Ashworth surprise Man Utd exit | City suffer at Palace | Maresca on Chelsea Italian Job | Ange on fans altercation
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Hi there and welcome along to the Sunday Supplement podcast with me, Vicky Gommersall, and the assistant editor of The Mirror, Darren Lewis. Joining us this week is the chief football writer for both the Daily and Sunday Telegraph, Sam Wallace. Welcome along to you both. So much to come for you, but before we get to Manchester United, we do want to start the show by sending our best wishes to Mikel Antonio, who was involved in a road traffic accident yesterday afternoon. Now,

Some of the images that emerged yesterday were pretty shocking, but thankfully West Ham have confirmed that he's in a stable condition and communicating at a hospital in London. The club say that they will issue a further update in due course. And Darren and Sam, welcome along. I just wonder whether you wanted to give any words, Darren. Yeah, I mean...

Straight away when the news started to emerge and we became aware it was a news story more even more than a sports story given the pictures of the car the concern when you kind of got a grasp of the extent of The damage that had been done the fact that the police and the fire brigade had to come along a lot of the detail across all the papers today and suddenly football becomes very much in the relevance of

behind the fact that you are hoping he's okay. Yeah. And once that news was ascertained, everyone could be a huge sigh of relief. And obviously our thoughts are with him, his loved ones, his family. And I would imagine that there was a lot of warm wishes that will go out today that had gone out yesterday from a number of other clubs as well. And all our thoughts are with him.

Yeah, the tone of it was pretty serious. The clubs don't issue statements of that nature lightly. No. And the way that news works now is so different to when we were all starting out. Clearly these pictures had emerged of the car and the club felt they had to sort of clarify what was going on. I actually thought they were pretty open and took the right decision.

But yeah, it's desperately sad for him. Horrible. Horrible for anyone to be in that situation. It's a really good point from Sam there, because you've got to give credit to the way that West Ham were very good at updating as often. They could have just...

put out the initial statement and left it at that. But they knew that there had been a huge groundswell of concern for Antonio. So they updated as well. They let people know he was stable, he was communicative, he was conscious. And they were all things that people were concerned about once they'd seen. And it had been established that he had been the person who had been in the wreckage of that car. We wish him well indeed.

OK, we will, of course, bring you more updates when they reach us. But now to some big news coming out of Manchester United this morning. Sporting director Dan Ashworth has left the club after just five months in the role. That's according to The Athletic. Sam, I know you've got more on this story. What can you tell us? Well, I haven't got any more than that. I know it's true. It's a brilliant story by David and Laurie. And it's got all the elements of a great newspaper or online, as we now say, story. And it's such a shock. Yeah. And...

clearly

The bigger picture is going to emerge, but this is an executive who they pursued very hard. I mean, it was a big signing in that world and that he came from a rival. I mean, there's no doubt about it. Newcastle United are a very powerful club now. They've qualified for the Champions League and to go and take a senior executive away like that is a big move. There was a lot of discussion when Jim Radcliffe was given interviews about how he objected to the gardening leave and how long it took for Ashworth to come over.

I think I'm right in saying that he only started in July. So, I mean, this is an astonishingly quick kind of falling out. I think he was on five months of gardening leave and he's been five months in the job. That's amazing, isn't it? I mean, in football, you can't really do anything in five months. I mean, United, as I'm sure we will discuss, are this giant oil tanker that various different people have tried to turn in more profitable directions. But...

What I would say is I always felt there was quite a lot of execs assembled very quickly by INEOS. That's how they built their new kind of structure. They went sort of... Yeah, I understand why they built the hierarchy, but you've got...

Christopher Vail came, who was formerly at Chelsea. Jason Wilcox was formerly a technical director or sporting director at Southampton. They had a new chief executive, Omar Barada, came from Manchester City. I suppose if one was to speculate, then you might say there was a bit of a kind of Hunger Games feel about it. Dave Brasford and then... So then, yes, you're right. Then you've got the...

the whole kind of architecture that comes with INEOS. So you've got Sir Jim Radcliffe, who's clearly a very wealthy man and very powerful, used to getting his own way. Dave Brailsford, who'd come from British Cycling, who's, I think, is...

I think his title is Technical Director of Ineos Sport, which covers a multitude of things. Sam, do you think there's a tension between the fact that they've acquired all this expertise? As you say, Brad had come from City. Dan Ashworth had come from Newcastle. They went to great lengths to get him. But then you have...

Ratcliffe, as you say, wealthy man, and you have alongside him, Brailsford, who's from cycling. He's not from football. We know what it's like in football, where there are lots of people who are very experienced, who have acquired that experience over a number of years. How do you go from working at a club where your experience is listened to, to another club where you are the person with that expertise, but you also have an owner who has alongside him someone he trusts implicitly, who's not, as some would say,

describe it a football man? I think everyone would describe it as not a football man. He's a cycling man. That's what he did. I think it comes down to power in the end. Really?

I'm convinced that that's how football clubs operate, that in the end it's who seizes the power and who hangs on to it. And in this case, it looks like those with the power and the football operation is run by Ratcliffe. We have to remember INEOS only has a minority stake, something around 25-27% when it all kind of is cashed in. But they run the club on behalf of the Glazers.

who still have the majority share, well, they have the majority of the votes of the shares that actually count as voting shares. I think it comes down to that, it comes down to power. I think Ratcliffe is in a hurry to run the club in the way that he wants and I'd also wonder

I mean, we talk about another big departure with Eric Ten Hag. So that, I mean, that was clearly was a botched operation to giving him a new contract in the summer and then to have to get rid of him. So within the space of just a couple of months, they've got rid of two key people who they've invested in very heavily within the last 12 months. Is this how you run an elite club then? You know, I mean, or not, you know, because...

You say in a hurry to do stuff, five months, like you already said, Dan, it's not kind of like a sign that somebody can get their feet under the table and do what they needed to do. So Dan was perhaps struggling with what he needed to do in terms of his role.

So I'm asking the question, does this show signs that this is another sign that Manchester United are not being run so well in terms of at the top? Well, the presentation of Laurie, you mentioned David Ornstein and Laurie, both of whom broke this story. And Laurie tweeted this morning a couple of things I found very interesting. He said that the decision was made during conversations post-Forest yesterday. Now, obviously...

The atmosphere fairly febrile post for us yesterday. So you do wonder it would be a natural assumption to make. Well, in what kind of atmosphere was that decision come to? And the second thing he said in that tweet that he put out this morning, Laurie, with his exclusive in conjunction with David presented as mutual.

Now, what does that mean? It means he doesn't believe it. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And so that suggests to your point, Sam, that there are fractures behind the scenes. The only thing you could assume from looking at that is that there is some kind of power struggle. It's a natural assumption to make.

And you can only judge in answer to your question about the way to run things behind the scenes by what other clubs have done. The transition between Jurgen Klopp and Arne Slott at Liverpool has been seamless. And nobody knew he was coming until he was coming. And since he's been there, there has been a real smoothness about the way that things have operated. You mentioned lots of cooks at Old Trafford. There they are. They are, yeah.

It's a lot going on, isn't it really? I mean, we haven't got a comparison to another, you know, the Liverpools, but I dare say there's perhaps less players in the hierarchy in terms of other clubs, maybe? Just off the top of my head, I mean, so Liverpool are obviously owned by FSG and their whole operation now is run by Michael Edwards, who's returned to the club since Klopp left.

And they have a sporting director, Richard Hughes, at Liverpool. But I think it's fair to say that all power flows through Michael Edwards via Mike Gordon, one of the presidents of FSG, who own multiple clubs.

American, not multiple, they're in some big American franchises, sports franchises, but they're trying to buy another European club. We digress. I mean, there are, I mean, Jean-Claude Blanc has been temporary CEO of Manchester United. I mean, I think they've been through about four CEOs in the last,

18 months you had Richard Arnold, you had their general counsel who was Patrick Stewart who was for a while CEO, now you've got Omar Barada. I guess this is costing them a bubble too as well when people... Well when you sack expensive executives, yes I imagine they have big kind of severance fees and we've talked about, you know, they've sacked a lot of their rank and file stuff, they've sacked 250 people have been made redundant at Manchester United and

You know, that does happen after takeovers and it's very, very painful for those involved. But it's cost him a lot of money to sack Ten Hag and his staff. And I would be doubtful that it's going to be cheap to do the same with Dan Ashworth. I mean, and this is pure speculation, I do wonder if...

if there was something in the contract that made it cheaper to do it earlier rather than later. But that's just me talking off the top of my head. I have no idea if that's right. But you can join Dots. I mean, Martin Samuel makes a point in the Sunday Times this morning that the costs are passed on to the fans because it doesn't cost the club a lot of money. It's the fans. And we've seen this week that the clubs have made their views known

about their disquiet, their displeasure, their anger in many cases over the fact that it costs far more to watch Manchester United, whether you're an adult, whether you're a child, than it did previously. All of these departures from the club are having a knock-on effect on...

on the people who pay, who have that financial as well as emotional investment in the football club. You've got a piece in The Sun, I think. I do. It's the back page of The Sun and it's mediocre. And it's an interview given...

by Sir Jim Ratcliffe to Andy Mitton at the United We Stand Fancy. Now, you know, this is a journalist show and Andy's a superb journalist and to be able to elicit the amount of trust it takes for someone so influential in the game to be as honest and open as Jim Ratcliffe has been to Andy cannot be understated. What does beg the question is why Sir Jim...

And it's kind of weird asking this question because we are in the information business. I will never sit here and say that people shouldn't talk. Never. I will never do it. All right. But when to talk is when to speak is very different. And I just feel like the timing of this

I'm not sure it helps the club. It was before the match yesterday, it was before the defeat. But I'll just point you to some of the things that he told Andy. As I say, Andy's done a great job in being able to elicit this level of trust from him. He's had a go at, he's justified the ticket prices. He said the whole club is mediocre, hence the headline. Look at the subject there as well. So Jim rips into clubs stuck in the last century. That's a reference to their data analysis, which he says doesn't really exist.

You never heard this kind of thing from David Gill. You never heard this kind of thing from any of his predecessors because do ownerships of big clubs do this? You know, it's a genuine question. Do they need, does Sir Jim need the Manchester United fans on board with him? Is he at risk of kind of alienating some of the fans?

I don't think he cares. I think he's in a hurry. He's 72 years old. He's finally got his hands on a big British football club. He had a go at Bayern Chelsea as well. He says he's a United fan as a child. So I think he's past caring. What impact will this make? I think United is...

is a ship on such choppy waters. I think you're right, 25 years ago something like this would have had a huge impact. But these storms seem to blow by very quickly now because of the

the chaos that's engulfed them post Ferguson and and it's ability's right I mean mediocre kind at times by the amount of relative to the amount of money they've spent it's been much worse than mediocre I would say you know since Fergie left in 2013

I think mediocre is probably, if you were just to sit, you know, without looking at the sort of sums invested by the club, you know, that's probably a fair assumption. But actually, I think millions and millions have been wasted compared to, you look at clubs like the way that Liverpool and Arsenal have rebuilt, even though they don't have the state owner or a kind of Middle Eastern royal in charge, they've done such a better job of it than United.

United have not, for all the criticism and the glazes, they have spent money on contracts and fees, but the returns have been so poor. When you say he doesn't care, I mean, you don't mean he doesn't care about the club, do you? He only cares about the reaction so much. He's there to make this club better, right? I think people like that have always existed in football. We've always had, going right back through the 60s and 70s, we've had outspoken chairmen or managers and managers

And that's been a tradition of football. I think in the more recent history where football's been through a much more kind of sort of corporate kind of facelift, really, and clubs have tended to behave more like clubs.

FTSE 100 companies, whatever, there's been more restraint from executives. I just, I don't think he sees it that way. I don't actually mind it. I think he's right, but I think he's in a real hurry. And that takes us back to the Ashworth situation. He's made a quick decision and he knows that people are going to be discussing it on TV and in the newspapers saying this looks like chaos, but he's done it because he thinks it's the right one. I don't think he really minds

what people think. I think he's well past that stage of his life. What about Ruben Amorim? What will he be thinking at the moment? Because obviously he's come to the club, you know, the right one, perhaps, you know, the right place, right time, he feels. But he's going to wake up to this news as well. Obviously, they got the defeat yesterday as well. And

What have we learnt so far under his tenure, do you think? We've learned that there is a greater appetite to work among the players for him. I really like the performance in the Everton game.

I'm not too perturbed by what I saw yesterday because I think at the moment he's still working out who is part of his plans and who's not. And given that he doesn't have a pre-season to be able to do that, he's got to use the games to be able to do that. Hoyland looks a better player under him. There are certain players, you know, you look at the likes of Ahmad and Ugarte and Fernandes, who took his goal superbly well yesterday. There are certain players who are going to thrive under him.

I'll just say it. I think Martinez is bullied on set pieces and I'm not quite sure he's going to be in the United back forward of future. I know Sam raised an eyebrow there, Carlo Ancelotti style, but maybe you might disagree with that. Do you? Go on. I think it's a fair point. I've

I wasn't at the game, I was at Palace yesterday, but watching the highlights I felt that it came down to individual errors. And it may just be over the course of time that Martínez does get moved on or Ananias is judged not to be good. They both made big mistakes yesterday and there's not much a new manager can do about that. I think they've got the appointment right. He's a really credible figure. What he achieved at Sporting was pretty amazing.

A lot about the modern manager is the presentation and he does that brilliantly. Yes. But in the end it is the results and he believes in something, he's got a way of playing. I mean, that doesn't guarantee you success but it gives you a foundation for it.

And I think it's the way he just has to show progress. He just has to show progress. And that's not easy. I mean, Eric Ten Hag won two trophies. So it's not simple to do that. And sometimes it's people hate. I know this is a certain cardio people don't like it when you say this, but it's not always the result. I mean, the performance tells you a lot as well. Yeah. So.

Yes, but going back to your earlier point, which is very pertinent, is how will he feel this morning? I mean, I'm sure he will be flabbergasted. I mean, Dan Ashworth was there greeting him as he got out the people carrier to walk into the training ground for the first time. He must be thinking, my goodness, I've really got to get a handle on the politics of this club.

I'm sure that he was fully briefed on it and he didn't learn about it logging on to The Athletic. I would have liked to think he would have known about it before then. So I'm sure a lot of their efforts this morning will be going to sort of explain to Ruben what's happened and make sure he's OK and on board and smoothing that before they then turn their attentions to the public perception of the club. I think if you join the dots, I mean, quite clearly looking at what we've seen yesterday and in midweek,

they need reinforcements. Now what are those reinforcements going to look like? You would imagine maybe Dan would have been on board with what Ruben would have wanted. It may well be that other people might not be on board with what Ruben wanted. So as Sam was saying, maybe there does need to be, they would have had that conversation already.

But you do wonder how it will fit into their recruitment plans going forward and what that would look like. And the other thing that Sam said, which is absolutely true, and we've got to be fair, yes, this is a difficult time for United and it could be easy to criticise them, but they did back Tebbi.

Tin Haag. To a lot of people's surprise, they did back him almost in every position on the pitch, if I'm not mistaken. And obviously Dan was a huge part of that. Absolutely. And subsequently in the summer as well, when they gave him a new deal, they did back him. It is not true to say that they don't give the managers money. It is just a question that's raised now, a legitimate one.

over what those reinforcements are going to look like. And you wonder, actually, not that we've got time to discuss it, whether they're going to reinforce that position, whether Dan Ashworth's position will be

placed by somebody and who do they get in that role going forward but like I say that's a whole other show I think um let's go to the papers mad dogs soft kittens we've got is that right well we saw the coverage on Sky Sports News last week didn't we of Ruben Aberyn's press conference where he talked about wanting to see mad dogs he wanted effort he said the fans if nothing else they want to see effort from the players the problem was yesterday that was all they saw and

effort but they didn't see good enough decision making they didn't see good enough quality they didn't see enough goals which is why obviously manchester united lost and um simon's assessment of this match was that they were cats they were kittens yesterday rather than mad dogs and it's going to take so much more from this side uh for some players

to be in his plans going forward. I think some of the... The cull is going to be quite ruthless, I think. Because initially I thought, well, there's still a lot of good players there and all it needs is kind of... The kind of thing that we saw in Imery, Aston Villa, when he arrived and he took them from, what, 14th in the Premier League up to the fringes of the European places...

I think it's very different at United. I think it's going to take a lot longer, but he does need that time. They don't have any money either. They've made losses over the last few years. Their PSR is right on the brink. So making changes, they're pretty snookered there, really.

Now, Manchester City's grip as champions was loosened once again as they dropped points for the fifth time in six matches in the Premier League, this time away at Crystal Palace. It finished 2-2 at Selhurst Park and City midfielder Rico Lewis was controversially sent off with six minutes to go. Pep Guardiola was pretty upset with the ref, Rob Jones, at full-time. Sam, you were there.

Eight points off Liverpool, not won any of their last four Premier League away games. Are you as surprised as the rest of us or did you see this coming? What do you think? I would love to say that I saw it coming. I didn't see it coming. I think it's changed slightly. Clearly, he's talking about the injuries. I mean, that's what he was talking about last night. He was talking about seven out of seven, what he would consider first choice players coming.

out with injury and I totally agree. I mean, that's obviously going to have a huge effect, especially defensively where he hasn't got a Kanji or stones or Ake. But what I would say is, is they still play like City. They still look like City. Yeah. They have a lot of the ball and, and,

The only thing I can think, really, watching them was that these are great players. These are the players that have dominated the Premier League for the last six years. But a lot of them, if you look at De Bruyne and Bernardo, these are players that are getting, they're one year on. And you're up against a really determined, deep-lying team like Palace, who've got a lot of running in them, five at the back, able to absorb a lot of pressure, very good on the counter-attack.

These games were hard when City were at their peak. They lost to Palace at the Etihad a few years ago. So I think that the team is just struggling. I mean, it's a combination of, I think it is turning a page in terms of its age, but it's also got a lot of injuries. It's interesting, this one, Rico Lewis. This was harsh. I think the still of where he makes contact is quite persuasive that he's the one being fouled because his foot goes under...

goes under Chalabar's foot and it looks like he's being stamped on. But if you actually look at the whole action, I think there's a strong case for it that it was reckless. The challenge, where the challenge ends up is different to where the challenge starts. And I think the referee, Rob Jones, made the decision based on the latter rather. But look, it was six minutes to the end. They had four minutes time added on. Again, I felt like Pep sort of

made more of that red card, he kind of felt they were going to get the winner in the last few minutes. And it just didn't feel like that to me. It felt like a draw. Really? Yeah. It felt like the right result. What are the papers saying about Manchester City at the moment, Darren? I'll show you this first from the Observer, because...

I kind of want you to look at this big piece with Rico Lewis, but you've done that already. So I want to show you this on the top left hand side. It's a season to survive. We can't talk about the title. City are no longer in the title race. I never thought I would say that, but you cannot possibly look at the problems they've had so far

and the mountain that they've got to climb and suggest that they can put together the run that they normally do over many seasons, I think we can safely say. Would you not? I wouldn't safely say it, Darren. You wouldn't safely say it? I think you can say it, yeah.

The problem as ever with a club that have dropped a lot of points is that they would need a similar catastrophe at Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, all to collapse. I don't think all three of them are going to do it. Pep said, I think he does say we can't talk about the title, but he also then went on to say we were seeing the last month. So,

So it feels like he's not given up on it, even though I think a lot of people... Listen, I wouldn't say they've given up on it, but they've become a team that you always trusted. On this show before, I've said, look, United were a team you never gave up to right until the very last whistle, hence Fergie time. And they'd been replaced by City, who you had absolute reliability about. Right now, a lot of the things...

they've been very good at, that they've forgotten how to do. Now, you say about the other teams needing to self-destruct, well, Arsenal already have had that run of four defeats

And even if Liverpool were to have that run, they've got such strength and depth in so many positions. And bear in mind, they're playing with their reserve keeper at the moment. Their best striker, Jota, isn't playing at the moment either. There are still other players who have yet to come back into the side and they're going great guns.

And I want to show you just to back up what I've been saying, a piece by a really celebrated writer here. It's in the Telegraph.

And it's by one Sam Wallace. And in the third column of this, Sam says this, and I'll let you develop on this. It's tempting to look at City's season in terms of the problems Guardiola recites as a matter of course. The injuries denied him of so many of his best players.

also played havoc with his attacking options. But there is something else greater than that which developed at Selhurst Park against a committed, well-organised opposition. The big figures in the City team are getting older and the feats of great technique and match-winning dominance are getting that much harder. So on the basis of that,

I'll let you elaborate on that. I can't remember writing that. Yeah, I did write it, yeah. It's kind of what I said before, really. I mean, Kyle Walker, fantastic footballer, one of the all-time greats for England and in domestic football. He did play Munoz onside for the first goal and I'm sure he's more than capable of going on and having sort of 10, 8, 9 out of 10 performances.

These were individual errors. So I don't think it can all be about the injuries because they've always been able to... All these big clubs that are playing in four or even five... I mean, City, it's going to be five different competitions. They are capable of absorbing these injuries

Savino is just another interesting aside. He's a good player, but he still hasn't scored for City. So little things like that, he went close again, just playing against him. I mean, Guardiola seems to be sort of reframing it, those quotes that you saw in the Observer were him talking about how "I always knew this was going to be, I knew from the start this was going to be difficult, this was going to be tough." But he never really says why he felt that was the case.

And this is the never-ending season for City. I mean, they're going to be going all the way to mid-July if they win the Club World Cup. Yeah.

And I think when they get players back, they naturally will look better. But you do make that point there in that second column. If we just keep this on the screen, the games are relentless. Juventus in Turin on Wednesday, Manchester in Derby, Villa Alueda following Saturday, and City continue to look vulnerable. And that's the problem they have. They've got this big injury to Rodri. We know all about his effectiveness. And it must be said here. I mean, I know that if I sounded a little bit flippant beforehand, certainly not.

This City team demands respect. They're record breakers. They've won six of the last seven Premier League titles. I know last week, and I said on this show, Guardiola was talking about rivals laughing at them. No one's laughing at them. Everyone holds them in the highest regard. I think everyone's shocked, aren't they? There's a lot of shock. That's what it is. But they command respect because of what they've achieved and the consistency with which they've achieved it.

But as they struggle to address the problems they have defensively and all the things that you've just articulated, the games just keep coming and the opportunities to avail themselves of the points in these matches, other capable teams are taking. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting you talk about the points. They've recovered 14 points from losing positions. That's the most of any Premier League team. Does it feel like they're able to do that, though, at the moment? No.

Look, until the sending off, they were the more likely to win this game. They've still got fabulous players and Haaland is still the goal scorer of English football. But yeah, I suppose that's another thing that goes. There's a lot of young lads on his bench. And again, Manchester City's academy has been in the last 15 years the most successful of any in the Premier League. But

He doesn't, there's a lot of things he can't quite say. And I imagine one of them is he can't make the sort of changes that he'd like to make later in the game because players are either on the bench because they're carrying injuries or they're just not there at all. It's an interesting one with Jack Grealish because obviously he played against Forest and then he came on just for a few minutes, didn't he, in this game. He's obviously not scored a goal for a long time. I think it's almost a year. I think it's December the 16th would be the year anniversary. Yeah.

Do you think they're going to make a decision on his future in the summer? Are they going to have to make a decision on his future? Well, listen, it's hard to sort of pick out individuals with this. But just in relation, in answer to your question, 15 appearances or competition so far this season, no goals. Played four minutes yesterday. He's had 11 Premier League goals in his City career. Salah's had 13 Premier League goals so far this season.

And that's quite stark context. Cole Palmer has had two fewer goals this season as well. Nine goals so far. And you know how versatile he can be. Now, what do we know about Grealish? We know he's a superb player. We know that if you give him a run of games, he is the kind of player who will make an impact for you, as he did at City. And he was an integral part of the treble winning side. It's easy to forget that when you just look at naked statistics. But I think as...

the problems pile up for City. It's quite striking that he hasn't been used as somebody who could be a weapon because we know that they know how to score goals. They've done that in the last few games, but it's just that defensively, those mistakes that you speak about, they are still there for City.

So it's quite striking that he hasn't been there. Foden, we haven't really seen that much of as well. And obviously we speak about these players because when City are going well, they are involved in everything good that they do. So again, it's not disrespect. It's just quite striking, you know, what has happened. Nobody can quite believe it. Yeah. Do you feel that Pep trusts somebody like Grealis? Do you think he's ever... He did refer... Just off the top of my head, he did refer to some sort of unspecified injury niggle situation

So I don't know if he wasn't fully fit, but no, I don't think he does. I think that's been shown over and again. I think he goes through periods where he puts trust in him. But you're right, this would ordinarily have been a game for him and he got very little of it. And now Doku's back as well. You wonder if he'll take precedence.

Welcome back to Super Sunday Matchday. Now, Chelsea can close the gap to lead as Liverpool to four points with victory after the Merseyside derby at Everton was postponed due to Storm Darragh. But I guess the most interesting news coming out of Liverpool this weekend is all regarding Mo Salah, isn't it? Yet again in the headlines. What can you tell us, Darren? Well, I want to show you this piece by...

John Richardson, I almost forgot who it was there. John Richardson on the back page of the Sunday Mirror and he says that Mohamed Salah is going to sign for Liverpool for two more years.

He says that a compromise deal has been reached between him. He's 32 years of age, but he still does have so many more years. Look at the subdeck as well. I don't know if you can see at the bottom of the screen under the headline, COP favourites are set to end contract standoff with compromise inverted commas new deal. That would suggest that whenever you put something in headlines, that would be something that has been put to you in discussions and it would look...

as though his agent has done a good deal that would allow him to stay. He was always the highest earner at the club. Everybody knows about his numbers. They're comparable to the best in Europe at the moment. I think only Omar Moumouchi at Eintracht Frankfurt has had more goals and assists with 28 compared to Salah's 27. He's got 13 goals in the Premier League so far this season and he's only failed to score in eight of his 21 goals.

appearances for Liverpool this season lots of those games have been twos and threes as well so and if you look at him he's playing with the smile on his face but with the ability to affect games score the first goal to

possess that X factor that gets Liverpool out of trouble. In midweek, Arnaud Slot said, whenever we need a goal from Mo, he delivers. And that's a sign of a key player. Jonathan Northcroft has done a piece in the Sunday Times today where he talks about the S on his chest referring to Superman rather than Salah. And although he's being a little bit funny there,

Well, clearly I laughed. I think he does a really good analysis of the fact that to replace Salah, if they were to stick to their guns and allow him to leave, where in Europe do you find a player who can have that effect on that club, the way that they play?

for cheaper than it would cost to re-sign him to a new contract. He says that it would be absolute madness. And I agree. I think you've probably got another three or four years at the top level for Mo Salah, maybe even more. All right. Let's turn our attention to Chelsea. As we said, they can close the gap to Liverpool, can't they? To four points with victory at their London rivals Tottenham. Ahead of this one, Pat Davison went to see Enzo Moresca to reflect on their rich heritage of Italian managers.

The story begins with Gianluca Vialli, club legend, fans still sing his name to this day, first Italian to manage Chelsea Football Club. What are your memories of him and how good a player was he? I joined Juventus a few years ago when Gianluca left and some of the players that they shared time with him, they were still there.

Everyone was talking fantastic about Gianluca in terms of leader, in terms of teammates. He was always fighting for the team. I met Gianluca also a few times. The good thing about him is that even for a simple chat you can see when a player or person or manager has a problem.

character and you can see that the personality was great. Claudio Ranieri becomes Chelsea manager in 2000. Do you think England wasn't quite ready for Claudio at that point? I don't know. I spoke with Claudio yesterday about different things. We started to talk a lot from last season when I was at Leicester because he was at Leicester winning the Premier League.

Andy was the only Italian manager before me, so I had a conversation with him a few times and from there we are in contact. In 2009 Carlo Ancelotti becomes Chelsea manager, has an incredible first season, wins the double, I think Chelsea scored 103 Premier League goals that season which is ridiculous. The second I mentioned his name I saw you smile, why did you smile?

No, because I work under Carlo as a player, so I know how good he is in terms of coach, I know manager, I know how good he is in terms of relation with the players. So this is the reason why I was laughing also because we met Real Madrid for a friendly game this pre-season and he tried also in that moment to help me a little bit, to give me some advice. What was the advice? No, that moment was just a...

tactical advice in terms of we were still probably with some habit from the past, we were still playing with a line and Carlos said to me, "If I can give you an advice, drop the line because the line is so high." I was trying to explain to him that my intention was not to play with a line, that was an habit from the past.

and now we are trying to adjust. So the fourth Italian manager to take charge of Chelsea was Roberto Di Matteo, first guy to win the Champions League and then it's Antonio Conte, your old team-mate. What would you say about him? Born winner? Yeah, in terms of Roberto, he reached something incredible here, the Champions League and Antonio Conte

Antonio is a winner, he was here winning and he won everywhere, Inter, Milan, Juventus. Now he's trying to do the same with Napoli, so you can see clearly the winner mentality. What was he like to play with?

Antonio was excited in the same way he is as a manager in terms of he looks always upset. But then at the end he's a good guy, funny guy and you really enjoy to share moments with him. I see some parallels with the situation you find yourself in. He took over as Chelsea manager after a difficult spell and led them all the way to the Premier League. Is something similar possible now? No. You could say that. No. Why not? No, because probably that Chelsea was more ready than us. We are not ready.

but hopefully we can be there soon. Obviously the first thing is to come to a big team, you want to go to a successful team, the circumstances need to be right, but does it mean something to you that you're following in the footsteps of these guys? You said seven managers? So you're the seventh Italian manager? Yeah, probably. There is some connection between Italian manager and Chelsea, because then also arrived Maurizio Sarri, who did fantastic.

So probably there is some connection and hopefully we can get something important. So all those guys played a part in kind of building the Chelsea that we see today. They all had success in their way. And I noticed the fans the other night were singing, we've got our Chelsea back. Is that a goal for you to...

No, the goal for me is to make the fans happy like the other night and like now they are because they deserve, especially after the last year, last two years, they deserve absolutely. And we are very happy for them. They can dream, they can be successful,

proud of the players and this is what we want, this is the reason why we work day by day to make them happy and this is the only target. Then personally the target I have is to see the players happy, to try to win games and to improve them.

Lovely interview there with Enzo Maresca. Sam, they're firmly in this title race, aren't they at the moment, Chelsea? And actually going about their business quite quietly in terms of other people. Where do you see them in this title race? Yeah, they're definitely in it. I mean, the big problem is Liverpool are so good. But I think they made the right decision with the manager in a way that United didn't. United hung on to Ten Hag and then had to sack him and...

I actually thought Pochettino was starting to turn it around in the last season but they went for it they got rid and they brought it was a bit of a risk for Maresca because he'd he was a Premier League manager by then he'd been promoted but he hadn't ever managed in the Premier League so I think they've definitely got that right

I think probably many times over the last couple of years you've talked about Chelsea on this show as pretty chaotic and they have spent a lot of money. I mean, I know that they have in the last 18 months recouped a bit, but this has not come cheap. This has been a vast investment by the new ownership.

Another disappointing week for Ange Postakoglu, though, was compounded with a confrontation with supporters following their defeat at Bournemouth in midweek. So can the most consistently inconsistent side produce a much needed performance this afternoon? We sent James Savandra to find out. They've lost at Bournemouth. The age-old discrepancies in Tottenham's form, brutally exposed again.

And thanks so much for your time. Disappointing display against Bournemouth. At the full-time whistle there was the altercation between yourself and supporters. Just how frustrating is that considering how much you're putting into this job right now? I don't hold that against the supporters. They're not happy and the ones I gather who travel to Bournemouth on a

on a cold Thursday night, a fairly hardcore supporter. So they weren't happy, rightly so, and they wanted to give feedback. Well, there's no better person than me to give it to, so I'm happy to take it on board. Do I like it? No.

but ultimately that's their right and my job is to try and turn things around. What impact does that have on you when you get that direct feedback? Yeah, as a human being it's not nice. As a football manager it's kind of you understand that that's also part of your responsibility to make sure that views and opinions are heard whether you agree with them or not and then

endeavour to try and change it. Not that you need moments like that, but does it make you even more resilient, even more determined to be successful here? No, it doesn't motivate me anymore. I haven't lost my resolve or my determination to do what we set out to do, to bring success to the club at all.

Nothing can stop me from that to be honest. I've had enough of my career to know that along the way there's always going to be doubts, there's always going to be obstacles, challenges. The bigger they are, the better the story is at the end. So that's what drives me. I don't need any additional motivation.

What I can't do is maybe hold people accountable as much as I'd like to because we don't have the squad to do that. I think competition for places which keeps people on edge and gives them accountability doesn't exist with us at the moment so you've got to find other ways. Either that is the realisation for them or I've got to find another way to make sure it sinks in. You know, again, it's a test of how committed you are to it because again, when these things happen, for the most part they're usually kind of

short-term, hopefully, obstacles and challenges if you overcome them. If you let them fester and you let them sort of become the whole focus of what you're doing, then yeah, you lose sight of what you're trying to achieve. And again, you go off course and you'll never get there. But I'm not going to let that happen. I think that the ambition I have and the ambition we have as a football club won't change.

A lot of the work between now and Sunday afternoon will be gearing the side up physically, patching them up to go again. But is there anything you need to do to gear them up mentally for Sunday? I hope not. I'd like to think that motivation is the least of my concerns going into Sunday. I'd like to think that I'll have a motivated group of players. You suggested that the club could be active in January if the issues around availability are still there. The actual average age of signing since you've been at the club is under 22.

Would you continue that in January despite the fact that there may be a feel from the outside that maybe a stopgap, maybe more experienced players may be able to help you during this time? Look, a lot of that's dictated by the market as well. January's a tricky one. So, as I keep saying, I'll always make the decisions I think are the best for this club to get sustained success and some of that has been looking at the medium to long term and I think they're the right decisions. I'll back those decisions.

Like I said, with January, as you said, it will be dependent on where we are squad-wise and what's available. I'm not going to try and just sign somebody who may alleviate some of the immediate concerns for us unless I feel like it's going to help us in that long-term or medium-term approach we need to have. And still yet to beat either Chelsea or Arsenal, huge rivals for Spurs. How significant would it be to beat Spurs?

Chelsea on Sunday or do you want to become more than just a moment side because we saw what happened against Manchester City a few weeks ago but then what happened afterwards yeah I think that's the key it's our day out of that in moments we're compelling for sure but we've got to get beyond that and having said that it is a derby and you know against you know

arrival and but also a team that's that's gonna that's challenging this year and um you know we need to we need to show against those kind of teams as we have already that you know we can overcome that challenge Sam I'm going to start with you first because he comes across pretty bullish doesn't he in some respects you know in terms of their situation and obviously the situation he had to handle as well at Bournemouth um he needs to be doesn't he is that right or should he be bullish do you think

Yeah, I don't think there's any other way to go as a manager. You set the whole tone for the club and you have to project confidence and control and all those things. And he's got a very certain style of doing that.

Like a lot of modern managers, I'm given to believe he doesn't do a lot of the coaching. He briefs the coaches on what he wants. He observes the sessions. I think close to match day, he does a little bit more. But he's quite an unusual manager in that way. I really think that there should be a place for managers like this in the Premier League who do play this football that people enjoy watching. The problem is he's at a club that's kind of...

in a kind of grip of sort of anxiety really over its own status in the game Spurs have won so few trophies in the last 20 years. I think you're ambitious is that what you're saying? I don't think there's anything wrong with being ambitious it's just it is quite astonishing when you look at how little they've won given the size of the club I did an interview with Glenn Hoddle this this week and I was just reflecting on you know he's got a history with Spurs and Chelsea and he won three trophies as a player

Spurs, you've won two FA Cups, you're A for Cup and he left in 1987. They've won three trophies since then. Gosh. I mean, that's just, it's staggering. They never really seem to pick up a trophy in a bad year in the way that Arsenal picked up a few FA Cups and United did, even when they weren't challenging for the league. So that's the bigger picture. Yeah.

You've got an ownership that really a lot of the fans don't like, despite the fact they've built a new stadium and a new training ground. Daniel Levy's not a popular chairman among the rank and file Tottenham fans. And the piece, what we were talking about earlier really is that, is I think the club's all about Levy. He's the centre of it. And, and to the convention has been that once, when the pressure has really got to a certain point, it's the manager that's paid the price. And then Poster Coghlu will know all this. Um,

And he's been quite clear that he only wants to do it one way. But in the end, none of that really matters. It'll be up to Levy to decide whether he feels this is the right direction or whether he's got an alternative and all those things. But to go back to the original point, they are a great side to watch and they're exciting, but...

Whether that's tolerated by a Spurs supporter base that are just so desperate to see progress. Yeah. I think that's another question. Yeah.

Sam's written a piece, isn't he, that you're going to know? He has, listen, he's doing double bubble this week. He's done a terrific piece and I think the context of this is all important because they've had outstanding wins, as Sam has said, they're great to watch, great wins over Man Utd, Villa, City, but then they've been punctuated by flat displays when they were beaten by Palace, they were beaten by Ipswich.

And you just don't know which Tottenham is going to turn up from one week to another. But I agree with Sam. You know, I love the fact that Postacoglu is a man who stands by his beliefs. Sam's piece talks about the fact that

that those beliefs might see him offered up as a sacrifice by Levy because when the fans turn on Levy, Levy generally responds by sacking the manager. Sam? Yeah, I mean, that has been the way it's gone in the past. I think Postacoglu's been pretty loyal to the club, actually, in terms of...

Their direction of travel he turned up and Harry Kane was already out the door. He's never managed Harry Kane Yeah, he's never had him for a single game and and Kane is arguably I mean the greatest player in Spurs history I mean you might say Greaves you might say Hoddle but he certainly he's in the conversation and he lost him first thing that was the first thing that happened and

And they've never shown any sort of ambition to go for a player on that scale. I know it's difficult. It's very hard when an all-time great leaves the club to just sort of click your fingers and bring in a replacement. But they spent about 100 million this summer on five teenagers. And there will be some managers who would have reached this point, would be saying, hang on a minute, just remember what we did in the summer. But to be fair, it's possible he's never done that. He's always tried to be positive. He's got a very certain style.

that kind of, that sort of delivery is unusual. But I think he's an amazing story. I mean, we all know his backstory and his family's story, but to make it as a manager of a top Premier League club, to come from Australia and to convince people that you can do it through that route is really, is remarkable really. And I just think he's probably, that served him so well, that style of,

I just hope that he can navigate the politics of this. I just want to jump in because, I mean, I agree and I've got...

quoted you extensively in here where you said we know the story at Spurs endured through many managers their many approaches the iron fist the arm around his shoulders three at the back wing backs have been three home stadiums one Amazon Prime documentary Harry Kane's boot deal it never it never changes you didn't mention who it was with there well other boots are available that's why um

One cannot stand his reasons for refusing to back down in that away support hostility. The backstory, the uplifting tale of immigration adversity, triumph against the odds. The trouble is he thinks this is about him, but 21st century Spurs, that story is never about the manager. It's about the ownership. And I think that...

There was a really good piece or some really good words from somebody who covers the club Alistair Gold earlier this week who said that if you start on a project as Spurs have done with Posto Coghlan, you've got to see it through. You cannot just give up.

on it midway through because the fans are starting to turn, particularly when you have won so few trophies as Spurs have done. Part of the reason why that is the case is because they keep chopping and changing and they do have the nucleus of something good there.

but it takes holding your nerve through difficult moments to be able to get to where they need to be. And Pastor Cogley, from what I've seen of him, I've been in press conferences, he's very open about the trajectory of his career and the fact that people have doubted him time and again, but that just increases his resolve. There's a good piece by Harry Redknapp in The Sun today where he says, look,

play defensive, 4-5-1, don't let the full-backs bomb on. You've got Archie Gray and Dragos in that centre half. If you let those full-backs bomb on and if you play gung-ho, this could be brutal this afternoon. I don't see Postakoglu listening. I don't see him compromise, because he would see that as a compromise of his beliefs and he doesn't want to be able to do that. He wants to stick with what he knows. And I think sometimes...

as Harry himself would say, you live and die by what you believe in, your players. And I think that's what we'll see this afternoon. Well, it's interesting you say that. We did see some of that memorable fixture last season in that interview with James Savandra there with Ange. But what we didn't see was this, which was, of course, the infamous Tottenham High Line, which we can see here. We won't see this today, will we?

I haven't seen him enough this season to know how much it's been he may have sort of amended this very kind of radical approach but yes this was a

a kind of seminal game, wasn't it? Because Tottenham were really flying at this point and then they lost, I think it was 4-1 at home. They did. And they had two red cards and I think there was possibly an injury as well. It certainly threw all the pieces in the air in terms of his defence, Romero and Van de Ven and so on. So, yeah, this...

Look, it would be, if Bosticoglu comes through this and maybe wins the League Cup, say, for example, which they're still in, and is able to build again, it'd be a hell of a story. I mean, he's got a great story as it is, but this would really be the crowning glory because Spurs, never mind his hinterland, Spurs is one of the great conundrums of 21st century English football. I mean...

All this history, all this sort of big fan base, great stadium. They just don't win trophies. All right, that's it for this week's Sunday Supplement podcast. We'll be back next Sunday. Sky Sports News from 10am. The podcast dropping as soon as we come off air. If you don't already, please give Sunday Supplement a like, follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. See you next week.