Waxahatchee Wants Public Beef
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You know what a lyric I think about a lot is? Go. The drinking bones connected to the party bones. Yeah, let's go! The party bones connected to the staying out all night long. Yeah. She won't think it's funny. And I'll wind up all alone. And the lonely bones connected to the drinking bones. You've seen the podcast. I've seen the podcast. How many episodes do you think you've watched? Well, actually, it's funny because I was going to ask you, like not that many, because I was going to ask you if I'm the first musician.

Is Katie the first musician? Hopefully, yes. It's going to be hurtful to whoever if I say yes.

I do think you are. Okay, cute. I love that. Breaking barriers. I know, trailblazer. Whoa. It just means I'm not going to be very funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're hedging. No, I really, I do need, I'm going to listen to your music after this. Oh, thank you. That's Caleb's favorite jam. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell them how I use this. Anytime Caleb sees me perform, he literally is like, I just checked out your music. I love it so much.

Really blown away. Really blown away. Oh, Brian's a musician. Yeah, of course. But Brian's also kind of a comedian. We had Brian Robert Jones on. Oh, okay. Of Para 4 fame. Yes, yes, yes. Of course. Yeah, that is my favorite joke to do to you. I think it's really funny. Yeah. Well, it's not as funny as feminine hygiene. I knew you were going to bring up feminine hygiene. I told you about feminine hygiene, didn't I? Oh.

Yeah. I thought about feminine hygiene today. So feminine hygiene for the listeners. I haven't talked about it on the podcast yet. Have you not? I don't think so. When you left, like when you told the joke and then you walked away, Shelby was like, Caleb's really like gotten carried away with feminine hygiene.

It's really like he can't stop making the feminine hygiene joke. Feminine hygiene is going to go ahead and be that a couple weeks ago I was in Paris with my friend Allie and we were in a pharmacy and we were, you know, it was like middle of a long day when you're out walking and it's really hot and I, Rocco hasn't heard this. Chance, have you heard this? Well, Allie and I, middle of a long day, I kind of wanted to make her laugh. You know, I was trying to get a good laugh out of Allie and we were in the pharmacy and

And we walked past the feminine hygiene section. And I said, feminine hygiene? All right, I'll give it a try. Hygiene. He still loves it. He still loves it. That's crazy.

What you're saying, you're saying hi to Jean. Yes. In a feminine way. In a feminine way. You're saying hi to Jean in a feminine way. As opposed to the meaning. I really think it's one of the funniest things anyone's ever said. I got it. Yeah. Got it. I got it. Got it. It's so brutal. I got it. It's so hurtful. I'm sorry. I came, I came to your concert.

In London? Yes. And in Amsterdam? Yes. Am I the person who's seen your concert the most? Yes, you are. Factually. I mean, unless like strangers may have seen more, but my people, you have seen the most. I'm pretty high up there. It's a good show. Thank you so much. You're doing good stuff over there. Thank you. How are you feeling about it? I feel good. I'm pretty like excited to hit the road again. I'm kind of like, I've got some momentum. Like, I don't really remember what my life was.

is like without the show. Like the show has become a big part of my everyday. Yeah, because how long have you been doing it?

Since April. And yeah, so a while I took I had a little break in the middle for like a month, but mostly I'm doing that show almost every day of my life. Yeah. Yeah. That's really crazy. Yeah. For a long time. Yeah. It's really the thing I'm most jealous of musicians. I say this all the time is that when you guys make an album, when you make a record, you not only get to tour it right away, which comedians also get to do, but you get to play it forever.

Like you get, you get to play the hits forever. Get to is such a sweet way to say it really is. And that's true. I mean, we do get to, it isn't like, it's a privilege to get to. Yeah. And I need to remember that. Cause I think in a few months I'll be like, I like my language in my mind will be, I have to. And so it's, it's beautiful. I get to, you're like, Oh fuck, we're playing Lone Star Lake again. Here we go. Here we go. Lone Star again.

Yeah. One star once more. Yeah. Once more. I don't know if you've said this every time, but you've at least said it a couple times that I've seen it. You, well, you put out a record this year. I did. Called Tiger's Blood. Yes. That's so good. Thank you. Critically acclaimed. Smash hit. People are loving it. Thank you so much. I'm going to like kind of sit in like a, like a curled up way. Do you mind if I get like really cozy? I wish you would. Okay. It's what the show's all about. Okay. I thought so. The show's about you. It's whatever you want. Okay. But everyone's loving it. Everyone's loving the album. It's so good. Thank you. And you have said a couple times on,

tour that your favorite song or at least one of your favorite songs from the record is Crowbar. Yes. Why is that? Tell me about Crowbar. It's a special one. It's really like I think to me when we were making that song like

There's some things about it that aren't totally like of this moment and of this time. Like it feels a little 80s or a little 90s. Like it's really, really like fast paced, like high tempo, up tempo. And when we were in the studio, we just like kept making it faster and faster. And it kept feeling less and less like a song you'd hear right now. I don't know why. Like it kind of reminds me of R.E.M. or something. Or like self-titled Lucinda vibes.

like kind of like 80s. It's giving 80s to me. I don't know why. And it's really, really fun to sing. It's in like a really like sweet spot of my range. So that's why I like it. But one cool thing about it is that it really has its people.

There are people who that's just their favorite song. And so I love to play it live and just the crowbar hive really just starts buzzing. Crowbar hive pops off. It pops off. It starts buzzing. You can tell there are some people. It's not like the whole audience, but there are some people in the audience who have been waiting all night for this.

for that, which is really fun. - That is really fun. - 'Cause it's not a single or anything, it's like its own special little vibe. - I also, as you know, we can cut absolutely any of this, so if I say something that you're not loving, don't worry, we'll cut it. But I told you in person that I thought this was so funny, but I saw a tweet about you that, do you remember when I told you this? - No. - This person said, "I love Waxahachie because what the hell is she saying and also, yes, girl." - It's so weird, like, I feel like on this album,

I've been getting a lot of feedback or like, honestly, what it feels like happens is like you or Alison or someone close with me, like we'll share something that's like being said about the record. And I'll be like, wow, I actually...

I think that that's really true, but I never thought about it. And it's making me kind of almost like... Not too self-aware, but definitely more self-aware. But that's been like... Repeatedly, people have been kind of saying... Like there was a Pitchfork article that came out. And the writer, this guy Andy Cush, he was like so sweet and amazing. But he said this thing in the article that was like...

like she's giving like too much and too little information at the same time. And I actually think like, yeah, that actually tracks. I, I, I'm not really like thinking about it like that. I'm just kind of like going into like a blurry frame of mind and writing the song. And then afterward I'm like, yep. And, and then people are, that's that song. And people are kind of like,

Giving me that feedback that it's sort of like I have no clue what the fuck you're talking about and also I love it Well, I think what it's tapping into is that you're one of the most interesting lyricists putting out music right now You are just a very well, you know, I'm a fan You are also a dear friend of mine So I love to gush about you but the your your your lyrics are really like they're the reason I love that tweet and I do hesitate to give this random Twitter user this this information I'm sure they're gonna watch this this amount of love for their little tweet, but I

What I relate to about it as a huge fan of your music is you will say things in a way that I'm like, I don't fully know what she was talking about when she wrote that or what you were feeling, but I do really feel it.

Like you can take it pretty far on a prayer that's pale and synthetic. Did I get those words right? You absolutely nailed that. Paradox poetic. Don't get me started. I'll do this all day. But I'm like, I couldn't put those words together, but it does just really like the way you sing it and the way it all fits in the melody and the, yeah, it just feels like, I do feel like, sorry, but she's so right.

But I don't know what we're saying. I don't know what she's talking about. It's so true. It's so true. You know what? People more and more on the show are starting to say so true when they're being interviewed in here. Oh my God. It's coming about. People can't help themselves. I remember you sent me this video of like you were at a coffee shop and a plane song came on and you were like listening to it. Just like a front facing camera like video of you and you're like vibing to it and then it goes off and you just look at the camera and you go, so true.

Well, what can I say? I'm a fan. Yeah, I do. I do love the album. How has it felt touring? Like, what have been the differences between touring this and... Well, St. Cloud, what was the... Did you get to tour that? Yeah, it was a little wonky, but we did. Yeah. Well, the record came out in March of 2020, and then I didn't tour the record really until like...

fall of 2021. So there was like a good solid 18 months of like, no one's really doing anything like with the record. Um, people were listening to it. And so that was great. And then when we did tour, it was like, people were really excited. So in a way it's sort of like worked out well, but it was like, um, it didn't really happen the way it was supposed to happen. Um, but we did get to tour it. Um, the show is just really different. I think this shows a little more high energy. Um,

you know, St. Cloud as a record is a little bit more, um, I don't know, like, I don't want to say austere, but just sort of like a little bit calmer. And, and this show, this set is a little more like high energy. It is a high energy set. It varies. Like there's a lot of moments where I'm like, God damn, they're really rocking. Well, you have like the best band in the world. Yeah, that is true. Your band is fucking incredible. Yeah, they really are. I bet,

Bad people, but really talented. Yeah, yeah. Totally. Mean, don't like hanging out with them. Really talented on stage. Yeah, and that's what matters. Yeah, they're like the sweetest people on earth. It's crazy. It really, honestly, it's amazing. They just throw the jersey on and just get it done. They go. It's amazing, yeah. And yeah, a green room vibe I think is so telling of what a group of people is.

Comedians, musicians, whoever, but how it feels in the dressing room after or before a show. And the vibes are so good after your shows. It's like, oh yeah, these are a bunch of really nice people who genuinely like what they do. Yeah, it's a really specific assignment, I think. Because you live on a bus all together, I think you have to...

be able to create the illusion of like none of us are here. Like we're all on our phone. We're leaving each other alone. You have to like be capable. You have to be a person that's capable of that. But then also when it's time to like all hang out, you got to bring the vibes. You got to bring like the positive, good energy. And you kind of have to be able to read the room and know what time, like what's going on.

like what time is for what, you know? And so I feel very blessed. My entire band and crew are all really good at that. It's really hard. It kind of is. I mean, it doesn't sound like it would be hard, but you'd be surprised. It's mastering social situations in a work environment, especially a work environment that's all about like

Like our job is all about perception. What people think of me, what they think of what I'm saying, how they feel about the things I'm doing on stage that like the ability to know when it's time to just shut up is really, really, I think it's like really hard. Yeah. And my claim to fame about this album, by the way, is that you let me listen to it a little early. Yeah. Cause I begged and pleaded. I threatened you. I think you did. Yeah. I was like, I was like, it was send it to me or else. And,

I texted you back. This is maybe one of my proudest accomplishments. I texted you back that my sun, moon and rising were three songs from the record that were the first three singles. And they were in order. And they were in order of when you were putting them out. It's pretty amazing. That's not bad. I was really impressed. That's not bad. I was really impressed. Pretty cool. I was like, you could like work in music. Like you could work in A&R. You're playing a dangerous game. Katie Crutchfield, you're playing a dangerous game right now. Do people know that you have an amazing voice? I don't know.

You know what? Actually, someone... I don't know if it was a comment or a DM, but did you see this? Some girl who claims to be a fan of mine...

or DM'd like this past week, sometimes against every device I have set up in my life, I will see a comment. And this person commented, she was like, she was like, Caleb, I absolutely love you. Like one of the funniest people alive. And like as a vocalist, I just want to tell you, you absolutely cannot sing, but keep trying. It's really cute. What? It was so. As a vocalist?

It was really intense. Okay, well, as I'm a vocalist and I'm telling you, literally like sometimes we'll be in the car and you'll just be like quietly singing along and I'm like, okay, he's a singer. Well, you've got quite a few tour dates left and there might be some opening slots. I open for you on tour and just do your songs. I would love that. I do like fire. I just do a really long fire. I think that would be great. It could be really fun. Get the crowd warmed up. Honestly, they'd probably love it. It would be amazing.

Yeah, well, you couldn't afford me, sweetie. You're right. I'm doing pretty big. To open as a singer, what am I charging these days? 20, 50 bucks? Something big. Love it. Something big. Love it. Wait, what was I going to ask you about? It was, I was talking to you about the record.

And then about my prediction of the singles. Oh, well, I wanted to ask you, would you ever consider on this episode, and you don't have to do it now, you can think about it and do it later if you want, but would you ever tell the truthers, the so true truthers, my favorite story of yours from Birmingham? Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Would you tell it now? I just, you know what the thing is, is that that story has never like hit harder than it did at that dinner. And I even tried to tell my band recently and it was one of those moments where I'm like,

You guys are really trying to be into this story. But I can feel that you're... But I can feel that you don't care. You're trying to get it up for me. Yeah, I can feel that you don't actually think that this story is that great. So maybe I'll just give that caveat, but I'll tell the story. Tell the story. I'm not scared. I'm not scared. Well...

When I was younger, like when I was in high school, there was like a war between the punks and like the kids in like the punk music scene and the skaters. And they didn't typically as like Tara, our dear friend Tara. Shout out, Tara. We love you. This is not the last time you'll come up on this episode, I'm sure. I

As our friend Tara pointed out, or maybe you pointed out, how did you guys tell each other apart? Yeah, because you're like, well, the skaters and the punks were always at odds. And I was like, the two groups of kids who should be looking out for one another? And should be... Really only in Birmingham would those two groups of people have found a reason. I don't know. It's so funny. It's giving small city. But anyways...

So this one summer, the punks and the skaters were at odds. And I was... And I want to just come out and say I have really nothing against skaters at this point in my life. You've gotten past it. I've gotten past it. I've known plenty of skaters that are really great and...

I hold nothing against skaters. But at the time, it was really gnarly. Like, it was... Like, people were pissed. And it was messy. And so, anyways, there was this one summer... That had already kind of been, like, underlying. And I think... Looking back, I think, like...

The punks and the community I was a part of, and this is going to sound like, obviously, I'm tooting my own horn, but we really had a conscience. We cared about the community. We felt like we were really about doing the right thing and looking out for each other. And then the skaters were really nihilistic and sort of just violent and fucking shit up.

And that was kind of their thing. Yeah. And so these communities were just really not vibing. So anyways, there was all kinds of things that happened. They like the big thing that that kind of is what caused it to really heat up is there

There was a venue called Cave 9, which is like where I came up playing. It was like an all ages space. It was an amazing place. And across the street from Cave 9, the skate shop that I won't even name moved across the street because I actually think it still exists. So they moved across the street. And that summer...

It was chaos. Like they vandalized the front of cave nine. They would come over to our shows and like fuck shit up. And then I'm sure like we would go over there when they would have events and like fuck shit up. And it was just kind of like, you guys are loosening the wheels on their skateboard. Yeah, exactly. It was like we were going back and forth. And I, in my memory, as my memory serves, um,

Like they came in way hotter than we did. But... Well, you guys had a conscience. We had a conscience. Yeah. And they were violent. We were like good. We were trying to do good in the community. That's my memory of it at least. So anyways...

So this one night there was a party, like a house party, and this war had just been like heating up. And it was a house party at like, you know, some kids in the music scenes house. It was all kind of like people in the like younger music scene in Birmingham that were attending this party. Big house party. Yeah.

And so everyone's drinking, Lord knows I'm wasted. This is when I still drank and I was probably like 19 years old. We're all partying at this house.

And lo and behold, a large group of skaters, both ones that we recognize from town and ones that we do not, roll up to this party. And everybody's backs kind of get up like, what are these guys doing here? And anyways, one thing leads to another. And one of the guys that we don't recognize starts kind of like groping girls in the party, me being one of them.

And so the rumor starts to spread. It's like, these guys are from California. There's like some pro skater here who everyone's like trying to impress. And we're just like, who the fuck are these people? And like, why are they at our party?

So this guy's groping people. Once he gropes me, you know, I get in his face. And I'm just like... You're not having that. I'm not having it. I'm like, you got to go. And then all my, like, friends kind of come around me. And, like, the guys in the music scene, like, they're kind of like, you guys got to leave. And it causes this big problem. Everyone's kind of yelling. We all are out on the front lawn. It's building to a crescendo. It's building to a crescendo. People are, like, throwing drinks, whatever. It's really chaotic. And then I say...

Something that will haunt me and haunts me still to this day, which I drunkenly say, this is my city. This is my city. And... Wait, I don't remember what... This is my city and y'all need to leave. Oh, and y'all need to fucking leave. Yeah, y'all need to fucking leave. This is my city, y'all need to leave. And...

Basically, what I'm trying to communicate is you guys are like from California. Like you don't even live here. You don't even know like the blood that's been spilled in this war. Like you guys don't even understand. Like this is a really complicated situation that y'all walked into. These hedonist California nobodies. Y'all, this is my city. Yeah. And so...

From that point on, anytime I went in public in Birmingham and I saw one of those guys, they would go, oh, this is your city. And still, literally a couple years ago, they're all into motorcycles now, and one of those guys said that. I walked into this bar with Kevin, and a guy was like, oh, this is her city. This is your city. I haven't lived there in 10 years. And Kevin was really spooked. He was like, who's this scary guy?

scary looking guy who's like yelling at you from across the bar. Kevin didn't know about your reputation. And I was just like, you know, whatever, ignore them. But, um, so yeah, that's my story. Shout out Kevin. We love you, Kevin. Won't be the last time you come up on this podcast. You know, if we didn't give Kevin the same treatment as Tara, it would have been real hell for us. Honestly, it's a really delicate ecosystem between the four of us. Um, there's a, there's a lot, there's a lot going on in our little friend group. Yeah. Our friend, the friend group is you, me, Kevin, Tara,

And then, well... There's side characters, too. There's... And it's not that there are side characters in our lives, but that foursome is a foursome. Well, because things have changed. Things have changed. People have come in and out, and people do come in and out, and they will. Yeah. But that foursome stays true. Has been the glue. Stays true forever, yeah. True to it, not new to it. Yeah. That is the groove. Do you think out of the four...

I personally think I am the least main character out of the four. What do you think about that?

And then maybe you're next after that. Main character? Yeah. And I'm not saying what you are, but sort of what you're giving. I think you are comfortable kind of pulling back if you need to. I'm really comfortable pulling back if I need to. I think Tara and Kevin, they push forward and soldier on as main characters always. I think it's pretty clear that Kevin's at the top of that situation. I think that actually, if we were going to rank, I would say Kevin's number one, Tara's number two, you're number three, I'm number four.

Yeah. What do you think about that? I like that. I'd love to know what they think, but that's...

I think we could probably all agree. We did this game recently about the friend group that was also for the listeners, so we're not doing so inside baseball. Our friend Tara is a brilliant... I've talked about her on the podcast before. Let's talk about it. Brilliant organizer, runs the Tenant Union in Kansas City, which we need to talk about on this episode. Yes, we do. And then Kevin Morby, who is a brilliant musician that Katie and I have a very identical relationship to. Yes. And nothing is different about our relationships with Kevin. We all do the same stuff. Yeah.

In public and private. But we did this game recently where we were like, who would do the best in the friend group with...

Like silence, no phone, being in the woods. Oh, yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah. I think it was who would do the worst. Yeah, we ranked again. Yeah, and Kevin and I. And I actually think the rankings were pretty similar. I think I replaced Tara in that. I think that that's accurate. I think it was Kevin would do the worst, die immediately. Yeah. I would die pretty soon after him. Yeah. Then it was Tara, then it was you. To be honest with you, I actually think that you and Kevin are probably tied, and me and Tara are probably tied in that.

Yeah, well, you have a real interesting relationship to the internet and phone and attention. You've maintained a lot of mystery about you. Thank you. Which is interesting. And a lot of freedom from the rat race, I feel. Yeah.

Thank you so much. Do you feel that? Yeah. Well, I try. I'm very intentional about it. It isn't like I'm just effortlessly like that. Like I actually like a white knuckle have to like make myself like that in order to like make the work that I make. I've I've a few years ago, maybe like when I quit drinking, I kind of realized there is a direct correlation with like how online I am and like how good the work I make is. I really started kind of.

playing around with that when I made Saint Cloud and I've just taken it all the way to now. So yeah, it's kind of like, you know, when I put

songwriting and making records and stuff, if I really try and make that like, well, that's my biggest priority is like making sure that I am like writing songs I love and I feel really good about it and all of that. If I make that my priority, then it's really easy for me to be like, well, being on Instagram or something like doesn't actually really matter to me that much. So anyways, and yeah, I'm very insulated from like,

pretty much anything anybody says um about me or really about anybody that I know so I you do often have to like text me memes or like things that people are saying you I will every once in a while get a phone call from you that's like hey why wasn't I let in on this thing going on in your life yeah I'm really mad it was on close friends yeah and that's where everyone else got it from yeah and you're not watching my close friends I'm not watching your close friends oftentimes like

Kevin or Tara will let me know what's on your close friends. They'll keep me in the loop. Yeah, they're kind of like printing it out and laying it on your desk for approval. It has to be a printout. Yeah, you won't hear about it. No. And it's kind of like when they bring the queen a box every morning of the news. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, of course. How the queen gets her little red box. I get a red box, yeah. And it's just my printed out close friend stories. It's your printouts, yes, exactly. Just me being like, think I might go to the movies. Anyone want to come? I have the least scandalous close friends of all time.

I love that. I believe that. Gay guy close friends on Instagram is usually one of two things. It's either like the most hateful, horrendous shit talking on someone that we all kind of know. Really? Just like brutal takedowns of like somebody we know. Or it is the most raunchy, unsolicited nudes you have ever seen in your life. And sometimes it'll be- See, that makes me feel like I'm really missing out. Yeah.

I'm like really missing out. Well, my gay guy close friends is literally just me being like, anyone want to go to Hooters? Anyone want to get chicken wings, respect the girls, and then see a movie at AMC? It really, it's not, there's nothing interesting going on online. You're not missing out. You know, I kind of wish close friends didn't exist because I really sort of wish that people were like beefing more. Like I wish that people were like just saying it like it is more. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Like I still wouldn't see it, but I mean, I just think public beef is,

I just wish somebody would go all the way to Courtney Love. Just take it there. I think it would be really interesting and exciting to have someone who's full villain mode. I think you're describing Azalea Banks. I was literally, as I was saying that, I'm like, I'm describing Azalea Banks. I wish more people would do that. I just think it's kind of fun. I think it's really interesting. Often, we just were... Sorry to pull the curtain back on the process here, truthers, but we recorded Bob the Drag Queen before this, who is...

amazing by the way i don't know if you know him no um like so funny and warm and beautiful um but i was saying i often on this podcast will flirt with being that kind of person because we're sitting here talking into microphones and so i'll just go full bore into talking shit on someone that i don't like because i think it's interesting and i'm like it it's it's okay they can say the same about me we can have a yeah i i do miss like when gay people were mean

You know? Yeah. Gay people used to be discerning and mean and it was awesome. Yeah. But then I end up cutting it because I'm really what it is is not that I'm scared to hurt their feelings or anything. Sure. I don't want to deal with it.

And I understand that. And as a person who can't even use social media because I'm like, my like sweet little process is like too delicate. I like, I completely understand that. Like I really believe me. I do understand it. I do think as a spectator, like it's kind of exciting because I do think everybody's like really safe. And maybe the world is better for that. I don't know. But I, you're like as a non-participatory podster, I would love to see people. The thing

about you is that you're so like genuinely nice and everybody can feel that from you like that's so obvious that you're not like a you're not like an a mean person so when you say mean things it's just like it's so true it's like it's so true and and that's what's beautiful the honesty it makes people trust you I think it's good I can be very cutting and I definitely have a lot of negative opinions I do think I'm kind I think I'm a kind person I think I'm fair and I think when I when I give it I try to only give it to people who deserve it that's what I think it's

Honestly, Kevin often, when he's been in situations where somebody was rude to him or something, he often is like,

I wish Kayla was here. Like, Kayla would have taken that guy down. Like, that's come up a few times where Kevin's like me and Kayla knows how to do that. And it's really cool. I like to think it's a power that I use for good. But I absolutely will. I do have it within me to really take someone apart. I love that. And I believe that. But you know what? If you have it within you to take someone apart, you also have it within you to put people together. Yeah. And I try to do that. And you do that. But I will do the taking apart.

taking apart if I have to. Yeah. And that's great. Your sobriety has come up a couple of times and we absolutely do not have to talk about it, but it's a big part of your life. Yeah. Are you cool talking about it? Yeah. What, what inspired sobriety? What has it meant to you? And I feel like specifically you've probably talked about this a fair amount. So if it's boring, we can certainly move on to you. It won't be boring to me or the listeners, but how has sobriety impacted the way that you make things in like your artistic process?

Um, it's so funny. I was like just talking about this this morning. Um, well, what inspired sobriety was just a drinking problem. That's so classic. Yeah, I know. It's classic. It's classic. I hate to tell you that's not very unique. No, I know. And it's not, it's not. Um, yeah, I had a drinking problem. So that's what made me want to quit. Um,

And I actually found, and I've said this in interviews before, but when I first quit drinking, which was in 2018, which was six years ago, right? Yes. Congratulations. Six years ago. Thank you. When I first quit drinking, I found like something I wrote in my journal when I was like 18 about how I like really needed to quit drinking when I was 18. Yeah.

So it was just like really powerful. And I, I think I always, there was always a voice in the back of my head subconsciously of like, I don't do this how other people around me do this. Like this is, this is like tormenting for me in a way that it isn't for everybody. And I had always clocked that and that little voice in my head of like, I think at some point I'm going to have to stop doing this. Um, that stayed with me from the moment I started drinking until I quit. Right up until, yeah.

So that was kind of my journey with that. I just sort of like, and I tried to quit a bunch of times and never fully committed to it. And then just one day I was in Spain. I was in Barcelona. I had a crazy night. I was really hungover. And I was just like, I think I actually finally am done with this. So yeah.

I stopped and it was really hard because I was on tour. And then I took a whole bunch of time off. I like called my manager, you know, that week I quit drinking. And I basically was like, when I get home from this tour, I need to clear everything off my schedule. I had like a few shows, a few things on the docket. And I was like, let's, I need to cancel everything. And I just need to take like the next year or so off to just like really get my head on straight. And yeah.

It was like really beautiful and also really hard. And that's when I made St. Cloud. I wrote St. Cloud in that time. And so, yeah, it like it was I was such a raw nerve at the beginning. And when I made that record, like.

I was just kind of like a ball of anxiety and I really struggled to write it. But then once I did write it, I felt like this actually feels like the most clear-headed thing I've ever made. And then obviously, you know, I was sober when I made my new record, Tiger's Blood, and that record was like actually really easy. I had like an easeful time writing that compared to

Saint Cloud or other records. And I just think like I attribute that to having just done a lot of work on myself and like really kind of gotten to know myself better. I just I do kind of generally feel like a calmer person. Just I think it comes with age, but also with sobriety and like all the work I do around sobriety. So anyway, yeah, I think I I think undeniably like my opinion is that I've made

my best work by far since I got sober and I hope that keeps happening. I think it will. I hope so. Just so you know. Yeah. And I do think it's nice to talk about it cause I think there are probably a lot of sober people listening and probably a couple of people who need to or want to get sober. Um, and it'll be helpful for them. That moment in Spain that you described, I, a lot of my sober friends, um, you know, hit rock bottom and feel like it's like the, I got to my worst place and was like, never again. It doesn't sound like it was, was it that for you?

I don't know. Honestly, like I think my rock bottom actually happened like maybe like a year before that. Um, and I had quit drinking. It's funny. Like,

I'd kind of hit what I would call a real bottom at like the beginning of 2017. And then I went on tour with Kevin and we sort of fell in love. And I was, I had quit drinking for a bit and I was not drinking at that time. And then we started dating and like my life kind of kept going. And then I sort of slowly integrated drinking back into the fold. And it was interesting. Like Kevin was a really good nonjudgmental mirror of like,

Oh, you drinking is different than you not drinking. That's just something I'm noticing. Kind of like he was really, he really never like, you know, judged me, but he did kind of let me know that. And like, Oh, that's yeah. And, and, and the way that he drinks, he, Kevin drinks in the way that he drinks so much healthier than the way that I drank. Like that was interesting to like,

I went through my Saturn return and I moved away from Philly. I was living in Philly at the time. All these things in my life were changing. And I went from having a lot of people that drank a lot around me to kind of suddenly not like a lot of my friends were sober, but I wasn't. So anyways, for all those things, like it gave me a lot of reflection that,

I actually think the way that I'm engaging in drinking is, is problematic and I might need to take a look at that. Take a look at it. And then that led to being like, I should just stop. I should just stop. Yeah. So I, I would say I hit, I, I've hit some bottoms, but I wouldn't really describe that as like a real bottom. No. You talked about, Hey, if I had a dollar for every time I hit a real bottom, you know what I'm talking about? Come on now. Love it. Love it. That's our Caleb. That's our Caleb. No, but in all seriousness, I am gay. Um,

No, you were talking about the juxtaposition between making St. Cloud and making Tiger's Blood. And I have been lucky enough to hear you talk about this a little bit in private and also with Brad in public, Brad Cook. Yes. A brilliant producer who we love. Imagine if Brad was on this podcast. It would be really good. Brad, please come on the pod. I would love that. I think the world of Brad. Yeah. We're new friends, but I'm like literally. He loves you. The moment I met Brad, I was like,

this is one of my people. This is my guy. This is my kind of guy. And Caleb, he literally has said the same thing. He has. He really has. He loves you. I love Brad. I think he's... I do... And obviously, I love his work. Like, I've been a fan of his work before I even knew him, which is a strange thing that has been happening a lot in my life the last couple of years. Yourself included. But those two... I feel like...

when somebody has a big, a big record, like, like, uh, St. Cloud was, and it gets a lot of attention and people really love it. And then you go to make another record. I feel like artists have this choice they have to make between, am I going to give, am I going to give the people something brand new that they didn't even know I could do? Or am I going to give them like a continuation of the things I've been exploring or the sound or whatever? And I feel like you, um,

you and Brad explored that a little bit when you were making Tiger's Blood. Yeah. Of like kind of where, what direction you were going to go with it. Will you tell people about that? Yeah, absolutely. I feel like talking to you about this stuff is so different because I can like joke around and it's just, I feel a little less like I have to be like serious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What if you started joking around and I was like, can you be serious? Actually, this is serious. Okay.

No, you can joke here. I know. I can just relax. And I hope you are. And I am. So, well, okay. So, you know, Brad's like one of my very, very best friends. He's literally like family to me. We were talking about what we were going to do next, like right, right away. And we kind of are continuously like having these conversations. I really, when I talk about like working with him and I'm sure other producers and artists, collaborators,

feel similarly, but a really something that feels really, um, like, uh, real between me and Brad is that like, I would say that our relationship, our working relationship is like 90% just us talking. Like we're just like building a world. And I feel like we've kind of built this like shared like philosophy over the years. Um,

So we were talking, we were talking about what we were gonna do and something that I think we both really wanted to like be confident to the other. So we weren't really talking about our like fear or vulnerability around following a record like St. Cloud up. We were both definitely feeling it. But we did say, I think the thing that Brad said early on was like, you know, I just, I want people to know it's not a fluke that we made that record.

That's all our big hope was. It's like, let's at least make something that we feel as good about as we do about St. Cloud. So that was kind of what we were saying. And I think, obviously, when that record, when St. Cloud came out,

My audience grew a lot and you know it was such a pivot from like what I had done previously so obviously that's a little bit of a roll of the dice we were kind of nervous about it and then people really reacted well to it which is very validating and yeah I think that we kind of put pressure on ourselves and I don't know why and I've talked about this a little but I think that

We just kept using words like it's going to be big. It's got to be huge. It's got to be epic. It's got, you know, and I don't really know what that like meant. It was just very like ambiguous, but we were like hyping each other up a lot. It's just like massive. And I think that what that actually did equate to is like pop. I think that we were kind of like, maybe we'll do like something that feels a little more mainstream or pop.

which is so incorrect for us, but we couldn't help but toy with that. So we were kind of talking about that and

We started like, well, first we demoed, we did a demo session with MJ Linderman, Jake, my dear friend. Incredible musician. Incredible. He has an album coming out. Just put a single for it. She's leaving you. Yeah. Oh yeah. She's leaving you. He's got Joker lips. That's the second single. So good. But we had him in the mix and we were just jamming. It was literally like he was playing drums. I was playing guitar. It was like really sloppy and like fun and just kind of like,

you know, just really organic feeling. And that was so exciting. And then we demoed my song right back to it and had him sing a harmony and everything just kind of shifted. Like the energy in the room just kind of got really focused after that. We're like, Oh, this feeling that we're all feeling, we have to like chase after that. And then Jake had to leave. So then we were like, okay, well maybe let's pull up my song 365. And we're like, let's pull that song up and let's try to program a beat to it. And like,

we were sort of like saying without saying like, let's try and let's try the pop side of it. Let's see how that feels. And it was so crazy. Like it felt so bad. I literally like dissociated and was just like on my phone, like Googling stuff and not listening to what was happening. And Brad sent everyone home. Like it was like maybe 2 PM and I like overheard him like send the engineer and one of the players home and,

And I was kind of like, why did Brad just send everyone home at 2 p.m.? And then we went outside in the backyard at his house. And we had this, like, beautiful heart-to-heart. We both cried. And we were both just like...

you know, scared like, oh my God, we're about to follow this album that means so much to us up and what are we going to do? And where we landed was like what we just did with Jake and how we were all just like jamming. That felt really good. And I think we just need to follow that. And I just don't think we need to like overcomplicate it. So we just, you know, we put a band together of like amazing players and

We went to the same studio, had the same engineer, kind of did everything the same with just a different group of people. And you made an incredible record that everyone's loving. Thank you. That's the facts. Thank you so much. It has been interesting. I've seen the show now in... I saw the record release in Chicago. I saw Opening Night of Your Tour in Kansas City. Yes. I saw the show in... Here. Los Angeles. Yeah. Amsterdam. London. Yeah. Yeah.

And which one will you be coming to on this next life? No shit. I mean, probably one or two, to be honest. I honestly would love it. I know. You're not going to be in KC in like the next few weeks, are you? I am going to Kansas City in a couple days. Because we're flying to St. Louis. What are you going to do in St. Louis? Like two weeks from now. We spend the rest of the podcast like working out our social calendars. I'm like, hold on. We can cut this. I know Seattle's going to be a fun one. I pull out my phone. I'm like, uh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Truly what we do every time we hang out. Just being like, wait, okay, three weeks from now for 12 hours, where are you at?

No, it is so good and it's such a beautiful record. I do wonder, you figured out the Waxahachie project pretty, you'd been doing music for a while. You had lived in Alabama, you had lived in New York, and Waxahachie came around the time you moved to Philly. Yeah.

No, it started in Alabama. What? Yeah. I really didn't know that. Yeah. My first record came out in 2012, but I made that record in like 2010. Um, um, and I probably had done a couple of shows, um, as Wax Hatchie and like as early as like 2009. Um, but I had another band before that called PS Elliot with Alison. Alison was the drummer. Um,

And we kind of kept going until about 2011. So there was some overlap. But yeah, I started doing music...

I played my first proper show when I was 15, so literally 20 years ago. So I've been doing it for 20 years. It's been a while. Yeah. Something happened when you moved to Philly that was in my mind, and I guess it wasn't that. But my point in all that is to say, what would you say to an artist who's really trying to figure out their voice and break through? I feel like...

When you're starting out in whatever your art form is, it's so stressful that you're just like, there are so many things I could say and so many versions of this I could do and so many different...

people I could be that like, I, it feels, I don't know if you remember that feeling or ever had it, but it feels overwhelming. Yeah. Like what would you say to a young artist who's trying to figure that out? Yeah. I think you have to like really try and intimately get to know like what's motivating you because I really think now it's way more even than when I was starting, like, you know, 20 years ago, 2004, things were so different then. Um, I think now you really try and have to like get to know what, what,

Like, why are you even doing it? You know, like, are you doing it because you really want to make something amazing? Are you doing it because, like, you want to get rich? Which, no shade. Like, that's great, too. Like, are you doing it... Like, what is it that's driving you? What is it... Like, who do you want to be? And I think once you really get to know that, then you can kind of, like, work out, like, your path a little bit easier. It's always hard for me to give people advice because...

I think that there's so many different things that motivate so many different people. And what worked for me, my story is so like, well, shucks, I just kept doing it and now I'm doing it, you know? Yeah, like a really annoying advice. Kind of. Just kind of keep at it. Yeah, just kind of keep at it. And I also like...

was really really really in my like local communities and scenes like all the way through and Really early in my career. I wasn't even really trying to have a career. I didn't ever think that was possible I just was like very excited to be with my friends and like that's why I played shows because I like wanted to like hang out and like be with everybody and just like play music, you know, it was just kind of for fun and

And then slowly it just kind of started happening, which is the most annoying thing to say. No, it's the thing about advice. Always. I feel the same when like a young, like a first starting out, like an 18 year old, like who's doing improv or something that's like, how do you make a career in comedy? I'm like,

I got so lucky. I have really no idea. You can work hard and be good. Yeah. I think additionally, nothing is like, nothing annoys me more than like watching someone who's really successful, like aggressively give someone who isn't like advice about, well, you need to fire this person or you need to do that or you need to, you need to be being paid more. You need to do this. And I'm just kind of like,

I think you have like a different perspective. That was kind of your thing. And like, I don't think you need to like tell this person to make that dramatic of a change. It might not work out the same for them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the only thing I ever think of that feels a little, uh,

applicable to anybody, at least in comedy, is, like, be prepared to pivot. Like, just know, like... Oh, yeah. Be prepared to pivot and, like, be able to do many things well and don't rely on... Don't rely on one talent that you have. Like, get good at business and get good at, like, booking your own stuff and get good at, like... You know, you should be able to do...

podcasting and stand up and writing and like there, there should be probably many things you're at least a little good at. Yeah. I do think like, uh, like it's a real blessing for me that I'm a pretty decisive person. I think like being, um,

Like, having a really loud intuition has afforded me a lot of, like, the good opportunities that I've had. I think that that's something I do see. I see people who are so, so, so talented but, like, are really not good at thinking on their feet. And that – I think that that's something that is helpful, you know? I think we share that. We definitely do. I feel very grateful for that. I'm like, I do see – if you put four things in front of me –

It's very easy and very quick for me to go, that's the one. Yeah. I do feel lucky for that. And same. Yeah. And same. And same. And same about me. Yeah.

Yeah. What do you want? I ask people on the show all the time. It's kind of become like a de facto. It's interesting. What do you want? Yeah. Like right now or? You know, well, it's funny. You know, it's funny because Bob, we just had Bob on and he gave maybe the most pragmatic, funny answer I've ever heard. He was like, I guess I want my next tour to sell out and then like plug the tickets. And then he was like, and then I want like chamoy candy tonight. You know, it was like very. Wow. But I think, what do you want? I mean, the show, you know, we made so true about,

Chance and I were talking about the show and kind of going like, well, I think I want to do a podcast again. I want to talk to people. And the show was kind of about what feels true and what feels, you know, originally we were going to like debunk some stuff and like get into the truth and all that kind of stuff. Cause you know, networks want to hear things like that. They want to be like right now, like, right. It's become harder than ever to tell what's really real. You know, they want to hear like, like in a time where it's impossible to decipher what's true, we're going to bring it to you from this gay community, you know?

And So True has been a big part of it and I do love it but What Do You Want has become kind of a big part too. What does Katie Crutchfield want? Oh my gosh. Everything I want right now is so boring. I'm just like everything is so boring. I'm like... I know at least one of your answers.

You want a farm with like alpacas. I do want to farm with alpacas. That is so true. That is so true about you. That's so true. I want to farm with alpacas. I want to be an alpaca farmer. It's an interesting time to ask you specifically what you want because you're in...

the middle of this like tornado of an experience based on this thing you made. Yeah. For still a while longer. But what do you envision after that? Are you going right back to the studio? Are you making another album? Are you taking a break? I'd really like to take a break. Yeah. I really would like to take a break. Um, I've been, I've, I've been working on some new songs. Um, and yeah, I'm trying to decide like what I'm going to do with them. Cause I feel like it's, it's too, or I don't, I, I want to like,

live a bunch of life before I make another record. I think like I want to have some new experiences. I want to age a little bit. I really want to be like

40 or almost 40 when I'm like giving my next thing, you know. Thousands of Waxahachie fans just passed away and died, by the way. Well, and it's funny because I was saying that a lot to Brad and the last time I said it, he kind of looked at me and was like, no more. Don't say that anymore. Because he was like, well, it's because we don't know. And because I have been factually writing a lot of songs. So...

We don't know. And I literally, like, I think before I made Tiger's Blood even, or maybe it was before I made St. Cloud, I was like, the next album I make will be, like, a solo, stripped down, just acoustic album. And then, of course, that didn't happen. Like, I said that publicly a lot. So you never know what's going to fucking happen. But ideally, yeah, it would take some time and really just kind of, like, focus on other things and just, like, my personal life and just kind of,

chill for a little bit and maybe write or maybe do other, other creative things. Um, but yeah, I think ideally I'm going to go hard for another couple of years and then I'm going to just like take a load off, you know? Hey, some people might be surprised when your acting career comes around, but I will not be one of them. I know the acting career is coming. You know what? I, I would, if the right thing came along and I, I acted, um, in my, in our friend Chris Goods, um, uh,

future movie that he's working on. Um, and I like, I have a little tiny part and I like for friends and with the right people around me, like I'll a hundred percent, um, I'll a hundred percent give it a shot. I don't think I'm really cut out to do something serious. I think I could, I can like be like, like,

like I could be like a bigger character, which doesn't really fit with my personality. I don't think, cause as we've established, I'm kind of shy. You're a little, you're a little bit mysterious. Just a little bit. I could see it. I could see you acting. I could see you. I could see you doing all kinds of things. Writing interesting as well. It's, it's interesting to me when musicians do sub stacks and yours is really good. Thanks. Yours is a lot of fun. Thank you so much. I,

really want to be like a like like I want my like fashion side to be more into it and so I'm trying to like insert that in a little without being too heavy-handed about it but that's kind of why I started sub stack is because I really miss like talking about my or like showing my outfits and stuff um and like that was always kind of a thing when I was on Instagram that I felt like people liked um so I'm kind of trying to insert that into my sub stack a little more but it's fun I just I

like to kind of like talk about what I'm listening to and what I'm wearing and like, just like the simple things in life really. Yeah.

It's nice, too. I didn't call myself an artist for most of my life. I think I really started to think of myself as an artist when I was into my 20s. And my whole life before that, I did not think I was an artistic person. I couldn't draw. I didn't play instruments. I played sports and did student council and stuff. And I more and more have begun to think of being good with people as an art form in its own. But I never thought of myself as artistic. And then the second that I did, it opened up everything to me. Wow.

And I felt like so, like you just, I feel artistic about everything. I feel like, yeah, everything feels open to me. Like I feel like when you call yourself an artist and when you allow yourself to feel creative, yeah, your clothes start to feel artistic and you're, I say I'm wearing Realtree and jeans. And it's art. And it's working. No, but I, you start to feel like anything can be like creative expression. Absolutely. And I mean, I really feel like what you wear is a huge creative expression and I

I've said for years, like that's like a huge, like how that feeds into my songwriting and music. Like it's just like another form of like getting my creative juices flowing. It's a really big part of it for me. Yeah. What do you think? I don't know if I've ever asked someone this question and you don't have to answer it.

If you don't like it, theme of the show, you don't have to answer my questions. But flash forward to all the records you will make and have made. At the end of it, what do you think you'll want people to have said Waxahachie's music was about? Or was like? Oh, gosh. You know, I just have always hoped people would think she had integrity and she was good at writing songs. And that's sort of all I really care about, that people just...

think it's good. And, and the songs are, they're catchy, but the lyrics are, are, you know, meaningful to people. And,

It's kind of really that simple. Yeah. I just, I, I, my heroes have kind of changed as I've gotten older, but like one of my biggest heroes, Tom Petty, I'm like, I just want to, I would love to be like Tom Petty, like people to just like, can like sing along to the songs cause they're fun and they're like really catchy and they're like these big pop songs, but they're also like the lyrics are amazing. And yeah,

Yeah. So I think like that's someone whose career I really look up to. What's a lyric you think about all the time? A lyric of Tom Petty's or anyone's. Any lyric that you think about all the time. You know what? A lyric I think about all the time, which I wonder if you like this song, is the first like verse of the song Valentine by Fiona Apple. I didn't see you Valentine.

You sent it via pantomime Or you didn't see my valentine I sent it via pantomime Or you were watching someone else I stare at you and cut myself So it's just like There's It's so great I actually cut that Because I don't know If I got that right But No it's going out live It's going out as a clip Yeah well Fiona Apple I love she has Because she wrote a song About Largo Yeah Which is pretty cool

There's one called Largo. I love that. Pretty cool. I love her. I think randomly all the time, you know, Andy Deruso and I will text, we sometimes will just randomly send each other this lyric, like either in text or a screenshot. I think all the time, I think it's a Clay Walker song. He says, and it's, he's not,

It's not my favorite song. He's not my favorite artist. I just think of this lyric constantly. He has a song called She Won't Be Lonely Long. Do you know that song? No. But he has a lyric in it where he says, Tonight she wants to hold a stranger, but not the one at home. Tonight she wants to hold a stranger, but not the one at home. There's something about that lyric is seared right in my...

It's a great song. And your voice. It's just so beautiful. You know what a lyric I think about a lot is? Go. The drinking bones connected to the party bones. Yeah, let's go! The party bones connected to the staying out all night long. Yeah. She won't think it's funny. And I'll wind up all alone. And the lonely bones connected to the drinking bones. Tracy Bird.

The drinking bone. Dude, that song. Caleb blew our minds with that song. That song is like. You brought that song into my life. That song went quintuple platinum in my uncle's garage. Like that song. That song is for a guy drinking alone in his Morton building. That song is. Oh, I love that song. So good. Country music, man.

That's something we really connect on. It's like 90s country. I did not know you liked country music. No, we really do. Especially women. Yeah, especially women. You and I love women. And we support women. We can't be stopped from loving women. I know. People try all the time. They say quit it, you two. I know. Can't be stopped. Katie, what's so true to you? I've gone back and forth about what I'm going to say because I think there's a lot of different things I could say that would show different parts of my personality. But something that's really been weighing on me

Something that's so true to me is I'm really annoyed that people keep saying Brat Summer is over. Whoa. It's really rude. It's really rude. There's literally like articles written about it. And in fact, I was at a festival in England and I said something about Charlie and they were like, well, you know, Brat Summer is over. And I was like, excuse me? I haven't heard them saying this. It's really not cool. I'm over it. It's not over. Ha ha ha ha.

I still listen to the album like every day because the thing is, is one of our greatest artists, one of our generations, the greatest artists made her greatest album and it can't be over yet. Sorry. Like it's, it's only been out for like two months. Summer's not even over. Summer's not over. But I will say I knew that she was going to suffer this because the second it came out and the second the, the type of gay man attached to it who did immediately, I was like, this is going to shine bright and fast.

The pendulum's going to swing. It'll come back. It'll come back. But Joe Manchin did a Brat Summer tweet. You know? So I'm a... And I understand, like, if people are saying that that's why it's over is because Joe Manchin made a Brat tweet, like, I get that, I guess. But I'm like, we got to still celebrate the album because it's a real, like, masterpiece. Yeah. And that, like...

I feel like that's something that's just sort of happening in our culture. Like things just happen so fast and people like make masterpieces and then very quickly people are like, okay, but it's over now. And I, I just think it's snarky and rude and not true. So you're not having it with people declaring the end of it. No, I'm not. It's not over for me. It won't be, honestly, it won't be over for me for a long time. You, you,

You have been bumping that. You've been bumping that for a while. Yeah. You've been playing it all the time. I've heard you playing it. I literally, when we just played, I wrote a sub stack about it, but when we were just playing in London, it was really sweet. Like I was in my dressing room

And the window was open. It was just like gray and like crisp and like London-y outside. And I like popped my head out the window and I just saw this like long line of people waiting to come into my show. And so I just put my little speaker right at the window and I just blasted Brat. I was like, I'm just going to play Brat for the people that are waiting to get in. Do you think they heard it? Yeah, I think so. I don't know if they did, but they had to have because I was playing it pretty loud. If you were in line for Katie's London show at O2 Kentish Forum, you need to make some noise in the comments that you heard this. Yeah, I played it for you. And you need to know that it was Katie doing it just for you.

That's really sweet. That show was really good. It was really special. Yeah, that was a really fun one. I love London. It's like one of my favorite cities to play in and we had a blast. They were lit. They were lit. They were like screaming. They were screaming words to songs that like I kind of thought...

I thought it was more of like an inner circle thing. You know what I mean? They're getting some of the words that I'm like, damn, everyone here is a mega fan. It was really cool. I agree. You know what else too? Like the politics of, of where people stand at shows, like it's a little bit messy. Um, and they did it just right. Like, I really think if you're going to be in the front, like if you're going to be that person, that's a, that's a big responsibility because if you're in the front, you're,

just know that we, I see you, I see you crystal clear and I'm looking for friends. I'm scanning to try and find my people. I'm looking for allies. I'm scanning. I'm looking for you. Um, and I think a lot of people who have been in that position know like I'm making eye contact. We're singing the songs together. Um, and,

And the thing about the people in the front is like, you have to bring the energy. You have to, like, if you don't, then that's that, that basically reflects on like our performance then makes us give a less energetic performance. And it's a cycle and it's, it's, it's a whole thing. It's reciprocative. It's, it's, it's reciprocal. It really is like we're exchanging energy. And, but the other, the, the other side of that,

coin is that you also can't be too much because then if you're too much then you distract us yeah and it's a little bit so you have to have the perfect balance for it to be like the best show ever which I'm very blessed there's a lot it's really really good most of the time and that show was pitch perfect it was just like

I had all of my people in the front. They were having fun. They were giving energy. I was giving them energy and it was so great. It was a fun crew after the show. So fun. Yes. People were there. Shad was there. Shad was there. You should have Shad and Liam on the podcast. I'm like, Shad and Liam, come on the pod. I did. I connected, I connected with Shad. I made a new friend that night. I think Shad will agree with me that Brad Summer's not over. I agree with you. Yeah. I'm with you. Thank you. I'm really supportive. That was a great, so true. People are going to love that. Thank you. The listeners are going to eat that up. Oh,

That's a really good so true. Thank you. I have a segment for you. Oh, yeah. I forgot. The true false. I'm going to be really bad at this, just so you know. The true false. Well, you did also hedge your really great Alabama story with it not getting, maybe not getting a reception, and it was received really well in the room. I hope so, yeah. You ever, like, tell a story, and you're like...

Shit, I think this is going like a little too long. That's how I felt when I was telling the Alabama story. That's my career. Okay. No, it is not. That's me on stage. No, you tell a perfectly timed story. It really is tough when you're... I just did this in London. I did two nights in London. Um...

of, like, a lot of new material. And I will say, both shows were great. Thank you all for coming. But first night was so hot that I thought the material was, like, way farther along than it is. Yeah. Even though it's, like, pretty new material, I should know better. And then the second show was, like, really good. It was a really good show. I'm being genuine, but I was getting sick. Like, to the point where I had to comment to the audience, like, I'm going to be drinking a lot of water and, like, I'm coughing a little bit because I'm getting sick. But they...

I got to that point in a couple of my stories where I was like, because I tell a lot of stories up there. I got to a point in a couple where I was like, you're confident because the first night went so well and you need to wrap this up. Isn't that so? It's really like sad, but sometimes when we have like a less than perfect show, Ellie, my dear friend and bass player, she has kind of put this in my head of like,

you know, dang, we didn't have the best show, but tomorrow, that means tomorrow night's going to be really good. Yeah. And that's really kind of true. And sometimes when you have a really good show, then you're kind of hit with like,

okay, but I can't have two great ones in a row, you know? Um, and sometimes you do, but you know, well, it's like a, there's anytime something amazing happens to me, it's the feeling of elation is cut at least a little bit with sadness that I know it can't last forever. I know that, that, that knowledge will join me at some point. Of course. And then, and then I'll be like, Oh, yeah.

You know, I just want good times to last forever. Of course. And Kevin Morby lyric. Goodbye to good times. Never want to. Okay. 15 statements. I'm going to read to you. You have to tell me as quickly as you can if you think they're true or false. And if you get 10 or more correct, Katie, I'm going to give you 50 US dollars. Do people like give it back? Like do they pay it forward? Most of them never get paid.

That's the secret of the show. Okay. But you're different because we are going to dinner tonight, you and I, so I'm sure I'll find a way to make it up. Okay, so A is the most commonly used letter in the English language. False. False. It's E. The T-Rex is the largest animal to have ever lived. False. False. It's the blue whale. Nick Saban was born in Athens, Georgia. True. False. Fairmont, West Virginia. God damn it. Greenland is the largest island in the world. True. True. Cheesecake comes from Italy. True.

True. False. Grease. God damn it. Rabbit from Winnie the Pooh uses she, her pronouns. True. False. He, him. I misgendered rabbit. Yeah, you misgendered. God damn it. Not a good look. Dr. Pepper is the oldest soft drink in America. False. True. Infants have more bones than adults. False. True. That is creepy. A cockroach can live for nine days without its head. True. True. Samuel Beckett rode a streetcar named Desire. False.

False. False. Tennessee Williams. Swope Park in KC is more than twice the size of Central Park in NYC. True. True. Let's go. Kansas City, shout out. Since 1912, Olympic gold medals are actually silver with gold plating. False. True. That's fucked up. I know. The world's gotten really bad. Monster energy drinks were invented in 1989. True. False. 2002. The space between your eyebrows is called the glabella. True. True. A monkey was the first animal sent to space. True. False. It was fruit flies. How'd she do? Seven.

Out of what? Out of 15. Oh, that's not so good. I knew. I knew. I was like out of 10? No, you did really good. I knew that when you asked the Nick Saban question when I was wearing this shirt, I was going to get it wrong. You knew you were cooked. I knew I was going to get it wrong. Yeah. You knew you were a little cooked. Yeah. You did pretty good. Well, wait. Thank you. I have a question for you. Okay. What is your perfect day in Kansas City where we both live?

People might not know that we're kind of neighbors. We literally live two minutes away from each other. Kind of cute. It's kind of beautiful. Caleb's gone and brought in my packages and things like that. You've been a really good neighbor to me. You've asked a lot of me. I have. I actually have. He's not even kidding. And I honestly, at any point, I can return the favor. I've done one single favor for you. Please let me. You let Kevin's parents in that time when they were locked out. The list does go on and on. You're right. It goes on and on. But we are neighbors. It's really cute. My perfect day in Kansas City. Gosh, yeah.

Gee whiz. I think I would wake up. I'll go to Billy's Grocery. You love Billy's Grocery. I'll go to Billy's Grocery. Leawood location or Midtown. Who knows? Either one. Yeah. Honestly, depending on where I am waking up, which I know where I'm waking up and I know which location, but I'm just going to kind of stay mysterious with that one. Then I would maybe go to the Nelson Adkins, walk around the Nelson Adkins, go

Walk around like the, the, you know, lawn of the Nelson Adkins. See a big shuttlecock. Why not? Why not see a big shuttlecock? Um, geez, what else? I would definitely go to loose park. That's my favorite park in town. Yeah. Love loose. Um,

Dinner at Earl's Premier. You love Earl's Premier. I love Earl's Premier. Dinner at Earl's Premier. Ice cream from French Custard. Ooh. Go to Big Mood. Ooh. And have like an N.A. Negroni. Come on. And maybe there's like a good DJ or something. And then maybe go to the Green Lady. Ooh. Hear some jazz. Should we all get on a plane to Kansas City right now? God damn, that's a good day. Yeah. Yeah.

That's like my basics. Yeah. There's a bunch of... There's so many. I could go on and on and on. There's so many good things to do in KC. We had a really sweet night recently. This summer. It was hot out. So I think it was the summer where we went to French Custard. Oh, yeah. We went to Waldo Thai and then went to French Custard. Yeah. Me, you, Kevin, and Tara. And we sat on the bed of Kevin's truck and ate French Custard. And listened to music. And I almost said drank ice cream. Ate ice cream. Yeah. Well, it was hot. It was hot. We drank a little bit. I love that. Like...

sitting in the back of Kevin's truck at French Custard eating ice cream is really one of my happy places. I really, truly... You know those moments when you're hanging out with your friends and you're like struck by how special it is? And I think it's because we all... I mean, it's special regardless, but we all travel so much. Yeah. And I knew that we were coming up on a bunch of travel and we're all going to be apart and being together specifically in Kansas City. Like, I knew I was going to see Kevin at one point and you at one point and I'll see Tara at one point. But when we're all together in Kansas City, I just was like...

I vividly remember the feeling of being there with you guys that night and having that like thing that washes over you of like, Oh, really try to take this in. This is special. I, every time I'm with you guys, like when, every time it's the four of us, I really feel that way. Um, I really, I just had dinner with Tara like the night before I left and at the town company, which is a great restaurant in Kansas city. Um, have you been there? Town company? No, actually. It's fantastic. Which is crazy. It's like Tom's distillery is right over there, right? Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah.

Kansas city. It's so good. What a place. It's so good. Yeah. Kansas city art. Well, you know, there's that Charles Goosewell quote that I think I've shared with you about Kansas city, that he says something to the effect of Charles Goosewell was like this, um, columnist in Kansas city for a long, very long time, very famous Kansas city columnist who I actually didn't know he was before my time, but I was going through a big box of like vintage books that my mom had thrifted for me for my den in Kansas, in my house in Kansas city. And I found this like, um,

book, this pamphlet about Kansas City with this guy's quote in the front. And I'm probably going to butcher it to some extent, but he said something to the effect of like, it used to be when someone asked me how long I've lived in Kansas City, I would say with a bit of provincial shame all my life. But now I say it as someone who knows his luck. It's where I've laid up my rich store of friends. Really beautiful. It is really beautiful. It's a special place. When I moved there...

I was so jaded about like everywhere in America because I traveled so much. I toured so much and I was just so like, I just don't want to live anywhere, which sounds really dark. But like I was just like every every city I was like,

I don't know. And I, I was living in Philly at the time and I knew I wanted to leave. And then I visited Casey with Kevin and was just so struck by like how much I loved it. Yeah. And I still feel, I'm like still very much in love with Kansas city. It just hasn't wavered. I am too. It's a perfect place. Well, no, there are many things we could change, but it has great vibes. It has great vibes. And, um, you and I are hosting on, uh,

In November, you and I are hosting our third annual benefit show for the Kent City Tenant Union. And I'm so excited about it. We're hosting it on November 23rd. Is this the KC Tenant benefit reveal right now? Oh my God. This will come out when we need to post about it. And that is so smart. That is so smart. And it's also...

So true. And it's so true. But Katie and I, Caleb Heron, Waxahachie, Benefit Show for the Tenant Union, November 23rd at the Midland Theater in Kansas City. We're going to have a bunch of our musician and comedy friends out. It's going to be great. And we're going to raise a bunch of money. We're going to raise a bunch of money and the benefit...

it keeps growing and it's just like such a fun night and I think we're gonna have a blast it's gonna be great we're gonna raise some money for an amazing cause it's our third year it's gonna be huge and yeah and by the time this episode comes out with Katie we'll have the link ready for the tickets and we'll have an Instagram page that we'll link in the description of the episode and everything you guys please go follow and if you live in Kansas City please get tickets we'll start to release the lineup a little while after this episode comes out but it's gonna be a good one Katie is there anything you want to plug or tell the people where they can find you

I don't know where you can find me, but I'm out there. Waxacady on Instagram. I have a sub stack. That's really my favorite thing.

to put out there. So look that up. And I'm going on tour literally in like a matter of days. The tour starts in Vancouver and it goes to the East Coast. We're going to be up and down the East Coast and there's a bunch of shows and some of them are sold out and some of them aren't. Katie will be performing in North America when this episode comes out. Go find her and also stream Tiger's Blood wherever you listen to music. Yes. I love you so much. I love you too. Thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. I don't understand why people talk so bad about you. You are fun. I know. I know. I know.

I get a bad rap. I really do. I do.