S7 E6: Something Good Comes Out of Everything
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You think you know me, you don't know me well. You think you know me, you don't know me well.

So I knew I needed to heal. I was going into therapy, but there was more I had to do. I had to frame things differently. And I'd always been a writer. I got published for the first time when I was in fourth grade. I had all these teachers that believed in me, but most especially they had always believed in my writing and my words and my thoughts. So I thought, man, I'm just going to write this shit out. And so I started writing, and I think I started a blog, threw some posts up there just to process parenting.

Marriage. Healing. Grief. Most of my writing is all about grief. I don't know why I hit public. I did. And...

As I shared more, I got more traction and more people saying, oh my God, thank you for sharing that. I have not been through what you've been through, but I feel the way I feel about my experiences the same way you do. My perception and my grief is very similar to yours, even though my parent hasn't been murdered. And in that, I found community. And I kept finding community. I had somebody reach out to me that I'd met on the playground and said, hey, I just saw your post and

oh my God, my mom was murdered. And she introduced me to this beautiful group on Facebook called Children of Murdered Parents. And just to know that I, my opening up myself and sharing my tragedy with,

has helped me find a community. That was so beyond healing. It was enlightening as well. So I got this feedback from the universe, from the world, from community saying, yes, keep writing. And soon like I won an award for my writing. There were signs from my mom and all of that. So I say this loosely, but like a lot of my writing is, it's all nonfiction, obviously just trying to process like my grief, but also sometimes the positivity of my, of my experiences.

One of mom's favorite idioms was something good comes out of everything. And I fully believe that. I fully believe. In retrospect, I see that mom gave her life for our freedom from that very sick cycle. And in that way, it was on her own freedom, but it was undoubtedly mine. And I felt like at that point I had a responsibility.

I believe everybody has a story. Everybody has a story. So I had that onus of responsibility. I had to do that. I had to tell my story. The more validation I got, I knew I had to write a book. Mom had actually written a book and that was one of her endeavors. She wrote a book about Alzheimer's and becoming a parent without your parent, becoming a motherless mother and a motherless daughter forever.

And I was like, I just had to get it out. So I started writing a book and this was in the midst of everything.

My ex-husband and I, we fought a lot. Our stances and our perspectives on everything were very different. Even my own healing, I feel like I kind of had parameters in our relationship, in our marriage. Clearly, it was better than where I was coming from, but I felt like as I was flourishing and finding who I was and finding out the ramifications of what I had been through, I felt like I couldn't really go through it as much as I wanted to. I was 22, 23, 24, 25. I was a little bit of a

People would ask me, oh my gosh, your mom is already dead, how? And I would say very bluntly, oh, she was murdered. And later my ex might ask me, my ex-husband might ask me, could you not say murdered? And I kind of can see his perspective, because it was jarring and shocking to people, I'm sure, but I think I learned in my experiences, I'm not a contortionist to fit into other people's comfort molds. You know, I have...

Again, my own story. And I feel the onus of responsibility to share it. So as I realized my healing was kind of restricted in my relationship, I did more and more to seek it outside and within myself.

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And that led me to start writing a book about my experiences. And I started regurgitating these tales, and it was really just so I could objectify them. I knew, and therapists had suggested, hey, you like words, it gives you catharsis, but

to write, write your book. And I was like, yeah, sure I will. And I got stuck. You know, I think I, I started writing about six years after my mom died. I was married newly, thinking of starting a family, trying to find a career, trying to find myself. And I just couldn't get far. I think I wrote chapter one and two and I stalled and I started writing blogs and things and whatever. And it wasn't until I got out of my marriage and gave myself a

You know, the true room just to be me unadulteratedly. With kindness, I was always raised to be myself, but support the greater good in that. And that was the moment.

The moment I knew that getting myself out of my marriage that, you know, we fought a lot. It was just a lot. My kids were getting affected by it. And I could see this cycle that wasn't quite what I had been in, but was not, it was still a tumultuous situation. And I knew I wanted more peace and love for my children.

And the moment I freed myself from that marriage and started focusing more on my own healing and myself, I sold my book. And it was kind of a magical, swift process in 2020. While I was stuck at home, I churned it out. And with that perspective and space and healing, I actually got it done. I've read the book and it's incredible.

And you put your whole fucking soul into it. And my mom's too. Thank you. And your mom's too. Oh, my God. I just know she loves it. I just know it. And it's so honest. And, of course, I'm going to link it and promote the shit out of it because it's amazing. Yeah.

And it's actually kind of how I heard first about what you had been through. I had no idea. And, you know, we had met sort of through other people and I knew I liked you, but I didn't really know you and follow your journey close enough until. And like I said in the first episode and then I got your submission and I was just like, holy fuck.

Just shocked because I'm like, you're just such a personable, kind, cheerful person and not like to stigmatize people who have been through some shit. But I've been through some shit and it's hard to be cheerful.

cheerful and care and give a shit after you've been through so much. And I'm just so proud of you that you overcome everything that you've overcome and that you were able to finish the book. I envy you in a way because even though it's like easier for me to write about my experiences than it is for me to talk about them yet, like I still can't even write about some of that shit and you did it. And it took me 13 years to get there.

They say that, you know, as a writer, you have to write what you know. But like, I don't think I knew what I knew until like this year or last. And it took all of that experience and just a lot of people to believe in me, even this, even this interview and you. But my main goal, yes, I wanted to be a writer and I didn't know. But in essence, I was writing it, you know, it's called Working for Justice. And the point of that is, is that I still feel like I'm working for justice for mom.

Rory, he, he pled, you know, in a very anticlimactic way. I never got to have that exposition to talk about what he did to us to really like prove that it was all premeditated. You know, second degree murder means that it was basically not premeditated. He on a whim did it. So there's a lot of consequence because, you know, of course, if you're a person that could do that on a whim, that's dangerous, but it's about 10 years less than his other potential sentence of first degree murder. That's 25 to life. Yeah.

So he's actually up for fucking parole technically in about, I think, two years. That's another reason why I wrote that book because I think in my marriage I realized – I think he thought there would be like an expiration date on my healing. And I think what I realized was that I will be healing forever because I went through some shit but also because –

it's my goal to educate people. I'm not waving this flag like a victim. I don't want to brandish it like my label that I've adopted or been given or been forced upon me as a weapon or anything. I want to use it to educate people. And if that keeps me healing for the rest of my life, so be it.

But I also knew I had to do something to just get it all out, to work for justice for my mom. Here's the weird fucking creepy thing. My mom's murder, September 25th, 2007, officially became...

America's National Murder Victim Remembrance Day. Now that was a complete happenstance coincidence. It wasn't like, you know, Hadass Winnick's murder really brought that to attention. It just happened to fall out that way. And so like, I take that as a sign, you know, whether it's a sign or not, like it's my mission to work for justice for future victims. Cause it's not going to stop here. Unfortunately, I have sexual abuse of sexual assault of murder of domestic violence, uh,

It's my mission to educate people. And if part of like that justice is I'm never going to get justice for her. It'll be she's dead. She's gone. Unfortunately, I am limited on memories with her. But I have this way of keeping her alive. You know, they say if you love a writer, you'll live forever.

So there we go. And, you know, it's just my mission to work for her, for myself, for my family, for my kids who deserve way better, for everyone's kids who deserve way better, and for fucking justice and for America to be healed and healthy.

One of the things that I'm personally passionate about is making sure that these kinds of stories are discussed with dignity and respect because I know what it's like to lose a family member to murder. And one of the things that you said that struck me in episode four was once you see it for real, you never want to see it for fake. And I think about that a lot in the true crime arena and how people discuss crimes and murders and the need for respect. Yeah.

Yes. I think things are objectified a lot, especially with a lot of, I'll get people like, oh, did you see that video of that boat? No, I will never watch it. I don't need to watch a video of someone being murdered to know what happens.

I don't think anybody does really. And I think, you know, and that's just like an example. Yeah. I think that there hasn't been a lot of sharing about what it feels like for us. And I don't think that that the onus of responsibility is not on the victim to educate, but it helps when we do. There's just an awareness that needs to be brought, I think, to all of it. And that's what talking about it does is bring awareness.

It almost becomes, you know, like once we share so many stories, the idea is to keep reminding ourselves these are not just stories. These are actually people behind the stories and that –

Yes, we're intrigued in these extreme stories, but they happened. And the fact that we're hearing more and more, it's because we're coming out. It's not like more diagnoses always mean more cases or more whatever. It means that we're coming forward more, perhaps. But with that said, there's more for other people to digest that are interested in it. And we have to remind ourselves that

But these are just not objective cases. These are subjects. These are people with families and former lives that we have to honor, too.

When I was 17 years old, my mom gifted me a diary that she had written basically throughout her entire relationship with my father from the late 70s all the way, well, past the ending of their marriage, but through the early 90s. And it was kind of her way of telling me all the things and the feelings that she had experienced without having to.

I want to read a couple entries. The first one I'm reading is from April 21st, 1977. You cannot live by love alone. Yet also without love, you cannot live.

So let the light come in and warm you. It will warm your heart and warm your soul. That was one of the first entries she wrote. And I love it. It's so positive. They don't all stay that way. The next one is August 15th, 1977. Evil versus good. Right versus wrong. Strong versus weak.

Being versus being. Thought versus thought. Opinion versus opinion. Truth versus false. Feelings versus feelings. Then she ends it with blank. Exclamation point.

And when I said diary, I should have mentioned that it's mostly emotion. This is, you know, my mom told me stories, but she always left the emotion out of things. So her diary is the place where I think she shoved all those feelings. She goes on to write that same day, with maturity, the world is conquered.

Without maturity, the world conquers you. Maturity teaches you the key to the world at large. Just know immaturity keeps you locked up in your own little world forever. August 7th, 1979. Honesty. What is honesty? How is a person to be honest with another person if she doesn't know what's going on in the other person's head?

If one moment honesty brings you closer together and the next it draws you farther apart, how? Tell me how. The next one is almost a year later, April 23rd, 1980. And there are no other entries in between. And this one just guts me, by the way.

I am starting to feel burnt out. What a feeling. Can that possibly be? Feeling burnt out? I was going to say at 23, but I'm 28. Can that possibly be? I sure hope not. I'm not even halfway there. I don't even have kids yet.

And here's the deal. I did the math after reading that and 28, that was her halfway mark. She literally wrote that diary entry and she died before she turned 56. So that one really hit home for me. And yeah, last one, which is, you know, I read it with the grit, you know, this is not, this was not her regular approach to life. I would never say that she wrote, she would say this to me. So to read it from her was so eyeopening and,

May 25th, 1980. Life is a pile of shit. I laugh because I can't even imagine her saying that. The longer it stays without getting cleaned up, the worse it stinks. That's true. The nicer you are and the more you try to please people, the more you get taken advantage of and the more you're treated like dirt. I guess if you lay yourself down and let people walk all over you, you'll get covered with shit.

In essence, you get what you deserve and you deserve what you get. And that last sentence is so fucking heartbreaking. And, you know, reading her diary, I think she thought she deserved the maltreatment my dad gave her, which probably leads me to believe that she probably thought she deserved some of the treatment my brother gave her. She never vocalized that to me, though, because I don't think she'd ever want me to think that of myself again.

I adore having this diary, this piece of mom that she shared, maybe even only just in her writing. You know, her language to me was much different in face to face, but I can appreciate and I adore knowing her full being. And I think that's the most important thing we forget as humans. You know, we're so worried about covering up pieces of ourselves, the pieces that aren't going to be accepted correctly, right?

It took me so many years to share what I shared on this podcast. People I've known my entire life said, what? I didn't know you went through that. And it feels so freeing for me to do that. And I can imagine mom giving me that diary, mom being open with me was freeing for her. It also prepared me for life a bit, a lot more too.

Everything starts at home, but then there are so many other paths that our journey takes, of course. School, friends, extracurricular activities, so many other influences on our lives. But it starts at home, and I want people to know that mom...

was a pretty exceptional parent. She had a lot of philosophies that were different than what we think are right. And I think that they were absolutely the way to go, even if her life ended up the way it did. She was working against all odds. And...

A lot of parents are. A lot of people are. And I think we deserve credit, a lot of us. I guess I'm just giving credit to her stories and to my own. Absolutely. Thank you again so much for taking part in the season and sharing your story with all of us. It taught me a lot. It moved me a lot and definitely opened a lot of people's hearts and eyes, I think.

And you've made such a huge impact already based on the feedback shared. So thank you again so much. I am so appreciative of the opportunity. I want to thank everyone who, you know, especially you, you're amazing to be turning your own, you know, you started this platform, you were, you were inspired by your own, you know, experiences and just, I guess, to a certain degree, I, I,

Just wanting to, you know, knowing that the world needs to shift a bit. And I thank you for creating this space basically from nothing and giving life to these stories and amplification that need to be heard. And I also think everybody that's listened and everybody who's reached out to me because that honestly, I'm like writing back to every message.

And especially the ones that are like, man, I, my mom was murdered too. I am so grateful. And I don't, it was really weird. I got my book yesterday in the mail. It was really weird for me to receive it and not be able to share it with my family because my children can read and they would know my family story in a moment by reading the cover.

So I feel like your podcast has made my community grow, you know, with all these wonderful people who are willing to share in my experiences as well. And I'm so grateful for that, too, because my point was my village shrunk, you know, and sometimes my village doesn't, you know, the existing parts of my village doesn't understand what I've been through. And although they don't need to go through what I've been through to understand, sometimes it helps, right?

So I welcome everybody who wants to join me in my healing to share their own with me as well, because it keeps me going. It really does. We're going to end the season with some stories from some other folks who knew and loved your mom. Nothing would make her happier. She'd be like, yes, give it to me. I love it. Thank you. Amazing.

I can't, I don't, you know, I have to say that her, I mentioned that her funeral was so massive.

But I, you know, had written a eulogy, which I share in my book. But like I, I had written that and that was like my way of honoring her and I obsessed over it and I read it and then I thought about it afterwards. And I don't think I heard all of those like other, you know, either a couple other people that spoke. And I don't think half the people that wanted to, I think this is just like a continued memorial for her. And I so appreciate that because that's part of my, my goal too, is just to keep her alive so I don't miss her as much. So thank you.

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What type of woman was Dossie? You know, this is my whole point. I continue talking about her. I continue writing about her. I continue doing all of this. Yes, for advocacy and yes, for education, but also just to keep her memory alive. I miss her every damn day. So, gosh, I love telling stories about her. I love... I think...

Her actions just illustrate what type of person she was. For example, her love was so ferocious, even her students felt it. And I mean by ferocious, just tenacious. After I got married, we bought a home. I think the first week we were living in it,

you know, man knocked on the door randomly. I answered it. And it was a nice young gentleman, cute guy was like, Hey, I, you know, I'm a landscape artist. I, I take care of most of the lawns in the area and on the street, especially are you looking for somebody? And it just was too easy. So we hired him. And then like a couple weeks later, we paid him his first check and I wrote it and he sees my last name, which was like an old check. I had my maiden name on it for some reason. And he was like,

Winnick? Wait a second. Is that like Mrs. Winnick from Canoga Park High? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, she was my teacher. The reason I own a company right now is because of her. And he explained how he kind of always never really believed in himself in high school. He was not like a star student or whatever. And my mom assigned this math project one time. It was an extra credit assignment.

She always worked at like kind of the tougher schools where, you know, students needed the extra help. She wanted to work there. She definitely didn't want to work where we went. She wanted to work where she was needed, basically. She wanted to be where she was needed and her students needed her. And in particular, the student,

said, you remember this project, it was an extra credit project. And like, she gave so many extra credit projects. And I say that they needed her because like, she was constantly wanting them to succeed. There were always there was always extra credit, making art in math, or this extra credit project was writing a paragraph. She was like Common Core before Common Core became a thing. She had them write a paragraph about what career did not require the use of math.

And they loved that assignment. All her students would eat it up. You know, they would talk about, you know, they'd all be challenged and be excited about thinking about something other than math in math, even though they really were. And my mom's point was that every profession uses math. No matter what they came up with, she always had a counter argument.

And that was her, you know, way of proving to them, hey, you should be paying attention in this class. There's use to this, what I'm teaching you. And that snapped Christian too. You know, he was like, oh, shit, I'm going to need math no matter what. And, you know, he started paying more attention to mom. He started getting better grades in math. This is what he's explaining to me on my front doorstep.

And here he is owning his own company. And he, God, he only had mom like two or three years before that. So he was like 20 already successfully working in his, you know, chosen field. So, and for him to share it with me that mom was one of the guiding lights in that experience for him was huge. That is what type of woman she is, you know, or was, right?

A letter to my sister, my dear sister Hadass. It's been 13 and a half years since you left us. The last time I talked to you on the phone and the last time we shared a holiday meal together. It was the last time I said goodbye when I eulogized you at your funeral.

I wanted to tell you how much you've been missed and how much I love you. I wanted to know if I thanked you enough. I wanted to know if you're watching over Amy and her wonderful children. Dear Dossie, I wish you were here to see what a wonderful daughter you have in spite of all she's gone through. What amazing grandchildren you would have loved and enjoyed every single day.

Whenever I speak with Amy, she says to me, Oh, I wish my mom could have been here to see my children doing this or that. She would have loved them so much. Amy tells me that she knows you're watching over her. I know this because Amy has shared with me some unbelievable stories in which you have left her little gifts to know you're there.

Have I thanked you enough, my dear sister, when you donated your white blood cells to me until you could give no more as I went through stem cell transplant? Have I thanked you enough when you cooked the most delicious matzo ball soup for our holiday meals or when you hosted wonderful barbecues or when you baked wonderful banana bread?

These are some of the few memories of the good, good memories, dear sister. But I was not blind to what was happening in your immediate family. I wanted to help you, but you told me to stay out of it. It was none of my business. And just leave you alone. I wanted to know why you wouldn't reach out to me more.

You finally did reach out when it was almost too late, but as it turned out, it was too late, and it turned out to be a disaster. Your grandchildren call us Saba and Safda, meaning Grandpa and Grandma. I'm here in your place, loving them with all my heart, spoiling them, and helping your grandchildren grow and thrive.

My portrait painting of you and Amy and the grandchildren are door in my family room walls so I can see you around me. I just feel your presence whether you're here with me in spirit or not. I miss you very much and love you forever. You know, mom kind of ran away from her problems a little bit, I would say, maybe because she didn't have the tools to get through them.

And she did that by helping other people. You know, sometimes she would throw herself into other people's problems to avoid her own, I think. She had a student once that got pregnant right as the school year was ending. And long story short, I mean, this is a student that just would spend like every lunch with mom, every after school with mom. Mom ended up throwing her a baby shower because her mom wouldn't.

And whether she supported her students' decisions or not or whatever, you know, as a high school student, it wasn't even about that for mom. It was just about making sure her students' experiences weren't tainted. And that was mom too. Just forever the hostess, forever the hospitable, warm woman, caring for other people around her. She was just something else, to be honest. Yeah.

Hi, my name is Katie and I am a friend of Amy, Hadassah's daughter. I had the pleasure of meeting Hadassah very early on in my friendship with Amy. My husband and I both had a very strong relationship with Hadassah. She was a

integral and huge part of the early years of our relationship. We spent a lot of time in their home, being part of their family, coming to holidays, coming to events, and always felt like we were her pseudo-children. She was one of the most loving, caring, kind,

funny, yet hard-headed and opinionated in the most wonderful way women that I've ever met. I always had so much respect for her, being a single mom, taking care of her kid, making a huge success for herself, and always valued any feedback, opinions, thoughts, feelings that she had.

She is very loved by my husband, Josh, and I. And we think of her often. Hello.

Hello, my name is Bridget Morgan, and I thank you for the opportunity to honor Hadass in this way. I met Hadass back in the late 80s. She was a friend of my then-husband. She had gone to high school with them, a group of them. They still connected. And she used to pop into the house kind of unexpected with her kids, and they gave us a treat to visit with them. And it wasn't really until she moved into my neighborhood that

a couple doors down from me that I really got to know her and the kids. Yeah, she absolutely loved her children. She was dedicated to giving them a good life despite all the setbacks that she had had in her life. And again, she just loved her children. And

Hadassah was a big-hearted woman, top exterior sometimes, always said it like it was, but absolutely loved making people happy, and especially with food. She was the typical Jewish mom that...

If you're not eating, you're definitely not happy, so she must feed you. But she loved – I remember going over to her house. She would have us over for dinner or for an event. You know, she was such a great host. The table would be impeccably set down to the finest detail, and, of course, anyone that knows her,

about her or knew her knew purple and red were absolutely her signature colors and that that woman could cook um I remember uh one thing in particular uh chili it was that kind of stick to your ribs kind of chili and I think it's the best chili I've ever had and she used to bring it over my uh

My husband would do some handyman work for her. She was a single mom, so she needed help in that way a little bit. And he would always get some kind of treat from her that she's made. And I...

Another thing was the falafel sandwich. Oh, my goodness. And the guacamole. Such good stuff. But she used to bring that kind of stuff over to our Fourth of July party, and people would just love it. But really what Hadassah was best at was being a teacher. You know, she taught with passion. She preached the value of math to the students. And, you know, she taught math the way that it was supposed to be taught. And, you know,

It really wasn't until I went to her funeral and 500 plus people and I was able to see the true impact that Hadassah had made in all of her students, her co-workers, her friends, and her family's lives. She will definitely be missed. Rest in peace, Hadassah.

I think mom was inherently an advocate. That's what her actions always taught me. As teachers, you also have to be an advocate. You know, with education, that's the first step to change. And then once you've got enough of that education, the next... For example, oh my gosh. And I mentioned an IQ test before. Like, I was being given an IQ test on mom's campus the day she had an accident. And that was the day that she launched her down her...

Path of, Lord, lots of physical ailments. But the events preceding that were almost even more formative for me. The reason, so I went to Calabasas schools my entire life, but there was a point where mom...

She wanted me to put me in like the gifted track and like in California gifted just means like, I guess it's almost a special need, you know, just they learn differently, maybe at a different pace. So my mom's goal was to put me in that program. So Rory and I had IQ tests on the same day. I guess like it was in Calabasas, you know, you can pay for an IQ test privately. Mom was a single mom, didn't have a lot of money. So she

applied for like a free IQ test. Both Rory and I went the same day. I remember that. We sat down to take the test. In a couple weeks, we got the results. And...

You know, Rory was highly gifted. I guess like the, you know, he's really smart, which was no shock. And I came back to imply I had a much lower IQ than expected. So mom was like, wait, hold on, what? And what had happened was we found out that mom wrote Rory's birth date on both Scantrons. So I tested much lower because I'm three years younger.

So mom was like, no, no, no, no, no. I totally made a mistake. I'm so sorry. Can we retest? No, we can't. Unless you want to pay the $500 for the test. And mom, of course, a woman of principles, very rigid principles. She was like, hell no, I'm not paying $500. I don't even have that. But no, I made a mistake. Can't you guys, you know, have a little leeway this once? And no. So my mom decided to switch my whole school district, um,

I left the Calabasas School District in fourth grade at that point and got a free IQ test from the district over. And was, yes, like everything was correct at that time. Her guesses were correct. I was put in the gifted program. I had two of the best educational years of my entire life at that school, Carpenter Avenue Elementary School in Studio City. And then I switched back to Las Virginas that year.

you know, in sixth grade in middle school with my gifted label or whatever at this point. And that experience completely taught me that if I have, you know, and I guess she didn't have to do all that. And I, at one point was not very happy about having to move schools.

But in hindsight, man, mom was a warrior. She was like, no, you're not going to, I'm going to find a way around your rules that are bullshit. And it was totally kosher. What she did was illegal. Wait, I should say that clear.

illegal, not illegal, but a legal way to do it. She taught right by the school I went to, which she switched me into. So it was like, it was absolutely okay to do that. And everything was by the book. And that's what mom showed me. It's like, you do you, you know who you are and you advocate for yourself. And if you can't, and if someone is getting in your way,

be kind, but still kick some fucking ass. Not physically, but like, you know, you, you advocate for yourself no matter what. There are hurdles in life. You will overcome them if you try hard enough. And that is exactly the type of person, you know, my mom showed me that in her actions. She showed me that in her words, even though she really didn't overcome her greatest hurdle.

of trying to help Rory through his difficulties her legacy still remains for sure what a fucking woman you think you know me you don't know me well at all

Something Was Wrong is produced and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese. Music on this episode from Glad Rags. Check out their album, Wonder Under. If you'd like to help support the growth of Something Was Wrong, you can help by leaving a positive review, sharing the podcast with your family, friends, and followers, and support at patreon.com slash somethingwaswrong.

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You think you know me, you don't know me well at all. You think you know me, you don't know me well. You think you know me, you don't know me well at all.

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