"Jon Stewart"
51:05 Share

Hi, everybody. Hi, guys. Hey, guys. I'm really proud of our show. Me too. Yeah. And we're going in a different direction now because we spent a better part of a year screwing around. Yeah, just making laughs, just building smiles and stuff. But I think our listeners deserve something a little bit better. No, they deserve us to be real. Yeah. So the whole episode's going to kind of be like this. I mean, it can't just be jokes all the time. No, we can't tell jokes all the time. I want people to just pull their car over to the side right now and just get real. Okay.

Just put it in park. And I want you to grab the person next to you, wherever they are, grab them by the shoulders and square them up and look them in the eye and just say, I respect you. I think the world of you, but it's time for me to listen to Smartless. Here comes Smartless. You know?

Smart Less

Look, I've been notified. First of all, I just want to say before we start with our guest that I was listening back to the interview with Sean Penn and I heard a lot of listener feedback that I asked potentially the longest question in the history of SmartList. Really? A lot of people really gave it to me. Guarantee that. Yep. I heard it too. In fact, I haven't finished that interview listening to it because... Because of the question. You haven't finished the question. I was so worn out with your...

But also people who are saying like, you know, you give Bateman a lot of shit for the long question, then you have one. And my answer to that is fuck off. Yeah, I love that answer. You know, because then there's no... Remember what I said earlier about you being sunny all the time? I know.

I've been really prickly lately. That's so nice. Everybody looks really awake today. Yeah. Well, it's 20 minutes later than it used to be. Wow. Well, you're about to get into it with our guest then because our guest is somebody who you do not want to tangle with. Oh, wait. Let me finish. Let me just say that our guest, and I know that you revere our guests and have a lot of respect for them, so this is going to be really interesting to see you dig your way out. I know that because we've talked about him many times over the years.

He's somebody who's a sort of like a, I don't know how you'd say it, like a cultural icon. Mike Tyson. Hold on. Somebody who I've always looked up to comedically, but also somebody who I've always looked up to for, I think that he lands on the right side of a lot of things, which is he just applies a lot of what we like to call logic to issues.

Ricky Gervais is back on the program. He ended up informing people in a way through his comedy show, he really informed, gave people a lot of real world information and education that they probably didn't know that they were, they thought they were just signing up for a comedy program and they actually got to learn. He's a,

Clearly a very thoughtful guy. I don't want to belabor it too long just to say that he's somebody that I'm really, really honored that he's here. And I just think he's, and I don't really know him. We've met a handful of times. I think it's going to be serious. Without further ado, Mr. Jon Stewart. Good Lord. Look at the reveal. It was incredible. And he's got a mask in his hand. Wait a minute. Did you have a mask over the camera?

I respected him until that, and then that just destroyed. I put it on my computer to make sure that the computer doesn't get the virus. There we go. John, this is... Are you upset? Jason, I was late. Can I tell you why I was late? Because I could tell it upset you a little bit, Jason. You were trying to get rid of the sound quality in your room? I was working at an orphanage. No. Oh, Jesus. Let me see a kid. Show me one kid right now. Hold on.

Can I ask you a question? And I don't podcast much, so I don't know. Sure. There's plenty of room in the space. Has Will been kidnapped? Yeah, Will's in a dark room. I'm in a cloth booth inside the middle of a larger room that also has no furniture in it. So it's very... Hey, listener, Jon Stewart doesn't hand out a bunch of interviews. No. He doesn't do this a lot. So I'm very honored and...

this is very nice of you to do this. Very thrilling. Yeah. Very thrilling. I'm delighted. You know, they told me, you know, you've got to do some promotion for this. What are you promoting? A show on Apple. And they gave me a list of podcasts and yours was the only one on it.

Wow. A list of one? A list of one. No, I was excited to come and talk to you guys because you're three very funny, nice, lovely gentlemen. You're a nice man. Back at you. Well, thank you. We were going to get to the Apple show, but let's talk about it right off the bat. A little bit about what's going on with that. Oh, that I don't know. I mean, I'm here to talk about it.

Yeah, what is the show? Just tell me what it's called and when it's on because I'm going to be first in line. It's been too long. It's on Apple, but to be honest with you, I don't know how to access it. Sure. John, by the way, if it's on Apple, Jason means that he'll be first in line because he will have been halfway back the line and then he'll cut the line. I don't know if you've seen. No, I didn't realize that. You can look that up. Yeah, when the iPhones first came out, Jason cut the line famously. Does he bigfoot the people? Dude, seriously.

Dude, can I just tell you, I don't know if I've told this story before on our podcast, but when the first iPod came out, iPhone, Jason said, oh, you're going to get like a special hookup and get the phone early? I said, yeah, somebody's going to send it to me. And yes, of course. He goes, well, I'm going to go wait in line like everybody else. I said, great. So Bateman goes to the... I'm with the people, you know? So he goes down to the Grove and he's trying to big time telling me that he's with the people. He goes to the Grove. I'm standing in line like Star Wars movie. Like a Star Wars movie. He's...

To his credit, he's there like 150th in line. Somebody, an employee at the Apple store in the Grove sees him, goes up and says, Mr. Bateman, just please come this way. And he goes with him. Of course, the paparazzi get photos of him jumping the line and he ends up getting more shit

for that. For jumping the line. For jumping the line. For being a man of the people and jumping the line. It couldn't have been more beautiful. And when I called the paparazzi and told them to go get it. And apparently a year later, when I think it was Tim Cook, was at a meeting of the folks who were in charge of all this stuff, he literally said to them, let's make sure our VIPs get their phones ahead of time. Let's not pull another Bateman this year. Ha ha ha ha ha.

It's actually named after you. - That was very embarrassing. - Pulling abatement. - John, tell me about this Apple show. Is it a standup? Is it a scripted show? Is it something you're directing, you're in? - It's not a standup show and it's not a scripted show. It's more of a kind of combining some of the things I learned on The Daily Show with some of the things I learned from being down in Washington. Sort of the ethos of it is kind of that, why are really obvious problems that have solutions?

Why don't they get addressed and fixed? And it's kind of the either-or. We're not doing that many of them. John, the description of that show, you are filling a surprisingly huge hole in media right now. That's an obvious thing that I'm just shocked that no one's addressed yet or maybe no one's as smart or as savvy as you. Well, watch the show. You'll see we don't actually –

get anything done. But my God, there seems to be so many obvious problems with obvious solutions that we just, we tie ourselves into knots trying to figure out why they're not being solved when it, you just, it's a big fat green button somebody needs to push and everything will be right in the world. Jason, I really wish you hadn't have given away the ending to my show. It's, uh,

You know, I mean, we step right into this thing and five minutes into it, you're like, it's a fucking green button. And I'm like, oh, that's great. Thanks. Thanks. You know what? I'm going to blow season four of Ozark. How about I jump in? Turns out you guys all move out of Missouri and you fucking get your own boat. John, would it be safe to say that your show is kind of the crying game of the new Apple streaming service with the surprise? I don't think there's any question about it. Yeah.

And now that it's been blown, it turns out we were all dead the whole time. There. Are you happy now, Jason? We were all sleeping next to Suzanne Plachette. It was just one big dream. Oh, was that not the greatest? It was pretty good. So at the risk of doing another spoiler, and to be slightly serious, does it all kind of boil down to ignoring the squeaky minority and listen to the quiet majority? Absolutely.

I think what we find is, and it's almost like the laws of thermodynamics, you know, a body at rest has a tendency to stay at rest and a body in motion has a tendency to stay in motion. And I think the status quo generally stagnant and does not like to take risks or to put itself on the line when it may be held responsible for the consequences. And so what happens is there's a certain stagnation and there's a certain remove that

The people generally in charge of things are at great remove from the people affected by things. And that when you permeate that kind of, that bubble that they are in, it's very difficult to get them. It stemmed from, you know, I remember going down on, this is, I mean, can I, is this, can I tell a heavier story? Of course. Yeah, please do. I mean, anything that starts with going down on. Yeah, you left off at going down on. So I'm blowing a veteran.

It was a revelation from the 9-11 hearings. And we were down there and, you know, these guys that had been on the pile for 9-11 and had suffered for really going on decades, the health effects of toxic exposures. And anybody who'd been down there knew, you know, they were told the air was safe, but

I don't think things that smell like that are safe. Yeah, there's just some kind of statistic that just came out this week about how many of them have passed away or are deathly ill. It's just awful. Tragic. Yeah. So we went down to testify in front of Congress, and we were there. There's a guy named John Field who runs the Feel Good Foundation. And...

You know, we've lost some people that we'd worked with. Ray Pfeiffer, who was a firefighter that had come down and lobbied with us. And this guy, Lou Alvarez, who was a cop. He had been in the armed forces and then he was on the bomb squad. He's just this unbelievable guy. He'd been through like 160 chemotherapies. And you could, you see it all. And we knew that we were losing Lou over the past six months to a year that we'd been advocating and bringing him down to DC. So we're down and...

lose to my right. And we're sitting and we're in this room of, of Congress people, half of whom don't even show up to the hearing. It's like a hearing of like, I think the committee's like 18 Congress people. It was like seven that are there. Two of them, uh, Louie Gomer and Jim Jordan, who are, I think they're in the dumbass coalition. I think that's the official title of what they're in. They come in, they sit for a minute, get counted as present and then take their name tags and leave.

So they count as present. So Lou gives his testimony and it's about, you know, I'm here because I don't ever want other people to go through what I've been through and I'm here to make sure that that doesn't happen. And it just, Lou felt there's something off. It just wasn't, you know, this guy's pretty stoic to begin with, but I could tell like that night,

His liver fails, he goes into hospice. That night, literally on the way back from Washington, right? So I'm furious. I rip into the congresspeople for their inattention, for their, you know, these guys answered the call five seconds after 9-11. It's been fucking 18 years. What are you doing?

One of the Congress people, and I was complaining about how there was nobody there in the room. That's like seven Congress people. It's just, it's a metaphor for the way that we ignore. They all hold them up as heroes. Never forget the heroes of 9-11. Here these guys are, and nobody's in the fucking room. So the head of the committee, I think his name is Elliot Cohen. He's a congressman, Democrat. He says to me, look, I understand you're upset, but please know, like, we're very busy.

And I was like, that right there crystallized for me what the issue was. I'm sitting next to someone who has decided to spend his last moments on this earth advocating for those who are suffering from similar fates to his and trying to alleviate some of the consequences that they may face in the future if this doesn't get done. And this motherfucker is just like, I got 10 meetings today. I mean, how?

I mean, you can't expect me to go to all of them. And so I was, I was, to me, that's the disconnect. It's rhetoric versus reality. It's, uh, those who are affected by things versus those that control them. And those dynamics, the daily show was like, uh, uh,

It was like being a weatherman for like the daily bullshit, right? I'm hoping that this shows kind of more of a climatologist view, kind of a how are these systems incentivized? -Right. -And how do we rearrange that? Not just an observation, but how the fuck did we get here? And I was going to kind of say, I was going to bring that back to, it seems very, to me anyway, to a layman such as myself,

and I actually don't get laid that often, was that you started The Daily Show as a comedy show. It was kind of a Trojan horse, if you will, in that you, it was a hilarious, hilarious show. The only time I got to do it, you weren't even hosting. Somebody else was, I had like Corddry or somebody. No, that was in the contract. That was on purpose. That was something that... It felt very personal. It was before you'd ever been in show business and I had to put in there. If someone named Will Arnett...

ever gets in this business, please. That's fucking foresight. And I... But I remember, it seems to me, you started doing that show and it became so much more relevant, not just comedically, but it also became very much part of the conversation because you can see the kind of...

You know, you can see the genesis of these things, you know, as you railed against things comedically and the issues got more and more serious and you kind of dug deeper into it, kind of,

There did feel like there was a point where you were like, "Come on, everybody. What the fuck is going on?" And my question is, did you then sort of graduate since you've left The Daily Show? Was there like a frustration threshold that you fucking burst through? You're like, "I can't even joke about it anymore because this shit is so stupid." -I gotta do something about it. -And you people are acting like such fucking idiots. Was there a moment where you were just like, "God, I can't even-- It's not even funny almost anymore."

How long was the question that you asked that people gave you shit for? I know. How long was it? The Sean Payne question was a fucking embarrassment. It was an embarrassment. But I will say that my question just now was what we call half abatement. Half abatement. Half abatement. That was half abatement. We get half abatement. I mean, I think it's, look, satire has always been a way of processing things that mean a lot to you.

So comedy has always been used to process things that, and it's, it's always a continuum, you know, it's the show is a recipe. Sometimes it was incredibly silly, you know? Yeah. We did an episode on 9-11 first responders, but I also got a church choir to sing, go fuck yourself to a reporter on Fox news. Like it's always that kind of, you know, it's, it's scatological and it's,

But at the heart of it, satire really isn't. It's comedy about things you care deeply about. And that's always been the recipe. I think I probably just have gotten less elegant. And we will be right back. And now back to the show.

- You know, John, your daily help for those of us who are not as informed was so appreciated. - Yes, agreed. - And I'm sure incredibly effective. - Agreed. - It seems like we need not less of you, but more of you. - It's to make it as rarefied as you can get it. I want to be the saffron of comedy. - John. - Rich, little bit of flavor, put it into the sauce.

It creates maybe a tinge of color, but you never want too much. We're at a multi-bell alert here. Is there any chance of, I mean, I know you've directed the movie or two. You've had a kid or four. You've relaxed, I'm sure. Can you get back on the stick and help us out? Oh, I've been on it, baby. And by the way, there's so much on there. You know, we're also used to

the idea of that form now. So it's, you know, it was time for me, you know, as far as leaving the daily show, like I just, I didn't leave because I didn't care anymore. I left because I couldn't think of another interesting way to evolve the show. And you, I would imagine you guys feel this too, is I don't feel public pressure. I feel the pressure from the people that I work with.

Like when you're leading one of those shows, you owe it to them to try and kind of inspire them to come in with a certain amount of enthusiasm and a certain amount of directionality and a certain amount of, you know, leadership. Sure. So you don't feel like a weird responsibility because you're so good at what you do. And like we keep saying,

you know, there hasn't been anybody like you, nor has there been. No, I think there's like 10 of them. No, no, but what I'm saying is- I think we're in pretty good shape. But your ability to deliver the news and let the medicine go down easy is just incredibly valuable. But I wonder sometimes if that's even a good thing. You know, I got to a certain point where

You know, if the medicine goes down so easy, maybe you don't even realize you need medicine. But if the only other option is that people simply won't even seek out the medicine, I'd rather it go down easy than them just keep their head in the sand and, you know, watch Judge Judy. We've also, by the way, she has been on fire. Come on. On fire. Incredible talent. Can I tell you the other day, Judy, I watch her enough to just call her Judy. Sure. There was a woman, she was rebutting,

the gentleman, it was a rental issue. And Judy, just with a simple, didn't even finish the word don't. Just duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. Just different forms of the letter D. As long as you get the eyebrows up as high as possible, all you need is the D. At a certain point, didn't even hit the consonant. No, that's power. Shut it down.

Verdict for the plaintiff. That's ultimate power. That is studied and learned in like, yeah, no, I love Judge Judy, to be clear. And I see her eating Chinese food all the time. I used to anyway, down around the corner. So here's the thing. You know, a lot of the times when you're on TV all the time and people just assume that you live inside that box, right, in the world. And then when years have gone and you haven't been inside the box, people are like, what happened? What happened?

Where did you go? What are you doing? And it's like, what do you mean, what am I doing? I have a life outside of that box. But I fall into that same dumb category. When you just came on the screen here right now, I was like, oh my God, Jon Stewart, I love Jon Stewart. But I fucking fell in that same thing. I'm like, where's Jon Stewart been? Now, I know you've been directing things and I know you've been around, but for those people like myself, it was like Jason was saying, it's so important, you're so missed in...

in that arena. Well, there's also a nostalgia around that to some extent. And listen, don't get me wrong, fellas. I appreciate this and it's very kind of you. But there is a...

a nostalgia that grows around something that you remember more fondly than perhaps at the time. And at the time, we were inconsistent at times. We were controversial at times. I took my fair share of shit, not from you guys mostly, Jason, yes. And by the way, you're one of the best interviewers, maybe the best interviewer,

Full stop. You know, we can get into that later, but that was also awesome. Just as a guest and as a viewer. But there is a certain golden glow that nobody remembers you more fondly. But remember, there's also the reverse of that, which is nothing turns to disappointment and anger faster than love. And when people fall in love with a program or they fall in love with what you do. Yes, that's so true. There's, I mean, for God's sakes.

They're going after Ted Lasso. Are they really? Oh, yeah. What's going on there? So I guess my point is I try really hard to insulate and isolate myself from external commentary. I really rely on a moral barometer that is developed with the people that work with you on the show to discern whether or not we're doing good work, whether we're doing bad work.

where we can improve it, always examine it. But I really try and block out the... Yeah, my question was just what the hell have you been doing? Oh, what have I been doing? Yeah.

That was my only question. Sean's just like, where have you been? He's been advocating for fucking people who don't have a voice, you asshole. And I'm so sorry that he's not on your fucking TikTok. I know that. That was a leading question so you could inform our listeners of what you've been up to. Well, he's in the fucking trenches. And you're wondering why he's not dancing with his kids on fucking TikTok and dabbing. I mean, what is your fucking problem? Fucking Sean Hayes, you stupid ass.

I have been dabbing. Okay. A few years too late. I love bringing up dabbing because my 13-year-old literally, if I mention the word dabbing, he looks at me like, don't fucking say another word. Why are you talking? Let's ask Sean's three-minute question in 30 seconds.

What have you been doing? And if it's been raising children and prepping another movie, let's hear about that, please. Good question, Jason. I have been raising children. Oh, it's okay when Jason asks. Yeah, because I did it in about 10 seconds. You know, hey, Will, can we start, you know, like, I know you love hockey. You know, guys have like a two-minute penalty box thing. Maybe start implementing that for 20 seconds, let's say. I like

- Okay. - Fair enough. - So just know that's dangling there, hey. - Will Arnett, do you still play hot? Are you still, is it something that you will still go out and play? - No, the last time I went out and actually played, I was so, I left the rink, I remember, with my bag and kind of smiling at some, just pick up and I left like, "Yeah, oh, so great." And I went home and I iced my legs for 24 hours.

I know I didn't want anybody to know. And I was like, fuck, I'm done. I just love that nice high shelf ass though on you. Don't you? Well, no. Yeah. Does he have sort of a shelf? Yeah. Real skater ass. That's nice. I've got what we referred to in the, in the NHL. I got a pro dumper, John. And, um, John, do you play hockey? I know you're a soccer guy. I'm a big soccer guy too. I did not play. Uh, I did not play hockey. And unfortunately, uh,

my shelf collapsed about three years ago. Oh, no. My shelf ass. Yeah. Same thing happened to Jason. We were actually, we just opened an investigation into the guy who stole his ass because we're trying to find it. Jason, I don't know if this happened to you, but my ass was there one day and then gone the next. Almost like if you've ever seen an ice flow calve. Like, uh, it, it,

It was there and it was hanging on a threat. And then suddenly the ash began to slowly and it hit the water and kind of a spectacular splash. Your realization was probably less horrific than mine because I didn't find out mine had dropped until I saw it on national television. Yeah.

you know, going away there on Laura Linney. Poor thing. Oh no, that's not true. That's not true. Look, there's a little bit of a hang there. There's a crease that I didn't use to have at the bottom of my right buttock. That scene, quite honestly, I remember turning to my wife and saying, that's gotta be stunt cheeks because that can't be Bateman.

I know Bateman isn't that robust. Stunt cheeks. That's his, that's his stage name. Yeah. That's the name I danced under. As we get into, uh, sports and stuff, and I mentioned soccer, so I know that you did play soccer. You played soccer in college. What would I like to refer to as football? The beautiful game. You're talking about the beautiful game. I'm a fucking nut for it. The last 10 years, I've just gone crazy. Do you watch a lot? Uh,

I watch quite mostly Premier League. I don't watch much. You know, I'm not so nuts that it's like Serie A, you know, La Liga. Yeah. But I'll watch Premier League. I'll follow Liverpool. Same. I'm a big Liverpool supporter. Take it easy. Yes. Calm down. Yeah, no, it's so good. Okay, what about kids? I see a sippy cup in the background. Yes. Is that yours or a child's? That's actually, I think it's a candle that my wife put in here.

She likes to make things look nice in my office because she knows that I don't look nice in my office. It's a nice contrast. But my children, my son just got his driver's license. Wow. He's seven. What? So good. Wow.

No, he just turned 17. My daughter is going to be 16. So we're sort of kind of enjoying our last couple of years. Wait, are you doing like, are you doing the college tours and stuff like that? We're getting ready to do that. We're going to do it pandemic style. So it's a lot of, you know, I don't know how that's going to fly. Hmm.

I imagine private. Listen, I just took our almost 13-year-old to his first, he just went to his first day of middle school, and I can tell you that was rough watching my baby. Mm-hmm.

go into the world like a quasi-adult. It was a very scary moment. - Middle school is sixth grade, seventh grade? - Seventh grade, yeah, yes. So he was going to seventh grade and it was, oh, it was so scary. - It changes quickly. So I'll give you a little, this is a little story of how like, and I noticed it. 'Cause when they're teenagers, they really become people quickly. My daughter, when she used to get sick,

And you need an antibiotic. You remember you'd go to the pharmacy and they don't give you pills. They can't swallow pills. So they would make those concoctions like banana chocolate erythromycin, you know, and you'd shake it up. And I have one of those every morning. Oh, they're delicious. Yeah. I give it to her and she used to be, she would take it like this. Stink face. And it would take 45 minutes to get her to do one.

So about six months ago, she has strep. So we get her, or what is it? She had a terrible cold and I got her NyQuil. That's what it was. So I give her the NyQuil. I pour it, I hand it to her. She does this. Like a shot. Right. And I go, oh, you're drinking now. So that's what I'm saying. Like you learn, life comes at you fast. I had a couple more questions, John, just because I find you interesting. Yes, Sean.

I've always wondered because when you've done your show for so long. Please ask him his favorite color. Please ask him his favorite color. When you've done your show, I look at you and I go, what is your favorite color? I wonder what that guy's favorite color is. Blue.

No, I wonder how, because I think millions of people looked at you as the guy who had the answers. You were such a leader, right, in your lane. And so who did you admire? Who do you admire now? Who do you look up to kind of in your same field? Who's a game changer in world issues that you maybe commiserate with? Or who is that person or people? Fareed Zakaria. Thank you.

Jesus. I look to anyone on the MSNBC weekend slate. Okay, very good. Very good. I don't. And I, you know, it's interesting. I think. Where are you getting your info?

Well, I think like most people, I'm getting it through a fucking fire hose up my ass like everybody else. I mean, this world is nothing but info. It brings up a good point. Jason, you are convinced that there is a secret source of info out there that people have access to because he asks people a lot of stuff. There's a funnel of information that the media outlets have access to. A fire hose. Yeah.

Yes. And so I'm assuming that those in privileged places like yourself might still have contacts, leads, sources that you might keep warm. I do. I do. I do. There's something called, I have it, Apple News. Oh, God. And what I'll do is...

I'll click on it. Uh-huh. Yeah. And then a variety of stories will come up, places that I follow. Do you do the thing that I found myself doing recently, which is when I'm about to, like, having a moment, like, I'm going to check the news or I'm going to check Twitter and stuff. And I now have this moment where I go, how frustrated do I want to be right now? Do I want to ruin my mood? Yeah.

Right.

I would imagine you could risk exposing yourself to something that might upset you because you had an outlet for that and you could possibly affect change at five o'clock or whenever you guys would start to, because you could share that information to the masses and maybe some change would come. I don't think that was though, it's not purposeful like that. You know, I think, you know, the amount of change you can affect is really, I have one kind of monkey trick and that is that you can turn

if you have the ability to conduct light, in other words, like if what you do will attract attention, then the only real trick you have is you can deflect that light or attention onto something you think is interesting, worthwhile, funny, whatever. But what I learned about all this is

I think sometimes we confuse cultural power with power. Oh, yeah. And having a mouthpiece with being an effective agent of change. And the truth is that change takes place incrementally over time through the concerted, it's manual labor.

It's true, but there is now more than ever a pressure that is generated through media, through social. But it's not, it's not. So I used to, I was raised on the ethos of the emperor's new clothes, right? That was the fable, you know, the emperor, he says he's got a beautiful new coat and he walks down the street and the little boy says, oh, he's naked. And that breaks the spell.

And by pointing out absurdity or hypocrisy, the spell is broken. And that was kind of the way that I was raised, that I thought the world worked. What I didn't realize is, you know, you don't ever follow the story. And how it is now is he's not wearing any clothes. And then the crowd turns and rather than laughing, they turn and go, you're running a pedophile ring and you're fake news. And then they cast the boy out and then everybody takes off their clothes.

And they all just pretend that that's how that it was. So my point about that is shining a light on things can be waited out. I think what what those in power have realized is the attention span, especially in a modern media environment, has the circadian rhythms of Twitter in that it's ephemeral, it's ubiquitous and it's meaningless.

And so if you're going to bring shame, you better be ready to bring it over time. And it has to be concerted. So I always view what we do as these people that are bringing the real effort. You know, let's just amplify them in a way that makes it clear that we're not going to go away. Yeah. Because unless they feel that there's consequence to their shame,

Nothing gets done. And the only way they'll feel like there's consequence to their shame is if the shame will be unceasing. We'll be right back. All right, back to the show.

It occurs to me that potentially there was a time, you know, there's that stat that technology increases 30 times. Every 10 years, it's 30 times greater than the previous 10 years. And that's astonishing. And I think that we always, you know, when we had the Jetsons, we always thought like this is what the future is going to be. It's all going to be about technology. And truthfully, I think the thing that nobody ever saw was

the thing that was going to be the most important thing was information and the way that it's delivered and the volume of these, the sheer volume of it and the way that it can be really wielded as a weapon and be weaponized in a way that we couldn't imagine. We thought that the,

For instance, the Nazis had manipulated information to a way that we couldn't fucking believe. And that was, you know, almost 100 years ago. Now we have people who have perfected it and have found channels to, you know, vessels to do that in ways that are so incredibly harmful. But don't you think that we should have known that? Of course we should have. The one thing that is consistent in people is...

is that whatever progress we make will be perverted, that everything has that dual, you know, so when you think about the algorithm, right? So artificial intelligence, we're working to create, you know, this kind of intelligence that is far beyond the capacity that what we could do. And we will use it to advance the cause of longevity,

the health and welfare of all the people. And what have we decided to use it for? A way to keep you watching YouTube longer. Like that's what we use. Everything that we do gets perverted because, you know, if I may quote MC Hammer. Yeah, please. Sean does it all the time. It was a daily fucking time. He went, he was on somewhere and I can't remember where it was, but he said, you cannot consider the measure of something without considering the measurer.

And the point is like all these things are tools, but they are tools that are wielded by people. And people are flawed and are always looking for advantage. So, you know, think about every bit of progress we've ever made through science, let's say, like whether it's chemical or biological or sonic or anything.

Any progress we make, somewhere, someone has tried to weaponize it. - Yes. - And that's, we always have to take that into account. Everything that we get, what's better than the combustion engine to create progress and to lift people out of poverty?

and what creates global warming. Like everything, it's all a fucking balance and we just have to try and do it without falling over. The wheel led to, you know, car deaths. Think about it that way, okay? Where are you going to flush all the, you know so much that is so...

unsettling where do you go to flush all that out is it the bottom of a bong are you watching a nice cartoon um what do you or you meditate what do you what do you what do you what do you do i try and play the drums that's it i am not musical i took it up when i left the show i always wanted to interact with music and i'm terrible at it so i was going to learn how to play guitar i don't know if you guys have ever played anything but like i sat down with the guitar and i was like

It hurts my fingers. It's fucking hard. It hurts my fingers. And it's going to take me three years before I can even just play Blackbird slowly. But I know how to bang on shit. Yeah, sure. And so I can interact with music really quickly. What I didn't realize is how interesting. Fongos or with sticks? No, no, no. With sticks, baby. Right there. Let's hear a little something, John. I keep in my office, I have a little pad. Oh, let's hear it. Paradiddle, paradiddle, paradiddle, paradiddle. So I'm banging around all the time.

the thing that's incredible about it is, so it's all about like limb independence and creating these rhythmic connections that didn't exist before. And you can't do them when you first try them, but if you slow them down and you go through it kind of mechanically and with purpose, you can rewire slowly. You rewire. And suddenly now you can do it at speed and you're creating connections that never occurred. And you can almost feel the,

The synapses in your brain crack. It's like the opposite of death. And for me, I just like making shit, right? And that's what gives me a feeling of well-being or purpose or anything along those lines. And so discovering that was only five years ago was a real eye-opener.

Yeah, you hit Sean. Sean loves that. He likes making his housekeeper turn the channel on DirecTV and shit. Well, I like the sound of the click. I like the sound of the click. Metro moments, the best thing in the world. No, but it's like anything what you just described, as long as you want it, as long as you want to learn something, as long as you want to expand your...

your brain, your synapses, like you say, and you take your time to do it because you want to do it, you will get better at it. John, do you want to direct another movie? Yes, I do. Did you love it? I loved it. Oh, bossing people around in different countries. Oh, I mean. Yeah, it sounds terrible. I mean, it's just the dictatorial force that flows through your...

Cut. Again! That sweater. No, put him in that sweater. No, put him in that sweater. I love it. Speaking of which, did you wear a fancy director outfit on your set days? No way. Do you think Egyptian silk is fancy? Not if you're in Egypt. How do you define it? If you shot in Egypt, it's not fancy. We actually went there. Yeah. I actually went to, we shot in Jordan and a friend of mine hosted a show in Cairo

right during the middle of the revolution. And he invited me to come on. And I went to Cairo like a week before they overthrew Mohammed Morsi. It was fucking chaos. Wow. Is it safe to go there anymore? Can we go to Egypt yet or no? Oh, yeah. No, it was safe then too. I mean, it wasn't unsafe. He means him and Scotty. Their bags are packed. We want to go. We want to see where the aliens built those pyramids. Yes.

We went inside them and it's very weird. It's like when you ever visit where they built the Star Wars sets, it's all hollow behind it. The whole thing. Don't tell us on that. It's just a bunch of two by fours. What do you mean it's not real? I don't believe that it's not real. When you get up close, you go, oh my God, that's just magic marker.

They just drew that in. John, I always considered you, you always feel like you were like the senior when we were freshmen in comedy, and I still feel that way. Thank you. I appreciate it. I look up to you in that way. And you're...

Your sort of, your class, your grade, your contemporaries, we had, well, obviously Colbert, those are the close good buddy of yours, and you were instrumental in getting his show off the ground. He came out of The Daily Show onto the Colbert Report. Who else were your contemporaries? Who were the people that you came up with, like, in stand-up and in that time in New York when you were doing stand-up in the 80s? So that was all, like...

The class before us had just graduated and moved out to Los Angeles. So my class was, you know, down in the comedy cellar was Colin Quinn, Ray Romano, Chappelle. Rock and Sandler were more comic strip guys, but they would come downtown. But that was the same sort of era. Leary, Laura Keitlinger.

That was kind of the David Tell. What a great time for comedy. What an incredible, like the golden era of stand-up in a way. And the best part was the money. Yeah, sure, of course. I mean, so much. You know, you're working five nights a week for a plate of hummus and a couple of falafels. That was rock. Yeah.

But I will say you do... We loved it. So you guys are there, you're doing... Yeah, you're going down to the Comedy Cellar, you're making five bucks or whatever. But back then, too, the Comedy Cellar wasn't the Comedy Cellar. It was...

It did one show a night, except on weekends they would do two shows a night. But now you go down there on a Tuesday and they're going to do four shows and the houses are packed. And I used to go on every night. I worked – I was a day bartender at a Mexican restaurant up the block, which is, by the way, just – I don't want to romanticize the day bartending at a Mexican restaurant. On Bleeker? On Bleeker? That's – on McDougal. Panchitos. Panchitos.

Can I tell you a great story about working at Panchito? So being a day bartender in a Mexican restaurant, you are basically just like a laborer that's preparing margaritas and fruit for the night bartender to come in and fucking clean up. And so you make, nobody tips you out because there's nobody there. But there was this guy, Bob, who ran the place. He owned it. I left Panchito, it was probably in 1988.

1989 and finally was making, you know, the $15 a night at the comedy cellar and decided I'm not, I'm just going to focus on that. Maybe 25 years later, I'm walking down a village street. Now this is after the success of the daily show and everything. I'm the big man walking through the old neighborhood, pointing sights out. I had my first falafel sandwich. I see the guy who owned Panchito's.

walking towards me. It's been 25 years. As he gets closer to me, he just goes, John, and just keeps... Nice. Just nods, says John. Dude, that is... John. First of all, so New York.

Right? Because who gives a shit? Yeah, you're the big man, but also, yeah, you're John. So how's it going? That's right. By the way, I need you to pick up a shift. Yeah, exactly. So I was walking down 7th Avenue a few years ago, walking by this bar that will remain McManus at the corner of 19th and 7th. Sure, McManus. And I drank there every night for five... I claim that I could have gone to law school with the time and money I spent in there. I could have easily... So anyway, so I'm walking with my dad. And those drinking years are far behind me at that point. And I'm walking along...

And as we're coming, we're moving from 20th Street, we're right on 7th Avenue, and just getting closer, I say, this place, this is the place we manage where I spend every night for about five, seven years, just six nights a week, hammered. And I see one of the bartenders standing outside, this guy Mike, and he's smoking a cigarette. And I go, yeah, God, every night for five, six years, and I look up and I see Mike and I go, isn't that right, Mike? And he goes...

You got it, Will. We never broke stride. I never stopped to say hi. We just kept walking. It fucking... It was incredible. Yeah. You could have had the best production. You could never time that out that well. Hey, John, so your kids on the doorstep of going to college and you being an empty nester, have you and the missus started the plans for...

for empty nesting, how you're going to distract yourself from the sadness, or is it going to be all euphoric? Well, I mean, for us, it's just waiting for you schmucks to put out more TV. Go ahead, Jason. We sit at home and we just wait for it. Is there a new episode of Ozark? Can we do anything here? Yeah, when's Ozark coming out? I think January. That's when I'm... Fucking hurry it up. Yeah. We're making it right now. And spin it off. We're almost done. Because...

I need content. So it's just going to be TV? That's what you're telling me? That's what's going to be the tonic for you? We have a farm and it's like a rescue farm for cows and pigs and goats and sheep. We work with, you know, we really, I lived in the city for so many years and we moved out, I don't know, five, six years ago.

Just quality of life, man. Good for you. I spent so many years looking through the tube of the, you know. The paper towel holder? The cardboard table holder doing the Daily Show, like so focused. And I was so worried about like, oh my God, what am I going to do when I don't have that anymore? And then when I took it out, I was like, oh. Yeah. So you guys have been working in the whole world. Yeah. I've been working in the, and so. How old were you when you started the Daily Show? How old were you? Oh God, I was already like 35. 35.

I started, the Daily Show was my, if this doesn't work out, Panchitos is looking for another day bartender. Right, right, right. You know, it was one of those. Hey, John. Hey, John. Hey, John. Hey, John. Wait, that's a good question. What is everybody else's? Do you guys have plans? Like, Sean, what's your plan, your 10-year plan? Work my balls off. That's it? I think I'm going to be done at 60, between 60 and 65. I'm really going to be done. Yeah, but then what? Like, what are you going to do? Are you going to stay in L.A.? I don't know.

No, what is that? I got to tell you, with your skin, Sean, I'd keep going. Look at him. It's beautiful. It is beautiful. Thanks, thanks. I'd keep going. I don't see the sun. John, we've taken up way too much of your time. We didn't even get to if you had any shit stories because Colbert was on here and he told a 40-minute shit story about Conan, which was...

Sounds like it was very true. Yeah. But we've taken up way too much of your time. We'll leave you on that up note. Yeah. Yeah. Beauty. Jon Stewart, man, you're a fucking legend. It's a pleasure to see you guys. Lots of love to you. I've enjoyed this very much. And thank you for making it easy and simple and lovely. You've done the same for us any time we were on your show, sir. Thank you so, so much for this. Rob Corddry did the same for me when I was on your show. Yeah.

By the way, Rob wasn't even, I mean, we went through so many people just to see who would do it. I mean, at that point, it was Colbert, Oliver, Sam B. I mean, we went through everything. And finally, Corddry was like, short straw. I'll just fucking jump in. He was the only one left in the city. There was a skeleton crew, too, if I remember correctly. I remember the quote was exactly this. I'll take the hit. Okay.

That's fair enough. Thank you, Johnny. Thank you, man. Lots of love to you. Great to talk to you guys. Thank you, John. See you soon. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. You did it, Will. You did it. You did it again. That was a good one. You delivered the golden goose right there. Mm-hmm. That's the man. What's embarrassing is that Jason had asked him a few times, and I guess he had said no. No, that was Ryan Reynolds.

Oh, that was Ryan, and then Ryan said yes to me. Remember that? He sure did. He sure did. Boy, you're not holding on to that. Jason, you asked Jon Stewart to be on? Do you know how mad Amanda is? By the way, Amanda's mentioned to me, I don't know, let's say a hundred times that Jason got how many kids Ryan has wrong. And she was like, he knows he's got three kids. And we sent a fucking gift, and I can't believe it. I'm so mad at Jason for that. So rude. I'm sorry, I don't have fucking daily mail on my toolbar, you know?

Jesus. No, but he's a friend of yours, too. That's rude. But I don't... You don't keep up with your friends on Daily Mail. Oh, my God. I know. That's true. Jason was also really... I noticed the other day, he said, too, I was drinking these waters that Jason has and I go, I got these... I was drinking Archie Goat and then he said... What are they called? What are they called?

Lemon Perfect. Lemon Perfect. It's the best drink in the world. Fucking cool it. We don't need to mention Lemon Perfect just so you get a free case. That's like $20 worth. I want more than it. I want a whole truck. Who gives a shit? Again, unless they want to— I give a lot of shit. Lemon Perfect is incredible. So anyway, Jason's drinking Lemon Perfect and he goes, Oh, look at Jason. He actually started to call Jason Bateman recently.

A couple times, and he goes, look at Bayman drinking. You got that idea from my dad. And I go, actually, you know what, Archie, I got to be fair. Jason's the one who introduced me to Lemon Perfect. And Jason turns to him and goes, so, with that real shitty look. To a 12-year-old. To my 12-year-old. I go, did you just do the thing that we've been doing to each other for 20 years to my 12-year-old? He's like, yeah. Yeah. You mess with the bull, you know what I mean? So...

Anyway, let's get back to Jon Stewart. Jon Stewart. This guy, and even if he doesn't know how to spell his first name, I still love him more than most people on the planet. Yeah. I just think he's a perfect combo of smart and funny. Yeah. Guy, can we edit that out? I think he's married, dude. So, you know, I don't know if you're...

My memory of Jon Stewart also is just of all those, just, I don't know, 10 years in a row of being at the Emmys and him just winning every, you know, him going to the stage like three times in the night. Yeah, with just a team of the really gifted comedians

It's just that show stayed so good for so long. I'm sure they could have done another 20 years just as good. I'm sure. I'm sure he could have. And I'm sure if he said today that he wanted not necessarily the other show because Trevor Noah is very good, but like if he wanted to do whatever and he's doing this Apple show, which I'm excited about. Yeah, I can't wait to see that Apple show. I know. He's so missed. Did he say when that's coming out? No, we can Google it. I think he said end of September or at least by October. By October.

All right, I guess. Bye. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armjarv, and Bennett Barbico.

If you like SmartList, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.