"Mike Birbiglia"
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Hey guys, so if I had a dollar for every time somebody comes up to me and asks me what my morning routine is, I'd be like a billionaire. Here's what my morning routine is. I get up and then I brush my teeth. Welcome to SmartLess. SmartLess. SmartLess. SmartLess.

So, Will, I had a dinner party the other night that I was invited to. Sean was invited to. We were both there. You were invited to as well, but you were working down in Atlanta. And about halfway through it, maybe halfway, someone said...

Yeah, Sean and Scotty left. They're gone. I know. They're gone. So now's your chance. I haven't seen you, talked to you since. Did you have a sickness or something? I have this thing about the dog. I have this thing about like leaving the dog for more than four hours. The dog that he left for eight months in New York, he's worried about leaving for four hours for a different person. Yeah, exactly, Sean. Same dog? No. Pick up from there. No, because the dog was left alone. The dog was left alone. So when the dog's left alone here at the house...

Who doesn't leave their dogs alone? I know, but not that long. I have like a thing about it. Well, you got to get over that thing because that excuse is so outrageous. But it's not an excuse. And it's a long life. It's a long life. You can't be tethered to your house for... But when you tell people, I got to go because I'm worried about leaving my dog for four hours, they're just going to think you're rude because no one's going to believe that that's a real thing.

Well, I'm telling you it's, but what if I'm telling you it's a real thing? Well, then they should say you should go to therapy because it's just, it's an irrational fear. Well, I don't know.

Well, what do you think people do? You see, have you ever seen... You ever seen anyone go to work? Have you ever seen real people go to a job before? You know, like an eight-hour job, which is a short... You know all those people that you see filled on the buses and you're wondering, like, fuck, why is this bus holding my lane up? Boy, there must be so many dogs dying. They're all going to real work. All the dogs are dying while they're on the bus. All those dogs must die all day. Jesus Christ. All those buses that are filled with people going to do real hard work while you're... Just a bunch of dog murderers. While you're rushing to go get your fucking eyes checked because... They obviously don't have a healthy relationship with their pet.

They have left the path. You know what? It's a little lower on the list of priorities. You know what I mean? No. Sean, you would have, had you stayed, you would have seen me have one of my low points. Yes. Well, Amanda told me. So I told our host, I've told my host a few times, anyone that will listen, I've probably bored you guys with it before, that my kryptonite is giving toasts. I just can't do it. There's something about it that doesn't make, it's not comfortable for me.

- Yes, I understand. - Which is why you should keep trying. - Well, you gotta think about somebody else, I guess, is the first part. - Well, that's just, I guess so, yeah. Instead I'm thinking about me and embarrassing myself and I should just be kind of just channeling love for the other person, but that's a great note. I'm gonna use that next time. But anyway, I didn't think about it at the time and the host drops a microphone in my hand and I totally froze up. - No. - And you forgot where you were. - I didn't even think, I could have just bailed out and said,

You know what? Happy birthday. I didn't even think that. I thought I had to come up with a bit. I thought I had to do like a set. So what did you do? And I said, I literally said out loud, oh my God, think of a good dad joke.

And I couldn't even think of one of the many that you've told me. And I just looked up at him. I must have looked so horrified and pathetic. He looked at me with such pity and just slowly pulled the microphone back out of my hand and moved on to someone else. Yeah, well, it's not for you. It's not your thing. It's not my thing. I can't do it. That's interesting. I mean, if we think about it, considering how you've been performing since...

Yeah. Yeah. You were such a little kid. But I get it. There's something different about a microphone, a spotlight, and a stage. I'm not comfortable with it either. Me neither. But you know what, though? I have a good friend who forced me to, anytime I went to her house, she would make people stand up and give speeches. And at your birthday, like two, three years ago, I started the speech thing, remember, at Richard's house? Yeah. And I was like, oh, get up. Everybody say something nice about Jason. And

And I do it because I'm scared of it. Because I'm like, I have to work through whatever this is about public. What's that? Leaning into the fear. Yeah, leaning into the fear. And every time you do it, it gets better and better. Well, I hope so. Because that was very humbling.

Let's get our guest take on how fucking rude Sean is and what a baby I am. I pulled a Batgirl and I left him at the back. Here we go. So, guys, today we got a fellow who is funny, okay? But he's not just funny. He's also smart. He went to Georgetown, for Christ's sake. His mom is a nurse. His dad's a doctor. But he's not just smart either. Guys, he also is our least favorite word. He's a storyteller.

No kidding. But a real one. I like that. Some folks have referred to it as a comedic monologue. But he's not just that either. He's also an actor, a director, a writer, a husband, a dad. And right now, he's our guest. Oh, that was great, Jason. Please welcome the man of many things. Comedy's Swiss Army Knife, y'all. Here he is, Mike Birbiglia. Oh!

Mike Birbiglia. I think Will was just saying the other day, you know, we should get Mike Birbiglia on the show. Wait, you've been on my list for like three years. We have talked about getting Mike on the show. And I, Mike, hi, Mike. Hey, how are you, Will? I already had him. I'm really good, man. It's been a minute. It's been since we were in Popstar together, I think.

No, no, no, no, no. It's been... I've seen you since then. Oh, no, we did that benefit for Canada. You came in very kindly, did that benefit. Talk about a guy who stood up in front of people during the plandemic when you guys were all worried about when the government was trying to depopulate. I forget what they were trying to do, but they were trying to do something. Ha, ha, ha.

The government had this crazy plan to get us all. And we... Mike kindly, we did this charity for this hospital in Canada, and he very kindly showed up and did a set virtually, which is...

so fucking hard. Oh, wait, so you-- And I had such admiration for what you did. You were so funny and so fucking good, Mike, and doing it into a camera. - It was honestly-- - I loved it. It was like via Zoom or something? - Yeah. - Yeah? - Wow. - Stand-up via Zoom. And all the people, thousands or hundreds of thousands of people in Toronto for this thing were watching him, and he's gotta do it with no crowd in front of him to the camera. And I thought, man, that is-- First of all, you gotta be really funny to pull that off.

Thanks a lot, man. Yeah, it was fun. It was very kind of you. Anyway. And, well, you know, the other thing about that gig, it ended up being a seminal thing for me because Steve Martin also performed. Yes. Well, Steve came and did a Q&A with me, which was also kind, yeah. And then I did a joke that he... So I had a joke that's in my new special, The Old Man in the Pool, and I say, I love pizza so much, I get excited when I see the word plaza.

That's a great joke. Because the word pizza is exciting. It has pizza in it. Each of the Zs is two slices. The A is a slice. It's five slices in one word, which is a rarely used literary device I invented called onomatopizza. Now, the reason why I bring this up is that Steve Martin was on the Zoom with us, and he wrote me a side note, and he goes...

Hey, I love that onomatopizza joke. And I immediately put it in my show and it's in the final show. And it's because of him that I put it in. No way. Yeah, true story. Did you grow up loving Steve Martin? Were you a huge fan?

Oh, my. I mean, the great, the giant. I mean, honestly, like Born Standing Up, his book. One of the best. I read it. Yeah, one of the few books I've read. It's so good. One of the great books about comedy. And then when I was starting out on the road, driving around the country and listening to Steve Martin albums. I mean, that's all I was listening to. He was in the audience for Old Man in the Pool, and...

When he is in the audience sometimes for my shows, I feel self-conscious because I'm looking at him going, I have stolen this all from you. Right. Yeah, yeah. Now, Will, you know him a little bit. Why haven't you gotten him on the show yet? Well, we've talked about it. I know Steve a very little bit. And Sean does too. And he's very good, obviously, really close with Marty Short. And first of all, I thought, Sean, when you said to Mike, I thought you said,

Did you grow up loving... I thought you were going to say, did you grow up loving pizza like I did? That's my follow-up. But yeah, I feel the same way. I love Steve as well, and I read his book like you guys and was just blown away by it and just everything he says and just...

you know, he's Steve Martin. What do you say, right? Well, that he can write stand-up, he can write books, he can write specials, he can write movies. He can play music. But also, what I love about him too is he has such a wider view. There's so many people we know who do what we do. Yeah. But have such a...

who really kind of, that's what they are. They're a stand-up comic or they're an actor and that's kind of what they do. And Steve has such a broader view of the world. You know, he collects art. He's interested in music. He does a lot. And he is truly a well-rounded person. Why don't you save this for when you get him on the show? I was going to say, remember when you work a little bit more. Let's talk to Mike. Because I'm saying that Mike appreciates him in the same way because he read his book and appreciates him. And I think that Mike, a lot of your stand-up also is about not just about...

It is kind of like you're-- you are a storyteller. I hate saying it. Oh, God, I can't believe you said it. -No, I know. -I don't mind that word. You don't. Well, in this context, it's filmmakers that are called storytellers. We have a tough time when filmmakers go, "As a storyteller, you wanna--" "You know, I'm just a storyteller."

Yeah, yeah. Okay. I get it. But you, Mike... But you, Mike... That's what you do. Yeah, it is. And so it's not joke, joke, joke, joke, joke. You're walking people through a situation, and in that situation are many funny things. Yes? Yeah, because I think, you know, it started out in... When I was in college, I was studying screenwriting and playwriting, and then I was...

doing stand-up at a comedy club in Washington, D.C. And I was working the door, and I was kind of watching all these comedians come through. And then at a certain point, I kind of merged those two things, and I started telling stories. I started telling stories on This American Life and on The Moth. And then I created what, you know, I started... My first one was called Sleepwalk With Me, one of these solo shows. And Nathan Lane presented it, and it really actually kind of changed my life. It was 2008. Yeah.

I love that. What are you doing studying screenwriting at Georgetown? Isn't that supposed to be like the law capital of the world? It is. You know, it is. But in my class, in my screenwriting class, it was Jonah Nolan. Oh, okay.

Sure, sure, sure. Who went on to write The Prestige and Memento and all kinds of amazing stuff. I'm going to look those up. I'm going to look those up. Jordan Ardino, Brendan O'Brien wrote Neighbors. Like, a lot of people, there were a lot of writers who ended up in this, it was this class of,

It's taught by this guy named John Glavin. Wait a minute, JB, you've offended a lot of great writers. I'm just saying, it's sort of a backhanded compliment. I mean, that place is a very difficult school to get accepted to. You also have a law degree.

Yes, exactly. I also have a law degree. I picked up a lot of degrees there. But no, I agree with you. Storytelling is one of those things where when you say, I'm going to tell a story, people are like, oh, God. But I think the key to it is it just has to be funny all the way through. Yeah, I love story. I think it's a very unique skill because... And there are a lot of different kinds of comics and some who just are like...

We know them. Some are just like absolute, just a joke, just a line, just a turn of phrase or whatever, and that's their thing. But to be able to tell a story and hold people through a story and be kind of funny the whole way and then pay it off, it's really satisfying as a...

as an audience member. Now, let me ask you this. It's tough to do. It is tough. What would you say, since you've had these great one-man shows, what would be the difference, considering your stand-up style is much like what one would consider maybe a one-man show would be like? What would you characterize the major differences between your one-man shows and the work that you do, the writing that you do for a stand-up set?

I just think like a typical standup is basically built on the premise of you have a series of set up punchline, set up punchline, set up punchline. I, my, my sort of like what I've learned through the years is,

those jokes can be part of a five-minute story. And if you have 10 five-minute stories that add up to a single story, that's really the goal of all my shows. And if there can be an emotional payoff at the end of it, you know, like the last show I did on Netflix was called The New One. It was all about how

All the reasons why... That's a great title. Hang on a second. It's all about how I never wanted to have a child and then essentially how I had a child and why I was right and then ultimately why I was wrong, you know? And that's the emotional turn of it. But I mean, I've always just felt like...

It's kind of a matter of like, what do you want to pack into your 90 minutes? It's like, that's why I love movies. Like, I love movies because... One of those big tens of caramel corn, you know, a Star Wars movie. Yeah. And maybe, sorry, I'm sorry. I thought you were saying, what does Sean want to pack into 90 minutes? No, it's just...

And some dumplings. You know those big tins? It's like a big tin and it's caramel corn. By the way, I relate to Sean going home early from the party. Yeah, me too. Oh, my God. Are you kidding me? But you would have stuck around, Mike. Mike, you would have stuck around. You're a good guy. But wait, Mike, just to close this loop. So if one were to go to one of your Broadway or West End or all these other places you've had such success with your one-man shows that are –

different than going to see you do a set at a at a comedy place doing a stand-up what would what would what is the difference between your one-man show and and doing like a a stand-up special so this so a stand-up when i when i do clubs or like i'm going out on tour right now with my next show which is called please stop the ride and it's like 25 cities and that'll be stand-up it'll be

The early stages of what become my one-person shows are stand-up. It's like a bunch of jokes. It's a bunch of stories. It's free-form. There's improv. Anything can happen. And those shows are fun in their own way. And then at a certain point, like, you know... It's less scripted. Yeah, and then at a certain point, like, when I first started out...

with these shows in 2008 with Sleepwalk with me, I started working with this director, Seth Barish. And so over the years, like we'll construct, we'll go, you know, he'll go, you know, what I get from what you're saying as a story is this. And I'll go, oh, okay. I wasn't intending that. I was intending this and I'll rewrite it. And it's kind of like a series of revisions and revisions and revisions until I'm actually conveying the story that I'm intending and what's in my head basically.

And that one sleepwalking with me was motivated, birthed by, prompted by...

Tell these fellas, I've done my research. Tell these fellas what that, yeah, that's a literal title. So Sleepwalk With Me is based on a story that happened to me, which is that I have a very serious sleepwalking disorder called REM sleep behavior disorder. I want to ask you about that. And so it started out,

Years ago, I was in my 20s. I was living with my girlfriend at the time. I started having a recurring dream. There was a hovering insect-like jackal in our bedroom, and I'd jump on the bed and I'd strike a karate pose. And my girlfriend Abby would go-- Did you know karate? No, no. I had the books from book fair when I was a kid, but I never took it. Okay. But I, you know, I jump on the bed and she-- I said, "There's a jackal in the room." And she goes, "There's no jackal." And I go, "Okay," and I go to bed.

And then it got increasingly worse. And...

I had this incident. I was in Walla Walla, Washington, which is in eastern Washington. That's where it all happens. And I was at La Quinta Inn. Sure. Another hot spot of trouble. And I had a dream that there was a guided missile headed towards my room. Sure. And there's all these military personnel. I jump out of bed. I say, what's the plan? And they say... What's the plan? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm very action-oriented in my dreams. I'm a hero in my dreams. Were you in the pose still? I was in the pose. I was in the pose. Yeah, yeah. Fuck, man. And they say, it's come to our attention, the missile coordinates are set on you. And I was later diagnosed with the same thing, REM sleep behavior disorder, where people act out their dreams.

And so I decided in my dream, and as it turns out in my life, to jump out my window so as to detonate outside the window for the sake of the platoon. Oh, my gosh. And you remember the dream that vividly? I do, yeah. I literally, it's funny you should say that, Sean, because I wrote it down that night. I took photos of it. You know, I post some on my Instagram sometimes. Like, the actual, I jumped, there's two important details. One...

I was on the second floor. Two, the window was closed. It was January. So I jumped through a second story window like the Hulk, like the Incredible Hulk. Yeah. Now this was going to help your situation in what way though? You said to detonate yourself? No.

Yeah, that's a very great question, Jason. It's to detonate outside the window for the sake of the platoon. But the missile was incoming. Yes, indeed. Yeah, but it was coming. But it was on me. It was on him, dude. Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, okay, moving the target. So I jump through the window. And these are guys that you've been in the shit with, so you want to save...

You want to save, obviously you guys have been through a lot. You're like brothers. Yeah, we're like, we're a band of brothers in Walla Walla, Washington. Gotcha. We'll be right back. And now back to the show.

So you decided to move the target away from whoever you were sleeping with and the other people. And you were going to, yeah. So you land in the parking lot? I land actually on the front lawn of the motel. And I take a fall and I get up and I keep running. Oh.

Oh, my God. And I'm running, and I'm slowly realizing I'm on the front lawn of La Quinta Inn in Walla Walla, Washington, in my underwear, bleeding. And I'm like, oh, no. But in that moment...

I was relieved that I hadn't been hit by the missile. Yet. Sure. I remember that. Yeah, exactly. I thought that would have been a disaster. At least I'm still in the game. Wait, so the fall didn't wake you up? Fall? The fall sort of woke me up. Well, hang on. The going through the glass window didn't wake you up? Or the big gash? No. No? No. I went to the front desk and...

And I said, hi, I'm bleeding. I'm in my underwear. Yeah. And I go, hey, I'm staying at the motel.

I had an incident wherein I jumped through my window. By the way, years later, I got an email from this guy at the front desk saying, hey, I was the guy. Oh, my God. I'm at the motel. I'm staying here. I jumped through my window. I'm going to need a second key. I'm bleeding. I'm bleeding. I need to see a doctor. I need a second key. And he goes, all right. And he goes, and so I drove myself to the hospital.

And I checked myself. You know, I went to the... I had to explain three times what happened. The nurse, the receptionist, the doctor. No, I'm the Hulk. I'm the Hulk. I'm the Hulk. You know, one guy was like, no, you're Bruce Banner. I was like, point taken, nerd. So you still think you're dreaming? No, no, no. At this point, no, no. At this point, I'm kind of aware... No, no, no. At this point, he just thinks he's the Hulk. Dude. No, so I explained what happened. The doctor...

It took glass out of my legs. Literally took glass out of my legs. The glass was about a centimeter from my femoral artery. And if it had struck there, I would have just bled out on the front lawn and died. And then I flew back to New York and I did what I should have done when I saw the jackal and everything. I went to a doctor who specializes in sleep disorders and I was diagnosed with this serious thing.

Fuck. But that story, so that story in the context of my first solo show, which was called Sleepwalk With Me, and it became an independent film and everything, and it was... That you directed. That I directed. Awesome. Thanks. And...

It was, I mean, thematically and in real life, truthfully, it really was. It's really about denial and about being in denial of the fact that I have this sleep disorder and not dealing with it. Do you still have it and suffer from it? And what do you do? So I was diagnosed with REM sleep behavior disorder. I was prescribed medication.

And I still had sleepwalking issues. And I said to my doctor like, hey, I still have this sometimes. And she goes, well, one thing you could do

is you could sleep in a sleeping bag up to your neck and you could wear mittens so you can't open the sleeping bag. - Great. - And so I did that for a period of time. I don't really do that as much anymore. - Until summer. - Yeah. Probably dropped a lot of water weight in there. - But, uh... - Oh, wow. So she said do that, and then that worked for a little while, and then... - And then what? So what do you do now? - And then what? Then just meth? Just fucking I'm not sleeping ever again? - Yeah, no, no, that's... - I've been up for two years. Strap you down, right?

I've been up for two years. I've been up for two years and fucking... I want to fucking beat this thing. Hey, first of all, Mike, I just want to go back real quick. How'd they get the missile? How'd they get your coordinates? That's a great question. I mean...

I think about this all the time. I actually didn't... I don't watch shocking movies. I don't watch things late at night because I worry that it's going to affect my dreams. Of course, yeah. But that day, it's not even like I watched anything shocking. I was just driving through the Cascade Mountains. This was a period of my life in my 20s where I was performing at colleges. I was performing in...

gymnasiums and cafeterias it was like a really it was it was it was in the grind and i was just listening to a uh like an npr report on the radio about like missile defense and and of course that's what invaded my dream so can you take a nap and and and will this happen if you take a nap and now how do you sleep and do you deep do you sleep rest like you feel rested

I sleep a lot better. I'm one of those people where I have the thing and all my friends know I have the sleepwalking thing and when they have an issue sleeping, they call me like I'm a doctor and of course I'm not. And so I always recommend this book.

that was written years ago called The Promise of Sleep. And it's... A lot of it's like sleep hygiene stuff. Like, my sleep is better because, like, a few hours before bed, I shut off my phone, I stop watching the news, whatever it is, and I sort of, like, I think about landing...

One way to look at it is like landing into sleep as opposed to crashing into sleep. Yeah. But honestly, in a real practical way, is the medication that that doctor prescribed you sufficient? Adequate? Have there been no more episodes? Do you not worry about going to sleep? That you're going to start walking around and do stuff like this? Or murder someone. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's definitely a...

It's a concern and I monitor it very, very closely. And I don't even want... The truth is I don't want to take the drug. I have to. A few years... Recently, I actually looked up the side effects of the... It's Klonopin. It's Klonazepam. Oh, yeah, I've taken that. It's a drug I take, yeah. And it was like the side... You know, it was this...

recently it was like the side effects I looked in, it was just like, it was like, it was like depression, you know, poor motor skills and, you know, something else. And I was like, oh, that's, I thought that was my personality. Oh yeah. Sean, you, you, I think you're taking too much, Sean. Yeah, exactly. Well, but, but boy, but I get what, what, what would, what would, I mean, I would probably, I would have to, I'd be so worried about falling asleep that I never would be able to fall asleep. Um,

And I wouldn't want to take that medication. I probably would like strap myself down, but then you wouldn't be able to roll over. So I'd probably like devise some sort of box over my bed. I'd like build a box, like a cage to sleep in, something like that. Talk about that more. Talk about the cage. Yeah.

There's a period of time where my wife Jenny has, of course, had to deal with this for many, many years. Poor Jenny. I know. For so many reasons. Jenny walks in the room. She's like missing an eye. She's got like a... She's walking on crutches. She's wearing a full helmet. She and I listen to the podcast all the time. She's going to be devastated that this is her mention in the podcast. No, no, no. She's a poet. Jenny, you're a hero. She's a poet in her own right. How did you meet Jenny? I met Jenny in St. Louis.

He strangled her once at midnight in St. Louis by the bus station. Okay, okay. Jumped out of her window. Settle down, settle down. We met in St. Louis many years ago and...

Yeah, it was one of those things. For me, it was love at first sight. We were both on work trips, and I just fell in love with her immediately, and I'm in love with her to this very day. You know what's a great thing that I loved from your McEnroe episode recently is he said this thing about he and his wife, which is that...

they let each other be who they are. And I was like, oh, that's such a beautiful sentiment. I said to Jenny, I go, oh, I think of us that way. She's a poet and I'm a comedian and those are two people who don't know how heating and electricity work. Yeah, yeah. I love that. I like that he said that too and I was thinking about it too. You guys would agree, Jason, for sure, Amanda lets you be who she is. And I think that that's...

One of the great things that makes it work for you guys. Oh, yeah. Mike. Now, Mike, you've got a podcast of your own called Working It Out. Working It Out. So it's an exercise? It's just at the gym. Well, similar. Just interviewing trainers and... Yeah, on the treadmill. Similar to SmartList, Working It Out was a pandemic baby because...

I couldn't perform as a stand-up in front of audiences. - For sure. - And so I was like-- So I started asking my friends, you know, John Mulaney and Bill Hader and Conan O'Brien, different people, to work out jokes live on the show. And so now we're 115 episodes in, and it's like a big part of my life. - Like, I just love doing it. - That's great. - That's fun, right? - Yeah. It's the best. What's one of your earliest jokes that you wrote and that's tried and true, always works?

From my whole career or from this show? Either. Well, it's funny. Like, the first joke that made sense to me as, like... I feel like with comedians, it takes you years to find your voice and figure out, like, what's authentic to you. And there was a joke I did early on where I said...

My girlfriend and I are living together and she's starting to...

think about having kids, which is exciting because we're going to have to break up. I've decided I'm not going to have kids until I'm sure nothing else good can happen in my life. And it was one of those jokes where it was the first time where I was like, oh, it's not even a punchline. It's just a thought that sort of has an internal twist to it. And that's sort of how I try to think about jokes is like that if they...

they don't even have to strain credibility even. You know what I mean? The turn is authentic and the setup is authentic. Have you ever told a joke about something in your life and someone in your life who's mentioned it, obviously starting probably with your wife, but like other people or anything like that where somebody's gone like, hey man, were you talking about

and that they were like put off by it? I have it all the time, every time I'm on stage. Wow. Like, in other words, like I think about that constantly. The sort of what can I talk about? What can't I talk about? Like I have that with my daughter, for example. Because right now she's eight years old. And...

and which is an amazing age but i i'm on i'm incapable of living in the present and so my brain goes to when she's 15 and she's going to be like my dad is garbage you know what i mean and because i'm ready for that like i'm open to that it happens yeah oh yeah and uh

But my dad didn't have to deal with that. I grew up in the 80s. You know, we said it, but they didn't listen, you know? They were just like, is someone talking? But when my daughter's 15, she's going to be like, my dad is garbage, and I'm going to be like, you're so brave. That's so true. How can I amplify your voice? You know what I mean? Amplify your voice.

So I think about that all the time. Like, I think about, like, even I have a joke about my daughter that I've been saying recently where, like, I say, Jenny and I went to see my daughter, her ballet recital, and we're in the audience, we're just crying and crying because she doesn't have it, you know? And, uh...

I can tell right away. And it's one of those things where I'm doing the joke and I'm thinking to myself, eventually Una, my daughter, is going to see this joke and like, what's she going to think? I don't know. Right. I made the mistake of working my kids and my wife into some stuff I was talking about on talk shows every once in a while. And...

My wife eventually just pulled me aside and said, no more. No more. Come up with stuff that is funny but has nothing to do with me or the girls. But that's your wife and your daughter. They can't take that off the table for you, right? I was going to say, I go through the same thing too, and I've done it before on talk shows as well, and my kids are older. Like Jason's, my older kids are older.

And so you do that thing, and a couple times, like, we've talked on the podcast, and I'm driving with my—and my kids are like, well, listen to it, or they've driven, and they're going like, are you—like, I can—it's just a weird—because they are at that age now, and then they're kind of like, hey, man. They're like—not even my partner. It's my kids looking at me like, hey, dude, are you talking about me? Sorry. Yeah.

Yeah, and of course you embellish a little bit to kind of make it funny, but no one knows that. Always. But they know that. I said this before, Mike, on the show, but I tried to do stand-up years and years and years and years ago. Horrible at it. Didn't know how to write. And one of my jokes had to do with ballet. My opening joke was, you know, they say ballet is one of the most difficult things you can do, so I say just don't do it. Yeah.

I don't, I feel like, I feel like the non-laughter was intentional from Jason and Will. Yeah. Well, we've heard that one before. Yeah. I keep, I keep waiting. And there's, you know what I say to Sean, one day there'll be a punchline. Yeah. Well, first of all, Sean, first of all, a lot of people come on the show and say they saw Good Night Oscar and loved it. I've got the program in my office right here. You came to the show? Yeah. And it's unsigned. I stood by the stage door. Oh.

And for hours. Why did you come back? Sean doesn't like the people. I'm such a big fan of yours. Thank you so much. I was, I'm just intimidated. I always feel like I'm going to be in the way. No. Yeah, but I'm so honored that you came. We talked about that recently. We talked about that recently with somebody. Mike, you probably felt it would be presumptuous for me to just knock on the door and say, hey, I'm famous. You're famous. Let's talk.

Yeah. Right? But had I known, I would have invited you back. Had somebody sign it for you. Mike, are you the funniest guy in your family growing up? Or was mom and dad, or mom or dad, someone that gave you the funny gene? Close call. I mean, it depends on who you ask. My brother Joe, you know, a lot of times people will ask my mom, they'll go, was he always funny growing up? And she'll go, no.

no, no, he's very serious. And then she'll say to me, she'll go, you know, you comedians are so serious. And I'm like, how many comedians do you know? You know, like, are you texting Ronnie Chang? Are you on an email chain with Roy Wood Jr.? Like, what is happening here? But my brother Joe, I feel like, has the reputation as being the funniest one

in the family. And he and I work together and collaborate on writing and everything, which has been very cool. Oh, that's cool. It's a funny... It's a funny family. It's a... It is...

I don't know who's intending to be funny and who isn't. You know, growing up, my dad, my dad's very funny, but he'd get very angry growing up. He'd be like, God damn it, I'm eating pretzels. You know, and be like, is he angry? Is he hungry? What is the emotion being expressed? There's a lot of fireworks. There's a loud house. Yeah, yeah. Where was this house? What part of the world were we in? Massachusetts. Massachusetts. And how many siblings?

I'm youngest of four, so I was sort of like the, is there another child? Wait, hang on. What part of Massachusetts? Shrewsbury. Shrewsbury. Yeah. Shrewsbury. And what's Birbiglia? What nationality? Birbiglia is Italian. Great question. Great question, Sean. Well, just because you're youngest of like a big, loud family. Oh, why, you like to put people into boxes, Sean? Oh, so he's Italian. You got it all in one thing. What kind of box do you want to put him in? A pasta box? Yeah.

What are you going to do? What are you going to get? Some elbow macaroni? What are you going to do? You want him to forget about the question? F you, Sean. Mike, I'm sorry. Now, Mike, you know, being a guy who does what you do. Hey, Will, I'm not offended. Just so you know, I'm not offended. Oh, God damn it. Doing what you do, you literally, you work alone. Yeah. Except when you're collaborating with your brother. With your brother. But, so when you did the directing stuff. Oh.

or when you're acting on something, and it's much more of a teamwork, right? A team sport. Are you able to switch gears easily, or is it kind of like uncomfy? I do. I love that. I love the collaboration side of the field. Like, I started when I was in college. I was cast in the improv troupe, and that was sort of like at Georgetown. That sort of changed my life. And I know you... I loved your Mulaney episode, and he was talking about it. So Mulaney...

basically was cast by Nick Kroll in the same improv group that I cast Nick Kroll in like a year before. Oh, wow. No way. Yeah, so Nick and John and I have been friends for years and years. And then when John moved to New York, he came on tour with me, and so we've just known each other forever. But the improv...

Like, I feel like that sort of formed my entire approach to creativity and creation and all the rules of yes anding everything. And like, I made a movie about it called Don't Think Twice with Keegan-Michael Key and Gillian Jacobs where it's a bunch of best friends in an improv group and

And then one of them gets cast on sort of a Saturday Night Live type of show, and the rest of them don't. And it's sort of about what happens in life when people realize that not everything's fair. What kind of... Were you guys doing, like, Heralds and that kind of thing? Yeah. Yeah? Okay. We believe in... Yeah, we actually... When I was in college, we were doing Heralds. We... There was... ImprovOlympic actually came and did workshops with us. There was a group across town at GW called Recess, and they...

UCB4 with like Amy and Matt and Matt and Ian came and did workshops with them. Oh, they did? Who came down from ImprovOlympic? So it was this group called Frank Booth and they were fantastic. And it was this, you know, so Sharna Halpern came. Sharna, of course. And it was Liz Allen who ended up years later being, we hired her as the coach of our fictional improv group in this movie, Don't Think Twice.

And so, yeah, the collaboration, like, I love. Well, speaking of that, Mike, you know, like, you're so funny and such a brilliant writer and such a brilliant performer. Truly. Do you have any aspirations? What's that? There's a but. But. But you seem like a dick. Like a dick. Like a dick. You seem like a dick. Go right.

But like other Italians I've met, is that what you're doing, Sean? For fuck's sake. Wait, Sean, as a fan of the show, can I ask Sean something? Which is, are these guys ever too much on you?

Are you joking me? We get pages of text afterwards. Like, do you want to know what, you guys? When you, I feel. It's all that. It is true. A lot of the time. Yeah, it's pretty bad. And we will be right back. All right, back to the show.

I'm sorry, Sean. What was your question? I apologize. Probably, wait, can I do it? Have you ever forgotten a joke when you were on stage? Did you ever go up? Did you have somebody have to throw you a line? You have a podcast. Have you ever forgotten your question during your podcast? What's your funniest podcast moment? Sean, these are great questions. These are really spot on. I'm crossing them off as they say them. No, uh...

No, have you? Like, if this was the 80s or 90s and you were as brilliant as you are now, they'd hand you a sitcom, right? And now people aren't really doing those, that kind of thing anymore. Yeah. So are you doing the dream that you've always, which is stand-up and writing and touring and all of that, or is there more that you want to do that you haven't done? First of all, I auditioned once for the role of Buster. Oh!

They gave it to somebody else. Tony Hale's Buster? Yep. Yeah. So Jason and Will, just sorry to put you on the spot, but do you feel like they went in the right direction with that one? Absolutely not. The show would still be on the air if you played Buster. Well, I'd love to see. I mean, I don't know because I don't know what you did. And if you're prepared, if you remember at all what you did...

I'd love to see it, Mike. Let's improvise a scene right now. Will, you play Joe. I'll play, was it Michael? Yes, Michael. There he is. There's Busty. What are you doing? And Michael. And there's, hey, Buster, Bud, could you please take your shoes off before you bring that mud inside the house for us? Oh, I don't know. I don't know if I can. I think I'm already inside the house. Of course you're inside. Look around you. What is this, your first time in a building? Sorry.

Mike. Oh, I'm, oh, I seem to have taken off my shirt. Oh yeah. No shoes, please. Just undo the Velcro and take them off. There go my pants. And Job, what are you so upset about? Did your Segway run out of gas?

See? Okay, sorry. And the show got canceled. But, John, to answer your question, yeah, like I auditioned for, I auditioned to play Jim on The Office. I auditioned to play Jonah on Veep. You know, I don't know what happened to any of those shows, but I'm fine with it. You're doing just fine. You're doing just fine. Yeah, you're doing great. You know what happened to all those shows, Mike? They all went off the air. Yeah.

You know who's not off the air? You. You. You. You're firmly on the air. Well, truthfully, like, when I was in, like, 2008, I got, like, a CBS sitcom, and I think that if I had had my druthers, it would be, like, something like Arrested Development, where it's, like, off the wall and improvisational and nuts. And I...

At CBS in 2008, that was not on the menu. No. Right, right. And so it became a very watered-down Mike Birbiglia. And by the end of it, I was just like, we shot the pilot. And the cast was incredible. Nick Kroll played my cousin, and Bob Odenkirk played my brother. Wow, amazing. And it was as good as we could do within the constraints of network TV at that time. But then it didn't get picked up for air. Yeah.

And honestly, it was the best thing that could have ever happened to me. I was crushed at the time, but then I went back to New York and I mounted my first solo show. Then I went on to make, you know, all these solo shows. Right, and you were doing something that was an absolute bullseye for you and your sensibility as opposed to the other show. It wasn't, right? Yeah, it was sort of watered down. Everything happened for a reason that way. I had a similar experience doing a multicam that was going to...

would have killed me and had a similar experience and it... Which one? Was it the one before... Right before Arrested Development. Yeah. And had that happened... The Michael Malley show? No, no, no, no. It was this other one called Still Standing that I did. Anyway, and I got fired after the pilot. And I was so upset. And you would have been unavailable for... I would have been unavailable for Arrested Development. And at the time...

Brian Callen said to me at the time when I got fired, because I knew Brian from way back in the day, and he goes, oh, wait, you're mad that you're not the fucking fifth lead who every other episode walks in and goes, hey, what the hell happened to my couch? Okay. He goes, you're fine. Just be happy and don't fucking worry about it. Literally, he was like, God's doing you a favor in fucking six months. Anyway. Now, Mike, when you went in and helped out –

Our friend Jimmy Kimmel, and you hosted his show for a week when he was suffering from COVID. He got an attack of the summers. Yeah, yeah. Vicious. You're a great mic in that. Now, did you, was it, how was that taste? Is that something that you would want to do maybe? I loved it. I mean, Jimmy is the greatest, obviously, and I was flying from...

No, no, Fallon. He's talking about Fallon now. Stay on my question. We're talking about Jimmy Kimmel. Okay, if you say so, Mike. I don't know. I debate him. Get Kimmel in here. So I was in Chicago. As a matter of fact, exactly the same time Sean was in Chicago with Goodnight Oscar, I was at Steppenwolf, and they called. I was going to fly out to be a guest, and I was on Southwest Airlines, and I get a text from Jimmy Kimmel, and he goes...

I'll switch you to private if you host for me. Yeah, exactly. He goes, I might have COVID. And then five minutes later, he goes, you're going to be the host instead of the guest. And then five minutes after that, he texted me, you're interviewing Tom Cruise. And five minutes after that, he texted, Tom Cruise has canceled.

Oh, my God. Which means apparently he's not willing to do all his own stunts. He's not willing to go the distance from Kimmel to Birbiglia. Sure. Right. No. Well, they should have allowed Matt Damon to finally get on the show. Yeah, right? No, they still bumped him, huh? But I loved it. I mean, yeah. I mean, he's...

I mean, Kimmel's amazing. But doing a talk show, hosting a talk show and being able to improvise basically with guests, even though, you know, a lot of that stuff is sort of predetermined what questions are going to be asked and roughly what answers are going to be given. You still, I would imagine, would just...

sore in that environment. I appreciate it. I mean, I love being able to do Working It Out as a podcast and then also do my stand-up and solo shows and touring. Like, I like the... I don't know. You're good. Thanks. Like, I feel like I'm lucky, especially like... Mike, just say you want to do the late night show for Christ's sake. Yeah. Okay? Why are you fighting this shit? Why are you coming? You're combative. Because it's...

Because it's CBS. It's never going to work to CBS again. Take the late night gig. I don't get it. What's your game, Biglia? Do the late night gig. First of all, Will, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that Will and I were in Popstar together. And this is something, Will, you'll never hear because you're you. But I lived at the time The Lonely Island was making that movie. I lived next to Yorma Takone from The Lonely Island.

And he was writing that movie with those guys, with Andy and Akiva. And he said to me, he goes, we're going to get, you know, he gets riled up, Jorma. He's like, we're going to get the funniest guys to play this group that's like a TMZ kind of group. And it's going to be like this person, this person. And one day he came to me, he's like,

We got Will Arnett to play the then, you know, character. And he was so happy. And then on set... It all went south. I don't know if this is... I don't know. But then... But then, no. On set, and I feel like you got to take this compliment...

You broke a lot of takes because people were laughing so hard on the set. I'm done. I need to see that movie, and then I want to watch Hot Rod, too. We should do a double bill. I thought you were going to say that you are whom I adore.

Yorma is one of the all-time greats, and you know, you're his neighbor and friend, and such a funny dude. I love all the Lonely Island guys, but... Um, two things. Yorma... Sorry, let me finish on talking about Yorma. Yeah, no, no, it's been a while. Okay, sweet Yorma. Sweet, sweet Yorma. Hey, Sean, cool it, huh? I thought you... Mike, I thought you were gonna say, Yorma said we're gonna get the funniest guys to play these guys at the TMZ, and then the next day he goes, okay, the funniest guys weren't available. We do have...

Mike, first of all, I'm just remembering we DM'd each other after my show. Fucking cool it, dude. Pick clean. Oh, I wasn't going to bring it up. I wasn't going to bring it up. Thank you. And thank you for saying such nice things about it. But I did want to, because it's me, I want to say worst heckler, worst experience ever. Worst heckler. Oh, God. I feel like, honestly, you know, speaking of Steve Martin, like, I feel like his Born Standing Up and, like, interviews he's given over the years are the best interviews

about dealing with audience gone wrong stuff. And he always says, like, just react honestly in the moment. You know, like if someone, you know, shouts condom or some bullshit, you know, just like, why, sir, you know, I'm doing a show and thanks for being here, but that's actually not helpful. I have something prepared. And like, and like, that's sort of... That's...

And what I find is that when you do that, is that it really ends the thing. Because people just go like, oh yeah, that guy's the asshole and this guy knows what he's doing. Let's move on. Rather than challenge or be challenging or aggressive back to what you mean. Yeah, and early in my career, I was not good at this. I mean, I remember like, you know, 20 years ago, I remember performing in a casino and...

There were these two guys in the front row who looked like maybe some kind of organized criminals. They weren't smiling or laughing. They were very, very angry. And they were with these two women

And they were just talking and talking and talking as though I wasn't there, as though there wasn't a show of any kind. Right, right. And so I kept being like, hey, maybe don't talk. Maybe go talk somewhere else. Yeah, yeah, right. And they just kept talking and talking. Finally, I didn't know what else to do, and I was inexperienced. And I said, hey, gentlemen, I feel like... Condom! Yeah. I said, gentlemen, I feel like maybe you should take your...

You're a prostitute. And I'm not standing behind this story. This is not, first of all, it's nothing I would say today. I don't recommend this. And the guy looked at, and maybe you guys should leave. And the guy looked at me in the eye

And he goes, "I'm gonna fucking kill you." And no one laughed. I didn't laugh. He didn't laugh. The audience didn't laugh. We were all uncertain of what was about to happen. And then they escort this guy out. I'm with my brother Joe after the show, and we're gambling at Blackjack Table. And Joe yells at me. He goes, "Mike,

You can't do that. It's dangerous, you know? And you can't say that to people. You can't say people's wives are prostitutes. And I go, Joe, it wasn't my best moment. I get it. And at that moment, these two women come over and...

And they go, are you guys looking for dates? And they're the two women from the front row of the show. Oh, my God. No way. Couple of professionals. Yeah. Wow. So you'd called this guy out. And maybe I was indeed about to be murdered. Mike, have you always had an eye for hookers? Yeah.

Sorry. Be able to just pick them out of a crowd, literally. Just because it seems like people have a savant for different things. Mike, didn't you have a show called Spot the Pro for a while? Stop. Stop.

I'm the pro. It's awful that he said that, but it's kind of fun to say. It's fucking great. I'm going to fucking kill you. I'm going to fucking kill you. When somebody says, I'm going to fucking kill you. I'm going to fucking kill you. It's unbelievable. It's horrible, but it's fun to say. Has anybody ever said that to you in that way or something close to that? I think I've seen that said with someone's eyes.

But never verbalized. I had a guy once. This is a true story. I was a teenager, and I remember I was in a McDonald's in Toronto, and there was a guy, there was a big line, two lines for the fuck, it was pre, you know, whatever, 100,000 years ago. But there was a guy in line, in the other line, but ahead of me. And he was, there was something about him. He had the worst energy human I'd ever seen up to that point in my life, and he looked like he was just like...

Gonna fucking-- There was something up with the dude. And I was talking to my friends, and I remember this like it was yesterday. I was looking at him because I was like, "Look at this fuck--" In my mind, I'm thinking, "This guy's a fucking murderer. Like, this guy's fucking-- Just the craziest looking dude." And I swear to God, I don't know how, he was looking-- He was facing forward. I was behind him. He turns around and he goes, "Don't fucking look at me."

and then turned back around. And I almost, for real, for the first time in my life, I almost shat in my pants. He said, one Happy Meal, please. Yeah. Yeah. It was, I remember to this day, don't fucking look at me. Can you imagine what kind of nightmares Mike would have had if that happened to him? Oh, my God. Oh, man. Michael is taking himself out of top floor, not a second floor. Oh, Jesus.

Mike, we've kept you six minutes over. We apologize. God, Mike, you're fun. You're so fun. You make the time go so fast, Mike. Huge.

Huge fan. You guys are, this is a dream come true. I listen to the show with my wife, Jenny, and it's like listening to your three funniest friends, and you don't have to talk. And today, I got to talk, which is cool. But barely. While you were listening with her, little did you know, we had plans to bring you on here. Oh.

Yeah, little did you know that we had talked about, and hopefully you're listening to it now with Jenny. And just, again, we want to say hi to Jenny. She's a fan. Yep. We love your poetry. And we love your poetry, and we're a fan of yours. And Mike, I mean it when I said, you truly, truly have been on my list, too, for like a couple years now. Surprise. And Will, where were you on that? Yeah, Will?

I'm going through a canyon right now, man. Can you not hear us? Jesus. You're kind of breaking up. Okay. You're kind of breaking up. We'll call you back. We'll call you back. Mike, thank you. I knew you were on somebody else's list. You don't know who's on whose list. Yeah.

Wait, wait, let me say one more thing too because I listened to the show. In my special, The Old Man in the Pool on Netflix, I talk about how my family wasn't an I love you family growing up. Like we didn't say I love you. We said take care, which is sort of like a passive aggressive command. Right.

I'm going to need you to do something for me. Take care, you know. But you guys always say I love you to each other, and I find it so sweet and meaningful. Well, it's true. I just want to say that. That's sweet. Well, you know what? We love you now, Mike. You're part of the family. I love you too. We sure do. Anything you want to say to Tracy? I mean, if you know the show, is there anything? Yeah. Aw.

Tracy, I could recommend some of my Netflix specials and my movies. And thank you for supporting Sean all these years through all that he's been through. Yeah, she's the best. I love her. Mike, do you have a recommendation for us for a good word to work into our bye?

Because I pretty... Oh, we've never done this. Yeah, we're pretty tapped out. And since you're a listener of the show, you ever thought, God, why don't they ever use this word? That would be easy. Like, you know... It's not easy. You all have children, right? Sure. Sure, sure. So...

So I would just say, just think of your favorite song or lullaby. Oh, got it. We'll keep that in mind. We're not going to do it yet. Michael, goodbye. We love you. Love you. Bye, Mike. Love you, Mike. You're the best. Love you, Mike. Love you. Goodbye. Goodbye. We are clear. Mike, bye, Glea. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Very good. It's for Biglia. I'm just saying for the bi. No, as a bi, you stupid ass. I'm so stupid. Okay, okay. You're dumber than me. Good, you know what? Stupid ass. Then I get to say it then. Oh, okay. Okay. If I'm so stupid. Let's see if you can work it in smoothly. If I'm so stupid to you.

I love that guy, Jay. I love him. He's so funny. He's so fucking funny. Yeah, I mean, I watch his stuff all the time, and I'm like, oh, it's like new but old school, like his comedy, like you were saying, like storytelling stuff. Sean, I'm going to call you out on this, and I don't want to do it on the show because Mike's listening, but that's not true. The other day I said, hey, do you know Mike Pavilion? He said, who's that?

And I showed you a special and you go, what am I watching? And I said, you're watching Mike Birbillio's special. And you said, I don't see anything. LAUGHTER

He's invisible to me. He's worthless and talent-free. Turn it off. No. No, he is so fucking... I've been such a fan for so long. I agree. He's so fucking funny. But a lot of comics don't do that anymore. I mean, some of them do, but he... I love that he does the one-man shows on Broadway. I think it's really fucking cool. Really cool, yeah. And it takes... That'd be fucking hard as shit. Think about it, Sean. You just got off Broadway. Imagine doing a...

one-man show every night. I mean, forget... Can't do it. Did it. Don't want to do it again. Yeah, it's...

Jay, you were just saying. You're going to do it. You can't even make a speech at a fucking good friend's birthday party. Well, but a one-man show. Nah, you can't make a speech at a good... Nah, you can't. I'm not good on my feet with a microphone in my hand and a spotlight in my face. That's it. Jason and I, Will, the other night at this party, ran into Gustavo Dudamel. Did you really? Yeah. Who orchestrated that? And...

Oh, wonderful. Aren't you good? Wow. Somebody took a nap and somebody's home from Atlanta. Uh-huh. Am I happy to be here? You know what? But he's going to be tired soon and then hopefully someone is just going to put him right to bed and sing him a nice long lullaby. And you know who I hope the person who sings it to me is? Who? Mike Berglia.

You got a double bye. You got a bye-bye today. I got it from somebody else. I got that from somebody else. Double bye-bye. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Rob Armjarv, Bennett Barbico, and Michael Granteri. Smart. Less.

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