Ashley Madison: Life is short. Have an affair?!
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Welcome back to Write Answers Mostly, a podcast on what you didn't learn in history class, but you really wanted to. My name is Tess Palomo. My name is Claire Donald. And we are back with a crazy episode. I know. I'm like, what you didn't learn in history class, but really wanted to has never applied more than today. Truly. Yeah. This is something that probably

that probably our teachers would have refrained from talking about in history class. Maybe our teachers were participating. Maybe our teachers were going through it in their own way. Yes, yes, yes, of course. You know, the teachers were always, we're always going through it. Exactly. And teachers are just adults too. And that was, you know, it's always hard to, it's hard to understand. It's hard to separate.

Yeah. Do you think like any of our teachers, because I think being a teacher is one of the worst jobs to be hungover for. There's some jobs where it's like you can cruise, you know, maybe smoke a little bit even and get through the day. Not being a teacher. I guess if you're really hungover, maybe you put on a movie.

Yeah, to reference one of the greatest films of all time, School of Rock, where he's like, I'm a cover. Who knows what that means? And Bad Teacher. And Bad Teacher. Bad Teacher is such a good movie. I thought it was going to be trash, and I was like, this is well done. I know. And that means a lot if we're complimenting a movie that Justin Timberlake said.

Actually, we love the social network, too. Fuck, I was just thinking of the social network this morning, as I often do. There's, like, funny memes. As I often do. That movie just, like, it hits. It's so good. Are you wired in now? Andrew Garfield is such a cutie in that movie. He is such a cutie.

We're back. We're back. Okay. You probably didn't know this because we're editing Queens, but I almost passed out for a second. She really did, but you didn't look pale. Well, that's good. But I did just put on self-tanner this morning. Okay. Okay. She looks good when she's about to pass out, you guys. So who knows? It's just been a crazy couple of days, guys. I've been traveling and I've been to prison. Guys, Claire is like a boss.

bitch in the best way like the rammies don't even know how much you do like she has to go sometimes she does production jobs and when she's doing that she is like on set for 12 hours you're doing ram you're doing like you are always working and you're always hustling and the rammies should know this no come on no it's true you're a boss bitch we're all boss bitches

No, it's just been a couple crazy days, but I'm so glad to be back here focusing on Ram. I was like, where were we? We were talking about being hung over with a kid before I almost passed out. I mean, that would be us. And I'm not even hung over. So God, imagine. Anyways, imagine. Oh, just to throw this in real quick, because I've said this before, that being a teacher would be like the worst job to be hung over, hung over for. And someone has thrown in the DMV. So that's also my God. Also, anything with like

sunlight being outside because I'm like at least in the DMV you get to sit down that's so true and it's like AC of course oh my god um you know Tess and my um hidden dream of construction that would also be really tough to be hung over for and dangerous and very dangerous I mean dangerous not even hung over for us um

But yeah, I mean, how are you otherwise? I'm good. I was telling Tess I had Taco Bell last night at like midnight. And honestly, that was such a treat. You deserved it. But you don't really feel Taco Bell, right? It's not for me. Like if I'm getting fast food, I'm getting Jack in the Box.

I'm getting McDonald's. I passed a Jack in the Box and I thought of you. I just love like, yeah, but Taco Bell, I mean, that's what Knoll always gets. And it's just, I've only had it twice. And what did you get? Do you remember? I got hard shell tacos. Okay. I did get one of those last night because you can't go to Taco Bell and get one thing, right? You have to get like at least two. It just doesn't feel very flavorful to me. I know. Guys. Maybe I've just been ordering the wrong things. Have you gotten Crunchwrap Supreme? Yeah.

Have I? Come on. Crunchwrap Supreme. Ladies, wake up. That's probably what I got. Oh, it's... Okay. Yeah, I don't know. I just want like a burger and fries and a milkshake like when I'm thinking fast food. I don't really like to go outside that box. I do appreciate that Jack in the Box has curly fries. That's the reason to go. Ugh. You know, the only other place that has curly fries is Arby's. You would think that we were stoned right now. But nope. High on life. High on life, baby. How are you? I'm good.

I'm good. I'm like, what if highlights? We're taking photo shoot. We're taking photo shoot. This is so chaotic. We're doing a photo shoot next week, guys, for a new cover photo. Is that okay to reveal? I think it's okay to reveal because we don't want them to be shocked or upset. That's true. But I think it's going to be a change and take it from me. I know that sometimes you're like, oh,

But guys, we're getting a makeover. We're getting professional shots. We got new outfits. Yes, Reformation. Thank you. Always. We're going to a couple different locations and she's going to be cute. She's going to be bright. She's going to be Ram 2.0. It's just time for like, it's time to grow up a little bit, you know? We have to, but we're going to give you guys warning like before it happens. Spotify is also going to help us out to be like, it's the same show, but new cover. Yes, definitely. Thank you, Spotify. People won't be like, what the hell is this? Can you guys tell that we have a really hard time with change? Yeah.

At any point, we're like, don't worry, we will tell you. I mean, like, I've even felt emotional about it. I'm scared. I'm scared, too. I think I've been avoiding planning for it. We looked at, we're taking them on the east side, which is always a lot hotter in LA. Yeah, definitely. And it says it's going to be 90 degrees, and I already emailed the photographer panicking, like having my normal heat panic. The Belomo heat panic. Being like, what are we going to do? We need a backup plan.

And I texted Claire at like 6 a.m. with a screenshot of like 90 degrees. And I was like, look at this. Look at this. I know. Look at this. But we'll look hot. Yeah, we will look hot for the heat. So yeah, that's fun. We're doing a panel.

Yes, if you guys haven't been following us. Which follow us at Right Answers Mostly on Instagram. Please. Yeah, we're doing a panel at No Way House on July 18th. They want to ask us about what we're doing. And we're just going to talk to the kids and talk about growth and how you can have a successful podcast without being an influencer or celebrity. Yeah, that's a thing apparently. We're doing it. We're doing it. We're still here. We would like to try to influence a little bit, but we'll see. Yeah, we wouldn't say no. Yeah, we would not say no at all.

Let's do it. Okay, should we get into this? Yeah, I'm excited. I'm really excited. Enough small talk. Yeah, I'm like, where have we been? And where are we?

Where are we going? I'm really not okay. It's okay. But this episode is like okay not to be okay for. This is perfect. I'm like going to like lay down at some point. You just chill. You just soak this all in, Claire. I'm ready. Okay. So today we are talking about the one, the only, the infamous site, Ashley Madison. You may have seen the Netflix documentary recently. It kind of had a moment and people have been talking about it a little bit more. I want to watch it, but I still haven't because of this.

Perfect. This is my documentary. Perfect. Okay. I'm going to start with sources. I'm going to ask you a question after that. We're going to do it a little differently today. Okay. Just to mix it up. And that's, I told you, I have a discussion point that we may cover that I want to talk to you about at some point. Okay. Perfect. So sources. Forbes. Ah. Forbes. Wait. Have we used Forbes before? We've used Forbes, but we've never assigned Forbes? No. Okay. Okay.

If Time, let's say, is our grandpa, peppermint and tobacco, Forbes might be our other grandpa. Wow. Times is like our comforting grandpa. Yes. And Forbes is our scary grandpa, but it's so rich and like you are grateful for the wealth, but like. Yes. And he is very generous, but he does not give you a lot of love. Yes, exactly. And it's like he will pay for everything. He will like pay for the whole vacation. Yeah.

He paid for your college tuition, but he still doesn't give you a hug. And then sometimes he'll get drunk and say something really personal that you're like, Grandpa Forbes said that? Yes, like he's reminiscing on when you learned to ride a bike and he's getting a little choked up and you're like, what? Okay, so question. Is time our mom's dad? Maternal or paternal? I mean, it has to be mom, right? God, but sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes there's like...

Right? I'm thinking of the parent chap. Same. Okay, so let's just keep it in the 90s sphere. So Times is our maternal grandpa. And then Forbes is our paternal grandpa. Yes, and then there's a lot of trauma. I'm like, huh. So do you think that Times is married to PBS? They have to be because Forbes wouldn't be married to PBS. No, Forbes would not be married to PBS. Yes.

I love her family tree. We have to come up with a Forbes grandma soon. We'll find her. She's out there. I'm almost like- We may have already found her. I know, because I'm almost like, what was Vanity Fair? Oh, Vanity Fair. Was that our aunt? It was like the chic aunt who had smoked cigarettes. We're going to find her. We're going to find her. Let us know if you guys already have an idea. Yeah. Okay, so we have Forbes. We have the Ashley Madison doc on Netflix, Wikipedia, of course, and Betches. Oh. I feel like-

It's not a thing this episode. I can't like say to you like you're a boss bitch. Like it sounds so annoying. So I have to like make it weird. You're a boss bitch. And also you're not supposed to say that anymore apparently. A boss bitch? Like the boss bitch and boss babe is like very 2016 and be like why can't women just be bosses? You've been thinking about that as it came out. It's just everything's exhausting. Let us just speak. Well they don't like when we speak Claire. They don't. They don't like when we speak. Did you guys see that review? Sorry about it.

Little bullies. I know. Okay. To finish up sources, I'm like, Tess, you can get through this. Then we got some stats because we're going to be talking some statistics that I think is interesting from Institute of Family Studies and YouthGov today. Wow. Well-rounded. So, Claire, we're going to start off with a light question. Let's go. Why do you think people cheat? Can we get Jax Taylor on the pod? I mean, literally. He should have hosted this episode. It all goes back to Bravo. Why do people cheat?

I think that we're always chasing a high. And so I think that when people get comfortable, they're like, I need to feel those butterflies again that you don't feel in long-term relationships. And there's like gorgeous, but people cheat in not long-term relationships either. But I do think it's chasing a high. I agree. Do you think like cheating is like an addiction? I think it can be. Yeah. I think it can. I think it's circumstantial. Yeah. Which brings me to my question, actually, if I may. Yes.

Do you believe once a cheater, always a cheater? I knew that this would come up sometime today. I have mixed feelings about it. I think my instinct, my instinct is to say yes based on what I have seen in my life, based on experiences, based on... Have you been... I don't think I actually have ever been cheated on and I've never cheated on anyone before. Yeah, I don't think I... Actually, I think I have once.

that I didn't know about. Been cheated on? Yeah, probably. Yeah, I mean, I think probably my first boyfriend cheated on me. Like, I got a call once and someone was like, he was holding hands with some other girl at a concert. And I was like, yeah, they probably hooked up. That has happened to me before too. So maybe that's been more than once. And then it's an interesting question too of what do we decipher as cheating? Mm-hmm.

Emotional cheating, physical cheating, holding hands, a peck, make out. Totally. And people have their different boundaries with that. They do. Which like I respect. Well, that's what I think with the like once a cheater, always a cheater. I think it's circumstantial. Like I think if you cheated on someone when you were in high school, like do I think you're always going to be a cheater in your life? No. But like –

I don't know. I think it's just, for me, it is such a despicable thing to do to someone that if you have that in you, I do believe it can go one or two ways. One, that you're like, I'm never doing that again. Or I think like, it's hard for me to think of, I don't know. But I also like, there's some personal things in my life and childhood that like make me feel strongly about it. But it's also, it is like one of those things where it's like, it's such a, to me, I'm with you. It's such a

A boundary that it's like once you cross that, it's just easier to do it again. Exactly. And I think like affairs are despicable. Affairs are despicable?

You go home after and then you also have sex with your husband or wife? That is also one thing. It's one thing to cheat on someone once, like a slip, and then to continue. What? For what? Literally for what? And to look at someone in the eyes for weeks or months or years. I mean, some people have ongoing affairs. And I'm just like, you are being a coward. Make sure no one sees you leave. Put your hood up. How does that song go? Illicit Affairs? Oh, I listened to it on the way over here. Na, na, na, na.

I love that song. That was not it at all, but you guys know. I mean, yeah. So I think affairs are just crazy. Affairs, I'm like, you should be sent to jail. Jail. Like truly, to do that to someone. And I know we all do make mistakes when we're younger and stuff, but I think when you are in a long-term relationship, married, have kids, to cheat is the most selfish thing that you can do. And it's like, just tell the person-

Not into it. Also, if you want to stick around for your kids, you know what? Really bad decision. They are going to feel the brunt of that and they are going to hate you later. Forever. And rightly so. Are you listening to us out here? All you cheaters. So just to like get that out of the way of like, we don't like it. No, for sure. Trash, trash, trash. Not for us. Not for us. Just don't do it. You know, like, good God. So I thought it'd be interesting just to like think of...

this, you know, kept it to this country about cheating. Cause I was just like, the world gets to, we don't have the time. There's also like different, like I have a friend who's Italian and she's like, yeah, that's just what men do. They just cheat. Yeah. Speaking to an Italian directly. Yeah. The, you know, uh,

The culture. The toxic masculinity. It's alive and well in Italia. Very alive and well. So Claire, most Americans, 63% who have been in a monogamous relationship, say that they have never cheated on a partner.

Okay. Guys, it's only 63%. That's crazy. So it should be like 80 at least. Does that mean 37% then have cheated? What was it? 56? 63%. Oh. I don't know. I almost passed out earlier. I can't do math. And I didn't, but you know I can't just do it on a good day. Yeah. Oh, 33%. Okay. I have it right here. 33% say they have cheated either physically, emotionally, or both. Well, I'm glad that they like...

you know, put emotional in there because some people will just be like, that doesn't count. Yeah. Yeah, it does. Oh, then I guess I have emotionally cheated. I had feelings for someone. Yeah. Once. And I didn't do anything about it until the end of the relationship. But I did. I mean, same. Yeah. Yeah.

But I was young. So were you. Same. Yeah, I was 25, but I was really in it. I was like, but daddy, I love him. But daddy, I love him. And my partner was like, I think you love him. And I was like, I am just friends with him. I know. And I don't want to say too much about that relationship. But to be fair, it's not like... He was also putting me through hell. And he was kind of also cheating on me in his own way. He definitely was. You could say. I would say so. So...

Okay. But then this is interesting. So when asked about their experience being cheated on, more than half, 54% of those who have been in a monogamous relationship say they have been cheated on, which you could say that people lie about it. Like lying about cheating. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. So people are like, nah, nah, nah. That wasn't cheating. And then their partners are like, yeah, it was. Yeah. 39% of men stay with their partners who cheat.

after they have figured it out. All right, let's hear this big number for the women. And 48% of women stay with their partners. I'm surprised it's not bigger. I know, but it is. I mean, that's like a 10% difference. Yeah, that's a chunk. And we will see that today. Oh, God. And that is interesting. And I think we see that a lot. We see that a lot in Bravo, even people going on a...

the Today Show and holding hands and you know we I think that's like ingrained to me as like a young girl being like oh she's like standing by her man stand by your man there's literally that Tammy Wynette song that's called stand by your man and it's crazy the episode of the monocle and ski yeah it's Hillary Clinton out in a field or out by the ocean yeah

And that song is playing. Oh, which is the perfect song for that. And you're just like, I mean, yeah, that's like, I mean, Hillary Clinton, that's a whole nother conversation of her staying with Bill Clinton. Right, right. So. And it's like, why are we mad at the woman when the man is the one who cheated? Exactly. And we see that time and time again. I'm like, wow, you're not going to leave him. And I think it's hard because there is like frustration and that can come out as judgment of like, you deserve better. Exactly, exactly. And you just want women to like, you want to raise the bar for women. Totally. Yeah.

But it's complicated. Yeah. Okay. So what the fuck is Ashley Madison? Do you know what it is, Clay? It is a website that you can sign up for. It's like for married people or people in, I don't know if it's married or long-term relationship, but to cheat. Yes. So I don't know if, like, is everyone married on the site or are there some single people looking to hook up with some married people? It is mostly people in a relationship or married. Okay.

So it is a Canadian online dating service and social. Canadian? This is for you, Canadian Rammies. You guys always are such sweet little angels. And look at you having a dark little side. It's always the quiet ones. It really is always the quiet ones. We're thinking of you guys. Yep. It launched in 2002, marketed towards married or relationship, people in a relationship who were looking to have an affair. Do you know the website slogan, Claire?

Oh, I think you've said it before, but I don't remember now. Life is short. Have an affair. Guys, guys. Sweetheart. Life is short. Emotionally wreck your partner. Like, that is crazy.

He's selfish. There are no repercussions for your actions. So it was founded, and I would like to know all of these men's childhood traumas. Mommy issues. By Darren J. Morgenstern and Noel Bitterman, who was CEO for a long time. We're going to be talking about Noel quite a bit because he was really like the face of the company.

And most of the employees were male. Most of the people running this were, color me surprised, were just boys being boys. So my apparently, oh, actually, I'll say it at the end.

You're like, I know someone on it and I'm going to. I don't know someone personally on it. I'll just go ahead and say it. Shout out to Gina, my fellow Arkansas girly. When like an Ashley Madison scandal, which I'm sure we're going to talk about, came out. It was she's like every dad like not. I don't know. I'm actually speaking for her. But there was a ton of people in her hometown. That's like all these men. It was just exposed. It's crazy. It's crazy.

It's crazy. Yeah, so we're going to talk a little bit about Noel's background because how do you run a company like this and why, you could say. And was he publicly being like, this is my baby? Oh, yeah. He was publicly being like, this is my baby with his wife doing press. What? What?

Yep. We're going to talk about it. Okay, let's go. And it's a wild ride. Let's go, girls. Okay, so Noel Bitterman graduated from Osgoode Hall Law School. I assume that's somewhere in Canada. Tell us, Canadian Rammies. And began his career as a lawyer and a sports agent.

Lawyer and sports agent? Yeah. For some reason, that just screams scary. Scary cheating. Yes, it does. It does. Not to be stereotypical, but also, that's my feeling when I read that. Yeah. According to his website, he represented 47 professional athletes around the globe, including the NBA, NFL, as well as members of Canada's Olympic team. The father of two worked for companies like Inter Performances, Inc.,

Home Stores Inc. and Jump TV before he was appointed the CEO of Ashley Madison in 2007. So he didn't start it because it started, I can't believe it started in 2012. It's like the internet is going and people are already like, I know what we need. In 2002. That's it. Yeah, that's what I meant. That's crazy. So it was founded by this guy, Darren, um,

But then Noel took over and was really like, he ran the show. And then he brought one of his childhood best friends who's in the documentary. He kind of looks like Elton John, like wore like big glasses. And I was like, oh, this is also not what I expected. So his friend Evan back to serve as vice president of sales. And together they were a dream team to some people. Oh, God.

They just had like they implemented an aggressive marketing strategy together. That included Noel frequently appearing on news programs and daytime TV to promote the site, often with his wife, Amanda. Okay, I'm just confused on like what talk show is going to be like. And up next, we have The Way to Cheat.

So it's interesting because you see them having both like challenges and then major success in the way that they do press because some people are like absolutely not like ABC and NBC. Oh, ABC would never. They're not going to be like, come on, unless they get press where it's like, you know, someone wants to challenge them and someone wants to sort of like debate with them. Yeah. Yeah.

But a lot of people, like, it is just, it's kind of like, well, it's all bad press. Like, is that even good press? Because, like, they were very highly advertised. So even when people were like, we're going to have Noel on and we're going to tell him, like, what a scum he is, he's like, this is great for me. Yeah, he's like, I'm still going to reach an audience. Fox News probably never could have a mom because everyone who worked there probably was participating in the website. Exactly. Allegedly. They're like, it's too close to home. They're like, don't bring him in here. Allegedly. Yeah.

Some employees were women, but mostly it was just the customer service department was women and everyone else that were in charge were men. Customer service. Oh, yeah. Because, of course, if you have questions, if the site goes down, if you're wondering why your credit card isn't working, you have to talk to someone, Claire. Oh, you have to pay. Oh, yeah. You have to pay to play. Oh, God. You're...

Oh, my God. Oh, Claire, you have to pay to play. It just gets worse. So they decided to name it Ashley Madison because it comes from two of the most popular female names in North America at that time, Ashley and Madison. They're like, they're hot names. If you guys watch Southern Charm, you know, Madison, Madison. If I were to make a website of the most popular names that I know, I think it would be called Haley Lauren.

Oh, wow. Wow. That's good, Claire. Thank you. That's going to be my cheating fight. Yeah, good. I hope that you make one modeled after this. Of course. So what was the business model like? Let's talk about it. Let's talk about what you had to do and the process of getting on. So unlike Match.com or eHarmony, Ashley Madison's business model is based off credits rather than subscriptions. What this means is

For a conversation between two members, one of the members, always the man, must pay eight credits to initiate the conversation. Any follow-up messages between the two members are complimentary after starting communication.

And then Ashley Madison also has a real-time chat feature where credits buy a certain time allotment. So it's almost like, okay, if you want to go talk to this woman for 30 minutes, you got to up your credit. Okay. And then this is all a part of the thrill, I feel. So is that woman who's on there, is she married? Or we'll get to it. We'll get to it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Because I almost want to save something shocking for the end. Save it. Save it. Okay. So I...

I assume, let's assume for the purpose of this episode, everyone on here is married. Okay, got it. No one is on here that's like, oh, I want to hook up with a married man, like everyone or a married woman and I'm single. Everyone is like, we're looking to both collectively step outside of our relationships. I just feel like women, like you're smarter than this. You know what I mean? Me too, Claire. You know what I mean? Me too. Yeah.

So, the website allows users to hide their account profiles for free. Users looking to delete their accounts, even those made without the individual's consent, which, like, there's... Oh, that's cruel. That's fucked. I know. Like, guys, come on. That's mean to do that to someone. It's so mean. That's scary. And, like, you could just easily do that. This is 2007. Like, this is before, like...

That's scary. This is like some dark times of the internet. People are learning that you can catfish. Yeah, this was like the time of catfish. Well, this is your time. This was my time. I'm surprised that I never just went on for research purposes. No kidding. In like middle school. Just like logging on to Ashley Madison in the computer lab at school. I'm like, what's going on in here? I'm like buying credits. So even these users looking to delete their accounts, no matter if it's fake, if it's real, $19 fee.

The full delete option claims to remove all profiles, all messages sent and received, site usage history, personally identifiable information, and photos. So they're like, it's going to cost you if you want to wipe this, essentially. $19, though? I don't know. I don't trust that it's wiping it. Interesting, Claire. Yeah. I'm just going to keep going. Yeah, keep going. And before 2016, they had a guarantee on their website.

What do you think that guarantee is? Like no one will ever find out you're on this website. We don't talk about Fight Club. It's truly like this is the most safe private community and you guaranteed you will find someone and fuck them. Essentially. That was their guarantee. They're like, you're going to get laid on this site? Yeah.

No matter what. Your wife is never going to find out about it. Okay, guys, come on. Which also like legally don't use that so like freely. Wow, Elle Woods. Yeah. Such a great point, Tess. Yeah, I'm like, don't ever just, don't put guarantee. No, you really can't.

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Rammies, I'm going to let you in on a little secret, and I'm going to say something that you probably have never heard a soon-to-be bride say, and that is that I love wedding planning. I have had such an amazing, fun, light experience doing it with my fiance, and that is a huge thanks to Zola. So with Zola, you can plan your entire wedding in one convenient place.

You guys, they have everything. So from like the day you get engaged, you can start planning on Zola. You can find the venue there. You can create your save the dates. You can make your registry. You can make your wedding website. Even to the final stages of tasting your cake, Zola has everything.

everything you need to make this process super easy and fun. And this should just be a pleasurable experience that you get to share with someone you love. And I'm really appreciative that Zola has just let us do that. There's even a five-star app that helps you plan on the go on your couch. So if you and your future husband or wife are watching a movie, having a glass of wine, plan your way

Plan your wedding from the couch. Do it wherever you want because this is all about you. So here's what you're going to do. You're going to start planning at Zola.com. That's Z-O-L-A.com. You can thank me later. So it says, if you don't successfully find what you're looking for, we will give you your money back.

Oh my God, you know so many men were like... That's what customer service. Yeah. I have yet to fuck someone. Give me my money back. Screaming at these women on the other end. They're like, I do not make enough money for this. No, they definitely did not. So to qualify, users had to purchase the most expensive package, send more expensive priority messages to 18 unique members each month for three months, send five Ashley Madison gifts per month, and a gift is like...

Honestly, this is kind of the start of what I think of as a rose on hinge, you know? Yeah, because you give a rose on hinge, and what's that do? And now I think you have to pay for a rose, right? I think you do, too. A rose? Do you remember Facebook GIFs? Oh my God, those were kind of haunting. What was the point of them? They were so haunting. You're like, give your friend a Starbucks gift card now. It was so weird. Did you ever give people GIFs? I don't think so.

I don't know. Weird. Weird. But so clearly they're like, we want you participating as much as possible. You have to participate. Oh yeah. And it's like, if you want more women, you got to get more like credits. Like it's all just like that rush you were talking about the adrenaline high. And it's also so smart to like make them so active. It's pretty smart business model. I mean, I'm going to give that to them. They're sleazy assholes, but I'm like, not bad. Not bad. Um,

and engage in 60 minutes of paid chat per month. Does it have to be with the same person or like just overall 60 minutes? Overall, yeah. But if it's going well, like that's great for you. I mean, this is all an affair, I forget. In the context of these people doing a terrible thing, yeah, they're like, oh, not bad. And also like-

Yeah, it's just that rush. I'm sure if they're talking to someone for two minutes and it's like a lot of people on the site, I don't know like percentage wise, didn't ever actually go meet up with someone. I was going to ask that. It's a lot of like even signing up is step one and being like I'm just looking and I get to like see what other women are out there. Step two is like we're going to chat and never meet up. And then step three is like we're going to meet up once. And then step four is like we're having a full-blown affair. I'm sure there also was like –

You know, why don't you, like, here's our number so we can talk over the phone. Like, stuff like it probably grew in other ways. And they did say there were, like, more men than women use the service. Oh, yeah. With the disparity increasing as they advance in age, men seek sex while women seek passion. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that's life, I feel. True. Unfortunately. It is true. Being straight is just such an enigma, isn't it? I know. Like, what? I know. Like, different species. Different species. It's crazy. That's how you know sexuality is not a choice, people. No. I'm like, good God. I'm reminded of it every day. Every day.

And like we've talked about that, like, okay, we can say that they're disgusting, but their advertising is kind of smart. Like, it's crazy, but it's smart. So a lot of networks were like, they would pitch to have ads before the Oscars, Grammys, Super Bowl. And they were like, no, no, no, no, absolutely not. But then a lot of other TV stations were like, nah, we can get some money from this. And like, why not? Their advertisements, Claire, are like low budget ads.

college-like movies that you make with your friends that you're like giggling in the background and the camera's shaking. Oh, God.

And the actors are so bad. And so I watched a couple and it's literally like, looks like it was made in iMovie has like the worst transitions. And there's these two people waking up in bed and they like look at each other and then they like start kissing. And there's a voiceover that's like, these two people are married. And then they like look away and then it goes, but not to each other. Oh my God. And then it just says Ashley Madison. And it like looks like it's about to go into like a porn. Yeah.

I mean, that's what, like, then there's a fade out. That's kind of what I was thinking when you were, like, low budget. Oh, for sure. I mean, it looks like, and maybe that was all part of the marketing strategy of, like, let's have this look like a cheap porno. Well, also, if you can make it for cheap and then, like, you, you know, whatever, it's

It makes also people when you're watching it, yeah, be like, what is this? I have to know more. I know. I know. It's crazy. Wow. And when they're promoting it and when like Noel is talking about it, he believes what he is saying. The language that he uses is like, this helps people.

And why deny yourself pleasure if you're thinking about it? There's a missing space for like making it happen and that like we should be able to do something about it. Marriage is hard. You should make it easier. Everyone cheats anyway. So just go for it. Okay. It's,

so selfish. Why deny yourself pleasure? Why deny yourself pleasure? Then you have to get out of the relationship that you're in. Why deny yourself pleasure and why ruins someone else's life? Exactly. Marriage is hard. Yeah. Everyone knows that going in. If you don't want to deal with it, then don't get married. It is so crazy. It's so selfish. It's just disgusting. It really is crazy that this man is holding hands with his wife and they're like, this is a really great, it's a great company for people that like

are doing it out like where we make it easier for like the inevitable with this wife i want to be like blink twice if you're okay we'll talk about it we'll talk about it god so claire how many people do you think are using this like around 2015 a million bajillion 37 million no what no i was joking oh claire in 40 different countries

37. That makes me so sad. And that's why those stats earlier, I'm like, yeah, you guys, come on. Only 33% have cheated. I mean, the world is a big place. And like I said, these are not people that are like, not every single one of these 37 million people are going out and having intercourse with someone else. But they're on it. They're looking. They're chatting. To me, if I'm in a relationship with someone and you even go on the site to just like see

No. Then please just leave me. Oh, my God. No. Or I'm going to leave you, actually. Please just leave me. Please just tell me before it gets even worse. No. And I'm not saying like, but they're, I'm not using that as like a defense of like some people aren't going on. I'm just giving a picture. No, no, no. Of course we know. We know what side you're on. But like, God, I mean, yeah, even if you go, even if you log on. When I logged on for research purposes, Kunal came in and it was really funny. He took a picture of me just from afar. Wait.

Wait, you logged on recently? I didn't make an account, but I went to the homepage. Put it on the RAM card. That's what Kunal said. He's like, you could. I was too. I felt even gross. For a second, I was like, what? I want to see what it looks like. And I was like, absolutely not. It is gross. I'm not giving people my credit card information. No, no, no, no, no, no. Even the homepage, you guys, which we'll post on our Instagram, so go look at it. It's just like gross and sleazy. Yeah, of course. It's a woman like hushing with her lips with her red nail polish. I'm just like, I hate you all. It's tacky and I hate you.

So, Claire, on July something, 2015, you know what happens? There's a leak. There is a hack. Oh, I loved whoever hacked that. The message that haunts Ashley Madison and its million users forever. So all the employees go into the office just like another day. Where is the office? Oh, Canada. Canada. I think it's in... Sorry, guys. I think Toronto. Toronto?

But it could be Vancouver. One of those. Very different sides. Very different sides. So everyone just goes in, you know, like it's a normal Monday morning. Getting their coffee. I do imagine the Ashley Madison office being like the Wolf of Wall Street office. It kind of looks like that. It's very like modern and like glass doors. And then being like, we're partying. Yeah, exactly. It's not like, it doesn't seem like a safe, warm, inviting, feminine space. Modern.

Much like Lisa Frank. Yeah, truly. Yeah. Shockingly. Same but different. Yep. So they walk in and they go to their computers and they're like, what is that message on? The computer. And none of the computers will turn on. And there is just a text on the desktop. And it says, we are the impact team. We have taken over all systems in your office and production domains.

Ashley Madison must shut down immediately and permanently within 31 days. And they're like, I mean, like they've gotten like, they've gotten hacked. I just, I don't, I don't know if we know who it is, but God, I hope it's a group of women being like, we've had damn near enough.

I pray. I pray it is. I pray it is. So they go on to threaten that they're going to release all people in the database, their sexual fantasies, nude photos, messages between people and ruin these millions of people's lives. And guys, they had 37 million customers at this point. Let us not forget.

So you're sending nude photos on the site? That's silly. I don't think like... Always cut out your face. Yeah. Well, that is... Up until a point. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, guys, we love a nude. Love a nude. You know, always be safe about it. Yeah. But hey, yeah, just cover your face until you're with someone that you're like, whatever. Yeah, exactly. Sorry, Deb, but you know how it goes. Sorry, Cindy. You got to keep the spark alive. You got to keep the spark alive. Or you got to start the spark, you know? Sometimes you just look good and you're like, I want to remember my body like this. And that is like such a good thing.

I kind of am for a second. And we talked about this. What did the woman at the dog park say to you, Tess? The woman at the dog park a week before my 30th birthday, she was in her 40s. She had kids. And I was like, what advice would you give me for turning 30?

And she was like, oh, my God. She's like, you are never going to be this hot ever again in your life. Take all the nudes. She told me to take all the nudes. She's like, just look at your body in the mirror and just be like, God damn. Guys, let's all get naked and look at our bodies in the mirror right now. But it is true. And my 30th year was like the hottest year of my life. I love that because you're out of your Saturn return. Yes. And I was just like, I'm looking good. Yeah. Sorry. We digress. What an episode.

Spreading such good advice. Yeah. So ladies, just like, you know, give yourself a little pat on the back. Yeah. That's all we're trying to say, really. That is the message. So yeah, they had nudes. Sorry. They had literally everything. I think that that was nice for them to say you have 30 days. I think that's an appropriate amount of time. Oh, that's like more than inappropriate. And what did they want? Oh, just to shut down the website. All they said, shut it down. Zip it and shut it down. Okay. 30.

days? That's really gracious. But Noel is like, fuck, fuck, fuck. He's like, I don't know what to do. He is panicking. He's in full crisis mode. And he's like, we have to get a hold of some security guys in Sweden.

Oh, in Sweden. Sweden is, I feel like Swedish people, they know about security. They know. There's smart technology advances. They're just discreet. Don't most people go hide their money in Sweden if you're trying to- Is that not Switzerland, like a Swiss bank? Oh, maybe it is Switzerland. I always get those two confused. Same. I don't know what goes on over there. Me either. So they call these guys, and Noel hops on the phone, and he's like, Joel, I need you. Joel and Noel. Joel and Noel.

Besties, my bro. And he was like, fly over and help us immediately. And he was like, I'm on it. So Joel brings his friend Andre and they're like this cyber security team. And they come in and I just imagine them walking in and closing their eyes with gloves and just not speaking and just starting to type. And they're very tall and blonde because they're Swedish. Exactly. Truly. It's the Skarsgård brothers. That's kind of what I picture. Just like they don't say a lot, but they know. They know. They know how to hopefully solve this.

So in 2015, revenue from Ashley Madison was $109 million. So you can see Noel's panic of being like, I want to still be rich and this website's going so well. I don't want to shut it down. But also, how much money have you been making, Noel? I know. I wonder what his... Let's see. Oh, God. This is not where we are. I'm like, how much money was he gaining from this? Who knows? Because we don't know the business model.

I'm assuming he's making, let's even say, $10 to $20 million. What's that say? Multi-million. For sure. And he's like, fuck, I promise these people secrecy. But I think he really just cares about his own reputation. Oh, yeah. No, I don't think he cares about that. So the Swedish guys go into the office and they get into work. They go into an office, a room in headquarters called...

The Clinton Room. Oh, God. Because, yes, they did name different rooms about people that have cheated and affairs at this office. I hate that. It's a joke. It's a joke. I hate that. It's fucking crazy. What are some of the other ones? I don't know. Well, I mean, that's... What are other really famous affairs? Like, what's the old Hollywood affair? Humphrey Bogart. Oh, Humphrey Bogart. Was that an affair? Ava Gardner. Did they have an affair? No.

I don't know. Oh, probably Marilyn and- Oh, and JFK. Also, like, the Brangelina room. Yeah. Hopefully they're pop culture girlies too, you know? Yeah. They're like, honestly, like, we listen to Ram and we listen to the Brangelina episode. Check it out. Check it out. It's fun. And very sad. Yeah. Very, very sad. So the Swedish guys are like, relax. Nothing has been leaked yet and we need to stay focused. They're like, you know the first thing that you do when you're hacked? What?

Find out what's the motivation. What is the intention? So they're like, these people, interestingly enough, they're not after money. They're not after recognition. They just want it to be gone. So like, let's brainstorm and think of like who this is and why. Right.

perhaps it's like a religious person that is so like morally against this. I don't know. I feel like there's so many religious people on the site. But yes, okay. No. There could be one religious person. Oh, there's a lot of religious people on the site, Claire. Mostly religious people. Josh Duggar. Sorry to even say his name on this podcast. And now he said it. And now he said it. Could it be a disgruntled customer? Could it be someone who found out a spouse, their spouse was using the website and they got the girlies together and they're like, let's

I love that. They think he did it, but they just can't prove it. So it's clear that people are pissed. Whoever this is, they're like, Ashley Madison is not having a good reputation. Let's find some traces. The Swedish bros go into the account. They go into the system. They find something interesting. In some log file, they see the VPN number. You know like a VPN number? It's like – No. No.

It's like if you go to a different country and you have to watch Peacock, you go on VPN. It's like a different... How do you guys explain this? When I was in Europe last, I couldn't watch Peacock and it was upsetting. I know. I know. I didn't even think about it. I was like, we should have downloaded things for you. Yeah. It was a whole thing. But they see that this VPN number, VPN X51, was something that had been used by a previous contractor. Yeah.

A contractor that's worked for the... Yeah, wasn't an employee, but someone that came in to do something. And they were like... Everything is traceable, huh? Everything is traceable. Guys, just remember. For better or for worse? Scary. Scary. So they were like, okay, this is someone that has been here before. Someone that... So they're digging, digging, digging. And this takes...

A week to even like get anywhere. Wow. Because it's crazy when he was like, get over here now. I'm like, well, no, you do have 31 days. But like it takes time, I guess. It takes time. Yeah. So like it took seven days to even find that VPN thing. And the hackers are getting impatient, Claire. Oh, yeah.

So what does the impact team do? They release a public statement to push it and to threaten them even more. And they're like, hey, we have all the names. We have all the data. We're about to leak it. So they don't release who's on it. But now the public knows. It is national news. It is being made fun of on Jimmy Kimmel and SNL and late night talk shows. Everyone's like 37 million really scared husbands and wives that are like,

I would love to know what newscaster had to do that announcement. And it's like a, oh, bead of sweat. That's true. It showed the announcements of like around the world. And some people like are literally like, we have some very disappointing news. And other people are like, some website, like some people are like, this is so frivolous and dumb. And other people are like, this is really serious. And this is like a cyber attack on the world. Yeah.

So it's chaos. That's when the phone calls start coming in. This one customer service woman in the documentary was like, I have never in my life seen such panic. And I truly felt heartbroken for these men that were calling in. Wow. Okay. Let's not give them grace here. But that's like the power of a woman to find. I still feel bad.

But daddy, I love him. But daddy, I love him. It's applicable to everything. It's so true. Oh, God. Would not want to clock into work that day. Absolutely not. Sometimes you really earn your paycheck. Exactly. And this was, yeah, should have gotten a raise earlier.

Um, so Noel is freaking out. They think that they may have found someone. Andrea's like, okay, I think I found that one contractor we were talking about. Everything is kind of like matching up. Let's meet with him in a diner and see what he says. And Andrea's like, give him hard cash. Offer him six figures to like say it was me. And then what is six figures?

Like $100,000. Okay, got it, got it, got it. It could have been $250,000. I'm not sure, but they said six figures in cash to let them have the website back, whatever it is. So they meet up with this guy at this diner. His name has never been public. And this guy is like, I have literally nothing to do with this. And they were like, please, we have the cash right here. And he was like, go fuck yourself. I'm hiring a lawyer. So he was like, this is not me. And you guys have overstepped.

So he was set free, and now they're literally like, we have no idea. Even the Swedish bros are like, there's no way to trace this. God, when you stump the Swedish bros, you know you're in trouble. So what does... The tapes are released. What do they do? The names are leaked. Shari Deshay, but not sorry at all. On August 18th, and then another set of names on August 20th, 2015, the Impact team released Ashley Madison's client files.

News outlets search to find celebrities, politicians, other high-profile figures with accounts.

And the names were coming out and... Where? Where are they coming out? Like everywhere. Like they were on news articles. Okay. So it's just like... It was released on a website or like... It was released... I don't know exactly where they released it. But then, I mean, it was immediately on every source. Yeah. Sources were just picking it up. People, BuzzFeed, like, I mean, it was just...

Truly everywhere. And people were kind of making fun of it. And people were just like, damn, there was like politicians that were requesting to be defecated on and urinated on. Oh, my God. A lot of BDSM, a lot of straight men seeking to have sex with another couple, including a man. Like people were like...

Oh my god. And it's like, it just sucks because you don't want to yuck someone's yums as long as everyone is safe and consensual. Exactly. But then it's like, yeah, you're on the side to cheat. This is not just like a safe place where single people are going to, you know. Exactly. Get their... Get your rocks off. Kicks. Kick your rocks. Kick your rocks off. Kick your rocks off. Get your rocks. Get your kicks off.

You guys know what we're saying. It's gross because this is not an okay moral thing. Exactly. So that I do understand. Oh, I bet there were so many politicians. Asked me if I pooped on? Mm-hmm. Defecated. Defecated. I was like, how do you? I was like, I'll say defecated. That's nice. Proper. Should we talk about some of the names?

some of the names. Yes, let's get into it. So, as you already mentioned, Josh Duggar. Josh Duggar. Disgusting. Like, literally the epitome of trash, trash, trash. Not for us. I feel sick even saying his name. We should. Sam Radar. So, he and his wife, Naya, Nia, Naya, are in the documentary. They were YouTube stars. They kind of got famous right when the Ashley Madison leak happened. They

had children together.

He worked as a nurse and she was a stay-at-home mom. And they got famous by doing lip syncing to, love is an open door. I don't – sometimes I just really don't understand the internet. It's crazy. And so they were like in the car and they're like doing the back and forth. And they got like 200 million views or something. And then they blew up. So then they started vlogging as like the perfect married couple. And everyone was like, oh my god, he's such a good father. You don't want to do that. And they're so in love.

And then the leak came out and he was like on the list because he was like kind of famous at the time. And they talk in the documentary. Okay, this is for all the Bravo girlies. We have to talk. We have to talk about it, Tess. Josh Taichman, who was the husband of Kristen Taichman on Real Housewives of New York. Was she on 2015? Yeah.

Was she on? I think it was because remember like this Carol, I think she must've been on. So I'm just at season six. She starts in season five. Season six is all about like her storyline is how much she and Josh are fighting. It's so sad. He is, she's so gorgeous and smart and funny. I really like Kristen and he tells her to lose her pooch on her tummy. And she has like probably a 12 pack.

He, even if she didn't, you don't say that. Of course not. He attacks her for not having food on the table and being a normal wife when he gets home from being an entrepreneur. I'm such a shock that this man was on this website. Uh-huh. I hate, I hate this man. They're still together. They're still together. And so she never talks about it on Roni because it may have come out like

after she had finished. I don't know. I think you might be right, actually. Like the next year or something. I think so. I think it was like right after because you know that. Think about how Ramona would have attacked her. Ramona would have ate that up even though I'm sure... I'm surprised. Wait, was Mario on there? No, but...

I'm shocked that Mario, I mean, Mario cheated on Ramona. I think Mario just like went to bars and like, did we ever find out who he cheated on? It was a younger woman. Yeah. Mario is so gross. All of these men in vintage Roni. I was literally like, I'm going to puke. All of them are gross. Even like Jacques was like, you guys are all toxic. Um,

And what Josh Takeman told people in December 2020, I signed up for the site foolishly and ignorantly with a group of friends. Just be like, we were just messing around. And I deeply apologize for any embarrassment or pain I have brought to my wife and family. Yeah, okay. You signed up jokingly with your friends and then continued to participate. Exactly. Hunter Biden. Oh, wow. Yeah. Also said, I created one, but I never went out and cheated. You guys, shut up. The husband of Snooki.

Joni Lavelle I was never a Jersey Shore girl Me either And guess who the last person is Claire that was on the list I mean there were so many people Someone that's very close to this story That we've been talking about The entire time

No. Well, come on. You have to use your products. Like if you're not using your product. He's like, I'm just trying to test it to help the algorithm. I can't even use it and be a believer in it. Then how can I promote it? Exactly. So, yes, CEO Noel Bitterman himself and his wife is still with him today.

Not only Noel was cheating on his wife, but he was frequently getting escorts and specifying that he wanted them 18 or 19 years old. Oh, that's disgusting. So I do think that a few, whatever percentage it may be, were then escorts. Yeah, that were just on there to chat. Totally, and be like, I'm trying to get paid. Make a buck. Yeah. See, that's like what I picture more than even like married women. We will talk. Oh, okay, okay. Great, great.

Okay, so who hacked it? Who do you think hacked it? The girlies? Claire, it was never found out. What? It was never found out. Sorry for that screech. Who hacked it? But there are theories of a disgruntled spouse of a user, the work of a religious group-

I don't want to give it to them. No. Bitches said that a hilarious thought is that it was spearheaded by divorce lawyers as their business was booming after this. Honestly, that would be like so smart. Smart.

Joel, our bestie cyber boy, thinks it could have been an inside job. Like, he was getting, like, excited. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a little taken away. A PR stunt. Bad press is good press. He thought it was Noel until the personal emails came out. He was like, maybe it was Noel. Maybe it was someone on the Ashley Madison team who just wanted more publicity. I mean, it is, like, such publicity. The only thing, like, about it being a spouse or, like, someone who's been burned because it's just, like –

That's so humiliating for you and your family to find out. I know. It's not like a, and then you got yours. It's like, and now we're all humiliated. I know. I know. Because that's not only when you're cheating are you hurting that person. You're making them look like a fool. Exactly. The embarrassment, the shame, the like, oh my God, I just cannot imagine. I cannot. The shame. Ugh. I really, like, I really...

Just can't imagine finding out that this list had come out, being like, of course my husband would never be on that. And then the people that were like, oh, it makes me sick. And then if there's fetishes on there. Yes, being like,

Oh my God. Oh my God. That's horrible. Do you think it's better? I mean, this is kind of a fucked up question. Tell me. Would you have a harder time if you were cheated on and it was someone like very similar to you that like looked like you or someone like entirely different and opposite? God. I know. It's not a fair question. It's not an easy question. That's so hard. I mean, neither...

Sounds great. Yeah, because on one hand, if they're like entirely opposite, then you feel like so helpless that you're just like, you're just not into me at all, clearly. Yeah. But then if it's like you, then you're like, well, what's the problem with me? I know. And you know like when you find out that like a model has been cheated on or something and everyone's like, how could he do that to her? She's so gorgeous. You would say J-Lo. It's never about...

But that – And thank you for taking it there. You know, like it's never about if you're with the hottest woman on earth, if you're with the hottest man on earth, whoever is cheating. It is about your own personal demons and your addiction. The cheater. Yeah. It has nothing to do with the person that is cheated on. That is it. But it's so hard to believe if you're being cheated on, you're like, what's wrong with me? Which is so fucked. Of course you're going to be like, am I not blank enough? Should I have been more like this? Yeah.

If you guys have ever been cheated on, like, and I hope you've gotten to that place of just knowing, like, that is for someone – that is someone's personal – Yeah. Demons. For sure. Like, it has nothing to do with you. But aside from the info leak, the reveal of CEO Noel's emails also shed a light of a lot of fraudulent behavior on the website, such as – and now, as we end and conclude the episode, we're going to get to this. Well, I'm sad. I know. I know.

Sadly. I mean, I don't know why, but I am. Well, it's been a while, right? It's juicy. Juicy. Despite claiming that many women had accounts, and that was a whole thing. They're like, both men and women are on this. This was pretty much untrue. Instead, they made fake accounts for women. Oh, my God. And they utilized bots for these women. And occasionally, customer service would be the ones typing fake messages back at them.

men. Oh my god. Of course though. The hackers ended up seeing that the accounts were all 95% of men. 95% men. Of course.

I was like, that number was crazy earlier. And they probably had maybe like, I'm guessing 1% were women just being like, I'm in a really unhappy marriage. Yes. And then the rest were bots and fake accounts. So it was all a side of men. And it's also like just shows that that's what it's about is the rush because they're not even talking to real people. Yeah. And so I think that is why a lot of them like didn't end up meeting up. Mm-hmm.

because it was just like a lot of and then how much more embarrassing that you weren't even talking to someone real all of that for what just don't hurt them like this like truly it's crazy it is crazy um and then the second thing is that they offered a service where so they you know ashley madison said that whole thing of like the guarantee and we you know are so private and safe here um

So that thing about like you could pay to have a full like deletion of your account details. That was completely fake. It did nothing. Everything was still on there. Photos, exchanges. Because I'm like, how can you really wipe it? Like I would not trust the Internet like that. You can't. You can't. You just can't. So Claire, is Ashley Madison still in business? Why, yes, it is. Oh, my God. And guess how many users it has now?

How many? 75 million users. Even more than before? Even more than before. So this was like the greatest bamboozlement of our generation. The greatest bamboozlement of the internet, maybe. Because... Of internet scandal. It just made them bigger. Yeah, people are still on it. Ashley Madison's like, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And the hackers are like, I got a list of... And Mason, yours is in red underline. 100%. I mean, God.

So it is run by a different CEO, some guy named Rob Siegel. Noel has gone on to other things. Yeah, what's all Noel up to? He's the CEO of some other company now. What's his wife up to? Still with him. Okay. Okay. And like we were talking about before, it's like, you know, it's not her fault that that happened. No.

And it's not her fault for staying. But there are certain times where it's like, okay, but at this point, that's how I feel with Khloe Kardashian and Tristan, where it's like, at what point, though, is enough enough? Yeah. And it is frustrating to watch and to see because it's like, yes, I understand if it happens and you want to fight for your family, but if someone shows you who they are, believe them. Believe them. And that must be so hard to be a friend in that situation. I mean...

I wonder if they're open. I think that like sometimes, yes, I think maybe they have to be. I'm like, how else? They have to be open. If you have children with someone and they have done this, and that's what they've done with their career too. How do you even explain like what your parents do? How embarrassing? Like it's all just like crazy. It is crazy. So yeah, that is Ashley Madison. It is a crazy story.

cheating is really gross. Wow. Tess, I love that. I'm glad that you, you were about to abandon it at one point. I think just cause like, there's not some of like the information is like missing. Like I almost was like, ah, but they never found the hackers. And like,

But they never like. And then I was like, that can just be an excuse for like more like fun conversation and stuff. Absolutely. And like it's never too late. Like who knows one day the hacker might be like, I'm ready to come out with my story. Oh, my God. And they're going to have a sit down with Ram. Oh, my God. If you're listening right now and you're the hacker, call us. Please. Like we could do 60 minutes of literally like sitting back and what was what was the loneliness like?

Deep cut Ram, you know. If you know. What was the loneliness like? Oh my God, that will always kill me. And we can both be in these chairs. Check us out on YouTube. Yeah, you need the piece of, you need to be holding a piece of paper to really feel like Katie Couric. Call us, hacker. Call us, hacker. And yeah, I mean. Wow. And get off Ashley Madison. If you're on there, just like cut it out. Just cut it out. Break up with your spouse and live your life and stop hurting people. But stop hurting people. Stop hurting people.

I'm pissed I'm pissed bitch I'm pissed bitch So that was that Sorry to our mothers to hear about us sending nudes Maybe you guys did that back in the day Actually it was probably harder to send nudes In like the 70s You had to take a film photo Did you guys ever do that? They're like stop that

Come to our panel on July 18th. Follow us on Premium for two bonus episodes a month. Yeah, we just came out with a new one on Friday. It was so fun. Yeah, it's always just so fun. It used to be more celebrity gossip, but now it's turned into like us catching up. Us catching up. No filter. Tears. Laughter. Yeah, you thought this episode was no filter? Honey. But yeah, join Premium. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Right Answers Mostly. Please send us.

Send your friends some episodes. Spread the word of Ram. Yes. Give us a five-star rating. If you were mad about that review that was rude, saying that we add SH onto everything, write another review and be like, I love it. Yeah. Someone DM'd us actually and said, I'm going to go counteract that review right now. And we appreciate that. That's why you Rammies are the cutest little things we've ever seen in our entire fucking lives. No. In our entire fucking lives. Like, you're adorable and we love when you stand up for us and when you fight people on TikTok for us. Oh, nothing is better.

better. Oh, I love it. Love it. We feel like Regina George at the top of the stairs in Mean Girls where she throws the papers and everything. Exactly. And you guys do your work and you know what to do. Yeah. You always put in the work and we love you. All right, Rammies. Well, we'll see you next week. Oh, happy 4th of July, everyone. Ah, yes. Stay safe. Yeah. Fight the injustices of our country. That is being patriotic. Don't celebrate too much. Yeah. You know? Yeah, exactly. Just get to some work, too. Yeah, exactly. All right, kids. Love you.