"Stephen Colbert"
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Oh, I'm so glad the other two couldn't make it today. I'm Sean Hayes, and I am the host of SmartList. It's a show where we used to have two other hosts. Can you believe the balls on this guy? Can you believe the balls on this guy? I'm Sean Hayes. Hello? Hello? When they fucking plug my mic in, I'm going to light this kid up. Oh, Sean. I was just saying. I was told that you guys couldn't make it. That's weird, because I was just saying to my friend, what a great job you're doing on the intro. Oh.

So where does that leave us now? Just kind of like a enjoy the show? Yeah, enjoy the show. Smart. Smart. Smart.

Sean Jason said to me the other night, he goes, I was FaceTiming him from his apartment. He goes, have you got it? Have you got like, like as if it was like, have you gotten into my crackers?

And I go into his cupboard and I open up and I had taken a photo of his fridge and all how bare it was. And I sent it to him and Kimmel in Thoreau. And then I said, I said, yeah, let's, let's take a look at these crackers. They are the most unappetizing looking crackers you've ever seen. Why? Cause they're not edged in cheese or they're not edged in anything. It's cardboard with seeds. And, and then he says, I just come back from working. He goes,

You eat after work? And I go, yeah, it's called dinner. You know, a lot of people do it. They've been doing it for a minute. And I was having salad with grilled chicken. He's like, what are you doing? Because that just doesn't compute for him because he just...

Jason, when's the last time you had like a burger or pizza or anything just horrible? I had a burger about three weeks ago and it was incredible. You guys should check into it. It's, uh, three weeks ago. Yeah. It's a ground beef and they, they remembers the date. Oh, sorry. Remembers the whole thing. Go ahead. It was on the calendar. It was on his calendar. Uh, the bun was soft, but with a crispy little edge to it. Um, I went ahead and had a little ketchup, uh,

lettuce, tomato, cheese. Oh, good for you. Jason's death row meal, they'd be like, well, what do you want? Most people, you know, I want a thing and a chicken and, you know, pasta with a huge thing and a sundae. And Jason's like, if I could have half a slice of a whole wheat pita, that'd be nice. And a half hour on the treadmill. Is it available?

Yeah, before he passes, before they wire him up to the chair. Listen, I've told you a million times there's a 600-pound man in here waiting to get out. I have to stay on the mouse wheel. Otherwise, it's not going to end well. He's got me on this lemon water now, too, which has nothing in it but...

Lemon and water guys speaking of 600 pounds. We have a guy today who has 600 pounds of talent Oh 600 pounds of talent. Here we go. What a description. It is not a good segue. It's the name of his autobiography Huge fan of this guy. I love that. You have no idea who it is. I'm super excited that he's on the show He's so nice to be here. I've been a fan of his and watching him for many many many years and

I've never done a deep dive on this fella and doing so for today, I had no idea we had so much in common. This is what we have in common. I'm from Chicago. He spent quite a while in Chicago, specifically at Second City. Not really in common, but go ahead. Specifically at Second City, which I also attended classes. He's Irish Catholic, youngest child of a massive litter. I'm also the youngest of a large Irish Catholic family.

He has a big love of Lord of the Rings franchise, and I think you guys know how I feel about all of that. Yeah, very. Yeah, a million times. We both grew up playing Dungeons & Dragons. We both have a connection to The Daily Show. What's so funny? Oh, no. Oh, no. What's so funny? Just the Dungeons & Dragons is just so... So you guys both just crushed a lot of ass growing up. That's covered. Sean, how excited do you get when you hear the sound? Pew, pew, pew. Pew, pew, pew.

I just soiled myself, I think. I get so excited. Okay. Guys, he's currently in first place in the million-year late-night talk show race. My best friend in the whole world, Stephen Colbert. Hang on. What? Stephen. What? Oh, I love the pan down, too. Tilt down. Tilt down. There you go. There you go. That's professional. That's how you get number one. Yeah. That kind of technical expertise. Wow. You're not going to get that from Kimmel or

Listener, he's in a very erudite, like library, home den. It's kind of exactly how... By the way, another thing we have in common, Stephen...

What is that? What is that? What is that? - It's a Lord of the Rings book, I think. - Lord of the Rings. - What's that? - I love it. I can't get enough of it. - One volume, Red Book of Westmarch edition of the Lord of the Rings. - Wow. - That's the Lord of the Rings. All of this behind me on this shelf is Tolkien commentary or the unfinished tales like, you know, the fall of Gondolin or the Children of Uren. Over here is more Lord of the Rings commentary.

That's Smeagol. That's Gollum right here. What's this? It's Sting. Wait, is that from the movie? Actual hero sword. He's holding up a sword. This is one of the fucking swords that was used in the movie. That's crazy. How did you get that? I don't care if you don't like Tolkien or the movies. You've got to like that. You must have children all over the world. How do you stop getting laid? How do you stop getting laid? How are you not getting laid right now?

I fight him off with this. Oh, that's another one. And Dural, which was given to me by Viggo Mortensen. Another sword. Fucking Viggo himself gave this to me dressed up as Eric Orr. No way. And it was the greatest sex I ever had. Wow. You and Viggo slept together? Is that? We're making news, guys. 100,000% as I remember it. Did you buy those or were they given to you? They were given to me. This is actually one of the stings from the Lord of the Rings. That's incredible. Wow.

And I had to actually pry these both away from my kids because when my boys were young, they would fight each other with it. I'm like, I could pay for your college with this. Give me that. Listen, Stephen, it's great to have you here on the show, man. Well, it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Of course. I am such a big fan. And just right off the bat, Stephen, is there some kind of like a mental adjustment you have to make in your brain to go from host to guest? Like is your instinct to take over an interview when you're the subject?

Absolutely not. I'm fascinating and I am fascinated with me. I do almost every interview I do, I'm listening to the person going, I could answer this better. I could answer. I've read your bio. I did the pre. I know exactly how to fucking kill with this answer and you are shanking this.

The urge to just say, go, let's switch. I'm happy to do that. Do you like that? Do you like when a guest comes on and they kind of freestyles and goes off script, basically? Do you like that or do you like sticking to it? As long as they've got a story, that's all I care about. The only thing you don't want is for someone to come on and they say, just ask them about their first day on set. Just ask them about their first day on set. And then you say...

So gosh, big. I mean, you're, you're a young actor. You're there with all of these like huge stars. What was your first day on set? Like, and they go, it was great. And that's it. Yeah. And then you go like, fuck me. They like, they don't, if they say they're going to do one thing and they don't do it, that's when you just want to open a vein because you realize there's another 10 minutes with this person. The other version is if somebody is super, um, Hey,

Hey man, I just put it out there in their public life. You know, and then you have them on and say, Hey, okay, put it out there. And they go, you know, people, people have different attitudes about things. Like they completely back away from whatever position or what their book says, right. Or, you know, some women are nice. Like, you know, whatever they, they don't, cause they, they see the audience, they see the audience and they'll say one thing on their stupid news show where there's no audience to yell at them, but they see my audience and they go, you know, I

everybody's got their opinions and they're worth like those. That's the worst people who kind of play a character. They lose a little courage when they get in front of the audience. Right. Will you go after them? Will you, will you sort of like privately resent, like privately, you're on my show. You should be, you should be entertaining. And will you kind of leave them hanging out to dry? Will you throw them a lifeline? Hmm.

I mean, I'm not there to stick a knife in anybody. Even on the old gig, I really wasn't there to do that. That was more of a legend. You've got a real gotcha environment over in your show, Stephen. It's a real gotcha. Well, when you're there, the general feeling from the staff is, fuck him up. Fuck this guy up. No, I get it. Fuck Will up, man. And I like it. And they're like, before I go on stage, you're like, you know, you come back with his liver on a stick? Or you fucking don't come back at all? Because we...

are hurt by his presence in this building. You know why? Sure, I do know why. And then I go, I promise you, I'll make him suffer. Though I'll tell you someone who actually is actually, I have a pleasant hostility with is, that's Jason Bateman. Dumb right here. Because I've interviewed you a couple of times and I actually enjoy, there's a pleasant hostility with you as a guest. And I mean pleasant. What does that mean? Don't you feel like there's a hostility? Like we don't get along?

Well, you're incredibly pleasant. Like you're such an enjoyable performer. There comes a but. But there is. There it is. No, and. No, you said but. Good for you. Okay. Good for you, and. All right. Yes, and. But there is. Okay. But there is.

In addition to your pleasantness and your wonderful, charming nature, there's something about you that's a little hostile as a guest. Yeah, it's anger. Listen, motherfucker. Hang on a second. I can't imagine I'm the only host who feels this way. We're friends. I might be the only one to tell you.

I look forward to it. I love a guest who's a little hostile. Let me just say this for Jason really quickly because you don't know this, Stephen, but one of the last times that Jason was on your show, he might have been a little hostile because he was going through something. Yeah, let me explain my hostility the last time I was on your show. Do you know about this? I don't think he does know. I actually don't know. I don't remember anything about the interviews, just that there was a sense of...

Perhaps it's defensiveness and the hostility is as a rose's thorns. Still beautiful, but defending oneself. Let me say this. Let me say this. Jason and I were going to do this press thing and he came and we were meeting at JFK. He was going to do your show and he shows up JFK late and he's a sweaty mess. And he said, how did Colbert go? And he's like, Jesus fucking Christ.

Right, Jason? Is that the setup? Yeah. You're great. All right. So here's, first of all, Stephen. Do you want me to tell the story? No, I got it. Is this a true story? This is a true story. Am I about to hear a true story? Yeah, it's a true story. Now, I will first say, in my defense, I have a British mother who was very sarcastic and dry, and so my sense of humor tends to be a little like that can come across as hot.

Okay. I apologize. You also have a lot of anger just below the surface. I've got some anger below the surface. Okay. So here's, here's the story, Steven. And I will say, I will apologize to Mr. Jimmy Kimmel right now because I told him about this and he said, Oh, you got to save that for the next time you're on. Um, so screw you, Jimmy. I'm going to tell Steven cause Steven owns it cause it was on his show. So here's, here's what happened. I come to do your show.

I'm in the dressing room there, which by the way, has no bathrooms. Okay. At least the dressing room. I got the dressing room. I got, I did not get the lead guest dressing room, whatever it was. There's no Johnny in there. So here I am. They put you in the pit. They put me in the pit. So I'm in the pit. And,

And my little suits in there, my little outfit, my little talk show suits in there. And everyone gets out of the dressing room so I can change into my suit and I put it on. And, you know, my wife likes me wearing stuff that's a little tight. And I don't like it, but I guess I lost the battle on this one. So I put it on. It's a little bit tight. And I'm thinking, boy, it could be less tight.

If I just let a little of this gas out, I just came from dinner and, and things have built up a little bit. And I feel like if I could just let this one bubble out, things would really work out for me. Again, let me remind the audience. True story. True story. All of this is completely true. Keep going. So, um, so how nice is this suit? How nice is this suit?

Armani. Please. What did you say to me? What is it, 1988? No, and it's not Hugo Boss either. They make lovely things. Something I can't even pronounce probably. Pierre Cardin. Pierre Cardin. That's it. So the suit's on, or at least the pants are on, such that I know I need to try to make a little bit more room here. And so I released the valve a little bit. Out comes less...

Well, it's more than air. Less than solid. Now, what are we to air time at this point? What are we to air time? We're four minutes from. We're four minutes from. You're well done with the monologue. You're probably in commercial break. And it's time to walk. I haven't even got the makeup on yet because a makeup artist is waiting outside the door for me to get the suit on.

So this is a problem, and there's a knock on the door. She'd like to get the makeup started. Stage manager would like for us to be walking. So now I've got to get the pants off, get the underwear off, and get rid of the underwear in the bathroom that doesn't exist there. So now I've got to bury the underwear in the trash can. I've got to top it with some Kleenex or something. A crusty loaf.

We usually have some bread and some cheese. No one's the wiser. No one can. And so, and so a couple of cans of LaCroix. So suit's still tight. Now I'm commando. Um, I'm not feeling great about myself. I've forgotten all my funny answers that I've worked on with the segment producer on the pre-interview. Now I'm sweating. I really need makeup. I got David Cross in the dressing room next to me, ready to pre-tape an episode. And he wants to talk. Um,

Um, and so I let him in. I let, I tell him what, what's happened. He thinks it's fantastic. He thinks I should lead with that. Um, I elect not to, uh, I get the makeup on the powder, whatever. I make it out there and, uh, and I sit down and we do our interview, uh,

And that is probably the reason I was less than chatty. He just shat his pants, Steven. You know? I mean, you know. Okay, now, you want to know why I'm mad? If I hadn't appeared on this podcast today, you would have told that story on Kibble. Good for you. When it's my trash can...

Good for you. And my show where that happened and you were going to tell that story on Kimmel. That's totally entitled to be. It's a good point. You should be double the angry you are now. You owe me underwear. Absolutely owe me underwear because. What size? Are we talking? Are you men's medium? M? Will? You're an M. Will? He's a boy small. He's a boy small now with his diet. He's a boy small. All right. What kind do you like? I like a boxer brief.

Got it. Okay. Doesn't crawl up your leg? With preferably sort of a rubber saddle to it. Hang on, there's a great question. He just asked you, does it crawl up your leg? Does it crawl up your leg? Because it crawls up my leg. No, it doesn't because the fluid in the seat of it keeps it weighted down. It's a mild adhesive. It's like a...

It's like a post-it note against your ass. You can imagine we're like, he's, how'd it go on Colbert? Not great, man. Not great. I took a shit in my pants and I had to fucking bury my underwear and I'm fucking, and now we got to get in an all night flight. And he's like, for fuck's sake, I'm fucking.

He was like very rattled. You know what, though? We can go down this rabbit hole, no pun intended, because I had a similar thing in grade school. I was in eighth grade. I raised my hand. I had already crapped myself in my jeans. I was 12 years old. I raised my hand. I said, can I go to the bathroom? And she said yes. I left. I walk into the bathroom. I go into the stall. I take my underwear off. I throw it into the stall underneath next to me. Sure. And then I hear all like the entire football team

come into the bathroom and they go whoa dude what the oh god and they open this thing that's tall next to me like holy shit that oh my god there's shitty underwear oh my god and i was shaking i thought it was gonna get literally the shit beat out of me again by these people oh bless don't we all have those stories well well you're up well you probably never have right no i'm good batter up will i uh

I don't think I do. Come on. You have a history with alcohol. You must have wrecked plenty of shorts. My life wasn't fucking train spotting, okay? I wasn't shitting beds, but...

But I will say that I did do a similar thing to you, Jason. I was spending the night with a lovely young lady at her apartment years ago, 25-plus years ago in New York City. Just a tremendous date and getting to know you. And woke up in the morning, had a little coffee at her apartment. And then it got away from me. And I actually ended up opening the small window in her bathroom and throwing my underwear into the courtyard. So...

so i threw it out of the building steven we're gonna complete the circle and we're gonna go ahead and complete the circle yeah start the interview sure i have one i have one story like that it involves conan uh o'brien i have one i have one story like that we were um people always say like hey do you good late night guys all know each other i actually have friends with conan it's one of a

late onset friendship in our careers, but we were out, where were we? We were out in, uh, Deer Valley, uh, in, uh, Utah. And I was skiing out there with my family and Conan called me up and he said, could I ski with you guys? And, and I was like, ah, you know, and he said, please, I

I have no, I have no friends and I frightened my family. And could I, and I said, I said, okay, I'll, I'll yeah. All right. And so we met at the top of a silver strike. You guys know, we met at the top, top silver strike. And, uh, it's just, it's just me and him. Cause my kids saw him and said, I don't want to ski with him. And, uh,

And they were fans of Leno. And they said, we don't want to ski with Tony. And I made them take a side. Because I thought, if you want to be in show business, the most important thing in show business is to be in a camp.

That's the most like talent. Okay. Dedication. But the most important thing is to pick a camp in Hollywood and never forgive anyone for anything they do. Right. Right. And, and they said, dad, we can't because we're Lennon. I said, I understand. And I'm proud of you. I said, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. You're crying right now. It should be pointed out. You're crying, telling this story about how proud you are.

And so they went off to do whoever with their mom and they went to go do that, get a big cookie size of their head. And so I get on the I got on the lift with Conan and and he is, you know, he loves the sound of his own voice. And so I'm on the lift and I'm like, we got the masks on. There's a chance for nobody to know who we are.

You know what I mean? Because we got the helmet. We got the goggles on. We got the mask. We can actually go out there and enjoy ourselves. He's like, I'm Conan O'Brien when we're in the lines. And his helmet is the color of his hair. Like his helmet actually is the color of his hair. Okay? On the back of his – Andy Richter's face is stitched into the back of his jacket. Yeah.

And I'm like, this is embarrassing. So we get on. We're on the – we're on the – we're on the – Chair lift. We're on the lift because it's not enclosed, which is a big part of the story. And we're on the lift going up. And he's talking – he's kind of obsessed with Lou Diamond Phillips at this time. Sure is. And –

And he's – all he wants to talk about is an officer and a movie. You know that thing on History Channel that Lou Diamond Phillips used to – Lou Diamond Phillips used to watch like Kelly's Heroes or something, and then he would interview someone saying, how was that tank battle? Was that accurate? And he's like, why the fuck does Lou Diamond Phillips – I know he was in that movie with like Meg Ryan about like – something about Denzel Washington. But why does he get to be –

The guy who interviewed officers. He's like, he will not let it go. He's got – sorry. No, but you know because he's interviewing these people as if he's had military service. He always does like a heel turn and salutes and shit like that. So Conan won't shut about Lou Diamond Hill the entire time. And we're going over – and I know how you're going up and you'll be going to others. You're going over ski runs. And this is out west where like it might take you 20 minutes to get to the top of the mountain.

So you're looking at other people and you're judging the way they ski and everything. And Conan, he, uh, he sees like a little, one of these little, like a conga line, kind of like toddler ski class going, going by. And he goes, I bet I could take a dump on those kids. And I said, I said, don't even joke about that. That's my children and their mother. Nice. That's not right. That no, they weren't my kids, but there was like,

you know, it was like whatever, like they call it the reindeer club or whatever it is, you know? And they all, they got the clips on the front of their skis. So they have to be in this. It's a French fry pizza, French fry pizza the entire time. Exactly. Right. Which is how Conan skis, by the way, it's all pizza. It's all pizza, French fry, which isn't easy at his height. And,

so we're going over one of these runs. I don't know. It's like, uh, homeward bound or whatever. One of those things like that, you know, and, uh, and Conan's like, I bet I, I bet I could do that. And I said, please don't try. And he said, too late. Sounds like you're daring me. And I'm like, you're in a full, you're in a full length.

You're in like a neck to ankle, like one piece jumpsuit. How are you going to do this? And he goes, zip. He's got a flap in the back and he just scoots it out. He scoots it out over the back. I swear, hand to God. He yells, Torah, Torah, Torah. That's his, that's his shit war cry? Yeah.

He yells, Tora, Tora, Tora. And just like – have you ever seen like those movies where like some sort of rescue squad has to put down a marker in the snow so a helicopter can find you? Like –

Or it's like the flame retardant coming out of the planes. It's the same color as his hair used to be. No way. 100%. A bright orange waist comes out of Conan. 100%. It's like he lives just on Dorito dust. And it just...

Absolutely. He dropped it like when he drops it like one of those planes that's firefighting. Sure. And just... And literally knocks these kids down. Lesson over. Absolutely knocks them down. Oh, my God. And with just a high-pitched cackle. And...

yeah and i'm like are you okay that is not and and again the color again was like remember when before he wore the wigs yes now it's all but he still had hair right yeah sure before and uh he's all proud and i i gotta say i'm i'm impressed of course i gotta say a man a man his age that control this is again this is 100 true 100 it happened true yeah

He might remember the story differently than I do. And we've never talked about it. You've never talked about it since? From that moment, we never talked about it. We made a promise. He looked at me and his pride, it went from like pride to deep shame. He goes, I want you to swear that not only did you not see that,

Like, you'll never say anything, but you'll never say we went skiing together. And I said, I won't ever say anything about us skiing together if you never say anything about it. Even that day? That second, from that second, didn't happen. Fuck around. We so appreciate the trust. And one of the reasons was, is because we get to the top, and obviously, who's up there? Cops. Like, they're like, because that is. I thought you were going to say Lou Diamond Phillips. Jesus Christ, what a ride.

So let's begin the interview. Sure. And I just want to say, I do want to add one more thing, if I can, before we start the interview. And none of this is recorded, right? No, no, no. This is all pre-interview. Yeah, this is all pre-interview. The one thing I want to say is that, again, as we remember things differently, and he'll remember it differently than I do if he ever talks about it again, is that the one thing I know happened is the Lou Diamond Phillips shit talk. That's the one thing. Yeah.

I'm not sure about the rest of it. Stephen, welcome to the show. Stephen. Good to be here. Yeah, thank you. And I love your short stories. They're going to cut together great. So listen, I...

I have been such a fan for so long. We don't have to go through your whole, I mean, people might find it interesting. I know they would. I know I would, but I don't want to bore you with you. So I want to know the trajectory of the late show with Stephen Colbert because I feel like when the show now feels like it's different than when it began a little bit.

It's different than it was a year ago. Yeah. Did you, at the beginning, did you feel like you had to conform into Letterman's kind of format or any pressure like that? And then realized, wait a minute, I need to do my own thing here. Like what steered it in the direction it is today? Just trying a whole bunch of different stuff. Like when I, when I started, I had never been myself before. I was like, I'm not a host.

I like hosting parties, but I'm not a host. I don't know what that was. I'd always even the Colbert report. That was that was a 10 year sketch. Right. Like I did a 10 year scene. I was doing a character really like that guy and I are not the same guy. And I worked really hard to never leave character. Like I work really hard. Like before I went on stage every night, I'd slap myself in the face hard.

I'd really just wake myself up, and I'd look in the mirror and go, hey, don't drop it now. You've been carrying this plate of glasses for six years. Don't drop it now. What was the purpose of carrying it for six years? So I tried to stay really –

you know, it's a character you wear as lightly as a hat, as the saying goes, lightly as a cap, but I still try to keep it on. Then I go over and I go, okay, so me, what do I want to do? I don't know. So I just kept doing different things for, I'd say six months. And then one of the things I was doing at the same time was actually show running the show. I was, I didn't have a show runner. It was me. Oh, yeah. It was, I had the old show and I thought I could do both. And,

I kind of lost my mind. I'm like, I can't, I can't, I'm not thinking at all about what I want to do comedically. I'm thinking about running the show. I got to say, Steven, it really struck me. I noticed one of the last times I went there, we did a, we did a bit and I came in a little bit early. We rehearsed it. And then, uh, and then I got a knock on the door and one of your writers, somebody on the show said, Hey, we're downstairs. Steven's rewriting the bit right now. If you want to come down, cause he's kind of changing it.

And I was so shocked by how close it was to showtime and you were downstairs and you were driving, you were at the computer and you were the one who was doing it and taking ideas from everybody and you were the one who was actually physically changing the bit yourself. And I thought, wow, that is so, what a high wire act. You're about to go out and do the show.

Oh, I still do that. That never changed. That's incredible. I'm talking about the show business side of it. Like I literally had somebody can't, I take all the show business side of it. So all I could think about was the comedy. And then that, that changed the way I did my entire day, which let me just think about, okay, I'm just a comedian or a performer here. And that's when I found out what I liked and what I didn't like about what I was doing. But that level of control was like, it was, I still, I still,

I mean, I can't imagine not like working on it till the last minute. I don't, I can't imagine. I can't imagine that because every day is this metaphor. John Stewart and I used to use, uh, back when I used to work with that guy is, um, it's like a distillery. Like the morning you get the pitches. That's like,

The corn. And then you mash it with the first draft. And then you take that mash and you check the alcohol level and you go, okay, let's rewrite it. That's actually to put it in the little thing and to get, get the pure alcohol out of it. And then the last rewrite, that thing in the room right before you go on, that's where you try to make it the way I would say it. Then you try to get it in your own mouth feel.

And that mouse feels like that's oak aging or something. That's putting in the barrel. So it turns into whiskey. And you can't always do that. But it's always the goal. I'd hate to not try. And it's not like you look at it and go like, oh, shit, that's brandy every night. Sometimes it's just moonshine. But you want to try to make it brandy if you can. Do you ever show up and it's in great shape right off the bat? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've got – well, listen, I don't know.

because there's a process that happens before I ever see it. There's the pitch in the morning, which I always hear. Yeah. And I weigh in on which of those I like. You know, we might get eight pitches and we'll write on, guys will write on five or four of them. And... So, sorry, what does that mean? You get eight pitches, eight pitches of jokes or eight pitches of ideas to do as... Areas, stories, like, because... This is for monologue or for after monologue? This is for monologue. I mean, there are other refillables that get written more like buckets. Mm-hmm.

You know, like they're not as timely, but the monologue, that first 15 minutes of the show, that is,

for lack of a better word, like that's the national conversation. What are people talking about today? And we don't, we don't dictate that. We literally have a guy we stole from Anderson Cooper's wonderful researcher named Brandon. We go, Brandon, what's the conversation? Where are the news trucks in the world right now? What's what? Cause I'm going to talk about that thing that the audience has heard all day anyway and have their own anxiety about it. What's the deadline on that? We record the show at five 30 and,

Cut off is about five. We have a late breaker team. We have a team that starts riding around three o'clock ish.

And the late breakers, before we put this script to bed around 5 or 5.15, we go, late breakers got any mini chunks, we call it? Anybody? Anything getting chunky upstairs? We got any mini chunks? And then we go, oh, we got maxi chunks because there was just a press conference or a new vaccine just came through or whatever it is. What's going to lead all the cable news tonight is what we're thinking. What's the lead? Because –

That may not be what we lead our monologue with. We might lead with something silly that just sort of like puts a little gas in the engine for the audience. But we're going to talk about whatever it is. We try not to ignore whatever the thing, even if it's tragic, sadly, because we don't make jokes about it, but we don't want to say like, hey, we didn't have the same experience you had as an audience tonight. That process took about six months to create the way we do it. And we've been doing that for about

five years now. Sean mentioned at the top when he was introducing you that you

You were at second city in Chicago. I know that you were a, uh, um, you were part of that whole gang. Who were you, who, by the way, who are your kind of your contemporaries when you were in Chicago? Cause everybody has kind of different classes that they were with. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's, there's two different things. There's, there's the people you watched. Yeah. Right. You wanted to be your contemporaries and then there's the people you performed with. Yeah. But in your mind, those people you watched are also like the people you were watching, like

The people I watch, the people who I first saw improvise, actually, not at Second City, but at this little club in Chicago called Cross...

cross currents. It was called cross currents and it was under the Belmont L and just really, really divey little place. Dave Pasquazy. Do you know guys? Yeah. Pasquazy was the first guy I ever saw. I went, Oh, I want to do that. I want to, I, whatever he's got, I want that, that little secret he has when he walks on stage. I don't know what it is, but I, I always want to know what it is. I'm like, how can you today? I still like, I kind of still want to be Dave Pasquazy, especially his ability to improvise, but who else was there? Um, who,

Mike Myers was on stage and Tim Meadows was on stage. Steve Carell, right? No, Carell was essentially my same generation. He was about...

He was about a year ahead of me. Second City works like a rep. Right, yeah. Like you come in and you learn like the last 40 years of material and you do that on the road. He was in that process like six months to a year ahead of me in that process. And what about like Amy Sedaris? Hired on the same day because there's a big casting call every year. Like 300 people come in and they pick like five, four, six.

My year, the people who were hired that August were, which was 1988, I guess, was me, Rose Abdu, Amy Sedaris, Paul Dinello, and Chris Farley. Wow. Wow. And Greg Holliman, but Chris Farley. So first-

Six months I toured with Farley. I toured around the country. He could do no wrong to me. Funniest guy. You know, people don't talk about Farley enough. People don't. I agree. He deserves a deeper memory in comedy. He's written off as just kind of like this big, dumb, sort of goofy who did big physical stuff, but there was such a purpose there. It was so sharp, right? Yeah.

He is. You're right. That's how he's written off. Not a dumb guy. It's so specific and so, and it was so spot on and it was so, so specific, right? So spot on. Just, you just, he and Sedaris had this thing. Like I remember that I saw them before I worked with them. I saw them on stage.

We were hired, but they were actually placed in the company first. And so I was literally still like waiting tables there. And I saw both of them on stage and I went, who are those people? First thing I ever saw Amy say is she walked on stage, door bursts open, there's this tiny little bundle of energy. She goes, oh my God, you've got a wet bar.

And just starts laughing like that and runs over and goes, now I want to see the cocktail she's going to make. And I went, I want to work with her. And then me and Paul and Amy ended up essentially working together almost every day for like 17 years. And you created Strangers With Candy. We were in a common law marriage for the next 17 years. It's great. And Strangers With Candy is one of my favorites. Yeah. It's fantastic. I heard that once you described Amy as like an idiot savant without the savant. Is that true? Yeah.

As a joke, as a joke to her, to her. Oh no, she knows. She knows. No, that I, yes, I think that, I think that might be her own accurate. That might be her own interpretation of herself. She would sit in the corner as we would like write changes with candy. And of course everything is written for her and around her. It's all built around like, what can we build around her? And Paul and I, it'd be like three o'clock in the morning and he'd be slapping on the keys going, okay, where do we go with this? And we'd be just sitting there in like,

The horror of the clock whizzing on the wall, like the hands going around, like we have to shoot this tomorrow. And then Amy would go like, but what if it was a squirrel? And we'd go, what?

She's like, what did I say? Like, you said something about a squirrel. And it would be exactly the right thing in that moment. And she wouldn't necessarily know that she had absorbed every problem we were trying to surmount. And she would just blurt out exactly the right answer exactly when we needed it. So the wheels are always turning inside that little coconut-sized skull of hers.

And she's one of those people who makes me laugh more than any. I just, I can't. She's like a drug to me. Yeah, I love it too. But speaking of that, Stephen, like just thinking really fast, you have such a fast brain. I love that you're like, you know, wishing you had as great of improv skills as some of the people you grew up with, but you do. I mean, your brain works so fast. Is it frustrating to...

To be with people like you who aren't as fast as I am? Is this agony to actually be doing anything with you to deign to condescend to appear on your podcast? Are you ripping paper? No, I'm enjoying myself. No, but is it frustrating being around people who don't think as fast as you or work as fast as you or work as hard as you or anything like that? No, I actually don't think of myself as that great of an improviser. I mean, I know a lot of people who are better than I am because I don't think it's necessarily about being fast.

I think it's being like honestly reactive because, you know, I, not to get too spiritual here, but the first guy I took any classes with, with Del Close. And while there are, you know, there are people have their own opinions or pros and cons about, you know, Del Close. I don't have much of an experience with him, but he, one of the things he said was that don't think that it's you don't

Don't think it's you that have to do this. You actually have to be reactive and just the universe is going to do it. If you actually do it right, it's just happening. You won't know who did it.

if you do it right. And I think that's sort of in some ways the opposite of quickness. That's vulnerability. That's vulnerability. And there are people who are great, vulnerable performers who I'm incredibly jealous of because I still have a need to please. And that can get in the way of me actually being a good improviser because you want to score. Don't you consider what you do on your show, your conversations with people as improv? Yeah. I do. Sure.

Sure. Being able to just be on your feet and be listening and then... Yeah, it's not... I mean, to me, the old show was more like improv because there was a character choice and then you were making performance choices in the moment. That was really improvisation. This one, I really, especially now in COVID, I just try to actually have a conversation with someone. It must be kind of harder now just being yourself in a certain way than...

spending all those years where you could, you were playing a character and getting, it's because you have to be much more honest again, without being too sort of, you know, corny, but you're being much more, just being yourself and being vulnerable in that way is probably more difficult. Yes or no. It was for me. Yeah.

It is for me. I mean, now I wouldn't want to do that old guy. Right, right. I mean, I didn't want to do that old guy anymore anyway. That's why I left. It's not like I got fired. I still like doing him, but I wanted to leave while I still liked it. And I never intended to be doing what I'm doing right now. Matter of fact, I already made the decision to leave that show before I was offered this one. That was, this was 100% a happy accident. Oh, wow. I had a whole other plan. I had a whole other thing I was going to do. What was that plan? What were you going to do?

I still want to do it, so I don't want to steal it. But I, honest to God, that's how showbiz I am. It's registered trademark. I was going to put that character into a narrative. I was going to put that character into an honest to God, like, half hour comedy. You should. You still can do that. I wanted to follow what he was going to do next. Yeah, but nobody can steal that idea because you play the guy. Half hour comedy starring sort of like the character from Kobe. Yeah.

- And like single camera or multi-camera? - I can tell you what it was gonna be. I can tell you what was gonna go with it. Is that in 2012, what gave me the idea was that I had all this money because I started a super pack. I started, I raised $1.3 million, which scared the bejesus out of me, by the way. We started as a game. Like on the old show, I like to always just do everything real.

you know and as my publicist once said to me carrie carrie by like my dear friend she once said to me hey i need to ask about this running for president thing everybody's calling me i just want to get you know everything nailed down here so i understand is this is this a joke or are you running for real and i said well if it wasn't real it wouldn't be a joke she goes

Got it, got it, got it. And that was the way we did it. I wanted to do everything for real. I really had a super back. I really wanted to raise money because I really wanted to see, I wanted to be the joke. The character was the joke. What made it easier for me is that anytime you would approach a subject, there is a base code of joke because the character's a joke. I could approach any subject and there would always be some level of comedy because the character would be the joke. And now there always has to be a joke.

And that's what's harder about now. I don't have to turn that extra knob to do the character. And there are times when I really do enjoy being myself. And I actually enjoy interviewing people more as myself. But I think it requires more of my writers in a way because they actually – our joke per minute ratio has to be much better because it's setups and punchlines. Right.

Do you give yourself the credit that you deserve for being such a great actor? By playing that character as well as you did, with no winking, to the point where... By the way, Jason, sorry. For Tracy in Wisconsin, we're talking about the Colbert Report. Right. Just so people know. We've never said what... We just keep saying the character. Where you played a fervent right-wing... What would you call it? Um...

Pundit guy. Yeah. So that, that took, that took acting skills. Hold on one second. I'm going to interrupt you because I'm the host. Uh, Sean, I question, I question whether Tracy in Wisconsin hearing Colbert rapport, if that helps her,

Any more than knowing that I'm Stephen Colbert and saying character, because if they don't know Stephen Colbert used to do a character, I don't think Colbert report is going to tip them off. Okay. Just calm down about all of that. And let's just keep going. Wow. I'm trying to give you the hostility that I got it. It's coming through. It's coming through. And that's the cycle of abuse. That's the cycle of abuse. Still trying to finish my goddamn question. Oh, well, we'd love you to fucking start it.

Hey, Steven. Hi. So given all of that great raw acting talent, do you have any desire to play characters? Like have like a acting career in and around your show? In and around my show. Now the show takes all of my time. You know, like I like, I'd much rather produce other people's shows. I like, I'd much rather take this.

and help people the way I was helped. That's what I'd like to do, like, while I'm doing my show. I think to really do a good job, I'd have to, like, stop doing the show, and I enjoy doing the show. I don't want to be... I don't think I could do, like, a side hustle as an actor. But could you see yourself doing, like, you were just mentioning, you know, the show that you wanted to do based on your character from Colbert Report. Could you imagine taking that character and producing it and potentially writing it, whatever, and running it and having another actor, say, like a Lou Diamond Phillips, playing you? Mm. Mm.

Is that something that you would consider? And again...

Now, wait a second. I was going to say no. Okay. I was going to say no until you said Lou Diamond Phillips. Just to get under Conan's. There could be a natural sort of war angle to it as well. Just knowing that Conan is so mad at him. Because Conan's like, where does he get off, right? Conan could do like a guest arc, like a stunt arc on it. It's producing itself. No, but all bits aside, could you see yourself producing like that idea that you had that you wanted for you, producing it for somebody else? Yeah.

I mean, I got that. I'd rather, I'd rather, I'd rather, I'd rather do something else. Cause that I specifically, there was things I wanted to do with him that were ways. What I liked about him was how he clanged up against the real world. Like,

going out into the real world and really upset people almost every time I did it. It was so fun. And, and, and now I, I, I honestly, I like people to like me as much as the next person. Sure. And so now honest to God, like, you know, I actually don't, I love the audience. I don't, some people have like a hostile relationship to their audience. Like I never feel like it's the audience's fault. If the show doesn't go well, I never blame them. It's always me. That's my job. They're like, they're amateurs. I'm a professional. Yeah.

And so I like people to like me. And so this is such a different job. Whereas that old job, it was okay if they didn't like me. That was kind of the purpose of him going out into the world was to see what this kind of character would be clanging up in his most extreme state with real people who weren't in on it. And given that, do you think in today's political climate that you could do that show today? Absolutely.

And no, I don't think, I think it would, it would, it would poke the bear too much. Wouldn't it? I think it would be too dark. I think our political climate has gotten, I could feel it. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to leave is I no longer wanted to, as I said before that I no longer wanted to sip that cup of poison because you had to sip a little bit more of it. You had to titrate it a little bit to go do the character. And I just couldn't even look at those people anymore. And now,

I would never. Can you imagine having to leapfrog the guy who was just to be worse than him? No, I know. Because he literally quoted my old character at times. Literally like word for word. What's the reaction you get when you go back to the South? You're from, uh, you're from the South. Yeah. I'm from South Carolina. All roads lead North from South Carolina. Sure. Nice. Sure. That's good. What's it like? Um, it's fine. I mean, I don't know. You still family there?

Yeah, yeah. And I married a girl from there. So like there's no debate about where we go when we have time. And we like have a place – we have a house like right across the street from her sister. It's like really – Oh, that's great. And her parents live in a block and a half away and my sister lives about a half a mile away. So when you show up in town, you don't have to wear a heavy disguise for protection. No, no. I don't think – I'm happy to say I don't think anybody cares about me. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

We do. Here at Smartless, we do. I don't get fanned at and I don't get hostile at. Unless I'm sitting in the guest chair. Is anybody, because you come from a large family like me, but not as...

nearly as large as yours. Is anybody else in the family, like, first of all, 11 kids you grew up with? There's got to be a gay one in there. Not that we know of. All right, well, hang on. Not that we know of. Hang in there. The door is open. Sure. Door is open. All love. What was it like growing up in such a massive organization?

Whatever happens to your childhood is normal. - Right, right, right, right. - So it felt perfectly normal. It wasn't until, I had no sense of it until I was in first grade. So I'm in first grade and the very first day of first grade, we all, the teacher, I forgot, Mrs. Poole, I think her name was, and we all had to sit up on the back of our seat. Like with our butts are on the back of our seat, our feet are in the seat of the seat.

And we're all to sit up there, and she's going to hold up her fingers. And when she gets to the number of children in your family, sit down because she's trying to get to know us. And she gets to 10, and I'm still sitting up on the back of my seat. Wow.

And she thinks that I can't count. She's like, I'm the troubled child. Because that's why she's doing it, to see if kids know how to count. And this is 1969 South Carolina. This is just like two steps away from To Kill a Mockingbird, this community I'm in. And the Yules live right around the corner. And

And so that's when I found out that it was unusual that you had that many kids in your family. And are you trying to replicate that? Do you have a bunch of kids running around there? How many do you have?

I'm trying to, but so far, just three. Just the three. Just three, but I'm not giving up. Do they know what you do? If my wife is listening, I am not giving up. We're both in our late 50s, but you know what? Have you heard of Abraham? Yeah, this is very threatening, man. Again, you might want to bring the tone down. Go ahead, Jason. Do they know what you do? Do they appreciate you, your humor? Do they give it up, or is it the toughest audience in the world like the rest of us? I don't know.

It's a tough audience. Yeah. It's a tough audience. I mean, I think they appreciate what dad does. Yeah. Tough audience. Evie's still a good audience. That's nice. She's my audience now because I got no audience when she, when she comes in and sits in the extra little red chair or the storage closet where I'm doing the late show right now, that's it. Like that's as good. I mean, I,

I actually said this on the show the other night when I started off, I thought like, God, I wish I could make an audience laugh the way I make Evie laugh. I could make it, but honest to God, because it was like, I could feel like the honesty and like the intimacy. Cause really that intimacy, like, what do you want? You're like, there's a sense of community with an audience if you get it right. Right. You know? And now she's it. That's it. Like she's the one I'm making laugh and it's,

Kind of joyful and kind of wonderful. And as sad as the last year has been, that's been a marvelous thing. Cause she was, she, she and my, the kids were my crew down in South Carolina. We bugged out one year ago yesterday. We left the Ed Sullivan theater. Yeah. And we went down to South Carolina and,

to help take care of her folks who were like, you know, in their nineties and they couldn't have any, anybody come in and help them. So it was just, you know, really Evie and her sister taking care of them. So we were down there right down the street and we couldn't let crew into the house. We had a satellite truck parked on the front lawn and,

Wow.

The first thing is my middle son, my daughter's in her 20s and out there with a job. But she was working. She was like working online in the kitchen. And my eldest son was my crew for the first couple months. And then he's like I'm – he was finishing up college. He's like I'm literally not going to graduate if I keep doing this, Dad. So his younger brother who was finishing up high school, both of them robbed of their senior years. They're worse things, but it was – I felt bad for him. Then he took over in tag team.

And then both of them are like, mom, like, well, we won't be, I won't graduate from high school. So then Evie took over and then she was my crew and which was just kind of great. And it was really like the old 19th century. Everybody's going to pitch in and help dad down at the lumber mill because we've got the pine, you know, the, the new lodge pole pines are coming in and we've got to make flooring or whatever they did in 19th century. So did they laugh at the jokes?

No. Everyone would laugh at the jokes. I don't think that my boys cracked a smile for five months because that's how long we did it. But they weren't really paying attention either. Right. But what they did, because they were just doing the technical aspects of it, but it was like lighting, sound, camera.

cameras, switching over like channels and everything, communicating with the people that they're on the headset, talking to the virtual control. Basically a live show. No way. Live show. I'm 100% crazy. They're on the kids on the headset going, hold on dad, we're switching satellites or whatever. That's what my boys are doing for me. And then my daughter's doing my makeup.

And then CBS catches when they go, oh, we could do this a lot cheaper. Uh-huh. Well, we actually had to get a union waiver. It was like an emergency. Of course. Literally, because it was emergency COVID, the union said, okay, you can do this. But it was kind of an amazing thing. But they got to see what my – I loved it because I think it's very helpful for everybody to become an adult to see their parents as human. Yeah, of course. I lost my dad when I was pretty young, and I was robbed of that ability –

to see him as not Olympian, to not see him, to see him as a human being. And so there's something stunting about your development if you don't get to see your parents as human. And they 100% saw their dad as human going like literally like in the middle of a monologue, just throwing my glasses across. And I'm going, I don't know how the...

fuck, I'm supposed to do this with no audience and like no sense of timing. Like I took the goddamn job at the late show, not because I had ever really like harbored this dream of being a late night talk. Cause it's real. It's a real late night. Like I didn't know what this job was like until I did it. No idea. I mean, my respect for like,

The Jimmy's and the Conan's and your Dave's and your J's and your Johnny's and your Steve Allen's and your Jack Parr's and your Dick Cavett's. I already liked them. I'd never had it. Like, I already liked them. But my respect went through if I went, oh, my God, this is a really hard job. And it's not anything like you think it is. Are you still loving doing it?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I want the audience back, but it wasn't literally wasn't on the bucket list to do this gig. And when I was offered, I went, God, it's the only fucking promotion I could think of is to take that job. And no one's ever going to offer to me again. I'll give it a shot. Right. Right.

I love a live audience. Thinking of it that morning and doing it that night and finding out because the audience makes the special sound with their mouths and you know that work and you get to pull another piece of Kleenex out of the box tomorrow. That's what I love about it. And I've been doing it for a year now with none of that. And my kids got to see the guy crump for the first two weeks. I kind of like just imploded in front of the camera. And then I went, okay, stop.

Stop complaining. This is what it is. And then I found some real enjoyment in it. I found actually an ability to like take, take some risks that I couldn't with a live audience. That's all. And it made me think of Jason too. Cause you said you, you know, your daughter did your makeup and Jason's daughters do his makeup every morning before he goes to the mall or whatever. And I think that that's nice too, to have that connection.

You know what I mean? We got to connect once a day. Yeah. Yeah. You're dying to get back to audiences then. Right. I think that'll happen probably in the next two, three months. Right. Somewhere between three months and three years from now, because you keep on getting these different messages from people, but I think people are getting shots so quickly now.

you know, when people can like show proof of vaccination and we can do like a, like there are like seven minute rapid tests coming down the pipe when we can do that. Right. And I can have 400 people that I don't want, I want to go back on that stage. Like I left that. I bet that's June. I mean, now that Biden said May 1st, everyone's going to be, everyone's going to qualify.

Uh, that's, it's June, right? Middle of June. Yeah. June, July, maybe after the 4th of July, something like that. Cause if Biden says we can all get together for small parties, you know, in 4th of July, I think it's reasonable by mid July. Cause we're off for those two first two weeks.

By mid-July, we might be able to do that. But don't hold me to that because I don't have any idea. Oh, well. I don't know who else to hold it to. Yeah, me neither. It kind of feels like it comes down on you, man, a little bit. We'll come back to you and ask you what happened. If it doesn't go the right way.

Have you guys ever talked to Conan? Cause he talks a lot. We talked to Conan. We cut him off though. We cut a fucking, I want you to promise me you're not going to broadcast. You have our word. Because I promised him. I promised him. Wait, about the ski trip.

That about, about, uh, on the ski, he said, I beg you never say anything. This will ruin it. We've already cut that. You have our word. You are a very, very generous man with your time, your spirit, your stories and your laughter, Steven. Oh, Steven. Thank you so much. Thank you very, very much for doing this. Thank you, Steven. This was so fun. You guys.

This was worth burning a couple hours on a Saturday. I hope so. We appreciate it very much. Thank you for being such a nice guest. Have fun. See you guys in the wrestling room. All right. See you, buddy. Bye, Steven. Thank you. Thanks, man. Thank you. Bye, buddy. So are we really leaving? We're really leaving. Yeah, yeah. We're really leaving. I just know what one of those things were. You broke me with the Conan story. You fucking broke me in half. I never recovered. True story. I never recovered. True story.

So we cannot use that is what you're saying. How about this? If he ever talks about it, if he ever, if he ever said anything about me dropping a deuce when we were skiing, if he ever says anything like that, then I'll bet her off obviously. But I don't know anything about that. Cause that never happened. According to you, the other one never happened either.

What, what, what? Did he say anything about me? Cause I know nothing about this. Listen, no, I can't, we're not allowed to say anything about anything. We're with an NDA with you. We're going to NDA with him. Yeah. Okay. So you're saying he said something. I mean, I can't say that he said anything. I don't even know. I'm not even allowed to acknowledge the fact that he can talk. Okay, good. Good. And whatever you do, whatever you do, do not broadcast the fact that up close, Conan looks like one of those guys. They fish out of a bog in Ireland. Yeah.

like who was sacrificed in some Celtic ceremony, like 3000 years ago. And, and like you see him in a museum in Dublin and they look like a catcher's mitt up in Cooperstown that was used by like shoeless Joe Jackson. They forgot to oil for a hundred years. You don't want us to say that you don't want us to have you on record saying that. That is, that is super important. That not,

Of course. And we'll respect that. We'll respect that. Right, right. Exactly. Because he still can bust a move in this town and I don't want to make any enemies. You're safe with us. We understand that. All right. Goodbye. This is for real. Goodbye, Stephen. Thank you. Goodbye.

Wow, Sean. That guy should host a talk show. And let me tell you something. He knows how to get a conversation going, knows how to keep it going. Keep it going. Okay, so that was crazy to hear Colbert tell a story that feels like we heard a different side of. Yeah, Conan has a completely different. And the question is now who's the liar, you know? Right.

And I guess this is where it comes into what camp are you in? Are you in Colbert's camp now? Right. Or are you in Conan's camp? I'm going to say, at first, I believed Conan, but, you know, now that Steven was just on, and maybe because he was just on...

He was extremely persuasive in his dance. And specific. And he was very specific, right, on the story. He seemed a lot more specific than Conan. He actually implied or even said that the excrement was safety cone orange. Yeah. Obviously, again, as Colbert pointed out, in show business, you have to pick a side and you can never deviate from it.

But I would say that knowing Conan, you know, historically, I've known Conan for whatever, 20 years. He's such a fucking liar. So it's hard not to just immediately assume that he, because he is such a untruthful fucking person through and through. I mean, when you run into him, he opens with a lie. I don't know. Do you trust the fucking liar or do you trust the guy with the...

I guess I'm going to go Colbert. Yeah. Yeah, I'm team Colbert. Let's just do that. Let's just land there for now. Yeah, for sure. All right. Great guest. He is, though. I mean, to be able to sustain the energy to do a daily talk show where you have to be, you know, interested every single day

uh and write all of that stuff and it's just i know he's such a unique town i don't really know him i know him from through the bizdistry through like uh award shows and stuff we'd always end up getting kind of corralled into the same area uh for a number of years um i guess quick wit i think that's background holding as a prize that's what they call it yes yes because that's what the bh was for yep and um

And then they would, but we, and he was always, he and his wife were always so delightful and sweet and funny and cool and normal. Yeah. And then, of course, as a performer, he's just hilarious. So funny. Yeah. Here's the thing. Conan is such a liar that last year he tried to convince me, honestly, with a straight face, he tried to convince me that he grew up in Mumbai. Mumbai.

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