"J.J. Abrams"
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Hey, Jason, did you hear? Bennett wants us to do an intro where we're at the dog track. Should we be worried? Right. Well, he's got great creative ideas, usually. Usually. But he looked a little drowsy this morning. You think he might still be up? It was a long weekend. Well, I'm worried because he keeps mentioning the dog track, and I'm like, dude, stop mentioning the dog. Who's going to the dog track these days? We live on the West Coast. We don't go to dog tracks. We don't go to Highline either, Bennett. Boy, take a nap. How about here comes Smartless? Smart.

Smart. Smart.

Let me ask you something, Will. Yeah, go ahead. Why do you wait literally until... I didn't wait. So listen to me. No, I'm just saying, you first of all finish eating. Can I just say something? You always wait until right before we start recording to shove eight pounds of food into your hole. Well, listen to me for a second.

So it's now, I'm on the East Coast, you guys are on the West Coast, it's one o'clock. So I was just, I was with all the kids. I had four kids walking into town and the dog. And it took us 90 minutes to go there and back. And by the time I got back, I thought I'd have more time. I'm like, shit. And I worked out right before and then I did a five mile walk. So I'm like, I got to eat. And I got back, I had four minutes to go. I hastily put together a turkey sandwich on some country white.

Okay? A little bit of mayo and some salt and pepper. Jason's peeing, by the way. Yeah, Jason's peeing. That's why we're starting the show already. And so I start with some sliced American on there as well. And then I hammered it down. And I didn't bring the Hal's chips, the kettle chips, into the equation. But now that you bring it up, I'm going to have a couple...

Uh-huh. Geez. Wow, that was a five-minute piss and Will's still eating. Says you. By the way, you have a gallon of electrolytes and you're giving me shit for eating?

What the fuck? Drink water. But wait, Will, do you guys ever go to like a regular gym? Will just got back from the gym. You mean, is there like a little setup in your house or do you actually go? And when you go, like I do, like normal people do, are you like a germ-phobe? Because I can't touch. Not in my own house, I'm not. No, no, but do you ever go to an actual gym? No. Yeah, I don't because of that exact thing. I will say this. I used to.

I still do. I used to go to the gym. I belonged to a very popular gym conglomerate for many years. Is it Hot Dudes? Is it Hot Dudes? It's called hotdudes.com. Did I already tell you this? Yeah, you did. Yeah, yeah. What's the address? Hot Easy Dudes, it was called. By the way, all dudes are easy. Who's kidding who? It's true.

Hey, I don't want to paint the picture that, you know, us, you know, I've been told this and I'm not calling ourselves the Hollywood elites have their own gyms. No, it's because of the pandemic and people set up their own. Well, that and also, like, you don't need your own gym. Like, just running outside or doing a push-up or sit-up at your house. As opposed to still talking, going to a gym.

going to a gym where you're sharing bodily fluids with people. It's just, even before the pandemic. You're not sharing bodily fluid. You are. You are. What are you doing at the gym? Listen, I'm a friendly fella. Um...

All right, let's get to it because it's... Will, are you done snacking? Can we go? Listen, I didn't start the show snacking. I snacked right before. Did it bleed into the show a little bit? Yes. All right, here we go. All right. You guys are... I don't want to tell you how you're going to feel, but you're going to be blown away. I love this guy so much because he is the funniest, most talented person in so many areas. He also has really... Yeah, well, we'll see. You know what I mean?

He also has really cool, funny hair. And if he's not careful and lets it grow, it will consume his face. But this guy's... Okay, how about this? The guy's first gig in the movie business was when he was 16 years old. He wrote music for a horror flick called Night Beast.

Huh. He also, I want to ask him about this next thing. He developed or some kind of something for animation, something for Shrek? Nice research. Nice research. Yeah, thanks. By the way, hang on. Wow. Are you telling me that this guy, something or something, is something for Shrek? Yeah, something to do with Shrek. I got to ask him about that. Wow. So wait. And also. Sean, you're the best journalist I've ever met. Also, wait a minute, you guys. Listen to this part. This guy directed Shrek.

Star Wars, Star Trek, Mission Impossible. It's J.J. Abrams. It's J.J. Abrams. There we go. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Look at this. No way. Look at this fella. Yeah, he's got a real shallow depth of field on that webcam. I got Darius Kanji to do this podcast. Wow. We appreciate that.

You know, it's funny, JJ, you always know when I email you because I start every single email I've ever sent you with, hey, JJ, JJ, JJ, JJ, JJ, JJ, JJ, JJ, what's up? He must love it. It's great. It's funny. Never gets old or funny.

What is JJ, by the way? Jeffrey Jacob. Got it. Oh. Never Jacob Jeffrey. No, never. Not once. No, because it's not his name. Yeah. How are you guys doing? Real good. We're doing great. How are you, JJ? Wow. I love this podcast. I can't believe you're having me on, and I actually think...

You haven't listened to this. No. You haven't listened to this. No. Not one thing. No, I will, though. I'm going to, after this. You'll listen to your episode. You'll listen to your episode and you'll send us notes. No, it's, honestly, I love your show. And I'm honored to be on it. You're very sweet. Thank you. We're honored to have you. First thing I want to say, and Sean kind of tipped on it right in the intro, how much

stuff you've created and worked on and done and how incredibly busy you are. And it leads me to my question, which is, I see some guitars in your background. I'm thinking, when the fuck does J.J. Abrams have time to play guitar? When he's scoring Shrek. I guess. And did you score Shrek?

I was in the middle of Shrek and I just got inspired to get into guitar. I didn't know you wrote, but I left out, you also wrote the theme songs to like Alias and Lost. Is that true? I didn't know this about you. What instrument did you start learning and why?

How old were you? I only did those theme songs because I could. Because I was the one who said, okay. Like, no one would ever let me do that. Right, but you can write music? Like, how did you learn music? Like, was that a thing? I can't read music, but I've always played and I've always, you know, I remember we had a piano when I was a kid and I would just, you know, bang on the piano. My dad would walk by and say, stop. Stop.

That's encouraging. But I always would think, you know, God, I wish there was a way that that was, you know, a string section or something, you know, an orchestra. And later on, you know, I was lucky enough to live in an era where they actually started to make synthesizers and samplers and things where that could actually happen. Yeah, that's so cool. So now that's what I do. Where did you grow up? Where was that? Born in New York and then raised in Los Angeles.

Okay. Yeah. That's very similar to me. And your parents were in the biz, right? Yeah, my dad still is a TV movie producer, which is unbelievable. He's made a ton of TV movies. Yeah, I didn't know this either. Wow. And my mother was also, she was a lawyer and all sorts of things, but she also was a producer. And so I was very lucky to get to grow up and visit sets. My dad had an office at Paramount Studios once.

when I was young, young, and I remember at like 13, 14, I'd go and visit and I got to know the guards and they'd let me in

to watch them when they were rehearsing like happy days and laverne and shirley and morgan mindy and i went into the happy day set once i mean it was amazing yeah wow what was your memory of that oh just watching jerry paris direct and watch these three huge cameras rolling around totally and all the marks on the floor and yeah you know really i mean it's it was it was awesome yeah i mean and somebody like me who grew up in the midwest watching the show like i went to

I went to a taping of Laugh-In. That's in the 70s when we were kids. God, you're ancient. Which, by the way, you've talked about on this show. Yeah. Just to prove that I've listened. Yeah, that's true. Wow, good for you. Good callback. Oh, that was the Amy Sedet... Okay, I'm sorry. 14-3. Minute marker. Exactly. But to know that you guys were...

in the thing that people just watch. Like we had no idea how it was made or anything. We were just like, oh my God, look at these characters coming out of our screen. And you guys were there. That's so cool. I've always thought that would be a fun book, like called Fourth Wall. That would be like, what was the fourth wall we never saw of all those sets? Yeah. Well, you got two guys right here who would never read it.

Hey, JJ. It's like flipping the reverse button on the iPhone, right, to see the other way? Yeah, exactly. I would have said, like, I grew up in Toronto, and maybe I'm, like, the only guy in showbiz. I didn't care. I didn't really care about how it was all made. I didn't really care that much about showbiz. You didn't want another magic trick? Yeah, I don't know. It didn't really. How do you feel about it now?

I love it. Of course I love it. And once I started doing it, but when I was younger, I wasn't like enthralled with it. I mean, I grew up watching TV in the 70s. I don't know how old you are. I'm 51. So I was born in 70. When I was a kid in the 70s, we watched TV, but I hear about people. I'm like, it wasn't easy.

in my experience in that way. It's funny, I don't think I thought about it, the sort of how-to of it at all either until I went to the Universal Studios tour. Because that was the thing that made me realize that it was a thing to do. That God just didn't make episodes of Batman. You know, that it was...

It was Burt Ward and Adam West and those friends. Yeah. I did Silver Spoons on the Universal lot, and Ricky Schroeder and I used to get sort of the wiggles out. We'd ride our bikes around the back lot there, and he had this aquarium in our school room there that had fish in it that would only eat other fish, these just vicious, you know, huge mouth fish. It's such a metaphor. We'd go to the Jaws Lake and collect,

goldfish in plastic bags to feed the fish. So we'd get out in the middle of the lake, which was only about three feet deep. We'd roll up our pant legs and wade, you know, and try to get these fish. And eventually our parents got a letter from studio services saying, hey, so we're trying to scare people on the tram when this big white shark comes out of the lake and it ruins things when we got the two 12 year olds out there.

You know, netting goldfish. Can you leash your dogs, please? That's amazing to grow up on those studio lots. It is twisted, yeah. So listen, so about that. So about being a kid and getting into sort of an excitement about the business and stuff. Is that where your attraction to making stuff came from? Your parents, the fact that your dad and mom was doing it? It was fun. I just remember being, you know, a kid and going to –

sets and sort of watching and whether it was something that my father was producing or my mother or just visiting, you know, Mork and Mindy and watching those people in their civilian clothes rehearsing. Like, I just desperately wanted to be part of it. And it's funny, I remember that my father pointed out, because I was obsessed with like Mary Tyler Moore's show. I love that show. And I remember that he pointed out Jim Brooks's laugh, you know, and his laugh is just, you know, that, oh,

And what's amazing about his laugh, and if you watch any episode, you hear it, and Taxi and everything, is that it's not just that you hear his laugh, but it was where he laughed that was so interesting. He would laugh in moments that weren't just the sort of mass audience laugh. Like, he would laugh before a thing was happening. And he would laugh, and it was this weird...

I remember as a kid, like I'd be in an elementary school watching episodes of Mary Tyler Moore and hearing that laugh. And it was like it spoke of the rehearsals. It spoke of what he knew was coming. It was a kind of encouragement to the actors. It was this conditioning the audience, too. Yeah. But it was just yeah, it was this weird sort of thing that was happening that was like it felt like a closed caption process of like of Mary Tyler Moore just because of that. But I just I was always aware of it, but I wasn't really aware.

you know, determined to have some part in it, whatever I could do, until I went to Universal Studios. Yeah, where does comedy sit for you? I don't think you've done any comedies or a lot of comedies. Do you want to? I've never done a comedy, and I would love to. Comedy was...

For me, obviously, The Carol Burnett Show, I Love Lucy. All in the Family, all those, yeah? Every Norman Lear show. I was obsessed with all of it. And Three Stooges I loved. There were so many. Looking back as a kid, yes, I'd watch Batman and I'd watch The Twilight Zone. I was obsessed with The Twilight Zone. But everything else was the old Dick Van Dyke show. I just loved talking to Jerry Paris. I just loved comedies.

Yeah. Did you, so how did that start with you then? So like...

How did you start as a showrunner, first of all? I know that was Felicity the first show that was yours that you show ran that you were EP of that you created? It was the first TV thing that I did with Matt Reeves. I'd been working on a bunch of movies. I'd written some and I'd been rewriting a bunch. And I was in this kind of weird cycle of doing rewrites for things that I was just sort of feeling lost as a soul. I was like, what am I doing? How old were you at that point? 12.

25, 27, whatever. So you're 25, 27. You're kind of like in this weird gray area where you're doing rewrites, you're getting hired, you're a rewrite guy, but you're also trying to get TV shows off the ground. No, I'd never thought about doing TV. You hadn't thought about it? No, I just was, I just happened to get into writing films and I was, I had written a bunch and I was just sort of feeling like

I'd lost any sense of purpose or joy in what I was doing. Had you studied writing in college? Yes, I took a writing course with a great teacher who I adored. And I didn't know what I was going to do. I thought maybe I was going to be a novelist for a while. I had no idea. I just wanted to do stuff. I remember in my senior year feeling like, oh, it's over.

Like college is about to end and I better make a fucking decision. I better do. You know, and I had this weird thought, which is like and it was such a weird practical thing. I was like, I need an agent. I don't know where that came from, but I was like, if I'm going to succeed and do anything, I need that person who's going to help.

And there's no writer showcase in college, is there? No. They don't come to the college looking for you. Jason's actually asking you if there is because he pointed out before he doesn't know anything about college and it scares him. And also, did you guys teach roofing at your college? Sorry. Inside joke.

Wait, wait. But you come out and you do this thing. You don't know what you want to do. And all of a sudden, so you kind of like back into Felicity in a way. I'm putting words in your mouth. What happened was I met Katie McGrath, who is now my wife. She's the best. She's the best of all the people. She's the best? Yeah, she is. Of all the people. He found her. You should meet her. She's awesome.

So she reminded me of the thing that I should not have forgotten, but we can only remember so many things at one time, which is write things you care about. Write what you love. I was like, oh, that thing. Be authentic, Will. Don't be full of shit, Will. What does that mean? Come from the heart, Will. Go ahead, JJ. Sorry.

Please. So I told my friend Matt Reeves, who I had known since we were kids, about this idea of a girl going up, following a boy to college, like doing something really ridiculous and making a crazy mistake, but realizing it was something that actually was good for her. Anyway, so we started talking about what that would be. I wrote this pilot. Matt said he would direct it. We showed it to Imagine, who had never made a television show at that time. And they just brought on someone who had never produced TV before.

Tony Kranz from CIA. He was an agent there. So none of us had made TV before. And suddenly, you know, they bought it. It's amazing that imagine, this is for Tracy, that's a company run by Ron Howard and Brian Grazer. And Ron Howard, being the man who basically started television, had not yet produced a television show. Please continue. Yeah, and I was so excited to get to be working on a show with the guy who I used to watch rehearsing Happy Days. And so we did this show, and...

It was madness because none of us had done it, so we didn't know what the hell we were doing. And it was really fun. Big success, too. So you do Felicity with my friend and your friend, too, Kerry Russell, whom...

I adore her. One of the best people. I cannot say enough things. I just heard about your wife, but I always thought Carrie was the best. But now I understand that... Carrie is another one of the best. There can be millions of the best. She's just the... To me, she's the best. But you do Felicity into great acclaim. I remember when that show came out, and it was... Obviously, it was the first big thing for Carrie, and it was huge, and it really put her on the map. And also, people were talking about you a lot, and...

And then to the point that when you did Alias, it was like from J.J. Now it became from J.J. Abrams, the guy who did Felicity. Right. My point is your trajectory, even though you were unsure at 25, pretty soon you were able to sort of course correct and you start doing Felicity. And from that moment on, did you have any sense that you were going to become J.J. Abrams, who not only shepherded –

Star Trek, but also Star, the fact that you did Star Trek and Star Wars is boggling. It's not sustainable, JJ. What's going to happen? You can't keep this trajectory. The only way is down. You're absolutely right. You're going to crash for sure. He's got Katie though. He's got Katie running shotguns. I really hope you saved a lot of money because I don't know what your monthly nut is, but honestly, I'd pare it down. Oh my God. Well, you're like my conscience. I know. Everything you're saying. I would pare it down. It's like just before I fall asleep at night, every night. Um,

No, the truth is that when we did Felicity, we were on this network which is no longer the WB. And the WB did this crazy thing, which I thought made no sense at all, which is... The frog? The frog was one part of it. People were listening like, what the fuck? Tracy, the frog was the mascot of WB. Okay, go ahead. They would put on all of their posters and materials for shows like,

from producers as if it mattered. Right. Like, they treated the people, like, no one who knew who Joss Whedon or Kevin Williamson or J.J. Abrams or Matt Reeves were, and they put our names up there as if it meant something. Right. So I sort of blamed them because it made no sense. It was like, who the fuck cares it's from J.J. Abrams and Matt Reeves? Yeah. Yeah.

We've done nothing. Tell me if the frog likes it. If the frog's liking it, I'm watching it. It was like they needed to fill the space or something. I don't know. They did all their shows. Well, that is one of those things that we do and we see in show business. And for Tracy, when you see that thing that says, from the people who brought you, there's a really good chance that those people have no idea that this thing exists. Right. It's a lot like when the movie Seven came out and the title sequence was so incredible. Yeah.

And then the people who did the title sequence all broke up into like eight companies. And suddenly every title company that was out there was like, yeah, we did seven. And it was just like, you know, from the people who brought you the title sequence of seven comes this title sequence. It's also like you meet a lot of executives in this town. I remember people being like, you're hearing like, you know, you'd see them, they'd move from one company to the other and then you'd see Variety and they'd have so-and-so and he worked on Arrested Development. And I'd talk to Mitch and Mitch would be like, I have no idea who that person is. Right.

But they happened to be in the building the day that Arrested Development was greenlit or whatever. Yeah. All right. Back to the show.

JJ, for me, you being on the podcast is not only just an honor that you're here, truly, but great for me. No, there's a butt coming, JJ. Okay, here we go. Yeah, yeah, wait for the butt. No, yeah, because it's coming. I got to go, guys. Got the good part. He just got the good part. It was an honor. Click. That is survival. You got to go out on top. I wish you learned that years ago.

No, so this is great for me because in the podcast form, I get to ask you all the things I've ever wanted to ask you. But when we see each other socially, I can't really be like, what was it like working on Star Wars? Yeah. Right. No, but I get to ask dumb, dumb questions. Like I've always wanted to know like two questions. What was your favorite movie as a kid? And what was the first movie you ever saw? And what was your favorite movie as a kid?

were those inspirations to you? I think Mary Poppins or something was the first thing. But I remember seeing the Hunchback of Notre Dame, the Charles Lawton version, and it just...

crushed me. Like it was this weird thing where I was like, I knew while I was watching this, I was like, you know, seven or something. And I knew while I was watching it, like this is crushing me for life. This is like, this is an adult because it's like, this is a story of, you know, of fate and love and oppression. And, you know, and I just remember just being this kid, just feeling like I,

I didn't know how to process it. It was so, and it was heartbreaking and that this guy was, you know, at the end when he's like, you know, if only I was born as stone, it's like, you know, I was a puddle for, you know, I think decades. That's heavy. That's a heavy burden to carry. Oh my God, that movie. That movie's amazing. And then by the way, when you go to the Universal Studio Tour. I love that it's Mary Poppins or Hunchback of Notre Dame. Yeah. But you go to the Universal Studio Tour and they're like, and this is where we shot Hunchback of Notre Dame. You're like, what? It was like, as a kid, I'm like, yeah.

It wasn't there. Now, are you the kind of guy that watches a bunch of movies? Wait, wait, wait. He's got to answer what his favorite film was. Oh, yeah. I think, you know, I loved, as a kid, if you're asking me as a kid. Well, both, both. As a kid, but also of all time. Well, one of my favorite movies of all time is Philadelphia Story, which...

Interesting. I love like crazy. And I also. Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks and Denzel Washington. Just fantastic performances. And. No, go ahead. Keep going. And North by Northwest too. North by Northwest. North by Northwest. Yeah. North by Northwest. Yeah. What about you? North. Yeah. With a, by Rob, by Rob Reiner. Rob Reiner. He killed it. Oh no, that's North.

When I was a kid, I was 11 years old for my 11th birthday. My brother took me to school. You were 11 years old for your 11th birthday? Mm-hmm. Thank you. No way. What a coincidence. How lucky were your parents on that day?

Right? Sorry. Yeah, school wasn't wasted on me. I went to go see, my brother took me for my birthday to see E.T. And I'm sitting there and everybody in the theater were all crying at the end when E.T. leaves and Elliot's there. And I said to my brother, I said, oh my God, I'd give anything to be that kid, right? And he goes, yeah, Elliot, all these kids probably want to be Elliot and have that experience. How cool is that? And I go, no, I'd give anything to be Henry Thomas. Like,

Like I knew at 11 years old, I wanted to be an actor. The opportunities it had in him. I wanted to be that kid. No way. Yeah, yeah. I told Spielberg that story too. I was just telling my kids, we were walking on this big walk and I was talking about, they were asking about Star Wars. My 11-year-old was asking me about Star Wars and I said it was the first film that I remember seeing in the theater and it was the only film that I've ever seen. I saw it four times in the theater.

And they took my whole... That was 1977, so I was seven. My whole school went to see it because it was such a phenomenon. Nobody had seen... And I was trying to say to my kids, nobody had seen anything like it before. There was nothing else. There was no other sort of frame of reference for it. It blew everything...

And now they're so, of course, you know, Friday, my son is waiting for Black Widow or they're waiting for Loki to come out every day, you know. But back then, this shit, that was incredible. I don't know if you remember, as a guy who's now a director in the Star Wars and part of the whole Star Wars machine, do you remember having an impact on your life at that age? Yeah.

Oh, my God. Not only was it... I mean, for anyone of our generation, it was obviously such a massive and insane transformative thing. And those movies were in the theater for over a year. Yeah, right. Like, they'd come out and they would just stay. God, that's right. You know, which is crazy. Yeah, isn't that where the term blockbuster was? Yeah, Jaws was the...

Oh, Jaws, because it was around the block. The line was around the block. Oh, is that right? Oh, my God. Wait, wait, is that true? I just felt like such a Tracy in that moment. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's true. JJ, do you know the answer to that question? Is that true? I believe that that's the answer, yeah. Lines around the block. Yeah. I guess that makes sense. Sean, see, well, he's not stupid. I don't know what you're saying. I know. I feel bad about my text I just sent you. I feel really bad about that last text I just sent you.

Can I tell you, JJ, I got to say, I love, first of all, we don't really know each other. We've said hi to each other a bunch of times over the years. But there was a time, a mutual friend of ours, I don't know if you remember this.

A mutual friend of ours about 10, 12 years ago was sending an email out to everybody and he forgot to BCC, so he CC'd everybody. So everybody in the A's and B's in his address book sent this email and we all saw each other's email address. And it included you and me and it was the woman who did Hurt Locker, that great director. Catherine Bigelow. Catherine Bigelow.

I can't believe I forgot her name. Annette Bening, a bunch of other people. So he immediately said, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry that I sent, I forgot, I should have BCC'd and I CC'd and I'm so embarrassed. And I sent out an email at the time and I singled out a bunch of people and I was like, hey, listen, Catherine Bigelow, big fan. Hey, Annette Bening, I've got half a script I'd love to get to you if you've got a minute. And I said to JJ, hey, can I want to be in some of that space shit? Right?

I was just bored, and I sent it out, right? You immediately responded to all, and you were hilarious. You were like, you're in, blah, blah, blah, blah. I need your sizes. Anyway, you were so super funny, and you always seem really, really down to earth. I just love that about you. I want to say this. Thanks. You got great vibe.

You've got great vibe. That's very generous. Yeah, it's true. Thank you. And yeah, it's funny. Even though we don't know each other, I always sort of feel like we do, which is completely unwarranted. I know. Well, I'm a warm guy, too, on top of it. So I think we're both warm guys. And before I ever met you and confirmed how great and warm and cuddly you were, I'd always heard about it from Grumberg all these years ago.

- Yeah, Greg Grunberg. - Greg Grunberg. - He's a friend of yours that-- - He's an actor and you guys were roommates together, right? - You guys have stayed so close for so long. I just think that's such a great sign of someone. - We met in kindergarten and it's surreal to now be old men.

Yeah. Like, you know, we've known each other for so long. It's like it's so bizarre because, you know, you see that our kids are now so much, you know, older than we were when we met. And it's like, you know, it just it confirms that we're all going to die. That's reality. But JJ, to all of that, to the point of all of that, who in the world taught you how to manage so many personalities with a smile on your face? Because you always do. Everyone that deals with you feels respected and valued.

And I've seen it firsthand. You're always so kind and generous and giving people time to listen to them and respect them. And of course that makes you an- I'm sorry, I just wasn't listening. What were you- Okay, good. And he'd be a better director.

So who is, is there something or somebody that taught you that? This is the truth. I, I, I'm so grateful that you would, again, super generous and probably not warranted. What I would say is this, is that everyone has their own different reasons for getting into this business and for doing whatever they do, or at least wanting to get into the business. Of course, there are no guarantees. And I, I know for me, it was that I just never, I was never good at anything before.

I was not a very popular student. I was not a very popular social kid. I was awful in any sports context. It was just one of those things where, like, I just knew. I remember being in elementary school, literally walking through. I remember where I was when I had this epiphany. And I was like, I just remember, this is not my moment. Right.

Like, just fucking get through this. Like, I remember feeling like I can't, this is not, and when you're a kid that is either, you know, bullied or not particularly popular, it's not like I didn't have some friends, it's not like I wasn't a happy kid, but like, I just... You had Gromberg, but you guys were not crushing ass is what you're saying. Gromberg was doing great. I mean, Gromberg, he was one of those kids that like, no matter what we played, Greg...

was like a superhero. Yeah. So he'd get up to bat and you just knew that that ball was going to just go, it would land in another school. Like it was, and I was just the kid that was going to strike out. And so he carried you early on and now you're carrying him. That's kind of a great, yeah. Honestly, he was always, you know, a great friend, but it's, it's not even that it's just that feeling of knowing what it's like to not participate. And I think that

When you're someone who, I mean, who knows what, but when you're someone who isn't particularly seen or getting any kind of respect, like you just, you feel for and have compassion for people who are, for people. Yeah. And since some people, when they're given the privilege of oversight and leadership, they will now exercise all the bitterness that they have and make everybody pay. Although some people like yourself, you know,

remember that experience, hold on to that empathy, they relate to that, and then they make that circumstance better for everyone later. Yeah, and that's why you're a great leader. I think. It's nice of you to say. I mean, I'm also, you know, obviously equally –

you know, frustrated and, yeah, not tyrannical, but like, you know, I'm, Katie's going to cover it all in her book. You don't, you don't need to waste your time here. Oh shit, you do, do not mention her book. He doesn't know. Guys, is there a book? I will say this, JJ, what do you think about this? So Jason's got this theory that once he's had a certain level of success, it will afford him the ability to then be very generous with other people. Yeah, still waiting. By the way,

By the way, it's true. Right? Wait, Jason, what's the theory again? You said it to Ron. You can't wait to be... Oh, no, I said when I was sitting there when things were not going great for me whatsoever and I was confused about whether I should posture when I go into auditions and I should act like I don't really want it, but inside I was desperate for it. And I was watching him do an interview once and he was so friggin' kind and warm and unassuming and...

as he always has been. And I remember watching that going, God, I so badly want to be that kind and that warm because that's how I feel inside. But I feel like if I go into these auditions and I'm that nice, they're going to think I'm desperate.

And so I thought if I ever had success where people wouldn't misunderstand that. You can be kind to people. Then I can be as kind as I want to. And I don't know if I'm there yet. But, you know, Will's laughing his ass off. It was a real deep moment for me. It's my favorite. Motherfucker. It's my favorite.

Look at the, you can just see the blackness in his heart right there. How is that blackness? The laughing. I want to get to the stuff that I want to ask you. Do you have any great Broadway stories? Actually, J.J. produced a great, great, great Broadway show. What? Come on. Called. Called? The Play That Goes Wrong. The Play That Goes Wrong. It is a huge physical farce and it's hilarious. Really? It's great. And was that the first Broadway show you produced?

That was the first one, yeah. And then we did the Darren Brown secret show, too, which was really amazing. Wait, you did? Yeah. Do you know him?

I do. I've known Darren for a long time. That guy's amazing. So, JJ, I have a question about stepping up from something that would seem to me very sort of manageable as far as scale goes as a director and then making a leap into an apparatus as enormous as the things that you are now rightly known for. And to make it relatable for those that might not be in the industry, can you talk a little bit about what it is that makes you capable of

taking on an enormous amount of responsibility and to Sean's sort of earlier question, embracing that kind of responsibility of leadership. And just for listeners out there that might find themselves in a moment right now where they could either step forward into something that might be a little bit uncomfortable, but they think they might be capable of it. And what was that? What's that process for you?

Well, obviously, all creative endeavors and collaborations are a leap of faith. You just don't know what's going to happen really until you're in it. And what I found is that there's actually very little difference between doing something as relatively small as, you know, Felicity or Alias and doing something that is, you know, far bigger like, you know, a Star Wars or Star Trek movie. Of course, there are a million differences and yet the fundamentals are the same. And I just feel like

in a way, it's less about the managing. I did this years ago. I did this panel with Chris Rock, and someone asked, how do you hire people to work with? How do you find them? And Chris said this thing, which I thought was so smart, which was that he's like, I try to hire my boss, right?

Like I try to hire the, someone's going to show me how it's done. Like not the person I have to, you know, and I think that's, you know, when you work with people who are as, as talented. It takes courage to do that though, you know? Well, but I think that it takes, it's, I guess it does on one hand, but, but to me, honestly, it's like, it is so moronic to go into something that is so enormous where you, everyone is, is the same importance and, and to not have people who, you know, will show you or offer better ideas. Right. Is insane. So for me, it's,

Every time I'm working on anything of any scale and I feel freaked out or unsure or adrift, I look around and I find incredible comfort in that. So I think that the analogy, it's like once you have led – there are teachers out there and if you can wrangle a classroom of students, you can probably –

manage, you know, almost anything. It's like there's a kind of, I think, you know, through line to just knowing how to deal with people and how to spin plates and make sure that things are, you know, juggling a lot of stuff. But

The truth is that the process, of course, the stories are different, the sets look different, the special effect budget slightly higher on Star Wars and Felicity. But when you're working on things like that, the experience of just trying to tell a story, you know, having a camera on two people, it's weirdly, the important stuff is weirdly the same. Did you find it difficult for working on Star Wars and Star Trek to kind of navigate

navigate wanting to tell your own original story as a director, but it was created by somebody else? Because there's so many people coming to you every direction. It's like, why would you want that job? It just seems, what made you say yes? Hubris and stupidity, probably. I mean, the truth is, and you all sort of know this in different ways, when you get involved in something that pre-exists you, you're immediately on your heels because no matter what you do,

Someone's taking it personally. Right. And we live in a world where you hear about it, too. There's no quiet. There are no internal thoughts anymore. And so that is—that's a fucking nightmare. That aspect is awful. But the truth is—and I'm not joking when I say hubris, because to say yes to something—

that is not just enormous and a religion for people, but also that has a release date and not a script. - But having walked through that fire and landed in such success, can you say to that listener out there that don't worry, the confidence that you wish you'd had at the beginning actually exists on the backside of walking through something that you wonder if you can handle?

Two things. I think that both the sense of confidence can be the greatest asset and it can also be the thing that blinds you to the reality that you're only human and you can only do so much in so much time. And so like I look and this is not, you know, it's a funny thing when you get involved. I'm sure you've had versions of this, too. So.

I'm not complaining about this, but I know it's common. But when you're involved in things that matter to people, no matter what you say, no matter what you say, it is somehow taken out of context and then spun. And there are so many reporters who I love and admire, especially in this moment when journalists are getting their asses kicked

you know, it's more important, I think, than ever to celebrate them. And yet there are some that are just kind of clickbait whores, let's be honest. And we'll do... Well, yeah. And, like, I was being interviewed by someone and they were like, what do you say to people who hated The Last Jedi because they think it's a feminist, it's feminist propaganda or something? I was like, what? And I said, look, if you, I think if you hate a Star Wars movie because, you know, you probably have bigger problems with it. And, like, the headline was, like,

J.J. Abrams, colon, if you didn't like The Last Jedi, you're anti-feminist. I was like, holy mother of God, that's an incredible math problem that you just... Here's the problem. The world we exist in, one of the things, and I'm, by the way, you should know I'm on this crusade to get deputized in this small town on the East Coast that I'm living in right for the moment because I want to go around. I'm going to get people. I'm going to spend all my time. I keep talking about it with the guys, getting people for not using their blinker.

And I'm going to, by the way, I have to say one thing. So this makes me insane.

This not blinker, like blinkers don't matter campaign. The anti-blinkers. What I would say is this. I have not heard about this. What are you talking about? I haven't heard it either. People don't use the fucking blinker. I mean, it's like, I don't know when it became uncool to signal to human beings whose lives are in your hands, I'm turning left. I'm filling the jails. So here's the thing. The Tesla apparently has the, you can make your own horn.

Don't you think that people should have, use your blinker as the horn? Oh, that's great. I'd love to bring you in. It makes me nuts. I'm going to bring you in to speak to the community. Oh my God. Uh, uh,

Wait, how did I start this question? I had a really great question and then we just got... Yeah, you were talking about critics. Oh, critics. I was going to say, you know, we live in this world where the critics, of course, they're looking for clickbait because their livelihood depends on it, right? So, like, they can go, whomever it is that they work for can take a look at the data and say, your stories aren't getting clicked on, so therefore... And by the way, that goes for reviews, too. You can read a good review for a film that has a bad headline. But I think it is yet another way that...

money has corrupted yet another thing. It's exactly right. It's all about, you know, the clicks aren't just clicks. It's like, well, you're going to keep your job if you get a lot. You know, everything has been corrupted. It's a nightmare. It's nice, though, that Rotten Tomatoes has somewhat mitigated that by aggregating all these interviews and just, you know, reducing them down to just a number. A little bit, but it's still those same people. But, J.J., let me ask you this. So having said all of this and kind of going off what Jason said earlier,

and again, this is for sort of for Tracy and for all our listeners and, and for me too, are there moments that you can go back and you can look objectively and say, wow, I've done a lot of pretty cool things and I've done some great things. Is there, do you have those moments? And I know a lot of people say, well, I can't really, I got to keep my, the pedal down and stuff, but you've done a lot of really cool things. Do you ever allow yourself that? I mean, at all? It's insane.

incredibly nice of you to say that, but honestly, it is so not how I see what I have done. I mean, I know I've been given incredible opportunities and certainly chances to do things that I don't know if I necessarily deserved, and certainly people, there were other people who deserved more than I did, but when I was asked to direct

a Mission Impossible movie, you know, when Tom Cruise gave me that opportunity, that was something that I could never have predicted. And literally the day before he asked me, I could never have predicted. I didn't know that was coming at all. Really? At all. At all.

He gave me a heads up about it, but I didn't. I wanted you to be surprised. Well, you didn't want to freak him out. Yeah, I didn't want to freak him out. We loved that. I loved the one that you did with Carrie in it. Oh, yeah. She was so good in that. But my point, though, is that I feel like I've gotten incredible opportunities, so I feel very lucky to have done that. But I also don't like learning lessons on other people's dimes.

And I feel like, you know, when it's a dime as big as, you know, Mission or Star Trek or Star Wars and whether it is, you know, a little fumble or a big fumble or a thing that I wished and, you know, no one else sees or a thing that a lot of people saw that could have been what it wasn't or whatever, it makes me wonder because I never in a million years thought I would be doing this.

versions of movies that existed when I was a kid. Right. I never thought that was where I was going to go, and I just ended up kind of getting sucked into these things for various reasons and blamed no one but myself when things go wrong. But, like, the things that I love, you know, that I've been involved in are a lot of things that are just, you know, usually the sort of the original stories that when Matt and I did Felicity or Damon Lindelof and I did Lost, it's like those are stories that, like, you know, it was especially fun because they weren't

about extending a universe that was already created. It was about building one from the ground up. Right, right. And you built out a lot. You built Bradley Cooper's career. You gave him a career. That's what I keep saying to Bradley. I know. Bradley should, and I'm putting him on notice. I'm just taunting him so that he'll get mad enough to come and do the show. And we will be right back. Okay, and back to the show.

Do you go crazy when you're not working? Do you like to keep busy? Are you one of those people like when you're younger, all you want to do is work, work, work, work, work. Yeah. But then you get into an age. Are you still are you there yet? Are you like, God, you know what? I'm sitting around. I can't. I hate feeling idle. I need to just work. Or are you enjoying it? So Will's earlier question of when do you find time to do music? It's like I do like making stuff like I can't help that. And so I

working on songs or working on, you know, like literally ridiculous art projects or like, you know, I got involved in this crazy modular synthesis thing, which is a rabbit hole I beg you to not go into because it's literally, it will take over everything in your life. What is that? What is it? It looks like an old timey sort of telephone operator switchboard where you have these cables and you're connecting different things and it's like a means of making music and it's

A bizarrely sort of meditative kind of fantastic, weird... Wow, I want to see that. What's it called? Modular synthesis. I could show you, but no one could see it. Yeah, that's okay. Sure, we'll describe it. It sounds like Johnny Greenwood kind of stuff. It is. It's exactly that. Hold on. Can you see that? Oh, my God. Listener, we're looking at a... That's like a mission control type of... Wait, that... JJ, that thing makes music?

It can. Have you ever considered scoring one of your things? I have, but like I said, I don't know. When I'm talking to people like Michael Giacchino or, of course, like John Williams, and you're like, all you want to do is just disappear as a human. Because these are actual masters. Exactly. Again, in the category of you want all the help you can get, I don't know if my scoring my own thing would...

because you want them to elevate your stuff, not destroy it. Let me ask you, you mentioned before about not wanting to fail on somebody else's dime. Do you have a regret sort of professionally? We talked a little bit before we had Bob Odenkirk on here and he and I were both lamenting that

that Brother Solomon, this movie we worked on, wasn't better than Will Forte wrote. That we always-- It was a great script and we wished it was better. -I mean-- -It was fantastic. But there were things about it that were like, "I wish we had done this." Like, I have such vivid memories of like, "I wish in that scene I had done this." And I wish that this had-- Do you have those moments? Do you have those-- Is there a scene or something that sticks out that still bothers you to this day that you wish was different?

First of all, I will say this, that anything that I have worked on, it's a massive collaboration. So I can't speak ill of any particular project without it coming off as some kind of awful comment. Right, and we're not going to put out a headline that says J.J. Abrams regrets Star Trek, Star Wars, Felicity Ailey. But casting Bradley was a mistake you've unleashed. It was a huge mistake, and that will be the headline for sure. Yeah, we got it. But the answer is 100%. Yes, of course, there are...

in everything that I have done, I look at something and think, oh, I wish this had had, you know, there are times I wish I'd been stronger enough to say to a network, no, we're not ready to do this. We're not ready. Because there have been shows that I have been involved in that I know had potential to be something that was not realized because we were trying to please an arbitrary timeline that was decided by someone who, you know, wanted to make an announcement, but

but had nothing to do with the actual creation of it. And I don't blame anyone. You know, it's my fault for any of the things that I feel like could have gone this way or that. I mean, I'd like to think we all make the best decisions we can as we go. And it's so easy to look back and go, that's when you should have said no or that's when you should have done X or Y. But I have a ton of those feelings about some holistically, about projects and some within them. And, you know. God, I just look at you and I just think like, what that must feel like to have made good movies. Yeah.

I don't want to share that. I have no idea what that sense is. Because of that, JJ, and all of that tremendous success, is there a genre that you haven't tackled? I know you said you touched on comedy yet or that you're afraid to because you can probably pick anything you want to do. And what is that next thing? There are so many movies, like I'm sure with you guys, that I just, I love and I look at and I think, oh my God, like that is so, you know, you look at something like

to talk about Jim Brooks again. Like, it's like, it is so unbelievably brilliant or Tootsie or Back to the Future or, you know, these movies that you just think, holy, what the fuck? Like, what magic? Like, it just, it's, they're so deeply good. Magic is right. You hit that word. There are, all of those movies have magic in them. Well, but you know what's different though about those movies versus some of the big sort of effects movies and summer tentpole stuff that really, you know, deservedly drive our business is,

Where do you stand on how those types of movies, like a broadcast news or a Kramer versus Kramer, Tootsie, you know, I'm not going down Dustin Hoffman's career, but where do you stand on those existing on a streaming platform, right? Not a theatrical release, that there's a possibility that those films could,

could be made more often nowadays if we all accept that maybe those are not going to get a theatrical release. In other words, they don't need to be seen in a large format. Would you be okay making those movies and the studio saying, listen, it's going to go to streaming because these types of movies don't drive the kind of box office attendance that warrants the huge marketing spend that we would have to make?

Can you pull the question out of that word salad? Yeah, I mean, first of all, I think anything that allows a movie that is as good as any of those you just mentioned to get made in any format, I think is a good thing. For too long, obviously, there hasn't been an outlet for that size movie. But having said that, and despite what Barry Diller just said about the movie business being over, which that was just a ray of sunshine, I thought. But the...

I think that there's a human natural need for us to gather and not virtually. And I think that you can't, like the fact that people are at the first opportunity rushing to restaurants and games and bars, you know, like it is a sign of like people hungry to live. And it's not necessarily like, oh, it's going to be the roaring twenties. It might. And I kind of hope it is. But the fact is, I think that watching a movie on your iPad lying in bed is fine and it could be even great, but

As we know, there's nothing as good as being in a big theater and people screaming. It made me think of this time just because I can't not talk about Ron Howard every five seconds. I went to go see, this is now years ago, but they were showing a Harold Lloyd movie, Safety Last, at UCLA. And Ron was there. And there was an organist playing the music live. And it was like 2,000 people. And when I tell you that people were screaming...

at this movie that was made in like 1917. Yes. As he's climbing the clock tower, like screaming. I watch all of those. They're hilarious. And he was amazing. And by the way, do you know the story about his hand, by the way? No. Yeah, well, that he didn't, that he was missing fingers or something. All right, you can just ruin it. Sorry. No, he does that. We'll cut that out. No, go. What are you talking about his hand? Why have JJ on? Why don't we just interview Sean, Jason? No, sorry. Wait,

Wait, we'll pretend we're not doing anything. But the audience was going insane for a movie that, you know, you would not typically be watching. So I just think remembering the audience reaction to certain moments of, you know, Bill Murray's in Tootsie or something, there's a power and a memory that gets made being in that room with those people that you just don't get when you're sitting on your bed watching. And I just feel like

Yes, we can see movies, but to experience them, I think that being in the theaters is the greatest. And I'm hoping as we go back to the world, hopefully sooner than later, that...

that that will become more popular and that movies of that size, because I think the success that all sorts of size and shape and form movies are having on streaming doesn't mean that they need to be limited to streaming. I think they can, they could exist anywhere. Right. That was a more word, solid answer than no, I love it. And, and can you give us a little, all of that, that you just said, can you give us the tiny bit of a little nugget of what's coming up next for you? What you're super excited about working on?

Yes, I'm going to – I wrote a pilot that I'm directing at HBO called Demimonde that we are going to shoot early next year. What's Demimonde? It's a big –

swing show for us that I hope without getting into the story because I don't anything I start talking about would sound shitty what's the genre it is it's such a weird one it's like it's a funny thing when I think about my favorite movies they're usually these weird combos of things like I loved I mean it could be more different than this but like American Werewolf in London for me

is like if a Snickers bar were a movie, it would be that. It's the perfect specimen. Remember Alien was like a horror film, but in space. It was like, wait, what? And of course now it's like, well, it's Alien, of course, but at the time it was a crazy mashup. So this is a bit of a mashup of different genres, but it's the characters that I really love, and again, I'm thrilled to be working on something that is an original concept. And J.J. Abrams, when can we expect to see that? Uh,

I would say end of next year. Fantastic. Sean. I'm excited. Nice. And are you, talk a little bit before we let you go, because we thank you for this time. Talk a little bit about family, being so busy, being

shooting on location sometimes not having the flexibility to come back and forth also with that uh the incredible opportunity that you and Katie have to be working together like how how much of a joy that must be that you guys don't have to separate at the beginning of every day and come back to get you know it's a hugely important part of why I think

Bad Robot, our company, works at all is because of all the work that Katie does in it and for it. And it does hit me every once in a while that most people don't get the opportunity to, and a lot of people don't want the opportunity to get to work as closely with their partner. But to me, the idea of working with someone who...

I trust a lot, like, you know, or he trusted the most. It still wouldn't compare to working with Katie, who I just know we have mutual, all our interests are aligned. But the family part is, you know, I just rely on pandemics to say, look, we're just going to be a year, year and a half. No, the truth is it's a strain. Sometimes you do certain things like, you know, on Force Awakens, our daughter came with me to London with a friend. So she was there for quite a bit, uh,

On the last Star Wars movie, our oldest son came with me. Like, we've figured out ways to try and make it work better, but it's just hard. And as you all know, having a family that, you know, at a certain age, you can't just, like, up and move. Yeah, because they want their social and school continuity. 100%. So the truth is it's been a challenge, and except for the two Star Wars movies, you know, I haven't shot anything outside of –

L.A. with the exception of a few weeks here and there. So I've actually not been away. Those two movies were like two years, so it's not like a blip. But I guess I'll say this is that it's just such an important value to me knowing kind of what sort of parent I wanted to be. And I'm sure as we all are, we are just fucking it up and making mistakes that we can't possibly quantify. But I feel like there are moments when I'm with

any one of our three kids. And I just thank the universe that those moments exist and that we are as close as we are. And I do think, no joke, that the pandemic...

was this crazy galvanizing, you know, with all the pain and agony for so many people during it. I've heard from a lot of people, and I think we felt this too, one positive that came from it is just you could not help but get closer. And it was just, that was the beautiful aspect of it. Yeah, that was my experience too. And we, I will say this, that again, kind of going off what you were saying, that yeah, of course there were so many people around the world who suffered a great deal.

And so not to minimize that at all, but for my family, my own personal experience, because we live in a world where we just only talk about our own experience. And if it doesn't line up with my experience, then fuck you. It's got really ugly. But I

I know. With me, it gets ugly quick and out of nowhere. I didn't realize I was in a pitch black room. And the turns are often violent. Oh, my God. But it was a great... Yeah, in a lot of ways, it was a great experience for us, too. There's our quote. We got it. No, but I was going to say the quote is really that J.J. loves show business more than his kids. And I think...

Hats off, because it's not for me to judge you. And Jason wants to know, he wants you to make it okay for him to feel the same way. And so once we get you signed off, because you're really a titan in this industry, then he'll be okay and he'll have enough success to be nice to people. Well, JJ, thanks for coming on the show.

Seriously, JJ, thank you for being here. You're so kind. It's such an honor. We're all such huge fans. It's amazing. I'm such a fan of yours and the podcast as a whole. It truly is. You should charge guests

Oh, you're getting invoiced. At the very least, you should have the guests do one of the commercials. You really should. I know. We'd love to do that. That's a good idea. We're going to get you in here. No joke. Thank you so much for having me on. Oh, my God. Thank you. JJ, thank you. Thank you, pal. We love you. It's so much fun. And you guys are awesome. Thank you. So are you, man. Have a good day. I hope to see you all in person soon. Me too. Bye, buddy. Thank you. Bye.

All right, so I said to Will a couple days ago that, you know, I was listening to the podcast, and every time we sign off with a guest, you know, they go away. We just go into this big puff piece kind of like, oh, aren't they great? And so down to earth and all this shit. But we mean it. Oh, I'm sorry, Will. Should we wait? We'll take a tight five while you eat? You know? Jesus Christ. But there goes JJ, and I...

I can't think of anything but just the most puffy, positive. You're the one who brought this up, and now you're doing it. I know, but I guess it's just maybe it's our fault because we book nice people. And I don't have a nasty thing to say. I don't want to say anything. He's just great. For me, like I said, I see JJ socially, but I never get to—

fan freak out on him. You guys have game night or something? What are you talking about socially? What do you mean you see him socially? What are you trying to hide? I see him socially. By the way, I wore my Tatooine hat today. I just noticed that. Jason, do you even know what that is?

Uh, sure. I see it on, uh, on dork chat every once in a while when I watch. Yeah. Listener, Sean's wearing, uh, wearing a Star Wars hat. Tatooine. Like a real deep cut one that just says where, isn't that where the Ewoks live? Do I have that right? No, it's where Luke Skywalker lives, asshole. See, so I get kicked out of dork chat.

But so for me, like... Try to say something nasty about JJ. You can't. You can't. I revere him like people do Spielberg. You know, he's a great interviewer, a real hero of mine. Yeah.

My God. Yeah, Jason, you're a director. Do you ever want to do big stuff like that, like J.J. does? Of course. Of course I would. I mean, and that's kind of why I was asking, like, if I ever got one of those calls that he got, you know, one day he's not doing Mission Impossible, the next day he gets a phone call to go direct a, like, what? Okay, am I capable? Would you step in one of those franchises, though? In a second.

You would. I would. Let me ask you this because you—

you're starting to really establish yourself as a director and a really good director and a sought-after director. That's nice of you. Well, it's true. And you're a really, really good director. And I give you a lot of shit about Ozark, but you're really good. And you can tell the episodes. And I don't mean this as an affront to the other directors. I can tell the episodes that you direct because you pay attention to all the right things. And I do like the way, and you and I joke, we hate the term storyteller, but you do tell great stories. I know. Don't even say it. But I will say this.

So then you see a guy like J.J. Abrams, who you guys are not dissimilar. You both grew up in L.A. You both have... He was, you know... Great hair. Great hair. Well, he was a writer and a director, and you were a performer, but you guys both ended up in similar lanes, right?

He is servicing, to Sean's point, movies that other people came up with. A lot of, like, he's doing a lot of Star Trek and Star Wars and huge, and he does it really, really, really well. Imagine what it would be like, and he kind of touched on doing this pilot where he gets to tell his own story. I think it's incumbent upon him

him to bring back the tootsies it's on him to bring back those great movies that we talked about the the networks all that stuff yeah i would way rather than see you step into one of these franchises that i don't want i would just love to challenge myself with with with just the responsibility and and and you know no matter what the movie was it's just the process of i i you know going right to the edge of what i think i can handle i i i get that part of it but there are

We do live in a time, I think JJ's right, we do live in a time where movies can really come back in a real way, and we have a chance now to reset. But I think that's what streaming and, frankly, Netflix is allowing for. You can make these smaller movies that aren't super sticky and loud conceptually and all that stuff. There's a place for them now, and it's great. Well, would you please make it? And you and JJ. Right, totally. But I have to say, in this context,

country, once you introduce a convenience, it's hard to take it away. And that convenience has been introduced. I think both can coexist. And I think the industry can still be healthy. Coexist, coexist.

Coexist. Oh, that's what your bumper sticker meant. Yeah. Oh, with the coexist. Now, that car that you had the bumper sticker on, did you lease that or did you buy it? Smart. Worse. Smart. Worse.

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