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Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Did you do anything to hurt her? Nah, I would never fucking kill anybody. Just like fucking... My girlfriend just got murdered and you're fucking blaming me for it, dude. What the fuck? Hello and welcome...
This is Season 10, Episode 241 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. Well, we hope you've been enjoying our new show, Sword and Scale Nightmares. That show will be coming to our Plus platform sometime soon. We hope pretty soon.
But there's a lot of, you know, stuff we got to do in the background to make that happen. It doesn't just happen. It's a platform we built from scratch. So everybody just calm down, please.
In the meantime, you can sign up for Plus. It's at swordandskill.com slash plus. And for just a small amount per month, you get to support your favorite show and get all kinds of exclusive content you won't find on the ad-supported free feed. Head on over to swordandskill.com slash plus to find out more. We'll see you there. And let's get started, shall we?
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So visit your local Toyota dealer and check out amazing national sales event deals when you visit buyatoyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. There's a common phrase among homicide detectives that goes a little something like this. It's always the husband. While this phrase is usually said in jest, its broader meaning is that when a woman is found to be murdered, the culprit is
is almost certainly her current or former intimate partner. The main reason this phrase exists is because statistically women are much more likely to be killed by their partner or their ex than by anyone else. According to FBI data, about 63% of adult female homicides are committed by current husbands and boyfriends or ex-husbands and ex-boyfriends. While that is the majority,
It means that 37% of all other female homicides are committed by someone else. And unfortunately, that's a pretty big number. Especially when you consider that more than 3,000 women are murdered in the United States every year. It also means that the phrase, "It's always the husband," is wildly inaccurate. Still,
When a female murder case is investigated, the husband, boyfriend, or ex often becomes the center point of the investigation. They become the main suspect and any kind of circumstantial evidence can make them seem more guilty than the day is long. Statistically speaking, they are probably guilty. But there are many, many murder cases where the current or ex-partner is simply not to blame.
About 100 miles west of Boston sits the historic city of Chicopee, Massachusetts. Perhaps best known for being home to the largest Air Force base in the United States, Chicopee is also the second largest city in western Massachusetts, with a population of over 55,000 people. This sprawling city is no stranger to crime or murder.
In March of 2013, a young Chicopee man made a bizarre phone call to 911. After explaining a very strange plight to the operator, the young man was ultimately transferred to a homicide detective. "Hi, would I get in trouble for turning over a friend?"
According to the caller, he had recently received a shocking email from a friend. In that email, his friend confessed to murdering a young woman in 2011. He said,
Did he say where he stabbed her? And the girl, what did you say her name was?
Her name is Amanda. I couldn't pronounce the last name. It's Classy. Back in August of 2011, about two years before this 911 call was placed, 20-year-old Amanda Plass was living by herself in a small apartment in Chicopee. At some point during the latter half of August, Amanda invited her friend Cairo to her apartment.
You visited her that day and you had not seen her for a while, correct? That is the absolute truth, yeah. And when you saw that day, how did you guys ultimately hook up? On Facebook. She was like on board or whatever and I was like, me too. And then I think we did the number thing because I don't even think I had her number. Because her and I didn't really not ever lost touch, but I guess you could say we weren't ever close friends. Like I didn't have her number before this day.
Cairo's meetup with Amanda that day was an impromptu late morning get together. And according to Cairo, when she arrived at Amanda's apartment, she didn't notice anything that caught her attention or anything that seemed unusual. You saw Amanda outside? I saw Amanda outside.
I didn't see anything suspicious or that I would have noticed to be out of the ordinary. Something that she had told me of the back was someone was maybe calling at her while she was outside, whether it was just someone being an ass, hey mommy or whatever. Aside from an annoying cat call, Cairo explained that Amanda didn't mention any specific problems that she had that morning. And after Cairo arrived, the two young ladies went inside Amanda's apartment and
where they smoked some weed. After lighting up, Amanda and Cairo quickly started to bond, and Amanda began talking about her new boyfriend, Seth. So, her and Seth were very open about their relationship, and she was like, oh yeah, we, what was it, smoked, sexed, and showered, because she was telling me about their little morning together, and oh yeah, sexed and showered, so I had known that she had already showered with him.
Among the boyfriend chitchat, Cairo and Amanda also talked about life in general. Topics like family, work, and personal interests all came up. The conversations that you had with her up there about your lives. Yeah, yeah. It was really, it was like great to see her. I hadn't seen her in so long. We had been acquaintances for...
Yeah.
Amanda Lynn Plass was born in December of 1990 in Chicopee and was well known for her bright and bubbly personality, her big green eyes, and her natural brunette curls. As a young woman, Amanda was self-sufficient and seemingly on top of all the things
that are required to make an independent life possible. She had her own place, her bills were paid, and she was able to make ends meet by working full-time as a waitress at a nearby Friendly's restaurant. In addition to being a responsible young adult, Amanda was also artistic, and she had a passion for drawing, painting, and playing guitar. She also really enjoyed going to music festivals with her friends.
So after this day, we hung out. I was like, oh, we got a lot in common. Like, you go to music festivals. You don't quit. Like, you love art. You love music. And we started talking about life and Seth and what she was doing and what she'd been doing the past summer and music festivals and life's crazy. That was basically what we talked about. And then we kind of talked about her family life a little bit. So she then told me her brother's in the military. Super proud of him. Older sister kind of lost touch because the sister had a baby.
Amanda Plass was vibrant, attractive, charmingly quirky, and extremely personable. She was a free spirit, a modern-day hippie, perhaps born in the wrong era.
Amanda was also determined to live her life in her own way and was actively doing all the responsible things needed to make the lifestyle that she wanted a reality. During her visit to Amanda's apartment, Cairo was a bit surprised by how open Amanda was with her. But Cairo was also impressed by it and she welcomed their overt and intimate conversation.
At some point during the visit, Amanda got a bizarre and frankly pretty haunting phone call. But Amanda handled it in typical Amanda fashion. She received a phone call, didn't know who it was, didn't know the number.
Just bubbly old Amanda. How's it going? I can hear you breathing. You're not saying anything. Just like being a goofball. Literally just giving whoever it was just to make them feel like a weirdo, I guess. And she's like, well, what are you doing? And then like hung up, got off the phone. And then she kind of talked to me a little bit about, yeah, I kind of sometimes get these weird calls from my stalker.
Apparently Amanda had a stalker who would frequently call her but never said a word and only breathed heavily at Amanda before abruptly hanging up. I used to think that kind of thing was an 80s TV trope. That didn't really happen, but I guess I was wrong. It was pretty creepy stuff, but every time it happened, Amanda shrugged it off and went about her merry way. Perhaps even more frightening...
Amanda had recently returned from a two-day music festival. And when she arrived back home, she found that her apartment had been broken into and burglarized. Did she express any problems at her apartment? There had been a previous break-in. I really can't recall that, but I know for a fact that the apartment had been broken into before. And they did take weed. One of the most notable things about this break-in was...
Not much was taken. Aside from a few mostly cheap items, the burglar only stole Amanda's secret stash of marijuana, and they seemed to know exactly where to find it. This suggested that the thief had likely been inside Amanda's apartment before, and that they weren't some random person off the street. They were probably someone that Amanda knew, and probably someone that Amanda considered to be a friend.
In any case, after Amanda told Cairo about her new boyfriend, her family, her stalker, and the recent break-in, Cairo left, leaving Amanda plenty of time to get ready for work.
So what do you mean by getting ready for work? What exactly was she doing?
Nothing. Just letting me know that she had to start getting ready for work. I think the mental preparedness that you give yourself. Although Amanda had her own place, she didn't have a car and would usually depend on her friends to drive her to work. For the past four or five days, Amanda's boyfriend Seth had been giving her the rides that she needed. So you say you've known Amanda for a week? I've known her a week. I met her last Friday. Okay.
I've known her, like, she's, I've been to school with her and everything. I just never, we never hung out, hung out with, I guess I've known her for life, hung out with her for the first time Friday. Seth and Amanda went to high school together, but they didn't really start dating or really didn't know much about each other until well after graduation. In fact, when Seth was questioned by the police, he had only been dating Amanda for about a week. So you slept at Amanda's last night? Yes.
Did you sleep the whole night at her house last night? Yeah, she gets out of work at 11, 12 o'clock at night. Any problems last night at all? She fucking was so happy. So you guys just talked last night? What do you mean? Did you guys stay up a while or did you go right there and went to bed? I had sex, ate some food.
According to Seth, on August 25th, 2011, he slept at Amanda's apartment, just as he had done the last few nights. The next morning, Seth and Amanda woke up, had sex, and took a shower together. Then Seth headed off to work. What did you work at today? Springfield Parkside Street. What did you do there? Roofing. You do roofing? Yeah. What time did you work today?
They probably left her house at like 8.30 this morning. The typical routine for Seth and Amanda, or at least the brief routine that they seem to have established in the last week or so, was that Seth would go to work in the morning, and when he was finished with a shift, he would return to Amanda's apartment to take her to work. Then after Amanda finished her work shift, Seth would pick her up and they would go back to Amanda's apartment. On this particular day, however...
Seth called Amanda to let her know that he would not be able to get her to work on time. When was the last time you talked to her? 4 o'clock. You talked to her every day? Yes. Did you see her every day? Every time after work, I'd go there and bring her to work, hang out when we can, pick her up for a minute, sleep together. How did it come that you talked to her at 4 o'clock? What? How did it come that you talked to her at 4 o'clock? I called her to tell her I was working late.
Seth had to work late, which meant that Amanda would need to find a ride to the Friendly's restaurant with someone else. According to Seth, Amanda told him that she was able to find someone who could give her a lift, and Seth promised to visit Amanda at her job after he got off. To Seth's surprise, when he arrived at Friendly's later that evening...
Amanda wasn't there. So you went to Amanda's work at Friendly's? Yes. Did you expect to see her there? Yeah. That's why I just went in. I sat down and I texted her. I was like, I'm at the front desk. And I didn't see her. I didn't get a response. And I asked one of her friends that I could go there and pick her up. And one of the kids that works with her, I talked to him. And I was like, where's Amanda? She's an hour and a half late. So the kid said she was an hour and a half late. Mm-hmm. What'd you do? I left.
Again, Amanda was an especially responsible young woman. For her to not show up to work was pretty out of character. Despite this, Seth claimed that he didn't immediately become concerned.
Instead, he assumed that Amanda had simply fallen asleep and was missing her work shift by accident. Seth also claimed that he went to his grandma's house to pick up some fresh clothes and drove to Amanda's apartment.
where he planned to wake Amanda up and take a shower. When Seth arrived at Amanda's apartment, he supposedly knocked a few times and didn't get a response.
He then noticed that Amanda's front window was broken, so Seth decided to enter her apartment. According to Seth, Amanda's front door was locked, but the lock itself was pretty flimsy, and anyone with even a small incentive to break in could easily bypass it by sliding something into the doorframe, which is exactly what Seth claimed happened.
Betty did. You walk into that little entryway. What do you see when you first walk in there? As soon as I walked in, the cat walked out. The cat walked outside? And then there's that doorway to the kitchen. So you walk into the kitchen. What do you see when you walk into the kitchen? I saw red. What do you mean you saw red? I saw, like, red all over the floor, and I saw her foot. So you went in the kitchen. As soon as you came in, you saw red all over the floor. Is that blood you saw? Mm-hmm. I almost thought she was, like, playing.
Seth told the police that when he walked into Amanda's kitchen, he learned why Amanda had not shown up to work. According to him, he found Amanda on the floor, lying in a pool,
of her own blood. Her throat was slit and she was completely unresponsive. Now you said that you checked to see how she was breathing. How did you do that? You said you got to stay with us. I put my ear on her chest. I felt her chest see if it was moving. I tried blowing into her mouth once and it just kind of like blew right through her. I...
Through his sobbing, Seth explained that he tried to render first aid to Amanda and performed CPR, but when Seth blew into her mouth, his breaths came back at him through the open slit on her throat.
There was nothing that Seth or anyone could do for Amanda. She had been brutally stabbed to death and had likely been dead for several hours before Seth found her. After finding Amanda's body, Seth called 911. When the police arrived, they found Seth on Amanda's front porch. He was sobbing and lying in a fetal position. They then found Amanda's butchered body on the kitchen floor.
of her apartment. What followed was an intense and often frustrating murder investigation that led homicide detectives to follow several leads, some of which involved a new boyfriend, an angry ex-boyfriend, and even a jealous ex-girlfriend. In the end, the brutal slaying of Amanda Plass would go unresolved for two years, but eventually
A hidden clue inside Amanda's apartment would lead detectives to a culprit that no one ever suspected.
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On the night of August 26th, 2011...
20-year-old Amanda Plass was found stabbed to death on the kitchen floor of her apartment. Amanda lived by herself in Chicopee, Massachusetts, and supposedly her body had been discovered by her new boyfriend Seth, after Seth first went to her job at a local Friendly's restaurant and couldn't find her. Amanda's immediate family members included her mom, her dad, her older sister, and a younger brother.
As to be expected, when news of Amanda's murder reached her family, Amanda's mom took it especially hard. Soon after Amanda's death,
Her family organized a large vigil and funeral in her honor. Meanwhile, the Chicopee Police Department continued investigating the crime. And the first person they focused on, of course, was Amanda's boyfriend, 20-year-old Seth Green. No, not that one.
When detectives processed the crime scene, they found several things of note. First, when Amanda was found, she was wearing a bra, her work pants, and socks.
She was clearly in the process of getting ready for work when the murder happened. And next to Amanda's body was a bloody shoe print that must have been left by the killer because Amanda wasn't wearing shoes. Based on their analysis of the shoe print, the police determined that the killer was either a woman that wore a size 9 or a man that wore a size 7. Also, the police found that one of Amanda's front windows had been broken.
but they later determined that this was not how the killer gained entry into the home, because the window had been broken from the inside. More than likely, the killer came in through the front door by picking its flimsy lock, the back door which was found unlocked, or Amanda had simply invited them in. Finally, and certainly most glaringly, this murder was extremely brutal.
A large dent was found on Amanda's refrigerator, which almost certainly happened during the struggle. Amanda fought for her life, but she was overpowered, and the dent on the fridge was made by Amanda's head when she was thrown into it. Also, Amanda was found lying in a pool of her own blood and had basically been butchered to death with a very sharp knife. She had 15 knife wounds on her body.
seven of which could have been fatal and one of which was a long deep slit across her throat. Based on this and based on the fact that nothing appeared to be stolen, the police theorized that this was not some random home invasion or burglary. Someone was very angry. Someone had it out for Amanda.
And more than likely, it was someone that Amanda knew. Is there anything that you could think of that you didn't tell us that happened today? Any problems with you and Amanda at all? I don't know. We were fucking amazing. Like, I met her like a week ago and I was already falling in love with her. Like, that's like, I don't know. Like, we've had such a good time together. Like...
According to Seth, his and Amanda's relationship was at an early stage where everything was all sunshine and butterflies. They had just started to get to know each other and were quickly falling in love. Here's the problem I have. You say that you just met her a week ago whenever we ask a question. Like, oh, I hardly knew her, I only knew her a week ago. But then on the other hand, you tell us that you loved her. Yeah. So, I mean, which one is it? That doesn't happen? Is that unheard of to you? Yeah.
I don't know. She was an amazing girl. I've never connected with anyone like I connected with her. And I'm pretty sure she felt the same way. Throughout this interview with Seth, the detectives frequently stepped out of the interrogation room, leaving Seth alone. And every time they did, Seth sobbed uncontrollably. Maybe you might help me, you know?
Seth was clearly emotional, but the detectives weren't convinced that his tears were genuine.
Given that he had only known Amanda for a week, his tearful sob seemed over the top and manufactured. Either that or Seth wasn't crying for Amanda. Maybe he was just crying for himself. Something else that bothered detectives was Seth's actions after he had discovered Amanda's body. Seth claimed that he tried to perform CPR on Amanda and when that didn't work, he called 911. So far, so good.
But then, as he was on the phone with the 911 operator, Seth took the time to hide some marijuana pipes that were lying around the apartment. How many pipes? There's like probably four on the table. Hey, let me ask you a question. You know, if my wife, girlfriend, whatever, was in there and had a throat slit, one of the last things I'm going to worry about is cleaning up.
Why did you take the time to do that? I was freaking out with what he wanted me to do, you know? I don't know. I didn't know what the fuck to do. You take the time to pick up four little balls that mean nothing when you know that your girl that you love is dead. I guess, yeah. Seth's explanation for hiding weed paraphernalia amidst a brutal homicide was that he was just accustomed to hiding that kind of stuff anytime there was a chance that cops might show up.
He claimed he was operating on pure instinct, which I guess kind of makes sense. Even so, it is a strange thing to do when the woman you supposedly love is lying in a pool of her own blood just a few feet away. Something else that caught the attention of detectives was the blood they noticed on Seth's pants, along with what appeared to be a deep cut on his right hand.
How did the blood get on your pants? When I kneeled next to her. Huh? When I kneeled next to her, when I came in. Which one would you get? This. Right here. Like this? Yeah. I don't know. It's been a couple days now. Don't poke at it. It's got dirt in it from your roofing too, so it's not... Yeah. I just cut myself stabbing her or something. Hmm? It's not like I just cut myself stabbing her or something. I don't know if that's who you're referring to, but it's not. I just asked, I saw it. Yeah, I know. It's your job to...
Seth claimed that he got blood on his pants when he knelt next to Amanda's body and that the cut on his hand was work-related. Again, this all made sense and was pretty probable. But then came the inevitable line of questioning about where Seth was when Amanda was killed. And Seth's alibi was more than just a little suspect. Did he stay on the job all day? Yeah. I was on that last time to go get materials a couple times.
According to Seth, he was working the entire day. But as a roofer, some of his responsibilities included driving his work van to various places to pick up supplies.
Seth admitted that he had made some of these supply runs by himself, which meant no one could vouch for his exact whereabouts throughout the day. Even worse, some of his travel put him within walking distance of Amanda's apartment.
You were pretty close to home at that point, were you? Yeah, it's right next to her in her house. Normally I come in and see her too, and I go and fucking get materials, I stop at her house. Is that something common you do when you go to get materials, you just stop at the house really quick to see her? No, it just happened a couple times. So between Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, those four days when you're making deliveries, two of those days you stop by the place, right? Why didn't you go by today?
because we were finishing up the job and they rushed me and they've been getting pissed at me because I've been coming in late and I take forever when I go places. They bitch at me for that. Seth told detectives that during his supply runs, he would sometimes stop at Amanda's apartment to say hi. But on the day of the murder, he coincidentally decided against it, mainly because his boss had recently given him shit for taking too long.
Once again, Seth had an explanation that made sense and afforded him plausible deniability. At some point today, when you were making those deliveries, you took your car. Your car was at our apartment. Did I? Yeah. No, it wasn't. It wasn't? No. You sure? Positive. You didn't take your car at all? No, my car stayed at the job site. My car was not at that apartment. It was there at 9 this morning before I left, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Even after detectives pressed him, Seth maintained that he never went to Amanda's apartment during his work shift.
And as his interview came to an end, the cops did what they usually do in this kind of situation. They asked Seth what he thought had happened. What do you think happened to her? I don't know. She was so fucking happy. Like, maybe her ex-boyfriend was mad that she was talking to me. She said her ex-boyfriend was abusive. She's such a fucking happy girl. I don't see her having problems with anyone. The only thing I can think of is her boyfriend.
Before Amanda started dating Seth, she was seeing one of her co-workers, 21-year-old Jesse Columby. Jesse worked with Amanda at Friendly's, and even though they had hooked up, they never declared themselves to be boyfriend and girlfriend. They had a short fling, and Amanda didn't seem very interested in pursuing things beyond that. Jesse, however, clearly wanted something more. You told us that you guys had a relationship. Yes.
And it wasn't serious, so to speak, so it kind of broke off. Yeah. But we also found out you have been sending a lot of text messages this past weekend, correct? Yeah, I did. I texted her. She texted me on Thursday. So I've seen her. This past Thursday? Yeah, the day I seen her at work. Okay, yeah. So on... And you didn't tell us about that. So on... Oh, I thought I did. I said that was the last time I talked to her. On Thursday? Yeah. The day before she died, right? Yeah. Yeah.
During Jesse's police interview, there are a few moments where he suspiciously seems to pass the buck. In contrast to Seth's police interview, Jesse didn't need to be prompted or asked what he thought happened to Amanda. Instead, he went out of his way to offer up a few theories.
And who's that?
The D name that Jesse mentioned was in reference to something that was written on a dry erase board in Amanda's apartment. Scrawled in haphazard writing next to some of Amanda's doodling was a sentence. It read, Dennis was here. 8-11-11 The date next to Dennis' name was
was only two weeks before Amanda was killed. Eventually, police learned that this Dennis person was Amanda's pot dealer. So, where did you meet her? I met her by Sammy's out there in Teneshi. And then she comes in and she's like, you know what? Can you pass it to me? I was like, you know what? I can't. I can't. How long? Like,
Dennis admitted that he supplied Amanda with weed and that he had been to her apartment once. Dennis explained that when he went there, he brought along his girlfriend.
They met up with Amanda and smoked weed on her back porch. According to Dennis, his girlfriend wasn't exactly thrilled that Dennis had made a new female friend. And not long after she was introduced to Amanda, she ended their relationship. How long did you stay with him? I...
Dennis and his then-girlfriend Crystal lived together in a small house just two blocks from Amanda's apartment, and their relationship wasn't anything to write home about.
They were known to argue a lot and they had serious trust issues. And after Crystal met Amanda, things turned violent.
Crystal attacked Dennis with a baseball bat and stabbed him in the chest. Given that Crystal had a proclivity to solve her problems with violence,
and that one of her violent methods of choice was stabbing, the police wondered if Amanda's murder wasn't the result of some angry boyfriend or ex-boyfriend. Maybe Amanda was killed by someone else's jealous girlfriend. Maybe, just maybe, the killer was a woman.
Despite her recent breakup with Dennis, Crystal claimed that she didn't have any problems with Amanda and that she had never gone back to Amanda's apartment after first meeting her.
For police, the list of potential suspects was getting longer, and while they left all options open, the detectives refocused their attention on Amanda's co-worker and ex-Fling, Jesse Columby. According to Jesse, the last time he saw and spoke with Amanda was the day before she died.
You actually talked to her that day? You and guys worked together that Thursday? Yeah, I talked to her for like a minute. A few words spoken between us. What'd you guys talk about? Nothing really. She was just kind of making fun of the way I made my ice cream.
here's the thing i'm curious about because that's not what we heard we heard that seth went in there gave her a kiss that made you want to come in there for like a a while so i was in there for like a good 40 minutes let me go on that topic though you did see stuff come in that thursday right yes and he didn't kiss he did kiss a man in front of you and it made you not that i've seen i never said that no no you didn't say well i never see i've never seen them physically kiss seen them talking it didn't bother me i was talking to seth
Did you know that her and Seth were together? Yeah. Jesse claimed that Amanda's new relationship with Seth didn't bother him, but the text messages that he sent Amanda suggested otherwise.
When did you talk to her again? Did you text her or what? Yeah, I texted her. So after you left work? Yeah. What did you text her? I asked her, she asked me if she wanted her shirt back. Then I asked her if she wanted the bracelet back. I said I could have gave it to her because I was wearing it. She said keep it so it's a gift. So it was almost like you guys were breaking up. Yeah, we were like done talking. Was there any anger in the text?
Not in that text. I don't believe so. But there was some anger in some other texts, weren't there? Yeah. The weekend before Amanda decided to call it quits with Jesse, she had gone to a music festival with a few friends. And it was at this festival that she and Seth hooked up for the first time. During and after the festival, Amanda didn't respond to many of Jesse's text messages.
Needless to say, Jesse wasn't thrilled that Amanda was suddenly giving him the cold shoulder. Like we were talking and she just didn't talk to me for a few days and I was just wondering what was going on, but she didn't tell me, so. She wouldn't tell you what? Like what was going on, why she wasn't talking to me. How many texts do you think you sent her? A good amount. What's a good amount? 20 unanswered texts. 20. Good God. Fellas, a little advice.
If a woman says no, it means no. If she doesn't respond to you after a second or third text, that's probably a pretty good sign that you should just move on. Otherwise, you start looking a little desperate and, quite frankly, pathetic. And if you go anywhere beyond five or six texts, well, let's just say you look like a psychopath. This advice isn't exclusively to men, by the way.
Ladies, the same holds true for you. In any case, Jesse was seemingly hell-bent on pursuing a relationship with Amanda, whether she wanted one or not. He was infatuated by her, but Amanda just wasn't interested. For police, Jesse seemed to have a motive to commit murder, and that motive was perfectly in line with their crime scene. Remember, the murder of Amanda Plass was extremely bloody murder,
and brutal. The killer wasn't just angry, they were completely enraged. Not only did Jesse have a reason to be enraged, but he also might have had a reason to hide evidence, specifically his unanswered texts to Amanda. What'd you do with those text messages that you texted her? Did you delete them all? Texts are deleted. Why did you delete yours?
Just because they needed to be deleted? They need to be deleted. You wanted to delete messages? I got all kinds of messages on my phone. I know, I know. I'm just asking, why did you delete your message? I told you why, because they needed to be deleted, so I deleted them. I just didn't want to, first of all, I didn't want to look at any conversation of me and her, just because it made me sad to even think about her. Why is that? Because she's murdered. I didn't even want to have to look at them. Everything reminds me of her.
On top of the fact that Amanda wasn't responding to Jesse, which by itself was making Jesse pretty upset, he had to learn about Amanda's new relationship with Seth on Facebook. Now, were you upset that she wasn't responding to you or were you upset that Seth was hooking up with her? I was upset that she wasn't responding to me. The only time I texted her one time about Seth. And what did you say in that text? When I told her, I was like, you and Seth, that's cute.
Jesse learned that Amanda was dating Seth just days before Amanda was killed.
And after the murder happened, Jesse stayed pretty far away from anything having to do with Amanda. How did you finally find out that something happened to her? From Allison. She called me and told me that someone broke in and she's not with us anymore. Did she say how she's not with us anymore? No. Do you know now how she's not with us? I do not know specifics.
So you, to this day, you still don't know how she died? No. Jesse was first interviewed by police four days after Amanda was killed. And he claimed that over the course of those four days,
He never took the time to find out exactly how Amanda was killed. I find that very hard to believe that you have no idea how she died when everybody's talking about it. It's been on the news. I haven't listened to anything. I haven't even read the paper. Yeah, we got it on your Facebook today. We're talking about it on Facebook. I'm not talking about it, but I haven't heard people talking about physically how what happened. Now this is, you were so much in love with her that you sent all those texts.
Not only had Jesse supposedly made no effort to seek out the details of Amanda's death, but he was also conspicuous by his absence during the large vigil that was held in Amanda's honor.
You know the wake was yesterday, right? Correct. Why didn't you go to Amanda's wake? I was planning on going. I was gonna go with my friend Connor, but then my mom told me it wasn't a good idea and wanted to let me go. Why is that?
Because just the way people have been talking, you know what I mean? She didn't want someone to be pissed off and start on the scene during her wait. Just like they had done with Seth, detectives eventually transitioned into a line of questioning about Jesse's whereabouts on the day that Amanda was killed. According to Jesse, he was home most of the day and only left his house to pick up his paycheck from Friendly's. You said your parents were out of town, right?
On the day that Amanda was killed, Jesse's parents were out of town, which left very few people to vouch for his whereabouts. And after doing a little digging into his story,
the police learned that Jesse hadn't really been entirely truthful about where he had gone that day. Jesse, we interviewed you twice already. You weren't completely truthful, is that correct? Correct. A few days after Jesse's first interviews with detectives, Jesse returned to the interrogation room for a third and final interview. During this interrogation, Jesse came clean and admitted that
that he had been lying all along.
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Become a VIP now. Log in or sign up today to earn 100 points instantly. In late August and early September of 2011, 21-year-old Jesse Columby was questioned several times by Chicopee, Massachusetts homicide detectives about the brutal murder of Jesse's co-worker and ex-Fling, 20-year-old Amanda Plass. Amanda was stabbed to death in the kitchen of her apartment.
and leading up to her death, Jesse had demonstrated, in more ways than one, that he was upset with Amanda because she clearly didn't want to pursue a relationship with him. In fact, she had even started dating someone else, and Jesse learned about this new relationship on Facebook just days before Amanda was killed. During his first two police interviews, Jesse claimed that on the day of Amanda's murder, he was at home.
and only left his house once to pick up his paycheck. But during his third interview, Jesse admitted that he hadn't entirely been honest about his whereabouts that day. There was a reason why you weren't truthful, Wes? Yeah, I was just scared. Because I told you guys that I didn't drive my car, and then when we got into the story, I remembered I took my car to General. I just didn't want to go back on my word. I was scared. In his new and revised version of where he was on the day of the murder,
Jesse told police that he not only went to his job to pick up his paycheck, but that he also went to a liquor store to cash that paycheck. On its face, this seemed like a pointless and frankly, pretty stupid thing to lie about. But there was a reason that Jesse had kept this information from police. So what did you do after that?
Jesse claimed that when Amanda was murdered, he was busy cashing his paycheck so that he could meet up with his drug dealer to buy drugs. He also claimed that after he purchased those drugs,
He went home and got high. At this point in the investigation, the police had a pretty good idea of the exact hour that Amanda was killed. After Amanda's new boyfriend Seth called Amanda to let her know that he would be working late and wouldn't be able to drive Amanda to her job, Amanda phoned her friend Mercedes and Mercedes agreed to give her a lift.
About an hour or so later, at 4:00 PM, one of Amanda's neighbors saw Amanda outside her apartment, getting her mail. Then, at 5:00 PM, Mercedes arrived at the apartment to drive Amanda to work, but Amanda never came outside. And after honking her horn and waiting for about 15 minutes, Mercedes simply drove away. This chain of events told the police that Amanda must have been killed between 4:00 and 5:00 PM that day.
The surveillance camera at the liquor store where Jesse cashed his paycheck captured Jesse doing exactly what he said he did at this time. There was simply no way that Jesse could have killed Amanda because he wasn't anywhere near her apartment when she died. Even though Jesse had a strong motive for murder, he was in the clear. This of course was good news for him, but bad news for detectives.
While they still had a long list of potential suspects, all their evidence was circumstantial and certainly not enough to levy charges against anyone. With nowhere else to turn and seemingly no one left to interview, the Amanda Plass murder investigation went cold. And it remained cold for two years. Over the course of those two years, some occasional tips filtered into the Chicopee Police Department.
one of which was the bizarre 911 call that you heard at the start of the show. The girl, what did you say her name was? Her, she said her name was Amanda.
Unfortunately, this 911 call, along with all the other tips that the police received, turned out to be bogus dead ends. Amanda's killer had seemingly gotten away with murder. But in late 2013, the lead detective in this case sat down to review it again. And that file included crime scene photos. When the detective looked over the photographs, something stood out at him.
and he was once again reminded of the handwritten words on Amanda's whiteboard. A single sentence was haphazardly written next to Amanda's handwritten doodles. It read, Dennis was here, 8-11-11. 22-year-old Dennis Rosa Roman was Amanda's pot dealer.
And with nowhere else to turn and nothing to lose, the detective decided to track Dennis down. The detective learned that shortly after Amanda's death, Dennis relocated to a neighboring town. And police caught up with him just outside his new home. When detectives approached Dennis and started asking questions about Amanda, Dennis appeared nervous and said that he was too busy to talk.
The cops let him go, but not before giving him their contact info. A few days later, Dennis called the detective in a panic and explained that he had something very important to tell police. You say you really need to talk to the day? Yeah. Like seriously? The day that this all happened. What happened that day? I went and I brought her some weed. Did she...
Did she call you like that day? Yeah, she called me that day. She called me. She said, "Yo, can you move me a dime bag?" I walked to her house, dropped it off, heard some guy arguing with her. Something about money. So you heard this coming from a maintenance department? Like, I was just hitting the third floor porch. And I'm like, I was on my ear and I'm like, "Okay, I'm listening to this guy." It's like, "I want my money. I didn't give you this shit for no reason."
After coming in for an interview, Dennis told police that he went to Amanda's apartment on the day of the murder to drop off some weed. And when he got to her door, he could hear a man's voice, presumably yelling at Amanda. Yeah.
And I'm like, where's Amanda? She's like, she's inside. She's busy right now. He didn't let you go in? He didn't. I didn't even, I never stepped in her house. He didn't. He just said, yo, give me that and that's it. And I, what about my weight? Okay, whatever. I'm just going to go home. I'm not bothered with it. According to Dennis, he was never able to meet up with Amanda that day. Instead, when he knocked on the door, an angry man confronted him and in so many words told Dennis to get lost.
If Dennis's story was true, and that's a pretty big if, but if it was true, why was Dennis only coming forward with this information now? He knew that Amanda had been murdered. So why wait two years to give police this crucial information? You said when we first came here, you were saying you're scared because the other day when you saw me, I was, you saw the guy, you saw the guy too, huh? Yeah. Yeah.
Dennis claimed that the man he saw at Amanda's apartment on the day of the murder was stalking him.
and out of fear for his life, Dennis decided to keep his mouth shut. While they never outright said it during the interview, it was pretty obvious that the detectives weren't buying Dennis' story, and they clearly suspected that Dennis was the killer. If you remember, one of the key pieces of evidence from the crime scene was a bloody shoe print that was found next to Amanda's body. The killer was either a woman that wore a size 9,
or a man that wore a size 7. So far, none of the suspects that police interviewed matched the size of that shoe print. That is, until they interviewed Littlefoot Dennis. Sure enough, Dennis wore a size 7.
and was a match for the bloody shoe print next to Amanda's body. A few days after Dennis was first interviewed, the police brought him in for another round of questioning, and they told Dennis that they were sure he was inside Amanda's apartment on the day of the murder. When confronted with this accusation,
Dennis changed his story. You knocked on the door? You're mad at heart, yes. Yep. Yes. And what happened then? I hear a bunch of screaming and I... Did you hear her voice? I heard her voice, yes. You heard her voice? Yes. What was she saying? Stop, stop, stop, stop. This isn't right. Stop, stop. So then I barged in. So you... He didn't come to the door. You actually went inside. I went inside. I barged in. Was the door open? The door wasn't locked.
In his new version of events, Dennis explained that he barged into Amanda's apartment after hearing Amanda screaming. After he was inside, Dennis claimed that he came upon a violent struggle between Amanda and her killer. So now they're in the kitchen. What do you see when you get to the kitchen? I see the guy on top of her. The guy was on top of her. When you say he was on top of her, where was she at? She was on the floor.
Was she face up, face down? Face up, looking at him. So now, what do you... I mean, he's on top of her. Well, I run over there and I try to separate them and she's trying to like tussle between me and him and the guy shoves the shit out of me and she gets up and then the guy pulls out a knife on me. So he's got the knife out. Yeah. What are you doing? I'm fucking tussling with the guy and she's trying to get the knife out of his hand and he's just like...
Dennis claimed that after this encounter with Amanda's killer, Dennis took off running.
And after escaping the apartment, he ran past a nearby park to safety. But there was, of course, a problem with his story. Honestly, I'm being real honest here. I don't know anything else no more, no less. It's actually a problem because you're not being honest.
You're still not telling us the whole truth. I'm telling you everything. No, you're not. I've told you everything. I'm sorry. You may say no, you're not. No, you're not. No, you're not. Listen to me. Listen. Listen. Listen. Remember when I told you we know things you don't know we know? There's more, okay? There's video right there on the corner, okay? Facing out on that street. And I've watched that video. And no one goes running down that street on that side of the road, cutting across to the park.
We've watched it. So that's another part of your story that's not true. You're not telling us the truth. There are several times throughout his interview that Dennis has called out for his obvious and blatant lies. And each time this happened, Dennis changed his story to match the evidence that he was confronted with. By the end, Dennis' story had changed so much that he actually claimed to have gone to Amanda's apartment with Amanda's killer.
Which is probably true if you want to get really technical about it, because he was Amanda's killer. So the guy didn't do it. You did it because she owed you money for drugs? Is that what happened? No, I didn't kill her. I'm sorry to say I didn't. Okay, so what happened? I mean, we're going down this avenue. My dealer went to her house. What? My dealer went to her house. Your dealer went to her house? Yeah. Your dealer? My dealer. Did he go there with you? Yes.
And yet another bundle of lies and bullshit, Dennis told police that he brought his drug dealer to Amanda's apartment, and when they went inside,
Dennis witnessed the murder. He knocks on the door. He's like, yo, I went to the door. She entered the door. He pushed her in. So she entered the door? Yeah. He pushes her in? Pushed her in the house. I'm like, yo, why are you pushing her? And he was like, no, I want my fucking money. I don't care what you say. Like, you're going to pay for this if she is. Pulled something out of his pocket and just started poking her. He pulled something out of his pocket? And just started poking her. Did you see what it was? A knife. It was a knife. And he started poking her. Was she standing up? Yeah. What do you do then?
According to Dennis, he simply stood by and watched as his drug dealer brutally stabbed the life out of Amanda. Stomach.
fucking chest, I guess. Was she fighting? She was fighting. So, did she fall at some point? After everything, I guess. When you left her, what position was she in? She sprawled out on the floor. Did you see the stab wounds in her? Yeah. Did you see a lot of blood? No. She was just dying. She was dying.
If Dennis' story was true, which, again, I mean, come on, we all know it's not. But if it was true, Dennis would have to give the detectives a name. He would have to tell them who this drug dealer was. Shockingly, this wasn't something Dennis was willing to do.
Dennis claimed that he wasn't willing to give up the killer's name because he feared that the guy would come after him. Yet Dennis was more than willing to tell police what the killer looked like, what cars he drove,
and where to find him. Rightfully so, the cops weren't buying Dennis' story.
But, no matter how much they pressed him, Dennis maintained that he did not kill Amanda Plass. Every single conversation that we've had with you, it's changed. And you're still not telling us the whole truth. You're not done. I don't believe that there's another person there. You want to prove it, you're going to need to say the name. Because I don't believe there's another person there. It's just another one in a string of mistruths that you told us all the way along.
There's no reason for me to believe you. All the things that you told us so far about all the different things were not true. It's time to come clean, Dennis. This is it. Right now, right here. Let me ask you this. You killed her because she owed you money? I didn't kill her. I'm just asking. I didn't kill her. Once again, I wouldn't stoop to that level. Following his police interview, Dennis was booked and charged with first-degree murder.
It took a while for Dennis' case to go to trial, but in June of 2016, five years after Amanda was killed, a jury was finally able to hear the case. That Friday afternoon when Ms. Plath was getting ready to go to work at Friendly's on Memorial Drive in Chippewa, she had to be to work for five. When the defendant came into her apartment while she was getting ready and stabbed her six times.
Her face was cut and her throat was cut. In the end, and after only five hours of jury deliberation, Dennis Rosa Roman was convicted of first-degree murder. As is custom, before Dennis was sentenced, Amanda's family provided the court with impact statements. My pain does not end here, but my healing begins. There is no amount of time that will ever bring Amanda back.
The request that Amanda's mom made the court was granted, and Dennis Rosa Roman was sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole.
Given that Dennis never confessed, there is that lingering question: Why did he do it? While we don't know for sure, and we'll likely never know for sure, there is a pretty solid theory about the motive. About a week before Amanda was killed, her apartment had been broken into, and someone stole her weed. Amanda told her friends that she suspected Dennis was the thief, and she was probably right.
On the day of the murder, Dennis likely assumed that Amanda wasn't home and broke into her apartment to steal her weed again. But Amanda was home and probably confronted Dennis in her kitchen. From there, a violent struggle broke out. Amanda fought for her life, but sadly, Dennis got the best of her and stabbed her to death. Imagine killing someone for weed.
Following Amanda's brutal murder, her family spent several years trying to get a new law passed in her name. When the police were first called to the crime scene, one of the first responders took photos of Amanda's dead body and shared them with his buddies.
These gruesome photos eventually surfaced online, and this new law dubbed Amanda's Law would ideally deter first responders from sharing crime scene photos in the future.
It's coming up on the 10-year anniversary of the murder of Amanda Plaz, and her family is still fighting to have a law with her name on it passed. It would prevent first responders from taking and sharing unauthorized photos of a crime scene, which is exactly what happened to Amanda. This is not a law that you would think would need to be set in place, but here we are. We need to actually tell people that they can't do this, and we need to make sure that there's a consequence because those officers really didn't receive a consequence.
In August of 2022, more than 10 years after the murder, Amanda's Law was finally signed into law by the Massachusetts state governor, making it illegal for first responders to take and share unauthorized photographs of a crime scene. I guess you could say that some good news came out of this horrific tragedy, but it sure feels like a very small gain when you consider what was lost.
By all accounts, Amanda was a vibrant, caring, and talented young woman with a bright future. Sadly, her life was cut short because some asshole wanted free weed. Another takeaway from this case is that it's so important for homicide detectives to do their due diligence.
Amanda's boyfriend Seth or her ex-boyfriend Jesse could have easily been charged with murder if even the smallest piece of circumstantial evidence placed them at Amanda's apartment when she was killed. Had these detectives not thoroughly investigated every aspect of this crime, an innocent young man might be sitting in prison right now while a killer roamed free, walking the streets,
looking for another victim. When it comes to murder investigations, there is so much at stake that it's usually best to put assumptions aside and let the evidence speak for itself. Because the reality is, it's not always the husband. And it's not always the boyfriend.
Well, that's going to do it. Thank you so much for joining us. We hope you've enjoyed it. If you have, consider joining PLUS, swordandscale.com slash PLUS. We'll see you next time. Until then, stay safe.
Sword and Scale team, this is Amanda from Denver. I wanted to tell you guys, you are so incredibly freaking awesome. I absolutely love listening to your podcast. I've actually been with you guys since the beginning. Love, love, love it. I love how you guys have just
become this awesome independent group and do your own thing and I absolutely love it. I also want to tell you your writing is better than any crime story show out there. You put Daylight 2020, all of those to shame. You guys are way better than all of those. And I freaking love Nightmares.
Guys, you just keep, like, raising the bar for everyone else. At this rate, nobody else is going to catch up, which is how it should be. Anyway, you guys are amazing. Thank you so much. Love the nightmares. I actually increased my donation to the higher tier for you guys because y'all deserve it. So keep it up. Keep up the good work. Stay safe. That's that. Hold for life.
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