641: Passkey Usage, Writing Code with a Bot, and What’s Up With Java?
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Got me show in OK with these crease.

Great crease. Oh my god. What's a .

war of sound like art?

That's Frank and stein. He took slow, right? I can do IT .

you surprise me. Halen just card .

is a ghost drive. I wanted to get there as that bo oile.

what kind of card .

does a druga drive?

Lood fang?

Yeah, this is a literary .

just it's kind .

of like an accident joke that's not fair time of, hey, hold, i'm sorry somebody yeah, that s weird and like my cameras kind of messing up, I know what what's going on. It's weird. Can you still hear me now?

Still hear you. But yes, I I see the camera has yeah, I seriously blocked out.

Oh, my god, dave, just your your skin is left in your bones and your blood and all that's .

left skeleton. No.

that's 我。 I'm just on a phone call with A A talking skeleton now.

And yeah, yeah, very good. So anyway.

yeah, what do you got any bones with anybody?

I get bonds to pick. Let me tell you. Did you hear the one? No, no. Really think .

through past .

this is we're going on with the camera.

Can tell daves home deeper, but IT.

I think that I fixed now .

most of just a camera bug.

Well.

but that was where to turn on extra mode.

Cheese camera sound spoke when I tell you now this all wing stuff .

still lurking around.

just still .

learnt IT yeah yeah you .

got some even wait many .

stars guy doctors .

took a blood, but test doctor says came back all starbrook. Hey, and i'm not gonna like throw my kids in the bus, you know, but they don't eat the Candy. fascinating. So i'm gonna, you know, I mean, it's is signy like they got way too much, so i'm just going edia.

And here they're old enough. Now that they do, they have to self regulate.

Or do you have to step in regime? But but they do like Candy for breakfast, Candy for lunch, Candy for dinner, kind of think. But yeah, yeah, is the season.

This is the season. Yeah, fair enough. I don't know what our plan is. He just doesn't care that much. You know we want to have just not even halloween really, which just parade the day we are go to a parade like a homecoming .

high school parade yeah we we had one in our town and and that's part of .

the deal at a parade as they throw Candy, you know, throw Candy off the flow every float in this parade. Osa, every float through Candy was more Candy than halloween for sure just standing in one place, no dress up you like, yeah, he's she's like, why would we do halloween .

parade less effort. Yeah, you can just do the brain .

circuit at first. I like how we're getting a lot of this. So I lifted my shirt up. I did the little, made a little school. The .

kangaroo, ah, yeah.

kangaroos. ouch. I was just, I looked enormous at the end. He was, yeah, my kids brought .

home a big g bag, a Candy. They're not touching IT. I'm like, sweet did smart showing up.

They don't have any .

hands off ones. They don't prioritize IT is like they .

grow up the rules here they are top get put like .

put them in the freezer. There's some for eat now warm, but some for eat cold later. You got to think about that.

So our families, weirdly heavy on milky way lovers.

very okay. I don't know.

Just to me, they never felt particularly special. But i've come around to, I am like a milky.

it's kind of like sneakers without the church and .

that little IT like the peanuts and whatever, right? And then the three mosquitoes says, nothing but the spear. New, good. And for some reason this hits less good.

makes my teeth tingle when I think about IT because it's like, you know just like cos IT just star phone you speaking of .

things you might pass on, we did have a question come in about feel .

about so .

how opinions are you about passes? This just seemed to be like an old round of opinion. Ation was going on about them for some reason.

I don't know if anything happened in the world of package, but I was more just like just I don't know sometimes it's just kids in the water and people feel like talking about IT. I read a number of posts on IT, but now here's the actual question. Implementation across OS and browsers seems high.

Websites don't seem to be making the switch or even offering past is as an option. I've noticed limited pass of adoption in google products. I can think of any sites that make use of package.

Um I recall which had some enthusiasm last year. I think I did the code pen of value and discover here bee dragons. Have you noticed in the adoption in your personal professional use of the web?

So yeah, I think I was I think I drank the cool aid for a minute because they do have some features that are pretty sweet for a one like it's not a password. Passwords are obnoxious. It's just wood.

The door is just open for you here in hey and that feels nice. And then and then on top of that, I was like, what the extra secure somehow, you know, that can be fished from you is in that kind of neat. There's nothing to give away. You can't give IT away. Wow, pretty neat.

But I remember having conversations with you though that that were a little bit like, yeah, but what if I switch votes are have multiple computers in all this stuff and the answer seems to be, well, does that because you've got a keep those pages in a manager of sorts, you know and I know the platforms offer them and they tend to be silos of a sort. They want you to keep IT in there. And I whatever. Fair enough, I guess. But IT has the question has been raised them, like if you're using a really secure psych m like that, like a wallet or up or something that keeps them, then like are they really that much Better than passwords? Like now that you're you're a big time API user, you're not that much faster.

I mean, what's interesting is it's like it's kind of like multicultural factor, right? Like because I have a APP I use that I logged in with package .

and I have to so that's .

one right there。 I go in, I click and say, I cope, here's my email and then it's like, oh, that's a packy here. Scan this with your phones so I have to pull up my phone, unlocked my phone with my face. Now i'm in the phone and I go and I scan the thing IT opens the pi APP and and I say, yep, log in here and then IT says, okay, cool, i'll do IT and then IT resolves and so it's it's pretty cool. I think my only beef with IT is if we're getting to pull the phone out the pocket to log into a website we got to .

have on your .

not phone yeah like my best top right? Yeah like I feel like if we're getting to that place, we need to really make the the session persistent. And I think that's the problem I have with the the you know APP and using the web APP time, using the hazard is just like it's like if I click wrong or click back and I actually go back to the log in screen and I try to lack forward IT puts me through another off flow or whatever and i'm like, dude, we need this needs to be super good if this is the way to log into something, you know what we have to has to be like, oh, I remember you you know because it's it's just a pain in the butt. I'll like pull this out and if .

you're doing if you're logging on mobile, it's a bit different .

because it's it's not .

a big problem whatever and your face again or whatever IT does yeah even though the scanning of your face isn't really part of the past key, it's the thing that like unlocks the past or something. That part always confused me and it's not your face logging in or your finger or whatever. It's it's something else, but that thing needs to be protected. So IT feels like .

it's your face yeah yeah so it's kind of like, yes, it's basically i'm face signing in, but i'm face signing into get into my phone and so that feels secure. I mean, is secure. Is anything else on my phone mean so and like that's a personal device.

I feel like that's a good that's a good thing. So it's a good way to log in. It's just basically like we're gna let somebody who knows who you are in theory, is you because you are holding the phone log into the thing. So I think that's yeah yeah. So I I guess .

i'm going to say I I don't alright hate IT, but IT does seem like anywhere that offers the the dream of having IT like replace passwords doesn't seem to have played out. And so if you're going to offer IT, you're offering IT. In addition, you're offering IT as another thing that you can g in if you want.

And the reason you might want to is because maybe you're sold on this idea that is extra secure or maybe you like the ux of IT feels a little quicker to loggins. You're choosing IT, but but the password thing is still there. So then if you explain that to the center of a web APP and you say, hey, you want to stop everything you're doing and add another way to log in, it's not the only way.

It's not absolutely revolutionary. It's just more stuff you you could IT would be fair to say this is just some more technical that would you like IT, please? And I can see something to just feel feel like i'm sorry what you know no, I don't want any more technical that I don't get to replace anything.

I just get to add IT don't love IT and I don't know. Maybe though we will see how a plays there does seem to be IT went further than I thought I would go. I do see IT on some apps.

I think the person writing in here, rm wrote in was that you've never seen IT. I have seen IT. I think I think it's like home deeper. Maybe has I see IT in in like a large scale ish e commercial apps. And sometimes I admit, sometimes I logged in and IT IT feels IT feels great because I go i'm in sick sweet yeah .

I would honestly I think any next time I role in the system, which I don't know when that'll be, but first I going to happen something like that. If I were to make something, I would absolutely use IT like for like a side project next time I need off because I just I literally don't want .

to store up your password. I don't and support only wait .

a log in because I just I don't want to I .

love to see how that goes, where those stories, because IT IT does seem possible to me that somebody y's like, I did this, but then I drop my phone in the river and I got a new phone. And now the past I was on that. And then then what? Then he would be like, O, R, you can literally never log into that up again. IT is over. You need to start a new account or relax.

And real crimes that the .

thing is that round that I just make my cloud.

yeah, everything is backed up on. I called when I buy a new phone is that you want just log in and are like, yeah and then all my apps and all my like dogs and in the latest states even are .

like oud is optional. It's maybe one hundred percent of people do IT, but you know you don't have to use IT, right? But maybe apple smart not to be like if you don't use IT, we don't want to be the middle manu like we don't want to have devices at the bottom of rivers that have ass that have important package on them.

We're gonna that you can't loggin with a asked if you don't have bike, if you're not putting IT somewhere that's back up. We're i'm going to let you do IT. I don't know.

Maybe they do they that that feels like bad journalism. Sorry, everybody. I don't know what the answer to that.

I would think IT yeah I I think because they're kind of broadening the whole passwords, pass you APP thing like your shared password coaching. Yeah.

yeah, yeah. I I like IT because I D be free then. Of whatever free at the cost of deeper teeth into you in an ecosystem .

you stuck on one O S. For the rest you like.

But is IT good enough? I wonder if people i've done that like if you, if you're like me and you're just like whatever i've been on apple since i've been a wheel. So it's like i'm not probably not switching.

Does IT make sense for someone in my shoes to teach the one password thing and just go with the the new passwords? I call IT new, but IT only feels new because they like give you an icon for IT. Now it's been there forever.

But now that there's an icon that totally feels different, feels like o this sounds like a real actual passer manager. I usually take stops to turn IT off because I don't want them fighting. Like if i'm just going to use one, can I just use one please?

Yeah yeah it's like, yeah they're always it's like everybody y's like, can I feeling your prosperity 去 那边？

It's it's still uncleared me of this day when I go to a website and I need to pick a new password in some old topic, A U, I pops up and as a suggested password, you like, go. thanks. I don't know who's suggesting that. Is that apple or is IT one password? Because I use both and I don't really care, but I would be nice to know who is suggesting .

IT and i'd kind of prefer IT because when I had say.

her blog in remember and I don't know to the day, usually i'm like a hope when you got IT and Normally I have a jo B2Be don e. There's something i'm trying to do in my mind and I I don't care to like keep my password hygiene fect at that moment. I know just let me in because i'm trying to do my job and then if IT becomes a problem later, I know there's some dumb flow and i'll go through IT and reset IT. But at the moment I just needed whatever pay my guy. Co.

no, I don't know.

I wonder that was .

I wonder too. I just like, I wonder if you could do IT only like, like, you know, we've all coded a past form at one point in our lives probably. And IT is not it's not like, it's not fun.

Yeah, you get all these rules. You have to do all this. You like, we've used password. Like, what if we just didn't do that part? You know, in our phone was like, oh, I do all that, I do all the like security bits. You know, you're saying you're get .

a web dev bonus so that tides IT to this show a lot more clearly that if you, if you only supported pause, you'd never have to fail at coding a flog, inform and H, D, M L, because there is an even one there yeah like.

live in the dreams, never even fill IT out. You just give me your email and they're like, okay, well, this guys of so maybe give us a pity and say, yeah, here I am they say, cool, good to come on in and that maybe having the email is maybe the like twist there is like, maybe that's the way to eat the phone in the toilet or the phone in the bottom of a river thing is they can always rescue IT via the email like put in your email, will send you an email link to reset or we initialize a pity.

You know so maybe it's that's yeah if you used if that was your kind of primary keeping for you, yeah we definitely do that at code pen. Your email is the, is the main keys, and once in a blue moon will get somebody right, says, I I D. I made my account with twitter off, which we have long since removed, because grew that nobody used IT anyway. And IT was broken on a lot and was like, this is worse than not, you know, have you get is worse .

than dot having eons like it's two hundred million dollars.

But I get because at one time, these social auth would do this thing like they return some kind of token for your APP and use the token in your APP. And then if you get that same token back when they off, then they're logged in. We do do IT that way. We offer you with twitter, which we're not using anymore, but any other p google get hub, whatever. What you get back after a successful loggin includes the email address of the account that was just successfully off and then .

we just match against .

that sure exam before. But IT works superfine. So when you write back to that person that's like on the twitter, logging doesn't work. Come like any of these will work for you and you can just reset, you just log in Normally if you want to two so you can never be up pop creek, you know yeah, email as the key is nice, which just shoe horns to what you are. Just saying that my work with past keys as well.

I wonder if it's the picture IT seems icy, right? Email rule. But I saw this thread like ox Russell did like another platform, a janci kind of thing like where web is competing with native.

You need to understand that. So like what are we in? We're losing the mobile web, if that sense, versus mobile APP native them contest.

But then somebody was I saw on the thread, somebody was like, yeah, but you need fighter. I need fighter two security baba ba. And he was like, that exists. It's already there. You know, it's best, you know.

yeah, that could be cool too. You do after right code, but you are abstracting IT in the same kind of way, you know. But sometimes that feels good, doesn't IT.

You know, we're more and more using a strike elements, which is I need a checked form to take payment methods on my APP stripe in their great D X ways. Does here use this? And you just loaded IT up and IT loads this payment form that you've seen before. And they are heavily invested in the quality of the U. X. Of that experience and then you just use IT if you means you didn't have to code, isn't that great? IT doesn't seem to me there is been a log in version of that all maybe maybe my experience is like you, what do you use lura h off there.

something your zero.

which did they provide a component or did you still of code that in yourself?

And they we ended up coding in yourself. So that's thing that's like the twist with all these clerking work go as not zero. And so i'm just kind of I have very specific problems, but like just generally speaking, in summer Better than other those. But like they're like you don't even you just drop in a component in the work and and I think you can do that if IT like looks a particular way, but I think like you very quickly get into this. Like, well, I wanted to like, look the way I wanted .

to look fts colors, spacing.

And so then you kind of like that little, which IT doesn't work. I think we actually use the off zero one as much as we like. We bounced out to like an auth server for that.

Yeah that's what I seem to remember. Not that is still just go look, but there's a like the background of IT felt really but the actual author, m, you could almost you are a season developer could smell that you're elsewhere for sure.

And it's just like, that's unfortunate, you know. So I was kind of like, let's just keep IT simple and do everything over their password reset, all these these flows and views and stuff like let's do all that over there and then we will do our thing here.

It's not that weird to draw the same connection to stripe. That's what stripe check out is. As you literally leave your website and go over to you'd see IT, it's familiar. It's it's like when you can smell sharp fy check out you know like yeah this before. You've seen the stripe check out before. Two IT has kind of a two panel thing when you're on desktop and stop, you know because their market chair is so to hang ging to actually not and always feels Better you know you're like, oh, thank you at this looks very familiar and secure .

and good yeah yeah but I check out but it's just like kay ool, I get, I get, I get what's happened been to one of these before. But I think like I just you know, I think the goal is to always do that and you know just to get started. But that does sort of shake up. The U X.

IT becomes as like, you know with the goal was always to get back around to IT and like fix IT up, you know but just you know yeah in the in the idea of keeping things clean, we would leverage this you know but but to me, I is that I don't you know when you go with these auth companies, they're fine, they're good. But like eventually they give you the shake down me and then I go, you got you want to single sign on to enterprise. Well, that's a billion, two billion other thing, you know, uh, they just you know start when IT costs a whole bunch of money to like implement A S soo or get like you know ten soso licenses or whatever. And so like that was always fresh ing to me, was just like I just want to get people to log in and then have whole companies log in if necessary, but just a pain.

So you know let's you're gna go down this package out just to around this out. You like that's not code free. I don't think it's quite as simple as is ots euro or I think maybe this maybe you could use ozu only only turn on the pi option or something, although i'm not sure if that will be who you're not.

But if you wanted to write that yourself, you can it's just done. It's definitely code and you're probably out there looking for a dev kit or rustic or whatever of some kind. And I seem to remember one password offers one of of sorts, so whatever. But yes, that seems highly unlikely that most apps are going to be like just just handle this baby absolutely not.

Yeah you can look .

for something and then now you're writing less code, but you're depending on more code, which is part of the dance of development.

And then IT becomes this even worse situation. I feel like where like it's like promises like they're like, oh, we have this amazing API and you just hit IT and then like you're writing all the code to hit all the API and points at the same time and all the A P I is doing is saying, yep, that's a valid user.

Like, like I could have writing that code I but I went with you to make that easier, but you guys like got me into a position where I have to hit your API. You know, like, like I made IT worse by depending on third party for this, some. That's where I might do if I could just pass IT that would be beautiful for the next thing.

And I just literally never, I just say, cool, store your public key in the database. Talk to me later. Come back later. You know, i'll add IT, i'll add to whatever one of my new apps I just do. IT game started, but is coming.

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Know, I just get delivered my little dix talk again. Some of the process are writing IT up a little bit. One of the things I talked about in IT is that there's a like I think we're living IT right now.

This you're in a code editor and the code itor is trying to help you code. Thank you. By the way, love code dator are trying to be helpful and there's different ways that I can do IT for one, snippets are always nice.

Then there's lots of VS code extension that just offer snippets, lets you write a bunch of next J S or something and it's got some component generator that spits them out or you're a red wood J S user, which is as much more kind of openminded folder model of a component that has the queries and styles and all the different stuff that IT does very useful. Great snippets and IT falls in that category. Automatic snippets, all this stuff got to have snippets.

And then there's um auto complete or intelligence, that language servers ish stuff where it's like you start typing an attribute or something in ht miles ago, you're trying to write you know R S selected or whatever. And IT gives you this option and you select IT from from the list, a widely regarded as a great dx concept. Give people in tEllier ense language specific, you make IT smart, great stuff.

And then along comes A I in IT needs to shoe horn itself into that already like a little bit crowded space of helping you write code. And I don't mind the completion stuff that it's done. I think that whoever first invented that probably deserves a little, a little capper o oh like, you know how we apply, you know, pull to refreshing stuff.

I think I think goes text with tab is up there in the really cool U X things that, you know, somebody discovered at one time. But IT IT is at odds sometimes with other things. There's not that many keys to accept IT.

What they didn't what they did is the tab is the key that were going to do. They didn't roll in and say, hey, we're gonna ghost attacks. And then in order to accept that, you have to hit, I don't know, option g or something, they just wanted IT to be tab.

Well, the problem with tab as tab s fights with snapp TTS. Sometimes auto completely, I feel like, is generally bound to the enter key. So you see the list, you error up and down IT, if you need to, in the new press enter and then IT select something from auto complete.

But both tabs and A, I type a heady stuff, are that. So that IT ends up in a little bit of a fight. And so far, so good ish, in my opinion, that you, because A I takes a second.

But a lot of times if you have a snippet in mind, you'll beat the ai text appearing and then the snipper kind of wins. So if you know you want to snip IT, just be quick about IT and you'll get IT. But as as A I gets faster, which seems to be happening, that fighting gets worse.

And then you gotta wonder where we're we're going to go with that, not to mention type ahead. Is that the only way to use A I? There's a lot of like selecting and opening up a chat in interface. Chatty stuff is a whole part of IT. It's just there's a lot more U I happening with helped me code than there was.

I say all that to say that john elwood wrote IT and says, you guys want to try what must be the most maddening experience ever this is very specific as editing A P H P file that uses tables for HTML for an email and wait for IT using code um or a little AI body of choice with suggestions turned on madam he said, doesn't really explain why but IT must mean that like the thing that he's trying to do is such as kind of a somewhat strange combination of technologies, meaning its P H P that's really H T L, that's in a table for an email. A I probably has no idea what is trying to do, and all the suggestions probably suck. So you write, do you guys ever played beat the bot, where you put your cursor on the next line and try to type what you want before the suggestions come .

up and throw everything off? What's funny? This funny? Yeah, I mean, it's it's a battle. Mean I I sometimes onder if it's getting Better or worse that's kind of my yeah feeling on IT.

I feel like IT is like, you know what what is showing me right now like my most recent memory is like capable code like but it's all wrong. Does I mean like all the variables are wrong class and is wrong, but it's like it's ballpark correct. But IT was definitely not the right code deal extent. So it's like, okay, I can hit tab and finish .

this almost almost prefer when it's very wrong, then when it's very suddenly wrong .

yeah and so it's like I could hit tab and fix this or just keep typing in. I have IT, but then I get a hit tab at some point. And probably actually in the early days.

they wanted do IT to cycle through them too. They said, here's here's a action. But they were less confident about what I was.

So they like or hit whatever come and k or whoever whatever IT was to cycle through different possible suggestions, which was OK. But I don't know, IT feels like that you I didn't hit real hard. So it's I see that less and less. It's like take .

IT or leave IT.

I don't know that's why it's interesting though you it's fun d to think about because he feels at least I can think about A I had not get frustrating because it's just a we're just talking about A D, X and U, X concept here. I don't have to trouble my mind with everything else that buggs me about A. I I could just focus on like, well, what's the experience like.

yeah is the experience good? I think yeah, so far I do use IT the copilot so and fine with that is generally pretty good, but IT does. There are times where it's like, mean and I wish you'd get out my way and that's a bad place for a tool.

you know so that is I from day one, I was like, can there be a setting and I I hope I don't take offering. Can there be a settle lightly? Settings are a pain in the bird.

And i'm sure most support emails that start with, can you at a setting the answers absolutely that. But IT seemed to be a valid one to me because I wouldn't know where else to express this. But like when i'm writing a comment, just my preference, if you like IT, that's fine.

Don't do any A I I need to think about what i'm writing when I type slash lash. Do not suggest what I am trying to say. I have something good, bad that i've trying to say that's very specific to me in my team like and what IT usually tries to do is just kind of explain what what's going on in the code.

And that's like my least favorite kind of comment. Usually my comment is this needs to be here for X, Y, N, Z external reasons that you'd have no idea why or whatever. Usually my code comment aren't like the following code is is loops and loops over the persons object and adds the address field to the and like I could see that, you .

know.

I hate codes like that that just explain light of code.

No, I mean, a lot of times my code comment to like a chrome version one twenty five through one twenty eight, support the C S S property in its weird but they, but other ones don't you know.

sorry, yeah yeah you .

know so it's all this like I i've been doing a deep dive on like A C S S anchor positioning and poy fields and all this working in that world. You know, pop over and think your position poly filling.

Wow.

diminute her cool. I wish there was no cuts, but IT is pretty interesting. So like especially in a web component world where it's like the anchor name doesn't introvert the shadow shadow roots like now your styles can exist in they have to be added to .

the like document or whatever you know. Oh well i'm .

not sure I totally fyles to get the anchor to work or you can like adopt the style sheet in the parents, whatever, like make one with the ideas all lipped up. You can do that um but then there's this added twist where the Polly fill you have to do all that work before the poll yvo runs, you know and so now you have to like, okay, cool, you have to get this .

to work and it's like a department inside the web component to anchor to something outside of IT is at the situation .

yeah like if you if you want to put all my inker styles side, the web component IT doesn't know its lost reference to the anchor like to say we are my anchor .

in took because I ve never heard .

of my yeah so this less red but just put IT all in the style tag and if you're using position area, everything works great yeah which was formally called inside area and crime one twenty five, one two eight so you need that supports thing and then you need to variables all your position ers whatever will figure out in there um we do um and then you do like this um but but yeah getting IT all to work in other browsers and steff too was kind of tRicky. Been kind of kind of a fascinating sort .

of yeah because it's not only it's really only in grown writing proposition yeah .

generally yes to the Albert or odd the Albert on the shoes od bird Polly film isn't like really good and and my coworkers actually committed some code against IT. So till like so that we could just apply IT to a specific government, not like just like all over, you know, like we could like.

please and less people making polypill ls these days because stuff moves so fast. Like, why would I write a poly fill this gonna done? And like, I I know if there's .

um yeah it's like it's funny to like think all this time and and you like I know it's going to come out and so FTP like this can show up the day I merge merge going to show up and then when you said, yeah i'm sure probably .

no way to think so because of people whatever people have old ipads with locked versions that they keep for ten years you know, we will .

send I released the APP called man dingo a little being. Go up for like real life boring things. It's fun as cute. I like building IT had fun. And then like first thing did the first five minutes i'm on an iphone x that's version locked at IOS sixteen point seven and this doesn't work IT would be a pity. It's a big pity that that does isn't univerSally inclusive or something. And I just was like, well, like down, no, I I, I, I fixed some of IT and so like there was ccs nesting and like my a use of like tone js for like audio wasn't working. But I just kind of no, no, this whole thing where you kind of gill trip somebody end of implementing a thing for you is not my favorite cup of tea, yes.

but they used your gypt night, right? They like inclusively your accessibility, whatever they're trying to use, the .

manipulative, it's gross, it's disgusting and at work. But no, but can what I had to do mentally, he would be like, this is purely a technical discussion, like they their device is vender locked at a certain browser version. H like, can I accommodate? IT sure.

Should I? Okay, fine, I will, you know, yeah, but it's just kind of this like you don't need to pile on extra guilt when IT can just be a technical conversation. You know like like this element needs the area role blaw on IT that can just be a statement you know like you don't need to be like cause you hate blind people, you know you don't need to add that in there. Like just say what the minimum that you need to get IT done, you know, I mean, so like i'm grey.

i'm going to get there. I was with anchors. Do you are the custom idens committed when you give an anchor name who give something an anchor named? Do you do like dash, dash, my anchor or whatever, right? That's always that's been funny and not funny.

It's just I can see IT confusing people even though IT that really probably shouldn't esn need to or whatever that IT looks like a custom property any time you see dash dash. It's been a lot of years now in all of our brains. We go that's a custom property or need.

But lately, more and more stuff has been coming out that uses that dash dash syntax. But that does not it's not a custom property. IT just means i'm inventing a name for something.

And I like IT, I think is a good .

um enough. I the confusion is the right word then, but I came up for me just this week. I was so if the anchor name you you might do IT or do .

you have to do IT? Uh, so you here right now as today, you have to so you have to have to say on the button you say anchor name equals dash my button and then on the pop over thing you say, position inker calling dash ash my button. And so that's what connects them together.

That's what connects the two. You have to use the dash ash thing because it's thing in css that's not a custom property called the custom identity. Ah right is at the right terminology.

yes. And so there is A A proposal and I think it's got going through via tea pack. Recent tea pack stuff is um to add an anchor attribute on an element so you could say, button, I be my button and then on your pop over you say, you know a dive pop over anchor equals my button so you make the you make the anchor reference there. L in the H T M L yeah. And so you style you would to say, like position area on the dif power or whatever you want to do um and in something like there's this also of this anchor thing where you say an anchor function and C S S on if you see it's .

kind weird but is at the tries and tax .

or whatever liver, there's a try in tax and there's you to be try options but now to try fallbacks I think but the but the um like you have an anchor function like anchor parents assy dash dash my button comma left and i'll anchor to the left of the button or to the button's left sorry so you anchor to the button left so but with this new anchor attribute that become anchor left, which is kind of cool some anyway where getting close, I think, to being able to declarative vely add a pop up and attach IT somewhere so they be cool yeah but not quite there. yeah.

I feel like I am, you know, tapping my fingers on this little bit and how that I I almost just watch IT thought I have a bunch of production stuff that I needed for. So I do if I check myself sometimes, but I do feel like that emotion comes up to me. Sometimes are like, okay, we have pop power s so where's anchor?

Traditionally, plus pop poverty, peppers are useless without positioning. I almost, you know, actually stopped myself from thinking that. But I do think they are super tight, the hip, and it's super dumb that you can anchor a pop over yet like you know like like anchor should have drop first almost.

yeah. Now I think it's the harder problem, but I think it's only the harder .

problem because not of the subway of top layer and we just use IT all the time now right.

right. pretty. I'm looking at like a this riverside U I there's one, two, three, four pop lovers on the bottom.

There's one that's a dialect, one, two pop vers a two tip in the top and then there and they're anchored. So like but so it's like a very useful web platform feature. We're just not there, you know. So yeah.

okay, I take you back. We do need this .

immediately. I yeah, hopefully IT makes waiting eagerly and interact to one, two, five. But but when I was .

looking at a custom idst that I didn't, I forget, ss, I just didn't realize this was the thing I didn't, because I wrote a whole blog post way to get around IT and then needed IT. Okay, but I know i've jumped ahead too far, you know, score driven animations. Now, instead of giving a duration to an animation, you can say the timeline for that animation is this, like expression of of scrolling, essentially.

And IT can be based on how far an element is score that can be, that's what's called a score time line. Or IT can be a view time line, which is that elements like experience in the viewpoint is that has IT just arrived in. The viewpoint is IT leaving the viewport in with percentages.

In all these controllable stuff, there are two different types of school urban animations. One is just, you know, basically zero to one hundred percent. How far is gold? And the other one has to do with it's visibility in the viewpoint.

Currently, they're both quite useful. The view ones are almost cooler though IT seems like more new fangled in a way that scroll time lies, so is easier to write in javascript and whatever. But the view ones are really cool. But notably, both of them can have a custom item done them.

And I didn't really know that you don't have to do that because a lot of times you're just adding an animation to itself like, oh, you want image to fly in, then put an anam of view scroll animation on IT and have IT adjust its whatever translate x property to fly in from the left when IT comes into view. That's very straightforward and has nothing to do with a custom island. But the reason you would give a scholl timely or a view time when a custom identity, because you want some other element to react to its scrolling or position in the viewpoint or something isn't that interesting. You can have some totally other element react to the scrolling of a different element, a totally unrelated element.

Yeah.

really pretty interesting. And that happened to me because i'm trying to do something really simple. So imagine you section, section, section, section, section down a blog and their it's like a landing page or something.

You can imagine that you'd want us a view scroll over an animation. Aren't each one of those sections like when this section is visible? I want you doing some special stuff.

This really simple idea that when you're scrolling one of these sections and when it's the active section, there's a poll quote that were related to that, that section that becomes visible, maybe IT scales up or something. But then then when that section has gone, it's done in some other section takes over. Well, now you have this problem because what you the animation needs to be on the pool quote, but the section is the thing that screw wing.

There's like a disconnect between the the elements. And I was like, well, here's how you do IT. You make custom properties and you just slap custom properties on the section.

Those are the things that you animate. And then all the children of itself can just use those custom properties for what he needs to do. Now that's a valid and works.

But I had miss this, and bramah pointed that out to me, is like this girl, urban animations master, if you can just name the name the animation or a named the timeline, and then other elements can use IT. Now they do have to be children, which I found a little unfortunate. Your anchor stuff is not like that. Anchors can just be wherever.

Can't they? Anchors can be wherever. Yeah, yeah. Yes, I can. Like, it's kind of like I could chuck all my tool tips at the bottom of the page like footnotes and then I could .

increase up to the .

wherever yeah there's no connection.

There is a connection in the view timely stuff if you're going to use a named scroller view timely IT needs to be looking up the damn in finding IT. I don't know why. Immediately, when I learned to this, I put two different elements on the page, one scroll and one was just sitting there.

And I I wanted to just like have the, you know, animate a number of spinner something. But I didn't work. But I realized, because they're siblings, so their siblings will never work. I don't know about never. I say never, but seems unlikely they .

ve got to be so a the child can use the animation of a parent, parent, but IT kind of, but I can independently, like you can. Yeah, yeah, yeah. up. I don't even know if there .

can be multiple. Maybe I didn't dig that deep into you, but i'd like the idea of naming and and then that idea of customer dense was in there because you have to use the dash dash name thing to give IT, and you have to declare which direction .

this growing use and makes me think container should use. The dash, dash.

I yeah maybe because right now you do container name and then you just make up whatever as a name. Why didn't they use customer dance?

Don't know if I didn't exit, may be um interesting don't or I one derful .

IT has like a special .

meaning denim thinking because I think of IT is like a fancy variable name or like a you know like .

that doesn't do anything special, doesn't warn you if you accidentally reuse IT yeah .

let you in a new way no well thanks.

It's interesting.

I need to for a work thing have to present on like kind of new single C S S stuff you know um so I kind of have this like i'll probably get a lot of your talk. But I think also just this kind of like here's something you can use and IT like we'll make a huge difference in how you're doing. You know how you're like you coding like to do like when is low? You I scroll you eyes where every piramal float in and flies in like way less code stupid not you know yeah you just doing a little bit of spring really .

is the the the syntax for that is pretty chill yeah kind of the fans.

So I think that just changes out, changes a whole lot of what we can do easily .

know you can do you know how container queries. Here's this niche syntax though be way Better in video. But we're going a mouth blog. Get the C. S. S. Nesting exists now.

So, but not on so far is sixteen point, but good.

Oh yeah, cava, the world do you live in now, if you know, and if yourself you're not processing IT and OK, let's not get into IT CS s nesting. You can write on an element, you know at the top level of this nesting is a container and then say, like, want to know whatever dave's components slash in line size and now you have a container.

Now you can start anything that a child of that container, crucially, you cannot use a container curry on that very same element. Everybody knows that. I hope that little dutch with container queries, but with CS s nesting, you can just write a container space and then like whatever with is greater than four hundred pixels or something within IT, you don't even need the container name or anything.

It's just like an anonymous container kind of. And because of the C S, S, nesting is just like implies, uh, you're talking about this element like a media you know how media inquiries are the same as the media query inside of IT and that's fine for whatever reason. And yeah, I think that's nice.

Where was I going with that? I don't know. I can't remember. It's just I like the idea of like anonymous names like that.

That's what you don't name of view timeline or scroll type line. It's the same kind of theory. It's just it's it's anonyme.

So that's where I was going with that is like I don't think key frames work that way in SaaS. You'd see that people would write a key frame way nested in because it's like relevant to that component. But I didn't do anything.

I just baLanced all the way out. You still have to name the key frame and all that. I wonder if you could, with a scroll or view title, if you could write an anonymous key frames animation that just doesn't even have a name. But the implication is that I just automatically applies to that information. Probably not, uh, feel like .

need a name but .

this is a name. I can need a name but it's like I don't others of punch other features that don't need names.

So why is you can also just point IT out like that key frames and be like it's just a Normal animation but you're doing a score you know it's like score driven africa with the syntaxes.

But yeah that would just mean that in in the animation property when you call that, you just leave the name off of be like, oh, inherit the key firms that are within here that .

seems highly unlikely .

to end with one really unusual one way. We have no expertise in IT from our old pal simi declare from Sunny cape town. What's up with java and your intent? Why is or was it's so successful? Would you consider java successful today as a language?

Um I would .

I would too.

It's huge. I mean, it's huge. I think everyone you jobs big deal was IT was a kind of IT was object oriented, project oriented .

you know in in a very .

modern syntex. You have to kind of flash back to the late nineties here, like everyone's kind of like right a bunch of c plus plus or perl or .

you know still around.

but like java shows up and it's like you just installed in the java run time and in blamer, we n new java build a jar. We do that you know yeah ah I think you know I think that has the same fingerprints as in P M, you know is kind of this right once run everywhere thing but but just um but this idea like you could just grab a little code packages, not quite packages, but like like talking about the beans or something.

not just based on the the popularity of the language style. Like I got popular, so people made stuff for IT.

I think I got popular. Some people made stuff for IT. So then people said, all this is the best .

one because the most stuff a little and then.

yeah so that's why I say it's like N P, M is just like I had modules basically that people could pull in and buy you like they had a whole enterprise ARM. We could buy stuff you. And I think as today, there's a bunch of software in java, people still right java and love IT and you yeah I .

think it's still really well. Like to some degree, i'm stated some world stupid. It's just so big that I just win. But you don't hear of like hot new hot new web development tools are aten in job y things. If you're all web all the time, don't think you see you very much.

No, yeah yeah. Job worlds different. You have to like download a tomcat from a guy named tom in the company who hasn't working, and you copy his tomcat into your your jet brains. And then IT works yeah but only tomes. Not not everyone.

Anyone else is crucial isn't I mean, the big what seems like to me the big thing is that android, if you're gona write a native android APP and do IT just .

as bare metal as you can, it's ja java. yeah. And so I mean, there's been other like cotton, you know, which is sort of like android swift, you know, like in apple land you can write objective sea, but you're going to have a Better time writing swift, I think.

And then so I think that kind of the ideas, like there's kind of more modern languages that are going to feel Better and make more sense. And 不得不 key thing about job is like everything's an object。 It's like really strict um kind of about that. I feel like if you .

didn't know this, that has absolutely nothing whatsoever ver to do with java script t just a bad just a bad .

name on javascript about the same time and there and you could use javascript, load a java maybe that was just an object tag that you could like i'm thinking of like the picture with the shimmery lake underneath. You know.

it's why I dropped out of being a computer management, computer systems person at. But as soon as we got java classes, I mean, literally like classroom classes, I was A I just hated IT. And just once that the time, maybe I wlink know, maybe I bet if I could have a class.

Now i'd probably enjoy myself just because I like learning. Interesting that I have no big connection to, or something I probably would. But for whatever reason, at that time in my life, I was just like, I hate this.

I know a couple of other languages. I like them. Okay, why do I have to learn this one? And really complicated, but doesn't work good on my mac.

That probably was a big part of IT. Yeah, no, I was just like, screw, i'm out. I literally quit.

S yeah, my computer science to promise computer science for one year. University texas at Austin, before changing to becoming a japanese major. I learn pascal. I was my favorite dude.

I loved IT. I think I .

was so clean. It's okay. It's not great and then learned hassle, which is all cool nerds love that. Now I learned scheme which is also like a lisp variant um and then I quit and then the whole departments like we're teaching java first year now and I was like two I was stayed in if that was the case, like me I got you. I just like because I was like to i'm not going to spend my life writing past coal, you know I mean.

like yeah I like the index. You can clearly tell IT wasn't there's not a lot of people make them money right now.

It's like Green main frame screens. I'm not gona do that. Do like I need to make money and deals right down the street.

And so I was just like clearly jobs, the right pic rate. So but they didn't do that. So anyway, oh, oh.

well, right well, thanks for the questions. Everybody really useful. thanks.

Yeah thanks you and I .

we super late, but probably several weeks.

Yeah, we appreciate you. Um be sure to shut this up and you patera choice as how people find out about the show was on. We're doing master on but blue guys got the legs right now um and it's it's holding the K R stone that's fine um and then but we're not on that one. But then ah you can do in this over in the disco patron outcomes shoptalk show think galu supporters through there in crist you anything else if .

you like to say again.