickets to go watch something that never actually happened. You know, there's a lot of hype around it. I've seen the zone deal. It looks like a lot of money. But are we going to be getting a spectacle? I think the problem with the Club World Cup is nobody knows what it is.

Infantino, Gianni Infantino can say all he likes that, you know, five billion people are going to watch it and five million people are going to buy tickets. But if you look at the comments on our articles, like no one knows what this thing is about, that they're being sort of force fed at all junctures. So I think it's a great unknown. I mean, it's going to be fascinating to see it.

exactly what happens. Do people buy tickets? Do people watch it and does momentum build when it happens? But at the moment, people are trying to market this thing that nobody knows what it is, which I don't know anything about marketing, but it doesn't seem the best recipe for success.

Yeah, we're going to have to keep our eye on that. Right, let's move on to number 11. Real Madrid snubbing the Ballon d'Or ceremony. This one was a bit wild, actually. Real Madrid didn't show up to the Ballon d'Or ceremony because Vinicius Jr. didn't win. Laura, it...

It's one of those moments, really, that sort of caught our eye. A bit of an eye roll moment. But, you know, the champions of Europe not coming up to the biggest award ceremony in the world of football. And their manager actually ends up picking up coach of the year as well. So bizarre. It was bizarre, but I'm here for it. I thought it was pettiness of the most extraordinary order. You know, if you're going to throw your toys out the pram, you know, lump them all the way down the rim.

on the river I mean the sort of pre-planned nature of it and then yeah en masse saying no we're not having anything to do with it it just sort of showed what award ceremonies are all about really which is you know sort of an arbitrary judging panel and and um and they make the decision and everyone just goes thank you very much um but I thought it was brilliantly brilliantly petty and um yeah I was here for it

are you here for the pettiness out of? Well, it kind of countered everything that we ever see from people at award ceremonies, which is,

But the number one rule is, if you don't win, don't show that you care. And they, you know, if you ever watch like the Oscars and it cuts to people in the audience, they're just sort of politely clapping and they're still there and they're happy to be there, etc. And this just broke all those rules. So it was amazing. I mean, it was also quite weird because, I mean, like Ancelotti had to pretend he was really unhappy. Yeah.

about an event where he'd been named coach of the year. Was Bellingham third, I think? Yeah, it was heavily Real Madrid. Bellingham was around. Dani Carvajal, for some reason, because he's won loads of trophies, but he's like this old man at right-back has become a random nomination for player of the year as well. So it was really strange. And I don't know whether...

Madrid maybe had had an early tip that Vinicius was going to win and then all of a sudden they found out he wasn't going to win. So it was almost, you know, like when you've been promised something almost and then you're almost more angry when you get down that line. And he'd had his boots made. He'd had his special boots made. Oh, yeah. Oh, the Nike boots, yeah. Oh, just wonderful. Yeah, so it wasn't great, was it? I mean, it was the most relevant, though, that the Ballon d'Or's ever felt to me.

in some ways in terms of it showed people actually really, really care about it. It's just been this kind of

red carpet walk, really, for Messi and Ronaldo for so long. So it did show that other players really care. And the best player did win, which is nice. Rodri, you know, as we've discovered since he's disappeared. I don't think anyone... So he won the Ballon d'Or and just never played football again. Well, I mean, seemingly, yeah. It was a really good video as well, wasn't it? Him in that Spanish restaurant after the event, sort of with...

his teammates singing and dancing and napkins flying around the room. So it all looked quite fun.

Yeah, for sure. Well, in winning the Ballon d'Or, Rodri became the first person born after the internet was invented to win the men's award. That's quite interesting. And also, let's not forget, Aitana Bonmati took the women's award for the second time in a row. Emma Hayes won coach of the year for the women's version as well. And she's definitely hit the ground running in America. Right, let's move on. An absolute bombshell for Liverpool fans everywhere. No one saw this coming, especially in the context of

of the season Liverpool are having. Jurgen Klopp, who said goodbye to Liverpool this year. This was one of those rare cases of the news just...

Coming out of the blue, especially for journalists, especially for football fans. Now, Adam, Klopp told Mike Gordon at FSG that he was leaving the club in November, but the news didn't actually come out to the end of January this year. How do you keep something like that secret from the world of football? They did pretty well. It was, you know, it was pretty impressive by Liverpool. But I think it clearly shows, you know,

First of all, they must have kept that circle pretty tight in terms of how many people at the club even knew. And maybe they were also just thinking, oh, is he really sure? Will he change his mind? You know, if we're delaying this announcement, maybe we can talk him round. Feels kind of mad now. I mean, you're kind of wondering whether Liverpool might have been better off if he'd gone a few years earlier, the way they're currently going on. But no, it was a kind of extraordinary moment. And it really felt like the end of something, essentially.

in the Premier League because at that point we also thought Pep Guardiola would leave within a year or so. It felt like, you know, that era of, you know, Pep and Guardiola and Pochettino and Mourinho, that kind of wave of managers was moving on. And I think Liverpool fans, I mean, I remember going to the first game after the announcement, which I think was an FA Cup game. Honestly, I mean, speaking to supporters that day, it was a grief-stricken moment

You know, people were in tears as you were interviewing them. And it feels quite surreal now just because, you know, the team basically looks the same as Liverpool did when they were at their best, maybe even slightly better, you know, in terms of having that, you know, smart people keep saying they have more control. To me, they're just looking really fun and exciting and the same, you know, they're scoring a lot of goals. They're now conceding quite a few as well, you know, over the last few weeks.

So yeah, like one of the rare examples, I think, in sport of seeing a great manager leave and nothing really changed at the club. I mean, the squad's not changed. The way the team plays hasn't changed dramatically. So it's been quite hard to get your head around, I think, for many people this season, both supportive Liverpool who were fearing the drop-off and supportive rival teams who were praying for a drop-off. You know, the last thing

Manchester United fans wanted at the end of 2024 was another year of fearing Liverpool were about to do a quadruple. But here we are. Oh, well, I was waiting before you got Manchester United in. We've only what? We're only three down before you got that in. Brilliant. Laura, not only was Klopp leaving a secret, but then he joined Red Bull, which seemed to take the football world by surprise, though apparently...

not the world of Formula One. I knew, of course, already for quite a long time that they were talking and that it was close to being signed. So I think it's great. Joining Red Bull seems to have, I guess, gone against that Dortmund way, Laura.

Did Klopp ruin his legacy, though, by joining Red Bull? I think it certainly has in Germany. Seb Stafford-Bloor, our German football correspondent, talks about it a lot, that people were really hurt by the decision for, you know, their leading light, this big personality. And as you say, somebody who'd had success with these community-driven clubs to, you know, God forbid, take some money and join the Red Bull conglomerate. I mean, what he's actually going to do is still to be determined,

New York Red Bulls got to the MLS Cup final and he was swanning around looking on the neighbour set in Australia. So how hands-on he's going to be is still to be determined. So yeah, another one to watch this space. Well, let's move on because now there are two ways to find a manager. You could do it the Liverpool way, data, find the right person, or you could do it...

In Catalan chaos, we move on to number nine. We're talking about Barcelona now because 2024 was quite the saga year for Xavi. In January, he said he would resign from Barcelona in May, saying the club wears you down. Then he oversaw a dramatic improvement in results. So the club managed to change his mind in April.

So he decided to stay on. Performances, though, then became a little lacklustre and he was then sacked by May. I mean, I hope you're keeping up. But Adam, Barcelona are never far from the headlines, but this was particularly strange of events for that club in particular. Are there just some clubs that like to attract drama? And I'm hoping you won't say Manchester United until a bit later on in this conversation. The financial situation's been pretty bad. You've had these kind of ridiculous situations where, yeah,

They sign players, but they can't register the players or they have to wait a few months to get players on board to manage the books. And partly it's because La Liga has actually been pretty strong in getting a grip of its club's finances. They're basically saying, we're saving you from yourselves. You can't be trusted actually to manage your own finances and be sustainable as a football club. So I think La Liga have been quite impressed from that. Barcelona...

have have you know if you'd have said to Barcelona five years ago without any of these controls from La Liga what what do you want your squad to look like in five years time I don't think it would look anything like what it has this season which is a pretty young team many players coming out of the academy and I think the way they've ended the year okay the last couple of weeks hasn't been great with I think they've lost a couple of games lost against Atletico Madrid this weekend but

In general, I think Barcelona fans can now look at it and see, you know, we've got a young team, we've got a decent manager, back in the Champions League. I mean, it was crazy to have Barcelona in the Europa League, you know, for a year or two. That seemed crazy and really underperforming

in the Champions League when they were in it. Whereas this year, they've just looked a lot stronger, some really impactful results that we've seen. So it does feel like they are on their way back. They won't be at the Club World Cup, which we'll all be devastated about. But apart from that, I think a lot of things for them to be pleased about as they end the year, and obviously an amazing year for Spain in general, with the Euros as well.

Yeah, but you spoke about them not being able to register players. As things stand, Danny Almo, a player they signed in the summer, also a Euros winner from the summer. They initially struggled to register him at the beginning. They registered him in the end. He's managed to score six goals and has one assist in all competitions. Well, right now, as things stand, he's not eligible to play for Barca for the start of next year. So there's a big chance that you have Danny Almo, a top player they've just signed.

Leave on a free transfer. Definitely one to watch for sure. Right. Plenty more incredible moments to come. And yes, Manchester United fans, don't worry. We haven't forgotten about you. The 2024 F-150 Lightning Truck gets dirty and runs clean.

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You're listening to The Athletic FC Podcast with Ayo Akinwilere. It's The Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akinwilere, alongside Laura Williamson and Adam Crafton, looking at the weirdest moments of 2024. Now, before we get into the next section, I want to give a couple of honourable mentions. Firstly, this one, it's quite a niche one to these Arles.

Not until we were recording this did I actually realise that one moment this year, Neil Warnock was actually the interim manager at Aberdeen. I know it's a long way, you know. Sharon, my wife, said, Aberdeen? Yeah.

I mean, that managerial relationship lasted just a month, but he was still there. That's all that matters. Anyway, another one that caught my eye this year was the Ivory Coast at AFCON. And we did AFCON on the Athletic and it was an absolute blast. But I don't know if you remember, but the Ivory Coast actually sacked their manager midway through the tournament. They, of course, went on to win the tournament. Cote d'Ivoire, the champions of Africa.

despite having a new coach who would never manage a senior football team. Ladies and gentlemen, the beauty of AFCON. Can't wait for the next instalment. Right, let's get back to it. Number eight. Well, Maurizio Pochettino has agreed to become the next US men's national team head coach. Let's talk about Maurizio Pochettino.

Laura, this one was interesting. How did you end up with a team that was so different from what you had in mind?

How on earth were the USA able to poach potch? Very nicely done. I think there were a lot of steak dinners and bottles

bottles of red wine in restaurants from Adam's reporting and the Bolton Oreos pieces. I think it felt like after Greg Berhalter and a review and then a decision to reappoint him and then Cobra America, it was just dull from a US perspective. The team didn't fire. The press conferences were boring. It was like, come on, guys. In two years, we've got a World Cup on home soil here. We've got to have a bit of razzmatazz.

And so it sparked a complete change of direction. And Potch, you know, among others, there were conversations with other very high profile managers, but Potch was their man and they got it over the line. And you can see why, you know,

an established manager, a name, the ability to converse in Spanish and engage the big Hispanic audience in the US. Results so far haven't been exactly stellar, but the decision to appoint, to go after a name, I think was a good one because this team has got to get people behind them. And at the moment, they haven't really. I think that's fair, Adam, isn't it?

It's very fair. I'm still amazed how many people I meet who don't know there is a World Cup in the United States. Oh my God, really? In, what, 18 months' time? You know, I think it's been really dreadfully marketed. FIFA, you know, gave the competition to them, you know, almost a decade ago now and...

It's staggering to me. Like, I mean, how few people have that recognition. I don't think there's any country in the world that could actually host a World Cup and the whole country not know about it. But the US is a very unique place that is very...

kind of about the moments and characters of what is currently happening. And there is always so much currently happening. The news cycle moves so quickly. The sports cycle moves so quickly here that you really do just go from event to event to event to event to event. So when it's actually here, it'll be huge and people will be really into it. And that will be the moment when everyone's looking at Pochettino. First of all, a lot of people will be like, who is Pochettino?

Because there'll be a lot of casual supporters who just follow World Cups, who are dipping in, and new supporters. And I think it's a harder job than most people maybe realize because the team isn't that good. There's a couple of decent players, a couple of good players,

But they are weak in some really key positions, notably in goal, central defence and strikers. So it's pretty hard to win a World Cup or get to the quarterfinals of a World Cup without it. The advantage they have, I guess, is that it'll be the first expanded version of a competition.

So it would be quite difficult to go out of the group stages in that 48-team version. So that should give them a bit of a runway to get the country going, get behind them. So yeah, I think Pochettino's got a major job on his hands. And also just to get that enthusiasm into the support of the men's team, I think...

not to oversimplify it too much, but when I think about what Americans expect from their sport, they expect the best of the best. And that's why the women's team is really popular because they win stuff and they're competitive. Whereas the men's team has been pretty underwhelming. And you see that if you just look at the attendances of the games they play at home in the United States are so poor, like relative to what we see from other nations around the world and relative to the amount of people

in the United States. Okay. Let's stay with the international managers because it wasn't just the Americans making unexpected appointments. In at number seven, shock horror, England hire a German. I say it like that because I personally have no issue with it, but some tabloids here in the UK were absolutely outraged. This was the year that Gareth Southgate departed after leading England to within touching distance of a major trophy playoff.

Next to Sir Alf Ramsey, who won the 1966 World Cup, you could say he's the second most successful England manager. Anyway, in his place comes Thomas Tuchel. Laura, this is another story that definitely had very different reactions to it, let's just say that. It was surprising for me that Thomas Tuchel took the job, but from your perspective...

What did you think of the appointment? But also, does a manager have to be English to coach England? No, no, no, no, no. Last I noticed, he can't play up front. You know, it doesn't matter. You know, you look at somebody like Serena Wiegmann with the women's side, done great things. And also, you know, her Dutchness is celebrated in a way for bringing something different. I mean, everyone lost their minds over it.

There is a very sort of sensible argument to be had about why isn't there an English candidate that was popular enough and successful enough and all the rest of it. But that's not what people were debating. It was like, he's German. You know, that's outrage. It's remarkable. And I think to be honest, the part of the venom in the media was because so many people got wrong footed by the appointment.

That it was all that nonsense with Carsley saying, I'm in for it. I'm not in for it. I don't want to be in for it. I've never been in for it over the international break. And then there's this sort of narrative that the FA weren't doing anything as if they just sort of sat there since Southgate resigned.

And then some two-course stories sort of broke on the Friday in Germany and didn't really get followed up. And then suddenly, wham, bam, Tuesday, here's your man. But actually, he's not yet because he's not starting till January. So we're just going to have this really dreadful November international break where everyone's like, what's he doing? Where is he? But

but yeah, I mean, everyone lost their minds, but, um, I think it's again, really, really interesting. So you see what you can do, you know, he's an unproven international football, but again, like the idea of, of having, of having a name and, um,

and somebody to either get behind or criticise, depending on your political point of view. I think it's really interesting. Yeah, for sure. Right, let's move on because we've mentioned the World Cup a fair bit. Let's actually talk about the World Cup now because at number six, and this is a serious one, and we've just done a podcast very recently on it, it's Saudi Arabia getting the World Cup. Saudi Arabia wants to bring mega events, wants to bring sports.

entertainment, leisure events to the kingdom. It says it's doing this because it needs to diversify the economy, which is absolutely true and has been true for decades. It's a one-trick pony. It's an amazing pony, oil, but it has kind of got Saudi Arabia quite a long way. You know, it's now a G20 nation, but it's kind of plateaued in terms of, you know, how that economic success has spread through the country.

I think MBS, the crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman knows that. He knows he must diversify the economy. He must find work and things to do for his growing and quite young population. It's about 35 million plus now. So that's why they're doing this. Why they've got it? Well, now we get into how we feel about FIFA and how we feel about the way the world works. And let's be honest, none of it's good.

That was Matt Slater on this very podcast talking about why Saudi Arabia want and need a World Cup. Now, you remember that Saudi Arabia was given the hosting rights to the 2034 Men's World Cup, literally clapped in, and they now have less than 10 years to build 11 stadiums so they can host it. Adam, what are your thoughts on Saudi Arabia hosting the Men's World Cup in 2034? I think we kind of, well, we all knew it was going to happen, right, for quite a long time now.

We see lots and lots of sport and entertainment events take place there. I don't think it seems that unusual, to be honest, at this point. I think the way FIFA did it is probably the bit that most people have been annoyed by. If you think back to when FIFA basically was in meltdown post-Sepp Blatter and all the allegations, FBI investigations that came into it,

The feeling then was, oh, FIFA's going to change. It's going to be a different organisation. There's going to be transparency. There's going to be better governance. And then, really, this has just felt like a stitch-up, right? The way that they did the 2031, bringing in most of the world, three different continents, six different countries, which kind of just because of this rule that you can't have...

a World Cup in the same confederation the next time round or two times round, it meant that it was basically a clear run for the Saudis to be given the tournament. So the way I felt about it is far more actually about the way that FIFA did it rather than the idea of, you know, Saudi itself hosting a World Cup because, you know, once Qatar's happened, you know, it's a bit like when people say, oh, you know,

how can Saudis own Newcastle? Well, again, once Man City have been allowed, then Newcastle have to be allowed. And I just don't think there's anything hugely surprising about that. I think...

Clearly the stadiums are going to be a huge issue. You wonder, you fear how that's going to happen. The stadiums that need to be built, the conditions that they're going to be built into for workers. But I think a lot of people have a level of fatigue really around a discussion that it's felt like we've had for over a decade now. Rightly or wrongly, that's kind of my feeling about it. It's almost like,

Yeah, well, they've won. Maybe that's not what people necessarily want to hear, but the money has talked emphatically. Yeah, I mean, Laura, the money has talked emphatically, but we are still talking about football. Money talks a lot when you want to do something, right? Yeah, it does. And I think Adam's right. It's the inevitability about this decision. And we can hear it in Matt Slater's voice, the sort of resignation that,

for another decade, another 10 years, I'm going to have to keep talking about all these really important things, you know, human rights, workers' rights, women's rights, and how that fits in with football. And it sort of comes back to, like, what do you want your World Cup to be? Like,

actually do you want to go and do you want to go and grow the game or do you want to take it to somewhere exciting and different I mean what about a world cup in China a world cup in India you know that that feels further away than it ever has actually um because it's like we've this realization that hosting global sporting events like world cups and olympics costs a lot of money and people have other priorities so therefore it goes to countries like Saudi Arabia and I mean personally I'm

pretty gutted to be honest I was in Qatar with Adam and Abby who's producing this podcast and it wasn't the best World Cup ever it was like a World Cup in somebody's backyard and yes everything worked

And, you know, people, people, the few people that went had a nice time and were made welcome and all the rest of it. But there was no there was no buzz. There was no there was no sort of learning. There was no perspective shared. It was just like being in Disneyland for a month and then off you go again.

And also, you know, the idea of, again, being a woman covering it in 10 years' time doesn't exactly fill me with glee. But it comes back to that inevitability and resignation, and that's where we are, and that's where FIFA are, quite pertinently.

Yeah, Adam, something Matt also spoke about was how visibly he saw things were changing and how visibly this World Cup is being used as a way for Saudi Arabia to try and shed its previous images anyway. Do you think that football can do that for a country as part of a catalyst for change? No. Well... No, be honest. No, I don't.

So I think there's two different things going on, right? For sure, there are, you know, if you compare, I have friends in Saudi Arabia who tell me, you know, when they're kind of around my age, when they're saying 20 years ago, when I was growing up, you know, things like playing music in the car, you'd have the religious police on to you. There'd be curfews about when you could play football in the street at night, right? That sort of stuff.

thankfully, has changed and is evolving. You go to many of these kind of global events now in Saudi, you will see women working there. I mean, we're talking about like some bare, bare minimum stuff here, right? We're like giving people a round of applause because women are allowed to work. So yes, there is change for sure. I don't really see that that's about football though. I don't really see that, you know, football is this thing that's going to change the world. It's one of those things that,

that could change. But I don't see it as a catalyst per se. And the reason I don't see it as a catalyst is because the key stakeholders, worst word in sport, stakeholder, like FIFA, are so set on basically sucking up to anyone who is doing organizing for them.

rather than actually trying to be with them really on that journey and being a strong voice in that room. You know, it's so, you can see it already, you know, this is going to be the greatest World Cup ever. Thank you so much, MBS. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Rather than we're taking this really prestigious tournament to you because we believe in the power of sport for change. Here are the four or five things that we are absolutely set on

making sure happen as part of this World Cup. Here are our red lines. Here's what needs to happen. But they won't do that because that's not Infantino's personality. And we saw it in the report that was commissioned about the bidding process for the World Cup where they basically just removed anything that might impact the Saudis, right? So you have this kind of ridiculous report where they were taking out things that you would

that you would ordinarily put to the test in a bidding process around human rights or workers' rights or the right to expression or the right to organise. And they were just taken out, they just weren't included in the report. So that, I think, is what is concerning a lot of the human rights organisations, you know, 10 years out from the tournament. Yeah, and Laura, this idea that a World Cup comes in and helps...

reshape the football infrastructure in a country. It's a, it's a tricky one. I look at South Africa. Um, I don't know if that helped create a greater football infrastructure in the country. I look at various in the countries in many respects. Should we just admit the truth and say it goes to the highest bidder at this point? Cause that's what it looks like is happening. Yeah, I think we should. And to say that it's a, um,

a month-long wonderful spectacle and then on we go. Like I'd love to say that, you know, the power of sport, which is something about being now who I really genuinely believe in, can transform a country. But you're talking about stadiums that people file into and then file out of and hopefully spend as much money as they can while they're there.

Right. Let's move on because time for a break. We still have five more moments that define the year to get through. And one of those moments may make you squirm just a little bit.

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You're listening to The Athletic FC Podcast with Ayo Akinwilere. It's The Athletic FC Podcast and we've got Laura Williamson and Adam Crafton looking back on 2024. And let's get into Adam's specialist subject, Manchester United at number five. We are, of course, talking about Eric Ten Hag. Should he have stayed? Should he have gone? Do any of us know what they're doing? These are all the questions on the lips of Manchester United fans.

because in May, it looked to the world like Manchester United were going to part company with Eric Ten Hag. But then he went and won the FA Cup.

So despite a season which saw the club finish 8th, the lowest since the 89-90 season, they conceded 58 goals. They were bottom of their Champions League group, 15 goals conceded.

And they even managed to lose a match. They were leading in the 100th minute to Chelsea. So, Adam, remind us why the FA Cup win was enough for Sergium Radcliffe and his team to think this is the man for the job. Well, now it looks ridiculous. I think at the time they'd beaten, I mean...

Again, now it looks ridiculous to say that beating Man City is enough to keep your job. I mean, everyone would keep their job at the current rate. But at the time, you know, they beat Man City. And I think people thought, you know, he'd had a tough year. The injuries were difficult. There's been off the pitch stuff. There'd been a takeover. He'd won two trophies in two seasons. You could see the argument starts develop. I mean, they also spoke to pretty much every other manager in the world before.

before giving him that contract, which further damaged his credibility, really. Because, you know, if you're sure on someone, you don't go around checking with everyone else first. So that's why they did it. It's obviously gone absolutely terribly. And, you know, you can call it an initial kind of rookie mistake from a new owner. It's not unusual to see new ownership struggle again.

with the first decisions that are made. But actually, for the knock-on impact it's had on this season, I mean, Man Utd look incredibly unlikely to get into the Champions League. It's going to have...

a real impact probably on the first five years now of their ownership because two years out of the Champions League, there's a big financial impact on that. That's the point where their Adidas contract starts to reduce when you spend more than a year out of the Champions League. So lots and lots of challenges, I think, that are going to come out of it. And I think if you're a Man United fan, you kind of want to be optimistic because you've got this

kind of new ownership, but not really a new ownership. You've got a new manager who's, you know, so far very, very good to listen to in Ruben Amarim, less good to watch his team play so far, to be honest. And I think, you know, yesterday's defeat against Bournemouth was one of those that was, I think, very, very sobering, you know, for fans. It was like,

God, you've lost at home to Bournemouth 3-0 two years in a row. You know, that's not a freak. That's just who you are at this point. Happy New Year. I've got to say, the initial reactions, though, you know, when Ten Hag was staying on seemed very positive. I think the most liked comments on David Ornstein's story was always the right choice. Let's move on. But then in October, Laura, things hadn't improved and...

I guess it was an eventual goodbye. What did you think of that? Did they hang on too long? Should they have made a decision much earlier? Was there writing on the wall all along? Definitely, definitely. Like, as Adam says, you can't publicly call other people and then say, oh, actually, you were the right man all along. It just felt like every game, they were on the verge of crisis. You know, another defeat. Is he going to go? Is he going to go? Yeah.

You know, when Barada and Ashworth did their briefing and there wasn't, you know, sort of any public backing for him, it was just, it felt inevitable. So, yeah, when the axe finally fell and the Athletic broke the news, you

Yeah, it felt like it should have happened in May, to be honest. Yeah, well, it's not enough for United to have just one spot in this countdown, given the year they've had. So, number four goes to Manchester United again. Dan Ashworth, that name.

It was so important it made us record a podcast about the now-departed Manchester United sporting director. After waiting five months for him to start his job, it lasted just about five months in Israel before being booted out. Adam, as the fountain of knowledge of Manchester United, is there any, what can I put, sensible way of saying what on earth happened here? It's a total disaster, right? Yeah.

Yeah, I suppose the kind of the generous take is, you know, sometimes in life you hire people and you realize quickly you've made a mistake. And you then have a decision that you either deal with it quickly and you move on or you kind of let it stew and let it fester and let it, you know, get worse and worse and worse. So that's the positive argument.

It just looks ridiculous. It is a bit ridiculous. At a time where, I mean, like one of the real stories of this year has just been Manchester United's, at times, pretty insane levels of cost-cutting, the kind of penny-pinching, the pettiness, you know, the, I don't know, banning the company credit cards, cancelling Christmas parties, Jim Ratcliffe sending emails about untidiness when he goes to visit the club.

I mean, it's been like as if you've been writing some sort of satire of Scrooge at Christmas across an entire year. Don't forget they cancelled Sir Alex as well, by the way. There's another one. Yes, Sir Alex's contract. I mean, that, to be fair, maybe needed to happen. Some of the other ones, you know, you think about.

you know, the coach travel for staff going to the FA Cup final that was cancelled. I mean, there's so many. But in that context, you know, to spend probably over £5 million on, you know, getting Dan Ashworth through the door from Newcastle,

then paying him while he's at the club, then paying him off when he leaves the club, I imagine as well. It just looks bad. You know, it damages the credibility of the people running the club because it says to that, you know, they're telling the world we have to be so careful with all our money. But actually, you know, we've just done that with Dan Ashworth.

We've spent another 200 odd million in the transfer window this summer and it's early to judge these players. But, you know, Josh Xerxe is not going to be a Manchester United legend, I fear to say. So they're kind of giving and taking with different hands at the moment. And it just looks bad, I think, and...

As I say, you know, the knock-on impact of this, I think, is going to run for quite a few years because if you're out of the Champions League, not in the Club World Cup, that's another source of revenue as well. United are going to really struggle. You know, this coming year, I think their training kit's up for sponsorship. Their sleeve sponsor is up for renewal as well.

And just things like that, where they've really trimmed down their commercial department even, I think they're going to find it hard to get new deals because they've been this incredibly robust commercial entity for so long. But there is a point you surely look at Man United as a business and just say, I'm not sure I want my company's name on this team that keep losing, right? That keep just being involved with...

you know, scandal. But we're not yet at that tipping point, but I wonder when it is. Yeah, I mean, Laura, it just seems...

Every week there's another story in Manchester United. I was going to ask you how they break this cycle, but I mean, you're not a CEO of a company. How do we break this cycle? I don't want them to break the cycle. The stories are great. The debate's great. Keep going, keep going. I just wondered if they're a bit like Barcelona in many respects. You know, when a club's winning like that and you're doing so well, it's easy to forget all those cracks in the background that need fixing. It's when you do have that moment again,

and there's a slump and it keeps getting worse. Everyone's going, what? You're still faxing people. You're still using a fax machine in 2024. Are you kidding me? Yeah, definitely. And I think, I mean, it's a bit of a cliche, but I think we sometimes forget how massive United are. They're just this huge behemoth of a football club that,

in many ways transcends football and we've in INEOS and Rackliff and Sir David Brailsford etc we've got this machine if you like that's come in and tried to sort of take the football element out and look at things ruthlessly and make these cost-cutting decisions but you can't

do that like football is different because that's what we're saying about the world cup in a way but you can't you can't just strip all the emotion out of it and think you know it's going to be fine to cut people's christmas bonus vouchers or whatever it's just different and i think maybe when when they sort of understand that a little bit more it it might help but um but no more more stories please keep it going as far as i'm concerned

All right. Well, it is at least a reprieve for some fans for the red side of Manchester that the blue side having their own little meltdown. Of course, number three is Manchester City's end of year form. Just one win in 12 games now for City. I mean, who would have thought we'd be saying this about Pep Guardiola and Manchester City? Yeah, it's extraordinary. And I'm

I mean you look at all the reasons and Rodri's absence being the main one but it was sort of like a couple of games oh there's a blip and then when he appeared with all the scratches on his face and it's just it's just kept

going it's genuinely extraordinary and and coming coming so fast after the the contract renewal and then with the 115 charges still hanging over them you know we may will we get a resolution by the end of the season we don't know on that um it's just this yeah this huge juggernaut of doom in the blue on the blue side of manchester at the moment

Yeah, any word on the 115 charges? Just a quick one on that. Do we know when it's going to be revealed as to what the verdict is? Pep seemed to say the other day he thought it would be in the spring. I think that might be a little bit optimistic, just because this has taken forever and feels like it will take forever and ever. I mean, I also wonder whether rival clubs would, you know, if there is to be a points deduction, for example, would

I feel like rival clubs would probably want it to be next season now rather than this season, right? From a point of view of actually mattering. You know, I mean, okay, it might take them out of the Champions League or something like that. But...

I think when we were all initially thinking, we were thinking, oh, it could stop them winning a title or it could be really pivotal at the end of the season. Whereas now it's like, might stop them getting to 40 points, you know, the way they're going on. So it's a pretty strange one. I mean, the most likely thing, if there is one now, feels like it might just take them from sixth to ninth, which feels pretty weird, really, at the end of this huge process. I think there's been a great theatre movement

So what's been happening with City over the last few weeks, you know, as Laura says around, you know, just watching Pep has become really kind of compelling viewing. You've gone from this team that had really no jeopardy. You know, they were the team, you know, they'd like not lost in 35 games. I almost reached the point with City where if they're playing, I don't know, at home against a team in the middle of this table, you almost just don't switch on.

Because you know what's going to happen. You know they're going to win 2-0, 3-0. You know Haaland's going to score. You've seen the game...

50 times already. So to go from that to, I mean, it's pretty weird. I mean, I now wake up on a Saturday morning in the States and City are already losing at 8am, right? Like, that's what happened this weekend. And, you know, there's another game on Boxing Day where there is, I think there are 7.30am kickoff here. And it's like, God, I better get up at 7.30am because you're not quite sure what's going to happen with Manchester City. So it's gone from no jeopardy to like all the jeopardy. I'm kind of glad it's happened in that

For so long, we said, what would happen if Pep went to a team where not everything's easy and not everything's straightforward? Actually, I think what we're seeing at the moment is it was never easy. It was never easy. He made it look easy. And now, can you go and do it again? And if he does, if he goes and wins the Champions League in the second half of the season, it will look like the most extraordinary achievement.

Yeah, well, plenty more on City's downturn as we recorded a podcast on it actually last week with Sam Lee and Rory Smith. Make sure you check that out. Now, the next story, which makes second spot, has garnered so many clicks on The Athletic. We just had to talk about it. At number two, it's Jamie Carragher.

going so far over the line on CBS that it left even Micah Richards stunned. The Liverpool defender questioned the loyalty of host Kate Abdo, now Scott, in a joke that didn't land well at all. But don't worry, we're not going to ask either of you two what you thought of the joke.

but the CBS show, this show goes viral every week. People on social media just flock to the clips of Thierry Henry, Carragher, Richards, and also Scott interacting together in the studio. Adam, you're in America. I personally think this show has been a global stroke of genius in the fact that obviously no one really not watches the football they're talking about, but they just see these small clips, which technically grows the audience of that platform. Um,

What is the view on that CBS show in America? Are people talking about it in the same way as I perceive they are from the online status? I don't know. I've never been out on a Saturday night and people are bringing up the CBS show. It's a strange thing in that you have to remember this is the middle of the afternoon.

for most people or early afternoon if you're West Coast. So it's a strange concept in that sense. I mean,

I suppose what they do get is like kids coming home from school and they'll get, you know, the second half of the Champions League. You get a lot of people, I think, double screening at work. You know, they'll have a screen open with the Champions League, particularly the latter stages. And I think the show itself is interesting because I think the social media perception of that show is maybe a little bit different. There's been a couple of times where I've actually just watched it and I

Actually, the show as a whole is pretty good. It's pretty, as you would expect, if you've got Thierry Henry and Carragher and Micah Richards and Kate Scott, you know, you've got a kind of a balance of talent there. But what you see, obviously, the virality of the clips are kind of the craziest ones. And I think that, you know, I think it is intentional. I think, you know, they want to be talked about. I think they've taken inspiration from...

on the CBS platform from some of the other shows that have been big in the States, particularly around NBA and baseball over the years. So I think it has a far bigger impact than TNT's coverage. I think TNT should be pretty concerned that on Champions League nights, you have people in the UK talking about clips from the US.

That's pretty strange. You know, that in a way that would never really happen with, you know, Robbie Musto and Robbie Earl on NBC compared to the way that Sky do the Premier League. So I think there's a, you know, there's a big impact in that. I'd also just say on that Carragher clip, it was really fascinating the way it was subsequently handled. You know, I think this is the next night that

Kate Scott kind of took grip of it on air in a way that we don't really see with these scandals. They tend to be things that, you know, companies issue statements about and things like that. And actually, she just sort of went on air and took the piss, right, out of character, called him, you know, the annoying younger brother. Whether that was, you know, enough evidence

you know, for everyone watching, I don't know. But, you know, you kind of watched it and you kind of listened to it and you thought, yeah, that's a pretty impressive way to handle a situation that was blowing up. It kind of diffused it almost immediately.

All right, let's leave Carragher and his mates to their terrible jokes and get to number one, because there really is only one moment this year that truly had football fans baffled, wondering if it was actually really a deepfake. And to introduce it, our number one moment, I'm going to turn to Ian McIntosh on the Daily Football Briefing to reenact the viral moment in a family friendly way.

So, an apparently well-lubricated person asks the individual what he thinks of Liverpool. Liverpool was silly. Jurgen Klopp is a kitten, says the individual. When asked for clarification, the individual says, Aside from having a right pop at me when I reffed them against Burnley in lockdown, then he accused me of lying, and then just had a right fluffy pop at me. I've got no interest in speaking to someone who's fluffy arrogant, so I do my best not to speak to him. My God, the German kitten. Fluff me.

And at this point, the person conducting the interview wraps it all up by saying, long story short, Jurgen Klopp's a kitten, Liverpool are all fluffy beanbags, and we hate Scousers.

Our second video has also been released, in which the individual and our lubricated interviewer ask for it not to be shared. He's a Premier League referee. Let's not ruin his career. Oh dear. If that really is David Coote, he's a very silly fluffy kitten. This was the video of the now former Premier League referee, David Coote, complaining his utter distaste for Jurgen Klopp and Liverpool.

Well, it was a career ruined because two days later, Coote was hit by more allegations. The Sun, a British newspaper, published a video which showed someone they alleged...

was Coote sniffing white powder through a rolled up US banknote. They said the video was from July the 6th, the day after the Euro 2024 quarterfinal between France and Portugal in Hamburg, where Coote was the assistant VAR. Now, The Athletic never verified this video, but the PGMOL did say that the cumulation of the two videos was enough to make Coote's position untenable.

Where do we start with this one? Adam, Laura, this is not definitely where I was expecting as our number one, but we have to talk about it. Seeing how this has played out. Do you have sympathy for Kuta? Do you understand how this has played out, Laura?

I have a lot of sympathy. I mean, get some better mates, to be honest, would be my view on it. I also agree with the PJMOL, the refereeing body decision, that it is untenable once you've seen a referee, you know, ostensibly doing things like that and saying things like that, that, you know, he's the man or the woman in the middle and,

Your judgment is supposed to be final. But I had a lot of sympathy for this person who isn't particularly famous being caught up in this massive storm and suffering.

The way things all came out was pretty awful. But yeah, just don't video things and get some better mates, to be honest. Yeah, I mean, Adam, you do something like that and you expect it not to make the internet. I mean, I don't know what would have been going through his mind, but you have to feel some sympathy for him. This was a guy refereeing one day. Now he has no job. Yeah, I mean, like, it just made me think, like, imagine the worst, you know, the most embarrassing thing you've ever done

the worst text message you've ever sent. I don't know, the most, yeah, the most embarrassing thing you've done, becoming known to everyone in the world and your employers, right? I think that's a

A fear or anxiety. I say this with my boss on a podcast. You know, that's a fear or anxiety that I think everyone can relate to, right? You know, one of your apparent friends appearing to, you know, sell you out in some way. I mean, it's horrible. It's like a really horrible story in many ways. I actually, I didn't think that the clip of him talking about

Liverpool in itself was necessarily enough. I thought the videos combined, I think it just left him in a position where actually if he was refereeing,

it would probably be so unpleasant for him and so difficult for him, you know, with everyone knowing that. I mean, I do wonder if he could go and referee in a different country. Saudi Pro League must need some refs or, you know, something like that. Gladiators. Gladiators. No, you can't. Can you imagine if the BBC hired David Coote? It's almost impossible for the BBC to go down that line. LAUGHTER

New audiences, Adam, new audiences. If Gary Lineker's too toxic now, then God help David Coop. But Laura, I just wondered what this does, though, in general, you know, for, you know, trust and

towards referees, conspiracy theories surrounding referees that some fans seem to go on about so many times. He hates us because, you know. I mean, it's not helping any of that, is it? No, I mean, any excuse to have a go at referees and people will take it. But, I mean, it's an odd profession to do, you know, this sort of travelling band of... I know you used to be a referee, Adam, so sorry. Did you? Not at that level. No.

Unfortunately, there was too much evidence online. Already. Already. Exactly.

But this, yeah, this travelling band of people who rock up and then, yeah, have such big decisions to make in the eyes of football fans. So it doesn't help. But I think the way it has been dealt with, I think, has been pretty good. And just, yeah, just obviously concerned for him and his well-being because the last thing you want to be as a referee is the centre of the story.

For sure. Well, I think on that note, we've summed up our year. Let us know your thoughts, your disagreements. Stick them in a five star review. It's Christmas after all. Comment on YouTube or Spotify. But hopefully we have put you in a festive mood and you're not dreaming of a white Christmas. Not like that.

Laura, Adam, thank you so much for your time. It was an absolute joy to have you on the pod. Thank you all for listening today and also this whole year. It has been an absolute pleasure presenting the podcast. We'll be back on Friday for the weekend preview. Have a good break. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

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