Happy holidays, everyone. As we wrap up the year, we're taking a short break to rest and reflect.
This year has brought a lot of changes for the team here at Serial Killers. We've covered stories of killers who have yet to be caught, and we tried new angles like our specials on manhunts and hitmen. Thanks for sticking with us through it all and letting us bring you the stories we find the most fascinating every week. For the next two weeks, we're highlighting a favorite episode from this year, the story of the Buried Bodies Killer.
Thank you so much for tuning in during 2023, and we'll see you in 2024. Stay safe out there.
Due to the nature of this killer's crimes, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of murder, physical abuse, rape, and the sexual assault of children, adults, and animals. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. To get help on mental health and sexual abuse, visit spotify.com slash resources.
On a warm night in early November 1961, 25-year-old Robert Garrow breezed down the streets of Albany, New York. He had no particular destination in mind. He was just happy to be out of the house. Not that he was trying to escape his home life. He liked spending time with his wife Edith and their two children. Things were just fine. Still, he'd been consumed by a restless, tense energy all day.
He knew something was simmering inside him, but he wasn't exactly sure what it meant. And then he saw them. Two teenagers, lounging on the steps of a nearby office building. The boy was tall, broad-shouldered, and wore a letterman jacket. The girl was petite and pretty. She looked up at the boy like he was her entire world. A quarterback and a cheerleader, Garrow decided, his lip curling with contempt.
the kind of people who made his life miserable as a boy. He kept walking, trying to put them out of his mind. It felt like the couple was taunting him, reminding him of everything he'd missed out on in high school. By the time he got home, Garrow was so enraged he could barely see straight. Edith and the kids were in bed, but he knew he wouldn't sleep, not until he did what had to be done. He was going to make them pay.
Hi, I'm Greg Polson. This is Serial Killers, a Spotify original from Parcast. Every episode, we dive into the minds and madness of serial killers. Today, we're discussing the crimes of Robert Garrow, the buried bodies killer. I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Richardson. Hi, everyone. You can find episodes of Serial Killers and all other Spotify originals from Parcast for free on Spotify.
Today, we'll discuss how Garrow's abusive childhood may have given rise to twisted sexual appetites. We'll also explore the picture-perfect suburban life he constructed to hide his violence. Later, we'll dig into a vicious series of murders in the Adirondack Mountains and Garrow's years-long run from the law. We've got all that and more coming up. Stay with us.
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- Hello there, I'm Mike Flanagan, and welcome to Spectre Vision Radio's production of "Director's Commentary." "Director's Commentary" is a deep dive into a film through the eyes of the filmmaker or filmmakers who made it. It combines an in-depth interview format with a classic "Director's Commentary" track, the likes of which used to be common on physical media releases, but sadly are becoming more and more rare these days. Filmmakers talking about film with filmmakers for people who love film.
and filmmakers. Hi there, Carter Roy here. If you're interested in true crime, especially unsolved murders, serial killers, and cold cases, you'll love my brand new show, Murder True Crime Stories. Each episode covers a notorious murder or murders with a special focus on those who were impacted the most. We'll always leave with the knowledge of why these stories need to be heard.
You can listen to murder true crime stories wherever you get your podcasts. Many murderers are motivated by a twisted desire to reclaim control. Criminologists call them power control oriented killers, those who find pleasure in dominating their victims. This drive for power can come from many different places, but it's often rooted in a chaotic childhood. This may have been the case for Robert Garrow.
He was born and raised in the small rural town of Mineville in upstate New York. The second of six children, he came into the world in March 1936, at a time of immense uncertainty for most Americans.
Seven years into the Great Depression, jobs were scarce. Robert Garrow Sr. had once been a farmer, but after the economic downturn, he'd been forced to work in the local iron mines instead. Though it was dangerous work, the fact that Robert had a full-time job meant his family was better off than most. Still, with six children, they barely made ends meet.
Garrow grew up in a chaotic household. One of his brothers, Homer, died as an infant. His father drank heavily to cope with his grueling work hours and took his frustrations out on his children. According to researcher Mark Gatto, Garrow's mother, Mary, was also abusive and cruel towards her children. But for unknown reasons, she saved the worst of her wrath for young Robert. While Garrow was still a boy, she reportedly beat him with crowbars, bricks, and heavy stovewood.
Once, his sister Florence claimed their mother hit Garrow so hard he was knocked unconscious. Florence thought he was dead. With trembling hands, she threw a jug of cold water over her brother and felt deep relief when he jolted awake. Vanessa's going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode. Please note, Vanessa's not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but we have done a lot of research for this show. Thanks, Greg.
Brain injuries during childhood can potentially have long-term consequences. A 2016 study led by researchers at the University of Oxford found an increased risk of mental illness and poor academic outcomes for affected individuals.
The risks are especially severe when the injury occurs during abuse. Even without head trauma, early neglect can alter how the brain develops. These changes vary wildly from one individual to the next, but some become hypervigilant, highly anxious, and suspicious of others. Whatever physical consequences the head trauma might have had on Garo, the repeated abuse from his parents certainly had lifelong psychological consequences.
He grew up without any trusted adults to support him, so it's no surprise that he became increasingly unruly as he aged. It's not clear exactly what Garrow did as a child, but in his book, Sworn to Silence, investigative journalist Jim Tracy says he was incorrigible. But by the time he was seven, his parents had enough. In 1943, they sent Garrow away to work on a nearby farm, owned by a couple called the Maholics.
As far as Robert and Mary were concerned, this was a win-win. The manual labor would knock some sense into their son, and the money he earned would be sent home to them. But for Garrow, it made a bad situation much worse. Without his siblings, he was more isolated than ever on the farm. He was left to his own devices, often toiling for hours out in the fields alone. It was backbreaking and lonely work, especially for a child.
But there was a bright spot. During this time, Garrow started attending school. It was an opportunity to meet new people and form friendships that could last a lifetime. Unfortunately, things didn't go to plan. Try as he may, Garrow was painfully incapable of making friends. Sensing weakness, the other kids started picking on him for smelling like a farm. For a while, he endured the taunts, trying to avoid making eye contact with anyone.
But soon, he realized something. Working on the farm made him smell bad, but it also made him strong, much more so than the other kids. The next time one of his peers taunted him, Garrow lashed out, threatening to beat the bully up. After that, he started wearing overalls to school without a shirt, deliberately showing off his muscles. Soon enough, the kids stopped picking on him.
Still, his social standing didn't improve. Garrow spent his spare time alone on the farm, with only livestock for companions. When he was only 10 or 11 years old, he started having sexual contact with the farm animals. Since no one ever watched him, the adults had no idea.
Garrow was left in what's known as unsupervised self-care. According to a 2016 study at the University of California, Davis, this can increase the risk of childhood conduct problems like bullying, stealing, and lying. Garrow later said he knew what he was doing was wrong, but at the time, it helped him cope with his loneliness. His time on the farm continued until the spring of 1952. At age 16, Garrow returned to his family home.
He wasn't happy to be back. It all came to a head one morning when his younger sister, Agnes, tried cheering him up by making muffins for the family. Excited for the treat, the kids went outside and picked berries. Since there was no flour in the house, Garrow asked to borrow some from a neighbor, but his mother flatly refused. She didn't want her children asking for handouts.
Garrow was furious. Being denied the muffins felt like an encapsulation of all the abuse and neglect he'd experienced over the years. And now, he'd finally had enough. He went to the town justice and told the man that his parents weren't feeding him properly. In turn, the authorities told Robert about his son's allegation. He returned home that evening and violently beat Garrow, accusing him of destroying the family's reputation.
But after years of abuse, Garrow was prepared. After countless hours of hard labor, he was more than a match for his abusive father, whose work in the mines had taken a physical toll. The beating devolved into a fistfight. During the altercation, Garrow landed a hard punch on his father's jaw, drawing blood. Stunned and fuming, his father summoned the authorities and turned him over to the sheriff's department.
The next day, Garrow appeared before a judge, who sentenced him to 13 months at a reform school in the city of Rochester, more than 250 miles away. The State Industrial School was the oldest state reformatory in America. It promised to transform deviant miners into productive and responsible young citizens. If the state couldn't set Garrow on the straight and narrow, nobody could. Robert Garrow spent his 17th birthday at reform school,
There's little information available about his time there, but given the institution's strict rules, it probably wasn't much of a celebration. Still, as far as we know, Garrow completed his 13-month sentence without incident. In April, he was released into the custody of his older sister, Florence. The two of them had always gotten along. For now, Garrow felt determined to make something of himself and leave his troubled youth behind.
He joined the Air Force, perhaps seeking the same structure and rigid rules he'd found at the reform school. But he didn't fit in there either. Garrow had a persistent issue with bedwetting, which was impossible to hide in such close quarters. Unsurprisingly, his fellow soldiers mocked him relentlessly. No matter what, he was still an outcast, and the isolation spurred him back to violence. Garrow got in trouble often in the military, but the reasons are inconsistent.
According to author Jim Tracy, in late 1954, while stationed at an Air Force base in Florida, officials gave the 18-year-old a court martial for fighting. He spent 20 days in military prison before returning to duty.
Another report paints a more dramatic picture of Garrow's record in Florida. It claims he was caught stealing money from an Air Force sergeant and sentenced to six months in military prison. Somehow, though, he escaped custody and spent several days on the run. When he was finally caught, he was charged with escape on top of petty larceny and was sentenced to a full year in military prison.
In 1955, the Air Force discharged Garrow at 19 years old. It was a fitting end to Garrow's two years of service, most of which he'd spent behind bars. But all that time locked up hadn't done anything to quell his appetite for trouble. Garrow moved to Albany, where he lived with his sister Florence. Over the next year, he tried putting life together at a series of short-term jobs.
In April of 1956, just weeks after his 20th birthday, Garrow was fired from his latest gig in the kitchen of a restaurant. The reasons are unclear, but he was told he wouldn't be receiving his final paycheck. Incensed, Garrow broke into the restaurant in the middle of the night, tore the place apart, and tried opening the safe to get his money. He must have tripped and alarmed, though, because he was caught, arrested, and charged with burglary as well as attempted larceny.
And while awaiting trial, a psychiatrist named Dr. Walter Osinski examined Garrow and noted his history of bedwetting and head injuries. Dr. Osinski concluded that Garrow was callous, shallow, and lacked empathy. He also reportedly diagnosed Garrow with several personality disorders, but the specifics are unclear.
Narcissistic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and antisocial personality disorder can all feature low empathy. The latter seems to fit most readily with Garrow's history. It causes a lack of concern for other people's rights and feelings, a disregard for social norms, and difficulty learning from one's past mistakes. In the end, Garrow was given a suspended sentence and promptly skipped town once he was free on probation.
He spent the next few months bouncing around upstate New York doing manual labor. At 21, he had no direction, no ambitions, and few prospects. Perhaps most importantly, he was lonely. He never really built a lasting connection to anyone besides his sisters. He was determined to change that.
In the summer of 1956, while he was working on a farm near the small village of Lowville, he attended a local dance. That's where he met 18-year-old Edith, who'd graduated from high school that summer. The details of their courtship are mysterious. Given his troubled past and lack of social graces, we have no idea what Edith saw in Garrow. Perhaps by this point, he'd begun to mask his true self, hiding his insecurity behind bravado.
If that's true, it clearly worked, because the couple married in June 1957, almost a year after meeting. Over the next couple of years, the pair built a life together. They had two children, Robert Jr. and Michelle, before moving back to Albany. For a while, it seemed becoming a family man had helped Garrow change his ways. He never missed a hearing, and the judge was so impressed by his record that he released Garrow from probation altogether.
He stayed on the straight and narrow for several years, at least according to the official record. Then in the spring of 1960, three years after meeting Edith, he slipped back into old habits. Police arrested him for stealing hundreds of dollars worth of electrical equipment from the Albany Department of Health. He was given another suspended sentence for this crime. But stealing money and valuables wasn't enough for Garrow. His impulses became darker and more twisted.
It's hard to know exactly what drove this turn. Perhaps now that he was raising children, the trauma of his upbringing resurfaced. Details regarding this next incident are scarce, but here's what we know. At some point in 1961, Garrow attacked two young girls, aged 10 and 11.
Threatening them with a pellet gun and a knife, the 25-year-old forced the girls into a secluded area where he raped them. After attacking the girls, Garrow let them go. He then returned home as calm as could be. As far as his wife and young children could see, nothing out of the ordinary had happened. While the attack was ultimately reported, no one linked it back to Garrow. That meant he likely felt safe enough to do it again.
It's worth remembering Garrow's earliest sexual experience involved bestiality, meaning the sexual abuse of animals. Some research suggests a link between bestiality and sexual violence against people. Since animals are, by definition, unable to consent to sexual acts, this behavior could lay the groundwork for sexual assault. As darkness fell on the night of November 3rd, 1961, Edith was preparing dinner for the family.
After they finished eating, Garrow told his wife he was going out for an evening stroll. While walking through the quiet streets of central Albany, he spotted a teenage couple huddled together on the steps of an office building. The boy was 18-year-old John. The 16-year-old girl's name is unavailable, but we'll call her Elizabeth. Something about John and Elizabeth captured Garrow's attention. He walked past them initially, but he couldn't get them out of his mind.
Perhaps they represented the idyllic version of American teenage life Garrow felt he'd been deprived of. He'd missed many years of school, and when he had attended, he'd been an outcast. And of course, he'd never dated as a teenager. It's possible John and Elizabeth somehow stoked old resentments in him.
Whatever the reason, Garrow ran home, fetched a pellet gun, and returned to the office building where he'd seen the couple. At first, he panicked, thinking they'd left. But then, he caught them emerging from a doorway of a nearby restaurant. As John and Elizabeth turned a corner off the main street, Garrow rushed towards them and brandished his weapon. In the darkness, they couldn't tell it was just a pellet gun. Terrified, they had no choice but to obey when Garrow ordered them to walk with him.
He forced the couple towards a deserted wooded area where he knew there'd be no witnesses. He knocked John unconscious, tied Elizabeth up, and raped her. Afterward, he let the couple go, but warned them that if they went to the police, he would find them and kill them.
It's hard to understand why Garrow did this. He wore no face covering, making himself easy to identify. That night, he returned to his family, slipping back into the role of an ordinary suburban husband. He believed his warning would be enough to keep his victims quiet. He was wrong. John and Elizabeth went straight to the police, and within hours, a detailed description of their attacker was circulated to every officer in the area.
The next day, a cop spotted Garrow on a street about a mile from the spot where John and Elizabeth were attacked. As the officer tried restraining Garrow, he broke free and sprinted away. The policeman was right behind him, calling for backup as he ran. Before long, a dramatic foot chase broke out on the quiet streets of Albany. As Garrow fled, the police fired multiple warning shots into the air. Meanwhile, startled residents watched the action from their windows.
The authorities chased him for blocks before finally cornering him in a junkyard. As Garrow tried desperately to scale a fence, they dragged him to the ground and took him into custody. Initially, Garrow denied everything, but soon he realized how much trouble he was in.
Another recent crime had come to light. He knew that if he went down for the sexual assault of the 10 and 11-year-old girls, he'd be considered the lowest of the low. Being a convicted child molester would put him in constant danger from his fellow inmates. So, Garrow struck a deal. He agreed to plead guilty to first-degree rape for the attack on Elizabeth in exchange for the other charges being dropped.
In November of 1961, a judge sentenced 25-year-old Robert Garrow to 10 to 20 years in prison. He was shipped off to the Clinton Correctional Facility, a maximum security facility often known by its nickname, "Little Siberia." As grim as things looked, Garrow had a plan. He wanted to improve himself. Not to become a better person, mind you, but a better criminal.
In the final weeks of 1961, 25-year-old Robert Garrow began serving his sentence at a maximum security prison in upstate New York. He soon established himself as a model prisoner. Early on, he asked for information on correspondence courses and signed up for as many as possible.
Garrow studied everything from mechanics to earth science to theology, enjoying the latter so much that he ultimately earned a minister's license. He was polite and cooperative to the guards and never caused trouble. Edith and the children stood by him and often visited, which further supported his image as a reformed man. But privately, Garrow was anything but.
He complained to a fellow inmate that he was only behind bars because he'd left his victims alive. He said he wouldn't make that mistake again. But as far as the prison authorities were concerned, he had an impeccable record. Thanks to his good behavior, Garrow served less than seven years, getting his freedom back in August 1968. At age 32, he was once again a free man.
Seeking a fresh start, Garrow and Edith moved to Syracuse, 150 miles west, and settled into a comfortable suburban neighborhood. Garrow used his new qualifications to find work as a mechanic. By now, he'd learned to keep his head down and stay out of trouble. His new employer was impressed by his work ethic. But some of his coworkers found him strange. Garrow was a loner, never socializing after his shift.
The few people who did get to know Garrow described him as a conservative man who never swore. To some, he seemed like a square. They had no idea how dark his past was or what he could do. It was all an act. One night in 1968, after an argument with Edith, Garrow stormed out of the house and went searching for his next victim.
The details of this incident aren't available, but we know Garrow raped a woman that night. Afterward, he let her go. We don't know if this victim reported the incident to the police, but Garrow didn't face any repercussions. He was establishing a dangerous pattern. By day, he was a model citizen, a family man, and a reliable neighbor. On the weekends, he loved going on fishing trips with his son and taking his daughter to swim at the park.
But at night, that same park became a crime scene. Garrow raped at least three more women over the next five years. Because he always let his victims go, they invariably went to the police, and the attacks ended up in the local newspaper. On more than one occasion, Edith showed him one of the stories and pointed out that the attacker's description sounded like him. It's unclear if Edith was suspicious of her husband or in complete denial.
She knew of his criminal history and must have noticed he was often gone at night. Either way, she never spoke up, and the police never had Garrow on their radar. As far as his parole officer was concerned, he was completely rehabilitated. He never missed a meeting or a day's work.
According to those who knew the Garrows well, the couple seemed impossibly happy. In 1972, his now teenage daughter Michelle started dating a classmate named Steve, who recalled how wholesome her family was. He told journalist Jim Tracy, "They were like the family in the television show Happy Days." And I'm not kidding. Everyone thought that.
Garrow is far from the only criminal to successfully lead a double life. In some cases, this "Jekyll and Hyde" kind of personality seems to come down to an ability to compartmentalize. It's a common defense mechanism which describes an ability to mentally separate thoughts, emotions, or experiences that conflict with each other. For example, if you're heading to work right after arguing with your partner, you may need to temporarily compartmentalize your emotions to focus on the day ahead.
When taken to an extreme, compartmentalization can be used to avoid dealing with trauma, or in Garrow's case, to avoid taking responsibility for his actions. Garrow kept his true self concealed for years, thanks to a squeaky clean, wholesome facade. But the mask couldn't stay in place forever. Four years after his release from prison, when he was 36, it began to slip again.
The downward spiral started in the summer of 1972. As he drove home from a fishing trip, Garrow ran a stop sign and collided with another car. During the crash, Garrow hit his head. The injury seemed minor, and he refused medical treatment. But in the weeks afterward, he started experiencing headaches. It's unknown if he experienced any psychological disturbances along with the headaches, but based on what happened next, Garrow's mental state was in decline.
On the night of November 11th, 1972, Robert Garrow climbed into his car and went searching for victims. Around 11:30 p.m. near Syracuse University, he saw two students, a black man and a white woman, standing on the side of the street. The couple held their thumbs out, looking for a ride home from a bar.
He pulled over and smiled amiably at Lenny Garner and Karen Lutz. The pair knew hitchhiking could be dangerous, but Garrow didn't raise any red flags. He looked like a friendly suburban dad. So they hopped into his car. Garrow drove for a while, giving them time to get comfortable, before pulling into an empty parking lot near campus. Then he drew a gun. He ordered Karen to tie Lenny up, but she deliberately left slack in the knots.
Kara then tied Karen up himself. Seemingly at a high from his victory, he began rambling incessantly. He told Lenny and Karen about his violent past and how he'd been fooling everyone for years. It was like a movie. As he was monologuing, they both quietly loosened their bindings. He talked for so long that Karen and Lenny were able to free themselves. They kept their arms behind their backs, waiting for an opportunity to escape.
Finally, Garrow revealed his plans to them. He said he would drive them to a secluded wooded area nearby. Someplace more private. Lenny and Karen exchanged a glance. There was no way they were letting him drive them anywhere. It was now or never. They leapt forward and attacked Garrow together. The two of them beat Garrow as hard as they could from the back seat. He barely defended himself, and Karen realized the man's gun was probably a fake.
It may have even been the same pellet gun he'd used in the past, though we don't know that for sure. After subduing Garrow, Karen and Lenny threw the car doors open and fled. As they ran, they memorized his license plate number. The couple sprinted straight to the police, who traced the license number to Garrow's address in minutes. By midnight, they were at his front door, where they arrested him for unlawful imprisonment.
Remarkably, despite Lenny and Karen's testimony, Garrow insisted he was innocent. He complained to his parole officer that the local police targeted him because he was an ex-convict. To back up his claim, Garrow hired a lawyer, Frank Armani, who worked hard on his client's behalf.
He visited Karen and Lenny separately and pressured them to drop the charges. He told them the police found marijuana in Garrow's car and suspected it belonged to the students. If they were convicted of possession, he told them they'd go to prison. As unethical as this was, it unfortunately proved effective. Lenny was already on probation from a recent drug arrest and couldn't afford a second arrest, which would mean expulsion from college.
Armani ultimately convinced the cops, likely due to racial discrimination, that Karen and Lenny were lying to set Garrow up. With two witnesses afraid to speak up, in the end, a city judge dismissed the case.
As he announced his decision, the judge made a point of highlighting Garrow's good qualities. He said, quote, When I see a parole record like this of a man who's truly turned his life around, I have to say by finding him not guilty that I am actually writing a miscarriage of justice against Mr. Garrow. In the eyes of the court, Garrow was beyond reproach. There was nothing to stop him from carrying right on with his spree.
Six months after the attack on Karen and Lenny, in June of 1973, Garrow struck again. This time, he abducted two girls aged 10 and 11 at gunpoint in front of an ice cream shop. He sexually assaulted them in a wooded area nearby. Once again, his victims told the police everything and said they could identify their attacker. Now that he was already on the cops' radar, Garrow couldn't talk his way out of the charge.
Officers arrested him on June 2, seven months after his last attack.
His lawyer, Armani, wasted no time swooping in. He reasoned that the girls must have been coached by police because their detailed stories seemed too meticulous. Somehow, almost unbelievably, that argument satisfied authorities, who released Garrow on bail until his court date in six weeks. Despite the trial hanging over his head, Garrow was undeterred. After this latest setback, his words from years earlier rang in his head.
As far as we know, Garrow had never actually killed a person up to this point. Now, he probably thought to himself he was paying the price. After traveling a few blocks, Garrow told Alicia he had to make a detour.
Pulling into an empty parking lot near the university, he whipped out a knife and forced her to walk with him. He led her down a hill away from the university buildings, into a deserted patch of woodland, and raped her. Alicia fought back. While they struggled, Garrow wrapped a length of rope around her neck. After strangling her, he dragged her body onto the grounds of a nearby cemetery and left it there.
Having finally killed for the first time, Garrow must have felt strangely calm, because he went straight home to Edith and took her grocery shopping. Then he drove to his regular appointment with his parole officer as if he didn't have a care in the world. Usually, Garrow's parole officer was on his side, but that day was different. The man angrily told Garrow that the police had seen him lurking outside some local schools.
The revelation that the police had been watching him stunned Garrow. Somehow, despite the pending charges against him, he thought he was above the law. He stormed out of the meeting fuming. But beneath the anger was a sense of panic. Alicia's murder replayed in his mind. If the police were watching him, had they seen him pick her up?
There was only one thing to do. He had to leave Syracuse. He drove straight to a local department store where he bought a rifle, several boxes of ammo, and camping equipment. The next morning, he packed everything into his car before sunrise. He took one long last look back at the house, saying goodbye to the idyllic life he'd built on a foundation of lies.
Then he got into the driver's seat and headed north, towards the Adirondack Mountains. He wanted a fresh start. Out in the wilderness, the rule of law couldn't touch him. He could hunt all he wanted, and nobody could stop him.
Thanks again for tuning in to Serial Killers. We'll be back next time with Part 2, where we'll discuss Garrow's vicious killing spree in the Adirondacks. For more information on Garrow, amongst the many sources we used, we found Jim Tracy's book, Sworn to Silence, The Truth Behind Robert Garrow and the Missing Bodies Case, extremely helpful in our research.
You can find all episodes of Serial Killers and all other Spotify originals from Parcast for free on Spotify. We'll see you next time. Stay safe out there. Serial Killers is a Spotify original from Parcast. Our head of programming is Julian Boirot. Our supervising sound designer is Russell Nash, with Nick Johnson as our head of production, and quality control by Spencer Howard. Stacey Nemec is our supervising editor, and Derek Jennings is our writing lead.
This episode of Serial Killers was written by Emma Dibdin, edited by Robert Tyler Walker and Terrell Wells, fact-checked by Cheyenne Lopez, researched by Brian Petras and Chelsea Wood, produced by Bruce Kitovich, and sound designed by Anthony Valsick. Our hosts are Greg Polson and me, Vanessa Richardson.