Stockholm Syndrome. The Plot Line to A Hallmark Movie
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Hello again there, Rammies or Lammies. Oh. Whatever you prefer. What do you prefer? I say go big or go home. Oh, yeah. So a Rammie, but today I...

You know, Lamy. I think we need to give the Lamys a little bit more love. Yeah, exactly. They're babies. They are babies, and it does take a little bit of time. For them to grow. Exactly. And establish. Hi, I'm Claire. And I'm Tess. And welcome to Write Answers Mostly. A podcast. On what you didn't learn in history class. But you really, really wanted to. We're going to talk back and forth through the whole episode. Yes, every other word. Every other word. How are you doing, Tess? I am good. Good.

Um...

I'm good. Good. Yeah, I feel like it's a busy week. It has been a busy week. Like not a lot of time at home. Do you like that or not? You're a tourist, so you like to be home. I do. I've liked it more in the past like two years than ever before. Now I really like my home. I was about to say you've grown into that in the past two years. I used to not be like that, but now I'm just like, oh, every night, like I just want to be, I like to host. Yeah, your home is your safe haven. Yeah, I want to be around people, but like in my own place. I love that. It's

Same, honestly. But how are you? I'm actually great. I was like, you have to say that you are great. Because every other time people that you've been asked how you are, you're like, I'm

I know. I do the same thing, and it's kind of annoying. Yeah, and you don't have to be great, but all things considering, I'm great. Have you ever, if a stranger or someone at the grocery store is ever checking you out at the register and they're like, how are you? Have you ever been like, not so good? I've just said fine. Usually, I'm like, fine. Yeah. I'll never forget. This has stuck with me for so long. Shout out and RIP to Olivia Newton-John. Sorry, sorry.

to bring it there, but we must honor her. We must. And I watch Grease so much and I'll never forget when she is at the pep rally and the football player from across the stage mouths, how are you? And she mouths, fine. And I always was like as a kid being like, what are like a classy, she just goes, fine. Like wow.

I'm like, wow. Oh, that is classy. And you are fine, Olivia Newton-John, and we miss you. RIP, sweet, sweet angel. Sweet, sweet thing. Wait, Claire, one second. Okay. We're back. I'm great. Peachy. Peachy keen. Peachy keen. Today, we don't have a cocktail, but we both do have weed pens.

We do. There was a time, maybe last week, where we were like, was drinking just not a good... I think it was the first time we both were like, it didn't feel good to drink that early. It didn't. That's why I'm like, we'll talk later, but let's start recording in the evenings again. Yes. Oh, there's like smoke filling this room. I just took a really big hit from these pens. If y'all don't know, get yourself, if you're into cannabis, get a weed pen. They're so nice and light.

Very functional. If you're not like a functioning stoner, like you, there are people who like to be high all day. I'm not one of them, but this is a great, like if you want to be creative and get work done. Yes. You feel just like it's a little mood elevator, but it's not going to like completely disrupt your tasks. Yes, exactly. Except last night I took one little too many hits. I was like, it is time for bed now. You're like, it is disrupting me this time. But yeah, we love a weed pen and we'll just be smoking that throughout the day. Throughout the episode. And you know, it's kind of appropriate because there's

There's some crazy shit on this one. I bet there is. Today we are going to be talking about the story behind Stockholm Syndrome. I didn't know that there was a story. I just thought it was a thing. A whole event behind it. Wow, wow, wow, wow. So what do you know about Stockholm Syndrome?

I pretty much know about it through Beauty and the Beast. Oh my God, that is the perfect example of Stockholm Syndrome. So I know that it's like essentially falling for someone, you know, that like the power dynamic is off and you fall in love with the person who's essentially abusing you or your captor. I'm so glad you brought up Beauty and the Beast because the TikTok has been in my head where it's revealed that

him as a beast and then him revealed as a human and the guy go he's uglier that has been in my head for so long well some say the beast is hot I I think he's hotter than him as a human and you know take that as you will I mean I think Simba's hot if we're gonna be talking about animated characters that are animals sorry no no apology necessary I think we all agree Simba's hot yeah the beast was hot

Yeah. But I remember watching a video in like living skills class in high school about how the, like a documentary called Disneyopoly where it's about how like every Disney movie is sexist and racist and it goes through and how it perpetuates women's bodies. And it's like, it's really, it's an interesting documentary, which is true, but they take it like to the extreme, to the extreme. And it was like, being an abuse is about Stockholm syndrome. And this man, her captor is abusing her and she falls for him because of it. And I was like, Oh, it is Stockholm syndrome. Hmm.

But how do we get to start? I apologize. Well, okay. So that's all you guys need to know. And we're going to channel Beauty and the Beast. But how do we get started?

to the phrase Stockholm Syndrome. Did it start in Stockholm? It sure did. So real quick, again, you just pretty much gave the definition of Stockholm Syndrome. According to the Cleveland Clinic, Stockholm Syndrome is a coping mechanism to a captive or abuse situation. People develop positive feelings toward their captors or abusers over time. This condition applies to situations including child abuse, coach athlete abuse. I like that they had that one in there.

Oh, but like so true. Think about the gymnastics. Yes. And they're like, but these are my coaches. Relationship abuse and sex trafficking. So super intense stuff. Treatments include psychotherapy, talk therapy, and medications if needed. So yes, falling in love with your captor. And a lot of people are like, you can't, Stockholm syndrome is an interesting thing because it's a syndrome. So it's like a bunch of things put together. It's not like a disease. It's like, don't we all kind of have that at some point? Yeah.

I was listening to a podcast you're wrong about. Shout out to them. And they were like saying how like we are all Stockholm syndrome to capitalism. And I was like, stick it to the maniosis. I've come down with it again. Whoa. I know. And like so many relationships in your life. Yeah. Like I could look back and be like, I can think of three people that I've kind of experienced that with. It's crazy. Huh? Yeah. So we're all, we are all, um, what's the, yeah, seriously. I don't want to do this episode. Yeah.

Oh, man. Okay. Okay. Oh, I'm fascinated. So people know the term but don't know the name is from a 1973 bank robbery incident that happened in Stockholm, Sweden. That is so funny because last night I was high thinking about bank robberies because I was watching the town. And I asked my boyfriend, I was like, are bank robberies still a thing? And he was like, I don't know. Are they still a thing? Yes, it was like a thing.

Huh. Like that people did. Now I feel like it's all just like hacking. Oh, that's true. Like there's other ways. Totally. Instead of going into a bank. I'm like, who goes to a bank room? Yeah, I couldn't tell you. I'm so sorry to interrupt. But wow. Bank robbery has been on my mind. So this is kind of weird. Perfect. Wow. This is meant for you. So during the six day standoff with police.

Many of the captive bank employees became sympathetic towards their bank robbers. After they were set free, some bank employees refused to testify against the bank robbers in court and even raised money for their defense. The human mind, man. Crazy. And we'll see. We'll explore how this all comes to be. Yeah. Just a quick shout out. Most of my information is

Well, a little bit was from our mother, history.com. She always comes through. And most of my information was from the actual article from 1974 in The New Yorker by Daniel Lang. And a year after this happened, he interviewed the captives. He interviewed the robbers. It was such a long article, but lots of information. Oh, wow. So here we go. Oh, my God. I love it. On the morning of August 23rd, 1973. That's my birthday.

It is also cosmic. It is cosmic. What's going to happen? I'm going to go buy a lottery ticket. I'm going to go rob a bank. Yeah.

Better idea. Don't come for us if there's a bank robbery. Allegedly. Allegedly. Exactly. So this 32-year-old dude named, I think you pronounce it Jan. It's J-O-N, but he's Swedish. Or maybe J-A-N. J-A-N. Jan. Yeah, yeah. Not Jan. Right. Sure, Jan. Jan Erik Olsson, an escaped convict, crossed the street of Sweden's capital city and entered a bustling bank on Stockholm's upscale street.

Normaumstorg. Oh, my gosh. It's all like Swedish stuff. Normaumstorg Square. Olsen was a repeat offender who had committed several armed robberies and acts of violence, the first of which had been when he was 16. So criminal vibes. Criminal vibes. Okay. So in his hand underneath a folded jacket, he had a submachine gun and a large can. And on the other hand, he had a large canvas suitcase, which contained, um,

Ammunition, plastic explosives, blasting caps, safety fuses, length of rope, I don't know, rope, a knife. Oh, my God, this weed pen. Wool socks, sunglasses, two walkie-talkies, and a transistor radio. Is that the biggest suitcase in the entire world? How could you hold such a thing? I'm just...

I just, after reading that out loud, I'm like, how? Well, if it was a rolly backpack. It was like, yeah, seriously, it had to be. It's like a Mary Poppins bag. Wow. So he was in disguise. He wore a pair of toy store spectacles and a thick brown wig. His cheeks were rouged and his reddish brown mustache and eyebrows were dyed jet black.

Bank robbers are theater kids who just never got the audition. I'm saying it. They want the attention. They want the attention. They always get really theatrical with it. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. There's something there. So he pulls out his loaded gun, fired at the ceiling, and disguising his voice to sound like an American, he cried out in English, the party has just begun. And I say no more. Say no more. I rest my case. The party has just begun. Everyone's like, say hello.

I love Frank Good Times. Come on. He's like, no, I'm trying to rob you guys. So instinctively, most of the patrons like ran out of the bank, obviously. But a lot of them dropped to the ground and some people were trying to get out. So scary. I can't imagine. What you would do. Horrifying. I think your body goes in shock. Fight or flight? Exactly. So...

He put his radio on the teller's counter and turned it on full blast. And it was actually rock music that was coming out. But he was trying to find if he was like picking up if police had been notified. Like he was keeping it on to any time on the radio. If like a police radio cuts in, it's like there's a robbery. So he knows what's going on. But imagine just rock music playing like how haunting that is. What if it was like Nickelback? Oh, I'd be like, just shoot me.

Shoot me. Take me now. I'd rather not. It's not worth it. I'm already in hell. Truly. So, he then spots a 23-year-old woman named Kristen Enmark. She later said, I thought this was interesting. I believed a manic had come into my life. I believed I was seeing something that could only happen in America.

So she's not wrong. Since the beginning of time, America has just had fucked up shit happening. And Sweden was like, this doesn't happen here. Yeah. They're like, because we actually have laws to protect against this. Exactly. Exactly. And this was in the seventies. So Olsen takes some rope from his bag and told a guy to bind her hands and ankles with it. When she's bound, she looks on the floor and,

There's a woman next to her, Birgitta, lying nearby, and she was also bound. And then he had another guy tie up a third employee, Elizabeth Oldergren, who is a 21-year-old cashier. So we have three women bound on the ground. They're all so young. Young, yeah. I think it was Birgitta was a little older and had a kid. Mm-hmm.

But I think she was still young and Elizabeth and Kristen were young. So then Jan Erik Olsen shouts to no one in particular, I want to talk to the police.

Which was actually good timing because when he went in there, a silent alarm went off. And so police were starting to arrive to the scene pretty immediately. Silent alarm. Smart. They said that in Sweden, they have silent alarms instead of armed guards, which is actually kind of smart because if you're in a hostage situation, I guess the armed guards can't do much like to call someone. Oh, that's true. I just thought about that now. Maybe that's Sweden. You just have got it figured out. Even in the 70s. Technology as well.

So two police officers go inside and Olsen opens fire. One of the officers, Ingemar Wopperfeld, these names are wild, suffered injuries to his hand. The other one, Rylander, was ordered to sit in a chair and sing something. So he started singing Lonesome Cowboy. And he later said in this article, I did it softly. I was also feeling lonesome.

He's like, I stand by it. He's like, it was my performance of my lifetime. This is all theater kids. I mean, like literally, this is like opening night. Imagine like a spotlight comes on him. Why did he order him to sing just to be fucking creepy and weird? I think, yeah, he was just like, he's probably like,

Keep you occupied while I'm trying to figure my shit out. Maybe. I don't know. Haunting. Haunting. So then Jan Olsen is like, okay, get everyone out of here. Everyone out to the police officers except Kristen, Elizabeth, and Brigitte, who are bound to the floor. Can you imagine what they must have felt like when he said that? I mean, like the three women in there? Yeah, the three.

Three women. Great play. Oh, wait. Book. Yeah. We can make it to a play. We can. So they get everyone out there and they're escorted on the streets. Police pour into the square outside the bank, followed by reporters, photographers, camera crews, and large crowds of spectators. So the crime in progress was broadcast on live television. And this was the first criminal event in Sweden to be covered by live television. Because everyone's usually just walking around, doing their thing. Yeah.

You know, enjoying their like universal health care and all that stuff. So everyone really wanted to see what was going on. So he is like, okay, to the police, this buddy, like I want, before I release these hostages, we're going to do this how I want to do it and when I want to do it. So we'll get them out of here, but on my terms. Oh, God. Hostage stuff is so like. It's so scary. Like what do you do? What do you do? It's so scary. So his demands.

I love his first demand. He wanted his friend and expert bank robber Clark Olofsson, who was currently in jail and serving time for armed robbery and acting as an accessory in 1966 murder of a police officer, to be brought to the bank that afternoon. Like, that would be me being like, get my best friend here. Yeah, I'm just like, I miss him. I miss my man.

And he's in prison, too. So they had to go out and get him in prison and bring him. Wow. Like, my ride or die. Yeah, yeah. I get it. Yeah. He wanted three million Swedish kronor. And he wanted a couple of guns, some bulletproof vests, some helmets, and a fast getaway car. And he was like, also, the hostages are going to come in the getaway car with me. So I'm going to get them.

So I make sure that you guys don't try to follow me and shoot me and all of that. So no matter what, they're coming with me.

Oh, my God. Yeah. And he pointed the submachine gun at his three captives when he was saying this. And he's like, they have to come with me. And he goes, if anything happens to them, then the police will be to blame. So he's already starting to put this narrative out there of like, I'm telling you how I'm going to get them out safely if you just give me everything I want. And if something goes wrong, that's your fault. I mean, it's kind of smart. It is smart. It's very smart. Also, like, very manipulative. True.

Truly. I don't know what my demands would be. I wouldn't know what to say. Let's get a Topo Chico in here. A Diet Coke in a can. But for everyone. Yeah, for everyone. Like, do we bottle or can? Which one are you on? So then they, okay, so the police were like, well, shit. Okay, the safety of these people are the most important thing for us.

So within hours, the police delivered his friend through the back door with handcuffs. Remember, like this friend has no idea what's going on. They're just like, you got to get out of here and come with us. So they lead him to the bank. He goes on the lobby and he says, what's going on here? And then he looks at the robber and he literally in quote says, oh, it's you. Why am I here? This is a play. This is crazy. Crazy.

So they're like, let's get to work on robbing this bank. It's you and me, babe, with our three captors. So they blow open the cashier drawers. They burn security film footage. And while they're doing this, they make the three women huddle very closely next to them and make a human shield because they had snipers outside. And so they were doing it to make sure, like, if we get shot, they're going to have to shoot one of their captors. Sucks. That's terrifying. That's so scary. So scary. So scary.

Again, we know where the story ends up because we know how we get this phrase. They're like, we've never loved someone so much. So then while they're doing all this stuff, they find Finn Safstrom, who was an employee at the bank, a blonde bachelor of 25, tall and slender. Oh. Yeah. Finn had hidden himself in a stock room used for storing checkboxes and stationery supplies.

And they didn't know he was in there because he heard all this going down. Oh, shit. This might have been, I'm not exactly sure. This might have been the next day. I do want to warn you guys on timeline things. We're just starting from the six days and there's not like a day one, day two, day three. Yeah, yeah. We're just talking about things that happened. So they were like, what are you doing here? Like we did not want another captor. They were upset about it. And then they were like, well, we can't kick him out. So we might as well make the best of it. And Sven said, they then said, well, come and have a drink with us.

I don't even think they had a drink. I think it was just a phrase of being like, come join us. They're like, we can use another bro. Yeah, exactly. Like the estrogen is strong. Yeah. They're like, we wanted to catch up just as friends, but you can come too. So through the bank's windows around this time too, they also see that the police had delivered him a blue Mustang parked outside or then parked it outside. So it was a getaway cart that they promised him. So they're like, here's a blue Mustang too. It has a full tank of gas and it's ready to go. Do Mustangs go the quickest?

I don't know. Seems like too chic of a car. And also, like, a Ford Mustang is an American car. Like, I would assume, like, a Volvo would show up. Yeah, that German power. But maybe they are theater kids, and they're like, for the aesthetic of this. Ooh, blue. Yes, the Mustang. They're like, get it on film. Exactly.

I think that's why. That would be the explanation. And they were like, here you go. However, you are absolutely, like, we're not going to let you leave with the hostages. Like, you can leave on your own, but you cannot leave with them. So Olson and Clark were like, fine, whatever. We're just going to post up in the bank vault.

So it was far from windows, so there was no worries for sharpshooters. Toilets were nearby, and so was the staircase, which serves as an exchange for the police and the robbers to exchange messages and carried out other transactions involving, for instance, food and money. Because he's also asking for money. So the police... This is so weird to me, and it's crazy, but I understand why it happens. They were...

hanging out on the second floor while they were on the first floor because they had to deliver like negotiations but it's so crazy like you guys are in the same same building I mean I guess that kind of puts it to on a level of like we can't like throw a bomb in here like I don't know what kind of stuff they do but like they're all almost working for the same thing I'm trying to protect everyone exactly it's just so crazy to know you're so close like you can't just go and get them um so

Again, this is the six-day standoff. By the second day, the hostages were on a first-name basis with their captors, and they started to fear the police more than the abductors because the robbers kept being like, guys, I promise we want to get you out safe, but the police are making it difficult. And if something happens, we're trying to be peaceful. It's the police. I could see myself falling for it. Silence. Silence.

I kind of get it too. It's manipulative, but in that time of trauma, you will believe whoever's closest to you. If you hear you're going to be safe, if this happens, you're going to do that and believe that. Believe that. So then when Elizabeth was like, okay, I'm feeling super claustrophobic in this vault, she's like,

Jean, or Jan, put a length of rope about 30 feet around her neck and let her out for a walk. Elizabeth said, I couldn't go far, and I was on a leash that he held, but I felt free. I remember thinking he was very kind to allow me to leave the vault.

So already she's like, I said I was claustrophobic and he let me walk. This is crazy. This is 48 hours into it. Yes. It's like the Stanford prison experiment where people just started losing their mind immediately. Like within like a day. Scary that we're so malleable. We really are. We're delicate little flowers. We sure are. So yeah, he put a rope leash on her and she was like, thank you.

Later in the day, Olsen permitted Kristen and Birgitta to a bathroom unleashed. Out of Olsen's sight, both saw police crouched and hiding behind the staircase. One of the officers asked Kristen in a whisper how many hostages the robber had taken. Kristen said, I showed them with my fingers. And then she said, I felt like a traitor. I didn't know why. So she felt like she was betraying him by telling the cops how many captives were in there. This is like the second day.

The sight of the police also made Birgitta feel torn. She said, So she could have just left.

For Gita. You have two daughters. But I just don't know what it's like in that situation. Yeah. It's like when little kids don't want to go somewhere and then they end up having the best time and they're like, I don't want to go home. Yeah, that's so true. It's crazy. So...

After, okay, so after Olsen got his BFF in there and he got his getaway card, he's like, now give me the money. So they deliver him $350,000. That was in 70s time. I didn't do the calculator. I'm so sorry. It's okay. It's lamey. We have to go. But he was like, so they delivered that to him, but they were all like crispy.

bills like perfect bills and he was like this is going to be so easy for y'all to track me if I use this money so I want old rumpled up money. Really it's easy to track? I think because it's like they come in order and stuff and so then maybe they can track the order like in the numbers on the crazy. That's so true. He's smart to think that and to like realize that. He's a smart attractive man it seems like. With a great personality. He's

giving he's caring yeah yeah yeah um so the police spent two hours gathering up old bills they're like I have one in my pocket um I think at home my wife has a 50 it's like everyone go home and search through your couch now that's literally what I imagine um so while he's doing that while they're doing that um

Jan lets the woman use the phones on the ground floor to call their families. Kristen talks to her mom, who obviously had to be calmed down. She's freaking out. And Birgitta, Birgitta? What's her name again? Birgitta, I think. And Elizabeth don't get a hold of their families. And when Birgitta's eyes start tearing up, Olsen touched her cheek and said, try again. Don't give up. Sorry, I can't say what the story is. Try again. Don't give up.

Do you think he genuinely cared about them? I do. There's a story about him. I'm falling for it right now. Maybe he just wanted the money, but he wanted them to be okay. I think that's literally what it was. And this might be a little longer episode. We're going to go through it. But just real quick, there's a story about him before all this happened when he was robbing. He was robbing this old couple's home and they...

He's like Robin Hood. He is. A complicated figure. Is he Robin Hood?

Oh, my gosh. That is so true. Wow. So try again and don't give up. Around this time is when we start seeing the captors and captives really start bonding. I bet so. I mean, it's six days in a vault together. Like you really get to know someone. Yeah. So while in the vault, one of the women was like, it's kind of chilly in here. So he made a demand to the police to bring her a coat.

which they did. Elizabeth said she woke up from sleep once from the cold, and just as she opened her eyes shivering, she told investigators the robber dropped his gray wool jacket around her shoulders. So he was like, she's shivering. And so he...

When they fell asleep, he would position them in places around the room so they would be diversions that the police ran in. And they said they said like they would kind of fall asleep. But he was constantly just chewing caffeine tablets. Oh, my God. They have like six days. So horrible. And he's still kind.

Right. And they are eating food. So they did have negotiations that they bring him a little food. But one time, I don't know, something happened to the rations of the food and they were all like hungry. He cut up pear and shared it with everyone.

Pear, what a delicacy. Yeah, pear. I would be like, actually, I'll just skip it. I don't love pears. I just, give me some like meat. Yeah, definitely need protein. Protein. The pear would just go too soon. Truly. One time, Kristen had a nightmare. Olsen is, again, yawn Olsen, rushed over to comfort her. And it's like, it's just a dream. It's just a dream. And he talked to her. Oh my God, this is wild.

Later, when Kristen was asked if her screens were connected in any way with sexual assault by the convicts, she was asked this not only because the microphones, because they did start putting microphones out there to try to listen to them, had picked up her screens, but because in talking freely of her captivity, she had recalled in passing that now and then she held hands with Clark, the best friend. People are like hooking up in there?

They're like falling in love. And a mission that caused the police investigator to inquire, did you say you held hands with Clark? Yes, Kirsten replied. Perhaps it sounds a little like a cliche, but Clark gave me tenderness. Yes, we held hands, but there was no sex. It made me feel enormously secure. It's what I needed. This is a fever dream. This is not happening. This did not happen. Okay.

She goes, no sex. Like, it would have been so normal for them to hook up in this bank vault. We just held hands. Clark's Tinder is hell. She's... I... I can't. I literally can't. It's like these two bros that are just robbing a bank, Olsen and Clark, and they're like,

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So, the, yep, police deliver newspapers along with food and ample supply of beer. They're just, like, throwing a party from them at this point. Literally, this is, like, every college kid's dream. This is, like, Big Brother. They're all just stuck in a room, like, hooking up with each other. And drinking. Yeah, Summer House. This is just Summer House. The original Summer House in Stockholm. So, okay, then they were, like, we need to know that the hostages are okay. You need to bring them out so we can take a look at them. So...

Clark, the BFF of Olsen, leads them out and an officer inspects them. The officer goes back to his crew and he was like, they're totally healthy. They're totally fine. But the vibes, the vibes were really weird. They all acted like they hated me.

He said, Kristen basically curled her lip up at me and they were all super chill and relaxed with Clark. They even seemed kind of jovial. Clark even had their arms around two of the women like they were friends. They even asked the officer to let them leave the bank premises together with Olsen and Clark. They asked the officer to leave the premises with Olsen and Clark.

The cops must just be like, literally, what has he done to them? What is going on? Wow. Can you imagine? Like, you would think that you're walking into someone injured or shaking and crying, and they're like, chill. Damn. It's so scary. Crazy. Okay.

So Kristen actually ends up calling the prime minister. They let them make some calls. She ends up, but how do you just like have a direct line to the prime minister? She's like, I have this number memorized. Again, Sweden. They're just like, they care about their community that much. That everyone has a direct line. Ready to pull up the script? I'm ready. Do you want to be Kristen or do you want to be the prime minister? What do you want me to be? Kristen. Okay. Kristen. Kristen Cavallari. Okay.

Hey, Prime Minister. Okay. Okay. You have it pulled up? Yep. This is part of the Prime Minister and Kristen's call. Okay. I'm very disappointed. I think you were sitting there playing checkers with their lives. I fully trust Clark and the robber. I'm not desperate. They haven't done a thing to us. On the contrary, they've been very nice. But you know, Olaf, what I'm scared of is that the police will attack us and cause us to die. But the police will not do that. Okay.

I want you to let us go away with this robber. Give them the foreign currency and two guns and let us drive off. But one can't do that. Consider the situation. They were robbing a bank and shooting at the police. So they talk more, they talk more, and then they come back. What do you think will happen then? What will they do with the guns?

Maybe they want to defend themselves against the police. Uh-huh. But dearest Olaf, sweetheart, it may sound stupid, but I want to go with the two. Why? Because I trust them. I know they will let us go as long as the police don't chase us. But why do you think they will chase them? Of course.

They want to catch them. Yeah, well, is that so strange? You are the highest person in this country. You can save my life. Yes, but I think the best way of doing that is not to let them out on the roads. They must sooner or later understand that this must not continue. May I go with them? I beg you. I take it on my own risk. Insane. Holy shush. Also, calling the prime minister sweetheart? A little too casual. That's so weird.

And she's like, my dearest Olaf, like, are they having an affair? Like, probably. So now you're dealing with not these crazy bank robbers, but they all are insane. And they're all against the police. So now you have to like, it's even more complicated for a hostage situation. Right, because it's like, you can't be like, look at the safety of these people because they're like, we're chilling. We're having beer and we're holding hands.

Wow. Crazy. So, yeah, she ends up being like, they're actually protecting us from the police from coming in and attacking us. I promise they're not bad. One, he apparently talked to them, was like, I actually have kids that Olsen knows. He's like, but I can't see them because of my life or crime. So I know how you guys feel, like not being able to see your families. I'm so sorry. It's like the police would just let us go. We could go.

scary. Wow. But I think he also believes that. I don't think he was like, I'm going to get them on my side. I think he was like, I'm one of you. Yeah, yeah. Damn.

Damn dangerous. Big eyes. When like when they thought that the police were going to resort to tear gas, Olsen was like tear gas will make basically make people go brain dead after 15 minutes and I will not let them do that to us. So I will kill all of you and myself if they release tear gas in there because I don't want you to have to suffer from being brain dead for the rest of your life. And spin was the spin. The dude was like, I just thought that was so thoughtful.

That he wanted to murder us. Yes. It's so insane. So also at this time, suggestions for ending the big drama were like coming in hot. And they were all from like these old ladies who would call in and be like, I have the solution. They're like, dear is Olaf.

One believes that a concert of religious tunes by Salvation Army would break Olsen's resistance. Another urged that angry bees be sent into the strong room from the vents to sting the convicts into submission. I'm like, I actually don't think that's how bees really work either. They're just like, Lindsay, Parker, please make a cartoon of that. Please, please, Lindsay. Please. Oh, my God.

So, okay, we're nearing our end. As the day goes on, he stops letting captors use the bathroom freely and he makes them use baskets in the same room. And one of the women, we were all very polite about it. We just went to the back and did our business and came back.

Someone's like taking a poop behind you. How could you though in this situation even? Yeah, that's true. Probably so constipated. You must be from the stress. Or the other way. Yeah. The nerves. Oh, God. God, God, God. I just can't imagine. So even when threatened with harm, the hostages still saw compassion in their adductor. After Olsen told Sven he was going to shoot him in the leg to shake up the police, the hostage recounted to the New Yorker, how kind I thought he was saying, sorry, this is

so insane how kind I thought he was for saying it was just my leg he would shoot Kristen even tried to convince her fellow hostage to take the bullet but spin it's just a leg

Because they were like, if you fall down, the police will get fire underneath their ass. But I promise I won't kill you. I'll just shoot you in the leg. And he's like, thank you. I can't. I can't anymore. God. OK. So he even gave Kirsten a bullet as a keepsake. As for Brigitte, the robber told her that he apologized for having made her nervous enough to resume smoking cigarettes, which he had just given up some weeks earlier. Yeah.

He gave her cigarettes? I'm sure some of them had it in there. I'm sure Brigitte is like, it's not even worth it. How can I apologize? Yeah, he's like, I know that you worked really hard to quit cold turkey. It's insane. So, yes, Finn said, we were all sympathy, taking in everything they told us. We acted as though they were our victims, not the other way around.

Oh, yeah. That's so cute. So shout out to you guys.

The dogs and the cats. Yes, yes. So, as Finn said, everything was out of control. All of us were on the wet floor choking and vomiting, our eyes hurting, wanting air. The robber yelled, we give up, let us out. The others in the vault took up this crime.

So they were like protecting them.

How do they know that they're not going to come out with like weapons? The police? Yeah. I think that they probably were just like ready for them to do that. But maybe with the tear gas, you're just so like. Oh, you just can't? You can't. Like if they're on the floor vomiting, like I think it's your body getting poisoned. Yeah, that's so true. So in the doorway of the vault, they finally like open the door, get out.

The convicts and hostages embraced, kissed, and shook hands, and the police seized the gunman. Two female hostages cried, don't hurt them, they didn't harm us. They get the hostages to medical care and, like, tell them to lie on stretchers. Like, obviously, they had medical care waiting for them. Kristen wouldn't lie down. She sat up on her stretcher looking for signs of Olsen or Clark. Just as she was leaving the building, she saw Clark. He was handcuffed. She said...

She said, yes, she said, and police were walking him over, yanking his beard, clubbing him about the legs. Sorry, clubbing his legs. Loudly, for all to hear, she called from her stretcher, Clark, I'll see you again. Oh. This is like a Lifetime movie or a Hallmark movie that they're like making sweet. Literally, were these two men attractive? Yes.

I, I've seen pictures and I'm like, I can't see, I don't know exactly what they look like. I've seen pictures of like different people in a room that I don't know who's who, but I've never looked at one of the men and be like hideous. I think that they're, they had to be a little hot. Cause I'm like, as part of Stockholm, like, would this have been different with if it was two men, like all like four straight men together?

Do you think there's... Probably. Like, I think so. That's an element to it, right? I think there was like some sexual tension going on in here. It sounds like it's a little bit of a love story. They were like falling in love with each other. That's what I'm saying. It sounds like it'd be a Hallmark movie where it's like two strangers meet in an unexpected place. It's so crazy. Have they made a movie about this?

know. It'd be such a good movie. There's a Netflix series apparently about Clark, his BFF, that came in and joined him. But I'm like, why isn't there one about Olsen? Yeah. And about their love story with Kristen and Elizabeth and Brigitte. It's so wild. So people see this and they're like, what the fuck? What is going on? Elizabeth ended up talking to a psychiatrist later and said, is something wrong with me? Why don't I hate them?

Within months of the siege, psychiatrists dubbed the strange phenomenon, how do you say that word again? Phenomenon. Phenomenon, Stockholm Syndrome, which became part of the popular lexicon in 1974 when it was used as defense for the kidnapped newspaper heiress, Patty Hearst.

Do you know this story? Yes, yes. So this is the first time that Stockholm Syndrome is actually used in public is with her trial. And they use that as a defense. It didn't end up working. Apparently she went to jail for like seven years or something. But we should do an episode on Patty Hearst. Yes, that would be fascinating. Patty Hearst, if you guys don't know, again, she was a newspaper heiress and she was kidnapped from her home from the

I'm so sorry for people who know. It might be Simony's Liberation Army. And they held her captive. They did a lot of terrible stuff to her, but she ended up, like, sticking up for them for a little bit. Damn. Crazy. So within months of the siege, a psychiatrist... Oh, I already said that. So anyways, that was Stockholm Syndrome. That is... I never knew. Isn't that crazy? That there was an origin to it that, like...

I mean, I guess there is to everything, but I didn't think it was going to be like that. I know. I've, like, heard... I've heard, like, it's from a bank robbery, but how crazy. And, like, literally that there was a cap... Like, cap... What's it called? Capture? Captor? Captor. Yeah. And, like, I mean... But, like, I do understand it. Well, that's what I'm saying, like...

When I watched The Way Down on HBO, that religious cult documentary, one woman was like, don't call people in a cult stupid because it could happen to anyone. Yeah. And your brain, like as humans, it's always trying to find a way to make you feel safe and to essentially protecting yourself against dying. Exactly. And we want to be happy because then or else we would want to die. Exactly. And so you're doing in a traumatic situation anything you can and the stakes are so high to make sense out of it and to feel comfortable. Yeah.

It's crazy what our bodies will do. So it's like, that is just, that's what we instinctually are going to do. It's crazy. A lot of shit happened on August 23rd. A lot of shit. That is crazy. I know. I can't get over it. I know. I think we should do, I think we should make a satire show or movie or play on Stockholm Syndrome. Yes. And like, think about it in your own life. Like, if you're even like, what the fuck is wrong with these women? We have all had a situation where you probably are a little, let's just say manipulated by someone to believe that

Yeah. That they're good for you or that they're good to have in your life. Let's evaluate our relationships. Damn.

I loved it. That was also, that was hilarious. Great. Great. I hope you guys loved it. I had the best time. I really did as well. So guys, check back with us next week. We have really exciting episodes coming up. Yes, we do. As always, follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Ryan answers mostly and send us your email so you can be part of our weekly Thursday newsletter. Yes. And if you're loving what you're listening to, please share. It makes all the difference. Please do it right now. This very moment. Please, please, please. Okay. We love you. Bye. Bye.