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Hello and welcome along to the Sunday Supplement podcast with me Rob Jones and the assistant editor of The Mirror Darren Lewis. Joining us this week is Sky Sports News chief reporter Kaveh Solikol. Welcome to you both. Yeah welcome along good to have you with us this morning. Sadly Vicky is on her sickbed so get well soon I'm sure she's watching but I'll do my best to guide these through the next couple of hours starting at the Etihad and the Manchester Derby City with just one win in 10 games in all competitions and

And Kaveh, interesting to hear Pep Guardiola, I guess, showing the stresses and strains of management this week. He says, do I sometimes lose my head? Yes, I sleep worse. I don't digest food properly now. I always have to eat like only soup at night. It shows you. And anyone who sort of knows him and the relentlessness and the meticulousness that he does his job with, maybe isn't surprised at how much he's struggling with where City are right now.

I mean, I think on a personal level, it is a little bit concerning what Pep Guardiola is going through at the moment. You just feel like the relentlessness of modern football is catching up on him. And some of the things he's been saying recently are almost a sort of cry for help. I think we've reached the tipping point.

as far as the match calendar is concerned, because clubs like Manchester City are being asked to play so many games. And I think it's just starting to catch up on Pep Guardiola because the amount of pressure he's under, the amount of work he has to do, the media scrutiny, the number of interviews and press conferences, it is just relentless. And you feel like

You almost want to put your arm around his shoulders and say, look, Pep,

you need a holiday. You know, you need a break from it all. But I think he's just looking at this season and everything that is going on around him and Manchester City. And even if he looks forward to the summer, he'd be thinking, OK, at least at the end of the season, I can have some time off. But no, at the end of the season, he's got to go with Manchester City and play in the Club World Cup, which is going to take a month, five weeks. And then if they get to the final of that,

then it's just two and a half, three weeks before the season starts again. So I think maybe it's a debate for another day, but I just sense looking at Pep Guardiola, he is sort of symbolising what we're putting players and managers through. And I think he is...

reaching a point where he is just saying, and you heard from his comments in his news conference, where he said, look, the problem is the schedule. It is simply how much we are being asked to play and travel and everything else that we have to do around these games.

And there are two points, Darren, there that, A, I think sometimes we underestimate just how difficult a job this is. And it's all very easy for us to sit here in this studio and speculate about why he's got his tactics wrong. But it's actually an incredibly hard job. And also, when you're Pep Guardiola, used to living right at the very top, unfortunately, ultimately, the only way is down. And there will come a day...

which has arrived now where it is really tough and he is not used to being in this position where he's watching his team lose a lot of games. Yeah, you're absolutely right. We've never seen this from Pep Guardiola, not just at City but in his managerial career. I slightly disagree with Xavi in so much as all the points you made I totally agree with and I think they're a debate for now. I don't think that we should normalise what we're seeing Pep Guardiola go through.

Football, we love football. Everyone watching this loves football. Everyone connected with football loves the game. I cannot tell you that a single person would love what Guardiola very physically and clearly emotionally is going through right now. The sight of Pep Guardiola with scratches on his head, with a cut lip, with scratches on his nose,

We can't sit here and say, well, at least he cares. No, if we saw that in the show business world, if we saw that in a political arena, if we saw that in any other arena, we'd have justified concern. Well, you saw that in an office job. You'd get sent home, wouldn't you? Well, absolutely. Signed off. And why would we suddenly say that...

Seeing it in this context, it's okay if he wins a Manchester derby or it's justified if he drives his team against the odds to yet another Premier League win. I know the League Managers Association years ago when there was conversation around the physical well-being of certain managers and they were at pains, very proactive in letting people know what they were doing to support those managers.

and the programmes that they were putting them on just to make sure, because we have seen cases, haven't we, where Premier League managers' physical health has been impacted by the stresses and the strains of the game. And I absolutely think this is a conversation, as you rightly pointed out, it's for now. It's so...

I love the City derby, the City United derby. I love seeing managers at the very top. And let's not kid ourselves, it's within the English psyche when someone's dominating for a long time to say, well, who can take them down? But there's taking somebody down and then there's looking at somebody as celebrated, as visionary, as important to the Premier League as Pep Guardiola and us maybe having to verbalise the fact that maybe he needs to look after himself.

first and put football second. It reminds me of a song by the Kinks that I was listening to yesterday. An old band, are they? Yeah, an old band. 70s. But it was a song written by their lead singer, Ray Davis. And he wrote it in 1970 and it was...

after five years where they'd been very, very successful, they'd been relentlessly touring, recording albums, doing interviews. And he wrote this song, This Time Tomorrow, about being on a plane, flying from one gig to another gig and not knowing where he was going. And he was sort of having a crisis of

confidence and he didn't know who he was. And I sort of, when I was listening to that song, I thought of Pep Guardiola being on a plane, flying to another game, coming back from another game, sort of not knowing where he was going, what was happening in his life. And you got a sense of that from some of the interviews he gave this week, especially one, I think, to a Spanish podcast where he said,

look, what I want to do with my life is, you know, sort of have my life back and cook and play golf and sleep normally again. And I just think we need to have this debate about what's

Pep Guardiola is going through and whether, you know, human beings are wired to be able to cope with the kind of workload that he has to shoulder at the moment. I guess you would say it's sort of why Jürgen Klopp comes to the point last season where he says, I'm tired, I'm running out of energy. It's very similar between two of the great managers of the modern day. It's so important because we talk so much about football

mental health, wellbeing. We have campaigns all over the industry about mental health, about wellbeing.

And yet we've got the highest profile manager in the country, in plain sight, going through a nightmare. I think that steps outside of football and speaks to something very, very different. And a lot of this has to do with UEFA expanding the Champions League. So we've got all these extra Champions League games at the moment. And it's got to do with FIFA coming up with this new Club World Cup, which is going to last a month at the end of the season that Manchester City have to play in.

Two teams involved today, of course, in the derby. Let's head across the city to United. We're approaching a year of INEOS and their involvement at the club. Has it been a success? No, not at all. I think, you know, you've got to ask yourself the question, has it got any better? How would United fans be feeling if the Glazers were still in charge? How much criticism and stick would the Glazers be getting? For instance,

Would the Glazers have had the nerve to get rid of concession ticket pricing and make the cheapest ticket at Old Trafford, what is it, £66, is it? £66.

what would have happened if the Glazers had done that? I think INEOS have come in and they've treated United as they would treat any other business that they'd bought. They've come in, they've brought in consultants to look at where they can make savings, you know, made lots of redundancies, but I don't see anything having improved from the era of the Glazers and

You know, I've gone on record plenty of times to say and write about what I think about the ownership model at United. But I think you could make a very good argument that the Glazers actually, when it comes to sport, have a better record than Ineos. Yeah, I think you're right. Because the Glazers, you know, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, they've won two Super Bowls.

They've won titles. They won the FA Cup. They won the League Cup. They've won the Champions League as well. Now, I'm not sitting here being a Glazer family fanboy, but I'm saying they have relinquished football control to Ineos. And I think when it comes to sporting record, the Glazers' sporting record, it's actually better than Ineos' sporting record. Yes.

How do the papers look ahead to this game? Well, the papers focus on a combination of Guardiola's comments on Friday in the Sunday's press conference. So just to explain, what happens is...

at the press conference on a Friday, there'll be one section of the press conference, which will be for the daily newspapers. And then there'll be a little break. And then the Sunday papers will assemble with their dictaphones and then Pep Guardiola will speak to them. This is what he said in the Telegraph summed up.

It is. I will quit if I lose this team. If those players no longer want to run for him, he says, then he will walk away from the club. Now, I've got to predicate this by saying that in some of the other papers, he says, look, I wouldn't want to walk away from the wreckage of what has been a difficult season. That's not in my nature, but...

He maintains that he can only really solve that problem if the players are willing to fight for him. And there is zero suggestion that the players aren't willing to be totally committed to him. We see that. And I think it's really important for us not to sit here and suggest that good players have become bad ones overnight, because that's clearly not the case. They're just going through a run of one win in 10, seven defeats in their last 11 games.

which has almost taken them by surprise as much as us. I just want to show you one other paper as well before I move on, because Sky Sports Radar, it's Amarim, Ruben Amarim talking about his blueprint to beat Manchester City and talking about the fact that there are specific areas that he believes, Amarim, are...

are vulnerable, not least in midfield where the personnel that Guardiola has at his disposal have shown themselves to be lacking in confidence. Even though they do have that capability, their effectiveness behind Haaland just hasn't been what it had been believed to be. So I think as far as Amram is concerned, he believes that he's got a way of setting up today

that will enable United to win. Having said all of that, I'll end by saying what I said to you off camera before the show. This is right now the most unpredictable Manchester derby we have seen. Five defeats in the last six for Manchester United against City. Each of the last three games at the Etihad has been won by City. One win in the last 10 for City. Two goals conceded in

in seven of the last 11 matches as well. You just couldn't hang your hat on either team. You don't know which United side will turn up.

I couldn't call it. Could you call it? There's actually a good piece by Martin Samuel in the Sunday Times today. If Amarim's so good, why has he not got another way to play? Yes, exactly. And he says, you know, Amarim is wedded to play in this 3-4-3, whereas the really, really top managers like Carlo Ancelotti at Real Madrid, he looks at his squad and he says, OK, what system can I use to get the best out of these players? And Martin says that he feels, looking at the United squad, they would be better off playing 4-2-3-1 than...

But we, of course, know that Ruben Amorim always plays 3-4-3. We will speak a lot more about Manchester United a little bit later on, but we've talked about Pep Guardiola this morning already. We'll hear from the man himself now. As we've touched on City heading into this one, having lost seven of their last 10 games in all competitions this week, Guardiola spoke to Juliet Farrington to explain why their poor form is because of the calendar and why he is not immune from the sack.

No, when the situation is bad and we start to lose games, games, that is not sustainable. Maybe I will not be here next month, in two months, who never knows, right? The results dictate that. This is the reality. See, we cannot eternally lose games, lose games. But you would think you would still be here. People would think you would still be here. It's unlikely you would lose your job. Maybe because what we have done in the past, right? Not because of the season. We are judged daily. So the managers make a good success, a season bad, and they...

they are out, you know, but they will do it. I want to do it. You know, the club knows it. So you would decide, I want to fight. I want to, you know, be close to the players, not in front, not behind, beside. The club knows it. So there's a lot of games we lost. So there are seasons that in one entire season or maybe in two seasons, we didn't lose nine games, seven games in nine. And now in one month and a half, maybe we lost these amounts or something wrong is happening, right?

And in the first, I put myself, all the managers, and I'm not special, everybody knows it. So all the managers put in front and said, "Oh, what you can do better?" But the reality is the reality. So last game in Turin, we have four players for the academy, four players, and two players could not play, Koba and Phil, six players there. We have Sabinho and Matheus Nunes and Stefan. So no more. Next game will be the same.

And it happened during the last month, it had been like that. And we sustained for a lot, just one or two games, you survive. But for a long time, with Gundo, with Bernardo, with Erling, with a lot of minutes, you know, in his legs. And there are moments that our performance is simple, we drop a little. Because they want to know.

But they are not able, they are not ready. No. They want it, yes. But human being is human being in the physicality. And I tell you again, there is a why. A calendar. The schedule. Forget about it. And we go now, at the end of the season, we go to Orlando and Florida, you know, in a golf course to play the World Cup. It's fine. And three weeks later, you know, three weeks later, Juventus de Turin ask the Federation to start two more weeks later

Because we're the World Cup and the Italian Federation said yes because you were there representing your country in the World Cup. We asked to the Premier League, they said three weeks, come back again to Premier League to the season. It's impossible. Is football becoming unsustainable? No, because they... But you're talking about the calendar. No, no, for the players, yeah. For the football itself, no. No, but for the players. The sources will continue to be there. We'll know that because the show will must go on

must go on and if it's not this player, it will be another one. If it's not this player, another one. It's your business. And they defend their business, I defend my business. They defend my business, my business is my players. My success is my players. I want to protect them. I want to take care of them. These players have done the most success ever in this country. These guys have done what any team ever has done. These players. And these players, they would have done it again. They can do it because they are not there. For what? For the schedule.

No more than that. And when Liverpool beat me, listen, never when Jurgen beat me it was not fair. I always congratulate them and Arsenal when they are close and all in Chelsea with my friend and Zouma Lesca. So, no more than that. It's only regret. We cannot compete because we don't have what we had in the past. But the only reason is the schedule. It's not other situation. And the Premier League defend the business and they defend mine. And they should

allow to the English teams like Chelsea ourselves, we go to the World Cup, give us a little bit more time.

You know, to start later, to recover the players, the other ones, next season, what are you going to happen? We have to have 25, 30 players. And you don't have 30 players, you have more chaos in the locker room. If you have 30 players, it's more unsustainable for the clubs, you have to pay more salaries, and they have to play more the other ones, and that will be unsustainable for the clubs, and it will be a problem with us and with all the clubs. So this happened to us, but next year it happened for the other clubs.

Still lots to come with us on Super Sunday match day. Premier League table looks like this. Drop points for both Liverpool and Arsenal yesterday, meaning Chelsea can move to within two points at the top of the table with a victory over Brentford today. Let's start carving in with Liverpool 2, Fulham 2. Given they played for so long with 10 after Andy Robertson's red card, they were behind twice. Is that a point gained rather than two dropped for Arna Slott's team?

I think it was definitely a point gained. You know, they were up against it with that red card, which was...

debatable to say the least but I still thought overall it was a great Liverpool performance especially in the second half I think we should also talk about Fulham and how well they've been playing under Marco Silva I feel Marco Silva doesn't necessarily always get the credit that he deserves but I still think Liverpool are title favourites Did you think this was debatable? I thought that was a definite red card But was that a clear goal scoring opportunity?

That's the thing. Was he denying him a clear goal-scoring opportunity? Well, it was a foul. But had he not prevented him from going through, had he not fouled him, he would have been in on goal, no? I thought the ball was going away, though. Can we see it again? Any chance we can see it again? It's Aaron producing the show. Unbelievable. Let's have a look at the goals first. Steam coming out of the dark. His ears are worse than that.

I thought Dermot Gallagher was here for a moment. We'll get to it. We'll get to it. Do you know what? Whilst we have a look at that, I want to come to a point you just made there about Marco Silva. We'll get back to Liverpool in just a moment. And a perception that certain managers...

I don't want to say talk a good game, because that doesn't sound like they're good at the job as well. But I would compare someone like Marco Silva, Nuno is in this bracket as well, with someone like Thomas Frank, who is very vivacious, really engaging character. Maybe Marco Silva and Nuno in press conferences aren't as much like that. And therefore they don't get the credit they deserve for the brilliant job they're doing.

I think the thing about Marco Silva is if he was managing in Portugal or the Netherlands and he won the title in Portugal and the Netherlands, then he would be linked with big, big jobs in the Premier League and he'd probably get one of those big jobs.

But the issue for Marco Silva is that he's doing a very, very good job at Fulham. And when the big, big clubs are looking for a new manager, they're not necessarily looking at Fulham. Although, having said that, he has been linked with jobs like the Manchester United job. But they are looking abroad at the Netherlands and Portugal. Whereas I think...

they should perhaps be looking closer to home because I think, yeah, I think somebody like Thomas Frank, who was close to getting the United job as well, I would, with due respect to Brentford and Fulham,

It would be interesting to see how somebody like Marco Silva or somebody like Thomas Frank would do if they were given the opportunity to manage at one of the richest clubs in the Premier League. I don't know whether we can see that incident again with Andy Robertson, but the wider point yesterday, Darren,

Virgil van Dijk saying afterwards, we felt, and he said, I spoke to the Fulham players too, that we felt that the referee, which was Tony Harrington yesterday, seemed nervous, which feels an interesting way of phrasing it. Yeah, it was an interesting way of phrasing it. It struck me that van Dijk was pointing to the fact that they were trying to have a conversation with the referee after the sending off just to ask about...

the reasons why, the context of it, possibly even what we were discussing, whether or not it was a clear and obvious goal scoring opportunity. And they felt that they weren't met with a similar level of willingness to communicate. And he put that down to nervousness.

I don't think, listen, we're in an era now where we see players censured by the FA for daring to be adults and being able to say what they see. And I don't think an observation like that from Virgil van Dijk should warrant any kind of criticism. He's the captain of his club. But,

he quite rightly points, you know, he approaches the referee as is his right to be able to ask what the referee's thinking was. Now, like I said, I think that was a sending off, right? But if Van Dijk goes to question it, there should be no problem with that.

depending on the manner he does it. Absolutely. But he's the captain of his club. We've all listened to Virgil van Dijk speak. He's a superb representative of his club and of the Premier League. I think it's a little bit disrespectful, though, saying a referee... I haven't actually...

seen the interview myself, but he actually said the referees seemed a bit nervous. Yeah, it's very interesting because he said we discussed it with the Fulham players, which I think is interesting that sort of both sides maybe felt that there was an issue with Tony Harrington yesterday. And I don't think he said it intending... You're not saying someone's nervous. You're suggesting they're not up to the job.

And to say that in public about a referee. For instance, if I said about Darren, you know, he was a bit nervous about being on live TV. You know, I was talking to Rob about it beforehand and Darren seems nervous. He did say that. It's a bit disrespectful, isn't it? And he's been a quivering wreck for half an hour now. So...

Aside from Liverpool, let's move on to Arsenal, Kaveh, because a goal was stalled with Everton yesterday, six points off the pace, having played a game more than Liverpool as well. And no goal in open play now for five and a half hours in the Premier League, which for all their brilliance from set pieces, you would argue they need to do more in open play.

I think the issue with Arsenal is just scoring goals at the moment. They just seem to be going through a patch where they're not finishing off chances. I think it'd be easy to make too much of this. And obviously there's been a big debate about how good they are at set pieces. But I just think...

When you're creating that many chances, you are going to eventually put them away. Maybe they need to look in the transfer market, signing another striker. I know that's something a lot of Arsenal fans want. But I suppose one of the big talking points about yesterday as well was Mikel Arteta's substitutions. When they needed a goal, taking off Rice, who I think was...

He's playing injury, isn't he? But Martin Odegaard, you think that if you need a goal, you would want him on the pitch. But maybe there are reasons that we're not aware of behind why he was taken off. One thing you say, he's not too long back from an injury, Martin Odegaard. And I think...

It's so difficult, isn't it? Because with Arsenal, the criticism, particularly of the way that he handled Bakayas Saka last season, is that flogged him into the ground. And there were times when he definitely could have taken him off.

and didn't and now maybe he is protecting Erdogan a little bit. That might be the reason, might not, but now we have a pop at him for taking Erdogan off. But when you do need a goal, it seems also strange to take off your most creative player. It's a thrust of the Telegraph match report on this and they feel that having taken him off, they robbed themselves of the opportunity to create enough to score in the final throws of the game.

I think when you're looking at the title race picture and you look at Chelsea there in second, one thing you would say is that you have Cole Palmer on 11 goals so far this season. You have Nicholas Jackson on eight goals so far this season. And you've got other players, when they beat Southampton, there were five different scorers. The load is being shared around at Southampton.

Chelsea. Now, Arsenal do have the superior defensive record, Chelsea. I think they've only kept one clean sheet in their last eight or nine. But there are

kind of pointers towards both in the context of this title race. With respect to Forrester, we're doing superbly well, but I think we're only looking at the top three in terms of the title race. And if Chelsea were to win today, there'd be two points behind Liverpool, albeit with that game in hand that Liverpool have. How do the papers see those drop points for Arsenal? Well, not very well. This is the Mirror and this is Harry Pratt's match report. And...

Gunners failed to pick Locke, obviously a reference to Jordan Pickford. Look at the sub deck there. Toffee's hero, Jordan, for Straits Arts title changers. And what Harry says is that after 20 goals in the previous six games...

They came up against a barrier that they just couldn't breach in this match. You can see the picture there on the right-hand side of Odegaard with his head in his hands after himself being one of the players to try and get past Pickford and failing. There is still a long way to go, as Harry says, but given Liverpool dropped points as well yesterday, it could have been an opportunity for Arsenal to cash in.

The Sun on Sunday reporting today that Gareth Southgate is set to be knighted in the New Year's Honours list. So Darren and Kaveh are still here. Thoughts? I think absolutely yes. He's responsible for some of the great moments on the pitch, but also for reigniting, rekindling, if you like, the relationship between the nation and the England team. And it's really important to remember that because when he took over...

We were in a really, really bad state. There were players who didn't want to join up for the national team. We'd had poor performances at the World Cup and in European Championships. There were cliques within the England squad too. And what he did was get players talking to media again. He addressed some of the issues, societal issues,

around mental health, around racism, around so many of the things that at the time had been so important. And he empowered players within the squad to come out and feel confident about speaking in the public domain. And he was absolutely the right man for the right time.

in terms of the England job, I'd argue he took it to another level. Because now if you take over as England manager, you can't just say, "That's not one for me. I'm only focused on what goes on on the pitch." I work in the front end of the newspapers. And so I understand the appetite that there is when you are England manager to speak to the entire country, not just to the footballing contingent. But he was superb at being able to do that. And I think,

the waistcoats, the atomic kitten songs, all of the feel-good factor that he managed to inject into the country when he was England manager. Lots of people remember him for not winning something, but I think his time in charge really was an important moment. I'd say one last thing. We've thrown...

millions of pounds after head coaches with better CVs, much better CVs than Gareth Southgate. But none of them have given us the moments of joy and excitement that Southgate gave us when he was England head coach.

I don't, I mean, I don't believe in honours. I don't think anyone should be getting a knighthood or we should... Well, it's saying lower down the piece you might get a CBE, so you're sending that back, are you? News to me. I don't believe, you know, I don't believe that, you know, we should call anyone sir, but... No, I did say that. Intrinsically, I think you make a very good point. But I've said before that...

I think Gareth Southgate will definitely get a knighthood because of the job he did as England manager over eight years. And I agree with everything that Darren said.

It was not just what he did on the pitch, but off the pitch. Yes, I understand the stick that people are going to beat him with is that he didn't win a trophy. Also that the football sometimes, especially towards the end of his time as England manager, wasn't great to watch. But I think he, you know, overall did a fantastic job. And if anyone's going to get a knighthood, it should be him. Ironic, you don't like people...

In Corsair, when you make everyone in the office refer to you as chief every time you're in here, it's unbelievable. You were speaking to the man who has stepped... I like him, he can step. If you're watching, that was Darren Lewis, not me. You were speaking to the man who's followed him into the seat, Thomas Tuchel, on Friday at the World Cup draw. What did you take from your chat?

I think, you know, it was quite refreshing to see somebody who is so excited and energised and happy to be the England head coach. We have to call him the head coach, not the England manager. But obviously towards the end,

Gareth Southgate, towards the end of his time as the England manager, you sense that he'd kind of had enough of the job and the pressure and everything else that went on around him. So it was quite refreshing to see somebody who is so happy about being the England head coach. But this is definitely the honeymoon period. And I think the honeymoon period is going to go on for quite a long time. Because if you see the qualifying group that England are in,

I want to be respectful towards... Serbia, Albania, Latvia and Anglia, just to confirm. I mean, England are probably going to qualify with a 100% record. I wouldn't be surprised. I thought you were going to say 100 goals. They haven't lost a World Cup qualifier for 15 years. Thomas Tuchel is going to be judged on how well England do at the World Cup in 2026. And it is sort of strange that he's only got a contract for 18 months. But being at Zurich...

At the draw on Friday, you did get the sense of what a big personality Thomas Tuchel is. And he was the sort of, you know, one manager there. I don't want to be disrespectful to all the other managers who were there. But this is a guy who could walk into any big job in world football. You know, you could imagine him managing Real Madrid or Barcelona or,

Manchester City one day or Manchester United or Liverpool. So I think the FA have done very, very well to get him, even though it's only an 18-month contract.

You were making a point earlier about Gareth Southgate and the statesman-like qualities he had, I guess, to be spoken to about various issues. Something you would put in that category is Saudi Arabia hosting the 2034 World Cup. The process has drawn criticism. The fact that they have the opportunity to do so has drawn criticism. How would you assess the overall story and where we are with it? Well,

Well, I think all of the criticism that they've had has been justified in so much as there are, and listen, there were colleagues of ours, Tariq Panja, Martin Ziegler, Adam Crafton,

The Athletic, The Times, The New York Times, all those guys have done terrific work around this because there are elements of their human rights record, of their treatment of people on the basis of their gender or their sexuality that does bear scrutiny. And so there's no equivocation about that. Football's issue around World Cups is that they will go to countries all the time

where there are issues relating to human rights. We are about to have a World Cup in America where 300 people, according to a report last month, 300 children were separated by the current administration from their families at the US border. Under their predecessor, this is a sports show, not a news show, so I won't go too deeply into it, 5,500 children

children were separated from their parents. We are about to have a change of political climate in which the incoming incumbent has talked about wanting to decree what women do. He said, "I will protect women and their bodies whether they like it or not." We are about to have a World Cup in a country where, as a black man,

I have reason to feel unsafe because around about 300,000 people lost their lives at the hands of police and a disproportionate number of those people, 3.6 times as many, were black. And so we have real concerns about a World Cup wherever it has been around the world.

There have been our colleagues on other stations who are of a Middle Eastern persuasion, have been really angry about the portrayal of a potential World Cup in Saudi Arabia. And so hang on a minute, Western Europe has its problems. America has its problems. The only major tournament I've ever been to where fans have smashed up their own stadium, right here in England.

And that's before you even get to the children and the families that are being kept in cages in migrant centres in Manston and in Heathrow.

So there are issues that this country has to look at itself and the characterizations of countries like Africa, like Brazil, and now Saudi Arabia as having human rights problems that are insurmountable and should mean that they can't have it. A lot of our colleagues would push back at that. And obviously it's my job to tell you what our journalists are saying around the country and indeed outside the country as well.

And Darren says there it's a sports show, not a news show. Therefore, the wider point would be, well, how intertwined should those two things be and how much of an influence or a sway should politics have in that? Or do we just say, well, Saudi Arabia want to bring up the cash to host the World Cup, let them knock themselves out and go for it? First thing I would say is that Saudi Arabia absolutely has a legitimate right to bid to host the World Cup.

But I would follow that up by saying that FIFA should run a proper process. And the issue I have is with the process. Now, the World Cup should be in Asia every 20 years. The World Cup every four years should rotate around the Confederations. So we had the World Cup in Asia in 2002, Japan, South Korea.

2022, we went back to Asia, Qatar. So the next World Cup in Asia should be in 2042. Before that...

I think 2030 should be in South America to celebrate the 100th year anniversary. 2034 should be in Europe. 2038 should be in Africa, a proper World Cup based solely in Africa, not just a few games in Morocco in 2030. And 2042, it should be in Asia. And FIFA should say...

federations from Asia and Oceania can bid to host that World Cup, run a proper process and then have a vote. But that's not what we've had. This week, Kevin De Bruyne sat down with Natalie Gedra to discuss what's been going wrong, as well as his own future with his contract up at the end of the season.

Kevin, thank you very much for your time talking to us, especially ahead of such a big match. How do you think a match of this size can change the mood around City? Especially because you already beat Forest, but the derby is different. Well, the derby is different. It's always bragging rights, I think, for the fans. We know it's an important game.

Obviously it can change the momentum, but I think we should keep on trying, do our job on Sunday and try to perform as good as we can. Hopefully we can win that game. The atmosphere around the derby, do you feel it's an extra push?

Well, for me it's a big game, but I never feel like it's an extra push. You have to perform every week in and week out as the best of your ability, but you understand the surroundings of playing in a derby because it's always big and then obviously with having two big teams in it, it's always a special game, but it doesn't give me more incentive to do my job.

You've had tough spells as a team before, but does it surprise you how steep the fall was? Because seven losses in ten matches for City standards. Well, obviously it's not the situation that we used to, but I have to say there's some games where I think we could have took more, but we didn't. And, you know, this is like the situation we are in.

In the end, sometimes win and losses are very close. There have been moments before in the years where we had tough moments but we would win the game. It changes a little bit but we have to accept the situation. There's nothing else we can do. Try to change as quickly as possible.

The quality is there. Obviously at the moment we are struggling a bit, but you know, this is okay. You have to deal with the situation, don't make any excuses and go on. From what you've seen from Man United under Ruben, what can you expect different from previous years?

Honestly, I don't know. We've just come back from Juve. I've not watched any games of United since he came, so it's hard to say. Obviously, we've got two training days now where we will start working towards them, so at the moment it's very hard to say for me.

One of the constant criticism that the team has been getting is that the players are getting older, the team is getting older and because of that lacking energy. So as one of the most experienced players, how do you see that? Well, yeah, we're getting older. Yeah, that's true. You know, I can't lie on the paper. But there's not much difference than with last year, you know, and last year we won the league.

Obviously this is a moment where everything falls a little bit in the negative and like I said before that's alright but I can't see where half a year would change that much and all our careers that we are not able to do it. We were able to do it in the beginning of the year so I think it's just a moment of time

Where we have a difficult situation where everything doesn't really fall into place what needs to be and that's fine but I feel like the quality is there and it will come back in a time where we will be really good and then the the reasoning will change again Being 33 doesn't bother you this type of criticism. I don't I don't care like I don't care when people are speaking good I don't care when people are speaking bad because

The only thing I can really do is do my job. I've been coming from injury, I've been working really hard, I know what I've been doing next to the pitch and on the pitch to get to my level. And I feel, for me personally, I can't speak about anybody else, but I feel like I'm able to get back to the level that I need to be. So for the rest, you know, what it is like, obviously there's going to be a time where I'm going to be old, but...

I don't know, whatever people say is good for the narrative. You've been very open talking about your contractual situation, how it's not really in your head. So first, I just want to check any updates on that. Not really. That's the thing, you know, sometimes you see a lot and you read a lot. People know more than me. So maybe I need to speak with people, but...

No, not really. I've not spoken to anybody for the moment. It's not been the time, it's not been the right moment definitely. I'm fine, I'm happy, I'm doing my job. Everything will come in time and we'll be OK. I still feel I can make a difference. If I can do that, then I will be happy.

to play football. Obviously, if there's a time come where I feel like it's getting more and more difficult, I will have to make a decision. But, you know, I still feel good to play football. I enjoy playing football. So that's for me the main thing. And in the next few months, when it comes to the time where you have to have these conversations and make these choices, what will be important? What will you take into consideration? Everything.

Sportive, family, future. I think a lot about different situations, you know, I don't just take a decision, you know, I need to be 100% with it and I need to feel

The same from the other side, you know. Obviously I understand it's a business so I need to understand what people want from me or what they expect and I will do the same to the other side and whenever these conversations come, very honest, very open, very blunt, it will come but I know the team really well so I don't feel like there's any difficulties in doing that so it's fine.

So Kaveh, his contract is up at the end of the season. He is one of the great Premier League midfielders of all time, certainly of the last few years. But at the start of the next season, he'll be 34 and has had a few injury problems in recent times. Who do you think holds the aces in terms of the contract negotiations, the player or the club?

I mean, I think I can see him staying at Manchester City. I can see him signing a new contract. His contract's obviously up at the end of this season. From next month, he can talk to clubs abroad. But from what I understand, he's a very straightforward character. I don't think he's got an agent. I think he deals with all his contracts himself. He seems pretty relaxed about the situation. If Manchester City decide that they want him to leave, if...

He's going to have lots of options. I know people have spoken about Saudi Arabia a lot. I think he'll have options in the US, European clubs as well. But I think it's also going to be interesting because his contract runs out at the end of June and Manchester City are playing in the Club World Cup, which starts mid-June and goes on until mid-July.

And FIFA have given clubs special dispensation to be able to extend the contracts of the players whose contracts run out at the end of this season. So even if he doesn't sign a new long-term deal at

at City, maybe he'll want to play in the Club World Cup, maybe he'll sign a short-term contract to be able to play for City in that competition. But he'll be a big miss if he leaves the Premier League, be a big miss for journalists as well, because he is one of the players who always stops in the mix zone after games. We all have to line up there and try and catch a word with players

If they've lost, sometimes even if they've won, they're not very keen to speak to journalists. But Kevin De Bruyne, wherever you go in the world, no matter what the result is, I know City don't lose very often, but he always makes time to come and have a word with people like me and Darren. We're eternally grateful and let's hope he signs a new deal. Not just for that reason. No, but an honour for him to speak to you, I'm sure, Carby.

The question, I guess, is, though, that you said he will be a big miss. That's undoubted, as I said, one of the great Premier League midfielders. But it's difficult for clubs to know when to say goodbye to someone, even if they're great. And it was one of the things that was always lauded about Sir Alex Ferguson is that he knew with certain players when the tipping point was coming.

But see, I think it's different with Sir Alex in so much as, for example, in the 90s, he got rid of it. And lots of people point to this. He got rid of a team of really battle-hardened warriors. But he had the class of 92 coming through. And with a lot of these conversations around these established players going into their 30s,

the question is who do you replace them with he knew back then who he would replace them with but how do you replace a Kevin De Bruyne is there a player that's comparable to Kevin De Bruyne right now I think you keep him because he unlocks Haaland

even at De Bruyne at 70% is better than a lot of top footballers in this country, I'd say across Europe. And I still think that he does have that leadership in the dressing room. He does have that respect among the players. He does have that ability to control games. He doesn't need that mobility because you've got legs around him. But that vision, his ability to spot a pass, I still remember his pass forward where he came on as a substitute

Last season, was it? And he's passed for the Oscar Bob goal, which was sensational. Yeah, exactly. He is an outstanding footballer and we're all sensible. There's a terrific piece by Mark Ogden on our colleagues at ESPN where he says that there are lots of different reasons why the data analysts...

look at individual players and they see the things that we won't see from the outside. Form, fitness, injury record, all of the different metrics and they all make decisions on whether to give players a new deal based on those things rather than just the goals and assists. But I think as far as De Bruyne is concerned, it would be as important, I would argue, to keep him at City as it is for Liverpool to keep Salah.

That's it for this week's Sunday Supplement podcast. We are back next Sunday on Sky Sports News from 10 o'clock in the morning. The podcast dropping as soon as we come off air. If you don't already, please give Sunday Supplement a like, follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening.