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In an hour, my category is going to be spray tan realness. I love that. When I woke up, I felt a little puffy from the wine. So maybe like puffy princess face. Category is face. Face.
Welcome back, Rammies. Welcome back, Rammies. Good to see you again. Happy Pride yet again. Yes, we are loving June. We are. Besides the June gloom. The June gloom in LA is always tough. It's like you truly have to get out for this month. I mean, literally, like yesterday I was having, I was panicking. I was looking at places to go. Just anywhere. Just like fucking
I know. I was wondering. I was like, is it sunnier in San Diego? Should we drive down two hours? Like we might need to. We always did. But luckily the sun broke. The sun broke yesterday. And we immediately went to get a bottle of wine. And you guys know how that turned out. And turned into perhaps a second bottle.
Kind of. Yeah. In some ways. But no, we had such a nice time. We went to Waterfront, which is where we do trivia. Which we have trivia coming up this Thursday, June 15th. We will be doing Vanderpump Rules trivia. You asked...
And we answered. And it has been the most fun coming up with questions for this. Claire already went to town. I put in our notes app. I was like, let's maybe think about some VPR questions soon. And there was about 100 on there. And I was reading them. And I was like, did you look these up? No, I actually didn't. All from memory. All from memory. It's just because...
Vanderpump Rules has been on my TV nonstop for the past two months. I mean, I was very impressed by the detail. Thank you. By the dedication. If only I worked this hard in school. If only. I know. Like math does not come easy to me. Knowing Schwartz toxic behavior comes easy to me. Of course. Knowing what tattoos all these people have on different parts of their body is like A plus. A plus. A plus plus. That I feel confident in. Same. So yeah, please come bring some friends.
Seven to nine. We have amazing prizes. Yes. We're trying to manifest some fun guests, but that might come later. That might come later. That might come from a summer party that we might have a special DJ. We just might. We've been in talks and we're just going to tease you with that. Yes. But you can make what you may out of that. You can put two and two together. Yeah. If you know you
Also, welcome to Write Answers Mostly, a podcast on what you didn't learn in history class but wanted to. We say we're like Wikipedia's drunk sister, honestly. We really are. I'm Claire. I'm Tess. And if you love our podcast, follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Write Answers Mostly. Like, we have been ticking and talking. Ticking and talking. And you know, the Jessica TikTok kind of came back today. It did.
It's so crazy when like a video shoots back into the algorithm. It feels like an X that knocks on your door and you're not ready. I wasn't ready to see you there again. But it was someone supporting us. So thank God. Because you guys know that Jessica Simpson, John Mayer TikTok, like that got a million views. Changed our lives. Did change everything. I hope she knows that we're always standing up for her. She has to feel it. I mean, she lives close enough to us. She feels the energy. Exactly. Where does she live?
And Hidden Hills. Oh, that's right. You can never forget. That's right. I would like to go visit. I would as well. Yeah, maybe. Call us. Call us, Jessica. Call us. But you have an exciting few weeks coming up, or I guess week. I know. We can have. By the time that this will be out, I will have returned from Greece. And so I'm manifesting that it was amazing. There was sunshine, lots of feta. Yeah.
So much feta. I'm going to be a block of feta by the time I return. So much fish, like the freshest fish. Do you eat octopus? I love octopus. Such good octopus. Love it. Yeah, I cannot wait. Like really crisp white wine. But yes, I'm going to Greece for a friend's wedding. And the wedding is going to be crazy, you guys. I'm literally like, is Vogue going to cover this wedding? Honestly.
maybe Kristen are you getting Vogue we are staying at this luxury hotel that they have rented out the whole hotel that is how you do it I know I'm just gonna be like I'm never gonna experience something like this again so I'm just gonna take it all in and you
will. And I'll tick talk. You will please do. Um, did you decide what you're wearing to the actual wedding? Yes. It's a reformation dress. I'll show you. Um, it's, uh, it's borrowed, but yes, it's like a long silk one. Gorgeous. I think I might know what you're talking about. Skims on point. Check out our history of shapewear and corset episode. Of course. Always blogging, always promoting. How, um, what do you have coming up? Anything exciting? Um, not really.
Only this weekend. I think just a chill weekend. We're going to have Jack Lemmon. If you listen to our friend Genevieve's episode, that is her dog. I can't believe that you're going to be watching him. I know. It's going to feel so... I'm going to like...
Like, I'm going to feel so close to you as I do it. I love that you're going to know all of his quirks. Oh, he's just so sweet. He is so sweet. So we're dog sitting. You might watch Little Women with Allison. Oh, that's right. So we went to get drinks with our friend Allison last night. Like, pounded her with being like, you have to watch Little Women. I mean, literally, we were like, if there is one movie about sisterhood, womanhood, growing up. Oh, I can't. The heartache of growing up. It is Little Women. It is.
So yeah, we, um, we'll probably watch that. And then yeah, June's pretty, pretty chill going to San Francisco at the end of the month, but have that to look forward to. Are you going to the, um, opening a pride month on Thursday? Uh, Oh, I am going to West Hollywood on Thursday with my friends, Landon and DJ. I didn't know that that was the first day, first night of pride. And so I was like, Oh, it's going to be like, it's going to be chill.
It's going to be chill. We're going to get dinner. And then I was like, we're not going to just get dinner. I'm not going to know. I'm not going to know what hit me by the end of that night. No, it's going to be. I pray for you. I pray for myself too. But God, it's going to be fun. It will be fun. Yeah. It's so nice being in West Hollywood for pride. Claire and I always say we're nostalgic for it. I used to live in West Hollywood for like six years or something.
And God, I miss it. I do too. I used to live on Crescent Heights and Fountain and that's like kind of the starting point of the parade too. So I would like go on a run in the beginning of the day to see everyone setting up and their floats. Yep. Which I probably saw the VPR cast at some point. I mean, never forget Stassi in that like champagne glass or whatever.
When she yells at Sheena for putting on lotion. Which I'm like, that isn't appropriate. And she liked it. Sheena liked it. Of course. But hey, we're not here to talk about the VPR cast, but we will. We will. But yeah. And then just like walking in the crowd for Pride. Because I didn't really know anyone at that point. But just being in the energy was amazing. I know. It's just so nice. And like...
we were talking to our friend Katie the other day of just also how like sad it is that you, there is just a little bit of nervousness with those kinds of events and like that you want to be celebrating. But then there's also just like this little bit of fear of like,
so many people and targeted and all of that. Exactly. Because it's been a crazy time, but thank God people are still resilient through it. And people show up to show like support and love. Because I remember that was one of the first things when I moved from Arkansas to LA that I was like, I've never seen like a pride flag, a rainbow flag just displayed. Wait, that's so crazy. And now like, thank God Fayetteville where I'm from has an amazing pride parade. That's huge. And like grown a lot, but
It's just so nice to see. Oh, wow. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. It's a completely different world. Such a different world. Yeah. Well, we are here.
for this for this episode to wait for this episode to get into something that we have been wanting to cover for a while and you know i'm just gonna say it let's just hop on in it is ball culture ballroom new york ball 80s fun vogue vogue i'm so excited to us all of the things um yeah i remember which we will get into um watching pose yes which is a ryan murphy show
which is an amazing show all about this time in history and, and feeling very connected to it, feeling very saddened by it too. Um, yeah, if y'all haven't seen pose, go check it out. I'm sure it's on Netflix now. Cause I think all of Ryan Murphy shows are on Netflix. Good for him. Okay. He got like a 3 million, like, I don't know, way more than that. It crazy deal with Netflix. Anyways, good God. That show is amazing though. Check it out. It's so good. Um, do you know anything about ballroom ball culture? I,
I feel like I learned a lot about it from Pose, actually. And then what I also associated with recently is that Beyonce's Renaissance album is like a love letter to the ballroom culture. That's right. You told me that. And it's so good. I mean, Alien Superstar, which is like category. Oh, it's so good. Oh, God. I just love it. Yeah. And I'm trying to think of anything else. Yeah. No. Yeah. I'm excited to learn more about it because I feel like
There's a lot to learn. There's a lot to learn. I really enjoyed. I felt very like, you know, some episodes were just like, I don't know how this is going to go. I just like really enjoyed research. Oh, good. Which is always a fun feeling. My sources were Time Magazine article, Esquire article, Rolling Stone article. Is it Rolling Stone or Rolling Stones? I think it's Rolling Stone and the band is Rolling Stones. That is right. Thank you. I believe. And a history, history.com?
article. Our mother? It truly, I was like, oh, this isn't going to be good. And I was like, this is just meaty. Our mother is mothering. That's what the kids are saying these days. And that is very representative of this episode of a mother. Oh, my God.
Oh, my God. Wow. Right. Yes. Okay. The beauty of the mother of the house. Wow. It all goes back. Exactly. So let's get into it. Ballroom. In the early 1970s, black and Latinx, gay, trans, and queer people developed a thriving subculture in house balls where they could express themselves freely and find acceptance within a marginalized community. Oh, wow.
Community. It was here where the world of drag pageantry, which often favored white contestants, evolved into competitions that spanned a variety of categories, including Vogue, which we will get into the details of that. So Vogue battles. All these events can trace their origins as far back as the late 1800s in New York. What? But drag, my friends, goes back...
So far. Do you like, do you remember hearing about sort of like cross dressing and any sort of like mythology or old? Well, I think of like, um, like Marie Antoinette era, which is very different, like kind of drag than we see now, but not really. It was just like,
cross-dressing a man dressing as a woman and a woman i feel like that happened more often this truly has been happening like we say in so many episodes where it's like oh people are mad about something now it's like yeah this has been happening for thousands of years right um so interestingly enough cross-dressing has been around for quite some time which we do see in greek mythology we see it in with hindu deities um including various forms of cross-dressing and gender switching um
The term drag is often used in discussions of William Shakespeare plays. Yes. Which, listen to our Shakespeare episode. Theater Kid episode. If you haven't, it's struggling down there. Guys, give it some love, please. It's on the bottom, the bottom that you, you know, can't go any further than that bottom. But...
Drag. So people aren't sure if like the exact origin of that word, but dragging of long robes worn by male actors when they were pretending to be female is like maybe where it kind of started getting a little bit of traction. Traction.
So, yeah, unclear if Shakespeare started that. There's definitely an origin there. And obviously, Shakespearean plays, women could not act. And so. So crazy. And so men would have to dress up as the female characters. And they liked it. Of course.
Of course. And people have always liked dressing up and expressing themselves and being creative. Exactly. And if you're a man who wears a dress that says nothing about your sexuality, you can just enjoy wearing a dress. Literally. Do whatever the hell you want to do. So then this transition into England in the early 1700s, just to keep referencing how long this has been around.
Have you ever heard of these like houses called Molly houses? No, but it sounds like a good time. You know what I mean? Sure does. And it is. So I guess Molly was a slur for gay men back in the day. Oh, really? Um, M O L L Y. Yeah. I don't know why.
But these houses were a safe place for gay men to interact, dress up. What year was this? In the 1700s. Wow. So yeah, it was like a, there were places where subcultures of men met, socialized, and took part in various sexual activities. Oh, hey.
Good for them. Yeah, seriously. Love that. We do love that. So needless to say, we have seen this in many different forms. We have seen drag show up in ways that have been a little bit more like underground. And so let's go to Harlem. Harlem's Hamilton Lodge, number 710. Okay. This is where we're really getting started. We're in New York. It is about to happen. In the 70s? So this was in...
Well, this started actually in New York in like literally the early 1900s. So even in the like, I think 1920s. Oh, Harlem's Hamilton Lodge hosted regular drag balls during the post-Civil War era. What? I just can't even picture it.
I know. I mean, they were not what we see in the 80s. Very underground. Very scary in a lot of ways, I think, to be like you're kind of risking a lot to go do it. Absolutely. So attendees varied in race, gender and sex, with some women taking part of wearing men's clothes. But the main attraction were female impersonators who showed off their gowns and bodies to a panel of judges in
in this pageant fashion sort of thing. Oh my gosh. Well, I mean, female clothes are so much more fun than male clothes.
truly though. I just like, it's so sad that like they get a tux and a suit and like you could maybe add a little floor like pattern to it, but nothing else. It is sad except for the fact that my God, it's so much cheaper. No, you just wear the same thing to every wedding forever. And like the same shoes. It's so annoying, but also we have more fun with it. We do have fun. Getting ready is one of the best parts of being, being a woman. I agree. Um,
So as these balls continued for decades, they grew in popularity. By the early 20th century, drag balls were considered illegal and taboo to the outside world. But this kind of drove more people to want to go. Until as old as time. Until as old as time. Like once you take something away. People want it more. You want it more. So in the 1800s, there was a few courageous spectators, they said. And then according to a collection of essays at the New York Public Library, they
by the 1930s, there was thousands of men that would go. Thousands. Which is crazy. Like Great Depression. Prohibition. Prohibition. A lot of dark times. Well, I guess it was like the early 30s Prohibition ended, but... Oh, yeah. And then when did the... There was more 20s, but...
Depressions start like... In the 30s. Yeah. I think like 1932 is when the stock market crashed. I think so. I don't know, guys. Remember when we were like, we should do an episode of the Depression. And then we were like, maybe not. Might not be the best one. Like, and then everyone was depressed. Truly. So this time in the 1930s, it's kind of called this Harlem Renaissance. So there was a lot of black artists, painters, authors, dancers, musicians, and they were experimenting with
their craft. And it was one of the first times that we saw black artists be able to, I mean, not freely, but more like explorative of their sexuality and gender like never before. This is like also when the black community was flourishing, right? Yes. Real Housewives of Atlanta just had a Harlem Renaissance themed party. Oh, that's so cool.
I love that. It's, you know, it's tough when you see another flapper dress on Bravo, but at least they got more creative. We are sick of those flapper dresses. Guys, but Hey, I know it makes me never want to do a twenties party. Bravo is that's like the only thing Bravo is ruined for us. Truly. Um,
So these balls, so they were, you know, technically they were interracial at the Hamilton Lodge. But of course, prejudices, prejudices, prejudices, prejudices, prejudices. You guys understand they were still at play. Of course. So, of course, judges generally favored white judges.
European featured. Were the judges white as well? Or was it? I think it was an integrated. Yes, it was a diverse panel of judges. And then later on we see it kind of being taken over by
people of color. So it wasn't until 1936, 69 years after their first ball with an attendance of 8,000 spectators. Oh my God. 8,000. 8,000 that a black contestant took home the top prize for the first time. So it just did take a while to even...
get recognition as a black contestant. But the balls expanded to other major cities. And so by the early to mid-20th century, racial biases were still at play. But we have some people coming in that are going to change that. Love that. And are they calling them balls at this point? Balls, yes. Do you know why they started calling them ballrooms or ball? I think just maybe...
The extravagance. Extravagance. Lavish. Lavish. Just like bigger than life. Very theatrical. Right. You know, even like in the dances and like expression, everything is like regal and pointed fingers. You know, like it's just so. It is elegance. I want to go to a ball. Me too. Like when did balls stop becoming a thing? I know. Like the 50s? Yeah.
Right? Right? I think so. Yeah. I guess. Get back to us, guys. Yeah. Let us know. Homework. Homework. So this is where we see houses being formed. So how did these houses form? When a white contestant, Miss Philadelphia Rachel Harlow, took the crown in 1967 in a Miss All-America Camp beauty pageant, black contestant Crystal LaBeija
representing Manhattan claimed the judges had discriminated against her and the pageant was rigged. So she was like, you guys are not paying attention. I am so much better. Yeah. She said, quote, she can't help it because she's beautiful. Young. You deserved up best in the world.
But she didn't deserve it. I didn't say that she's not that beautiful, but she wasn't looking beautiful tonight. Oh, and there it is. So that's what she said about Rachel's grounding, which is, you know, it's fair. It is what it is. Hurtful, but fair. You know, maybe to Rachel. Yeah. Well, sorry. I know. So LaBeija refused to participate. Wait, sorry. The theme was Miss America Camp? Miss America Camp beauty pageant. Oh, yeah.
I know. Or the category, I guess, would be Miss America camp. I think so. I want to witness. I know. I'm like, what would you wear? Oh, God. Like the hair, the higher the hair, the closer to God. Like, I think I would go like very Texas. Yes. And like very campy with that. Oh my God. Yes. What about you? I feel like... Oh, what's...
Could Barbie core work in that or no? Cause it's a little bit more like pageanty. I guess you could be Barbie pageant. That's true. You can make it your own. Yeah. Maybe just like, I see, I see hot pink love, um, but you bejeweled. Of course. Everything. Of course. Um,
So Crystal was like, no, no, no, no. She's like, I hate what's going on here. We deserve better. And so she and Harlem drag queen Lottie LaBeija, they were like, you know what? Let's make our own ball. And how we should start this is having these ballroom homes where we can take people in. And so Crystal was the start of that. And she was known as the first mother. Oh, yeah.
Mother. I know. I love that. I know. And so these, and it's like your team. Yes. It's your team. It's, I mean, I think it's one of the most beautiful parts of this story because, you know, for like marginalized communities, a lot of these, you know, queer people were kicked out of their homes, um, didn't have anyone to go to. And so they just form, form their own family. Yeah. Like, you know, chosen family, all supporting each other.
and feeling safe. And yeah. And did they actually live? I know in Pose, they actually lived in the home together a lot. Like they lived in a physical home together. Yes. They would be, you know, like, and I think that varied from having like tons of people, you know, it was like pretty crowded, you know, a lot of like multiple people sharing beds, sharing a room. Um,
But it just, it's very sweet. It's so sweet. So there'd be a mother of the house or house fathers. So it was a mother and a father? Sometimes. Sometimes, okay. It just depended on, you know, the family. All families look different. Exactly. Isn't that the truth? Cue end of Mrs. Doubtfire when we were sobbing. I'm sorry, I did not recover. Oh, God. No one did. Hey, that's drag. I mean, truly, Mrs. Doubtfire, let's talk about it.
They're like, no. That's playing at Sinespia. It was so fun. That was a great movie. I know. I was like, should we? We shall. Can we handle it again?
Um, so Crystal and Lottie went on to host the first house ball in Harlem in the early 1970s in Tidelene. Crystal and Lottie LaBeja presents the first annual house of LaBeja ball. Ah, gorgeous. Um, the ball designed exclusively for black and Latin X trans gay and queer people was a huge success. Great. Um,
So this was kind of the start of like the start of it. And also I think before it was very focused on a little bit more on trans people. And then in 1973, there was this gay man named Eric,
Erickson Christian, who became the first gay man to compete. Oh, wow. So it was all trans people competing before? Yes. Wow. And a lot of, yeah, I think it was not like we don't want just like gay men in here, but it just wasn't as inclusive. And then in like early 70s, they were like, you know what? Come on. Bring them in. Come on. Bring in the gays. Bring in the gays. And we love that. We do. So.
What were these competitions like? Yes, Tess, tell us. So instead of the pageant style of competitions and drag balls, house balls held competitions between houses by categories. Category. Category. Love. Let's talk about some of these fun categories. So of course we have the one, the only, voguing. Voguing. God, voguing.
So voguing is elements of catwalk, floor performance, spins, dips. We'll get into that in a little bit more detail. There's a category for FQ realness. What's FQ stand for? This was, I'm like, what does that stand for? Judged on participants' ability to blend in with cisgender women. Okay.
Oh, okay. So maybe it's feminine. Feminine Q. I don't know. But I know that like, I love that they say like realness in the category. Yes. Love. There was BQ realness, which is judge on participants ability to blend in with male heterosexuals. And then this was, I thought this was funny. This was divided into subcategories of schoolboy. Oh, okay.
Thugs. Okay. Pretty boy. Okay. Executive and trans man. God, it's so fun because it's really just like a fashion show. I mean, it is theater kids. What dreams? It is theater kid energy beyond what we could ever even know. But yeah, just so fun. Like executive is the demeanor of corporate America. So you just get to like,
Also for these, you know, trans queer people just to be making fun of like, not making fun, but just a space where they can be like, they can play any character they want and they're celebrated for it too. Like you have to put on like the chicest suit and give like executive realness and walk down the aisle. So fun. God, the energy just must've been crazy. Oh, so fun. So fun. Um, there's runway of course, which is the, uh,
judged on participants ability to walk like a supermodel. Of course. Um, there's bizarre, which is, you know, creativity to kind of design it over the top look. Ah,
And it just goes on and on. I mean, there's labels. Face is just a category of just like, how pretty are you? How gorgeous. Right. And can you serve face? Exactly. There's in that one, there's subcategories of face with performance, wash face, new face. It's just like so detailed.
Body. What else is there? Body language. I was sad that they took that out of the new Little Mermaid. I understand, but sad. Right. I mean, if you haven't seen the new Little Mermaid Ursula song, they take out body language. It is funny that like what they choose to take out. It's kind of like the Little Mermaid is like a really problematic. So problematic. Did they do anything to make it like more like feminist? Not really. They had like one part where she was like,
I just wanted you to hear me or something. And he was like, I'm sorry that you had to lose your voice in order to be heard or something like that. Okay. But... They're like, so let's keep the storyline, but take out this lyric. The storyline's just tough all around. Yeah, it is tough. But hey. I know. I'm deciding if I want to see it in theaters. Serving mermaid realness. Oh, my God.
And there it is. And there it is. Um, so let's talk a little bit more about voguing. Okay. Um, and no, Madonna did not invent voguing. She sure did not. Um, she tried to pay tribute to it with the Vogue music video. Um,
And I think a lot of people were like, oh, that's great because she's kind of like giving us a little bit more. Putting it on the map. Exactly. And then some people were like, fuck this. Like just like another white woman that now kind of gets all the recognition for it. Right. So no, it is not. It is not Madonna. Vogue is a type of dance inspired by the poses of models in fashion magazines. The dance originated within the world of gay and trans black people and
Some believe that Paris Dupree, a pioneer in the house ballroom scene, created Vogue, while others believe that it was created by a black, gay, or trans person in the New York City jail complex at Rikers Island. Oh. I mean, I guess you have some time on your hands. You have time.
And like a little bit of space to like make things happen. Exactly. We love using that as a creative. Yeah. Use your resources, you know, opportunity. Absolutely. Um, will, uh, Willie Ninja, another legendary member of the house ball community has also been referred to as the godfather of voguing. Oh my God. Like what a title. I know Jesus. I love a Vogue walk where they're like,
squatted down all the way and somehow they can move across the floor and still be voguing. It is crazy. So crazy to be able to move your body. I mean, really even like any sort of dance. I'm just like, same. How I could, I could watch for days. Same. It's just incredible. Gorgeous. Um, so like I was saying before about Vogue, it was called pop dip and spin because it had a relationship to break dancing. Oh, wow. Um,
And when people were double jointed or acrobatic, they started putting that into their vogue. So then it kind of became this like,
Just mesh of like, yeah, the catwalk break dancing, you know, sassiness. The double jointed is when it gets crazy, but you have to be like really flexible to Vogue. You really do. The Vogue fall or whatever. I know you can do the splits. Can't you? I can do the splits. I feel like you could, you could try to vote. I mean, if they would ever have me, I would love to participate. It'd be fun to take like a Vogue class. It would be so fun to take a Vogue class. I would love that. Same. Um,
So the old way of pop, dip, and spin was kind of like the 1970s, 1980s. And then other elements of dance were ushered in in the early 1900s for a new way, Vogue Femme, it's called. So it's like kind of ever evolving, but it just still has that origin that's like so iconic. Right. And just pose, pose, pose. Pose, pose, pose. It's funny because...
Willy Ninja described voguing as a way of throwing shade. Oh, um, or like criticizing other opponents. Like a big part of voguing is like looking at your other, you know, um,
what's it called? Competitor. Uh huh. And like kind of being a little bit like, you know, and like sassing them a little bit. Putting the poses to them. Yeah. So a little bit of like your turn next. Wouldn't they have like Vogue offs? Oh yes. Oh my God. Yeah. So all of it was very like, um, I believe like there was something that went into the dictionary, um,
Also, if you guys haven't seen people Vogue, like you just YouTube right now, Vogue-ing. That's all you have to say. Yes. And or watch the documentary Paris is Burning. Did you watch it? No, I didn't. I'm dying to see it. I'm dying to see it. I've heard it's incredible. This is always what happens to me after I research that I'm like, after I do the episode, I'll like watch this, which.
Probably isn't the way to do it. Hey, we're all in it together. That is true. There is a quote about voguing. And I tried to find who said this. I believe it was one of the members. I'm not sure of what house that was in the documentary Paris is burning in 1990. Yeah.
And he says, voguing is very much about telling one's story through movement. And that for me, because of who is doing it is very much an active resistance to the entire world that not only tells us that our lives are devoid of meaning, but also tells us that we have nothing to contribute. It's a kind of resistance and embodied kind of resistance to these cultural messages.
No, I have a story to tell and my story is going to be so convincing. And in this particular atmosphere, you're going to be able to clearly understand what I'm saying. Oh my God. I do. I do understand. I do too. I have chills. It's just like any sort of...
It's truly art. It is art. And I think it made a lot of people feel seen and creative and... Exactly. And comfortable in your body and expressive in your body. Wow. So that is a beautiful thing. It sure is. Show. We do have this documentary that comes out in the 90s called...
Paris is burning and people... It took viewers directly inside the ballroom scene. Filmmaker Jenny Livingston began filming the events after seeing people voguing in New York City's West Village.
So this film is like a reference with a lot of LGBTQ, you know, people. It's like a special film. There has been a little bit of backlash because she's like a white cis woman that made it. Got it. And then I guess a lot of people threatened to sue after not receiving compensation following the success of the film. That's tough. I don't know what like the normal protocol is for documentaries, though. I don't think that there's usually payment. I know. I'm like, how does that work? I don't.
now. I don't know either. Oh, yes. Throwing Shade was added to Merriam-Webster's dictionary in 2017. Oh, Throwing Shade. Oh, wow. Which is amazing. I feel like
A lot of ballroom culture language has become mainstream. And I probably a lot of that is from RuPaul's Drag Race. Totally. Because that is like major now. Yep. Oh, also, sorry. Edited. I need to go back. The filmmaker was a queer white woman. Okay. But still accused of enabling some cultural appropriation. Got it. Through the film. Yeah.
So the documentary was great because it portrayed these elaborate balls in a way that shined light on also problems that these people were facing. So it was like, look at this gorgeous inside party. And then also, you can't look at ballroom without knowing that it's a really tough time for a lot of these people. Right.
And, you know, the political climate was not great. You know, she kind of takes a look at poverty, illness, racism, homophobia, transphobia. And this is in like the late 70s or this is in the 90s. OK, this is in 1990. I think the 90s in New York were pretty rough now. Very rough. 80s and 90s. Yes. Because, yeah, I mean, there was undercover officers in New York would come in and they would pretend to be gay and like proposition sex.
Whoever was in there. It's so, like, get out. Oh, yeah. So more than 50,000 queer male ballroom attendees were arrested from... Why? For being gay? I don't... I mean, this was between 1923 and 1967. I think being gay was a crime for most of those years. It's just, like... There's actual crime on the street, guys. Literally, go out and, like...
figure it out. Make a difference. Like these people are just enjoying their lives and not hurting literally anyone. It's so crazy. Yeah. I mean, I know like you could be arrested if you were seen like having like physical relations with another man. Right. And, but like all of this is just to keep people of color in prison too at the end of the day. Exactly. And not, they'll use any, any way to do so. And that is the very sad truth. Um,
And so you can't look at this time too without talking about AIDS. Right. And what was really happening. And I just wanted to find out a little bit about like, because I guess I didn't even know. I was like, so like, when was the exact start? What was the, you know, first, I knew that.
the response and stigma was not great no i mean we had a conversation the other day where we were like they they just didn't know so much about the aids epidemic and then we were like we still don't know so much about it yes like we were like wait so like we were asking questions to each other and so i was like i think we should just do a little background of what was going on because the ballroom scene was deeply impacted by hiv and aids
And to encourage HIV screenings, actually, they let people who were tested into the ball for free. Oh, amazing. So like after everything really was getting scary, you know, they were doing the best that they could. But...
It was tough. They lost a lot of people. So I'm like, when the hell did this start? So in mid 1981, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control noticed a set of medical curiosities, an alert from Los Angeles. So it kind of started in L.A. was the first sign that five previously healthy young men had come down with a rare fatal lung infection that
Almost simultaneously, a dermatologist in New York saying that he had seen a cluster of unusually aggressive cases of Kaposi's sarcoma and obscure skin cancer. Really? So they were like, what's going on? These seemingly unconnected occurrences had two things in common. First, all the victims were sexually active gay men. And secondly, they all had immediately compromised immune systems. Got it.
So that's why it like affected your skin and someone else that affected your lungs. It's like not just one specific part of your body. Yes. It's like, you're just getting really sick and you're losing weight and you're like, it was just kind of everything. Your body's just starting to break down. Yes. Um, so about a month after those reports, a San Francisco weekly wrote that it was something called gay men's pneumonia was going around. Oh my God. Which is just like, even thinking of like, can you imagine if we called COVID like,
Well, just specifying it for one group of people that's already like ostracized. Exactly. So, you know, obviously the, um, the response was, you know, attacking the gay community. Um, but then by September, 1982, there was a medical name for it, acquired immunodeficiency syndrome or AIDS, um,
The following May, science identified the retrovirus that was causing it, which is HIV. But everyone was like, we don't know who's at risk. We don't know how far this disease could spread. We don't know kind of what to do to stop it. Fauci, which I'm like, this man has been around for so long. Please never leave us. But didn't he? Oh. Not dead. I know.
Didn't he leave the... I mean, he needs a break. He was like, COVID really... It just like... Yeah. No, he is still with us. Yes, yes, yes. 82 years old. Okay, okay, okay. Yes. Yeah, former chief medical advisor, so... Gorgeous. He has a well-deserved break. I mean, the COVID. God, I mean... He's tired. I get it. I get it, little Fauci. So he was a senior investigator at the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Disease. I was like, he's...
He's been everywhere. Allergies and infectious disease? Like, can we separate departments, people? He's like, no, we can't. He's like, there's no budget for that. We don't care. No kidding, my God. About people's livelihood. So Fauci was like, I've been researching this. He's like, there is this like, you know, at first we thought it was gay men and then we thought it was drug users. And then we, you know, they just didn't really know what was going on. He wanted to get into it. He wanted to...
alert the public to try to like have a conversation and a little bit more knowledge about it. So he wrote this editorial that never even appeared because people were like, we don't want to like talk about this because it's
We don't want to scare people. And also if it's just associated with gay men, like there was this thing of like, they kind of deserve it. I was literally just about to say the fact that it's gay men, gay men and drug users. It's like this sort of thing. Yeah. Where it's like, well, if you do it, then you deserve what happens to you afterwards. Exactly. That's actually not true at all. Which is just so sick because I mean, like we remember from our princess Diana episode, you know, that she was one of the first public figures to shake hands with a little kid who was infected with HIV. Yeah.
And, you know, was trying to bring awareness because there was such fear. You know, there was like, is it can you get it from kissing? Can you get it from hugging? Can you get it from being close to someone? And this all was, you know, rumors because who did not want to give a dime to someone
Figuring out what was going on. President Nixon. Not Nixon. Reagan. That is right, Claire. Yeah. That is right. So the Reagan administration not only ignored it and shamed it, but legit made fun of it. What? So there's this famous exchange between Larry Speaks, who's former White House press secretary and political journalist.
Lester Kinsalveen from 1982. And at this point, thousands of people have already died from AIDS. Oh my God. And,
And Lester is like, I'm going to ask him about it publicly. And I forgot to send this to you. I'm like, let me send it. Should I text it to you? Either one. I have my phone ready to go. OK. We're just going to do a little. Oh, my God. You know that we have to do a line reading whenever we can. I mean, truly, even about the darkest. Yeah. We have to just perform the darkest of things. So this is when it first, you know, one of the first public sort of.
gatherings where this was addressed. And do you want to play? You should play. Who should I play? You should play Larry Speaks, who is the White House press secretary. Okay, great. And your journal is Gloucester. Yes. Okay, great. And let's just let's be disturbed for a second. Okay.
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Does the president have any reaction to the announcement by the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta that AIDS is now an epidemic in over 600 cases? AIDS? I haven't gotten anything on it. Over a third of them have died. It's known as gay plague. Press pool laughter. No, it is. It's a pretty serious thing. One in every three people that get this have died. And I'm wondering if the president is aware of this. I don't have it.
Press pool laughter. Do you? You don't have it? Well, I'm relieved to hear that, Larry. Press pool laughter. Do you? No, I don't. You didn't answer my question. How do you know? Press pool laughter. Does the president, in other words, the White House, look at this as a great joke? No, I don't know anything about it, Lester.
Oh my God. People are dying. And he's literally like him and the press are just laughing about it. When he's just trying to ask a question of like, does the Reagan administration have anything to say? Is there going to be anything like done about this? I would be so frustrated to be that journal. I'd be like, stop.
laughing that's why I can't be in public spaces oh I would start crying I would go bright red same I think I'd like be tempted to throw something same me too like take it seriously oh you don't have anything about it that's your job yes and just like looking at the crowd being like oh this guy right like I can't even it's disgusting
Have you ever heard of the book and the band played on? No. Um, apparently it's a really interesting and well-known book about the history of HIV AIDS. Um, and the Ronald, uh,
Reagan's administration, how terrible that they were. Is that what the theme of the month actually is? Is Ronald Reagan's administration sucked? It's terrible. Terrible. I mean, truly. But like what ended up happening, which is like a beautiful thing and also just a sad thing that, you know, our country leaves it to like individuals and smaller organizations to then have to act, um,
Act Up, which is there is a formation of Act Up, the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power by Larry Kramer. So there were things in the gay, you know, organizations in the gay community that they were like, we need to do something about it because no one's listening to us.
So, you know, that that was nice. You know, what's so frustrating is like the frustration that we felt during COVID, like just to compare it to an experience that we can relate to, to really fully understand it. Yeah. And how we didn't have information and how we felt the government wasn't doing the correct things to help us.
Now put that on a scale where it's literally just your community and they're actively ignoring you and you're seeing people around you die. Literally. And like, I mean, obviously COVID was very serious and, you know, you can't really compare, but like AIDS was a death sentence at this point. There was no, you know, now we have seen evolvements in medicine and things that you can take and preventive things, all of that. At this point, like once you...
Once you got it, it was very, very high percentage that you were not going to make it. So just how lonely that must have felt and just frustrating to have people just think it was a joke. Oh my God. It's just disgusting. I mean, God. Yeah. But what helped too was I think...
As time went on, there were some public figures that came out and said, I have AIDS. I have HIV positive, including or I guess HIV positive, including actor Rock Hudson. Oh, wow. I didn't realize that he did. I didn't either. Basketball star Magic Johnson. Right. Tennis player Arthur Ashe and singer Freddie Mercury. Oh, wow. Wow. That's how Freddie Mercury died, right? I believe so.
So they were all very significant in, you know, getting media attention and I think de-stigmatizing it a little bit. Right. And also being like, yeah, it could happen to fucking anyone. And that's such a brave thing to do, too, because the shame that was around that. Like, my God. Oh, my God. So, so brave. So, yeah, that was, you know, just a little bit about how terrible it all was. Right. Yeah.
And so it's not to say that like ballroom, like HIV and AIDS, like wiped out ballroom. But I think like anything, it was they did lose a lot of people in those communities and houses. And then, you know, going into like 90s, early 2000s, it was a little bit less of the underground culture taboo, like as people.
It became, you know, a little bit more accepting, which Lord knows has taken forever. Yeah. We've seen it move into different ways now that it's no longer, you know, maybe what we imagined it to be like in the 80s. And I found another quote that I really liked of sort of how it has transitioned from like the origins of like what it stands for into like how we see it now.
The same communities that created Vogue are the ones trying to defund the police and abolish ICE. The same activists responsible for overturning New York's walking while trans laws are also demanding the decriminalization of sex work.
the same organizers who want to end solitary confinement to halt the construction of new prisons, reallocate funds towards housing, healthcare, public education, and the other sources that actually protect black trans lives. Vogue is a part of all these struggles for it allows its dancers to dream and enact these seemingly impossible demands to generate freedom in real time. I have chills. I know, which I just love that. Cause it's like, it's still out there. Like no matter what it looks like physically of, um,
Yes.
has managed to fill the generational gaps, bringing the ballroom to television's main stage. Obviously very successful. So I love also that moment of RuPaul with Jimmy Fallon where he's like, you are the most popular drag queen. RuPaul goes, drag queen. And you can see Jimmy Fallon looks like, oh my God, I've just canceled myself. He's like, I am never coming back. I hate that man.
He was so scared. And then RuPaul was like, I am the queen of drag. Exactly, honey. Exactly. It's iconic. It is. Which I've only actually seen a few episodes. Same. But everyone, like I know, obviously our friend Caroline is very into it. Emma is very into it. Like, I know I just need to watch it because everyone who watches it is...
It's a family. It truly is. And like we mentioned at the beginning of the episode, the FX drama by Ryan Murphy Pose was, I believe it's two seasons, three seasons maybe? I think three. Yeah.
Three seasons. It employed more than 140 LGBTQ actors and crew members and features the largest cast of transgender actors in series regular roles ever. Didn't she win or was she just nominated for an Emmy? She was nominated. I'm like, did I think she was nominated like kind of consistently? Well, I feel like she wasn't nominated. And then finally she was towards the end.
Is it? I'm so sorry. Michaela Rodriguez or Michaela? I'm so sorry. I think Michaela maybe? She was nominated for Emmy for Outstanding Lead, but she did not win. Got it. Oh my God. Well, she deserves it. She definitely deserves it. I didn't know this, but.
Ryan Murphy announced that he donated all of his post profits to trans and LGBTQ charities. Oh, that's I mean, he has money to give. So I'm so glad that's the way he did it. Yes, he sure does. I everyone that's even remotely interested in this. Go watch that show. It will make you saw. I feel like India Moore has been working a lot recently and she is. I mean, India Moore is one of the most gorgeous people.
I've ever seen in my life. And phenomenal actor. Oh my God. Oh my God. Do you remember that scene where it's like that Kate Bush song running up the hill and she like has that, um, like fur jacket on and she's looking at Evan Peters. Yeah. Cause first season Evan Peters is like in love with her. It's such a good show. It's so good. And the music's just so good. I know. I don't watch it again. Same. Um,
Um, so, you know, obviously we, we see it now sort of more on mainstream television and movies and, you know, music, like you mentioned with Beyonce's album. Um, and I'm going to end with another quote that, you know, I just, I love the quotes. It's by Dorian Corey, whose house of mother of the house of Corey. And this is from Paris is burning, which I still need to watch me too.
And they say, in real life, you can't get a job as an executive unless you have the educational background and the opportunity. Now, the fact that you are not an executive is merely because of the social standing of life. Black people have a hard time getting anywhere. And those that do are usually straight. In a ballroom, you can be anything you want. You're not really an executive, but you're looking like an executive. You're showing the straight world that I can be an executive if I had the opportunity because I can look like one. And that is fulfillment.
And that is from Mother of the House of Corey. And that is fulfillment. I know. I know. So that's pretty much ballroom. I wonder how many ballrooms are going on still. I think it's not like a sort of single... I don't know, actually. That's a good question. I was trying to find more information of the end of ballroom. I think it was just...
I couldn't really find like a timeline of like, and now it's done. I'm sure there are elements of it and, you know, still like a lot of clubs and communities, but I think definitely the underground scene of it with as many people and, you know, I think that has...
lessened a little bit with time. Hopefully because, well, I mean, I would say hopefully because it's not as necessary anymore, but my God, recently, like with things in Tennessee. I know. It's like, it just always feels like there, there is something to, to overcome and it can be very discouraging, but I think these stories are really nice of also being like,
Ballroom made a lot of these people feel fulfilled and like they had purpose. Yeah, exactly. And to be able to thrive in that space. I know. Well done, Tess. Thank you. I'm glad that we did it. Me too. Yeah, everyone watch Pose. Yes. Everyone. We'll start watching Drag Race for sure. Yes, we need to. We do. Everyone go celebrate pride in whatever way you want. Exactly. Exactly. And yeah. What would your category be today?
What are you giving? Oh, my God. Oh, that is good. I'm going to give in an hour. My category is going to be spray tan realness. I love that. I'm going shade three. Oh, we need to always now do shade three. I agree. Maybe even four. Maybe even four.
So I will be giving spray tan realness is my category today. I love that. Um, when I woke up, I felt a little puffy from the wine. So maybe like puffy princess face category is face princess. Um, I had to do an ice roller today. I also put my head in a bowl of ice water, which is supposed to be really good for your, um, like anxiety. Oh, okay. Well, I could use that. I've been doing that pretty much every morning. Just dunking my face in there. Yeah.
Yeah. I'll take anything I can get. Same. Oh, wow. I love it. So I can't wait to watch Paris is burning too. I know. There's a lot of good, good content out there. There sure is. Um, but yeah, please, um, as always, you know what to do, right? Subscribe, write a review. If you haven't, please. Yeah. Please write a review guys. Yes. We, I don't think you can on Spotify, but you can on Apple. I won't shout you out. Yes, we will. You will get a special mention in next week's episode. If you do. Right.
And yes, we love you guys. We love you so much. Um, happy pride as always. Happy pride. That is go love each other. Always. Goodbye. Goodbye.