City can STILL win the league | The Kyle Walker problem | Gundogan transfer mistake
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Offer valid for new app users only. Free medium drink reward upon registration. 14-day expiration. Terms apply. See DutchBros.com. Hello, welcome to the Talking City podcast coming to you from the Manchester Evening News. My name is Joe Bray, joined by Simon Bykovsky. And Simon, big development. City have not lost a game this week, which...

feels different to recent weeks where they've been playing every couple of days. They've had a much needed midweek off and I think it's been quite useful just to give everyone a bit of a step back, a reset, an opportunity to

think about how uh how the runs developed and and what can be done to to fix it and already we've seen a couple of new faces back in training ahead of the trip to aston villa so we'll have a chat about that and uh how the villa game could shape up and what is a very very important christmas period um but i think in the spirit of everyone sort of taking a step back and and

Trying to find out what's gone wrong. Let's have a little bit of a chat about not just what's gone wrong, but why it has gone wrong. Has the time offside given you any more sort of pearls of wisdom to just zone in on how it can be fixed? I think the derby changed things for me because I think sort of until that point, I was kind of like, it is all injuries. And...

as much as injuries have kind of triggered everything, you watch Derby and you did, I did come away thinking Guardiola has to be getting more than the players that he's got, regardless of injuries, regardless of whatever, like you can't have everyone play as badly as that. And as terribly as that. And sort of mindful that, you know, they put in a similarly shaky performance at Old Trafford two years ago and then won the treble five months later. But yeah,

You couldn't see it with that team then and you can't see it with this team now. So, yeah, there's a lot of things. But, you know, like you say, we did a story on Monday saying players have got Monday and Tuesday off and so many people were like, they don't deserve Monday and Tuesday off. Get them training. Why isn't Pep training with them? And you're like, well, I mean, fundamentally, they need to rest.

But also, it's probably a good idea to just say, just get away from this place and try and find some cheer elsewhere in your lives and then come back with a bit more spark because nobody had any spark on Sunday in the derby. Yeah, I would say that there was a lot of issues wrong at the derby at the end, but it was the same issue against Feyenoord and Juventus and they just looked absolutely drained mentally and physically drained. They had no answer whatsoever.

and they were expecting that second goal to come and that is an issue in itself but you can imagine just being in every day losing trying to

sort of cobbled together 11 players who can play the next game. Guardiola said nobody's fit. All the players are saying they're all carrying injuries. Kevin De Bruyne says there's the, you know, the injury room is more full than the sort of the dressing room at the moment in the training ground. You can imagine that weighs down and these are players who don't lose. They've won so much and it's new to them as well. So I think, yeah,

A, it was probably a wise decision from Pep to say, go and just rest and don't play football and don't think about football, probably for mental reasons as much as anything else. But also, that's exactly what he's done in the past. Whenever he's had a week like this without games, he's always said, go and just take some time away. So it's not doing anything differently, which I think is probably important as well.

Yeah, and it's the mentality that's gone more than anything. I mean, the physicality went first and then the mentality went. But, you know, this is a team who used to love playing every few days because it gave them a chance to bounce back. And they never really lost kind of more than one in one consecutively. Whereas at the minute, it just seems like they can't do anything and everyone knows how to beat them. And like, you know, we talked about it on Monday, but United were so bad.

so really like the worst United team I've seen in the Premier League era, I think. And never looked like being in the game for the first 87 minutes. And, you know, I mean, Thierry Henry absolutely battered them for the first goal and, you know, the equaliser. And rightly so, because they gave a team who didn't deserve it a chance back into the game. And, you know, you look at United getting battered at Spurs and like, you know, Spurs...

beat City 4-0 and that was like their only winning seven. Juventus City was their only winning six. United, I can't think of an English team they've beaten. I know they beat Pilsen in the Europa League, but, you know, it's one winning... Well, they came in one winning four in the league and, you know, beating at Spurs on Thursday. So, like...

every team going through a bad run loves playing City. They can't even get out of their slump, but they just enjoy themselves for 90 minutes, which is not at all how it should be playing City. And next up is Aston Villa, who are also on not a very good run. I think on one of your pieces earlier this week, you summed it up at the start. You said injuries have caused City to collapse, but they can't blame injuries for collapse. And that sort of adds to the

spark was losing all the players but you look at the pitch and I noticed it at Juventus the first goal goes in City were doing exactly what Pep says in terms of keep the ball play it simple not creating chances but following the game plan one mistake and then it leads to another goal and I was looking at the run I

of the 10 games of the 11 that they've lost, they've conceded twice in each one. And I think there's seven or eight examples where they've conceded two within 10 minutes. And that's just not a city.

trait at all. The one thing you can always say about City is that they've got a good defence and they can put mistakes behind them quite quickly. Haaland always talks about just getting on to the next chance as soon as he misses one, but it's so in their heads every time they make a mistake. And I understand why Guardiola is insisting that there's not a confidence issue or a mentality issue, but it's so clear that there is and you've got your captain and all your players coming out and saying as much and Bernardo saying it.

It's under-15s football and he's probably talking about the mentality and the confidence as much as anything else when he says that. I think of the goals they've conceded in this run, I think it's 25, I think. They've only responded with a goal of their own four times. So that's 21 times that they've conceded and not...

not had any answer. And again, that's another thing. Even at the start of the season, City were conceding first, but they were coming back and leading by half-time or hitting back straight away. And they've lost that. And you can point to whether it's too much reliance on Haaland or, you know, there's a lot of different issues, but it feels like they've lost that as well. And you can imagine why that would

leave them to sort of be without answers, if you like. I'm looking at Bernardo and Gundogan and players like that when they're talking. They're having a go at the team, but they also don't seem to know where the fix is coming from. Yeah, all I would say, I completely agree about the mentality and everything like that. All I would say is the fact that, you know, Gundog came out after the eventless game and said,

The team isn't built for this. We're making daft mistakes all over the place, whatever. And then Bernardo comes out and says, it's like an under-15s team. I don't think they'd be saying that if they thought it would have a detrimental impact on their teammates. I think it's still a strong enough group that they feel able to say that, not just to each other's faces, but to go out and say it publicly.

and feel like it's not going to send people spiraling, saying, oh, Bernardo Silva thinks I'm like an under-15s player. So I think the players still... It's like you said, the players still believe they can get out of it. They're just not sure how. But it's kind of like, at the minute, like insanity being repeating the same thing over again. They just don't seem to have that way out of what's going to happen.

I thought it was quite harsh on City's under-15s, to be honest, to assess it like that. But I think what I would also point out is Pep has said the only thing he will say about injuries now is give me my players back and we'll be fine. And that's true to a point, but he's also said we need more players because there's more games and more injuries. And I think Stefan Ortega came out this week and said we'll be fine when we have the players back. That's putting a lot of pressure on

on the new year when those players do come back. I think there is an issue of the players who've played quite a lot and have been overworked and are completely shattered. But it needs to be a collective thing. It's not just a case of when Rodri comes back or Oscar Bob or any of Nathan Ake and these players who've been out. I think it will need to be a collective thing. And if any club and squad can do that, it is City. And I think this week will be really important

for the time off they've had, but also the three or four days that they'll get on the training ground to just hone in on a couple of things. And like you say, Pep said, they're not built for, they've lost all the players who can run back and stop the transitions. So when they concede transitions, they look completely out of place and conceding lots of goals and teams are running through them really, really quickly.

So he's got to look at the players he has and find a way. And this is probably the first time he's been able to do that in terms of the players coming out and hammering each other. And I would...

I'm not sure we'll be able to see exactly what's happened behind the scenes on next year's documentary, but I would say this period will be so much more interesting than any of the other documentaries we've seen, which are all fascinating. But to see the winning team go to a losing team and how they deal with that, I...

I would love to be a fly on the wall at the moment because it sounds like Pep's done some shouting, he's done some arms on the shoulders, he's let other players talk. It would just be really interesting to see who's stepping up and who isn't and how he's changing from game to game with sort of carrot and stick and that sort of thing. Yeah, it is going to be interesting to see kind of...

how the squad reacts and what goes on. And like you say, they have been in this place a number of times. And, you know, I think back to the 2020-21 season when they were like really, really bad. And sort of, it was around this time of year, there started to be a few questions about would Guardiola carry on and things like that. And they won away at Southampton. It was a horrible game. They didn't play very well. And,

but they kind of got over the line and it wasn't much, but it was something and they built on that. And I think that is what they need. Like, you know, a few of us,

in the past few weeks have sort of said, oh, I can see it coming where City absolutely batter someone. You know, like a hammering is coming where they take all the chances, they don't concede. And I'm not sure we're there anymore, but I think we're at the point where they just need to win. And it looked like United was going to be that and it wasn't. But, you know, this squad is capable of

being at the bottom and building their way back up and you know the bottom at the minute is lower than it has been but they're still able to do it or they think they're still able to do it I think yeah I think that's

it will always come back to the fact that the players have that belief and have done it and you know Ruben Diaz was very defiant a week ago in Turin before the game where he was saying basically write us off if you want but we know we're good enough and this will be part of our legacy and I mean if they can turn this around he will be absolutely right and Ortega said that as well this week he said if they turn it around it could be bigger than any of the titles they've won so

I put on Twitter, because I'd had some interesting responses, I put it to a poll and got about 500 responses of what the main problem is. And it summed up that there isn't one main problem. I think injuries got about half.

half of the selections, but I got as many responses saying it's none of the above or it's all of the above. Injuries and confidence was the main selection, but some fans think the squad aren't playing for Guardiola and that ties into a couple of the things we've heard. And there's also a few rumblings about sort of going back two or three, four transfer windows of should they have replaced this player or prepared for a squad that is now ageing probably

quicker than we might have thought in terms of Gundogan doesn't look like the player he was, De Bruyne keeps getting injured, then you start looking a bit wider and John Stones, Bernardo Silva, more players like that are all over 30. Is there any of that or is that just hindsight? Because at the start of the season, we probably thought they'd done all right in the transfer window. Maybe they could have got a second striker or another defensive midfielder, but everyone was happy and in August they were winning games and

they were surprised about how the squad was surprised about how well they were playing and then they've gone and lost games and it's all a transfer issue and i'm not saying any answer is right or wrong but it feels like you can the more you look into it the further back you look and you can make more decisions in hindsight

Yeah, like, you know, there were plenty of City fans angry with or not happy with City's business. There were plenty of City fans who were not happy with City's business in 2023 when they won the league, in 2022 when they won the league, in 2020 when they won the league, and in 2020 when they won the league. You know, Omar Barada did a sit-down with us four years ago because he was kind of frustrated at how much negativity there was around the window. And they ended up winning the league and...

And, you know, that was the year when they missed out on Messi and various things. But with hindsight, you can say these things. But at the same time, you know, I think there's an argument that Guardiola has been too sentimental with players. But at the same time, these players are some of the best players in the world and in the whole Premier League era.

you know, good luck to whoever turns around to Kevin De Bruyne and says, yeah, you can't cut it anymore because a number of people have said it over the last few years and they've looked silly. You know, I saw something, something had been published yesterday online saying like, it's time for Pep to move on. He's not got it anymore. And you think that is something to say about, you know, a coach that has won more than anyone else could dream of and still wants to keep going. Um,

It's very, very easy to say, oh, these players have lost it. These players haven't got it anymore. You think back to that Arsenal game when they drew 2-0 and Rodri came off. That first 20 minutes, City looked like they were going to win 7-0. They were so good. They were so on it. And that was a team that was missing Kevin De Bruyne because he just got injured in the intergame. But the midfield was...

Rodri Gundogan and Bernardo. Now, Gundogan and Bernardo are two players who are seen now by a lot of people as too old and past it and can't cope. Like, well...

They weren't then. So what's changed? You know, it's the big question that City and City's recruitment team, who have paid a hell of a lot of money more than anyone else, I mean, like us, to talk about these things, have to answer is, are these players past it or have they got more life left in them? And as much as, you know, a rebuild will come,

in summer potentially as early as January. I think there will be more players that stay than people might think. Yeah, it's context, isn't it? Because I think there's questions that can be asked of how they dealt with the Gundogan extension at the time of when he was playing very, very well. A year on and everything that's happened is a long time. Compare that to how they dealt with Walker. You can ask those questions, but also you wouldn't have played those players as much as

as they have done in a normal season. Goodwin's the perfect case in point, though. Everyone, including us, said it was a mistake to let him go when they did. They let him go because they wouldn't offer him a two-year deal in time. They let him go. They won the league without him last year and got to the FA Cup final and nearly were a penalty shootout away from being consecutive Champions League chance.

And now they brought him back for this second, what would have been the second year of his deal. And everyone's saying his legs have gone. And it's sort of like, well, that decision last year, everyone thought was terrible. And now when he came back, everyone was like, oh, great. This is what we need. And now it's terrible again. It's just, it's hard recruitment. And I'm not making excuses for the recruitment team, because like I say, they paid an awful lot of money. But, you know, it's,

It's very hard to judge a transfer over a few months. And say Gundogan had stayed in that two-year period, you would have probably used him a lot more in the first year and then in his second year with a view to him ending his contract on a high, on his own terms, and everyone's happy. It's sort of gone the other way because of how it's worked and everyone was happy. There was barely any complaints when he came back.

When he came back, you're not expecting him to have to play at number six as the third choice on his own after playing about four months consecutively. If he plays once a week, I think he's a completely different player and he has a rest every other game or is rotated in and out or has someone next to him or has John Stones pushing up from defence. It's all a context. I think he's just someone who is...

had to play a lot and his current skill set is not suited to holding a midfield together, but that's absolutely fine because that's not what he was brought in to do. So I can see why fans are looking at the age of the squad and certain injury records, but I think zoning in on players like Gundogan probably isn't

It might be part of the issue that these people are looking for, but that isn't the issue. And then they might have to use that to inform future decisions with player contracts when they approach 30. But at the moment, I think, again, it all comes back to the injuries. It's not the reason they've lost those 10 out of 11 or not won in those 10 out of 11, but it all comes back to the injuries. This run doesn't happen without the injuries.

No, I think what we are seeing is that, you know, football doesn't owe anyone anything. And City have been extraordinarily good and exceptionally lucky in the way they've been able not just to replace a load of legends, but...

send them off on a high. You think of Kompany and Silva and Aguero. And Gundogan had the perfect City send-off and now he's back playing probably twice, three times as much as he thought he would be. And, you know, under three times as much pressure as he is. And people are, you know, talking about it as like the end of Gundogan. People are saying it's the end of Guardiola and they're saying like, hang on guys, like I've won so much.

And, you know, I don't deserve that my end is going to be, you know, the unprecedentedly bad run of form that City are going through. But, you know, that is football. You don't always get to go out on a high. What you have to do in those circumstances is scrap with every...

last bit you've got to try and keep going and to try and get the ending that you want but there's an awful lot of these players at the minute who are up against it to prove that they're still part of the current as well as the future. One other sort of bone that fans have to pick and that's the

clumsy turn of phrase is the sort of the captains and the leadership. And there's a lot said about Kyle Walker and he's not playing very well, probably being injured all the time. He's just making a lot of mistakes and he's not being in the right position because he's not the most popular of captains. The fact that we're not hearing from him is, is a stick being used to beat with beating with you wrote a piece, just sort of not necessarily defending him, but just putting that into context about they don't have to speak to us. They all lead in different ways. I'm,

I think you can see all of the captains reacting differently. You've got Diaz coming out and sort of insisting it's a good thing, if anything, that they've got this opportunity. And Gundogan and Bernardo have said their piece. Walker's definitely said his piece. He's just not done it recently. Kevin De Bruyne's one who's a bit more emotional on the pitch, but probably leads by example behind the scenes. Rodri isn't even playing, but he's in the tunnel at United and he's there.

it's it's not necessarily i don't think and i think this is another example of the week being just good to step back it's not necessarily an example is it just walker being a terrible captain and not doing anything

No. And, you know, it's just, it's just a different perspective and it's not, um, you know, we, we are bottom of the pile. So as journalists, as written press, you know, all the broadcasters who pay money for the competitions get more money than us. But it's like, I've just seen people being like, oh, Walker doesn't do anything. Ruben Diaz has done loads. He speaks to us. And it was like, well, actually Ruben Diaz hasn't spoken to us as written media, as you

you know, the interviews that you don't have to do in this run. He's spoken on TV very eloquently and he's done the Champions League press conference and whatever, but he hasn't gone out of his way to do a media interview, whereas Kyle Walker has. And that's not to say, oh, Kyle Walker's great because he's spoken to us and Ruben Diaz isn't, but it's just to say, you know, people, you know,

aren't necessarily how they are portrayed the thing is with walker everyone's saying why isn't he speaking those same people will absolutely hammer him for whatever he says and he's got a habit of putting his foot in his mouth and not saying the right thing and that's partly why he's not popular um but it's true the same people who say why isn't he talking want him to talk so they can absolutely batter him for it so he's in a bit of a no-win situation there

And again, you know, I remember speaking to Walker at the end of last season before the cup final. And he was, when there were talk of him going to another club or to the Saudi Pro League or whatever. And he was like, I want to stay next year. You know, I'm not bothered even if I don't play as much. And he's like, he's there. You know, he didn't expect to play as much as he's played. And so you have this...

amazing record without him this season and terrible record with him. And he's a large part of why they've got a terrible record with him because he's made it feel like at least one individual error every game he's played in that's led to a goal. But, you know, it's injuries why Pep's picking him and it's injuries why Walker's playing. And Walker's played through

injuries as well and again this isn't like a load of pr for walker but like all being well walker's nowhere near the team but all is far from well so he's playing in the team he's exacerbating the situation um that there's just kind of no no good way out it's like a more extreme version of the gundam situation it sums up every solution causes another problem doesn't it and

I think there are examples of Walker making one mistake and then making another to try and maybe make up for it or whatever he is trying to do. He's not playing well at all. And I can see why if you have a sort of pre-existing opinion on Walker and his leadership, then there are plenty of examples of how you can sort of

continue that that opinion and and make it go further but yeah it's um i mean all of the captains have spoken in various guises and uh it's hard to know what to say like yeah bernardo goes and says that and everyone says yeah he's spoken the truth but as we just said like there needs to be an answer as well and if walker comes out and says no i didn't speak but i've been trying to work hard behind the scenes if he has or hasn't i think that the the benefit of having these six captains

potentially at the moment there's a case of too many too many leaders but the benefit of having it is that you've got lots of different voices and uh if they can pick the right time to just not just say the right things but do the right things and and to spark a reaction i think that could help so um i've written stuff about walker not playing well and maybe not being the best uh captain and stuff at the moment but i think some other stuff might have

gone a little bit too far so I'll stop the conversation there because I'm sure we'll get pelters for daring to stick up for Kyle Walker but yeah we'll be back after a short break and we'll be discussing Aston Villa and what the squad could look like.

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Hello, welcome back to the Talking City podcast. Just before we get on to Aston Villa, a conversation I was having with some friends. It sounds ridiculous, but can City still win the league? And I'll preface this with Liverpool are dropping points a little bit. They're not looking good.

as strong as other sort of title favourites have done in the past. Arsenal are doing everything they can not to be in that title race. Chelsea are second, but are very beatable as City have showed. If City can get that right, I'm not saying they will win the league, but it feels like you can't also write them off at the same time. They are just as much as Arsenal doing what they can to give themselves no chance. But it still feels like a season where something can change. There's another twist. It doesn't feel to me like this is...

the twist that we've been... There's always a twist in one team that doesn't perform. I don't know. Am I being stupid and sort of talking myself into something that's never going to happen? I don't think you are because, you know, Liverpool haven't been very good since...

Since they beat City, I don't think they've won. Not in the league anyway. So there isn't that outstanding team. But I think you looked at the derby when they were going to win after 87 minutes and you thought, yeah, they're really putting themselves about to show that still there in the background. And then they lost. And you think,

Oh God, when are they ever going to win again? So a team that you're saying that about has no chance of winning the league, but until somebody puts them away, I think Trent Alexander-Arnold put it very well this week or last week when he said, you know, if you want to kill Man City in the title race, you've got to do it before Christmas. And Liverpool do. If Liverpool can increase their lead between now and the end of the year over the festive fixtures,

If it's double figures by then, then I think City are out of it. But if it's like between six and eight, then nobody can say for certain that City are out of it. And also, you know, you'd expect City to lose tomorrow because Aston Villa are a good team and Aston Villa have beaten much better City teams over the last few years. But if City win, then suddenly you're kind of like, oh, wow, they're alive. And it's not like this new...

we don't know what's going on is alive. It's like this bunch of players have won six of the last seven titles is alive. So I think they're still there, but every time they step on the pitch, their chance of winning the title gets smaller because they don't turn up. Yeah, I think it's that whole thing of the only team that can beat City to the title is themselves. And they are showing that emphatically this season. But if they can get the players back and get a run back,

you would back City to continue the winning run and other teams to not react well to that rather than the other way around. It's just how do you turn the mess that they've got at the moment that seems to have no end in sight into that run before it's too late? So I think that's where the question came from. I'm not going to put any money on City winning the league because they don't look like anywhere near a tight winning side. Yeah.

Liverpool 19-20 were out of sight by now because they were an outstanding team. There aren't any outstanding teams this season. And if Liverpool had beaten Newcastle and Fulham in the last two games, they would be out of sight. And that's sort of what you're looking at and it's sort of nagging doubt at the back of your mind that says maybe something else is going to happen. You talk about Liverpool sort of

moving on and kicking on over Christmas. They've got Tottenham away next, then Leicester at home, which they should win, West Ham away, United at home, and then they've got Tottenham in the Carabao Cup. And I think one of those Carabao Cup games is...

potentially before City or I might be thinking Arsenal's Carabao Cup game is before City. City have Everton, Leicester, West Ham, Salford in the Cup, Brentford away, which will be tricky, Ipswich. If they're going to get back into winning form, Everton, Leicester, West Ham, Salford, Brentford, Ipswich is one of the better runs that you can hope for. Yeah, yeah it is. But you would have said, you know, a struggling Crystal Palace and a bang average Man United team are

games where you can get back into form and they they haven't you know the the thing is i don't think any game at the minute for city is a gimme and that is the problem that they face and that's why they need to kind of go more than ever incrementally of like let's just get a win here and you know get get the feeling of winning back into us and then and then move on because you know the there's no game that you could look at and say yeah they'll definitely win that

Yeah, Everton at home on Boxing Day is normally an absolute gimme, isn't it? But Everton have done all right at the Etihad and City haven't recently. I mean, after that, you've got PSG, Chelsea, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, Spurs, Nottingham Forest, United, Champions League playoffs. That sort of period after January is going to be a difficult one. So I think the next few weeks are going to be

they were going to be important anyway christmas is always important this is normally the time where we see city put putting on one of those winning runs guardiola says he just wants to win the next game doesn't he he's not even thinking about a wider run i'm just looking at those fixtures and thinking if you're going to do anything this season it has to be it has to start now and i think even aston villa who aren't looking shaky and aren't as sort of formidable as they have been in the last couple of seasons potentially due to the champions league and playing those extra games

It's really simple to say, but it is sort of a must-win. Every game is must-win now and they can't afford any more of these slip-ups. I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make on that because it is so simple. It's just win the next game. But you look at those pictures and think it's going to be a make-or-break period. Yeah, well, I mean, every game that they don't win is a game that the chances of winning the league get less and less and the chances of

a top four struggle become more and more. You know, they need to box those small targets. So it's like, oh, right, we're not in a top four fight anymore. We're in a top three fight. Right now we're in a top two fight and now we're ready to battle for the title. They might not get to that top one, but like that's the way they've got to go about it. Because yeah, you know, to borrow an analogy from Guardiola, they're at the very bottom of the mountain right now.

I suppose if they are in a top four fight, which they definitely are, to get at least one point against Aston Villa, who are only two points behind. So City are fifth with 27, then there's Bournemouth and there's Aston Villa with 25. You need to be focusing on that, don't you? As much as we talk about titles and Kansas City still do it, they've got to look at that. And I mean, Pep always says the main target of each season is top four qualification. And that is at risk at the same time, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, it really is. You know, in the same way that like Champions League qualification is very much at risk. They are in a real scrap just to get the playoffs because they can't buy a win. So, you know, if they're getting beat by everyone who faces them in the Premier League, they're not in the sort of form that we'll get in the top four, even the top seven. I think there is some qualification in the sense that like...

They are still fifth. It's not like they're 15th. But they just really need to drastically stop that slide. They can't buy a win. Can they buy a player in January? I'm sure you covered that the other day. There is money to spend. City are looking at maybe doing what they don't do, which is enter the January market. But it doesn't look like it's going to be the easiest market. And especially if clubs know, A, there is money to spend and B, City are desperate.

it's not really an environment City like doing business in? No, it's not, but it's an environment that they might have to do business in. You know, I wrote this morning, like the good news for City is that Guardiola's staying until 2027 and like he, people believe he is staying so he can rebuild the team. So if they're going to spend in January as much as it would be kind of a panic, it can be the start of the rebuild, just bringing the rebuild early because it's,

Guardiola was there for another two and a half years and there's plenty to work with in that squad that will be there for the next two and a half years. So you're not just kind of saying, oh God, how do we save this season? You're saying, right, we want to win the next two or three Premier Leagues. These are the signings we're going to make to start that.

I think they need to look ahead as well and you might not have De Bruyne next season, you'll have Rodri but you've got to accept that he probably won't be the same player or he will need time to get back into it. I'm looking at how De Bruyne's reacted from his long lay-off and

If you could sign a defensive midfielder now, it might cost you a lot of money. But given that defensive midfielder time, not necessarily to say come in, improve us right away and win us a title, but just to get used to it so that next year we can win the title. I think that could be the potential kind of signing they're looking for and would make spending a lot of money in January more palatable because you

it's a player for long term I'm thinking when they signed Laporte they needed that defender they identified them they were there and he went on and played a key role in many seasons to come so I'm

I think that would be the best way to look at it rather than we need a new striker, we need a right-back, we need a holding midfielder to improve us immediately because I don't think that's going to happen. And if there's fans hoping for two or three signings and instant impacts, that isn't really how City transfers work. No. And I mean, to go back to an earlier discussion, I'm old enough to remember when Rodri's signing was a big mistake and when fans...

reacted with fury every time Rodri and Gundogan were named in the same midfield because how on earth can City win games with these two in midfield and no pace? So it might not be a signing that has an instant impact. It might not be sort of the signing that everyone expects or, you know, a name that everyone expects it to be. But, you know, that's worked for them in the past when Koulibaly was kind of the

the big one they were chasing all summer and then they ended up with Diaz and Diaz joined four years ago and still hasn't lost a Premier League but there will be more scrutiny on whoever comes in than there usually is with City signings because it's not players who are sort of adding to a winning machine it's players who are coming into a team to sort it out

So there will be pressure on these new signings and there will be a lot of pressure on City to act in January because we've now had nearly two months of Guardiola trying to find a solution and failing. So at what point do you get an external solution in?

At what point does Pep say, I can't do it with these players that I have? Which again, he's done before. They did it with Akanji when they signed Akanji in the last week of the window. So I can't think there's many people at the club who have watched the last two months and thought, yeah, we'll be fine without signing in January. But doing is easier than seeing and saying.

I suppose it's very rare for City to sign a player and that player be needed to act immediately. They went a season without a central defender and then, like I say, signed Diaz and luckily he did hit the ground running. They had a season without a striker and then signed Haaland and there's those examples, but City will...

doing quite well without them they've not been in this situation where they've got to sign someone to instantly improve them so I think that'll be an interesting dynamic and they might whether it's even to sign a fringe player but they what time will they get in the new year to to get up to speed because when it's in the new year there's games every week and you've got to be winning and multiple competitions and it's uh I think it'll be a different uh a different situation for City to

but also integrate a new player. And it's very hit and miss with players who come in and do well instantly at City. It doesn't mean that their career at City is ever off. Rodri is that prime example and Gio Cancelo was another one and Bernardo Silva. But they need someone to come in and do well quite quickly. So I think it's going to be an interesting month and also where they prioritise the resources and resources

Do they look at a Rodri backup or do they look somewhere else? And there's countless areas of the team where you could argue need support. So it's going to be an interesting one. Let's look quickly ahead to Aston Villa. Manu Akanji is back in training. John Stones was going to come on against United and then City threw it away. So he stayed on the bench, I believe.

the defense is getting a little bit better rico lewis is back from suspension do you see many many changes to the starting lineup or are we still in the situation where there's only 12 or 13 players who can play really um i think you would see lewis come in um or back in and and maybe that sees walker out um

it's still, you know, stones in a kanji, it's still a risk to play, to start either of them, I would say, but maybe it's a risk worth taking to sort of shore up that, that defence a little bit, but other than that, it's, yeah, there's still not very much, I mean, I got a

an email in advertising for Jeremy Dock who's the face of Nike something talking about you know a player at the top of his game known for his precision and pace and thinking Christ when was that when was that written not to have a go at Dock but he was the one in the derby who sort of like

looked so threatening and did so little with that threat, but we've seen Savino do exactly the same. We've seen Foden do the same. We've seen Grealish do the same. We've seen De Bruyne do the same, really. I've rarely seen De Bruyne waste as many balls as he did in the derby. So that's the thing. It feels like there just aren't the solutions to choose from. They're not solutions, they're just other options.

similarly bad options at the minute because everyone's so out of form so you know it we have not been privy to the training sessions this week and Pep Guardiola has so you would back the 11 that Pep picks because you would like to think he's picking the players who are impressing the most in training yeah I think I'd maybe argue for Kovacic to come back if he's fit I think

It's not a perfect solution, but it's better than an overworked Gundogan. And even with a week off, I think as we've discussed, Gundogan needs a rest. I would maybe caution against bringing Stones back because that's exactly what they did at Aston Villa last year and played him in defensive midfield and it didn't work at all. And City lost the game and everyone was thinking, oh my goodness, City have lost the game. This never happens. And what happens now? And it's...

How City would long to be in that situation where they lose the first game in December. Yeah, I think Doku, Grealish, Foden, Savinho, there's no standout in-form candidate at the moment. Has Grealish started at Villa Park since he came to City? Because I don't think he has. Could be a potential factor. I know he didn't on the first...

I don't think he did last year. I think he was injured or rested for... No, I'm not sure he has. But then, you know, I kind of go back to if he hasn't started at Villa Park, it's because he hasn't deserved to. And does he deserve to start this year at Villa Park? Um,

I think if he does, you're saying that he does on the basis that the last person who was in the team ahead of him doesn't deserve to start either. So it's never felt like, oh, yeah, you need to start Grealish on merit at Villa Park, which, again, is kind of a sign of where City's troubles are at.

i think the only other team selection insight i've got is bernardo is one game away from a booking and it is boxing day the game after this so uh will bernardo get a booking and have an extra nice christmas day or will he behave himself and be available for for everything i just love all those articles these are the players who are one game away from a booking and uh looking at a christmas day christmas day uh boost for themselves but of all the players i don't think bernardo is one of those

Yeah, yeah. Well, it is one of those things like if you're not playing Bernardo so that you can be reassured that he's available for the heavy hitting Boxing Day game against Everton, then, you know, you've kind of already lost the game, the season, your life, basically. Like you just can't make those kind of decisions. They've got to go into it thinking that, you know, everyone will perform as they should.

I think he's got another couple, two, three months until the cut-off. It's not immediately where you're just waiting for the cut-off for bookings. It's probably going to happen at some point where Bernardo misses a game. So, yeah, I think there's probably other more cynical players who've calculated that booking risk, but I don't think Bernardo will be one of them. You've suggested over the last 45 minutes that you don't think City will win at Villa Park. Would that be your prediction?

Yeah, they've offered nothing over the last six weeks to suggest they will win at Villa Park. So I don't... The players could win, but the form that they've shown for the last 11 matches suggests that I don't think they will win. I'm going to go unconvincing 1-0 win for City because I don't think Villa are in great form either and I think they can...

scrape a Harlan penalty or something like that that's controversial on VAR but it's not a happy hunting ground in recent years is it Villa Park it's been quite difficult for City even with a bit of rest behind them I think it's probably not one of their games they would have picked No, no I mean you know bold of you to predict a clean sheet given how easy they've been to play for him That's more what I think of Aston Villa's form than City's defenders

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, yeah. You know, Villa are probably, you say they're bad form, but they're probably like the best team they'll play in the next 10 matches or something like that. So it is a, you know, a ground where they're not used to winning. So it is tricky. But this is the situation. Yeah, maybe. I'll stick with it, but

Not one of my more convincing predictions. But, you know, City have to break the mould at some point. And so Villa would be a pretty good place to do it because, again, it would give that sort of they've beaten a good team rather than lost to a bad team.

Absolutely, and we'll be there at Villa Park. I believe we will be back next Monday for a debrief on whatever happens and see if City can end that sort of terrible run and get back to winning ways. Although we did think they'd ended that run against Nottingham Forest and then it got worse and worse and worse. Thanks for joining us. Give us a follow on social media. Give us a comment.

and a live where you're listening to this podcast. If you don't listen on Monday, have a good Christmas, but we will be back after the Aston Villa game to look at that and look ahead to the Everton game. Thanks for joining us.