The OJ Simpson Trial
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Dogs save everything. They save the world. They know. They know. Dogs should solve crimes. They do. That is true. That is their job.

Welcome back to Write Answers Mostly, a podcast on what you didn't learn in history class but really wanted to. My name is Claire Donald. My name is Tess Palomo. Hi, guys. Welcome. I am so nervous right now. Shaking, quivering. I don't even know what's about to happen. I don't either, Tess. That's the thing.

You guys have been DMing us so much ever since we've gotten some new listeners. Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining. Thank you for following us at right answers, mostly on Instagram and Tik TOK. You guys have reached out to us directly and have been like, please cover the OJ case.

And Claire was the brave enough soul to be like, you know what? I'm going to tackle this. I want to tackle it. Well, I was so excited at first. That's why I was like, can I please do it? Can I please? At first you're like, and now I regret it. Literally. I'm like, and it's consumed me body and soul. I can't believe it bewitched me. You haven't even watched housewives this week. No, I know. I haven't watched crappy late. I like just barely. I know.

But other people are saying it's good. I mean, we can talk about that on Patreon, but I'm truly confused. Okay, okay. We will talk about it. That's my dream for us to do a version of the show, by the way. If anyone's listening, that can get us some connections to film us. Basically the sinful life. Exactly. That's our dream. Please call us. Please call us. But yeah, now I'm so ready to be out of the woods with this because it's all I've been thinking about. I mean, I'm ready for you just so you can like...

have some relief you know as well i know yes and i told tessa i was like usually you know we catch up with how each other's weeks are but like there's no time there's no time there's so much to cover we will catch up on patreon on monday yes follow us in our show notes there's a link to patreon that you can join for two bonus episodes a month for 7.99 and it supports podcasts and we spill tea honey sure do we get down and dirty of course and while you're at it why don't you go

over to Apple Podcasts and rate us a five star. And you can also watch us on YouTube right now. We are filming this. Oh my God. We are scared. Hi. We're scared for it all. But here we go. Here we go. Okay, Tess, what do you know about the OJ trial? I know the Kardashians of it all. I know it caused your riff in the marriage of Kris Jenner and Robert Kardashian. Well, they were divorced, but in their relationship. Oh, that's right. I thought it...

No, but they like were kind of mutual and fine and like having dinners together every week. And then this was like, Oh, okay. Okay. I know that it was tough. Can't imagine what the, what the kids were going through. Um, I know that it was local. I know that it was in Brent,

was. So guys, just to let you know where Tess and I are recording right now, where this crime happened was 10 minutes away. Like literally. Truly. It's very close to my mom's apartment. Which is crazy. I know. Crazy. But I, I mean, I know the, the, the famous line. Yes. About the gloves. Right. Which you said on our Kris Jenner episode, cause we touched on this in our Kris Jenner episode. And when you said that I was taken aback. I, yeah, I don't know like when

I learned a little bit about it, but I don't have much information. I have my general thoughts, but without knowing the details, I am prepared to be sickened to my stomach. Well, yes, everyone prepared. Also, this will be a very graphic episode on some parts, and it's just a triggering episode overall for so many reasons. But you kids asked for it, you little sickos. Yes.

Okay. Well, let's just go then. Okay. Take it away, Claire. Well, first of all, citing my sources you're wrong about, it's just so gorgeous. If you guys like this podcast, you're going to love that podcast. Older sister. Yes. Our smarter, older sister. We love them. I watched the ID doc, OJ trial of century. I read an E online article and you know, our stepfather Wikipedia was there. Of course. He always is. He always is. Whether we like it or not. Of course. Whether we can trust him or not. He's there.

Okay, Tess. The people of the state of California versus Orenthal James Simpson is known as the double murder trial of the century in which O.J. Simpson was tried and acquitted for the murders of his ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson, and her friend, Ronald Goldman.

The trial spanned 11 months from November 9th, 1994 to October 3rd, 1995. I did not know that he killed two people. He did. And I feel so sad for Ronald Goldman's family, obviously. But Ron's dad at one point was like, my son is a footnote in his own murder. Because...

Everything was about OJ. And then, of course, even Nicole, like, people didn't even talk about her enough in this. Okay. And also, I wanted to say, in this episode, I will be saying indictment.

I cannot believe my wrongdoing. I don't think I've ever gotten so many text messages about a word. What did I say again? Indictment? An indictment. You know, we love an indictment. Maybe we're just trying to be immature. Okay. My cousin, who's an attorney, texted me and was like, I'm peeing my pants at you guys. She's like, what is wrong with your friend? There's so many things wrong with both of us. I didn't know as well. So, okay. Indictment. Indictment. Indictment.

I think. We'll see. Oh, ASMR. Okay. So let's talk about LA at this time. Okay. Yeah. Because LA is still reeling in the 90s from the Rodney King LA riots.

Right. So two years or two or three years earlier, Rodney King was a man who led police on a high speed chase through Los Angeles. He later was charged with driving under the influence. But when police finally stopped him, they ordered Rodney King out of the car and then the Los Angeles Police Department officers kicked him repeatedly and beat him with a baton for a reported murder.

15 minutes. Oh my God. And it was all caught on camera. And the graphic video of the attack was broadcast into homes across the nation and worldwide. The video showed that more than a dozen cops just stood by watching and commentating on the beating. King's injuries resulted in skull fractures, broken bones and teeth and permanent brain damage. Oh,

Ultimately, four officers were charged with excessive use of force. And in 1992, a jury, a majority being white people, found the four officers not guilty. Oh, my God. Of causing a black man brain injury from beating him. So...

Nothing happened? There was no consequences? No consequences for them in the slightest. Oh, great. And so then the city goes up in flames. And there were the L.A. riots. Right. And I wish that we could say that was the last time that happened, that that injustice happened. But obviously, we know that's not the case. Yep. So that just kind of tells you where L.A. is as a city. Right.

with the LAPD injustice. Yep. And that really sets the tone. So OJ's indictment reignites racial tensions and polarizes the community all over again. So let's talk about OJ. Who was OJ before this? So he played football at USC. He was a Heisman Trophy winner. Uh-huh. And...

He was selected first overall by the Bills in the 1969 NFL Draft. Like, forget how old he is, you know? The Bills? The Buffalo Bills. That team really triggers me. Why? Because I dated some... That person who ghosted me had, like...

Everything Bills. Like a Bills mask during COVID. Oh my God. A Bills like. I know exactly who you're talking about now. A Bills phone case. I was like, please. That always just makes me think of that. Bad guy. Another reason that the Bills are bad guys. Truly. Sorry about it. I'm sorry. I'm not sorry. He played in the NFL for 11 seasons and was regarded as one of the greatest running backs of all time. In 1975, he appeared in, I didn't know this, but one of his most famous things is that he was in Hertz rental car commercials. Yeah.

Where he was just, like, sprinting through the airport, and they were supposed to be embodying speed as others shouted to him the Hertz slogan, Go OJ Go. He must have made a pretty penny. Yeah. Well, he also said that that took his, like, recognition rate in the country from 30% to 90%. Like, everyone knew who he was off the bat. Hey, Hertz has always been going strong. Yeah.

No, I'm sure they're like, oh, a mistake. A mistake. So he was a fast runner. Yeah, he was super fast. And then he pursued a career in acting and broadcasting.

I actually saw, so I watched roots when I was younger. My mom was like, Oh, that's OJ. I was like, who? And she's like, we can't even get into it. Like I wasn't born yet. Literally. So he was like, I don't know, in some TV shows and movies and stuff. And they always try to do the crossover. And it's like, sweetheart, it's not necessary all the time. Leave some for the rest of us. Literally, you know? Okay. So he was previously married to his childhood sweetheart, Margaret Marguerite. Um,

Oh, pretty name. Very pretty name. He stole her from his best friend, Al Cowlings, which keep Al in our back pocket because we will see him later. Okay. But he stole it. They were still like super tight after that. And OJ marries her and they go on to have three children together are now Jason and Aaron. However, Aaron, I believe that's how you say her name because it's A-A-R-E-N. I believe it's this girl. But however, Aaron drowned in the family swimming pool at two years old in 1979. Yeah.

Oh my God. Yeah. It's very sad. Holy shit. Tragic. Marguerite has said, I thought I had the quote here, but she was like, OJ basically being like, OJ is not a good person. Were they not around? Like,

Was there no, like, supervision?

They moved back to the United States when she was a toddler and they settled in Orange County. Friends described her as happy and bubbly and feisty, which we love that in a woman. We do love a feisty woman. We do. On May 20th, 1977, Nicole Brown graduated from high school. Three weeks later, she met OJ Simpson. Oh, God. Here we go. Yeah. So remember, 1977, he's still married. How old is he? He's 30. 30.

Yeah. So they met when she was working as a waitress at a Beverly Hills private club called Daisy. That night... Des? That night, a friend remembers OJ said of Nicole...

I'm going to marry that girl. He's like, you know, see that teenager over there? She's the future mother of my children. God. Okay. So also, if y'all are new here, nothing is more triggering to Tess and me than like when someone looks at someone they don't know anything about and they're like, I'm going to marry them. It just, it's always like a man saying it about usually a younger woman. I mean, that's not, not true. In literally every episode we talk about, this seems to be a really common theme. We're going to talk about it next week as well. Oh God. Oh God.

Tune in. Tune in. But gross. Gross. So, yeah. And his friends thought that was a little strange because OJ was still married at the time and because Nicole was 18 and he was 30. Right. Yeah. A little strange. Yeah. A little gross. If you remember in our Kris Jenner episode, OJ asked Kris to call Nicole's house because she lived with her parents and they didn't, you know, he didn't want them to be scared off by an older man calling. It's very Elvis and Priscilla. It sure is. Check out our Elvis episode. Mm-hmm.

They began dating, even though he's married. He files for divorce from his first wife in 1979. So two years after, they start dating. He doesn't, I mean, what's the wait? Good God. Nicole and OJ got married on February 20, or sorry, February 2nd, 1985 in his backyard. They have two children together, daughter Sydney, who was born in 1985, and son Justin, who was born in 1988. Wow.

Okay. Her friends say her marriage alternated between periods of loving bliss to emotional battery. Nicole kept records, I think like pretty early on. Actually, her sister talked about when she came home from their first date, her jeans were ripped. And she was like, what happened? She was like, OJ just got a little aggressive. Yeah.

But at that time, it's probably like, oh, he's so passionate and like, he can't keep his hands off of you. He's this famous guy, this like older guy. How exciting to be like dating someone like that. And she's so young. Also had Marguerite been vocal about like,

that he had done to her? I don't know when she was vocal, but I did find a quote being like, he's always been a bad guy. Okay. So I don't think he's ever been a very loving person. But it wasn't like known at this point that he may be abusive? I don't think so. Definitely not publicly. Yeah. Definitely not publicly. Okay. So Nicole kept records of abusive acts committed by OJ in the weeks and months before she and her friend were found murdered. Elements of that record, all which were found in her safe deposit box,

box and included she created a will because she was fearing for her life, a journal in which she wrote of OJ stalking her, photographs of her bruised face, letters of apology that he wrote to her, and news clippings reporting a well-publicized incident in which Mr. Simpson attacked her on New Year's Eve 1989.

So, this New Year's Eve 1989 act, or like fight that they were in, is a big deal. I mean, they had multiple arguments, but this one definitely sticks out. The fight was started because Nicole refused to give OJ oral sex.

According to police records, police went to the Simpson home in Brentwood at 3 a.m. on New Year's Day, 1989, and they were responding to a 911 call about a beating. Within seconds of an arrival, police saw Nicole Simpson wearing a bra and sweatpants running towards them, saying, quote, he's going to kill me. Nicole Simpson told police, according to the report. So officers reported that she clung to one of the officers and had a cut, swollen lip,

This was not the first time officers had visited their house...

They had visited their house eight times prior because of domestic fights. So, like, why was that thing happening to him? Well, Nicole told one of the officers, quote, you never do anything. You come out, you've been here eight times, and you never do anything to him. And the document quotes OJ as saying, this is a family matter. Why are you making a big deal out of it? Oh, my God. Also, OJ used to have, like, the LAPD over for, like, pool parties, and he was, like, the guy. They, like, kissed his ass, and they were like, well, if he says it's not a big deal, we have to follow suit. Also...

At this time, domestic abuse was a very public, or sorry, it was a very private matter. It wasn't

as something that should be public. I mean, I believe it wasn't until the late 70s that it was considered rape if you were married. I know. And we talk about this a lot in our Lorena Bobbitt episode of what was going on in the 90s with domestic violence. And it was just becoming a topic of conversation of like, oh, maybe you shouldn't be in this marriage if you suffer from abuse. I actually didn't even think about that Lorena Bobbitt was also going on in the 90s. Yeah. Two very public cases. Mm-hmm.

Also, you know, with Nicole, how she had said, like, he's going to kill me, she also told Chris and told multiple friends, he's going to kill me and he's going to get away with it. She said that multiple times. You think everyone just kind of felt trapped? Like, well, what are we supposed to do? Like, with his position of power? I think this friend group was a very unique friend group as well, who were all kind of dealing with their own crazy shit. And they were all in, like, a partying scene and, like, kind of, like,

Hush, hush, don't tell. Right. If that makes sense. I mean, it's like...

What do you do if your friend tells you that? I can't imagine. I think Kris was like, Kris Jenner was like, I can't hear the truth because then I'll never be, like ignorance is bliss almost. Right. Which doesn't make sense, but it is what it is. It's like a survival tactic too. Exactly. So from that night, the 1989 night, Nicole was hospitalized. OJ pleaded no contest to spousal battery and was required to undergo counseling and pay a $700 fine. $700?

That's it. And he was like, this is signed so many hours of community service. Do you think he did one hour of that? Of course not. Nothing. God, this country is broken. Yeah. So, oh my God, for so many reasons with this case. Truly. It's like it's just getting started. Exactly. And so also that was, they were, the police were called to their house eight times for domestic abuse. And that was the only time that he was arrested. So.

And Nicole had been putting evidence out there for years, like talking to her friends, calling the police. On February 25th, 1992, Nicole Brown files for divorce, citing irreconcilable differences. More domestic violence. Exactly. I wonder how much you could even say. Also...

And it's not her fault for doing that. She probably was terrified. But like, it just is so sad that she had to like, that's why she's filing. Exactly. And I was trying to find more details of their prenup because I did see one article that said in their marriage, she was actually not allowed to work. So he like had trapped her in every way. This is classic. Exactly. Classic, like controlling abusive behavior. Every single way.

So since she wasn't allowed to work, like her life was OJ when they were married. And after divorcing OJ, Nicole's friends said it was like they finally were getting Nicole back. She was finally out on her own. She loved being a full-time mom. When she was with OJ, she had to do everything he told her and go everywhere he went. But now it was like she was finally free. I've imagined having to co-parent with this man. Well...

They said that, like, when they would have these fights all the time, the kids would always just be upstairs sleeping because they were so... Nicole said that their kids were so used to seeing their fights in front of them, which is...

So sad. They think it's normal. I can't imagine trying to co-parent. And like, this is a very controlling, narcissistic man. They would go through periods of like getting back together and then breaking up again. And it's because the highs are so high and the lows are so low with that kind of cycle. Exactly. On October 25th, 1993, Nicole called 911 telling the dispatcher with an audibly shaky voice, quote, he's fucking going nuts.

The dispatcher told her to stay on the line. She replied, quote, I don't want to stay on the line. He's going to beat the shit out of me.

And he broke down their back door. He kicked it in to get into the house. Her house guest, Kato Kaelin, who this will be a player in our story as well. He was a friend of Nicole's. They met in Aspen. He was her house guest. OJ ended up manipulating him to come be his house guest. And he was like a wannabe actor and all of that stuff as well. But he experienced a lot of their fights. And he was there that night. Whose side was he on?

Kato seems like the kind of guy who's kind of like, I don't know. She's like, well, he's really a great guy in a lot of ways. It's like, didn't he tell you he was sorry? Yep. That's the kind of like... Say no more. You mean well, Kato, but my God. He's not doing enough. You're not doing enough at all. And Nicole even told Kato when OJ asked him to go live with him instead of Nicole. Nicole was like, he's manipulating you. Right. And he was like, oh, maybe. It seems like everyone's blind because he's a star.

That's exactly it, Tess. Like, this case is such a commentary on celebrity culture. And, like, what we prioritize. Exactly. He witnessed the fight. He saw him break the door down to get into his house. And this call will be put into play later. And Nicole called Sojourn. I'm so sorry if I'm not pronouncing that correctly. Sojourn, which is a woman's shelter on June 8th, 1994. She was considering staying at the shelter because she was afraid of what OJ might do to her because she was refusing to get back together with him.

She also reported a set of keys missing from her house a few weeks earlier. The keys were later found on Simpson when he was arrested for the murders of Brown and Ron Goldman. Oh. Yeah. So, again, she's trying to do everything she can to get people to see her. God. Yeah. So. Ugh.

I mean, good. Yeah. Well, her family... It's all so complicated. Yeah.

Because her family was being supported by OJ. Like, OJ got Nicole's dad a job at, like, this Hertz dealership. And so they had, like, a comp... The Hertz shit! I know! Hertz has ruined everything! Hertz has ruined everything! So...

They were also... They also had kind of complicated relationships with OJ. They were like, leave him, but also... It's like financial abuse, too, because he knows what he's doing. Oh, he knows what he's doing. He's like, I'm going to be like the good old husband, ex-husband. I'll be the provider. Mm-hmm. And like, how could you not love me? So...

Okay. Well, that's not a pair I'd want to hang out with. No.

For a night going to McDonald's with them. Me either. Okay, so at 9.40 p.m., Nicole's mom called Nicole to say that she left her glasses at the restaurant. Nicole calls the restaurant and asks her friend, Ron Goldman, who is a waiter there, if he could grab them and drop them off at her house. He leaves the restaurant at 9.50 p.m., telling a co-worker he's going to go take these glasses back to Nicole, and then he's going to go meet up with some friends in Marina Del Rey.

A neighbor who lived diagonally across the alley behind Nicole's place later told authorities he heard a dog start barking at 10.15. At 10.55 p.m., Stephen Schwab, who is a neighbor out walking his dog, comes across a big white Akita, which is the type of dog...

barking in the alley. Steve didn't know who the dog was, but he saw that he was clearly freaking out. So he goes up to see his collar to see who he belongs with too. And when he goes up to see his collar, he sees that the dog's paws are covered in blood. So he's like, are you hurt? What's going on? The Akita, the dog who we later will find out his name is also Kato.

Gross, honestly. So Nicole's kids loved Kato, so they named their dog after him. Okay, well then it's not their fault, but... Nikita's like, if we could just... I want my own identity. Exactly. So Nikita followed Schwab home, and he and his wife gave the dog some water. They're trying to figure out what to do, and then another neighbor shows up at 11.40 p.m. and was like, listen, I'll keep the dog overnight. But Kato, the dog...

super upset and restless. So they're like, okay, let's take him on a walk and try to get him to calm down. So they didn't know that that who the dog belonged to yet. They had no idea. Okay. Just the name and like, and that it had blood all over its paws. Okay. So the dog led them right back in front of 875 Bundy drive. Dogs save everything. They save the world. They know. They know. Dogs should solve crimes. They do. That is true. That is their job. Yeah.

But they should get more recognition for it. They do. We don't deserve dogs. Dogs should solve crimes. They're like, lady, we're way ahead of you. So Kato leads them right in front of 875, Bundy Drive, just after midnight. Because there's a gate, but there's all these big trees and it's dark, so you can't really see anything. So they kind of lean into the gate. And when they lean past the front gate, they saw a woman lying in a pool of blood.

And police were obviously called to the scene. And when they went in, they found Nicole Brown's body. And next to Nicole Brown's body, they found Ron Goldman's body. The waiter? The waiter who was bringing back the glasses. Nicole was 35 years old and Ron was 25 years old. Oh my God. So young. So young.

So were they romantically involved? It's unclear. And that will come into play later if that was a motive. Right. Because he's like, I was jealous. Which used to be legal. What? You could kill your wife in a crime of passion or jealousy in Italy up until 1980-something.

I grow so tired. Literally so tired. So tired. But hey, that's for another episode. Oh God, can't wait. Yeah, yeah. Sydney and Justin, their children, had been asleep in the house the whole time these murders happened. The police officer, when they went into the house, found them asleep in their beds. So it didn't wake them up? So Bundy is kind of a busy street. So that's one thing that traffic can drown it out. But also, they're so used to hearing fighting and screaming. Oh my God, and like screams.

And so they slapped through. That is so depressing. Luckily, they were taken out through the back. They didn't ever see anything. So the walkway leading to the stairs was covered in blood, but the soles of Nicole's feet were clean. And based on this evidence, investigators concluded that she was the first person to be killed and she was the intended target. Okay, so we're about to get pretty gruesome.

She had been stabbed multiple times in the head and neck, but there were few defensive wounds on her hands, implying a short struggle to investigators. There's a large bruise in the center of her upper back with a corresponding footprint on her clothing, indicating to investigators that after killing Ron Goldman, the assailant returned to Brown's body, stood on her back, pulled her head up by her hair, and slit her throat.

Nicole's neck was severed so deeply that she, or sorry, her neck was cut so deeply that her head was almost decapitated. And Ron was stabbed at least 22 times. So it was a gruesome murder. Also, I think we said this on the podcast before, like, stabbing is like, it's a very intimate thing.

way to murder someone. Especially that many times and like, you know, like you're, you feel like you're getting joy out of doing that. You are like an animal, like a monster. Of course. So near Ron's body, there was a blue knit cap,

And a left-hand leather glove. Here we fucking go. God, I'm already getting pissed off. I know. Oh, just wait. You're going to get so much more pissed off. And the envelope containing the glasses that he was returning. Detectives determined that Goldman came to Nicole's house during her killing and that the killer killed him to silence Goldman and remove any witnesses. That's like one theory of why he was killed.

Right. A witness later testified that he was out when he heard a man's voice coming from Nicole's house saying, hey, hey, hey, which Ron's family said is exactly what he would say coming across like a tense situation, which like, I mean, that's a very broad thing to say. Hey, hey, hey. But I feel like you also didn't know your family. That is true. So that could have been at the time of the murders. A trail of the assailant's blood, bloody shoe prints ran through the back gate and

to the left of some of the prints were drops of blood from the assailant who was apparently bleeding from the left hand. Left hand. Left hand. God, how can they tell that shit? I literally don't know. Just because it's like from the shoe print, there's blood on one side. It must be from that way because they could also tell that measuring the distance between the prints indicated that the assailant walked.

rather than ran away. That is haunting. Can you imagine? Also, to walk and not run away, it's almost like you kind of know where you're going, too. Oh, yeah, I guess if they're scattered, crazy, you're like, where's the back door? But there seems to be confidence. It's so crazy that you can tell that they walked instead of ran. It's amazing that people do this for a living. And dogs. And dogs! Dogs know everything. Yeah, that is wild.

Sorry, guys. Sorry for those of you who hate show. Also, by the way, it's both of us saying show instead of so. But love and light. Yeah. Love and light. Deal with it. But thank you. On the night of June 12th, OJ was supposed to take a red-eye flight from L.A. to Chicago, where he was going to play golf in a Hertz tournament. Enough with the Hertz. I am never renting from Hertz again. Mark my words. How could you? It's enterprise or nothing. Truly. Call us enterprise. Yeah.

The flight was set to leave at 1145 and a limo arrived to the house on Rockingham, which is where his house was. The street was called Rockingham to pick him up early around 1025. But at 1040, the limo driver kept buzzing the intercom with no response at the gate. And the house looked dark and like no one was home. So the driver smokes a cigarette. He calls his boss because he's like, what am I supposed to do? Like this very high profile client. He had never driven a celebrity before. How scary. Can you imagine the fear? It's like, I'm going to get fired. I'm going to get fired.

Yeah, it's going to be my fault. Oh, we've all been there. Yeah, we have. At one point, he saw a shadowy figure approach the front door and then all of a sudden moving towards the southern walkway that leads to Kato Kaelin's bungalow. He didn't see which direction that shadowy figure came from. So it's like someone was about to walk through the front door and was like, oh shit, and then went to the back. Okay.

Kato Kaelin was on the phone with a friend at that time. He's like, hey, I just want to talk about my day. Literally, he was always on the phone. For my research, always chatting on the phone with his friends. I imagine him looking like that kid in Booksmart for some reason. The one who is really rich who hosts that party on the boat. Oh my god. He's giving me that energy.

That kind of is that energy, but he looks like a golden retriever personified. Like long, long hair in the 90s, like super fit. That makes sense. Yeah. He was on the phone with a friend and at approximately 1040, something crashed into the wall of the guest house. And he describes hearing three thumps and he saw like a picture frame kind of move. So on the phone with his friend, he was like,

Did we just have an earthquake? And she was like, no. He goes out to look outside. And instead of walking to where he kind of heard the thumps, he walked straight out, like, towards the house. Because the thumps came from, like, the other side of the house, like in this alleyway. I'm not describing it great. And then he saw the limo outside the gate from the backyard. And he was like, oh, shit, OJ must still be here. Because he thought he had left and gone to Chicago by then. So he lets the limo in from the gate. Okay.

And OJ finally came out through the front door a few minutes later, claiming that he accidentally fell asleep and overslept.

At 1030? He said that he, like, took a nap and then was like, oh, shit, I overslept. I'm sure you did. Both the limousine driver and Cato would later testify that Simpson seemed agitated that night. The limo driver also said that there was no car parked in the front. But when they left, there was a white Ford Bronco parked in an odd position, like someone was in a hurry to park it. Like, the back was sticking out and the front was, like, pointed into the curb. Yeah.

Yeah. And that was not... The Bronco was not there when he arrived, but when they left, it was. OJ's car is a white Ford Bronco. Right. So... It's like he wasn't home that whole time. It's like... Okay. Oh, okay. It's just the beginning. But it's like everything... I know. It's... There's...

Also, OJ had four luggage bags in the car that night, one of them being like a knapsack. But OJ wouldn't let the driver touch it. He was like, no, no, no, I'll take it. I'm just waiting for you to be like, and all of his suitcases were covered in blood. Right. But we still didn't know. Like, what the fuck? Self-income. OJ makes his flight to Chicago. Okay. Oh, good. Yeah.

Hope you had a lovely flight. First class was everything you could dream of. So when police realized that the murder victim, one of them is OJ's wife, LAPD Commander Keith Boucher ordered detectives Tom Lang, Philip Venator, Ron Phillips, and Mark Furman to notify OJ of her death and to escort him to the police station to pick up their kids. He's not a suspect at all right now.

Even with all the domestic violence calls and stuff? Even with all the domestic violence calls. They don't even think about it. So they go to OJ's house. No one answers. They can't get in. They call OJ and let him know that his wife had been murdered. He's upset by it.

but he was awfully unconcerned about the circumstances of her death. And he doesn't ask like how he doesn't ask if the kids are okay. He does ask if they've been hurt or if they'd seen anything. Did you hear the audio? I didn't. I mean, I saw it on American crime story, but he's just like, Oh my God.

God. And then it's like, but he doesn't ask any questions, which like, sure. You could argue like people in shock do things. But as a father, I would think that you would ask about the kids too. If they, she's been murdered in her home, right? Yeah. So no one's home. They noticed that there is blood on OJ's Bronco.

There's literally blood on the car. So they're like, okay, someone could be hurt inside there. So they send Mark Furman. This is important to know. They send Mark Furman, one of the detectives, over a wall onto the property. Because at this point, they're like, we don't need a warrant because we're afraid for someone's safety or something. Yeah, just get in there. Yeah. So keep Mark Furman in our pocket. Okay. Mark Furman. Yeah. It's when he jumps over the wall that Mark Furman discovered a blood-stained right-hand glove.

And this is right on the alleyway by where Kato heard the thumping sounds. So there's a right hand glove right there, which was determined to be the mate of the left hand glove found at the crime scene. It is actually confirmed that's its mate. The evidence was determined to be probable cause to cause or to issue an arrest warrant for Simpson. They're like, oh shit, now we have a suspect.

Like, this is a crime scene now. Right, like we have someone's belonging. Yeah. So, Marsha Clark is put on as lead prosecutor in the trial. And she will have a co-prosecutor named Christopher Darden. Marsha Clark never referred to OJ as OJ. She called him Mr. Simpson because she was like, we would never call Charles Manson Chuck. And everyone's a little too casual with this guy. And she's...

Like to be a woman prosecutor in this huge case. No kidding. Isn't Marsha Cross the actress on Desperate Housewives? Marsha Clark. Oh. Marsha Cross is the actress on Desperate Housewives. Oh, got it. That porcelain skin. I mean, that's just how I picture this woman too. So Marsha Clark. Mm-hmm.

Marsha Clark had a really bad perm, which it was the 90s. And instead of being like, wow, what an amazing woman who's fighting for justice, the media constantly made fun of her looks throughout this whole trial. Of course. They're like, if she's not hot, we don't like her. Literally. And one of her ex-husbands sold naked pictures to her to a magazine. And she was going through a custody battle all at this time.

And she was like, he got away with beating her. He's not going to get away with murdering her. Like she was very passionate about this case. Thank God. Of course. Like a smart woman. I know that is. I know. Yeah. So, um, on June 13th, the police go to OJ's home and take him in for questioning. Now this is when the power of celebrity comes to play because one of the detectives noticed that OJ had a cut on his left hand.

On his left hand finger, which was consistent with the hand that the killer was bleeding from, as we remember from the crime scene. And so the detective asked him how he got that cut. And at first, OJ was like, oh, I cut it in Chicago on a glass because I got so upset when I heard about Nicole. And then the detectives were like, oh, okay. By the way, we found some blood on and in your car. And he was like, oh, actually, you know what? I might have cut it when I was in L.A. What the fuck? And I think I did. I just don't remember how. And they were like, oh, okay.

They questioned him for just a little over 30 minutes, Tess. They're like, so sorry to like bother you. Yes. Like actually like they are starstruck by him. A man who has like had domestic abuse history and his wife is murdered and they questioned him for 30 minutes and then they let him go.

That is so sickening. And Marsha Clark was like, how could you let him go? And they were like, he's a celebrity. He can't flee. And she's like, A, yes, he can, which we will see. And B, he could tamper with evidence. There's so many things that he could go do. And what is a prosecution supposed to work with with that interview, with that questioning? Yeah.

That's truly crazy. And then you can't use what he's saying here, right? Like in the court or can you? Yeah, you can, but not, you can't do much with that questioning. Yeah. So I'm at a loss for words. So OJ immediately lawyers up. Yeah. He calls Ron Shapiro or sorry, Robert Shapiro, who was previously a civil lawyer known for settling. And, um, he actually still works with the Kardashians. He,

He worked on Lamar's case and he worked on like, I guess Robert Jr. had a case. Dark. Crazy. Dark. So he's not like being, he's not getting a lawyer because for like murdering her yet. It's just to like. Oh no, it's like where things are about to go down. You need a really good lawyer. Okay. Got it. So Robert Shapiro was, um, they later add on and he was the lead attorney. And then they later add on Johnny Cochran, who at one point was known, he, he was known a lawyer for pre-spook,

police brutality in civil rights cases. Um, and then he becomes the lead attorney later. The team included a noted defense attorney, F Lee Bailey, Robert Kardashian, who Robert wasn't practicing law at the time. And he wasn't a criminal lawyer, but they used him as like the in between Kate,

Like, piece so that he would have his friend and a lawyer on the case. Because they were, like, close. They were super close. So he was kind of like his translator. And then Harvard appeals lawyer Alan Dershowitz. And this is what we know as...

the dream team is what they're later called. Before there was Yolanda and Kim and Brandy. And all goes back to Bravo. Wow, really does. Oh, man. Wow. Find your girl who can do both. Literally. So OJ spent the night between June 16th and June 17th at Robert Kardashian's house. And on June 17th, DNA testing comes back with matches to OJ. Okay.

P.S. This is like DNA testing is very new in the 90s. Right. I remember that from JonBenet. They were like, we don't really know if this works, but crazy, crazy. So DNA testing comes back and matches to OJ. The blood trail at Rockingham property matched OJ.

The blood found on the glove matched OJ. The blood drops at the murder scene match OJ. And the blood found on the Bronco matched a mixture of Nicole and Ron. Nicole's blood was also found on socks that the police had taken from OJ's residence. So it's at this time that the detectives recommended that he be charged with two counts of first degree murder.

And with special circumstances of multiple killings. Also, the DNA, I don't know the exact statistic, but it's like a one in like 190 million match. Like, it's not like it could be him and a bunch of other people. It's like, it is him. It is him. It is him. So, yeah. Yeah.

So he can't just be arrested then once they find that? So that's when they're like, okay, now we gotta charge him. Oh, and he's about to... So LAPD called Robert Shapiro at 8.30am and they're like, okay, OJ needs to turn himself in, which is also like celebrity perk that's like, we won't come and get you. Like, hey, he can take his time. He can get all of his belongings together. Literally, because Robert Shapiro's like, could you give us till 11? To do what? Well, on their side, it's like, let's figure out a game plan.

Yeah. And so they were like, sure, we'll give you, you know what? We'll give you till noon. Yeah. And also Robert Shapiro is calling in like a psychiatrist to like bring him in. Like maybe we can say later. Insanity. Insanity maybe. Also we can say that he's like suicidal right now. Like let's figure it out. So Simpson doesn't show up when he's supposed to at noon. And they're like, okay, we're going to Rob's house to get him. So they show up an hour later. But OJ and his friend, Al Cowlings,

They're gone. And no one knows where they are. Even Robert Shapiro and Robert Kardashian are like, we don't know where he is. Oh, Robert Kardashian didn't know? Or did he? Do you think he knew so much more? Do you think Robert Kardashian knew that he killed her? I think he, at the beginning, was in denial. And later on, Robert Kardashian goes on a Barbara Walters interview and is basically like, yeah, I think he did it. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But isn't he not allowed to say that because of, like, lawyer? Well, yeah.

say what he could because he was he wasn't allowed to say that but he could because he was called in a civil lawsuit that we'll talk about later I know law I'm like what literally what just basically call me Elle Woods I feel like I'm ready to go truly I could never be a lawyer because I would be spilling that tea same and also crying when I get frustrated please don't tell me actually what you did I won't be able to help myself well it's crazy

Because at the beginning, like with defense lawyers, they're like, you need to tell me if you actually did it so that we can know like what to do. And they kept saying that to OJ and OJ the whole time was like, nope, didn't do it. So even though his blood is everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. So now police are pissed. No one knows where he is.

At 5 p.m., Robert Kardashian goes on air reading a note that OJ left that seems like it's a suicide note. So people are like, we have got to find him. Helicopters go up all over the highway looking for Al Cowling's white Bronco. So he also had a white Bronco because he was like obsessed with everything that OJ did. Losery. Yeah.

Literally. So it wasn't the Bronco that's in the crime scene, but it was out. It was a matching one. It was a matching one. That'd be a guess. Truly. Like we have to have matching everything. If we committed a murder, we'd be like, let's all just have the same thing. Like slowly morphing into the same person. Of course. Not like we would ever do that. No, of course not. So at 5.51, OJ reportedly called 911 and the call was traced to the Santa Ana freeway at around 6.25.

a motorist in Orange County notified California Highway Patrol after seeing someone believed to be Simpson riding in a Bronco on the I-5 freeway heading north. And this is the footage that everyone was watching. At 645, a police officer saw the Bronco heading north on the 405. When she caught up to it, Al Cowlings yelled because he was driving and OJ was in the back. And he yelled out that OJ was in the backseat of the vehicle and was pointing a gun to his own head and to back off. And

And so the officers backed off, but followed the vehicle at 35 miles per hour with up to 20 police cars following the chase. That's the thing. It's like when I watch the footage, they are going so slow. It's crazy. Isn't this the worst thing you could do to prove your innocence? Yeah, it is. Like who had this fucking...

Well, more than 95 million people were watching it live. People pulled over on the side of the road and were cheering him on. People made signs. They went to the like bridges on the highway and have like run. Oh, uh,

We love juice and free OJ and run OJ run like the Hertz commercial. Enough. They got so much advertising from this, like free advertising. They're just like eating popcorn watches. We never expected this. People are cheering him on. So people got hands.

Fans of him? Fans of his. Like, everyone. People are thinking already, like, LAPD is corrupt and he deserves to get out of here. That's where their mind is. One woman grabbed her two-year-old child and followed the police chase to his house and was like, I just wanted to be a part of history. It's like, guys, we're sick. We're sick. We need to look sometimes at our actions. We do. So the chase ended at 8 p.m. They end up back to his house.

Because they call him and they're like, please, let's end this. After remaining in the Bronco for about 45 minutes, Simpson exited at 8.50 p.m. with a Frayn's family photo in his hand and went inside for about an hour and then surrendered. It's crazy that 95 million people were watching this live. What was the point of the chase then? Why did he do that? I think it was like a moment of panic. And I think he was, I don't know if he like how suicidal he was. And then he was like, I'm just gonna go back home.

And then I think it was just like, okay, let's try to do this. I don't, I don't know. I can never begin to understand OJ. Yeah. I mean, Hey, there's probably not much, uh, you know, if he logic. Yeah. Yeah. Stabbed his wife like a thousand times. Exactly. That goes out the window. Right. So OJ has a second arraignment on July 22nd, um, which is basically saying, do you plead guilty or not guilty? They tried to do it the first time. There's too much media coverage. So they had to like take a break or something. Um,

They do it the second time. And when asked how he pleads to the murders, Simpson firmly stated, quote, absolutely 100% not guilty.

Just like we could have just said guilty or not guilty. And then moved on. So annoying. So annoying. If I was a judge, I'd like roll my eyes. Another reason I couldn't be in law. No. Just the whole time. Like sign. Literally. So how do you find a jury? How do you choose 12 impartial people for this trial when literally 95 million people watch the Bronco chase live? And everyone knows who he is. And everyone probably liked him, right? Like he was a star. Yeah.

He was like an American hero. So Judge Lance Ito started interviewing 304 prospective jurors, each of whom had to fill out a 75-page questionnaire. And I wrote down, like the Laguna Beach casting. Wow, that's so true, Claire. So adorable. Oh, my God.

Of course. Wow. Check out our early 2000s episode on Patreon. Please do. So, you know, they had to ask, like, do you have any experience with domestic violence? Like all these different questions and like making sure that you're not partial. On November 3rd, 12 jurors were seated with 12 alternates. They needed the alternates because throughout this whole trial, it would pop up like, oh, actually she does have experience with this or they're trying to sell a story to the press. And so then you would have to keep it. Yeah.

So it was 17 women and seven men. 62% of the jury was black and 20% was, it says Anglo white. Yeah. Marsha Clark, the prosecutor believes that women, regardless of race would sympathize with domestic violence, the domestic violent aspect of the case and connect with Brown personally. On the other hand,

The defense's research suggested that black women would not be sympathetic to Brown, who was white, because of tensions about interracial marriages. So both sides accepted a disproportionate number of female jurors and welcomed it.

It's so weird to me when I watch that process. Like, I thought jury selection was completely random. Like, I know that you have to, like, fill out some things that can't be partial. But, like, they can say, we don't want that juror. Like, you only have so many strikes. But who gets to, like...

Like they'll literally always a little bit like cited one way. Yeah. But why? Like, how is that fair? It doesn't seem fair. Like the whole jury process to me even seems crazy that we're like judged by a jury of our peers. Do you think it's the right way to do it? I don't know. I don't know what the other solution is, but it just seems a little wild to me. I know. I don't know actually a lot about jury selection. And also that can you imagine that being chosen for this case test? They were like,

sequestered. That's I think how you say it. Yeah. For almost a year, no TV in their hotel rooms. They can't talk to their family about this. People were getting physical with each other. Someone slapped another jury member because they were literally going crazy. Oh my God. That could be a whole documentary just about the TV show or movie. Yeah. A hundred percent. So the trial began on January 24th, 1995, seven months after the murders.

The judge allowed a single camera in the courtroom to stream out to all networks as well as local television station. The big three television networks gave more airtime to the case and to the Oklahoma City bombing, which is crazy. Oh, my God. And wait, so this whole time OJ is not in jail. He is in jail now. Oh, he is in jail. Yes, he is in jail. Okay. Yeah, he can't. So he's been in jail for the past seven months. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Was anyone else a suspect at this point? No.

And no one ever is a suspect either afterwards. If you're watching on YouTube, like it's just hard not to get animated about it because it's crazy. Even have another suspect, right? Because there's literally all a hundred percent evidence points to just this one person. Exactly. People were carrying signs outside the courtroom during the trial, declaring free OJ, save the juice. And even whether you did it or not, we still love you, OJ. It's such a complicated time. Who are these people? Like, who are they?

It was such a racial divide in this country. Right. The black community really rallied around OJ and the white community. And it like really widened the racial gap even more with the verdict. Yeah. It's crazy to watch. Yeah. And it's like, again, like think about where the city is at this time. Like LAPD is corrupt as hell. Yeah.

Right. So it's like, of course your first instinct is going to be like, fuck them. It's just sad. There's no justice in this case. There was no justice in the Rodney King case. No. Marsha Clark said also when the trial began, all the networks were getting these hate mail letters because people's soap operas were getting canceled. But after the trial, people were like, oh my God, I loved your show to her. Like people watch this like it was a soap opera. This is...

of everything. I know. When it's like two people were murdered. Yeah. But you know, like I would have been enthralled in it as well. Of course. I mean, we're talking about it right now. We talk about so many of these murder cases where it's like, we're disgusting as a society, but it's like, it's fascinating because it represents so much. You can like dissect so much out of it. Exactly. So the prosecution argued that the domestic violence with the Simpson Brown marriage culminated in her murder. The defense asked that all

Why? Because they said that it was a murder case, not a domestic violence case, and that it was irrelevant. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Okay.

Which you're like, yeah, no, those things go together. But how can it just be excluded when... It's infuriating. The judge denied the defense's motion to suppress the incidences of domestic violence, but he only allowed witness accounts to be presented to the jury. So, like, her letters and stuff couldn't be presented because it wasn't... She wasn't alive to cross-examine her. So it had to be people like Cato who had seen it. Well, no one wants to hear from Cato at this point. Yeah.

Truly. Kato's like, this is my shot. Yeah, Kato's like, I actually love this 15 minutes of fame. I wonder if he did. I think he did. I'm sure. All right, Rammies, who's tired? Who needs a break? Whether you're taking care of your kids, you know we love our Rammie moms, a senior loved one, or juggling both, God bless, we all need and deserve a break sometimes. Care.com can help give you that break by helping you find trusted caregivers in your neighborhood.

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Rammies, I'm going to let you in on a little secret, and I'm going to say something that you probably have never heard a soon-to-be bride say, and that is that I love wedding planning. I have had such an amazing, fun, light experience doing it with my fiance, and that is a huge thanks to Zola. So with Zola, you can plan your entire wedding in one convenient place. You

You guys, they have everything. So from like the day you get engaged, you can start planning on Zola. You can find the venue there. You can create your save the dates. You can make your registry. You can make your wedding website. Even to the final stages of tasting your cake, Zola has everything.

everything you need to make this process super easy and fun. And this should just be a pleasurable experience that you get to share with someone you love. And I'm really appreciative that Zola has just let us do that. There's even a five-star app that helps you plan on the go on your couch. So if you and your future husband or wife are watching a movie, having a glass of wine, plan your wedding

from the couch. Do it wherever you want because this is all about you. So here's what you're going to do. You're going to start planning at Zola.com. That's Z-O-L-A.com. You can thank me later. So what the prosecution think happened is that on the night of the murders, OJ was angry with Nicole because of a black dress that she wore, which Kato did testify that he did say something to her about it. And her family had said that he said something, which he said was tight, is too tight.

OJ's Simpson, he had a girlfriend during all of this, by the way, but she broke up with her. Her name was Paula Barberi. God, I'm so sorry. I don't know how to pronounce her last name. She wanted to attend the recital with him, but he wouldn't let her. So she broke up with him that night. So what they think happened is that

OJ went over to Brown's house in attempt to reconcile their relationship and Brown refused. So OJ murdered her in a final act of control. And then Ron came upon the scene to return the eyeglasses and was murdered as well in order to silence and remove any witnesses. And then they think that he got back into his Bronco, drove home, parked it at the house, took off the bloodstained clothes, put them in that knapsack.

except for the socks and the gloves, put clean ones on left towards the limousine at the airport. They think he opened the knapsack, remove the clothes and the shoes and the murder weapon, threw them in the trash before putting the knapsack in one of his suitcases and headed towards his flight, which I agree. Yeah. I think all of that spot sounds exactly what happened. Yeah. They opened their case by playing the four minute long 911 call from the New Year's night in 1989. So I guess they could actually play that game.

And then they have her sister testify to many episodes of domestic violence in the 80s. And Nicole's sister gets on the stand and tells stories of when OJ picked up Nicole and hurled her against walls and would physically throw her out of their house during arguments. And that she testified that he was agitated with their whole family the night of the dance recital.

The bravery to get on stand and talk like and tell the story in front of the world. Talk about your murdered sister who you had to, you know, witness her being. I can't imagine. Attacked constantly. I can't imagine. The letters of that Brown had written, they were ruled inadmissible as hearsay.

Because she was dead and couldn't be cross-examined. That's what it is. I guess the call, they have like a physical thing that they can listen to. They're like, also, she's a woman, so she's probably lying. Yeah, she's crazy. In her journals and her letters, she's probably just, you know, making all of this up. And the prosecution actually ends up kind of dropping the domestic violence thing because they're like, we have so much DNA evidence. Like, if they're not going to let us fight with that, then whatever, we'll just drop it. So they also go into like a time...

Timing thing, the medical examiner testified that Brown's time of death was estimated between 10 p.m. and 10.30. And Cato Kaelin testifies that he went to get burgers with OJ the last time he saw him was at 9.36 and he didn't see them again. He didn't see him again until 10.54. So OJ has no alibi for approximately one hour and 18 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. And he never like tries to come up with an alibi. He says he was napping. That's not an alibi, babe.

Yeah, that's the worst alibi you could have. See, no.

No one has seen you. And they actually like take the jurors to the crime scene and to OJ's house because the defense was trying to say there's no way he had enough time to do all of this. And the prosecution is like, yes, he did. And Robert Kardashian admitted later that prior to the jurors visiting Simpson's home, the defense team had switched out all of his photos of white women for photos of his children and switched out a picture of his new girlfriend.

for a Norman Rockwell painting from Cochran's office. Isn't that tampering with the crime scene? I guess his house wasn't technically the crime scene. And they had already had everything that they needed from the crime scene. But they were like, we're going to make him look like... That's so manipulative. It's so scary. It's like, I feel like they should have to tell the jurors that they did that. Yes. That's so fucking sneaky. It's so sneaky. So the defense. The defense, like, how can you even... Yeah, what is...

What are they going to even say? Compromise, contaminated, corrupted. Johnny Cochran always had like these phrases, like that's what he was known for. Oh, you're so smart with your little C's, huh? I can do that too. He loves the alliteration. So they argued that the DNA evidence against Simpson was compromised by mishandling of the criminalist during the collection phase of the evidence. And that...

100% of the real killer's DNA had vanished from the evidence samples. And they were saying that the testing wasn't reliable because it was handled sloppy.

But what about his blood? I know. Well, so they say the defense put microbiologists on the stand who said the evidence was then contaminated in the LADP crime lab and Simpson's DNA from his reference, from his reference file was transferred to all three exhibits. Like they were saying that when they took his blood at questioning, which he gave them his blood, then they then put it on the gloves and all of that stuff later. Like they put it on there. That is such a lame, like you can't just be like, well,

this happened, but then it was ruined because like, that's just, sorry, I'm like screaming into the mic. I'm screaming this whole episode. And he said, um, and then when the prosecution questioned him on that, he said he had no evidence that cross-contamination had occurred and that he was testifying to what might occur versus what actually occurred. It's like, well then shut up. God. Yeah. Yeah.

So he also conceded that nothing happened during packaging and shipping that would affect the validity of the results. So he's like, I'm just saying, like, what could have happened? And then corruption, corruption is what they say. That Mark Furman, the detective, took the glove from the crime scene and took it to OJ's house and dropped it there and planted it to frame him. Because of racial tension? Are all the detectives white men? They...

They are. All of OJ's legal team is white except for Johnny Cochran. And Johnny Cochran was known for fighting cases against police brutality. And so this is really what led his defense. Let's talk about Mark Furman for a second. Yeah. So one of the biggest blows to the prosecution's case came when the LAPD detective Mark Furman, who found the glove,

was revealed to have used the N-word on tape after formally declaring in court that he had not used that word in the past 10 years. The defense discovered audio tapes of Furman repeatedly using the word 41 times total eight years before the murder.

And people had said, like, this man is not a good guy. And he literally, under oath, said that he had not used that word. And they're like, oh, really? And they played the tapes. And it was all there. And it was bad. Yikes. And it was talking about how LAPD can just go murder people. Yikes. It was bad. That is not good. No. So then they're like, he planted it. Which is... God.

God, it's like, yes, the LAPD is corrupt. Yes. But that doesn't mean that we can ignore. It would be different if there were multiple suspects of this. It was a little bit like a gray area. Right. So that would be one thing of like, okay, we really do have to take this into account because of the history and because of like the what's going on right now in the city, in this world. Sure. Yes. It's all terrible. Both of these things can be true. Both of them can be true. But when there's no understanding.

Other evidence or suspects. And also, Mark Furman's like, none of his DNA was on any of this stuff. Like, how do you think he collected all of this? That's so... Yeah. Terrible. Yeah, and this allowed the defense to take away any credibility that Furman might have had and suggest that Furman was both a liar, because he did lie, so why would he not lie about something else, and a racist. And remember that 66% of the jury...

were black. So from now on, the trial turns from being a murder trial to a trial about race. And there's just no way for the prosecution to like get it back on track after that. And God, and then here we go with the gloves.

On June 15th, 1995, Chris Darden, who is working with Marsha Clark on the prosecution, he surprised everyone. Marsha Clark and him had discussed this before by asking OJ to try on the gloves. And Marsha was like, do not do that. Like, it's just not going to be good.

The prosecution, yeah, originally said that they're not going to do it. So the thing was, they decided they weren't going to do it because the gloves had been soaked in blood from OJ, Nicole, and Ron, and frozen and unfrozen several times. And instead of having them try on the gloves, they had a Bloomingdale's employee testify that Nicole had purchased a pair of gloves in the same size in 1990 at Bloomingdale's for OJ, along with the receipt of

And a photo of OJ wearing those same gloves. So he's like, we didn't need him to try them on. We know that they shrunk. But he does anyways. First of all, he has to put on latex gloves before the actual gloves. So that's a whole other layer. And latex is sticky. Very sticky. Erica Jane? We know. We know. We've seen her wardrobe, her dressing. It's a tough thing to get into. Yeah.

So the leather gloves appeared too tight for Simpson to put on easily, especially over the latex gloves. Marsha Clark claimed that Simpson was acting when he appeared to be struggling to put the gloves on. Oh my God, I can just imagine. And he was. He was like, oh!

Yeah. Like literally he's like looking at the jury, like, I don't know guys. And then Johnny Cochran replied, I don't think he could ask the size of his hands, but he was acting like I have jeans that are tighter that I wear every day. And they're called standing jeans. Of course that man, they still fit. But then everyone was like, shit, they don't fit like a glove. So like, I'm sorry, but like, it just seems like there is some foolish. I think it's, you want to see what you want to see. Yeah.

Right. And I know that that does happen because that is so much of law. But...

I'm just like, it's guilty without a reasonable doubt. And that glove gave them a reasonable doubt that they're like, oh, they don't fit. So that was like the stamp of approval for them and being like, at least there's one thing, the physical hard evidence because we see it. We see it with our own eyes. And then Cochran repeated a slogan he used in his closing argument. If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.

He's like, this is going to be good. It's like, I am a poet. He loves that they asked him to try on the gloves too. And I think he was workshopping those, that, that line. I'm sure just all night in his journal, all night saying it in different accents. Yeah.

He's like, I'll try Cockney. I'll try Southern. I'll try Irish just to switch it up. In his closing arguments, the defense couldn't really refute any of the prosecution's claims because it's not even about it anymore. Well, they couldn't really say anything else about the DNA because it all was there too. So instead, he focused on attacking the LAPD and Furman.

He was like, and it is like a lawyer tactic where it's like, well, if I can't prove them wrong, then I just need to distract them over here with something. Yeah. So on October 3rd, 1995, after 133 days of testimony and the jury being sequestered for the better part of a year, the verdict was here. And like we said, the jury got violent. Like they were, I can't even imagine. I mean. It'd be horrible. I can't imagine doing that for three days. Yeah.

For a day. Oh my God. I panicked. Like text Adrian, Tessa's brother. When I got jury duty, I was like, what do I do? I do every time. I'm like, can I say that I'm breastfeeding? He's like, okay, you say this every time. I'm like, no, you can't just say that.

And also they don't have a child. Yeah. When have they ever cared about that? Truly. Unless it like offends them if you do it in public, you know, it's disgusting and women shouldn't do it. So exactly. So Americans gathered around television sets. Like everything was put on hold that day. It was streamed. It was streamed in Times Square. The verdict. President Clinton left the Oval Office to watch with the staff.

150 million people tuned in live. And at 10:07 AM, OJ Simpson was acquitted on both counts for murder.

In the documentary O.J. Made in America, juror Carrie Best said she believes 90% of the jury actually decided to acquit Simpson as payback for Rodney King. Juror Lionel Cryer, who gave Simpson a black power salute after the verdict, said in retrospect he would render a guilty verdict. Juror Anze Asher...

Aschenbach, who initially voted guilty before changing her vote, stated she regrets the decision and believes Simpson is guilty because he is not looking for the real killer like he promised he would. Right, so who are all these people thinking that maybe it could be? I think it's exactly what Carrie Best said, that she believed 90% of the jury actually decided to acquit Simpson as payback for Rodney King. And you know what sucks? It's that there wasn't justice for Rodney King, there wasn't justice for Nicole Brown Simpson, and there wasn't justice for Ron Goldman.

Like, no one won here. Yeah, like, no one won. And there has been no other suspects. He can't ever be tried. It's like double jeopardy. You can't be tried for the same case. But...

You can in like a civil suit. So after the trial, Ron Goldman's father and Nicole Brown's family filed a civil suit against OJ on February 4th, 1997. The jury unanimously found OJ responsible for the deaths of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown. And the Goldman family was awarded compensation and punitive damages totaling $33.5 million, which calculator is,

Wait, so he...

So I still don't really understand the civil suit. So I guess there's like a federal court. Okay. And then there's like a civil court. So I guess they sued him. So like, because you did kill her, give us some money and him. So then it's like a different kind of trial, I guess, or something. Oh my God. Because it's like, let's run the DNA evidence again while we all had time, but you can't be tried for the same crime in the same court system. Have you ever seen the movie Double Jeopardy? No. With what's her face? Oh my God.

my god everyone's gonna kill me i don't even know the movie ashley judd oh okay great movie you should watch it and it's like about something like this it's kind of crazy that we can't do that because she knows it's like she's like trying to get revenge on her husband and she knows that she's already been charged for something so she's like now i can like kill him essentially oh my god yeah it's a perfect movie as a follow-up for this i would say truly everyone go watch it well i will say the

good thing that came out of this is that the strong public reaction to Nicole Brown's letters and statements describing her abuse spurred passage of the Violence Against Women Act in 1994. Well, thank God. Yeah. Because again, this domestic violence was a very private matter and wasn't looked at as a public matter. In 2000, Simpson left California for Florida, one of the few states where personal assets such as homes and pensions cannot be seized to cover liabilities that were incurred in other states.

So he went to Florida so he wouldn't have to pay, like he wouldn't have to give up his home and stuff like that to pay off. Coward. Coward. He's such a coward. Ron Goldman's family is like, I will never say his name again because it's so disgusting. Literally. Literally.

In 2007, OJ Simpson led a group of men into a Las Vegas hotel and casino to steal what he claims were his own sports memorabilia items at gunpoint. OJ Simpson was charged with felonies including kidnapping and armed robbery. He was found guilty in the Bosch robbery in 2008.

and sentenced up to 33 years in prison. After nine years behind bars, he was granted parole in 2017. Now 73, OJ Simpson is living in Las Vegas. He is active on Twitter and TikTok, posting videos with his thoughts on politics and football. He has always maintained his innocence in the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman.

And that is the trial of the century. Damn, Claire. First of all, I'm very impressed that you did that whole thing in an hour and ten minutes. Did I do it in an hour and ten minutes? Yes. I was like, this is an hour and a half episode. Oh my God, no. Guys, I'm getting better and better. But you were so well-researched and concise and knowledgeable. And kudos to you, because that's not an easy thing to also...

talk about, give your own feelings about. So like, I'm very impressed. Thank you guys. And I apologize for anything that I mispronounced. No, that you did a really great job. And I never, I never knew a lot of this stuff. Same. It's great because it happened when it did. Yeah. Yeah.

and it's just crazy to see public reaction. Like so many people have had more space from it. I think Robert Kardashian, when he started seeing all the DNA evidence and seeing how accurate DNA was, I think that's when he started being like, he did it. It's like, Oh, also we didn't even get to, I'll just say real quick. The defense at one time tried to pin this all on Faye Resnick. I was literally like, get to the thing.

the favorites of it all. They're like, she did it. Literally. They were like, she has a cocaine problem. Wow. Didn't she? She did. She had to go to rehab for cocaine. And so they said they were trying to say that Mezzaluna, that restaurant that Ronald Goldman worked at was like, had a cocaine ring in it. It was like, you can't prove that at all. And so she killed her. Um,

No, so that, like, her drug dealers killed her. But the reason why Camille Grammer calls Faye Resnick, morally corrupts Faye Resnick... Talk about it. One is that she posed for Playboy, which, if I was murdered, you're totally welcome to pose for Playboy. I appreciate you saying that, but, you know, I don't think that would be the first thing that would cross my mind. Right. So, A. B, it was this tell-all book that she did in which she revealed that...

her and Nicole were very into cocaine. She revealed that they had a lesbian love affair and she revealed that Nicole had had six abortions. That is, it's pretty disgusting. So fucked up. Oh God, I take everything back of what I've said about our girls. Girl, we hope that she's grown because our experience with her was nothing but lovely and her and Nicole were best friends. Why would she do that? She said she did it to shed a light on domestic violence and

Because I think she did talk about the abuse. It's in very poor taste, though, Faye. That is truly not her story to tell. So recent. Especially like, I mean, if you're like, hey, we hooked up a couple times. Sure. But like the abortions. All of it. That's not. And the cocaine. It's really tough.

They had to, like, stop the trial for a second because the book came out and it was saying all this stuff and, like... So she was offered, like, a substantial... I'm sure she made a lot of money off of that Playboy article and off that book. So they were hooking up. Apparently. Allegedly. Allegedly. Again, like, Nicole's not even here to tell. No. No.

So where does, speaking of housewives to wrap this up, where does Catherine Edwards come in and all of this? Oh, I forgot. Didn't she date OJ? I thought she, uh, if you guys don't remember, because why would you, she was a blip on the real housewives of Beverly Hills seven, I want to say maybe or eight that she comes on and people are like,

Kyle is really weird and Faye is really mean to her. It's crazy. I mean, it's just crazy the way that Kris Jenner, like Kim Kardashian has talked about that she would go over like to Rob's house and be like, well, my dad is on his team. Obviously he didn't do it, but like they were, they, he pulled Robert Kardashian, pulled them out of school one time and took them to trial. And Kris walked in the courtroom and her daughters are sitting on the other side, right behind OJ. And you know, that man murdered your best friend.

Oh my God. And like trying to explain to, I mean, how young were they? They were like 14. Kim and Courtney were like 14. So old enough to know something's happening. Yeah. And like kind of understand it. But God, the conversation too, to like have it with a 14 year old, not only about like, oh, someone that you know was murdered by someone that we call uncle OJ. Also like OJ is Courtney's godfather.

Still. I'm sure you can undo that. But then also having to talk to your kids about like what domestic violence, you know, and just like the shame too in the nineties about it. Like it's just everything. Oh my God. Came to a head with this trial. It's wild. So I don't know what to say. It's very disappointing. It's very disappointing. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's, you know, the timing was very bad. The timing was very bad. It was very bad. And there's like no good timing for that ever to happen. Exactly. Yeah. There's never, never the right time, but this could maybe be the worst time where we all know now, I think what you said of like, people see what they want to see is like the perfect way to sort of conclude like what happened here. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, you guys asked for it and we gave it to you. Jesus Christ. What a way to end sports month. My God. Happy sports month. Go play some football, kids. That's what you get when you ask us. You didn't even ask us. I mean, truly. When we imply we're doing this. Yeah. I mean, hey, I don't know if we'll ever do a sports month again. Yeah. But we tried it out. I mean, I think you guys have liked it. Yeah. Why not?

And if you like this episode and you're still here, please follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Right Answers Mostly. Please give us a five-star review and subscribe on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Yes. We're also, this whole video will be on YouTube. So if you want to see our crazy animated expression. Literally.

And the way we sit. Yeah. I mean, I'm just like hunched over. Same. I need to work on the posture. I'm going to look like Quasimodo. Same. But check it all out. And thank you guys for always being the best. Always being the best. We love you. We love you so much. Goodbye. Goodbye. Oh.