The Chicks Are Our Heroes!
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If you mess around with my friend, I know what to do. I will poison your black eyed peas and shove you in a trunk. Welcome back to another episode of Right Answers Mostly, a podcast on what you didn't learn in history class but wanted to. My name is Claire Donald. My name is Tess Belomo. Hi, Tess. It's good to see you again.

again. You know what? It's good to see you too, Claire. I feel like I guess I have seen you since you got back from outside of Lance, but it was in like a trivia days. We were, the levels of stress were high. They were. Just because dogs were around us, jumping on us, barking. Which is usually the most calming experience. Of course, but sometimes combined with, you know. Scoring. Scoring a job. The Excel. I mean, I couldn't even do one thing on Excel. I had to give it all to you. Well, and I had to call our friend Allison. Yeah.

Being like, how do you sort columns? What is Excel? What I remember, I will never forget my sister being like, let me teach you. And I was like, I'm never going to have to use this. And I understand that that was maybe one thing I regret from school. But it does feel like we haven't seen each other for ages. Ages and ages. But we're making up for lost time now. We are. We're going to hang out tonight. We're going to hang out this weekend. Yes, of course. How was Outside Lands? Outside Lands was so fun. It is just like...

I'm going to go so bad. It's a magical forest full of people that are so kind. Ugh. Like, I always leave feeling a little bit better about humanity after Outside Lands. That's a great way to leave. And I do know it's because every single person on that festival is on some sort of drug that makes you very...

Very nice. Her serotonin is shooting through the roof at that moment. Everyone is as happy as a clam, you could say. We love that, though. But you just look over at someone when you're dancing, and they'll just grab your hand for a second and just smile. And then like... Community. It's just such a community. It's so chill. It's cold. It's cozy. I can't believe how cold it was in San Francisco. But you're hot because you're dancing the whole time, but you're not overly hot. That place is magic. It is magic. So I had a great time. I felt really down in the dumps until about...

Wednesday. We're getting back to it. That was yesterday. But we knew. We knew. We planned it out on schedule. Exactly. We literally Google calendared Tess will be depressed Monday through Wednesday. Yes. I told Claire I had to not be able to do some things because of the depression. Yeah, right. I just spilled water all over me. All over my outfit. Claire's wearing the hottest bandana tube top. Check it out. We are on YouTube right now. Check out her full video. So Natalie Maines in the Goodbye Earl video, it's an homage to her.

Oh, God. Amazon. But like I said, I ordered red and they sent me orange Amazon. Yeah, but orange is your color. Wow. I'm going to say it. Thank you so much. I'm going to say it. Yeah, but a bandana top I was texting with Emma and my friend Morgan, who I'm dedicating this episode to because we listened to the chicks growing up all the time. And we were sending each other bandana tops back and forth. Like...

Shall we bring it back? We have to bring it back, Claire. Also, your wrist, like your thick wrist bracelet, really hot. Well, so it was a choker. But Alice, I sent a picture of this outfit originally and she went, you need a chunky bracelet. And so I added this.

Alice, always bringing it home. Yes, thank you for styling me, Alice. Well, before we get started, what are your life updates? What the hell has been going on? My birthday's this week. Oh my God, yes. I am back. I am looking at the calendar in my head. It will. You know, not to make it all about me, but hey. It is...

We are going to make it all about you. Guys, Claire's birthday is on the 23rd. She is our Virgo baby. Cuspy Virgo baby. The first day of Virgo. Of course. I wish I was Leo. I know. You've always had a conflicting identity with it. Some things used to say I was Leo, but in fact, I am a Virgo. Those early 2000s quizzes, they didn't know what they were saying to us. That's true. But everyone wished Claire a happy birthday.

Happy, happy birthday on Wednesday, right? Because this will be Monday. Yep, on Wednesday. And we have some fun things planned for this birthday, girl. I know. Tess and the gals have something planned this weekend, and I have no idea what it is. And also the updates that you've been like, we just locked in another surprise. I'm like, what the fuck is happening? I think I know what you think it is, and it's not that. I think that we're going to go have martinis with Kris Jenner. I'm just kidding.

I'm like, fuck, this is not going to be a good. I wish. Oh my God. No, I totally know that's not what it is. We'll save that for Ram. Of course. Of course. And one year we will. And when we were 30th birthday, let's manifest that. Perfect. Perfect. Um, but yeah, I think, I think you think it's something I can't wait. And it's different. And it's, it's out of all of our comfort zones, I think in a way. I'm like, oh my God, are we going rock climbing? Yeah.

I'm like, we're going camping, not glamping. I know that you would never do that to us. I would literally never do such a thing. Literally never. No, no, don't you worry. It's going to be really fun and like very you. Oh my God. But we've never done it before. Oh my God. And we've done a lot. That's why I'm like, what have we not done? We have done a lot of things in this town. Yeah, we sure. In this town. In this town. I can't wait. Oh,

I know. But it will be fun. Yes, our Virgo baby. So we are... So this will be our second to last episode. I know. We have one more episode of Women in Music Month, but I am very excited for this episode today. This... You've been talking about this for...

Two years about doing this episode. Yes. I think I first got the idea of, like, I would love to cover something like this when I listened to, of course, our older sister. You're wrong about... She never... She never lets us down. No. They did a phenomenal episode on this. And I've been listening to the chicks since...

since I was, I mean, I think their first album came out in 98. So it's like since I was four and I've been obsessed with them. And so like here, their story be played out. I was like, it must be told on Ram. Of course. And I listened to about maybe half of the, you're wrong about episode. But then I realized like,

I think this was around the time when you were like, I kind of want to do them at some point. And so I stopped listening. So I got to a certain point and then really don't know much after that. And so I'm kind of going in knowing like a couple things, but being pretty...

Well, it was so fun. It's like, obviously I listened to that episode, but like I watched their documentary, shut up and saying, which is like not the most informative, but it's mainly just like hanging out with them. And I will take that any day. What platform? Um, I rented it on Amazon. Gorgeous. Yeah. It's like two 99, something like that. I mean, Hey, it reminds me of blockbuster.

Check out our Blockbuster episode. We love to rent a movie sometimes. We do. We do. It's a thrill. Because you're like, I only have 24 hours. It is. The stakes are high. You can't waste any time. But we also saw the chicks together. We did. We saw them last year. Last, yeah, last fall. Last August. At the Greek.

Yes, and I love the... I just saw Noah at the Greek, and, like, the setting is gorgeous. The sound is so bad at the Greek. Was the sound also, like, quiet for Noah? Yes, and we were even close, and I could, like, lean over and talk to Corey, like, in this voice like this. I think it's because the Greek is in a neighborhood that they can't... Like, I want my eardrums to be blasted. I think they have a lot of, like...

city ordinance regulations. Because they also have to end right at 10, right? I think so, too. That's intense. And it's sad because that was my only thing. I saw the chicks at the Hollywood Bowl also and that show was incredible. And then the Greek, I was like, it's so quiet. I know. And I love the Hollywood Bowl

but if you don't have good seats, it is so uncomfortable. Yeah. I feel like I'm almost like too old to go there in the back. I know. Right. It's crazy. It's crazy. But, um, any other thoughts, anything else you know or don't know about the chicks? Um,

I have always loved their music. And like, especially back in the day, I used to be like, I really hate country, but there's a few people I like. And it's the chicks. It's Casey Musgraves and Shania Twain. So those are like always my three that I was like, these girls have like gotten me through it. They are queens. They are queens. Easy Silence got me through the early, early pandemic. We'll just play it on repeat. And Juliana Calm Down.

I can't. I cannot. No, God. Yeah, so I'm already upset. I'm already in rage. I think this episode is going to trigger everything I actually care about in this world. This episode is like, are we all ready to ignite our feminine rage?

I'm ready. I'm like, should I grab a pillow to scream into? Possibly. Possibly. But okay. Oh, God. Shall we begin? I am sweating. Honestly, guys, I had so many sources. I'm just going to put them in our show notes, but I definitely want to give them credit. So if you want to see where I got my information out from, scroll on down. And while you're on your phone, why don't you go ahead and subscribe to us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

Give us five stars. Give us a rating and a review if it's kind. And we love you for it. If it's not kind, send us a DM and we will take that feedback. Exactly. Exactly. Even right now, I'm about to take a sip, but I'm doing away from the mic. That's right. Because we learned from what Hillary Clinton said, take criticism seriously, but not personally.

So. We love our queen. We do. Okay. So, like, one of the reasons I also just want to give a shout out that I love a trio. Like, give me a three-part harmony. Like, Boy Genius, Haim, Destiny's Child, Moona. Like, obsessed. I mean, there's nothing more beautiful than harmony. There is nothing more beautiful. Done well. Exactly. To be clear. Yeah. To be very clear. So, and I think the chicks do a three-part harmony better than anyone, really. I agree. So.

The Chicks were founded as the Dixie Chicks in 1989. So they go way back. 1989. Hey. This isn't the first time we're going to mention, or this isn't the last time we'll be mentioning Taylor in this episode. It all goes back to Taylor, whether you like it or not. It does. It is true. It is true. There were four of them at the time, and a woman named Robin Macy started the group, and she was a schoolteacher. Oh.

Oh. But she just loved to play bluegrass. And she meets these, and she's in her early 30s, and she meets these sisters, Marty and Emily, now Marty McGuire and Emily Strayer. And they were just at a jam sesh, and Marty was a freshman at SMU, and she mainly played the fiddle. And growing up, she was in all these fiddle competitions and crushing it in Texas. The fiddle is a tough game.

A tough hang sometimes. The fiddle, when played well, is the most beautiful instrument. Oh, wait. What am I thinking of? Same thing as a violin, just played in a different way, I think. What did we play in music class growing up that was... That's a recorder. Okay. God, I'm so sorry. I was thinking of a recorder. She's like playing hot cross buns across the state of Texas.

I was like, everyone has their own passion. Like, that was truly cruel that the school did that to our parents. It could have been anything else. It's just because it's the cheapest thing to get, right? Totally. But God bless those music teachers. Can you imagine being a music teacher hungover during recorder week? I'd be like, we're all going to play a little game called, we're not going to play our instruments today.

No. So, Marty played the fiddle. And she was at SMU. So, younger than Robin in her early 30s. And her sister, Emily, was just a high school sophomore. But she played pretty much all the other instruments. The banjo, the violin, the bass, rhythm guitar, like everything. Good God.

Can you imagine? No. This is genius. Genius. The top genius, I think, in the world are people that can play every instrument and not even have to think about it. I agree. Like your brain. Couldn't agree more. And so Robin was like at a jam session with them and she was like, oh shit, these kids can play. Why don't we make a band? And I'm going to invite in this woman named Laura Lynch and she's going to play the bassist. And Laura was a single mom. So Robin and Laura split the vocals.

Playing with, like, high schoolers. But, hey. He was like, hey, you want to jam? Exactly. When you can jam, you jam. Literally. The band name, the Dixie Chicks, was taken from the album Dixie Chicken by Lowell George of Little Feet, which I'm sorry, Lowell George, but I'm unfamiliar with your work. I also do not recall. Or the album Dixie Chicken. No. However interesting.

In 2020, the band changed their names. They dropped Dixie. They were like, we chose that name as teenagers. They didn't realize it had connotations of slavery. They thought it was just like a region, the Mason-Dixon. And once they really found out what it meant, they were like, fuck that. We love our evolving queens. We love people that can be like, hey, we messed up. And we're sorry. We need to do better. Exactly. And that's what they said. They're like, we always want to be on the right side of history, which they are.

So, the original Dixie Chicks, their sounds were very classic bluegrass. They dressed in fringe skirts, western shirts, like cowgirl hats, very old school. Love. Love. And they were so old school bluegrass, which I love. Bluegrass is so good. Stunning. But it's not mainstream.

Hard to make a lot of money from it. So country people were like, this is gross. No, country people were like, we love. Oh, so country people like it. Yeah, mainstream people just on the street were like, eh. Well, they started as street performers, actually, in Dallas. They literally played on street corners. Oh, wow. Which is like, they had this huge bass thing. Like...

He's like four women. What a sight. What a sight. And then they move up, you know, it's clubs and coffee shops. And then finally to the studio, their first record was Thank Heavens for Dale Evans. And it comes out in 1990. And by the time they released their next record, Little Cowgirl in 1992, they were one of the biggest bands in Dallas. And they were really building up a following within Texas.

Texas forever. Texas forever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That applies here. For now. No. Yeah. For now. Yeah. For now. For always. Okay. We'll talk. Okay. But okay. So as they're growing, tensions are starting to form because Marty and Emily are growing older and they're like, we want more. Like we want to, we're hitting a ceiling right now and we want to be stars. And Robin who started the band is like, but isn't this enough? Yeah.

A tale as old as time. A tale as old as time. And Robin is also like, I am a pure bluegrass person and I will never change. And Marty and Emily are like, I think we need to kind of modernize. And Robin's like, no, I'm not doing it. So Robin has to go.

And Robin leaves. The woman who started the band leaves. God, it's tough because, like, no one's wrong. I know. It's just, like, different journeys, different paths. Exactly. Ugh, to be Robin now, you know? Oh, my God. How are you, Robin? Did they have, like, I'm always, like, legally. Does she get something, like? No. I don't think so. You have to, like, completely. I think she was, like, it was such a different band at this point. Yeah.

So, Robin has to go. And it was at this time that their steel guitarist, which I love the steel guitar. I think that's one of my favorite instruments of all time. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. Lloyd Maines was like, my daughter Natalie is an amazing singer. So, Lloyd had Natalie's audition demo tape, which had won her a full scholarship to Berklee College of Music. Such a good school. That is like the school to go to. That's where Marta went. Oh, my God.

Yeah. I know there's like those music kids. Wild. We, um, Alice and I have a friend who went there and we visited him one summer and we were just looking around and like, we went to his apartment and all of them were just playing music the entire time on a Saturday. That would actually drive me crazy. I think I was like, we get it. Okay. Get it.

You're good at music. Yeah. But so he gives it to Emily and Marty and was like, check it out. See if you like it. So they keep this in their back pocket. But while this is happening, they're like, Laura, you're going to be the lead singer now. So you're up. Damn. And let's see. Major record labels, though, even though they're growing in popularity, they were like, I don't know if we can take a risk on an all-female group.

So, well, they're probably like, we can't get money from this because no one wants to listen to three women. Isn't that crazy? It is so upsetting, but it doesn't surprise me. It's like a single tear is falling down. Truly. But they do get a manager, Simon Renshaw, and he helps them actually get a developmental deal with Sony Records Nashville division. So they finally have a bit of a break.

They cut some demos with Sony and they're like, listen, Sony is like, you need something young. You need something fresh. And your lead singer is not it. Tough, tough, tough to hear. Which also like Laura was never supposed to be the lead singer. Robin always was because she wasn't like a star. I just don't think her voice was like radio potential. Right. You know, was there one that was like sex appeal?

Or no. Is that why the record label was like, you guys aren't like sexy? Yeah. I guess it probably was all of the above. I mean, Marty and Emily were very hot or are very hot. Yeah. So maybe, I don't know. It is also interesting that like they're building the band around these two sisters who are mainly just instruments and harmonies and not the lead singer, you know? Yeah. And Emily were like, we should listen to Lloyd's daughter's demo tape. And they do. And then they're like, oh, yeah.

damn, let's try Natalie out. And it was like right away, this is it. This is a fit. Natalie was just 21 years old. She was funny, brash. She brought this irresistible like sass to the group. She was spicy. We love that. Love that. Love a spicy lady. It loves it. And this is, I love this piece from Time Magazine. Quote, Natalie Maines is one of those people born middle finger, middle finger. So sorry. Let me take that back.

Natalie Maines is one of those people born middle finger first. As a high school senior in Lubbock, Texas, she skipped a class a day in an attempt to prove that because she never got caught, and some Mexican students did, the system was racist.

So, like, from the beginning. She knew what was up. She knew what was up. God. Yeah. Jesus. Like, we love that spirit. We do love that. Because it was hard to come by in the 90s. Or whenever she was in high school. I mean, she was probably in high school. Yeah, in, like, the early 90s. That's amazing. I know. But that's such Gen X spirit, though, too, isn't it? It really is. It's like, fuck you. Yeah. And now, like, millennials are scared to say anything to hurt anyone's feelings. Literally.

Yeah, Gen X has to get to the mandiosis and we love it. So they're like, hey, Natalie, do you want to join this band that's already been around for a while? And by the way, you have to learn 22 songs in seven days. Yeah. And also, Laura, you're out. Yeah.

Laura's like, it's cool. It's like, that's fine. I have a daughter at home. Yeah, sure. To survive. Yeah. So Laura's out and Natalie is in. But Natalie's also like, all right, ladies, we got to modernize this. Like, we've got to be done with the fringe skirts and the cowboy hats. Like, let's

cool it on the yodeling a little bit and let's make this shit fun. Oh my God. She just comes in and she's like, Hey guys, I'll do it. But like we got to do it. Literally. And everyone's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Whatever you want. Um, so three weeks later they officially signed with Sony and this is what we see the chicks as today. God damn. I know they made shit happen.

When they signed with Sony, they had it written in their contract that they would play their own instruments, which wasn't a given. And especially in the country community, they fought really hard to be the ones to play their banjos and their fiddles. What's the even point then if they wouldn't be the ones doing that?

but they're like, you're women. Yeah. So we are wearing. Yeah, exactly. And they also fought really hard to preserve their sound. When a producer said that they would have to remove the banjo and fiddle for radio edits. Well,

Why is everyone so against the banjo? The banjo is one of my, it's banjo, fiddle, mandolin, and steel guitar are my favorite instruments. Banjo's an underdog. A hundred percent under, it's like one of the hardest instruments to play, I believe. I mean, literally. It is gorgeous. Add a banjo to any song, it makes it better. That's how I feel about a trumpet. Oh, a trumpet is awesome. You know I love a trumpet. Same drugs? Ugh.

The horns. Take me there. Exactly. So the Texas Monthly article about the chicks said, quote, their image was equal parts strong-willed big sister, freewheeling college dorm mate, and the potty-mouthed flirty girl at the end of the bar. A combination that drew country fans of both sexes and all ages and then soaked up more listeners from outside the genre. Their appeal was infectious. Which is... They are just...

When you go watch their music videos and watch their performances, they're all having so much fun together. Yeah, that's an interesting review because it is so, like, they're three women, so how can we stereotype them exactly of these, like, tropes that we see? Like, they're not really talking about the music? That is also true. But I do think about their spirit. They do capture that quite well. Totally. Like, again, on country music, a lot of women are, like,

more clean cut stuff and the Dixie chicks came in or the chicks sorry and they were like yeah no no that is fair that is fair sorry I don't know what that just came out do it again remix it beginning

I need to cut that. Okay, so they released a single, "I Can Love You Better" on October 1997. It's gonna be so hard not to sing all of this. And it tops the charts immediately. And then their debut album, "Wide Open Spaces" was released on January 23rd, 1998. Jesus Christ. That song...

Already, also, like, with that song, I feel like that spoke to so many girls and women who had, like, had that feeling of just wanting to get out. Oh, God, I have the chills already. It's such a beautiful song. I love that song. Oh. In 1998, the Chicks sold more CDs than all other country music groups combined. So were they, like, rich at this point? Or was it a slow burn? It was a slow burn. And we'll talk about why. Oh, God. Yep. Wasn't by their accord that it was a slow burn. Yeah.

They're also charting on the pop radio, which I think just shows how desperate the market was for a badass, talented group of females. This is what happens every time when we're like, hey, you guys want to help the economy? Such as Barbie. Create a movie because women have been craving to see it and then it makes a billion dollars. We've already said this, but this is the summer of the girly girls. We are fueling the economy. And we can't help

the economy if people will give us what we are asking for. Exactly. But that's the whole thing. Like, our economy, if we had equal rights, would be flourishing. And there it is, Claire. That's for a different time. That's for a different episode. I mean, maybe not. I mean, it's all... It's all connected. That's so true. Um,

They win the Grammy for Best Country Album and Best Country Performance by a group. Wow. And they also become the first country headliners of the Lilith Fair. Do you know the Lilith Fair? I'm not familiar. I wasn't either. But you know how I feel about fairs. Well, it's actually a music festival. I think it's cool. Oh, of course. Like, whenever you go back to Arkansas and you're going to some sort of fair, I just see Claire, like, prom queen, like, riding a wagon. Yeah.

And I'm just like, cool. And in the reality, it's like carnies with cigarettes, like missing teeth. But that's what we love, too. I picture it in the 40s. Of course. Yeah. You know. We'll let you live in that life. I want to. Yeah. And we'll let you. Thank you. So actually, the Lilith Fair, it was an all-female music festival that was started by Sarah McLaughlin.

McLaughlin. I love Sarah McLaughlin. Me too. I'm an angel. Memories. Memories. It's gorgeous. So she had been told by music and concert industry executives that putting more than one woman back to back on a lineup or radio playlist wouldn't sell. So she was like, oh, really? Really? And so she started an all-woman music festival to prove them wrong. You know who played? Who? Thin to go girls.

Take us there. Please take us there. Why does it exist anymore? I don't know, actually. That's a good question. I feel like now that kind of thing would be so popular. Sarah McLaughlin, if you're listening to us, bring it back. Bring it back. Like we could take our moms. Oh my God. It would be a dream. We would love to be a part of it. We'll do, we'll,

Anything. Give us a mic. Please. We'll do a live show. Truly. For the Lilith Fair. I can't say Lilith. It's really hard. I don't even want to try. It's really hard. But so the chicks were the first country headliner for it. And they get a lot of criticism for playing a pop festival from the country community. And we see this time and time again. The country community does not like it when you start to go... Taylor, Casey, Dolly, Shania. Like literally...

Why? Like, I think they think, oh, you think you're better than us? Like... And you only think that if you're insecure to begin with. Oh, 100%. And I just had... I wrote down the Dolly Parton quote that we talked about in our Dolly episode when she went pop. And she said, I'm not leaving country music. I'm taking it with me. I'm not going to limit myself just because people want to accept the fact that I can do something else. Our queen...

But also, like we talked about in the Cher episode, like, you have to, as a female artist, as a female entrepreneur, you always have to be evolving. Or else people are like, fuck you, you're boring, you're staying in your lane. But then when you evolve, you make them uncomfortable. You just can't win. No, you can't. So just do whatever the fuck you want. That is the moral, ladies listening. Just do it. Just do it. So they released their second album, Fly, in 1999. Oh, God.

I love it. It's like, it's hard for me to pick a favorite chicks album because they're all so good. It debuted at number one on the billboard, 200 charts, selling over 10 million copies and making the chicks the only country band and the only female band of any genre to have two back-to-back certified diamond albums. They're crushing. I think I forget how massive they were. Same. I'm always like, Oh, they're in like for a certain person, they were big, but it's like,

They were globally? They were globally. Huge? Huge. And they already, like, they had songs, again, that I think are, like, progressive songs, especially in country music, like, Ready to Run, which is about a woman who's like, I am not going to be tied down by love, and I'm going to get out of here if someone wants to tie me down, you know? Were they, like, open? Were they asked a lot about their relationships? Yes.

I don't know, actually. Or, like, how, like, private were their private lives. I think it was so different for celebrity back then. Like, there were, like, magazines and stuff, but I don't even think celebrity culture was, like, different. Of course, everyone wanted to know. Yeah. But I don't know, actually. Are they all straight? Mm-hmm. For some reason, I thought a couple of them were lesbians. No. I mean, who knows? Yeah, yeah. But they are, like, publicly straight. Oh, okay. Yeah. And Let Him Fly is on that album.

It's written by Patti Griffin, which she is everything to me. And they covered a lot of her songs. But Let Them Fly is not only covered by the chicks. It is also covered by our queen, Jessica Simpson. And you guys have to, you guys. Right now. Pause for just a second and then come back to us.

Go watch her cover of Let Him Fly. She starts crying. It's MTV Unplugged, right? And Claire and I watched this when we were children. And we were like, oh my God, it's right after her Nick Lachey divorce. She is crying thinking about him because she at one point has to put down... She falls back. Oh, she's sitting on the stage and she falls back and then she gets back up and she goes, oh Lord. And the audience is like...

sobbing all these like 16 year old girls we were at home we were and then in her book you find out oh it's not about Nick Lachey it's not and we won't tell you what it's about because you should go read her book DM us right now and be like holy shit I can't believe it's about this person exactly go read it so let them fly God we love queens with that

song. However, a few of their songs brought controversy within the conservative country music fan base. Here we go. And two songs caused some radio stations in the beginning already to remove the Dixie Chicks from their playlist. Sin Wagon, which is so good. Talk about some major banjo and fiddle. Because there's a line that says, do a little mattress dancing. That's right. I said mattress dancing. So they're like, sluts, sluts. The devil, whores, witches.

Which, it's such a good song. And then, there's Goodbye Earl. Cause Earl had to die. Na, na, na, na, na. Good.

Okay, this episode's going to be so long if I keep singing. But Goodbye Earl, if y'all don't know, is about these two friends, Marianne and Wanda. And they were the best of friends in high school. And one of them meets this guy, Earl, and he starts being physical with her. And so right away, Marianne flew in from Atlanta. And they decide that they're going to kill Earl. Sorry, I was going through the whole song again. Too bad.

Two thoughts, quickly. Yes, please. Your southern accent is really coming out in this episode, and you know I love it. Oh, God, I'm scared. It makes me love you anymore.

And secondly, do you remember that script that we wanted to write about kind of inspired by that song? No, I think we still have to write it. We need to. It's like nine to five. It's goodbye, Earl. Like it's all we we will write. We need to go back. We do. But like hearing that I was literally five years old in the car with Emma, like screaming this song like about like, if you mess around with my friend, I know what to do. I will poison your black eyed peas and shove you in a trunk. Fuck around and find out. I mean, yeah.

They were teaching us. Yes. Say no more. I mean, that's how we still feel today. That's exactly. It's just so funny. I think of little kids like singing this song. Yeah, just out the window. And I had to die. It's so perfect. Your mom up front just like, well. Literally, like. She has to find out somehow. One, I think my mom and Emma's mom were like, anything to keep them distracted.

This is better than the alternative. Anything. So please also go watch the music video for Goodbye Earl because it's so campy and it's so good. Love. I cannot wait just like tonight. Just watch all of these on YouTube. Oh, they're so good. So Fly wins the Grammy for the Best Country Album and the Chicks become the best selling female group in music history. All genres. That's crazy. Isn't it crazy?

Wow. With suspiciously little cash to show for it. Was it Sony's problem? Yep, Tess, it sure was. Was Sony like, we're taking 95%? Sony was doing very similar to what we saw in our NSYNC and Backstreet Boys episode. I am thinking it already. Go check it out. The chicks alleged that in at least 30 cases, Sony had used fraudulent accounting practices, underpaying them at least $430.

$4 million in royalties on their albums over the previous three years. $4 million. God, and that has to be split up three ways, too. This isn't like an individual artist. And I bet that they had to split it up within their band, too. And their agents, managers, lawyers, all of that shit. Yeah. Oh, my God. How much money do you think they were making? Well, they did an interview, and I forgot who the journalist was. And he was like, you guys must be rich. And she was like, literally, no.

I mean, this used to be such a thing. I think it's still kind of a thing. Well, I mean, the streaming services with artists now are just not kind. Like you have nice things, but you're not like cash rich. Yeah, it's like you owe us. It's crazy. That is dark. It is.

indentured servants. It's crazy. So Sony held out. They were like, well, we're not going to pay you. But the chicks didn't hesitate to openly escalate this whole thing. They were like, oh, you don't want to pay us? We declare ourselves free agents, even though they were on a six album contract.

And they made a show of meeting with other labels potentially interested in signing them even though they were supposed to record three more albums. And Sonny's like, no, no, you can't do that. They're like, well, yeah, now you're a little scared. So Sonny sues them because they're meeting with other record labels.

To which they countersue for $4.1 million, joining an array of pop and rock stars like Courtney Love and Leigh-Anne Rimes, who are all fighting the system right now because the record companies were stealing from everyone. Oh my God, Leigh-Anne Rimes. I always forget that she was like a big thing. It all goes back to Bravo. It all goes back to Bravo. If you are not watching Real Housewives of Beverly Hills or Vanderpump. Truly. That would be Brandy. Yeah.

Granville's ex-husband's new wife who he had a care with. Sorry, I just stepped all over you. No, I stepped all over you. When it comes to housewives. We stepped over each other, willingly. That's okay. Sony ends up caving, and the Chicks were awarded their own record label imprint, Open Wide Records, which gave them more control, a better contract, increase in royalty money. But Sony is still responsible for marketing and distribution of their albums. However, the Chicks write...

We don't want to work with the Nashville office anymore. We only want to work with the New York office. Sorry, my eye just... Are you seeing it? Is it twitching? It's crazy twitching. Is it on the top? It's like on the side.

It means you're dehydrated. Oh, I definitely am. Have some more mule. Just have some more Moscow mule. That's how that works. Have some June Shine vodka mule. Shout out. Shout out. I'm having whiskey on the rocks. Love. So because they go work with the New York office, that creates even more of a riff with the country community. Because again, they're like, they're being uppity and they're difficult to work with because they're asking for what they're owed.

Yeah. Deep South doesn't like New York, huh? No. But also, I feel like that's even universal of any women in business. It's like, yeah, it's like, oh, now you're a big shot. It's like they're just trying to get what they are owed. You wouldn't get that money if it wasn't for me. Yeah, it's very upsetting. It is. But in this Guardian article...

They said the chicks wanted their young female fans to see them taking up for themselves and that's why they did it so publicly. And it would inspire a nine-year-old Taylor Swift to learn how to play the guitar and get into country music. Taylor said, quote,

Let me take a deep breath. Okay. Oh, God. Okay. They showed me that women in country music could play their own instruments, make their own creative choices, and dictate their own artistic departures. That they could be stoic, angry, daydreamy, romantic, ferocious, prideful, and sorrowful. And that complexity was nothing to apologize for.

I have full body chills. Gorgeous. I love that complexity is nothing to apologize for. Oh my God. Oh my God.

I know. I got to take that in for a second. I know. And I just love it. That's the thing. They were all of these things. And you can be, and that doesn't make you any less of a woman. Nope. That is human nature. Doesn't make you less of an artist. Literally. That is beautiful. It is beautiful. So while this legal battle is playing out, they're all like nesting in Texas, starting their own families. And then they're like, let's make another album.

And for this album, they're like, let's go back to our bluegrass roots. And now we don't really have to worry about these labels or big producers. Let's do whatever we want. In fact, let's produce this album by ourselves. And they bring on Natalie Stath Lloyd.

So it's just the four of them producing this album. What year is this? This is 2000. They released their album home August 27th, 2002 Virgo season, Virgo season. And God is this album. That's what I'm like. What is my favorite album? This album is so good. What is it? That's true. Would you say what is it or what is it? What is, what is your favorite one? If you had to.

Maybe home. I don't know because then I'm like and then I listen to fly. I just don't know There's space for all of them. There is space for all of them. Um

But it wins Country Album of the Year. And Natalie Main said afterwards, I want to check the record books and see how many fathers and daughters have won Grammys together. Which is so sweet. That is very sweet. I think the chicks are up there of winning some of the most Grammys. I mean, it sounds like it. I know. Every time I'm like, and then they won this Grammy. God. They performed the National Anthem at the Super Bowl in 2003. Yeah.

Which we're gearing up. After three albums, they were the best-selling female group in history in any genre. They set a record for the most concert tickets sold at the time. They sell $49 million worth of concert tickets in one weekend. And, like, in the early 2000s. Were they selling, like, stadiums? Arenas. Yeah, yeah. Home was selling millions of albums. The songs were all over the country and pop radio. They had sold out Arena Tour, and in one day, they're off the air and fans are burning their records.

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I'm scared. Here we go. I'm scared that it's going to take a... I've been so happy. Yeah, me too, Tess. Me too. But hey, we'll get back there. That's true. But for now. Okay. Let's set the stage of 2002 to 2003. Oh, yeah. We are now in a post-9-11 world. And George Bush and his national security team tell the nation that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and that they were a security threat which required that we invade Iraq and take care of it.

Iraq, Iraq. I'm trying to say it the proper way. You can't say Iraq too. It's just more country, I think. Okay. Okay. So basically he's like, there's weapons of mass destruction. We got to go over there.

speculation in hindsight is that Bush was avenging his father's war because Bush senior did not go into Iraq, Iraq, sorry. Okay. I'll stop. Um, but should have, and he was criticized for that. And Bush jr. Wanted to rectify that. So he's like, God, make dad a proud. So he lies about why we are invading because he knows unless we tell people their weapons of mass destruction, they won't want to invade. Um,

Saddam Hussein was in power at that time and then his regime was toppled. And from my understanding, it's that we helped set up kind of a puppet government like we wanted to democracy build, but essentially to stabilize the entire region with that war and helped create a gap that ISIS has ended up filling in many ways. In hindsight for everyone, there were no weapons of mass destruction. We invaded an area that we had no business in and lied to everyone about it. And so many people died because of it.

Early 2000s were the just darkest times, like, politically in this country. It just felt so icky. And I'm so sorry to Emma and my Aunt Lynn that I texted you so much about the Iraq War. They're like, happy Friday. Right, but it's like, we were so young when this is happening, like, that we...

I feel like so many people in art, like millennials are not alone in this and being like, so wait, what happened? No. Cause I think we grew up with a very, whatever image we had of it. And like, for my image, it was like always like, fuck Bush. She's ruining everything. We come from the same background. This man is going to destroy the world. But like, but like why and what? And it goes back even further. I still, I'm like, wait, what even happened? I have had to, we'll talk after. Yeah. I don't want,

I don't want to say too much to sound like a complete fool, but same. I'll try to answer any questions you might have. But basically, also, we have seen your guys request to do 9-11 and we respectfully decline. Decline. It's just, yeah, no, we just can't. We just can't. So with that, yeah, pre invading Iraq, the president had a 71% approval rating and that never happens. That's crazy.

To put it into context right now, Biden has a 40% approval rating. Bush had 70%. 71%.

Who, what was like, how close was it between Gore and Bush? Oh, we have to do the 2000 election. Wasn't it like, wow. But our country just went through something crazy. And it's kind of like, I think he's, especially at that time, you like, you stand by your president, you know, which is crazy. I mean, yeah, that there's never been such toxic patriotism that we have seen. Shall we get into it? Yes. Patriotism in America pops off. And I'm like,

This is what ruined the American flag. It did. This is what made the American flag be like, oh, you are blank, blank, and blank. Exactly. Check out our YouTube because we are literally about to flip a table right now. And also, for our UK listeners, buckle up. You're going to think that we are insane. I mean, truly. Now the flag means that you are conservative and xenophobic. Exactly. So it happened during this time. So do you remember the Disney Channel sit-downs?

night with Canole. Stop. We watched the whole thing. Please describe it since you recently watched it. So after 9-11, especially for children, I think the Disney channel is trying to be like, look, we have to get the kids talking about this in a safe space. They had to get everyone talking about being proud to be an American. So Hilary Duff, because we all know her, she sits down, there's an interview, and then it's also a montage of her just waving the flag at intercuts throughout it, and Hilary's like,

Honestly, like, I have a family email going, and it's just been really nice to be like, hey, like, reach out to your loved ones. And also, like, I am proud to be an American. It's crazy. And you're like, wait, what? We're all just at home, like, with our snacks, just, like, blinking at the TV screen. That shit played everything.

Eight minutes on Disney Channel. Every eight minutes. It was just trying to be like, you have to love America. You have to. And Harry Duff loves America. You have to. So also, patriotism and censorship was that... Like, it was one of the most intense periods of censorship. Before the 20... Or before the 2003 Grammys, CBS sent an email to every single artist saying, you can't mention the war in your acceptance speech or we will immediately cut your mic off. Because if you have anything bad to say, we're cutting it off. Is that because, like...

They were scared that they'd lose sponsors. Like, it was like you're either on this side or that side or you like the other side. No, it was literally, it's like you are pro-America and pro-war or you are a traitor. That's what it was. You can't say anything bad about Bush or about the war.

CNN adopts an internal policy that anytime they talk about civilian deaths in Afghanistan, they always have to compare it to the number of civilian deaths in 9-11. So it's almost like those deaths don't matter because 9-11, there was even more, which is like so sick. How can you compare human life? Exactly, exactly.

So the UN is meeting about this, and a lot of America's allies were against this invasion and against this war. France in particular objected to it. So Representative Bob Ney, an Ohio Republican, ordered that at the Capitol cafeteria, the word French be removed from all affiliated menus. So French fries would become Freedom Fries, and French toast would become Freedom Fries.

I had blocked this out of my memory and now I am remembering this on menus. It is not okay. Like this is so crazy. This is insane. It's insane. People were getting arrested for going to anti-war protests. There was a man who was arrested for going to a mall wearing an anti-war t-shirt and

And hate crimes against Muslims rose 1,617% from 2000 to 2001. It was such a terrible time. Terrible time. Clear Channel Communications, which is now iHeartMedia, sent out a memo to stations around the country of lists of songs that hosts should consider avoiding. And it was, like, such a long list. Some that made the list mentioned if a song mentioned an airplane, if a song mentioned New York. Also, Imagine by John Lennon.

We just don't want to hear it. They're like, you cannot play that song. Can we pretend that airplane? They're like, that means you don't like this country. Go fuck yourself. See, they're too triggering. It's why gold? Look, it was a terrible thing that happened.

I still am like so shook by what happened after for like the next like 10 years. And it's still affecting us. I mean, about hate crime, like Muslim hate crimes. We still see that today because of 9-11. It's crazy. Like all of this is doing this research has just made me shake my head. Well, and then, you know, instead of those songs, they wanted it to be replaced by patriotic songs. And this is where we see that.

travesty that is bro country come into the mix. This is the introduction of bro country, which is, if you don't know, it's country music that talks about beer, America, trucks, like all that bullshit. Yep. And Toby Keith comes out with a song called Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue. Sing it. The Angry American. Well, I will say some of the lyrics. Do you know this song, Tess? You California angel. Probably not. Yeah. Well, prepare to get mad.

Okay, here we go. Oh, God. Justice will be served and the battle will rage. The big dog will fight when you rattle his cage. And you'll be sorry that you messed with the U.S. of A. Because we'll put a boot in your ass. It's the American way. So, that's America.

That's the American way. And that is now what people think of America. Yeah. And that is what is so sickening about this. It's like this was the prelude. Prelude? Is that before? Sure. To Trump. Yep. Exactly. We've been building this. We have been building this for time and time again. Like, oh, this is America. It's hatred. It is tacky. It's you don't fucking mess with us. It's just gross. It is. So Natalie Maine, pre-controversy to the, you know, the thing we're about to talk about.

had a little controversy with Toby Keith. When she was asked about this song, she says in a newspaper interview, quote, I hate it. It's ignorant. It makes country music sound ignorant. It targets an entire culture and not just the bad people who did bad things. You've got to have some tact. Anybody can write. We'll put a boot in your ass.

I love her. I love her. But isn't that sad? Because now when people... When you say, oh, I like country, people are like, ew, you don't have taste. It's like country music is actually lyrically really, like, originally very beautiful in storytelling and in depth. And now it's like, oh...

- You're tacking I hate you. - You're tacking I hate you. I just saw a TikTok actually recently that like outlaw country like Johnny Cash and like Willie Nelson is starting to come back in with like Tyler Childers and Sturgill Simpson and Jason Isabel and like bro country is starting to hopefully make its way out.

I had that connotation about country my entire life. Yep. And then country music can be so beautiful. Truly. Well, Toby Keith fires back and says, quote, she's not a songwriter. So we can't discuss the mechanics of the song. Why don't you just go down on Second Avenue and pick one of the homeless guys and ask him what he thinks about it? To me, it's the same. That's not the last we'll hear about Toby Keith. That's not the last. I didn't know Toby Keith was evil. Toby Keith and Natalie Maines have had beef. Is Toby the Keith the one that sings...

Finally got over that song of ours. I don't know what song you're singing. He's, um, should have been a cowboy. Right. Maybe that's not Toby Keith. God, I don't know that. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Come back to Toby. Don't worry. Gross though. Gross. Okay. So now it's March 10th, 2003, nine days before the invasion of Iraq.

The Dixie Chicks performed at the Shepherds Bush Empire Theater in London, England. Shout out to our UK, our Englanders. We love you guys more than you know. Englanders, is that what you call it? Yeah, sure. We do love you guys more than you know. It was the first concert of their Top of the World tour.

And on the footage of the doc, when I was watching it, Natalie Maines is checking in on war updates backstage, like getting ready for the show, being like, have they invaded? What are they doing? But also, they're like, it shows them being mothers and taking care of their kids while they're getting their hair and makeup done. It's just like the power of a woman. One of the biggest political rallies was going on in the UK

One of the biggest political rallies in UK history was happening. Perhaps as many as 1 million people gathered in London to march and denounce American plans for war. All right, Rammies, who's tired? Who needs a break? Whether you're taking care of your kids, you know we love our Rammie moms, a senior loved one, or juggling both, God bless, we all need and deserve a break sometimes. Care.com can help give you that break by helping you find trusted caregivers in your neighborhood.

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I don't think I realized how much the rest of the world was like, what? Like, you guys are fucking idiots. What are you doing? Yeah, I didn't realize that either. Yeah. I mean, I assume that some people are probably like, Bush is actual and like, he's an actual idiot. I know. What was the thing he couldn't say? I don't know. Considering this whole episode, I've been like, Iraq, Iraq. I like can't speak on it. No, he completely. But I'm also not the president of the United States. Well, there's that famous scene of him trying to open the door and he

I mean, the man is not wise. I know, but it seems innocent now compared to what we've gone through, doesn't it? Well, it's sad because now people are like, oh, he's a cute little man. And it's like, we cannot forget. We cannot forget, guys. What he did to innocent people. It's so true. So the chicks sing their song, Traveling Soldier. And then Natalie Maines then tells the audience, just so you know, we're on the good side with y'all. We do not want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas.

And that's all she said, guys. That is all she said. I have chills. And no one thought anything of it. The crowd cheers. Everyone at the show, after the show was like, that show is amazing. Great energy. Like, the chicks didn't even think anything of it. She kind of like laughs afterwards. Like, because it's kind of like, whatever. It's a throwaway comment. Also, you're allowed to say how you feel about bad behavior. Yep. Well, America finds out about the statement from a review of the concert in The Guardian. They reported Maine's comment and said that the audience cheered. The journalist wrote...

At a time when country stars are rushing to release pro-war anthems, this is practically punk rock. After Mains made her comment, another band member stepped forward on the stage and added, but you know, we're behind the troops 100%. But the second comment was not widely reported.

I've never heard that. Oh, they said that. She said that. It was another band member. So I don't know if that was Marnie or Emily or if it's that, but no one knows about that. That wasn't like picked up. Isn't that interesting how you kind of like have to, I feel like you have to say that in like American culture. It's like, we don't believe in this, but like we are with our troops. It's like, you also don't have to say that. But also they were in London and this Guardian article was like, it was amazing. It was punk rock.

But what got all this commotion started in America is that this right wing Internet group called the Free Republic picked it up and put it on their forum. And in a way that the world had not seen before, because it's 2003, the Internet is like still pretty baby. Yeah. They start organizing protests. They start posting telephone numbers of radio stations playing the chicks music. People demand that they get banned from playing on the radio.

It's just so crazy because it starts happening pretty fast, but they're also touring in Europe. The chicks are, so they kind of don't see what's happening in America yet. And Europe is like, we're so with you. It's so crazy thinking about this happening in 2003 because now a lot of conservative and Republican people are like, aren't we allowed to say what we want to say? And so the hypocrisy is actually like...

quite something. There was a man on the dock that said, freedom of speech is fine, but you don't do it in public. Sure, sweetie. Oh, okay. Okay. Shut up. Protesters used tractors to smash their CDs, and the Dixie Chick manager was...

Losery. Losery. I'm going to go get my tractor real quick. Get a hobby. That's actually get a hobby. We'll categorize that and get a hobby. This whole section, we are now in the get a hobby section. Oh, my God. And I apologize when I keep calling them the Dixie Chicks. It's the Chicks. I'm so sorry. No, yes. The Chicks manager, Simon Renshaw, noted that by contrast, the stations continued to play the music of Tracy Lawrence, who's a country singer, who had been convicted of spousal abuse in 1998. They kept playing him, but the Chicks...

But if you talk about, you know, the president of the United States and him declaring war. If you say that you're ashamed to be from Texas, that's literally all they said. So shall we listen to some quotes from what people were posting online? Guys, buckle up, buttercup. Here we go. All right. Here's that pillow. If you're near a pillow. Just go. Yeah. Okay. One posting on AOL from on AOL from a user who identified himself as Bill Russell said, quote,

What a sickening disgrace and a slap in the face to every military family in the country. My best wishes for that bitch traitor is that their sales go in the toilet and the public throws out their records and that lousy bitch never gets to sing in public again. And her ass gets shipped to Baghdad before the bomb falls. A little fatter target to hit. I grow so tired. So that's one. They should send Natalie over to Iraq, strap her to a bomb and just drop her over Baghdad.

They were dubbed traitors and Saddam's angels, the Dixie sluts. One columnist wrote, she might as well said that Osama bin Laden was her lover, which I'm like, what?

What? The right wing media picks this up and they have a heyday. Christopher Hitchens calls the chicks fucking fat slags. Bill O'Reilly says they're callow, foolish women who deserve to be slapped around. Patrick Bunchen. I don't even care if I'm getting people's names right. They don't deserve it. He said, I think they are. I think they are ditzy twits. These are the dumbest, dumbest bimbos with due respect, which I'm like, why even say that that I have ever seen. Here's one of the worst ones.

This is from Larry the Cable Guy. So... Oh, great. Great. He said...

I've had it with this piece of crap flubber factory spouting off every time her semi-sized ass hits the stage. People say, but Larry, she ain't that fat no more. She lost almost 20 pounds. I say, big deal. That's like taking three deck chairs off the Queen Mary. Natalie Maines needs to take her size 78 Wranglers and go back to her old job of smuggling moonshine in her giant canyon-sized ass crack.

How dare the first hippo of country music go to a country whose support we're trying to get for a possible war and then attack our president in that country? Okay, so it begins.

It begins of the only thing that we can say, because these are actually very intelligent, successful women. What can we attack them about their bodies? And this is what we have been doing since the beginning of time. It's, it's so easy. I'm sure all these men commenting, Larry, the fucking cable guy, I'm sure you have a six pack. I'm sure you are a very attractive man. If your name is Larry, the cable guy. No. Yeah. I'm sure that you have this gorgeous body. Sweetheart. It,

It's infuriating. There's a CMT column, Shut Up and Sing, and I sent it to Emma yesterday. I was like, be prepared to throw your phone. It's written so much like a middle school girl. I can't help but read it that way. Read it that way. Okay, he was like,

So he's like, if she has a strong conviction, she should speak about it. It's like, she literally did, dumbass.

And in my middle school response, I'd be like, are you in love with Bush? Yeah. Like, what's wrong with you? Do you love him? Who cares? He also was like, I'd also like to see what her fan base is because teenage girls get distracted and they don't really, like, stick with their bands. And I'm like, really, sweetie? Have you seen the Heiress tour?

There is no one more dedicated. Have you seen any, like, The Beatles? Yes. It's like, you're being so blatant about your sexism, you're not even trying to cover it up. Or, like, if it's a female artist, they leave them. Yeah, and just, like, teenage girls in general, like, that they have nothing to them and that they're, like... Teenage girls fuel celebrity culture. They run the world. And the economy. Exactly. Like, literally, where would we be without us being obsessed with Chad and Michael Murray in seventh grade? NSYNC. I'm still... We just did an episode.

episode on them this is what this is what celebrity culture is yes and he does it it is us it is us um and he finishes the article by saying you're an artist and you have a message hey put it in a song we'll listen to that but otherwise shut up and sing what it's like would you listen to that really good

I could scream. Well, Jason Isabel, who's an amazing singer, songwriter, he did an interview with Pop Save America and he said, and he calls it out and it's true. He said, it's because they were women. If he said, if Tim McGraw had done it, nobody would have cared. It's because they were women. They were talking out of turn.

Referring to Eric Church's recent Rolling Stones cover story interview in which Eric Church criticized the NRA, Eric Church is a country singer, Isabel said, watch Eric Church's record sales. They're not going to drop. Nothing is going to happen to Eric Church. Guys like me can say whatever we want to say, but that thing happened because Natalie Mainz was a woman. It gave them an opportunity to push another woman out of the entertainment business.

It was just an opportunity. And also, if, let's say, Britney Spears had said this, who is a sex symbol, people would have similar responses of, like, she's just good for her body. She's just good for her abs. Like, it's all going to come out of the same place because it's so... It has no substance. It's disgusting. And also, it's like, why can't you have an opinion? She didn't make a threat to anyone. She wasn't like, I'm going to go bond. Like you did to her. Yeah.

It makes me so mad. Yes, but you're allowed to then threaten her because she spoke so out of line. It's so... But they don't back down. The chicks don't. Good. They put out a statement that says, while we support the troops, there's nothing more frightening than the notion of going to war with Iraq and the prospect of all the innocent lives that will be lost. I feel the president is ignoring the opinions of many of the U.S. and alienating the rest of the world. My comments were made in frustration, and one of the privileges of being an American is that you are free to voice your own point of view.

And people were like, not good enough. Were there other celebrities that came out in support for them? Yeah, there were like, you know, but yeah, like, but not the country community that a lot of them were like buying their albums and stuff. And like,

buying tickets to their tours and everything. But there were people who were like, hell yeah. Louder for those in the back. Well, because most celebrities were speaking out at this time being like, we don't support it. Right? Yeah. And that shut up and saying, well, also there was censorship though. Like remember at the Grammys, they couldn't say anything about it or they would have been cut off. But in that shut up and saying thing, he was like, she's not qualified to talk about this. And it's like, I mean, you are. Oh, I feel so angry. So angry. Oh, you're so angry.

But literally, actually, I really don't know what to say. I am. So she does end up apologizing for what she says. I'm sorry I disrespected Bush. I mean, how can you...

can you blame her at that point because she was getting death threats this is the position that women are always put into it's like but now you have to apologize for something that you actually do not need to apologize for well she said at the end of the apology she said while war may remain a viable option as a mother I just want to see every possible alternative exhausted before children and American soldiers lives are lost I love my country and I'm proud to be an American you know she she had to play the mother card probably but also that is probably how

probably how she feels. That is so true. That's not like disingenuous, but it's also, I'm sure her team, like what happens is they go, okay, everyone hates you. The only thing you have left is kids and your mom, like part of your life. And so then you have to do that for the country community. It's really interesting to watch the documentary because they were making a documentary before all this happened because they're the biggest selling group of all time, female group. And to watch them do the media, like play.

planning afterwards was so crazy. But Natalie means the whole time. It's like, I don't give a fuck. Well, and in 2006, Natalie took back her apology. She made in 2003 saying, I don't feel that way anymore. I don't feel Bush's owed any respect whatsoever. And a week later, they pose nude on the cover of entertainment weekly with the names. They've been called painted on their bodies among them. Saddam's angels, Dixie sluts,

- Chills. - Traitors, and their publicist, it's so funny 'cause they have footage of this in the doc, she's like, "This is such a bad idea." She's literally freaking out on the side and they're like, "We're doing this." And Emily, who's the banjo player in the doc said, "People don't understand how tight we are. "We're a sisterhood. "We go through the good, the bad, and the ugly all together."

Sisterhood. Sisterhood. It's the best thing in the entire world. And the doc, it also shows George Bush is asked about this. And he said, the Dixie Chicks are free to speak their minds. They can say whatever they want to say. And just because... Sorry. Oh, yeah. Wait, what did I say? What did George Bush say? Um...

Okay. The Dixie Chicks are free to speak their mind. They can say whatever they want to say. And just because he said something, they shouldn't have their, oh, and they shouldn't have their feelings hurt just because some people don't want to buy their records when they speak out. You know, freedom is a two way street to which Natalie means the documentary says they shouldn't have their feelings hurt. What a dumb fuck. And then she looks in the camera and she goes, you're a dumb fuck. I love her so much. I love her so much. Oh my God. She's iconic.

So back to Toby Keith at his shows on the Jumbotron. He displayed a Photoshop picture of Saddam Hussein wrapping his arms around Natalie Maines. And he has a gun on his back and it says Saddam Hussein and Natalie Maines Dixie Duo songs of peace and love. And he plays this on the Jumbotron across all of his shows.

So when the chicks performed on the ACM Awards, she wore a shirt that said F-U-T-K.

Fuck you. Toby. Love. You know what it's giving? What? Bringing back to Bravo. It's giving Slade. Slade. Yes. When he like. Slade smiling. Miss Piggy with Vicky. Yes. At all of his shows. And people are like, you know what? That's not a cute look. You're trash. Like gross to be talking about. Trash, trash, trash. Not for us. Not for us. And then when asked about the shirt later, she winkingly and uncompensingly claims that F-U-T-K stood for Friends United Together in Kindness. Yes.

The chicks completely drop off the charts. Sorry to like take us down. Yeah. Just like, yeah, but it's crazy. Like they were like a number one and they go just like way down. People start like, it's just wild. They're getting death threats. Um, on a Dallas show, um, they, uh, received a letter that said Natalie mains will be shot dead on July 6th in Dallas, Texas. And so she had to be escorted by police to the concert. Um,

They all had to hire 24-7 security. People dump trash in their yards. Yards, yeah. I'm like, what are words? It's just, it's terrifying. It's a terrifying time for them.

Yeah. It's just, I just cannot help but think about the hypocrisy of it all. It's crazy. But even in the Diane Sawyer interview, she's like, I mean, I wasn't even thinking about, she isn't like, I didn't mean what I said. Like they really stand as a united front and they don't back down. Good. And they get in the studio and they start making another album. Good. And they're like, we are so done.

with the country community. We are not going to try to cater to them at all. Way to be turned off by like, yeah, that's one way to lose. Good. Yeah. Say goodbye. Natalie means was just like goodbye forever. Um, and so they start working with Rick Rubin, which like he would actually be a really interesting Ram episode. He was, we've been around. Didn't someone tell us to do that? They, I,

Probably. Oh, it's Kunal. Kunal wants to do Rick Rubin. He's a fascinating person. We should. So they work with him. He's worked with everyone, guys. And they're like, we have nothing to lose. And so their album comes out in 2006. It's called Taking the Long Way. And of course, the star of this album is not ready to make nice.

Which I also love that they come out with an album and they're like, just so you know. We're not ready to make nice. Yes. Like we're not apologizing. What a good lesson for young women. Yes. To be seeing this and to be like, they weren't like, oh my God, we regret what we said. We wish we want peace and love. They were like, fuck no. There was a scene in the doc where someone was like, maybe we just like say it was like a joke. We were just making a joke about it. And Natalie was like, but it's not a joke. It's serious. It's not funny. Yeah.

I want to watch. It's incredible. And Not Ready to Make Nice has one of the best bridges of all time. I have chills. I have chills, too. That bridge is... Wow. I mean, like, that bridge walked so Taylor's bridges could run. I mean, these women walk so that Taylor can run, and she's admitted that. Oh, 100%. That bridge is the Elmo fire jiff. Okay.

Oh my God, that airplane's loud. Oh, geez. Wow, it's so true. I will post the Elmo fire gif if you are unaware. With the link to that song? Yes, okay. We are doing that this week. So, Taking a Long Way debuted at number one on both the U.S. pop album charts and the U.S. country charts, making it a gold record within the first week, despite having little to no airplay in the areas that it wants to brace them.

And they become the first female band in chart history to have three albums debut at number one. Oh, we love it. And this is also coming when Bush's approval rating has gone way down because everyone found out there weren't actually weapons of mass destruction. And 59% now call the Iraq war a mistake.

She was right. Yep, she was right. And at the 49th Grammy Awards show on February 11, 2007, the group won all five categories for which they were nominated, including the top award, Song of the Year, Record of the Year for Not Ready to Make Nice, and Album of the Year. Yes, girlies, we love it. We love a revenge story. Success is the best revenge. Of course. And they go back to that same venue in 2006.

that they said that thing in London, touring their best-selling album. And Natalie Main says, all week, the only thing people keep asking me is, what are you going to say? Do you know what you're going to say? And as usual, I didn't plan anything. But I thought I'd say something brand new and just say, just so you know, we're ashamed the President of the United States is from Texas. Also, Tess, I wrote, just so you know, the President of the United States is from Tess. Elmo guess. Yeah.

I'm always thinking of you. I love it so much. I mean, truly honored. Honored. So they take a very well-deserved hiatus and we're wrapping it up here. But I do have to mention that in November, 2016, they perform daddy lessons with Beyonce at the CMA awards. And they're all Texas women up there. And it's just like so powerful. You guys please YouTube that performance, except you'll be so disappointed because the crowd is literally just like blank face. Yeah. Why are they like that?

Well, Tess, some of the sentiment was due to Beyonce's liberal-leaning politics. Some of it was rooted in her perceived lack of country credit, and some of it was downright just racist.

In particular, quite a few people voiced their opposition to Beyonce's support for Black Lives Matter movement, her use of Black Panther imagery in her Super Bowl performance, and her vocal support for police reform. That's right. So CMA started taking Beyonce out of their promotions for the show. And later they were like, oh, it's just because it was unapproved. You should be so fucking lucky that Beyonce would grace your stage. Yep.

I saw an interview with Natalie Mains after that, and she was like, I thought I was done with the country community before. After Beyonce gifted us with that, I'm done with you forever now. What a bad look you guys have really... What is your problem? What is your problem? And these are the things that's like, you're on the right side of history and wrong side of history. You're also on the right side of just being a good fucking person. Right.

Or being a bad person. Exactly. But that performance, ugh. Go listen to Daddy Lessons with the chicks. That we are remembering. Yes. And they add in Long Time Gone. It's incredible. It's incredible. Ugh. Um...

So on July 17, 2020, the Chicks released their first album in 14 years, Gaslighter, produced by Jack Antonoff. Sing it. Gaslighter. Denier. Oh, it's so good. Oh, I forgot to mention, because Gaslighter makes me think of it. When they perform Goodbye Earl, they have a picture of Trump behind them. And OJ. Yeah.

They put OJ. That's right. It's all these men that have just truly gaslit the hell out of all of us. And disgusting human beings. But yeah, produced by Jack Antonoff. And on August 20th, 2020, the Chicks performed the Star Spangled Banner at the 2020 Democratic National Convention.

And that is the chicks. I have chills even from, like, ending this episode. Like, that was very good, Claire. Oh, thank you. That was one of my favorite episodes I think you've ever done. I love them. Like, I am obsessed. Very on brand for you with your love for them and for us with just, like, hating the patriarchy. Stick it to the man. Stick it to the man. And...

Your passion and your knowledge. I'm very impressed. And I really think that they set it up for people like Casey Musgraves, Kelsey Ballerini, Mayor Morris. Yes, for women to be able to be like, hey, I'm part of this community and we are changing some of the... Like, this isn't my country community. And this doesn't have to be. It shouldn't be. Because the people that have enforced these sort of policies that we have to follow are trash. Trash, trash, trash. Not for us, people. Not for us. That was a wild ride. I enjoyed every second of it. Oh, good.

glad. I was like, I could have talked about this for another hour. I mean, and we could. I really highly recommend to go listen to their whole catalog. It's just full of like female power. It's such a good time and they deserve our support for the rest of time because like

We, as a society, owe them an apology. We literally do. Yeah. Especially now that we just see that you can really say whatever you want in the most hateful... I mean, the president of this country for four years said whatever he wanted about women and about people of color. Yep. And he was elected. So the fact that women were...

Three women were just like, hey, we're ashamed of this. It's disgusting. That is just crazy. It's crazy. And I, you know, one day, oh, I forgot I have an experience with Natalie Maines. Should I say it? Say it. Should I say all of it? Say all of it. Say it, Claire. I was at, if you're still listening, this will be good to see if people are still listening. And I was at a dinner. Say it. And Natalie Maines showed up. And Natalie Maines and Taylor Swift were both. Yeah, Taylor Swift. Sorry. Yeah.

Yes, they were both singing Cowboy Take Me Away. It was, I was literally, it was one of, seeing Natalie Maines perform that live was one of the best experiences of my life. But not only that, they forget one of the lyrics and I had to remind them. Stop. Stop. I'm sweating. I'm going to leave. I don't think I realized, like, being in Natalie Maines' presence, I don't think I realized. Did they harmonize to it? I don't remember. I don't remember that. Claire, please. I don't.

But it was just like, she is, I think she's one of my favorite people. So you met her? I did. Every time. I did. We're always surprised. Queer celebrity connections. It was, it was. That is incredible. I wish I could go back now because I don't even think, I'm sweating. I'm sweating too. I don't even think I realized how exciting it was to be in her presence as I like would now. Oh my God. I know. Jesus fucking Christ. I love all three of them. I do too. Wow. You know.

It's Women in Music Month, baby. What a perfect episode.

to conclude our... Yes. I think so, too. You know? Next week, we're either going to have a guest or we're going to have a re-release. We're keeping you on your toes. We'll let you know. Yeah, we'll let you know. But this was the perfect, like... Wow, what a perfect episode for you. Thank you. I love those women. Like, I'm obsessed with them. Wow. It's hard. It's... We'll watch the trailer after for their documentary. Oh, my God. I just don't even know what to say. I feel like I do feel overwhelmed with, like...

It's good. I mean, yes, it's a lot. I feel all the things. Guys, thank you so much for listening. That was just gorgeous. Thank you. And please follow us on Instagram and Facebook. Facebook? That was an interesting one. You love it. I love it.

I love it. And TikTok, YouTube, we're all over the place. We're everywhere that you can literally find us. We will be there. It's true. And like you guys have asked, please put your podcast on Amazon Music. And we did. We'll do anything you guys ask. We will. Pretty much. Yeah. Just not the 9-11. Not the 9-11. Sorry. But everything else, we will consider it. Thank you guys. We love you so much. We love you. We'll see you next week. Yes. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.