Title race is OVER | The Kyle Walker problem | De Bruyne dilemma
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Hello, welcome to the Talking City podcast coming to you from the Manchester Evening News and a bit of a different podcast because we're talking about a losing City side and they've not done that for quite a while. Obviously, it's five games now losing in a row. We thought maybe the international break would change things, but no, it was...

They've saved the worst defeat for the weekend at Tottenham and the long, unbeaten run at home is over. We'll be dissecting that. We've just heard from Pep Guardiola and Kevin De Bruyne will have a word about that as well. And a look ahead to Feyenoord in the Champions League, which is probably a bigger game than we thought it would be at this stage of the season. My name's Joe Bray, joined by Simon Bajkowski at City. Si, a nice short and sweet press conference for you?

45 minutes said my tape I think it was 41 but uh yeah pet with a lot to say Kevin de Bruyne with a lot to say uh nice to hear from uh Kevin particularly because we've not heard from him in a long while and because he usually has very good things to say he's very honest and upfront about everything so uh yeah a busy busy old time I I love hearing from the point because

He will react the same way to every single question, which is a sigh and a puff of the cheeks. And then he'll say something fascinating and he won't hold back on anything. He'll say exactly what's on his mind, but he won't upset anyone at the same time. It's quite a skill that he's got there. But yeah, if it's going to be a 45 minute press conference, you want it to be someone like Kevin De Bruyne and talking about something like this, because I think it was a very, very interesting one. Before we get to that, let's talk about Tottenham. It was...

I mean, I asked you this before earlier today, how bad was it? Because I was watching on the telly and you can hear sort of the commentary and they're obviously bigging up City are losing and City are in crisis mode. You can probably put down each of these four results to a lot of things, primarily injuries, but it felt to me like a lot of it was just defenders not doing their job and defending. You offered a bit of a different view in that, was it that bad a game? It's hard to actually assess it in the

in just sort of in the microcosm of the game that it was. It is, and it depends how you view defeats. You know, I always, generally, I don't, I think City defeats are less bad when they've played, when they've created chances and done pretty well. And they did. And like, they were sharp in the first minute. They had a chance in the fourth minute. They had a chance in the 11th. Like, Haaland takes either of those. I think it's a comfortable game.

When you look at the other aspects, they didn't take the chances. They were too easy to play through in the midfield. And the defence and the people who were in the defence, like Kyle Walker, were there to stop fast players going past him. Didn't do what they should have done. I thought Walker was largely decent against Son.

Like he had a tricky guy to deal with and he dealt with him pretty well, but then you just can't do what he did against Werner. And it's another one like he's had all season really, where you think, well, if you're not doing what you're in the team to do, then why go about it? So it was tough. I struggle to blame the whole, to sort of put it on the defence side,

Because I think if City score, then the defence is stronger because they're in a better position in the game. And I think the midfield has been absent. But I also struggle to put it on Haaland because nobody's supporting him in goal scoring. That's another big issue. De Bruyne said today, he was like, I thought we played quite well, but we've lost 4-0.

So it's kind of a weird state of affairs. There were positives you could take from the game, but it depends on how you view defeats as to where you want to place that in the five. But it was probably one of the worst just in terms of people just not doing their jobs. I don't think they lose 4-0 if they've not lost four on the trot because Haaland's probably full of more confidence and confidence.

I don't think he did badly with either of those chances, like you say, but maybe the first one where it takes a little bit too long. If he's just sort of completely natural instinctive, he'll score both of those and, like you say, City 2-0 up and coasting.

If there's just a bit more weight on the shoulders of we've got to win this game because it's so important and if we don't win, we're out of the title race and all those thoughts are going through your head as you're just trying to put the ball in the back of the net. I feel like that helps as well. I think Guardiola, in any other situation, just knocks that ball out of play or gets there first and plays it back. I don't know what he was trying to do, but letting it run was the worst thing to do. Passing it just into the centre for the second goal. Again, if he's not got all those things on his mind...

He just does what he does naturally and he's done 100 times before and it's fine. And yeah, the Kyle Walker thing has been sort of blown. Maybe I'm not sure out of proportion because there is a Kyle Walker issue going on, but it's just compounding it. If it's the fourth goal in a 4-0 defeat and that's the last thing that you're thinking of, that's what everyone's thinking about once they leave the game. I think it has been blown out of proportion. Like, I don't think many people...

Many City fans at the minute like Walker, and I think everything he does, they jump on and say, oh, that was terrible. And, like, yeah, it's not good enough from him to be getting outpaced by Werner. But, like I say, he did pretty well against Song when Guardiola, like you say, has committed two just fundamental errors. Like, if you're judging the defence, you can't say Walker was worse than Guardiola. And also that fourth goal, I was sort of distracted a bit because...

the press box as we see it we would directly in line see Jack Grealish give the ball away on the halfway line playing a ball that he thought Manu Akanji was running onto so Grealish has got his arms up saying where are you Akanji and Akanji's got his arms up saying what the hell pass was that so like yeah Walker shouldn't have let it happen but like he's not the only one culpable for that goal and it just kind of sums up that there's problems everywhere you look at the minute

And as well, if we're going to be defending Kyle Walker, he isn't fit. He's playing, he got, he rushed himself back to put himself on the pitch and help the defence through the injury crisis that is still ongoing. He's been playing out of position. He's been, he looks like a player who needs to be rested and rotated into the side rather than coming back and playing back-to-back 90 minutes. So in that sort of game, you can sort of see why he's, why it's happened basically. And I also think he,

It's his job as captain to sort of front up after the game, but he did that and you can agree or disagree with what he said. But to do that and just say to your teammates, I'll face the media, I'll say that that is what you want your captain to do. And I think that will probably help some of the younger teammates. You don't want Cavadio coming out and answering questions about why he's passed to a Tottenham player because it's not going to help anyone. It probably helps City, if not maybe the media, just to have Walker say,

the exact things that a captain should say after a 4-0 defeat. Yeah, and nobody else stopped. Every player can walk through the mixed zone and speak to reporters and nobody did. So, all right, he should stop because he's captain, but there's plenty of times where they have had defeats and they haven't. And yeah, I don't want this to turn into the Kyle Walker can do no wrong podcast. There's already one of those, don't worry.

Yeah, yeah. You can beat Kyle Walker with many things, but not everything. Maybe that can be the title. Yeah, it was just... There's just loads. There's loads going on at the minute. Chaos, I think, was how De Bruyne described two weeks before the international break. So it's...

City are all over the place. And I think, you know, Ange Postacoglu made the point after the game that we were well aware that the four defeats prior to this were away from home. So they were expecting, you know, City with this two-year unbeaten home record, don't forget, to go on and smash them. And they might have done if Ireland had taken any of those chances or, you know, Sevigno doesn't bail out that one-on-one.

But they didn't. And another worrying factor was how mentally fragile they were. City, for the last two years, have been very good at comebacks. And certainly in the second half, it just never felt on. City were 2-0 down two years ago, at home to Spurs, 1-4-2 in the second half. Here, you never felt that was going to happen. And 4-0, maybe it's gloss on the scoreline or whatever, but it doesn't lie. City got hammered.

Yeah, I think that watching it at home, when Madison scores that goal, you saw the heads go down, like almost physically in front of you. In the past this season, they've conceded first and it's sort of woken them up and spurred them into action. But you got the sense that that goal goes in.

and the message in the heads was here we go again this is it's happening again from the last few games and then i mean in the last three games in this losing run they've conceded twice in quick succession against brighton and uh sporting before that it was it's not been it's not been the sort of mentality that we've seen from city and i mean at half time they're sort of two nil down and we've seen city two nil down at home to tottenham and

We later see that Guardiola gives them a rollicking at half-time and they come back and win 4-2 and that prompted the happy flowers rant. 2-0 has never been a scoreline for City that has been one that they're going to go on to lose, but you really felt like it was and it was a matter of time before Spurs did it. I think that's the worrying thing. I know they're missing players. I know there's a lot of players out of form, but...

The worrying thing for me was how easy the defence was carved open and how quickly the heads dropped. You've got players like Rico Lewis and Josco Gavardial who played really, really well this season, but they are young and they've probably been played more than they should have been just because of the injuries. You get the sense that it's not just the injuries that

that is keeping really important experienced players out, but it's forcing players who you don't want to be playing every week to be playing every week. And I think it's starting to catch up with them. Like Gundogan is another player, a bit like Walker, who isn't playing very well at all. And there are big question marks over that. But the ideal thing for all of these players is just take them out of their firing line for a little bit. But you can't do that with Gundogan because now Kovacic is out and Rodri is out and I

I think Guardiola said you want him to be playing in the number 10 position but he has to be playing in number 6 and everything has a knock-on effect and I think it's just caught up with City and as ever with the size of the squad you can cope with a couple of injuries but not 6 or 7 and that's what's happening and it's not just 6 or 7 injuries it's 4 or 5 players who aren't fully fit in the squad who have to be playing and

As City keep on telling us and Guardiola's told us for months and years, they're not going to win forever and no team in the world can cope with that. Yeah, I'm going to read this quote from Pep today because it kind of put it in perspective a bit. When we lose transitions or don't win duels and they're stronger than us and we have to run backwards...

because our four central defenders are not there. They're still not ready because they were injured. Our main player for transitions, Rodri, is not there. We cannot survive because with four central defenders, I put Manu or John there with Ruben, Nathan and Josco behind. We will be strong, but we don't have it. I have to play with Gundo, who's an attacking midfielder and our best guy for arriving into the box. I have to play with...

with him as a holding midfielder because the other holding midfielder cover is injured and it has to be alongside Rico to give us lots of passes and we have to adapt it's not because they're soft or they don't want it or they are lazy and that kind of does just sum up how what a big knock-on effect it is you talk about Guardiola and Lewis and like I mean Guardiola

has been better than Lewis, but was worse on Saturday, but neither of them were great. And they are worse for having to play more minutes. But also Gundogan, like we talk about how Gundogan's been bad since he came back, and he has been, but

He shouldn't be playing. The plan was never for him to play as often as he's been playing. And if somebody's overplayed, especially at that age, it's going to show. And the same with Walker. I remember at the end of last season, there was a bit of uncertainty about whether Walker would stay. And he said, just before the cup final, he said, I want to stay. I don't care if I have a reduced role, but I'd like to stay. He was expecting a reduced role. He's not had it because...

No one else has been fit and he's not been fit, but he's kept on and played through it. So, like, you've got a load of guys who shouldn't be playing who are, basically. You know, there are questions like, play Nunes more, give McAteer a chance if your legs are so dead in midfield. That, you know, are legitimate questions, but they're just like, it's a bit like the leaky bucket. It's how many holes are there and how can you possibly fill it?

And that Pep answer is, especially when you put it like that, because I think when you're listening to Pep, you can sort of get lost in what he's saying. And he says a lot of things and then you have to sort of decipher it and take a step back and look at it. But when you say it like that,

That knock-on effect is ridiculous. And he could go on further and say he needs to play Bernardo in three different positions in three different games and he's not got his wingers and he's either had Grealish or Doku or Savino out, it feels like, every game. So he's not had consistency there. He's having to play Foden, probably playing him as much as he would like. But you would much prefer...

Rodri and Kevin De Bruyne behind Foden and then a makeshift midfielder is what we've had. And when you don't have Rodri, you've got to have Kovacic and another, like he says. And when you don't have all those players, it seems like everybody is moving back. So then you don't have support for Haaland. And that's probably why Haaland is on 15 goals and no one else is above three. And it just feels like the balance is completely off because they're out. You mentioned McAtee there.

Would you hazard a guess of how many Premier League minutes he's played this season? Well, I've got a spreadsheet for that, fortunately. So I can tell you that the answer is eight. Oh, that's different to the one I had. I thought it was one. But he's come on once as a substitute. He came on once. I think he came on in the 90th minute. But if you include injury time, it's eight. Oh, it's not injury time.

Either way, it's one appearance in the Premier League. Yeah, and that was Ipswich, wasn't it? Yeah, an inconsequential game. There's been a lot of times where he's needed... There have been times where City have needed a goal or needed to see out a game or needed something, and they've not called upon him. I'm not saying he's the answer. I'm not saying they've not lost five in a row, but it does seem like you have an option there and you trust this player to be in the first-team squad, but don't trust him to be in the...

in the team, especially when you're going through it. So it might be that he doesn't want to put him in when things are going rough and that's fine. And some players need more time than others. But when you're without so many players, you have a player there who's played eight minutes of football. It just feels like there is something of a solution there that you could be trying.

Yeah, it feels like they're missing a trick with McAtee. And, you know, this is a player who has had a promotion battle, he's had a relegation battle. And also, before he left for Sheffield United, he was ahead of Oscar Bob in, you know, the running. And Guardiola rates Oscar Bob very, very highly. And it's quite possible that

Bob would be ahead of McAtee regardless and that City would be better if McAtee was, if Bob was fit and not injured. But like, I don't think McAtee is that much worse than Bob or that completely different that

you would lose for putting him in. And maybe Guardiola feels like it's not the right time to put in a youngster like that. And maybe he feels like, you know, it wouldn't be fair on McAtee to play him in such unfair conditions. But I can remember, I think it was at Wolves last year when Nunes came off at half-time. It was Bob that came on. Bob came on at Newcastle in January when they were 2-1 down. So Bob was put into...

difficult situations and showed what he can do. And yeah, it does feel like they're in all this talk of valid talk of injury concern is like you have got a player that you could play who you're not playing.

Yeah, I think, again, I'm not suggesting he's going to be coming on and scoring a hat-trick and saving City every week and even producing the sort of Bobbitt Newcastle moments. But you have a player who can play in Bernardo's role or can play in the number 10 role and rest Foden or even rest Haaland if you need to and keep the rotation of other players just for the last 10 or 15 minutes in games. But I don't know, it just feels like there's

there's a reason why he's not playing I think you're right saying he's missing a trick rather than a solution but yeah as you say he's been in relegation battles he's used to playing in games where his side needs to score and needs to win so it'll be interesting to see how he's used especially as players come back and you would expect City sort of

improve their form, especially in the next few weeks, if he gets any more minutes. They're not in the Carabao Cup, he's played twice there. Does he play against Feyenoord, for example? I'm thinking FA Cup might be the next game that he's going to be confident of starting. It does feel like an odd situation when he's desperate for players and he's scouring the academy for centre-backs.

you have a player who's graduated from the academy and ready and has a Premier League experience who is right there. Obviously, one of the talking points after the Tottenham game was, who's next? Liverpool. And Liverpool then went eight points clear and can move 11 points clear. Pep said, if it goes to 11 points, that'll be too much.

Now, teams have come back from 12 points and won the Premier League in the past. City have come back from 8 and 10 points and won it. To me, it feels like it was a 2019-20 season where Liverpool just blew City away with a start. City had loads of injuries and City could just never recover. It feels like it would be that comparison rather than one of the other comebacks that City have mounted. And Pep was quite clear that

He would just like to win one game, let alone a run of 10 or 15 games to do something like that. Where do you see the title race, basically? Is it over if they lose at Liverpool? Is it still salvageable? There's 25 games to go after next weekend. I think it's over if they lose at Liverpool. I think football, as has been clear in recent weeks, I mean, the whole City documentary based on last season is all about mentality.

and having the mentality to go again and win. Ten points, double figures in a title race is huge. And I think that's what Liverpool got in 1920 when they beat City at Anfield in November. And that is what Arsenal could have got, I think, if they'd beaten City in the treble season.

at the Emirates that they could have gone into double figures. And Pep was like, it would have been over then. Now that's a few months later, but double figures in the heads of a footballer is kind of usually the end game. You can't say never because, you know, the City team have done things that had never been done before. And I also would say, you know, I don't think this Liverpool team have been outstanding.

And I think we're waiting to see if anyone can knock them. You know, someone messaged me yesterday and said it's the perfect game for City up next. And you think, well, they've got an awful record at Anfield and Liverpool are top of the league. But if City win on Sunday, then suddenly we're all talking about them being favourites for the title again. Never mind in the title race, favourites for the title. Look how they've turned it round. What a big win. Never done it at Anfield and now they've done it. Here we go again. But if they lose...

it's four consecutive defeats in the league. And without Rodri, they are going to lose again later in the year. You know, I think a 15-20 game unbeaten run or whatever, or 10-15 game winning run is less likely because they don't have Rodri for the season. So I think it would be more difficult for them to put together one of those runs. And the league will be won with fewer points this season. So if they beat Liverpool, then...

it's fantastic if they don't then I think if they lose it that it feels like it feels like the 2020-21 season when City were pretty awful really up until December but no team was good enough to kill them off and because no team was good enough City then put together a run and were champions like can Liverpool be that team can they kill City off

are they good enough to kill City off? It's a real test for them, really. Because if not, can City stay alive after Sunday? Because all they need to do is stay alive. That's what will matter most for them. But I think we are at that stage already where you're talking about, can they stay alive? I think at the same time, it's the worst possible game, but also the best possible game because on form, they're going to get battered and lose the title on form.

the best possible scenario is that they completely click out of the form and get back to winning ways with a win that they never get at the home of their rivals and catapult themselves back in the title races. There's no in-between. I'm not even sure a draw would help. It might help keep in touch and just prolong things, but it feels like it would be the first and last fixture you would choose to

when you've just lost three in a row and get back. I think they very, very much need to beat Feyenoord and probably quite healthily just to get some confidence back in the heads and get back to winning ways. But it will be fascinating to see, A, how they approach the game at Anfield and B,

what happens afterwards basically and how Liverpool approach it. Like you say, they've not been incredible but they've done what City have done basically in recent years and just won a lot of games. I was watching the Southampton game and they weren't very good and they were conceding a couple of goals but

There was a point where they were 2-1 down and they were like, we need to win this. And they did. And they just got the goals and that was it. And they were ruthless without playing very well. And that's what the cliche is, is what wins titles. So I would...

I think they are heavy favourites to beat City, especially on form, but you can never count City out. And I think, is it Ruben Diaz who said recently and other players is don't make us angry, don't count us out because that's the last thing you want to do. And it feels like those players are annoyed and angry at what is happening. So what better place to put that right and prove a lot of people wrong than Anfield? Because City don't win at Anfield, especially when there's

when there's a crowd, they're probably lowest odds to sort of turn that around in recent years. I think it would be typical City and typical Guardiola to go and get a 1-0 result or something or just upset the...

the narrative and because some people are crowning Liverpool champions and they're in a very very good position to do that but City know more than anyone that there is a long way to go I'm not even sure that 11 points would be the end of it like you say I don't think Liverpool are the same as City in the sense that they're not going to let it go I think they were better in that 19-20 season where they just didn't let it go at all

I can see a defeat in Liverpool somewhere and losing Trent Alexander-Arnold for a little bit is potentially sort of a weakness that they've got. I can see City, they've got to turn it around when they get the players back. They will do. And I think also all the bigger teams are better top number beating City and I think United will be better with Amirim and Chelsea beating teams in Arsenal. And in those games, I can see Liverpool in points and if City can just stay on the right side of

those big six meetings for example and do the job i'm not saying they're gonna come back but

I would say that if they can get within four or five points, then it gets in Liverpool's heads and you would back City over anyone else to be chasing rather than be chased. So, yeah, I'll offer a little bit of optimism there as an alternative view. Let's take a break there and then we'll come back and discuss Kevin De Bruyne and Feyenoord.

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Back to the Talking City podcast, Si, we heard from Kevin De Bruyne today. I was a little bit surprised to see him up, not in the sense that he doesn't share responsibilities, but he's not played a lot of football because he's been injured. He's not started a game since September. He's had a lot of little issues and also he's not signed a new contract yet. So they're not necessarily questions that you want

a player to be facing on top of why you're not winning football games, but he handled them all a bit like a pro, didn't he? He would have let Kev talk. Those are the things. He's, yeah, he's faced many questions in his career and he was certainly not shirk, anything like that. Plus that's his one for the season. So he's done now. He can put his feet up. He doesn't have to do a Champions League press conference again.

Yeah, he was very good, basically, on all of those things, because it has been a weird time for him. There's been a lot of frustration from Pep about his injury, about how he thought he'd be ready to play sooner than he was, and he's still not playing. And even now, he's still only managing 20 minutes and things like that. But there was a lot of honesty and frustration from De Bruyne. He said it's the...

most frustrating injury that he's had because he did it in midweek and thought he could be fit for the weekend and he's been out for nine weeks and he's still not at his best. So it has been problematic. And for all of these kind of, all of the issues that City have got as a team, we saw against Tottenham, like De Bruyne comes on, plays a pass to Haaland that nobody else on the pitch had played or would play. And, you know, could have been,

it was a very good chance. So even just having De Bruyne fit is a sort of tantalising glimpse of the improvements that City could see on the pitch. I thought he was quite straight to the point of protecting his teammates, but also saying it's not been good enough and we're a bit chaotic and we're not doing the simple things right and stopping short of the Fabian Delph basics rant. It was...

improve at both ends of the pitch and will be better but it must be frustrating for him being on the sidelines and not being able to affect anything and when he's coming on City are losing and he's got to do something quickly but like Pep said at Brighton nobody was fit and no one had any energy left so it was very very hard to do that so I think there's clearly an issue in his fitness he's not really been fit for 18 months I know he was there for the second half of last season but

he was scoring goals and getting assists but you just felt he wasn't quite comfortable and at his best and then he has that setback and you feel like he would just love to be completely injury free and have one last season if it is the last season of just playing with freedom and he's not had that freedom I think for a while but he's also aware of the situation and the bigger picture and he's

been around enough to know what is needed. And it was interesting what he was saying about the captains and the sort of crisis talks. He said, we have one or two a season and we've already had one, so we don't need another one too quickly. He's the one where when he didn't get the armband, everyone was saying, why hasn't he got it? But he will lead in his own way. And as he said at the time, he doesn't need the sort of status of a captain's armband to be a leader and a really influential voice in that dressing room.

Yeah, and also, I think you see him on the pitch and even when he was waiting to come on on Saturday, he's thrown his arms up in the air at his own teammates and things like that. And he can come across as quite...

I don't know, that could be seen as not the sort of captaincy you want, I think. But he's just comfortable in his own skin and comfortable expressing his own opinions. But I think when you look at the big picture stuff, and I know you've written about this today, the obvious counter is Mo Salah, who is in the final year of his contract at Liverpool. You had Salah, who never stops to speak to reporters.

Last year he walks past and he says, oh, if I stop, I'll be in trouble or there'll be fire or something like that. And then he stopped at Southampton and said, yeah, I'm really disappointed in the club for not starting a new contract with me.

And you've got De Bruyne then who comes in and says, yeah, I put everything to one side. I said I wasn't in the right frame of mind to discuss a contract while I was in this injury frustration. So hopefully when I'm better, we'll discuss it. But like it was me who said no. And that instantly takes like all the weight off the club or anyone else because it's not like why aren't the club offering them a new deal? What are they doing? It's like De Bruyne has diffused the whole

situation and things will come later on if they come they come and if they don't they don't but like it's very good diplomacy from de Bruyne for what is a sensitive subject because he is you know one of if not City's greatest ever player so you know it will be big when he goes but he is fighting that decline of like how long has he got left at the top

I think it's clever on his part as well. And we know that last time he sort of did the contract talks himself and got the data analysts behind him just to show what he offers. If he goes in now in contract talks, he's been injured for on and off for 18 months and City are going to be like, Kevin, we love you, but we need to rely on you. If he goes in in a few months and says, you know, look at what I've done for the last few months when I play, I am brilliant because that's what he is.

he's going in from a stronger position for negotiating a contract. That feels like a mixture of him sort of playing the timing right, but also respecting the bigger picture and knowing there's a lot of moving parts and,

He doesn't want to be going in while injured and doing that sort of thing. So I find it, yeah, the contrast between Salah is stark. Salah is someone who is injury-free and is playing very, very well and has that position of strength. So he is probably more entitled to play

If he's frustrated to put that on us. But I just found the timing really interesting because Liverpool have just gone eight points clear. The whole narrative, all the back pages are going to be Liverpool are on the way to the title, City are in crisis. And suddenly it's Liverpool are doing well, but what's happening with Mo Salah? Mo Salah is the story now. And they've got Real Madrid and City this week. Mo Salah is going to be the story, even if they win both.

And he scores. It's going to be, look how good he is. He needs a new contract and he's not happy with the club. I think De Bruyne's done quite well to take that pressure off and just give us an update, which is what we've been asking for, but also take the pressure off everybody and sort of kick the can down the road until a time that's right for him and the club as well.

I suppose the question is, I mean, the answer to the question of should Kevin De Bruyne get a new contract is an absolutely obvious one when he's fit because he's a brilliant player even when he's going to turn 34 at the start of his next contract. But given his injury troubles,

Can you see an argument for a different kind of contract? Maybe a bit of hesitancy on City's part. I'm thinking they didn't offer Sergio Aguero a contract after his injury problems. Ilkay Gundogan only got one year when he wanted two because of his age. It's going to be one of those situations, like you say, it's sensitive. And for everything he's done for the club, it still needs to be a business decision as well. You talk about sensitive. I don't think... I think, say, you've been too sensitive recently.

in recent years, like getting rid of Sergio Aguero was brutal. It was ruthless. He still felt like he had something to give. And so he said, no, we need to upgrade now and we will do. And they didn't even sign anyone that summer because it was 2021, wasn't it?

because they didn't get Harry Kane and they didn't get Haaland, but they got Haaland the next year and they upgraded. I don't think they've necessarily been enough in recent years with those kind of decisions. So if the time comes where they can say, right, well, we don't think De Bruyne can give what X can give, who we can buy, then they've got to make that decision. But at the same time, you see on Saturday the difference that he makes in

in 10 minutes. And this is on the pitch with like, you know, Phil Foden, PFA and Premier League player of the season and whatever. De Bruyne doing things that Foden just hasn't. And you think, well, it doesn't matter about his age. Like if you can play him and also kind of what he wants, if he's happy to play one game a week rather than two,

and that one game be better than anyone else in the division, absolutely fine. But I think he's at an age where he probably can't play 60 games a season with the injuries that he's had over the last two years. You know, you can't reward someone if they keep breaking down. And I think that goes for Kevin De Bruyne. It also goes for John Stones. Stones is at a point where he's just not been fit regularly for...

the whole of 2024, really. I think he's probably played more games for England than he has for City. And you look at it and think, right, well, if that's the situation, then you've got to be looking elsewhere. And City do have to be looking elsewhere in the next six months because they can't rely on De Bruyne's fitness. But if De Bruyne approves over the next six months that he's still kind of irreplaceable and got this position in the squad and fit enough to play, then you kind of, it's a no-brainer to keep him.

I think, yeah, it's that balance, isn't it? I'm not suggesting being Kevin Duboynov because he's been injured because the value when he is there is so obvious and he sort of transforms the team. It's just one of those moments

decisions that has to be made and at some point like Aguero, like David Silva, like all of the other players he will have to leave and he is getting to that point in his career. You just sense that there is something there and he sounded quite defiant that he feels like he isn't ready to step down from the top level just yet and I think Guardiola said when he decides he's

he's not ready to or he can't perform at that highest level then he'll let us know and he then came out and spoke to you guys and did not say anything of that he he feels frustrated I got the sense of of how the last year or so has gone and he just wants to be out there playing football and then everything else will take care of itself we spoke to him at West Ham at the start of the season and asked him the same thing about his contract and he'd mentioned Saudi Arabia in the summer and

uh sort of offered that as an opportunity that he might not be able to to turn down if the offer comes in and we said what would it take for you to sign a new contract or what when it comes to making your decision what what are you going to prioritize and he mentioned something about the project and it has to be right for his family and and that project has to be right and then today he says that pep staying does clarify some things in that he knows exactly what

the City project is going to be for the next year or two could that help persuade him to stay if there is that sort of temptation from Saudi Arabia or another league who are offering more money than City could do you think Pep Guardiola's future could be sort of

tempt him into one last contract at City? It has to because Pep's the best manager in the world but if at the same time if he's after a new challenge then yeah he's had about nine years with the same manager does he want something else? It's a reasonable question. I think Pep's decision to stay shows that yeah you can apply any kind of logic whatsoever and like it really comes down to them and their personal decision and what's best for them and their

their family like yeah he can leave and we can say oh nine years working with pet was a long time and he wanted something new or he could stay and we said well why wouldn't you want to stay working with peps so you know it the point that he makes is important because it does give clarity and no one's thinking oh is he going to be off next year is he going to be off the year after and it kind of removes the kind of last dance feel to it but

other than the, you know, it gives him the clarity to make whichever decision he wants to make. And you sense that, like all the other players, like David Silva and so on, they will get that chance to make that decision on their own terms. I think De Bruyne is different to Aguero and other players, maybe even Fernandinho, if you like, that

He gets to decide what he does and I think Guardiola has said as much as he in the past. He would love him to stay and end his career here but what he's given City is more than enough to earn that decision. It'll be interesting to see what happens. I also think maybe the Club World Cup at the end of the season, a bit like we were saying with Guardiola, could that be a perfect time to sign off and just have one last go at a tournament and become a world champion and then

You can see from his point of view, if he went to Saudi Arabia, it's probably a slower pace of life, less games. He can then have another crack at the World Cup with Belgium. There's a lot of things that you can see he has to consider. And he's not someone who rushes into anything. So I don't think he's going to rush into this one. And that's the thing he said consistently. He's not going to rush. So maybe questions like this don't help too much.

No, and I think, you know, it's a real cliche, like one game at a time, but football is like really...

don't think that far ahead and sort of don't think about the end prize because if you're Kevin De Bruyne if you're thinking like right well maybe I can go out in glory with the Club World Cup then like what if you don't you've put all your emphasis into like winning this tournament at the end of the season and then you and then I can go off on a high and then you don't you're on a real low and maybe you think oh I quite would have wanted to stay to get a chance to do that back and it's same with like you know all the charges and

uh things like that when it's like what's the impact on the charges on the players and it's like they don't really think about that it's not like sort of brushing it under the carpet it's just like they've got enough to deal with they don't understand complex financial and legal applications of it all so they don't try to they just sort of do what they're good at and try and win football matches so you know obviously you have to think a bit about the big picture but like

the fact that De Bruyne has said I don't care about contract talks until I'm back in a better way of playing kind of shows you that like they're not that fussed about everything having to be done in an orderly way that doesn't tally with what we want which is updates updates updates and decisions no no no he's not thinking about those there is he

No, but also we're normal and they're not. Like, we struggle to comprehend them because they're extraordinary at what they do. Like, they are, and that's why they're paid a lot more than we're paid. Because, like, they have this ridiculous and rare talent. And it's this mindset as well that they have.

they have that is just so difficult for people to to comprehend who don't have it so it is it really is just like another way of way of thinking i hope you're not saying that we're not extraordinary at what we do in uh well i'm not uh but i i wouldn't speak for you joe i'll uh i'll move on quickly instead of addressing that uh before we go firenard at home

has to be a win. There's no other option for City at this stage. I'm going to go 4-0 City or 4-0 Feyenoord. I think it'll be 4-0. I just don't know who for. I was speaking to a journalist in Holland and they were very, very pessimistic and Feyenoord are missing the top striker and the captain and the big midfielder. And it sounds like they have as many key players out as City. So even with City playing as they are,

I think they're a bit worried that there'll be a bit of backlash as well. So, I mean, the run's got to end sometime and this feels like a game that is presentable, but also in the context of the Champions League, if they want to qualify in that top eight, they've got to win this anyway because the two away games left are Juventus and PSG. They've got to be beating Feyenoord and Bruges at home to then put themselves in a position where they can slip up in maybe one of those and still have a chance, but it'll be...

I think, helpful ahead of Liverpool that they've got a game that they just have to win and is winnable. But it's not a give me. It's sort of a one that is sorted by any stretch. Yeah, it says a lot for the five-game losing run that we're not treating this as a home banker. Like, no game is a banker now. Yeah.

And yeah, they have to win and not to say losing five games has been good for them, but it is probably a better situation knowing they need to win than, for instance, think back to the Fulham game, say, where they didn't play well at all. They played pretty badly, but won and that sort of papered over a lot of cracks and they were still unbeaten, still on this winning run, but was a performance that had a lot of red flags in.

tomorrow night might still have red flags but they won't care as much if they win but it does put a different spin on it where they are just looking to build again because everything's over like the home run's over the unbeaten run's over they have to start again they're at the bottom of the mountain and they have to start climbing again

It's a good place to end. Let's see if they can get back up on that mountain tomorrow. We'll be there at the Etihad following it kick by kick on our live blog and everything that happens before and afterwards on the Manchester Evening News. Give us a follow on social media where you expect to find us. We will be there. Give us a like and a subscribe on where you're listening to us or watching us. And yeah, a comment if you would like and we'll see if we can get through some questions at some point. Yeah.

mainly why are City not winning games but hopefully we've given a little bit of an answer to that as well. Si, I'll let you get off to the training session ahead of the final game if we've not given you too much of a rush across the training ground. Thanks for joining us and yeah, we'll be back later in the week ahead of Liverpool.