Welcoming Heavyweight
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Hello, hello, Revisionist History listeners. We're having a very exciting week here at Pushkin. You know that I'm Canadian, right? We actually fly a big maple leaf flag here at Pushkin HQ. Well, this week, we added another Canadian. The great Jonathan Goldstein, native of Quebec, has brought his acclaimed narrative series, Heavyweight, to the Pushkin Network. Oh, Canada. Oh, Canada.

Our home and native land. True patriot love in all our hearts command.

Jonathan and the Heavyweight team represent everything we believe in here at Pushkin. The power of storytelling, the value of intelligence and emotion, the belief that Canadians can and should dominate all aspects of American culture. Heavyweight examines personal histories and resentments. It tries to heal old wounds and in the process reminds us of our shared humanity. Yes, it's that good.

We're dropping the first ever episode here in the feed about Jonathan's quest to reconcile his father with his estranged brother, Buzz. Enjoy, and there is much, much, much more to come. And if you want to listen to more Heavyweight, which I'm sure you do, check out the show notes for the revisionist history team's favorite episodes.

Yeah, hello. From Gimlet Media, this is Jonathan Goldstein, your old pal. Is that what it's called, Gimlet? Gimlet Media? That's correct. It sounds like giblets. The inside of a chicken, like all the innards? Well, everybody loves giblets. Ew. Oh, shit, they're my kids. Hey, guys, I'm up here! Do you know what my new podcast is about? No, I don't know anything about it. Each week, I travel into people's pasts to help them repair something that's been troubling them.

Mm hmm. I'm sort of like a therapist, like a therapist. So, yeah, you find that you find it funny. I just think supportive. That's the laughter of support. I think it's great. I think it's great. Do you have any questions for me about what my show is and what what it's going to be like?

What's the name of your show? What's the name of your show? Yes, we're going to go now, but Jonathan's just about to tell me the name of his new show. As soon as he tells me, I'm going to bang down on him in five. No, no, wait. Do you remember when we used to do that? Yes, hang up the phone on each other. Okay, ready? Yes, yes. The name of the show is Heavyweight. Heavyweight. You get it? Two, one. No, it's... Hello? Hello?

From Gimlet Media, I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, Buzz. Hello? Hey, Dad. Hi, Johnny. Hey, how you doing? Good, you? Good, good. Good yumtiv. Shana tova. Aksameyach. Aksameyach. What's that mean? I'm not sure. Oh, oh.

This is my father, Buzz. I'm calling him at his home in Montreal. And the reason we're talking crazy talk is because it's Yom Kippur, the Jewish Day of Atonement, which seems as good a day as any to talk with him about forgiveness. So I wanted to ask you something, and I just wanted to gauge your interest. Yeah. How would you feel about paying your brother Sheldon a visit?

You're not? No. My father, Buzz, is 80, and his brother, Sheldon, his only sibling, is 85. And for the past 40 years, they've pretty much been on the outs. My father lives in Montreal, and Sheldon lives in Florida. And the last time they saw each other, over 20 years ago, was at their mother's funeral, when they had a fight over the details of the arrangements. Since then, they've hardly spoken.

It worries me because there's not a lot of time left, and I don't want my father to have regrets. When the subject of his brother comes up, as it often has over the years, my father feels competing things. He grows angry or defensive, but other times he'll become sad and remorseful. And it's the sorrow and the remorse that I like best, because it's these feelings that I believe speak to his better self, the self I want to encourage.

I'm not surprised that you're not jumping at the idea, but I'm a little surprised that you're against the idea. Yeah, time's passed. He hasn't shown much interest. So I'm respecting that and I leave him alone. What he did do was he called you on your 80th birthday not so long ago and you felt good about that. I called him on his 80th birthday. This kind of tit-for-tat accounting is what always gets in the way.

There's been a competition between the brothers since I was a kid. I remember how in my grandmother's small New York kitchen, Sheldon and Buzz got into an argument about who could do the most push-ups. And the next thing I knew, my father was pulling off his shirt and dropping to the kitchen floor in his undershirt. My mother, not used to seeing this side of him, stood over my father, flapping a dish towel hysterically while begging him to the point of tears to please stop.

Now you go, my father said, rising from the floor when he was done. But Sheldon shook his head with a smile. It was like he didn't even think my father was worth the effort. You know what it is at this point with him? I'll tell you what it is. I don't think it's even anger. He's past anger and he's past any feelings of animosity. He's past that. He just doesn't care. Yeah. You know, that's apathy. I mean, sometimes at least hate or love their emotions. Apathy is nothing. Yeah.

Yeah. You know what, Johnny, as a child, even when I was 10, when I was nine and eight, I was crazy about him. We had a great, you know, I loved him. He was the older brother. He was. Hello. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm listening. You know, I just looked up to him and he had all the friends. Sometimes he'd take me along with him and he was good. Somebody tried to somebody tried to call here, being me here.

Don't you see, Buzz? It's Father Time who is binging you here. And Buzz loses track of time. Air conditioners remain boxed all through July, and expired coupons from the mid-90s make plump his wallet. So I worry he'll put off reaching out to Sheldon until it's too late. The most complicated question, the one I keep coming back to, is how did the bad blood begin?

And there are many versions. An ill-fated trip to Montreal where Sheldon felt slighted about having to stay in my father's basement. An ill-fated trip to New York where my father felt slighted about having to stay in Sheldon's attic. Rude words spoken to each other's wives. In one version of the story, Sheldon's refusal to bring a table to my bris almost resulted in my being circumcised on an ironing board.

But in the version being told today, my father was asked by Sheldon to pay more than his fair share for their mother's funeral. And I said, you're always working some kind of an angle. So he got furious. He got furious. He started screaming into the phone, go to hell, drop dead, blah, blah, blah. That was how that ended. But I feel he's the kind of guy that he has angles like that, you know. He has angles.

I always felt I was on the up and up with him, and he wasn't with me. If you got a stronger sense that he was interested in seeing you, then would you... Yes, yes. You would be more inclined to see him. I wouldn't stay at his house, though. That's out of the question. Okay, quick sidebar. Any time I've ever raised the prospect of visiting Sheldon, no matter how hypothetical the scenario, my father always makes a point of insisting how no matter what, he would not stay in Sheldon's house.

even if he was invited to, which I should point out, he never is. I wouldn't stay at his house. How come you...

I wouldn't stay there. I mean, it's not my thing. How come you always bring that up? I mean, normally when someone goes to visit someone that they haven't seen in decades, they'll stay at a hotel, you know? I would stay at a motel or somewhere near his place. A motel. Yeah, no, we'd get a place, you know, with an ice machine and, you know. Why? You're interested in making a trip? I mean, I'm interested. Do you think that there's anything to be gained in seeing him?

I guess there's something. You know, you share your common experience and talk about the old days. And there are things that only he and I can remember, you know? Yeah. You know, you...

Yeah, I mean, I would. I would be happy to do that. My concern is that...

Okay, I didn't suggest that, but you suggested that. Yeah, I like that. Of course, you'll give me an honest reaction. I'm happy to do it, but what are you looking for? What do you want to hear from him? I miss my brother. I would like to see him. Okay. That's all. Okay. You understand? And you come back on me with an honest evaluation.

Hello? Sheldon. Yes, speaking. Hi. I was quite a shock getting your phone call. You said, John, my hearing is not that great. Okay. And when I heard the first message, I'm saying, who the heck is that? I don't know anybody by that name. Sheldon now lives outside of Fort Lauderdale, but my few memories of him are from when he lived in upstate New York.

I remember he lived in a trailer. I remember that he worked at a local prison, that he smoked cigars, that he looked a little like my father, but was hunched, like the world was weighing down on him. And he always wore this expression on his face that seemed to say, you gotta be kidding me. You're keeping okay? You're keeping occupied? Yeah, I read a lot.

I go to the gym, I go shopping, you know, here and there, little things here and there. And so you still go, how often do you go to the gym? Three times a week.

Wow. And what kind of stuff do you do there? Well, I do about 20 minutes of aerobics. Uh-huh. And then I do a little weight training. I try to flirt a little with the women there. Oh, yeah. My father also goes to the gym. That's a part of his routine also. He was happy to hear from you on his 80th birthday.

Tit-meat-tat. Yeah, like, so, you know, maybe we could go out for dinner. I don't know, that kind of thing. Uh-huh. Well, what kind of a time frame are we talking about here?

I guess you have your past in common.

Yes. I'll tell you honestly, I'm not a very sentimental person. And being a pragmatist, I take things the way they are. I try not to dwell upon the past, and I try not to take people the way I remember them, but as they are. Do you think that makes things easier?

Makes things easier for me. Yeah. Do other people around you sometimes, does it make it harder for other people around you? Ever? To be honest with you, I've been, in the last few years, I've been a loner. You would basically almost call me a recluse. I don't socialize with many people.

And I really don't give a damn what anybody thinks. Yeah. And contrary to popular belief, I like being alone by myself. I get along with myself very well. Yeah.

Look, I don't want to be rude or anything, but I want to go have my lunch. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fine. It's fine. Sheldon, I appreciate your talking to me. And you would be amenable to spending some time? Why not? We are brothers. I mean, we're not close or anything, but, you know, we're not going to have a chance to see each other much in the future. Yeah.

Yeah. Is that anything that you think about? Not much, no. And so I call my father back and let him know that Sheldon is amenable. And because I know that for my father, the days tend to pile up like unboxed air conditioners, I have my mother get on the phone to help nail down a firm travel date.

And Daddy wants to go? If Dad wants to go, if he wants to go. Does he want to go? Next weekend. We don't have to go on the weekend. We can go during the week. Yeah. It comes as, you know, you caught me off guard. How about if I'll call you Wednesday or Thursday? How's that? Today's Monday. Or, yeah, or even if you feel like calling tomorrow, you can call me.

Yeah. Okay, I'll probably call you at the latest Thursday. Did you get the Thursday? At the latest. That's three days from today. Yeah. All right, you do what you want to do. You call me, but... I'll call you Thursday. Coming up after the break, Thursday.

And so on Thursday, possibly with a little nudging from my mother, Buzz agrees. And then my father and I are off to Florida to visit my uncle Sheldon. Press where to and then type. Do you have an address? Yeah, I do. Okay. My dad and I meet up at the Fort Lauderdale Airport. I flew from New York and my dad from Montreal. My father's all dressed up, wearing a faux suede sports jacket that I've never seen him in.

We grab our airport rental and prepare for the two-hour drive to Sheldon. In the 90-degree heat, it's immediately made clear that faux suede might not have been the best fashion choice. It's like we're on a safari. On the road to Sheldon's, my father will experience a spectrum of feelings. As we first set out, there's excitement. You know, my brother was funny in a lot of ways. I could laugh. We're going to have laughs with him.

You know what I mean? He's a very funny man. A half an hour in, and there's bitterness. We invited him to your bar mitzvah, and he returned a very cold card. Sorry, we will not be attending. It was so mean, you know what I mean? Even the writing.

An hour in, and how is Buzz feeling? I'm relaxed. I'm kind of old to get anxious, you know what I mean? A half an hour to Sheldon's. A little bit apprehensive now. Yeah. Ten minutes to Sheldon's, and Buzz is feeling... All right. Yeah. Yeah. You feeling a little... Oh, it's going to be strange. Yeah. It's going to be very strange.

I mean, the man is a stranger to me now, and yet he's my brother. You understand? It's a very strange feeling. I wonder if he's getting nervous. Maybe. Because he's waiting for us, right? Yeah. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. He'd also tell you this podcast is his favorite podcast, too.

Ah, really? Thanks, Capital One Bank guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash Bank Capital One N A member FDIC. In my new book, Revenge of the Tipping Point, available wherever books are sold, I once again examine social phenomenon through the lens of epidemiology. I explain how certain trends develop like viral epidemics, but not all epidemics are the same.

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I was joking with my producer Jacob the other day, who's one of Pushkin's most valuable employees. I hired him to be my assistant years ago in the most random manner possible. I think he saw a message board posting somewhere and I interviewed him for basically 10 minutes and said, go for it. I made a wild gamble on someone and got incredibly lucky.

But let's be honest, you can't rely on getting lucky when it comes to hiring people. Lightning's not going to strike more than once. You need a system and you need tools. And that's why LinkedIn is so important. LinkedIn is more than just a job board. They help connect you with professionals you can't find anywhere else. Even people who aren't actively looking for a new job.

You all set? Yeah.

Ooh, it's hot. It's really hot, yeah. Sheldon lives in the corner house on a quiet suburban street. Ring the bell. I guess. Is this his door? I'll double check. Oh, there he is. Hey. Hi. This is Jonathan. Nice to meet you. Come in. Thank you. I smell a good smell of cigar. Yeah. Ah.

Lately, I've become a monk. Me and my pussy cat. Oh, you got a cat. After all the years and the worry and the dread, things seem to be going swimmingly. We sit down at Sheldon's kitchen table, and my father gets right into it. Now there's things I want to know. You said that Rainy died. Yeah, she died. She did die. The dead are a good place to begin. As a subject, they're easily agreed upon and not likely to spark a fight. The uncle died. The uncle died? He was the youngest brother. Oh.

Oh, he died long ago. He died, eh? Oh, you know who died? Who? Hoffman. Hoffman? A real prick. Yeah, I didn't know him that well. A real prick. Yeah, yeah. Knish. Oh, that's shocking. Yeah, he was fat. He was fat. Redhead. Redhead, right. Yeah, Knish. Remember Johnny? Johnny was a sex maniac. Johnny, oh, he would fuck a dog on the street. If he saw the dog, he'd try to fuck the dog. Ha ha ha!

Can I get you guys a cold beer? I'd like a beer. Yeah, sure. I'll have a beer. Even though they're in their 80s, Sheldon and Buzz still possess voices and temperaments suited to shouting out Brooklyn tenement windows, while my voice... Yeah, sure. I'll have a beer. ...is best suited to asking a waitress if there will be a sharing charge. And the flying...

Forgot about that, sorry. Case in point, this is Sheldon accidentally swiping a portable microphone receiver off the kitchen table and me trying to smooth things over. Take this off, will you? It's annoying. No, here, just put it in your pocket there.

Just take it off, would you please? Thank you, thank you. Over the next couple of days, my testes will flee like frightened cockroaches, upward, ascending to heights not seen since the bar mitzvah that Sheldon was not attending.

And while we're on the subject of testes, here's Sheldon reminiscing about the time he was examined for a rupture by their family doctor. Me and Wally Rosen were joining the weightlifting club to see how to be tested for a rupture. I remember he put his hand under my balls. I started laughing so hard I pissed right in his hand. Ha ha ha! Ha ha ha!

Over the years, I've seen my father in the role of husband, uncle, and grandfather. But I've never really seen him in the role of younger brother. How odd to see it now at 80. He sits beside Sheldon with this expression I've never seen on his face. It's wide-eyed, sweet, and deferential.

But as the day wears on, Sheldon and Buzz begin to squabble over their memories, fighting over every little detail. Remember the hallabaloo he had with the hair dyer? That heavyset girl? She was a manicurist. She was a hair dyer. Manicurist. No, she was a hair dyer. Here's what happened. She went over to Irving. They even argue over the death of their grandmother. I found her body.

I did. No, no. My mother was across the street at Greenberg. I remember walking in. I looked in on her. And I knew she was dead as soon as I saw her. I never saw a dead body in my life, but I knew she was dead. Sure. So wait, so you found her or you found her? I remember looking in on the room to see how she was. I said it was awfully quiet. I found her, but let him take the credit. No, I'm not. It's some credit.

The whole afternoon is like this. Every subject, even their dead grandmother, somehow becomes fodder for another pissing match. They're burning up all this time with small talk when what they need is some big talk. In particular, they need to address a story that I know holds a great deal of meaning for my father.

It took place in 1939, on the day their mother left them. I've only ever heard the story from my father, never from Sheldon. I wanted to ask what you remember, what your perspective. All I remember that time was when Pop was smacking her around and she ran out in the hall and her slip. Fighting in the hall? No, he was smacking her around. She ran out. So what happened the next morning? The next morning? Yeah.

Look in the closet, her clothes were gone. She left. What happened after this, in my father's telling, is that his mother returned soon after she left with a policeman in tow. They came back to try to get you. They wanted you to come back with them. And where were you? I was there, but they were trying to drag you out of the house. They weren't trying to grab you? No, no, no. I guess they were my father and grandmother. This is the point of the story for my father.

It proves, once and for all, how his mother loved Sheldon more than she loved him. Sheldon didn't move out with her, and after a year, their mother returned, and together, Buzz and Sheldon grew up under the same roof, in the same bedroom, often sleeping under the same blanket, each knowing who the mother had chosen.

and each having to do their best to carry on and live life with the burden of that knowledge. A couple times during the day, I ask them why they haven't spoken in so long, and they both insist, maybe out of embarrassment, that they do talk, just not often. But it isn't true.

In fact, my father learned of Sheldon's wife's death many years after the fact, and then only from me. Sheldon's daughter got in touch through Facebook, and we made a phone date where she caught me up on her life and Sheldon's. And a few nights later, while over at my parents' for dinner, I told my father of his sister-in-law's death. There was a terrible look that fell across his face, one of sadness, but something else too, maybe shock, over just how far he and Sheldon had drifted.

I found out about Judy, about her death. Who? Your wife. I didn't know about it either until you told me. Yeah. Didn't I tell you? No. You didn't know about it? No? We didn't know. We didn't know. She was sick about two years, Judy. Too bad. Well, when she got the diagnosis, she was already stage four.

What did I know about cancer? So the surgeon, so he said, so I says, well, doctor, how did the surgery go? Oh, he said it went very well. But the cancer is in her liver now. Oh, it's spread. I said, it's in her liver. I said, what? And on top of that, I'm driving home. I'm all fucked up and I'm spaced out.

And my driver window's open and some kids pull up alongside me and flip a lit cigarette into my car. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. He'd also tell you this podcast is his favorite podcast, too. Ah, really? Thanks, Capital One bank guy.

What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash Bank Capital One N A member FDIC.

I was joking with my producer Jacob the other day, who's one of Pushkin's most valuable employees. I hired him to be my assistant years ago in the most random manner possible. I think he saw a message board posting somewhere and I interviewed him for basically 10 minutes and said, go for it. I made a wild gamble on someone and got incredibly lucky.

But let's be honest, you can't rely on getting lucky when it comes to hiring people. Lightning's not going to strike more than once. You need a system and you need tools. And that's why LinkedIn is so important. LinkedIn is more than just a job board. They help connect you with professionals you can't find anywhere else. Even people who aren't actively looking for a new job.

In a given month, over 70% of LinkedIn users don't visit other leading job sites. So if you're not looking on LinkedIn, you're looking in the wrong place. Hire professionals like a professional and post your job for free at linkedin.com slash gladwell. That's linkedin.com slash gladwell to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. I've been on the road a lot, touring across the country, promoting my new book, Revenge of the Tipping Point.

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You know, where I usually eat, I come in by myself by the bar. They got a waitress there who always waits on me. She takes good care of me. For dinner, Sheldon takes us to a local Outback Steakhouse. As people walk by, he provides a running commentary. Of an elderly couple... Don't get like that couple, whatever you do. It's time for the execution. Of an overweight couple... Lord, are they fratty.

People are fat today. It's as though he's sharpening his wit, readying it for the main event, teasing my dad about Canada. I don't know how you could take Canada when you're around. Why? Because we've got nice neighbors. It's nice. It's okay. It's okay.

For my father, I know this is a touchy subject. Believing, as he always has, that Sheldon looks down on him for the dinkiness of his Canadian life and home. It's like a constant reminder of just who is second best.

Later, my father will repeat Sheldon's words. You're still living in that same place, he'll say, for how many years? But just then, I watch my father clench and unclench his jaw, as he does when he is brooding. I know he's trying to take the high road, trying not to ruin the evening. What? $200.30? Are they kidding?

Sheldon invites us back to his place for cookies, but my father says he isn't up for it. As we walk through the restaurant parking lot to the car, my father is silent. I find myself feeling protective of him.

After midnight, lying awake in our hotel, my father insisted we stay at one. I lay in bed thinking about that day in 1939, when my grandmother came back for Sheldon, not my father. For my father, not only did it push him away from Sheldon, making him feel jealous and resentful, but it also cast a shadow over the rest of his life, causing him to always feel passed over.

He's mellowed with age, but as a kid, I saw it come out in all kinds of ways. Always sensitive to slights, ready for a fight at the smallest perceived offense. I wonder if there's a different way for my father to see things. If there is, the only living person in this world who can help is Sheldon. When their mom left, Sheldon was nine, my father five. Sheldon would have understood a lot more than my father.

Yesterday, Buzz and Sheldon talked like a couple of kids who used to play stickball in the old neighborhood. Today, if me and my big fat meddling yap have any sway, they'll have a chance to talk as men. As brothers, even. Because if not now, when? Day two.

This is a damn good cigar. He sent me. Oh, Dominican Republic. They make a damn good cigar in Dominican Republic. Despite the difficulties of last night, the coin is flipped back to the good side. Sheldon offers my father a cigar. And with the cigar, some cigar talk.

Some pretty foul cigar talk. We're riding on Queens Boulevard. Johnny's in the backseat with the whore. He's got his naked ass up in the air. And he's humping. The funny thing is we had to stop for a light. And there's a truck driver sitting in the cab up high. I looked at the car. It was funny. Have you guys missed each other? What? Do you miss each other?

You know, he asked the weirdest question. What is it? What is he, abroad? No, I mean, I don't know. That's, you know. Eager to prove to my Uncle Sheldon that in spite of the fact I'm wearing my wife's travel deodorant, I am indeed not abroad, I allow them to return to more pressing matters.

Their prostates. The guy says, geez, he says, your prostate feels like the moon crate is in there, he said. I said, thank you, doctor. He was complimenting me. Geez.

So if I could steer this away from the prostates. So my father said that it's significant to him to have come. What do you say? I agree with whatever he said. But what about you? I said I agree with whatever he said. Do you want a written contract? No, no, I'm happy. It feels like I'm getting a taste of what growing up with Sheldon might have been like. So again, I make my move. So I have some questions just about...

Because the stories that I know from my father, but I'm curious what your take is because you were older. Do you remember what was going on when your mom, when your mother left originally? Like what, why and what was going on? Didn't you cover this ground before yesterday? But from my father's perspective, the way I understood it was always you were the favorite. Did you feel that way?

At this point, Sheldon's face suddenly softens. I always felt that I got the short end of the stick. Yeah, but you were kind of a favorite with my mom. Yeah, maybe with mom, because maybe temperamentally we were closer than I was with my father. My father never gave me spit. Did you ever get any money from my father?

Can't remember. You never got a dime? No, no, no. Can't remember. You never? One time I sprained my ankle so bad. Oh, never forget that. That was terrible. I laid in that bed my ankle. He was... He says to me, you lazy bum. Yeah. And he went off on me that time. He took Sheldon once. Sheldon happened to say the word fuck. He came in with that fucking strap swinging.

With debacle. And, you know, I can understand it leaving a feeling of resentment and dislike. That was his way of communicating with us. Smack, smack, and then... What a way. Yeah. Was he easier on you, do you think? He wasn't that easy, but he was tough on Sheldon, wasn't he? I know you were closer to him than I was.

- A lot of things that went on, you didn't understand really what was going on. - No, I didn't. See, you had a different take. - Why, are you surprised by-- - But I was a kid, I didn't understand it. - But you didn't know that Sheldon was getting it so bad?

In Buzz's telling, their father was always a more or less benign, childish figure, incapable of expressing his feelings, and so given to temper tantrums. For Buzz, it was their mother who was the manipulator, the woman who played the brothers off each other. But hearing Sheldon's take, it sounds like maybe their mother didn't come to take Sheldon because she loved him best, but simply because he needed more protecting from their father.

For the first time during our trip, I can see my father considering Sheldon's point of view, actually taking it in. I know it's intense for him because he can't even meet Sheldon's eyes. Instead, he looks at me, addresses his comments to me. You know, it's sad that my father had such a negative impact on him, you know? Just awful. Because he had so much going for him. He was a wonderful son.

He worked hard. He was a good boy. He went to school. You're talking like I'm a failure in life. No, you weren't a failure. That's the thing that I'm saying. You weren't a failure. But all I'm saying is that emotionally, he left an impact on you. It took a long time for me to get out of that emotion. And now I'm at peace with myself. I can talk about him and laugh about it. Now I want peace again.

Quiet. I'm happy living by myself. Are you lonely, Sheldon? The last time my father saw my grandfather in full health, my dad was visiting from Canada. My grandfather asked my father to drive him to the cemetery to visit his parents' grave. And once there, my grandfather wept inconsolably. Later that day, he would succumb to a stroke and shortly after be moved to a nursing home.

With Sheldon being more local, the burden of my grandfather's care fell mainly to Sheldon. It seems like a lot of the family's burdens fell to Sheldon. They put a lot of the responsibility on him that my dad should have been taking that responsibility. And he shouldered that. Who's going to take care of you? Who's going to take you to school? Meet you. I remember one time I was late or something. You stood outside that school. You were crying. Yeah.

I said, Buzzy, I'm here, I'm here. He was good to me. A lot of times I was mean to you. Yeah, mean, you know. You were my older brother. You used to knock the shit out of me sometimes. But, you know, that's the way it is with brothers. Well, I was good in some ways. Some ways I was mean. Who was not? Who was not? Who was not?

So if you feel like you were compelled to see each other now because you knew that, you know, it's now or never kind of thing, then it means that it was important to you both, right? To see each other. You want to take that? Sure. Easy answer. Yes. Yes. Because we're not getting any younger. What's down the road? I'm 80. He's 85. I mean, because there was a lot of water under the bridge and we want to close that bridge now.

I want to feel easy now. I want to say now he's going to be 86. I want to call him on his birthday and say happy birthday to him now. I'm not going to stand in any fucking ceremonies anymore. As my father speaks, as per his brother's example, dropping F-bombs like he's in a Guy Ritchie film, Sheldon keeps his arms crossed and his eyes shut tight.

He's quiet for several seconds, and then he reaches out to pet his cat. Should I leave you the cat in my will if anything happens? If anything happens, I'll take care of the cat. I'll take care of the cat. I'm happy I came to see you. That I am. I'm happy you came here. That's good. Very good. If you want to buy a house...

When it's time to leave, Sheldon walks us outside. But before we get into the rental, he points across the lawn to his neighbor's house. He tells my father that it's for sale, and then he tells him the asking price. And my father says, that doesn't sound bad at all. And Sheldon says that, what with Canada being so bloody cold, my father should consider moving to Florida. And my father says, maybe he will. They don't get too emotional. They don't even hug goodbye.

They just shake hands. And with that, it feels like Buzz has forgiven Sheldon, and Sheldon has forgiven Buzz. All right, you take care. Water under the bridge. Take care, you too. Safe trip, both of you. Thank you. Thank you. We'll speak. We'll speak. Turn right on Northwest, mid for drive. Oh my God, I feel so different now. You know that, too.

This is taking a lot off my shoulders. You know? As we ride to the airport, my father says that the thought of Sheldon all alone in that house with just a cat makes him sad. Do you really think he isn't lonely? My father asks. I assure him that Sheldon seems okay with being alone, but my father doesn't seem so sure. After all these years, the burden of having lost his brother has been replaced by a new burden, one that might be heavier to bear. Now that the

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Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me, Jonathan Goldstein. This episode was also produced by Wendy Dorr, Chris Neary, and Kalila Holt. Editing by Alex Bloomberg and Peter Clowney. Special thanks to Caitlin Kenney, Starley Kine, and Rachel Ward. The show is mixed by Haley Shaw. Music in this episode by Christine Fellows, with additional music and ad music by Haley Shaw.

Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans, courtesy of Epitaph Records. A version of the story appeared on This American Life, and we had a lot of help from the folks there. Ira Glass, Julie Snyder, Jonathan Menjivar, Sean Cole, and Robin Semien. A very special thanks to Emily Condon. Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight. We'll have a new episode next week. We used to call him Mitchie Little Bitchie. Remember the older brother? The oldest one. He was comical. Hey, we're lucky we turned out as good as we did.