05: Jeffrey Epstein | Red Thread
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The year is 2019. You wake up surrounded by detail-less concrete walls in a cold sweat. There are no decorations, no windows, nothing bar one single door and a weird object on the other side of the room.

Your feet find the ground and you lift yourself from the distinctly uncomfortable bed you were seconds ago fast asleep in, surely it being a far cry from the feather beds of your past, and you shuffle over to the other side of the room with the limp of a man without any hope or future. Your weak, feeble knees knock against the object finally and your eyes adjust to see it.

This is such an incredible creative decision to put the listener in the perspective of Jeffrey Epstein. Wait, hold on, hold on. Wait.

Wait, wait, wait. You wake up as Jeffrey Epstein? Is that what you're saying? It's like Buddy Swamp. It's like one of those Nickelodeon movies. Freaky Friday. Yeah, it's Freaky Friday. You know, I gotta say, I gotta say, when we decided to cover this episode, I had the thought, I'm so scared of what Jackson's gonna do for the story. This is like, this isn't as bad as it could have been, so I'll allow it. The stories, yeah, exactly. Like, the stories are like the last thing I do. I research the case and then, like...

you know, an hour or so before the recording, I sit down and write, like, just shit out the story, basically. I sat down, I'm like, fuck, what am I going to write? What do I even do here? It's not very fun writing an introduction or a story about Jeffrey Epstein and his whole situation. So you went with a Freaky Friday. Yeah, I pulled out my book of tropes and cliches and I was like, Freaky Friday, that's it.

I like that. You wake up, you're Jeffrey Epstein, you're a pedophile. Now what? I did like my creative decision of making him look down into the toilet filled with like piss and shit and seeing he's a reflection though. That's how he figures out that he's Epstein.

Uh, but yeah, that's, there's nothing else I could, there's nothing I could do really with this. Wait, is that it? Does it end? You just realized you're Epstein? You're Epstein now. He doesn't die or anything. He just, he's like, oh no.

Well, there's also the issue of putting something about unaliving within the first, like, minute of the end. Oh, okay, okay, fair, fair. But, like, we know where it ends. He's a man, his feeble knees were knocking against an object. You hear all of the security cameras turn off at once. Anyway, yeah, I didn't want to write fanfiction about this story, I'm going to be completely honest.

That doesn't matter. This is the Red Thread. My name is Jackson. And this is the show where myself and my good friends Isaiah and Charlie investigate all manners of cults, cold cases, cryptids and conspiracies. And before you say anything else, I know you're wondering out there. Yes, there are many conspiracies surrounding the Epstein case, conspiracies surrounding those who may have benefited from Epstein's demise and conspiracies about how he even rose to the position that he found himself in.

There is plenty to explore and talk about, and we plan on exploring them all, or as many as we can anyway, in this episode of The Red Thread.

I did want to, before we start guys, so I did want to make a quick note before we actually begin. I wanted to shout out that we are on audio platforms like Amazon and Spotify, which is perfect for your daily commute. So if you're listening on those platforms, we also have video over on YouTube. So we're on YouTube and audio platforms. You can find all the links below. That would really help us out if you subscribe on all of those and rate us as well. It would really mean a lot. And another quick note, we've kind of referenced it in the past few episodes, but a lot of writing and research does go into this show.

I do spend a fair bit of time going over the information and compiling it all. And that is available below in the description of these episodes. So you're able to go fact check us, see the sources. I have a source list and all that kind of stuff. So you're able to see the information that we're kind of talking about. It's kind of necessary because there's so much information with a lot of these cases that it's impossible, at least for me, to keep it all in my head. So these documents are, I think, really necessary. So you can go down and check them out as well.

If you wanted to follow the research and all of that stuff. But that's enough notes and talking about stuff that's not related to Epstein. Let's start, guys. How are you guys doing? You ready for this?

Doing great, Jackson. Thanks for having me. It wouldn't be the same without you. You are the Red Thread, Charlie. Thank you for having me. Thank you, too, for having me. There you go. No problem. You're welcome. I just have to say again, as I do every episode, Jackson, the way he does his research makes me want to give him a little forehead kiss. He's so remarkable at it. I love it. He makes me jealous of how well organized he is that I just...

As always, good job. I appreciate that. I appreciate the forehead kisses. I'd happily be paid in that. That's perfectly fine. It's A-OK with me. No, it's really, it's kind of cathartic in a way, and it really helps me. So I don't think there would be any other way of doing this, honestly. So no worries.

Where's your information level on Epstein, guys? How familiar are you with his whole history? What led up to his arrest and all that kind of stuff? How he found himself in the position that he found himself in? Where's your knowledge at?

I know everything about his crimes, not so much about him as a person. Like I, I don't know anything about what he did aside from like some financial stuff for people. I don't know how he got to that point. Like to me, he was never even like a child. He was just made in a lab to be the ultimate evil pedophile. Like I genuinely know nothing about this guy besides just being like one of the most evil men in modern, in modern memory.

Yeah, so you don't know anything about how he actually got to the level of power that he got to. Okay, interesting. Not really. Isaiah, how about you? I would say I think I know at least all the general things there is to know about him, about what his job was, how he got there, of course, the crimes themselves. The thing I'm most interested in looking at today is after... I remember when he died.

like being so super engrossed in the details of it that it kind of like honestly got kind of depressing the thought of like this many people who are entrusted to you know keep us safe or celebrities or what have you uh are either involved or at least knew about what was going on it kind of kind of like not to use a 4chan word but it kind of blackpilled me a little bit and like yeah everything everything hurts and i'm dying type deal um so

So I had to like separate myself from it for a while. So I haven't looked at the details since really like the couple months after his death. So I'm interested to see what developments have been made. But yeah, I'm pretty familiar with everything leading up to and then some of the conversation around when he died. But I'm interested to see like where the theories have gone at this point. Right.

So I think how we're going to structure this episode for everyone listening at home is I want to provide a pretty detailed timeline of Epstein. I think it's important to kind of look at where he came from, the path that he took to get the power that he finally received, and then what he did with that power. So we are going to do a pretty comprehensive timeline. And then towards the end, we'll start talking about theories as well as

as the conspiracy surrounding his death and stuff like that. So I think that's where we'll start is obviously at the very beginning of Epstein's life. And it was by all accounts a pretty...

like standard beginning to a life. He was born in Brooklyn, New York. He grew up in Coney Island, modest middle-class neighborhood at the time. Born to a fairly modest family as well. Demonstrating early intelligence, Epstein skipped third and eighth grade though, due to his academic prowess. So it's fair to say that he was probably a pretty talented and intelligent

smart kid, I believe. Do you guys know of anyone in your life that have skipped multiple grades like that? I knew one person who did. How easy is that to do? I don't know if easy is necessarily the right word, but

I think he did just because he could. It's not something that was a huge deal at the time. I don't know how common it is, but I knew one guy. You kind of have to look for it in middle school or elementary school. I know a bunch of people who did that in college, right? They made a four-year degree. They did it in three or whatever. Yeah, yeah. But like...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the way it works in elementary schools is like you can request to see if the child can test ahead of their grade. And if they do, then they can kind of skip line, so to speak, because all they're looking for at that age is just like if they can pass the baseline stuff. So right.

Okay, that makes sense. Because I don't think I've ever seen it over here. Maybe it's an American thing, but I don't think I've ever seen it over in Australia. I've definitely seen people held back. It's rare. I've seen people held back multiple years, but never pushed forward. But it's always something that I see in American media and stuff, like TV shows. Like, oh my god, this kid's so gifted. He's in university at the age of 14. I think that was young Sheldon, if I recall correctly. Now, there are some great stories like that. I remember there was that one kid.

I think he was from Japan, who was in Harvard at the age of 13 or 14 or something like that. Those are always the prodigy academia students. Right. So it is possible, it does happen, but I think this does at least speak to a level of intelligence not extremely common to people around his age.

So that was in 1953, by the way. That's when he was born. He went through the schooling process. And then between 1969 to 1974, he graduated high school at the age of 16. He attended Cooper Union College in the East Village of New York City, where he studied advanced mathematics and earned money by tutoring other students.

And he eventually dropped out, though, of Cooper Union and enrolled at New York University, but also did not graduate there. Because in 1974, now 21, he was hired as a mathematics teacher at the Dalton School, which was like a prestigious prep school in New York City that catered to the children of the wealthy. So he immediately left Dalton.

school university and became a teacher at a like a prep school basically and now he was rubbing shoulders with with the wealthy and the elite of new york city which is obviously where we start getting into connections immediately so he um he was hired by the headmaster at the time which is interesting it was donald barr which is the father of bill barr the attorney general who served under trump and i think he was also like the head of um

What was he the head of? He was like the head of the FBI or something at some point?

He, uh, I remember seeing his name come up. Yeah, he was Attorney General. He was something before that, though. I know, his name's come up in the past. I think he was, like, at least loosely connected to the Ruby Ridge incident, which was a... Oh, yeah, that's where I know that guy. Yeah, yeah, it rang a bell. What's the Ruby Ridge incident? I don't know that one. Oh, no. Oh, Charlie? You poor summer child. Give him a synopsis. Okay.

Okay, I'll give like a 30 second version. Okay, you know what Waco was, right, Charlie? Like the Waco cult compound, the Branch Davidians? Yeah. Okay, so a couple years before that happened, the same FBI team responded to a guy named Randall Weaver who lived up in northern Idaho. He was reported for sawing the barrels off of two shotguns and then selling them to an undercover agent. Anyway...

a whole thing happens where he's supposed to show up for a court date but he doesn't because the date got changed no one informed him it eventually culminates with a standoff where the fbi surrounds his property for two weeks uh eventually they just start shooting over the course of everything the fbi killed randy's son and his wife um and then randy was arrested for

the original charge it became this whole political storm where uh eventually the family sued the government and they won for damages uh that fbi team like i said two years later would then go on to waco and have another mess up uh basically it's it's an example people to this day use of government overreach government doing bad things uh the oklahoma city bomber said that the reason he did what he did was because of ruby ridge and waco um yeah

So, yeah, just basically a whole history of government corruption tied in. Yeah, they stormed in and killed his family, basically. It was just like Isaiah says there, it's just an example of government corruption, really, and not following the proper rules.

And yeah, it was a whole messy situation. That was Bill Barr. But in 1974, Epstein was kind of connected to, at least through his job as the mathematics teacher at Dalton School, he was connected to Donald Barr, which was Bill Barr's father.

And Donald Barr was another person with a long-storted history, let's say. He served in the OSS, which was the Office of Strategic Services, which was an early version of the CIA during World War II. And he was recognized for his unorthodox approach to hiring. Known for his distinctive style, he left the school abruptly in 1974, citing, "...I am not comfortable with the definition of board-head relations that I see becoming current in school systems everywhere."

And by this time, Epstein had already secured his position as a teacher under Barr's tenure. So I think I included that just to show that Donald Barr was kind of like an eclectic old school dude. He had his own ways of doing things and he didn't follow the proper rules of hiring and stuff. He just brought Jeffrey Epstein in because...

I don't know, he was impressed by his credentials or his history or whatever. He just liked him, you know? Yeah, probably. Like, Epstein was a good with numbers guy, but he also didn't have a degree, but Barr probably didn't care. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Another, I found some interesting information about Donald Barr as well, which was kind of funny.

After hiring Epstein and leaving Dalton, Donald Barr went on to write the sci-fi novel Space Relations, a slightly gothic interplanetary tale in 1973. What an interesting career change. He went from the OSS to like a headmaster at a fucking school to writing like smut, basically. It's been described as highly unsettling due to its depiction of...

non-consensual sex of enslaved people, particularly teenage girls and other coercive sex acts. Oh, oh, yeah. Oh, interesting. Oh, no. Oh, no. It's all connected. It goes all the way back. Oh, no.

Maybe not the finest, gentlemen. I was about to say, thank God you said that before. Because when you said gothic, I was going to make a joke about, ha ha, goth women, me and him can get along. But then you mentioned Latina. That was a close one. No, it's not a good thing. Yeah, this sounds like a very bad guy. Also very interesting that he takes Jeffrey Epstein in under his wing and then goes on to write some very...

Less than stellar stuff regarding the non-consensual nature of young women. This could be like a Star Wars situation, like an apprentice and a master. You know, there are always two. Yeah, rule of two is always two. Maybe Epstein's coming into this world...

Not to try to remove any blame from him, of course, but maybe he's coming to this world, he starts interacting with the high elite of New York, and maybe it was people like him who eventually showed him like, oh, well, there's an interest in this kind of market around here. Maybe I should look more into that. So that might have been one of his early introductions into it.

Or maybe it was more simple and he was like, he was surrounded by all these rich upper class people who had their own set of perversions and stuff. And then he was groomed into that life through just like being around. Maybe it wasn't a strategic decision. Sure. Like their behavior just rubbed off on him basically. Yeah. It's entirely possible. But really, so he went straight into this kind of world of the upper class, let's say.

And two years later, he was let go from his teaching position. The decision was influenced by the fact that he lied about his credentials on his resume, falsely claiming to have a degree from Stanford University. Epstein admitted to fabricating this information to secure the teaching position. But before being let go during a parent-teacher conference in 1976, Epstein impressed a student's father with these mathematical abilities. So I don't know, I guess he did like...

or whatever, like in front of him real quick. How does that happen? It goes to a parent-teacher conference. It's like, all right, now check me out. Watch this math I can do. Like a fucking magic trick. They're like, oh, whoa, no way. Whoa, I've never seen math like that. You did it without a calculator?

It's like one of those cheesy movie scenes where he's marking on the chalkboard real quick and everyone's like, wow, whoa. What the fuck? They're flipping tables and shit. Holy shit. This is insane. No way.

fucking pulls out those giant rotary phones or whatever those giant cell phones at the time mark you gotta come see this shit this is an outrage he's doing simple multiplication in his head get down to dalton asap you're not gonna believe this look what i found

Yeah. Anyway, so the father recommended Epstein to Alan Greenberg, an executive at Bear Steins. I don't know how to pronounce it. It's one of those things I've read a million times. It's a giant financial. I think they went under during the 2008 financial collapse, right? Or were they bailed out? I can't remember. I know they were involved in it. They were a big player. I can't remember if they still exist or not. Yeah, regardless, they were one of those big Wall Street kind of financial institutions at the time.

And yeah, he was Alan Greenberg, the guy that Epstein was recommended to, was the firm's eventual CEO. He was known for his interest in hiring individuals he described as being PSDs.

which stands for poor, smart and desperate to be rich. So someone desperate to get out of the middle class or the lower classes and join the upper echelon. So Greenberg had a good eye for that, I guess. And Epstein was described as fitting perfectly into that position. So Epstein desperately wanted to be rich. And I think that's pretty obvious.

Recognizing Epstein's potential as both a trader and someone who could attract clients and investors, perhaps with his mathematical skills, Greenberg took Epstein under his wing. After joining Baer, Steins, whatever, Epstein quickly became adept at cultivating affluent clients. And despite falsifying his credentials on his resume, Epstein was given a second chance and within four years made limited partner at the firm. So this was his real...

He had been rubbing shoulders with the elite up until this point through his teaching position, but this was the break for him, really. He was now an account man over at a massive financial institution that dealt with rich people's finances constantly, obviously, in advisory roles and stuff like that. So he was working very closely and intimately with...

very rich people now and this is when he was starting to make connections as well. This is what I vaguely know about Epstein is this position and where this led him. The financier yeah. In July of 1980 it says Epstein still working as a trader was

was featured as Bachelor of the Month in Cosmopolitan Magazine. At 27 years old and without a college degree, he described himself as a financial strategist who only took on clients with earnings exceeding $1 billion a year. And an excerpt from the article-

An excerpt from the article reads, if you're a cute Texas girl, write this New York dynamo. Which, man, you want to talk about aging like milk. Dynamo is such a hard word to use. Also, it's worth mentioning that that's exceeding a billion dollars a year in the 80s. That's fucking wild.

Yeah, that is wild. So he rose through the ranks very quickly. I think that shows his people skills as well. He must have been a very charismatic individual, obviously, to garner the positive reception with the people at Burst Dines. So to be in that position, to be dealing with people with a billion dollars a year, managing their finances, stuff like that. Absolutely insane. Like a meteoric rise, right? Absolutely. Has to be.

The picture in Cosmopolitan magazine as well, I'm going to throw this up on screen. We see a young Jeffrey Epstein there in 1980. And like you said, that quote, that excerpt did not age well at all. It's New York dynamo.

I also want to know why, like, how famous he was at the time to be able to be put in Cosmopolitan magazine. I guess he was like the bad boy of Wall Street, maybe. From what I understand, around the 80s, it was much more common to kind of, like...

uh what's the word chase after like the the super rich stark stockbroker mindset like they were a lot more celebrity culture now it's kind of flipped to where they're seen as more like you know slimy greedy businessmen but at the time it was like the thing to be so i know that was a lot more common yeah yeah they were the cool guys yeah that's interesting yeah i didn't consider that

So in 1981, Epstein was asked to leave Burstines amid allegations of insider trading, a regular D violation for lending $20,000 to his friend Warren Eisenstein for stock purchase, which was actually for a condominium, according to Warren's widow. So that's kind of crazy that he got done in for $20,000. That's what got him...

uh like fired from from that company like good obviously he's he was probably breaking a lot more rules than just that but twenty thousand dollars to a friend instead of dealing with like billions of dollars that's crazy those investigators were crazy like you know how much they had to pour through to find twenty thousand dollars misplaced well it was 20k in the 80s that that's so much more back then that's probably something that probably would raise a few alarms that that's true it's

insider trading is always a huge deal for firms like that i have to imagine so then also finding the 20k like i bet that was probably pretty substantial to them i think it was a big deal for the sec or whatever the commission was i don't think it was a big deal for bernstein's who probably does a lot of insider trading and all of these kind of financial well yeah companies do yeah

What were you going to say, though? I'm saying that. No, you're good. I'm saying that's true. What Charlie's saying and what further lends credence to that is that twenty thousand dollars bought an entire condominium or at least part of it, supposedly. Right. But also keep in mind, this is a guy who only takes clients who do over a billion dollars in revenue. Right. So if this guy's, you know, managing ten billion dollars, 20 still got to be pretty hard to find.

Yeah. True. Yeah, absolutely. You'd have to really go out of your way to find it and do a great job. So you know what? Hats off to the SEC. Yeah. Good job. Good job, boys. It is also kind of funny to me that he got done in for being a good friend. Yeah.

Like this may have been the one good act, like friendly act of Epstein's and then fucking blew up his life a little bit. Oh, well, come on. We don't know how many children were in that condo. True. Yeah, it could have been at the start of his. Yeah, it could have just been a front, a front for like more nefarious things. Who knows with Epstein.

Um, yeah. And how the SEC find found out anyway, from what I could figure was, um, Warren's widow was basically reported it inadvertently, I guess, through like her, I guess, um,

What do you call it when you settle your estate and stuff like that? Probably after his liquidation kind of thing. Yeah, stuff like that. So additional issues arose with Epstein's expense accounts and his involvement in an SEC investigation for insider trading linked to work for Edgar Bronfman Sr. And then Epstein left Burstein's carrying a box with personal items, including an award from Cosmopolitan magazine and a photo of Morgan Fairchild.

So he's leaving Bear Stiers with these little cardboard boxes just to get a trophy from Cosmopolitan Magazine in it. The most esteemed award in Wall Street. Do you think Cosmopolitan Magazine's trying to, like, quietly shuffle this all under the rug like that? We didn't give Epstein any award. Never. I wonder if they've tried to. I guess not, because it's kind of hard to, but maybe. Maybe.

Yeah, it's also very easy for them to just be like, we had no fucking clue because nobody did.

We didn't know all the details about this New York Dynamo before giving you the award. Just on a brief search, a bunch of other articles has made articles about Cosmopolitan making Jeffrey Epstein Bachelor, The Daily Beast, Got 'Em Covered, Business Insider. Everyone is jumping on Cosmopolitan. That's pretty funny.

So, Bernstein's boss, James Caine, also stated that Epstein left voluntarily, but other reports suggest he was forced out. So we don't know if he was forced out or he left

With honor, if you will, or what. But regardless, he left. And that year, he founded his own financial consulting firm, Intercontinental Assets Group, or IAG, which is just the fucking dumbest name ever. Where's the passion with these names? They come up with such lame names. Sounds like such a boring corporation. He operated out of his small Upper East Side apartment, and he focused on advising hyper-rich clients on financial matters, despite initially lacking clients.

He shifted his company's focus to recovering money from fraudulent brokers and lawyers, attracting high profile clients like Andrew Lavender, who is a famous lawyer, and Robert Gold, famous researcher. So I believe he kind of still had these connections going on from leaving his previous position at Bear Stearns.

and you know utilize those connections to get whatever he could in his own company which makes sense in 1984 his business was struggling and he faced a lawsuit from client michael stroll over lost money 450k in an oil deal epstein won the lawsuit and there's a quote from barry levine or a quote from the spider by barry levine as in many legal as

As in many legal entanglements to come, Epstein, who won the lawsuit, proved that if you were steadfast, clever, and arrogant, you could stay above the law. It was around this time, on a vacation at Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, Epstein met a 13-year-old girl identified only as Jane Doe for in court papers filed in 2019. The girl was the daughter of a woman whom Epstein had rented a beach house from.

Jane Doe 4 routinely worked as a babysitter for vacationing couples and thought nothing of it when Epstein hired her. But Epstein had no children, of course, and when the girl arrived at the house, he offered Jane Doe 4 alcohol and drugs and Epstein raped her that night. So this is the first documented case of Epstein's behavior around children. This was the very first, let's say, crime, well, non-financial crime that I could find that is alleged that he committed, which is...

I mean, obviously fully believable. Given his later track record, pretty substantial, yeah. So the abuse carried on for years. Epstein flew the girl across state lines to New York on three or four occasions, according to court filings, to offer the young woman as fresh meat to a circle of male friends. The

The lawsuit contains disturbing depictions of how Doe was raped and beaten by this group of Epstein's friends who were not identified. And then there's another quote from the spider again. By his 31st birthday, Jeffrey Epstein seemed to have turned a fateful corner into his life of outright deviancy. But he had seemingly also learned that there were two kinds of people in the world. Those who could make a fuss about his actions like Michael Stroll and those who could be compelled into silence like Jane Doe for those.

And towards the end of 1984, I believe here, Epstein started consulting for governments and individuals needing to relocate embezzled funds, often in offshore accounts. And he leveraged those connections to high profile arms dealers, Douglas Lease and Adnan Khashoggi, engaging in complex financial dealings. So he's he's reach was becoming international and taking in all manners of individuals, especially in like the arms dealing world and stuff like that.

And that's kind of a conspiracy surrounds that he may have been involved in intelligence agencies at this time as well. We'll go into more detail about that down the line. But with the amount of people he was meeting and the amount of high profile individuals and their positions in the international kind of scene.

It's posited that he was involved in intelligence gathering for government organizations, which is entirely possible. So this was a very...

A very formative year, a very important year in the life of Epstein. This is when he committed his first crime. But it's also when he started to kind of branch out into the wider net of ultra wealthy people. I also think that his specific manner of how he attacked that girl kind of indicates that there was a previous history of it. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, it sounds like it.

It was like this level of premeditation that kind of implies previous situations. Yeah, and at least by 1984 we know it was happening. Yeah, I definitely... This is the first documented case, the first allegation of this, but I don't think that this just came out of nowhere. I don't think that this was his first actual case of abuse. I think he was probably likely...

before like like this many years beforehand so in 1987 epstein was introduced to stephen hoffenberg and joined towers financial corporation eventually becoming involved in a massive ponzi scheme around this time epstein's uh stated to some people that he was an intelligence agent he possessed an austrian passport that had his photo but with a false name

A note is that prosecutors later alleged that between 1988 and 1993, Towers Financial defrauded investors over $460 million. The scheme involved selling bogus investments and using new investor money to pay off returns to earlier investors, creating the illusion of profitability.

Epstein's role in the scheme is disputed. Hoffenberg claims Epstein was the master architect, manipulating financial reports and orchestrating investor relations. Epstein denied any wrongdoing and was never charged.

Everywhere he goes with these companies, he's embroiled in these giant financial conspiracies and lawsuits and stuff. It's crazy. I mean, it's not crazy because obviously the upper elite of New York at the time were highly connected and they probably all schemed together. But it's just crazy. It's like how CEOs constantly fail upwards now, Charlie. We always talk about that on the official podcast and stuff. Once you get it to a certain level, there's no failing. You just keep going up.

And it seems like that was the case with Epstein as well. Like no matter what, no matter what legal situation he found himself in or no matter what conspiracy he found himself in, he just constantly kept getting opportunities, positions of power and stuff like that. And that's just the world it was at the time, I guess. And yeah, that just seems to be the case forever. Like if you, if you amass that kind of power at any point, it seems like you always keep it and will only keep going upwards from it.

Like he's been caught now twice involved in these financial crimes. And yet he keeps getting more opportunities to do them down the line. It's wild. Yeah.

And then if you want to read this, Isaiah, the second note. Yeah. So in 2017, when questioned about his part in Epstein's lenient 2008 conviction, the former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Florida, Alexander Acosta, was reportedly told to back off with claims that Epstein, quote, belonged to intelligence and was, quote, above his pay grade.

So this theory comes up a lot, especially with his death, but there's a lot of people who believe that if not a direct intelligence agent, Epstein was at least some kind of informant for dealings happening in New York or whatnot.

Or even like I previously said, he had relationships with overseas arms dealers. It's entirely believable to me, at least, that he was in cahoots, let's say, with intelligence agencies, whether foreign or domestic.

I don't know, but I fully believe that he was intelligence or at least semi-intelligence. Another thing to keep in mind, a lot of people hear that and they think like, oh, okay, so was he not guilty of some stuff? Did he not? But just because you give information to governments does not make you a good person by any means. Both can be true at the same time.

I don't think they had the official, he didn't have the official blessing from the agencies to do what he was doing. He was just a valuable asset. I would guess because of his relation to arms dealers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And yeah, so that's kind of crazy to me that a former US attorney for the Southern District of Florida put on the record, came out and said that, yeah, he belonged to intelligence and was above his pay grade. So, I mean, when it's being said by officials like that, like an open setting, then it does lead a lot of credibility to the idea, at least.

And then in 1989, Epstein gains power of attorney over one of his biggest clients, Leslie Wexner and his finances. Uh, Wexner was the founder of L brands, which I believe is like the limited Victoria's secret and, um, bath and body and stuff like that. Like a bunch of companies under that one brand. Uh, so he had power of attorney. Now, can someone tell me what power of attorney actually gives you? I, as far as I know, it's like the biggest thing ever. Like that's,

That's massive. So as I understand it, and maybe you'll know more about this than I do, Isaiah, if you're given power of attorney, you can sign for them. You can negotiate on their behalf in an official capacity. Basically, you can operate autonomously under them because you've been given that right. At least that's how I understand it. I think the biggest thing you can do with power of attorney is actually sign on behalf of your client. Right. So you're basically like their official lawyer? Yeah.

Maybe? No, it's more than that. You can do that for deals outside of legal deals. If L Brands wanted to make some kind of collaborative move, I guess, if you're given power of attorney, you can be the one to sign off on it. I think that's how it works. I can double check. That does make sense because most I usually hear about power of attorney is when someone is in a position where they can't make executive decisions for themselves. If they've lost...

the capability to make decisions, then Power of Attorney is signed over. In this case, it's kind of, like, really weird. This guy was kind of... Leslie Wexner was kind of, like, at the height of his power, and he signs over Power of Attorney to Epstein? Like, that's crazy. Yeah, so...

Basically, what y'all are saying about it gives you power in legal sense is like the sense most people hear power of attorney is when someone's on life support. Yeah, something like that.

that Leslie Wexner like lost a dispute and the power of attorney went to Epstein or if he willingly gave it over or what. I'm pretty sure it was willingly.

It pretty much says that, at least in the sense of signatures, like making decisions, Epstein effectively has an equal level of control of the company. So that's a pretty big thing that when you imagine he was the guy to make decisions for Bath and Body Works and Victoria's Secret and all that. Victoria's Secret, yeah. Yeah, that's a huge position. I mean, it shows their connection. I fully believe, personally, that Leslie Wexner...

was likely just as involved in Epstein's schemes if he was giving him this much power and money and stuff like that. Not to put the cart before the horse, because I know we'll talk about it later, but one of the big claims about Epstein is blackmail, that he would do all these things to get a bunch of blackmail on these very wealthy, powerful people for his own gain. To me, this seems like the first instance of this, where he may have had some really...

heavy blackmail on Wex, uh, on L brands Wexner here, and eventually leverage that to get this power of attorney over L brands. Cause that is a huge deal. I looked it up just to double check. And for business, when you're granted power of attorney, it's a document that allows you to grant permission to a person to receive confidential information, represent your business before the franchise tax board and act on its behalf. So pretty much

He is L Brands at that point. Can be, for that matter. Yeah, it's crazy. That is a crazy amount of power that I just could not see a corporation or a corporate individual signing over that power willingly if there wasn't some kind of coercive element to it. I really just couldn't. Yeah.

Is there also to kind of play devil's advocate? I think what Charlie said is more likely that it was a blackmail scenario. But is it also possible that maybe Epstein was doing so well with the finances that Leslie was like, well, if I just give you power of attorney, you can make financial decisions yourself. But he could make those financial decisions and advice without directly controlling him. It's less likely. I'm just I'm mostly asking that.

is in the sense that maybe he was so good at what he did that that was kind of the inception of him getting away with a lot of stuff. A bunch of people kind of saw it as like, well, I don't want to go against my bank account. Right. Um,

But yeah, what Charlie said is more likely, I think, that it was blackmail. Either way, it either shows coercive element with Leslie Wexner or Leslie Wexner having just an incredible amount of trust in Epstein, whether through shared experiences or...

for the activities they would do and stuff like that. I definitely think this incriminates Leslie Wexner, honestly. Either way, he's got something dirty out there. In Minecraft, yeah. He's got something like some blackmail on him through Epstein, or he still was just a really close friend to them and did those things. There's also some interesting...

information about Leslie Wexner as well. He's been accused of ignoring reports from L Brand's executives, so other executives within the company, that Epstein was abusing his connection to Wexner by posing as a recruiter of Victoria's Secret models.

So, Epstein would go around pretending to be a recruiter of Victoria's Secret models and do one-on-one interviews with them and stuff like that. So, there has been accusations that he abused his position in that regard. And also, and obviously that was ignored by Wexner because Wexner and Epstein were connected from the 1980s all the way up until his arrest in 2007. So...

No amount of reporting or anything like that did anything to change. Oh, wait, Wexner got arrested in 07? What for? No, Epstein got arrested, I believe. Oh, his 07 arrest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, so that's when, what's his name, Wexner kind of like dipped from the scene. Yeah.

Wexner also sold Epstein his New York property. And in July 1991, he also, in addition to granting Epstein power of attorney, he also added him as a trustee onto the board of the Wexner Foundation. So he was putting Epstein in all of his places. He was putting him in power of attorney, onto the board. He was putting him in his fucking New York properties and stuff like that. Yeah.

Like, Wexner was potentially the biggest Epstein fanboy of all time. Like, I could not see anyone in the history of Epstein that, like, was more connected to Epstein than Wexner. Yeah, and Wexner appears in the Epstein documents, like, all the documents that come out. Yeah, Wexner is in there in a big capacity. Yeah, real upstanding citizen. Yeah.

I fully believe that to some degree, to a massive degree, Wexner kind of gave Epstein the power and the ability to do these things.

that he did. So in 1990, Epstein, after becoming financially stable because of controlling Wexner's kind of fortune, he purchased a mansion in Palm Beach, Florida. This would become his primary residence and is where many cases of abuse and trafficking would take place. So this was the big one. This was the big mansion that everyone probably knows about other than his island. He owned a mansion in Palm Beach and this would become his primary place of residence.

Let's shift gears a bit from Epstein because I don't think you can talk about Epstein really without talking about his other biggest connection in his life, which was Ghislaine Maxwell. Did you guys want to start?

on that yeah i'll talk about the witch oh do you want to go ahead charlie if you don't mind i find because the just laying maxwell story is a very important one and it's also worth mentioning that this is still kind of an ongoing one can do one of you remember off the top of your head is she is she sentenced to 20 years in jail for 20 for involvement 20 years i think it's 20 isn't that

So as we go through this story, I haven't read through the entire document towards the end. I don't know how much you put just laying in here. She was a huge part of what happened with Epstein and all of the awful shit that went on with this operation. And somehow she's only received 20 fucking years for her involvement. It's insulting. It's disgraceful. Look, all I'm saying, man, they don't make public executions like they used to. All right. So...

I'm not going to be happy whatever happens. It's actual craziness because it's all right in front of our eyes and we can't do anything about it. 20 years for her involvement in this? That's probably like a parole period as well, like a pretty generous parole period. She probably won't even spend the 20 years. She'll serve like seven and then get out on house arrest or something. Yeah.

And she's a high-profile individual. She's probably in the cushy wing as well. Or the part of the prison that's still got butlers and stuff like that. Probably. She's over there, chilling. Yeah, it really makes me happy and trustworthy of our legal system and the people involved in it. This entire case is filled to the brim of just the most textbook examples of abortions of justice, basically. It's just corruption from top to bottom. Top to bottom, 100%.

Ghislaine Maxwell, so as briefly mentioned, she was an important part of this entire operation. So here's another quote from the spider. She was born in 1961. She was the daughter of media mogul Robert Maxwell. She was one of nine children and often said to be her father's favorite. He even named the boat he fell off of after her, the Lady Ghislaine.

Wait, wait. So he fell off a boat and named it? That's the Lady Just Lane now. He named it and then fell off. He was like... He may have died from falling off. I'm not sure. I'd have to fact check that again. But yeah, he fell off a boat. He fell off the boat called the Lady Just Lane. Yeah.

I feel like he must have died otherwise it wouldn't be mentioned like if you fall off a boat and you just get back on it's not exactly a noteworthy event well it depends these are probably like mega yachts you know these are very wealthy people that's a long fall from a mega yacht I guess perhaps yeah but uh anyway he died falling off he died falling off of his yacht named the lady kiss lane on the canary islands he saved a boat after his daughter then died on it yeah

his favorite movie it's poetic in a way his whole death is a conspiracy too because he was connected to like Mossad and a bunch of other intelligence agencies which funny enough look where we're at now so he's his own can of worms but um

Yeah, he died on the boat he named after her. So she was a socialite and extremely connected to the rich and powerful, obviously through Robert Maxwell. In the early 1980s, she was introduced to Epstein through her father in New York. The precise timing of Ghislaine Maxwell's introduction to Jeffrey Epstein is actually a little contentious. While her father reportedly linked them up in the 1980s, other accounts placed their initial meetings at an early 90s New York party.

after a personal upheaval for Maxwell. Then we have another quote from The Spider. There are always suggestions that Robert Maxwell also worked for Israeli intelligence. While he may... Man, I'm struggling to read today. While he might not have been a fully-fledged agent, he certainly considered himself an asset. So there's that connection.

Yeah. In 1991, after Robert Maxwell's death, it was revealed that the Maxwell publishing company had been over-inflating its value and without its founder alive to run it, the company was dissolved. Not only was the business about to default on some loans, Robert had allegedly stolen 400 euros from 32,000 of his employees' pension funds. So that's, so that, that was written a bit weird. Uh, he, he stole 400, uh,

euros from each person yeah yeah take 400 400 euros i'm going to steal 400 dollars i must create a nest egg for my family i'll take 400 it's like one cent from each employee they'll never suspect a thing

So then after this, Ghislaine moved to New York, worked out of a real estate office, and grew to be known as a prominent socialite. She had inherited an 80,000 euro year trust left to her by her father, and was known to tell her friends that she was poor.

Again, a quote from The Spider. It was the first time in Ghislaine's life that she was without a controlling and domineering male figure in her life. Robert Maxwell had been known to warn his children, confidence is like virginity, you can only lose it once. What a great dad. He sounds like a real stand-up guy. Great thing to tell your young daughter.

Remember, once you feel unconfident, it's gone forever. Sorry. Don't even try. Don't even try to get it back. It's gone.

Go ahead. They started their relationship in the early 90s, but it was often described as platonic, according to the spider again. Roberts, one of Epstein's more outspoken victims, recalled once asking Maxwell about the nature of her own relationship with Epstein, the teenager wondered what the older woman got out of her seemingly one-sided relationship with Epstein. And in quotes, this is from Maxwell. It takes the pressure off me to have sex with him, she responded. She told Roberts that she had...

hit hard times and was disgraced and Epstein had offered her her job. Jesus Christ. Yeah. I mean, rough times. She was getting paid 80,000 euros a year just from a trust alone. Is that euros or pounds? I mean, either way, it's not. It's a lot of money. Yeah. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. That is pounds. Yeah, that's pounds. You're right. 80,000 pounds per year. So,

So she was still well off. That's a lot of money, especially in the 90s and 80s. And that's just from the trust. That's just given to her. So, you know, she could have made other money as well. She probably had assets left over. Yeah.

She worked at the real estate office, so she was already making a salary on top of the trust. So she was making great money. Yeah. So I don't, I think this is a generous recount from her of why she was, you know, why she got with Epstein in the first case. I think it's likely that there was a lot of benefits for her in terms of money and power, and that's what she was attracted to. But I don't think it's fair to say that she had hit hard times or whatever.

And I also don't know what she means by disgraced. Maybe because her father went through all those scandals and stuff and her name was... Because she only got a measly $80,000 a year. That's why she was disgraced. Thank you. Well, maybe in the terms of the out-of-touch, ultra-wealthy individual socialites at that time...

When your friends are like the president and the richest people in New York, then sure, you would think that, wouldn't you? Now you're poor. She's saying all of this to one of Epstein's victims, one of the victims that she also victimized. So she was...

fucking bragging to her about how rough her life was and how shit her life was all the hard times and how disgraced she was while she's talking to an actual fucking victim here also is that quote yeah is that quote to the victim saying oh well since i'm older it takes the pressure off me to have sex with them

Is that what she means by that quote? Yeah, that's Maxwell saying that to the victim. Yeah, so she's basically like, oh, well, I'm not, you know, prepubescent, so I'm safe. Yeah, it's more like she was saying, like, take one for the team, basically. Let me have a rest. This is your job now. It's so gross, yeah. It's so gross how kind of, like, normalized this was in their entire relationship and stuff. It's so candid, you know?

So then Maxwell was responsible for some of Epstein's most high profile connections, such as Prince Andrew. And it also led to connections with the Kennedys, the Clintons, the Trumps and Alan Dershowitz. So this is Maxwell kind of

I guess, introduced Epstein to the more socialites of the world. He had connections with the financial people, like the corporate world and stuff like that. This was his introduction to a whole different element of upper class wealth, which was those socialites. Yeah.

The political elite, yeah. Yeah. This quote is from The Spider, again, by Barry Levin. "'Jeffrey is very important to me, and I need him to marry me,' Oxenberg recalled Maxwell, saying. Maxwell confided that she was unable to keep up with Epstein's sexual appetite because Epstein's needs were impossible to meet."

You can take from that what you will. Maxwell felt obliged to bring him young girls to fulfill his sexual needs. That's another quote. According to Christina Oxenberg's account of the conversation, Oxenberg says she was horrified by what Maxwell was telling her and tried to change the subject. Maxwell went on saying, they're nothing, these girls. They are trash. So just in case you think that Maxwell is somehow a victim in all of this, she is...

She's a monster. Let's put it that way. She is despicable. If you don't know her involvement, she was fundamentally one of the main recruiters that brought the girls to Epstein. She was basically like

one of the major puppet masters behind it. Like she brought so many of the victims to him. And then also, if I remember correctly, she like mentored them on how to like, please him to how to, yeah, please him and like do their job. Yeah.

for him and the clients it 20 years for her involvement here should be still so fucking frustrating it should be a hundred percent it's like the amount of women uh that have to live on now as victims from this like she's put so much evil into the world you know like it has she has to be away for life honestly in my opinion it is it is like there's no rehabilitation from something like this how much how many people you victimized it's just fucking despicable

like they have to carry on with these scars now yeah let's talk about uh virginia uh louise roberts so you can't talk about epstein without unfortunately talking about his victims of which there are many let's shift for a moment to go over one of the most public victims to analyze how the victimization would typically track so virginia louise roberts was born on august the 9th of 1983 in sacramento california to parents to parents skye and lynn roberts

In 1994, her father loses his job and the family relocates to Palm Beach, Florida. In 1996, at the age of 13, Virginia was introduced to Maxwell while working at Mar-a-Lago Resort in Palm Beach.

Maxwell recruits Virginia to work for Epstein as a massage therapist in training. Almost immediately, Epstein and Maxwell made her into their personal sex slave. Oh my god. So they kind of entice these young individuals in with these lucrative job offers, basically. Or at least lucrative for them. They're 14. People need money.

Kids don't know any better. They were very good at identifying, like, susceptible victims to these things. Yeah, father loses his job. She's 13 years old working at a resort. The family needs money, right? So what are you going to do? Say no when the boss wants you to do this? And then that just keeps tracking until you eventually... Yeah, it's infinitely predatory. Yeah.

From 1996 to 2002, Virginia was allegedly flown around the world on Epstein's private jets and yachts, visiting his various properties, including his residences in Palm Beach, New York City, New Mexico, and his private island in the U.S. Virgin Islands, which we will talk about momentarily. She was allegedly trafficked by Epstein and Maxwell to powerful men, including politicians, royalty, and business leaders. She claims she is forced to have sexual relations with them.

I felt that he, and this is a quote from Young Virginia that was mentioned once again in the book, The Spider.

I felt that he and Ghislaine really cared for me. We'd do family things. We'd watch Sex and the City. We'd pop popcorn, have normal dinners, drink normal drinks. But all of a sudden, it ends up in a gigantic foursome with Jeffrey and Ghislaine and other girls. Oh my gosh, man. It was a very sick and twisted family. I mean, Tex...

textbook case of like I mean is it really even grooming when it's so directly straight into it it's just rape it's forced it's just it's sex slavery and like oh man the normalcy around it is so sickening as well like the oh let's have dinner let's watch movies and yeah alright now it's time for sex yeah it's fucking disgusting it's a lot more than grooming it's significantly more

I think there's an element to the grooming in the first situations probably to get them to that point yeah absolutely and also like I don't appreciate I mean obviously I don't appreciate anything Maxwell says but the way Maxwell phrases her statements as being like oh well I was just satisfying them but then all the victims are like yeah Maxwell was physically there in the events as well yeah she's part of the foursome yeah man okay yeah all right

So in 2002, at the age of 19, after being sent to a massage school in Thailand, a cover for her to recruit another girl and bring her back to the U.S. under Maxwell's orders, Virginia escapes Epstein's orbit with the help of her future husband, Robert Epstein.

I don't know how to pronounce it either. Robert. I don't either. A G, a G, a cool guy, basically. The two were married and she moved with him to Australia in 2003, where she broke off all contact from Epstein and Maxwell. So it seems like Robert helped her get out of this situation. Yeah. See, she met, she met a, yeah. What, what, what a life change, you know, she goes from this horrible situation to a,

A, being with a stand-up guy, it sounds like. The love of her life. Fantastic. Love it. They got married. And also, she

she gets to move to australia fuck yeah something something else i do want to mention about her if you notice the way that these uh the documents are phrased for any court reports there's a lot of jane does because obviously a lot of women who were a part of this don't want their name out there that they were associated with it uh but there is special there is a special appreciation for virginia being like no this is my name this is my story this is what happened um

Very brave of her. Incredibly. Obviously brave for everyone who spoke out, but like Virginia especially. So yeah. Yeah. Um,

And if anyone has been keeping up with the recent Epstein developments, those documents that came out, Virginia is the main victim that's referenced throughout most of those documents. When a lot of the accounts... We could have talked about, we could have gone into like so much more detail across the board with all these victims, but I really felt it was unnecessary for the purposes of this episode. That's why we singularly focused on Virginia here, because I think it provides kind of like a

an overview of what would happen with all the other girls as well. And she's the most public one. So I felt like it was the most applicable one to talk about on this episode, just so we can give you guys at home, you know, as much information as is necessary.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's understood that she represents a lot of other young girls who were dragged into this. There's another quote here, just real quick. Each of the underage victims who went to Epstein's house were in turn asked to bring friends with them. The victims would then be paid for giving a massage and also paid for the recruitment of other victims. So this was, for all intents and purposes, like a business in of itself. Like there was money being exchanged.

Um, like there was a recruitment though. It was like a pyramid scheme, almost like you get someone in and then you get them to bring two friends and stuff. It was fucking horrifying. The amount of like premeditation here.

You also need to clarify the massage is it's basically just having sex with the people there. It's not, it's not a massage as you think of it. Yeah, absolutely. That's just what they called it. Well, I think it's safe to assume whatever, whatever we say about Epstein and Maxwell in this, in this kind of,

These stories here just assume the worst because it's probably true. Like whatever they were doing was fucking just abhorrent. And then we also have a picture here of Prince Andrew and Maxwell with Virginia. So there's like many pictures and many evidence that people at home have probably seen that confirms the connection between Virginia with, let's say,

powerful people and also the Epstein and Maxwell kind of relationship. So there's really no room for debate. But didn't you hear Prince Andrew had nothing to do with it, according to him? Yeah, he can't sweat. Clearly an innocent man. This is where the infamous...

In the infamous interview where Prince Andrew, when defending himself, said, well, that can't possibly be correct because I don't sweat. I have a condition. Because one of the things Virginia described was his sweaty hands, if I remember correctly. And he's like, nope, that couldn't be me. These hands don't get sweaty. I lost the ability to sweat in the war. She was very specific about that night. She described dancing with you and you profusely sweating and that she went on to have

There's a slight problem with the sweating because I have a peculiar medical condition which is that I don't sweat or I didn't sweat at the time and that was, oh actually yes, I didn't sweat at the time because I had suffered what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in the Falklands War when I was shot at

and I simply, it was almost impossible for me to sweat. And it's only because I have done a number of things in the recent past that I'm starting to be able to

do that again. So I'm afraid to say that there's a medical condition that says that I didn't do it, so therefore... They look sweaty in the picture. Look how red they are. I know. So red. Also, I watched that interview before this recording. He constantly said, I don't have any recollection of meeting her. Bitch, you're in the photo. Your hands are around her waist, right here. What the fuck do you mean? There's a photo. Man, it's so annoying how like

arrogant these rich powerful people are. You know why they're arrogant? Because they get away with it. Every time they get away with it. Is he in jail? No, of course not. Alright, so this is just one of the first handouts from many, many victims. Never mind, I can't say that on the internet. Continue with what you were about to say. Back up, back up, back up.

Every story of how they victimize follows a similar pattern where Epstein and Maxwell would lead a victim through promises of money, fame, or career advancement. So the typical kind of power imbalance stuff. They use the cover of their platonic relationship as a way to skirt suspicion of their ulterior motives. So, you know, because they were...

a heckin' wholesome family unit or whatever. They were a couple. No one suspected that they were doing nefarious things. Parents were often duped. It's just me, my unmarried wife, and our six adopted teenage girls. Nothing suspicious at all. Parents were often duped into allowing their children to be in the care of the Epsteins, or Epstein and Maxwell. Many of these girls or women reported their assaults to local authorities.

where some were dismissed entirely. Burial of the Vines, The Spider covers all of this in great, albeit disturbing, detail. So if you want additional details for your own research, you can check out that book. It's quoted a lot in the research document. It's a good book. We can go back to Epstein's

I think it was just important to go over some of the other central figures to his story here. Beginning with the first arrest in Epstein's history of run-ins with the law. In the early to mid-1990s, rumors of Epstein's sexual misconduct with underage girls began circulating in Palm Beach society, where he maintains a residence. Multiple underage girls report incidents of sexual abuse by Epstein to Palm Beach police, but no charges are filed at this time.

In 1998, Jeffrey Epstein purchases Little St. James Island, a private island in the U.S. Virgin Islands, for $7.95 million, which for the record is a lot cheaper than I suspected private islands in the Virgin Islands to be, but whatever. In the 2000s, it says the island becomes Epstein's primary residence and a luxurious playground, attracting high-profile guests including politicians, celebrities, and academics.

Tight security measures in a remote location ensure complete privacy for Epstein and his guests. Rumors about the island's activities began to circulate with reports emerging of underage girls being brought to the island where concerns of potential sex trafficking arise.

The island earns a few local nicknames. The Island of Sin, Epstein Island, Pedophile Island, and Orgy Island. Pedophile Island's a bit on the nose. It's not very catchy. Oh, have you heard the secret name that we call Epstein's Island? We call it Pedophile Island. I'm not sure what goes down there, but...

Honestly though, this guy, this motherfucker called he's playing the Lolita Express. So I'm, yeah, it was pretty boring. It's entirely possible he just called it Pedophile Island. Oh, you guys want to come to Pedophile? This is also, like, details like this get me whenever all those celebrities or politicians who were involved were like, well, I went for the tennis. I didn't know what was going on. You went to Pedophile Island for the tennis. On the Lolita Express. Yeah.

What was the Always Sunny clip? He's like, now listen, you're going to see my name in the Epstein documents, but it's not like that. It was 95% of us were there for snorkeling, and it was just the 5% that were there for the bad stuff. Like, that's the bad name. That's where the reputation comes from. Lovely beach location.

It's such a shame that the 5% ruined it for the rest of it. The good God-loving people going there for snorkeling. The good God-loving people going to Pedophile Island for snorkeling. The island's lavish amenities included a temple-like... Oh yeah, I forgot about the temple. A temple-like massage cabana, a movie theater, and a swimming pool with underwater tiles depicting nude models.

This is a quote from the Daily Beast in March of 2019. Epstein is a registered sex offender in New York and Florida. He's apparently kept a low profile in recent years and in his annual sex offender registrations listed his primary address as Little St. James, his private island. We haven't got to the part where he's registered yet, but that's coming.

Victoria's Secret models were among the guests a former Epstein employee saw there, and billionaire Les Wexner visited the island at least once. Prince Andrew, Duke of York, paid at least one visit aboard Epstein's private jet to the island, although former staff said he visited Little St. James several times.

How is that possible? Is that fucking crazy? How is that possible? The parents are like, yeah, that guy, he did it. We witnessed it. And then the police...

like still get so throttled by lawyers they're like sorry we can't do anything like multiple girls as well multiple girls yeah yeah this was happening all the time like he was he was openly molesting people get them to come to the island and over and over it just gets away with it

It's actually insane. It's so disgusting. And yeah, like you said at the start, it's eye opening. You know, this was the very first case where I was, I was like, holy shit, there is actually like a pedophile upper elite that's like controlling shit. It's crazy.

untouchable just because of their power and influence. Yeah. This is like, not to get too depressing, this is like the reason I quit keeping up with elections or government or anything. I'm just like, what? Who cares? Like, if this, if people can do this level of abhorrence and just walk off, like, good god, man. Anyway. But what power do we have? Exactly, yeah. Other than things I can't talk about all the time.

Things I can't say on the internet. Well, that's a good question, Jackson. What power do we have? That leads me into my main point of today's meeting. I don't know.

I wish we had more power. So in 2005, another underage girl files a lawsuit against Epstein alleging sexual abuse. This sparks a renewed investigation by Palm Beach police. Palm Beach detectives interview multiple victims and witnesses uncovering a pattern of Epstein luring underage girls to his home for massages and sexual encounters. They gather physical evidence and electronic records supporting the accusations.

So then finally, in May of 2006, Palm Beach police arrest Epstein on charges of unlawful sex with a minor. However, the state attorney's office opts for a plea deal instead of pursuing a trial. Instead of pursuing a trial based on the strong evidence, state attorney Barry Krischer strikes a controversial plea deal with Epstein's defense team. Are you guys ready to get mad? I'm ready to get mad. I'm ready. I'm ready. I love this next paragraph.

Epstein pleads guilty to one count of soliciting prostitution and one count of soliciting prostitution from a minor receiving a lenient sentence of 18 months in prison with work release and having to file as a sex offender. The work release allowed Epstein to leave six days a week for 12 hours a day.

He was transported by his own limousine and would often stop by his home for hours at a time. He only ends up serving 13 months. So he doesn't even serve the full amount of time, which is he's free to leave six days a week. Holy fucking shit. He basically got a summer camp. Yeah. He spends a year doing like sleepovers at night. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh my god, it's so aggravating, man. Have you looked into the state attorney Barry Krischer recently? What does he have to say about that?

There's no doubt he's complicit now in a ton of other victims because you know for the 12 hours, 6 days a week that he was at his place, he was 100% sexually abusing more young girls. What does Barry have to say? I thought there was additional stuff with Barry. I might be misremembering. I think it was the...

No, I'm thinking of Alexander Acosta, never mind. I don't have any other supporting details about Barry Krischer, but that would be a good follow-up, yeah. I'd be super curious on what he has to say about that sentencing and how he came to that as a just punishment for the crime. I think I just googled him and found his home address.

We can go ask him in person. The plea deal included a non-prosecution agreement that granted immunity to, quote, potential co-conspirators named by Epstein. This meant that individuals potentially involved in Epstein's crimes could not be charged based on any information he provided. The victims were not informed or consulted about the plea deal, violating their rights under the Crime Victims Rights Act.

This meant they had no opportunity to object or provide input into the agreement that significantly impacted their case. The plea deal and Epstein's light sentence sparked widespread criticism. Many felt the punishment did not reflect the seriousness of the crimes and raised concerns about Epstein's wealth and influence, shaping the outcome of the case. Following Epstein's release, although Maxwell continued to attend prominent social functions, she and Epstein were no longer seen together, at least publicly.

So trouble in paradise, trouble in paradise. Basically, all these girls, these young girls get become a victim of this monster. And then the courts, without consulting them about the deal, like they're supposed to just say that they'll do this short deal and none of the co-conspirators will get in trouble. So.

I mean, obviously this plea deal, let's say, was intended to protect a lot of very powerful people. I think that's pretty obvious looking back. But even in the writing right here, what is the point of getting the names of people involved in Epstein's case, but then not being able to charge them? I don't understand what purpose that would even be for saying that or making that part of the obligation. Yeah.

It's so weird. So the whole like conspirators won't be named immunity that happens in deals a lot, but not deals like this. Like when it is a known ring or continuation of like something like sure they'll do this with like drug trafficking, but not with like child molesting, you know, like they try to get as many people as I can.

I thought it was the other way around usually. Like if you're, if you take a plea deal, then you're safe, but your co-conspirators are the ones that get in trouble. Yeah, yeah, that's normally how it goes down. Yeah, this is the other way around. I did it, but no one I know gets in trouble. Yeah, that's so weird. That's probably a part that his attorneys negotiated in because his attorneys was also probably their attorneys. So they're like, okay, he's not doing, we're not doing this whole deal unless everyone else gets to stay out of it too.

Yeah, and it's probably like maybe if that were the case, Epstein wanted that in there to protect himself so that other powerful people didn't maybe unalive him somehow after the fact. Yeah, that's crazy. At the time in 2009. Yeah, couldn't see that happening. Anyway, I wonder if that'll go anywhere. On to the next paragraph. Yeah.

So before we're doing the next paragraph, I see that we're getting to like the arrest and all of that. I think it's important that we really explain what's

what Epstein did with all of the very powerful celebrities that you keep seeing names tossed around of. So since he had all of these really powerful connections, he would leverage that to get these big celebrities to hang out with them, fly to his Island with them where they'd vacation and shit. And he kept extensive records of that. So right now you can just go and look at the actual flight logs for who boarded, when, where all of that. And among those names are some really, um,

powerful and well-known celebrities like Chris Tucker's on there. Trump's on there. Tons of people. Kevin Spacey's on there, which is why you see so many celebrities always referenced when Epstein's brought up.

And what they did, Matt Groening, I'll tell that story because that's a fucking wild one. Like, what they would do is they'd fly on his plane and either go to the island or just fly on the plane with him. But he would often have, like, the underage girls on the plane with him and offer massages, which it's basically sex. In the case of Matt Groening, a story was told that he had his feet massaged by one of the girls.

And she said that his feet smelled so bad she had to keep fighting the urge to vote. And all of this is like public information now that Matt Groening was there. He's on the manifest in the logs. This story is out from one of the victims and he's still totally fucking fine. So all these celebrities whose names appear on this list.

They don't face any repercussions. And there's always the cope from fans of the celebrity that like, oh, they must not have known what was going on, which always blows my fucking mind because the plane was literally called the Lolita Express. Like there's no way you wouldn't know what's happening, especially with like underage girls acting as flight attendants offering massages. It's ridiculous to even make the claim.

So I just wanted to explain. There was just a bunch of 12 year old girls on the plane, Charlie. What? You think they were doing something weird with them? You think those girls were there in their own volition on a summer job? That was wrong of me to even insinuate. I guess I was so stupid.

Yeah, yeah. That's why so many celebrities are always associated with the Jeffrey Epstein list. It includes so many of them in those logs. It's a really extensive list of them, and I can't remember all of them off the top of my head, just some of the more prominent ones that keep getting mentioned every time it comes up. I have a list further down of some of the most notable ones. But yeah, trying to put myself in that situation, if I hopped on a plane, if I walked up the ramp of a private plane and the entire plane was...

like, you know, operated by 12, 13 year old girls. I'd be like, what the fuck's going on here? I'm out of here. No, thank you. I'll take the next flight. Is Chris Hansen on here somewhere? What the heck? He's the pilot. This is something that I always have to mention because I keep seeing

I keep seeing people say like, oh, they might not have known. It's like, no, there's really no wiggle room for them to be somehow innocent here. Even if they didn't fuck one of the kids, they knew something fishy was going on. I think what happened to a lot of people, because some of them have come out and talked about this, right? I think they were told like, oh yeah, there's this island. We should go hang out. And then they go and they see a bunch of like underage girls around and they suspect something's up and they don't say anything.

I think that's the most charitable explanation I can give, that they were cowards. Yeah, so that's David Copperfield getting a lot of heat for that right now because in the newer reports he even mentioned that he was at least somewhat loosely aware that some of the girls were recruiting other girls for this stuff and he still did nothing about it. It's ridiculous. There's no one innocent on Jeffrey Epstein's flight logs. There's nobody that somehow not...

yep they got it yeah well steven hawking was photographed on his island pictures are pretty funny i will admit of like those pictures are wild of him like bro there's pictures of like i'll get you a couple to put in the episode but there's like pictures that came out of him like chilling by the pool and they they got a little submarine and like put him inside of it like it's very it's very surreal

At least the island was like handicap friendly then. He's mentioned in the most recent reports, but not as like someone who was engaging with the miners or anything. He's mentioned in one of the emails saying that there was like

shit like it's from jeffrey epstein if i remember correctly saying that they needed to shut down some rumors or allegations and then he mentioned stephen hawking's in relation to an underage orgy and then his name appears again as a request for further information but there are photographs of him on epstein's island so it is very weird so the idea is that epstein was talking about hey there's a rumor of um like there's a rumor circulating currently of hawking uh in an underage orgy on our island

And that doesn't necessarily mean the rumor's false. I mean, if the rumor's being spread about that through even their powerful connections or whatever, I think that's pretty believable, honestly. No, it is. It is. It's just it wasn't, like, confirmed that Stephen Hawking engaged in it. But it is confirmed that Stephen Hawking did go to the island. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's no... So there's no... I mean, apart from, like, the things like the foot massage for Matt Groening, there's no direct confirmation of...

these powerful individuals

doing anything like this. There's witness accounts from some of the victims for people like Prince Andrew and stuff like that. But most of them go by without direct witness testimonials of that sort. It's just the flight logs. But like Charlie said, it's very hard to believe that they're completely innocent given just how connected this powerful group of people were and how close they

They were in order to be going to like the island and stuff. And again, it just, the circumstances surrounding it, it's way more likely in my opinion. And I guess Charlie's opinion that they were at least connected to some degree.

Yeah. Complicit at the very, like, absolutely. Like in the documents, there's a lot of names that get thrown around. Like George Lucas, his name gets tossed around. It's like, did you see George Lucas there? No stuff like that. Or like, did Michael Jackson ever engage with any of the victims? And the victim responded with, no, they didn't see anything like that. But even still the fact that these people flew with Epstein is,

I just think that you can't write that off as just like, oh, they didn't know they were going for the atmosphere of fucking pedophile. Yeah, I heard that apparently Epstein would do this thing to try to get buddy buddy with like actors and stuff where he'd be like, oh, you got to fly to L.A. here. Let my flight get you. So like there were a couple of people who just like got shuttled by the planes and that's fine. You know, like, oh, this guy's got a private jet. Why not? I think.

So I think like, sure, whatever. But if someone actually went to the island, I don't really think they have any excuse. Yeah. At least again, maybe they didn't participate, like you said, but at least an excuse about not saying anything.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I think it's just... Like, I really feel like this is just, like, an upper elite of pedophiles that all know. Like, they all know. They all, like, have dirt on each other and stuff like that. They're in a different plane of existence, basically. Let's go on to... Yeah, we talked about the plea deal. Let's go with the final arrest and death. So, between 2006 and 2017, there's not that much detail because they kind of...

But think about how insane that is. 11 years of him being a known sex offender, like legally, and then continuing to make all these relations and stuff with high profile elite people going back and forth to islands. It takes 11 years before some development happens. Yeah, before something happens. And it's a crazy way that it pops up. So in 2017, Alexander Acosta, that was the guy that I quoted before, who said that he couldn't...

He had to take the plea deal because he was attached to intelligence. Epstein was attached to intelligence. Back in 2007. Stuff like that. Guarding the 2007 case, Alexander Acosta was asked about it. Yeah.

Yeah, so he was nominated for Secretary of Labor. His handling of the Epstein case was discussed as part of his confirmation hearing. So that was in 2017. And November 2018, so the following year, rumors circulate that Acosta was being considered as a possible successor to Attorney General Jeff Sessions. The Miami Herald published an investigation detailing Acosta's role in the Epstein case. That story revealed the extent of collaboration between federal prosecutors,

and Epstein's attorneys in their efforts to keep victims from learning of the plea deal. So there was a massive amount of collusion between federal prosecutors and Epstein's own attorneys. I mean, that's just so fucking disturbing. Is that not insane that what it took was an unrelated case of

like someone may be going to be attorney general and then uh so the miami herald comes out with an article that's like actually let's look at a case that he mishandled and that was the thing that was needed like it didn't matter until it could benefit other people politically

to take down an opponent, then it becomes a big deal. Yeah, exactly. It wasn't some kind of like government oversight where they stepped in and were like, oh, hang on, this guy's not a very good guy. This Epstein guy's not a very good guy. It wasn't that. It was some guy trying to get power, some guy being nominated to a position, and then the media doing, you know...

their job, ostensibly, by researching this guy, finding out about this history and bringing it back to the limelight, that then breaks everything down. It's not something that just naturally happened or anything like that. They waited for it to be used as ammo.

Yeah. Yeah. It could have gone on forever. For them. Yeah. Yeah. Like we got, we got very lucky to some degree that this did pop up again because it's very, it's very likely that they could have been completely successful in covering this up forever. And we would never have found out the true extent of what happened. It's crazy.

So in 2018, July 2018, the Miami Herald publishes a groundbreaking investigative series, Perversion of Justice, exposing Jeffrey Epstein's history of sexual abuse and his controversial 2008 plea deal. This reignites public outrage and opens new investigations. And then in December 2018, French authorities arrest Ghislaine Maxwell on charges related to her alleged involvement in the sex trafficking ring.

And then in February 21, 2019, a ruling in federal court returned Alexander Acosta's role in the Epstein case to the headlines yet again. The decision to keep the deal with Epstein secret until after it was finalized was found to be a violation of the Crime Victims' Rights Act of 2004, CVRA, which requires notifying victims of the progress of federal criminal cases. So because they didn't tell the victims that there was a massive issue there, and that's what bubbled this up to the surface,

And then in June 2019, Epstein resigns from his private foundation amid renewed scrutiny and legal pressure. His financial and social circles begin to distance themselves. Finally, it only took two fucking years

two situations of this for them to be like, oh, whoa, maybe we should step back from the old Epstein, from old pedophile... I won't be holidaying there anymore. They only did that because of the public eye on it now. Otherwise, they would have kept doing it. It's not like it was a moral decision they made. It's just more like, this is going to be bad PR here. They've got photographs of me skiing at Pedophile Island. I've got to be careful.

So July 6, 2019, Epstein is arrested by a joint task force of the FBI and NYPD at Teterboro Airport in New Jersey. He had just arrived on a private jet from Paris. Epstein is charged with one count of sex trafficking and minors and one count of conspiracy to commit sex trafficking. How is there only one count of each of those? Typically, it's because they'll build a case around a single one.

when the initial charge happens. And then from there they can add on. You just need to get him arrested for one and then you can keep going on after. So you take the most provable things or whatever, the ones with the most merit, the one with the most evidence currently, and then you build the case while you prove that you can arrest him on at least one. And once he's in, then you can start building out more victims and stuff. Gotcha. Okay, that makes sense. So these charges relate to the alleged abuse of girls in multiple states, including Florida and New York between 2002 and 2005.

The news of Epstein's arrest sends shockwaves through the world. Victims and advocates celebrate the potential for justice, obviously, finally. And Epstein is denied bail due to concerns about flight risk and potential witness tampering. So if this was any other year, I guess, where people weren't paying attention again, like 2009, and they were able to easily sweep it under the rug, he would have been given bail, probably, and he would have been fucking fined. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So luckily the public's focus was put on the right place for once because of like just the political landscape, like you said, Isaiah. So we got lucky to some degree here. The public fueled by media coverage and the stories of victims demand stronger prosecution and accountability for Epstein's powerful associates, which we haven't really received yet, but that's a story for a different day. July 19th, 2019, amid criticism of his mishandling of the Epstein case, Alexander Acosta resigned his role as secretary of labor.

Isn't that crazy? That's his legacy? This Alexander Acosta's legacy is the whole Epstein thing? Crazy. Yeah, it's so sad. Song on the world's smallest violin for Alexander.

In August 10th, 2019, Epstein dies by apparent unaliving in his jail cell. The sudden end prevents him from facing trial and leaves many questions unanswered about his crimes and potential co-conspirators. And then we come to the unaliving. The famed unaliving. Perhaps the most famed unaliving in at least recent memory. I'll run through. This was my forte. This is my wheelhouse, so to speak.

All right. So the description of his first few days in jail are anything but cozy. He is singled out by multiple gang members who try to extort him for money. He confides to his cellmate that he doesn't think he will survive in federal prison. On July the 18th, Epstein's request for house arrest was denied by a judge due to concerns about flight risk and potential witness tampering.

Five days later, on July the 23rd, Epstein was found semi-conscious on his cell floor with Marv's on his neck. A lot of you will probably remember the news reported that he had actually done it, that he was dead. And then it turned out like an hour later, oh wait, false alarm, he's not actually dead, just almost dead. This is what that's referring to. And then three days later, they report he is dead this time, for real. For real. We got it, finally. No take backsies this time, guys, we mean it.

We double tapped, yeah. His cellmate Nicholas Tartaglione summoned guards saying he found Epstein harming himself with a bed sheet. A supervisor called 911 and Epstein went to the hospital, then returned to jail. The incident linked to the media on July the 24th through Radar Online and on July the 25th through AP.

Tartaglione told guards that he had noticed that Epstein had a bed sheet around his neck and appeared to be trying to unalive himself. Can we say kill? Is that allowed? I don't know. Just say unalive. We'll just keep going unalive. He's a meme anyway. We'll keep running with it. Trying to unalive himself. But Epstein later denied that, claiming instead that he had been attacked, an allegation that Tartaglione denied. Now, Epstein had the following accounts to different people.

Inmate Tinsdale said that Epstein made a strangling gesture, nodding when Tinsdale asked if someone tried to strangle him. So that's one inmate saying that he was an attempt at strangling. Inmate Mercy said Epstein claimed he blacked out getting water with no memory of the incident.

And lawyer shown said Epstein told MCC officials he blacked out with no memory matching Mercy's account. Shown believes it was something Epstein agreed to go along with, not a unalive slash murder attempt. Now I want to mention too, all three of these individuals are incredibly low trust, right? Like two inmates of maximum security and a lawyer deeply concerned with this entire case, right? So I don't really take their testimonies to go that far.

And again, this isn't his death. This was just the first attempt, so to speak.

So after this, Tartaglione's lawyer sought the footage to show his client tried to save Epstein, but the Metropolitan Correctional Center failed to preserve video footage that could have shown what happened. Prosecutors blame technical errors. And this is where I get so mad thinking about the logistics of this. The first time, so the guy who's being accused of trying to kill him, Tartaglione, his lawyer says, well, give us the footage.

of this whole event and then the correctional center's like oh sorry video no work oops on july having the fucking video cameras there that's what do you mean the video doesn't work that's not how cameras work you have cameras 24 7 here if a camera went out in a maximum security facility you would replace it in minutes what do you mean the footage was

the most high it was a little grainy and they settled for nothing less than perfection on the most high profile arrest of the decade oh my gosh that's what's crazy the most high profile case in a long time how do you not have a guard positioned by the door at least like the entire fucking time well they did they did later he's really good at it too um

On July the 30th, Epstein is placed on an alive watch after a reported incident in his cell. This is another quote from the spider. They would not move him from the SHU to an alive watch unless he indicated to a prison psychologist or someone that he felt a desire to unalive himself.

You don't go there unless you express intent to quote hang up, which is prison slang for the act he was people believe that he was trying to do. The revelation of this previously unreported first instance of Epstein being placed on watch raises new questions about prison officials efforts to safeguard their high profile inmate.

A representative for the Bureau of Prisons declined to comment on the allegation because, of course, they did. Yeah, how crazy is it that you could just be like, no, I wouldn't say anything. I don't need to explain myself. Things went wrong, I guess. You want to explain how this is like the worst thing that's ever happened ever? No. Okay, thanks. Insightful, thank you.

Also, should we change it from Unalive to Hang Up? Maybe that's more... Hang Up's good. Hang Up's good. Yeah, we'll stick with that. On August the 1st, Epstein's new star lawyer, David Schoen... Oh, wait! The guy earlier who said, nope, I believe the other inmate that he tried to do it himself, that was his lawyer? Bro, I am about to throw something. I'm getting mad again, like, remembering all this.

David Shone met with Epstein for five hours and said Epstein was future focused and not intent to hang himself up. On August the 8th, Epstein signed his last will and testament worth over $577 million. His estate would go on to sell his island and give all of the money from the wild to

Sorry, that's a typo. Oh, sorry. You're good, you're good. From the will and from the wild. All the money from the will. He found all his money from the forest. He had that dog and the wild animal. All the money from the will and island sell to the victims. On August 9th, more damaging documents about Epstein's past were publicly released. Epstein is taking off of Hang Up Watch due to improvements of...

Due to improvements in his behavior, according to prison officials.

He makes his final phone call to Karina Shulak, who, quote, occupied the most significant position in his life. You'd think that'd be Ghislaine, the person who, quote, occupied the most significant position in his life. Yeah, but this Karina Shulak was romantically attached to Epstein at the time. I see. I see. Gotcha. Yeah, I could tell by the picture they look like buddies. Anyway, was she a victim?

I don't believe so. I think she was overage. Then I don't like her. To Karina Sholiak, who, quote, occupied the most significant position in his life. Epstein's cellmate moved out, leaving him alone in his cell.

Which apparently you can just do in a maximum security prison. Another quote from the Spi- I'm getting heated again, remembering this. This entire fucking case is so frustrating. It makes you want to eat metal. Like, I'm so- I'm furious. Okay. Another quote from the Spider says, If there were significant changes to Epstein's mental outlook, William Mercy, his inmate, companion, and de facto hangout counselor, missed them too.

The only thing I noticed is he was eating his meals on the floor. He would just say, it's easier this way. I didn't say anything to suggest, oh, he's spiraling down. And that has to be a quote from William Mercy. What about the first fucking hang-up case? Shouldn't that have put you on high alert? Yeah, Mercy's the guy who claims that he absolutely hung up on purpose, right? And then he's like, oh, I didn't see anything to suggest it. Like...

wait what's that mercy i think mercy was the one who claimed or supported epstein's claim that he blacked out getting water yeah true it was tartaglione that said it was oh you're right you're right you're right bed sheet around his neck yeah yeah good call good call but one thing that i think is really interesting is that they took him off of the hang-up watch because of improvements to his mood which would have only been i think eight days after being placed on it something like that so like

How did he go from ready to hang up to like, oh, this guy's great. I saw him smile today. Let's take him off watch. He's ready. He's totally fine. He's better easily. On August the 9th, Epstein was returned to his cell around 749 p.m. after meeting with lawyers. Guards Tova Noel and Michael Thomas were assigned to watch Epstein overnight.

Both guards were on overtime shifts. One of them was not normally assigned to guard prisoners, was on day five of overtime, and the other had just started a second shift on the same day. In other words, very weird that these two were in this room right now. Neither of them should have been.

They did not conduct required 30 minute rounds and appeared to be asleep at their desks. There were surveillance cameras in the general area. In the general area. I'm at my limit of Epstein's cell, but not inside the actual cell itself. This is normal in most U.S. prisons. Yeah, you're not supposed to film people, you know, to like using the bathroom or whatever.

two cameras in front of Epstein's cell also malfunctioned that night another camera had footage that was quote unusable like Charlie said nothing but the best I always hear like oh the fucking industrial prison complex in America there's so much money pouring through it or whatever where the fuck's the money going not to the cameras that's for sure come on it must be to the floor food I'm telling you

Those were great cameras. It's just, it's really unfortunate that Epstein smuggled an EMP device in his butthole at some point and blew them out. It's real lucky. It's real unfortunate that he was an alien that gave off like electromechanic waves. Okay. Side note.

What the fuck?

that the most high-profile arrests of the past decade would have, I don't know, a guy standing near him? Constantly watching him? Yeah, something. The guy who, according to them, just tried to hang up eight days ago, right? You think one dude, a reporter, for the love of God, someone would be in the hallway anyway.

The locked doors to Epstein's cell could only be opened remotely by an officer in the jail's control center. A second locked door was one that only correctional officers assigned had a key for. At 6.30 a.m. on August 10th, Epstein was discovered hung up in his cell with bedsheets around his neck.

An emergency alarm sounded and a survivor responded. Sorry, a supervisor responded. A supervisor. A professional survivor. And a supervisor. I'm imagining like Bear Grylls runs in the room. How can I help you?

An alarm sounded. Today's episode of Surviving in the Wild, we're going to show you how to survive a bed sheet attack. Epstein's like there tied up with the rope and he drops down from the ceiling. All right, I've seen this one before. Okay, an emergency alarm sounded and a supervisor responded.

As Noel went to open the cell door, guards cut Epstein down and tried to revive him before he was taken to the hospital. The first 911 call came at 637 a.m. with EMTs dispatched at 638 a.m. Confusing radio calls suggested a possible, quote, arrest instead of a medical emergency. A request was made for a defibrillator suggesting the jail did not have one. Oh my gosh. That's

Okay. EMTs were unable to revive Epstein at the jail, apparently attempting to resuscitate for over seven minutes. He was wheeled to the hospital where revival efforts began at 716 a.m. At 719 a.m., efforts ceased and his death was recorded at 736 a.m.

A 4chan post about his death came before the FDNY closed the case at 8:24 AM. I remember that 4chan post being a big deal. That someone, no one knows who, made an anonymous post detailing the details of his death before it was actually public knowledge. Applying someone close leaked the information out, but...

That's just a side note. So that's the actual events of his death. I think one thing to mention, it's not really brought up here, but it's kind of understood, I think, by everyone. But just to make it clear, there are some people who view this case from the outside and they're like, oh, well, what's wrong with Epstein dying? Like, don't we want him to die? Yes, we want to kill him, of course. But the reason he needs to stay alive is because he has so much information about

About not only other politicians and actors involved, but other people who are part of human trafficking rings. Like he wasn't getting these girls out of thin air, right? So the number of evil people his information could have brought down, which is likely the reason he was killed, could have gone to save so many lives. But all of that was squandered because his information died with him.

Yeah, this was probably the worst case scenario, honestly. He didn't serve any kind of real justice. And also he got to, well, the information, like you said, died with him, sadly. A very sad situation in that sense. Not sad that he's dead, that's obviously good. But sad that we don't get to put other people who have victimized these poor victims behind bars as well. Yeah. So, autopsy.

Chief Medical Examiner Barbara Sampson conducted a four-hour autopsy on August 11th, observed by Epstein's pathologist, Michael Baden. The medical examiner initially ruled the death a hang-up by hanging. There's the scientific terminology. Great work, Barbara.

Unofficial reports said Epstein had broken bones in his neck, more common in homicides rather than hangups. Epstein's lawyers challenged the conclusion and said they would investigate further. They said the evidence was more consistent with murder than a hangup. Baden said the neck fractures were more indicative of strangulation than self-death. He specifically cited Epstein's hyoid bone being broken in a way that suggested a strangulation.

Neurosurgeon and CNN medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta asserted Epstein could have easily broken his hyoid bone in a hanging because of the bone's weakening and loss of flexibility with age. The medical examiner stood by her conclusion, rejecting Baden's claims. Other experts disagreed on whether the bone breaks proved homicide or a hang-up.

In June of 2023, a Justice Department review confirmed that Epstein died by his own hand. The Justice Department is overseen by the U.S. Attorney General, who at the time was run by Bill Barr. That's so crazy. That's so crazy. The son of Donald Barr.

The son of Donald Barr, who originally helped Epstein start his career. Bill was operating under the Trump administration, a longtime associate of Epstein's. Yeah. So, I mean, just connections on connections on connections, really, when you think about it, how close knit this kind of, you know, group is at the end of the day, these powerful people. I think it's also important to note that even if, even if, let's say, Epstein did, you

commit unaliving like he did 100% like he wasn't murdered if that's the case the only people that benefit from this again are those ultra wealthy people and the fact that the cameras are down nobody was around and stuff maybe they still orchestrated the unaliving by just putting him in a position where he was able to do that well a bunch of people have said that that yeah if it was by his own hand it disproves it but also like he Epstein knew the score right

Right. You can get pressured or he can know that the best way out for this is for him to, you know, finish off the job. Right. Like it's still the same situation.

Yeah, 100%. It should have still been the responsibility to ensure that doesn't happen, but they gave him all the tools to do so by taking him off of watch, by the cameras being dog shit, by the guards not being present. When you think about how many failures on the chain here there are, it's like...

It can't be a coincidence. There's so many different elements. It just can't be. There's so many different circumstances here where even if one thing worked the way it was intended to, something could have prevented him from dying. He could still be alive today and giving information on very powerful people.

So Epstein's body was claimed by his brother Mark after the autopsy and his ashes were placed in an unmarked crypt in a Jewish cemetery next to his parents in Florida on September 5th. So that's where he's currently resting, let's say. Charlie, did you want to go over the aftermath? Yeah, I can do the aftermath.

So the prison guards on duty at the night of Epstein's death, Nova, Noel, and Michael Thomas admitted to lying on prison records to make it seem as though they had made the checks, but avoided prison time under a deal with prosecutors. And they left the Bureau of Prisons in April of 2022. So those were the two guards that were responsible for making sure to at least keep an eye on him. And they didn't. And they lied about it and faced no real repercussions. No one ever does. On June 20th of...

Nope, no one does in this case. On June 20th of 2022, Ghislaine Maxwell was sentenced to 20 years in jail. Absolute trash sentencing. Uh-huh. Horrible. Should have been life. And she faces a second criminal trial for perjury on two charges that she lied under oath during a civil suit in 2015 about Epstein's abuse of underage girls. Each count carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison.

In January of 2024, over 900 pages of previously sealed documents relating to Virginia's civil case against Maxwell were made public following litigation by the Miami Herald, and further documents were released on the 4th of January. So that's what I briefly referenced with like some of the names appearing in there, like George Lucas or Bill Clinton, whose name is in there a lot. Just, I see you highlighted some names here, so I'll go ahead and just mention these in some of the documents and logs.

So of some of the names mentioned, some of the most powerful are former President Donald J. Trump, former President Bill Clinton, disgraced actor Kevin Spacey, renowned lawyer and professor Alan Dershowitz, entertainer Chris Tucker, entrepreneur Bill Gates, Prince Andrew, politician Robert F. Kennedy Jr., violinist Itzhak Perlman, U.S. Senator John Glenn, and former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell.

There's obviously a lot more in the logs. Again, all of that's public. If anyone's curious, you can find them pretty easily. It's all in pencil and pen, so it's handwritten. Could be a little difficult to read, but you could probably find breakdowns if you struggle to read the handwriting. Also, one thing I want to mention. So a lot of people like they remember when the quote black book got leaked online.

And a bunch of people saw that and was like, oh, well, what do we care about new documents coming out? The black book was never verified. That just got leaked online. And sure, like it had validity to it, but there was no official statement giving it credibility. The significance about these recent things and Virginia's testimony coming out lately is it's the first time in a legal sense names have been tied to the events. Yeah.

But again, it's so difficult to know what to believe and what not to believe when we're dealing with the elite here, the very powerful individuals who could ostensibly control the narrative. They control the legal system. They really do. Right here, one of the names is a renowned lawyer. And we've got other people, like the people controlling the laws, the fucking government, the government officials. It's crazy the amount of implications here and how much, I mean, how many conspiracies can just come from this, you know?

yeah i mean it's not even conspiratorial no it's not anymore it's just legitimate yeah it is wild because like sure a lot of the names that get brought up aren't like always people who went to the island a lot of it's people that epstein was friends with or whatever who probably knew something was going down like who was it that said uh was it trump that was like oh we all knew epstein liked him young or something like that um i think that was a quote from trump like at a

like a party in the early 2000s or some shit like that. Or no, no, no, no, no. It was in the new documents. I don't know if Trump said it about Epstein, but in the new documents, it was also mentioned for Bill Clinton saying that he likes them young. Yeah. Yeah. Which one? So, so there's like, there's so much of that, you know, like the people knew me, even if they weren't expressly on the island or whatever. But what's so insane about this is I remember like,

being a kid and hearing stories about like oh yeah there's this multi-millionaire who like kidnaps kids or whatever it's like the stuff of fiction but then it's like oh no it happened you know like it was a thing that was happening and everyone knew about it or everyone in power knew about it and it just happened and we just kind of have to exist with that it's so sickening

It really is so fucking troubling. It is. And just to follow up on that, in 2002, Donald Trump said Jeffrey Epstein was a terrific guy and added it even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do and many of them on the younger side. That's what it was, yeah. And then for Bill Clinton, it was referenced in the most recent documents that he likes them young.

So there's two different things. This goes to say, this goes to show a level of bipartisanship that is unprecedented. Really, it's not an either side thing. It's every side. This is like a whole different level. Truly uniting the aisle, bringing us together. Yeah.

Well, it should also just go to show you that regardless of what side you're on, there's going to be evil people on both sides. And it's important to recognize that. Yep. 100%.

Yeah. So moving forward here, we're going to do another call back here. So Leslie Wexner has also been trying to distance himself as much as possible. But through the recent unsealed documents, it alleged that Virginia was pimped out to him multiple times. And then, of course, a lot of other people downplaying their relationship with Epstein, like Trump and then some tabloids saying that just Lane may have even taken some sex tapes as insurance.

There's also a man named John Mark Dugan, who was a former Palm Beach cop and claims to have tapes from Epstein's home. This was during the FBI raid in 2016. He apparently got the tapes, fled to Russia, and then showed the tapes to someone named Ron Chepsyuk of a young girl with an older man who he believes to be Prince Andrew. He sent the hard drive to a friend in Russia as insurance in case something happens to him.

but it's unclear if the tapes are real or if Dugan is a fraud seeking attention. So there's just so much like mystery and mystique around these kinds. Yeah. From like all of this stuff going around on the side. Yeah.

According to the Associated Press, Epstein's pilot Larry Visosky testified that he never saw evidence of sexual activity on the planes as he flew Epstein and his high-profile passengers aboard the two jets he piloted for roughly 1,000 trips between 1991 and 2019. Which is so much baloney. So baloney. Well, to be fair, I hope he was flying the fucking plane instead of, like, out there, like, yiddling with the grass.

Oh, no, no, but even still, he would see who's coming on the plane, like young girls getting on the plane and shit like that. He had his AirPods in, just not like, la, la, la, la, la, la. I was just flying a plane. I didn't know what the fuck was happening behind me. I just fly the plane. That's all I do. I stay in my lane. I don't pay attention. I close my eyes when it's not out the window, but at the front seat. Requesting clearance to land at Pedophile Island, please. Yeah, it all seemed very above board to me. I don't know why.

They all seem so nice, actually. What a great family. What a great family. Just, you know, old Jeff, Ghislaine, and their 74 teenage girls. Hey, don't forget Matt Groening. He's usually there, too. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's their uncle. I forgot about that. Old wacky uncle Matt Groening. Oh, man.

Do you want to move into the conspiracy side of things now about like the death and all that? Or do you want to cover? Do you mind if we do the quotes real quick? Yeah, I can take the quotes. I'll read them. All right. So these are quotes again. These are both. These are cited from the spider book again. So talk of Trump brought back agreeable memories to the financier and he began telling mercy stories. So this is a story that Epstein told to his cellmate.

yeah one time we're flying in my private plane and i was with this french girl epstein said according to mercy's account and trump said to me why don't we land in atlantic city and i can show your friend my casino i told trump i'm not landing in atlantic city all you have is white trash down there the girl i was with because she was french asked me what does white trash mean donald trump told her that would be me without money

It's just like that line. I'm not giving credit to the joke over it. It's just... It is the absurdity of this conversation taking place. You know what it is? It's the absurdity of the self-awareness there as well.

Like, they know, they know! Ugh, okay, continue it. "Epstein volunteered how Clennon's days as a Lothario were a thing of the past." Uh, what is a Lothario? Like a really good lovemaker, or like a corn dog, basically. I haven't heard that word before, but alright, new vocabulary. "Were a thing of the past." He told me he can't do anything like that now because he's had a couple of heart surgeries.

What the heck? What the heck? Bro, it's like that guy on To Catch a Predator who said that he has erectile dysfunction so he couldn't have done it. That's what feels like. Only it's a president of the United States. Former president. Oh, excuse me. Yeah.

But also, these go to show just how connected he was with very powerful people. He's having very private conversations with Clinton and Trump about their sex lives and sex and women in general and stuff like that. So they were fucking on that plane. Not Epstein and Clinton and not Epstein and Trump. Yeah, I agree with Charlie that there was some tomfoolery going on around this time. That pilot who said that, I never saw anything, is like... You remember when...

What's that drug... The drug cartel guy. I'm losing his name right now. El Chapo. When he got arrested, when his wife got arrested and she said that she had no knowledge he was selling drugs or into drugs. That's what that pilot is. A true ride or die. I think it's just super obvious. If he said that he knew that was going on there, he'd be fucked. He has to say he didn't see anything. True, yeah. Self-serving more so than...

loyalty cool so epstein's 577 million in assets will not pass from his estate into his private trust until all creditors claims have been satisfied in a probate court the worth of epstein's estate will only be taxed after all claims against the estate have been settled most recently a lawyer for epstein's estate stated that the money obtained from the sale of his islands would be used to settle a number of lawsuits which i imagine there are plenty of

That's at least something good. These, these, uh, individuals, uh, it'll never take away what happened, obviously, but at least, at least there is something fitting. There is something fitting about his empire dissolving and the pieces of it going to the people he hurt, you know, poetically it does make me feel a bit better. Obviously it doesn't, you know, equal what happened to them, but it is a nice touch. Yeah. All right. So now we move on to the next, the final, the final element of this whole, uh,

episode which is we're going to talk about some of the popular theories conspiracies and what we might not ever know going forward so if you guys want to take this one as well

I'll take the second one because that's, you know, I'll just start. This is like the main conspiracy that I believe in. I'm not really a conspiratorial guy. I like to research them mainly just out of fascination. And some of them are pretty entertaining, like wacky conspiracies, like secret space program and all that. But this is a conspiracy that I legitimately buy into because the official story is so unbelievable. So I truly believe that he was murdered.

Epstein being as well connected as he is to some of the most powerful people in the world and all of the dirt he would have on so many people and organizations, it'd be so dangerous to let him actually have a chance to squeal. So I really believe that his death was orchestrated by some powerful group or maybe even a single powerful person. I think the likelihood that he hung up on his own is unfathomable with all of the clumsiness

coincidences that would have had to transpire. I think the official story is more conspiratorial than like the actual conspiracy. Yeah. I agree. The only people that benefited the most from this are the powerful people. And in that case, they had a vested interest in making sure that he doesn't go to court. So there is really a limitless amount of people with power who are fully capable of making this kind of thing happen that were in a position to do it, you know? So yeah,

And they're obviously, they're in this situation in the first place. They're obviously not moral, upstanding people. What's one more murder potential? Well, what's one murder going to be in the grand scheme of things, really? I mean, also look at people like the Clintons who have like a kill sheet in the hundreds already, right? Like what's one more guy who has all this information?

Yeah. And it wouldn't even be that hard to orchestrate since he was in such a shittily kept prison. So it would have been very simple for them, I imagine. They got him off of on a live watch within like a week, basically, without any real reason why. Like, it's just, it's all ridiculous. Think about it. Who's one of the, I mean, I'm not accusing him of doing this, but.

I want to be very forthright of that. I'm not accusing him of doing this. But Donald Trump was head of the country at the time with a lot of connections. Who controls the prisons? It's the fucking government. So, like, come on. There's so many. And there's obviously a whole bunch of other politicians and powerful people in Epstein's orbit that would have benefited from this who also are able to control the government and are able to control the prisons to some degree. Yeah.

Like, there's just so much... Like you said, him killing himself, him unaliving himself, or any other excuse, is so more conspiratorial to me than him being taken out of the equation. To accept that, you have to just accept so many random chances with no real substantiated evidence. Like, well, why weren't the cameras working? Well, they just weren't. Well, why is this footage unusable? It just isn't. Why weren't the guards there? Well, they were sleeping.

why didn't you have anyone else posted there? Didn't want to like, it's just like, Oh, okay. Take this at face value and don't ask any questions. Like you have to really turn your brain off to accept that. Yeah. And I just, it doesn't make sense. Like the only reasonable explanation is that he was murdered. There was also, if I recall, right. I can't remember how substantiated this claim was, but that guy, it's hard to tag Leon. The one who said that, uh,

uh he tried to do it himself or whatever uh tried to say it was a hang-up was like found multiple times to have a cell phone in his possession like they kept finding like and nearby like one of the guards was like taking weird calls during shifts stuff like that like there's so many weird things that happened around the actual like events leading up to his death that the official narrative of well you know that just happens sometimes is insane yeah

You guys are giving them too much credit. Remember, when asked, they said no. They just said, nope, no comment. Yeah, they didn't even comment on it. They didn't even explain. They were just like, do you have anything to say about this with the allegations? Nope. I think it speaks for itself. That's what's so frustrating. They don't even try to make... Because what are you going to do about it, right? They don't need to have a good cover story. Because they don't need to. They know they don't need to come up with anything. Yeah, they got away with it. Yeah. They have successfully got away with it. I think if you polled the country, or the world for that matter,

I would imagine close to 90% of people would all agree that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered.

And what? And then what? Nothing. We can't do anything about it, even though most of the world knows that it's very unlikely that it was the result of a hang-up. It's absurd. So of course they don't need to. The guy can just decline. Like Jackson said, I think it speaks for itself. Pretty open and shut on that case. I'm just imagining the guy with a smug look on his face as well. You know, just the most arrogant look. Yeah, it speaks for itself. That's it.

Yeah, so that's I think the most likely case. Also on Spotify, on our Spotify platform or audio platforms, I think it's just Spotify. I'm going to put up a poll.

I've been putting up polls for each of our episodes with questions based around the episode's theme and premise. This week's one, the poll's going to be, did he unalive himself or was he murdered? And I want everyone listening on audio platforms to vote and we'll see what the percentage comes out of. I'm very interested in knowing. Jeez, I wonder which way our listeners will lean. Yeah.

I've never actually met anyone or read from anywhere someone saying that Jeffrey Epstein unaligned himself. I have not met a real person outside of a Twitter bot that has ever said that. Yeah, exactly. Like, I just I don't think a real person exists that thinks that it wasn't a murder. Agreed. So some other conspiracies. Oh, can I can I read the one about the island? This is one of my favorite theories. Yeah, go for it. So anyway,

Anyway, there's another conspiracy theory that his island was a government honeypot for Israel and U.S. intelligence. Of course, it says the theory is that Epstein, along with either the Israel, American or both governments, was tasked with luring high profile guests. He would entice them with underage girls, secretly record the encounter and use it as blackmail to coerce anyone into doing anything.

Recalling what Alexander Acosta said about Epstein being above his pay grade, did Epstein's 2008 plea include plans for a CIA or FBI honeypot scheme? So this one actually...

It does have some ground into it, especially when undocumented reports reveal what the CIA was doing back in the 60s and 80s and stuff. There's a ton of examples of them using sexual coercion or trying to get some high-profile political figure to sleep with a prostitute. They even tried that with – they didn't try the prostitute directly.

But they tried that with Martin Luther King. They were, they tapped his hotel room and recorded audio of him having sex with his wife and then leaked it as him having sex with a prostitute. Like they, they do, they do stuff like that all the time. Right? So it does make sense that maybe they would have someone who would coerce important figures into having these sexual encounters and then using it as blackmail. So, um,

Maybe they would try that with Epstein, perhaps he certainly be a client for it. And given what all the politicians said around him of, oh, I think this guy, he's above my pay grade or I was told to back off the case. Maybe there is something there. And the reason Israel gets mentioned is because he had connections to Mossad, as well as, like I mentioned earlier, Gids Lane's father was a Mossad agent. Yeah.

So he definitely knew people over there, and I imagine that their secret service operates much the same way ours does. Or not secret service, their intelligence networks operate the same way ours does. So, yeah, maybe there is some truth to that. I 100% believe it's believable to me, and it also doesn't disprove any other theories like the murder and stuff like that. It's just more supplemental in nature. Yeah.

and that would explain how he got by with so much for a while yeah exactly how he was able to gain his power to that degree yeah that explains away some of that but i feel like if that was the purpose of it i don't think they would have used epstein for it he's way too public of a figure like i really don't think they would have even bothered with that because he'd be a powder keg like he knew too many people he was too in the limelight for like

He was a registered sex offender. Like, I don't think they would have used him to do something like that. It would have been too dangerous because, again, he did get eventually caught. Yeah. I feel like they would have chosen someone that no one's ever heard of. Yeah, they would more than likely use just a human trafficker who other people aren't aware of. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, but we're forgetting that Epstein had a lot of connections. That human trafficker probably doesn't have connections to Donald Trump and people like that. That is true. Yeah, but I don't think

I don't know. I feel like if it was a honeypot from them, whatever trafficker they would use, they would just set up the connection somehow. Yeah, like, okay, Donald Trump, I'm setting you up with a meeting with this Jim. Jim from Honduras. Think of it this way. Go ahead, go ahead. No, no, no, you go. Think of it this way. It's not saying that the entire Epstein operation was...

him on behalf of the government maybe he was already doing it and then the government picks him up and they're like look you want to keep doing what you're doing just pass some information our way and we'll turn a blind eye well that's that's the point of that's the point there about uh the honeypot fbi scheme being introduced as part of the plea deal oh i see the 2008 plea deal like they they find oh they see that didn't exist before yeah they see that and they're like okay we can actually utilize this yeah yeah

In a controlled manner, yeah. Potentially. Yeah. So, I don't know. I don't trust the fucking CIA or FBI or anything like that. So, I'm completely... No, definitely not. Completely, like...

It's believable to me, to some degree. The other theory is, more theories, is the FBI is protecting known associates by destroying evidence. There's a theory that they are protecting people of interest or well-connected people who could be hurt by their connection to Epstein getting out. So there's a lot of pictures of, like, in Epstein's house, the Palm Key... Is it the Palm Keys? The Florida residence. Palm Beach.

Palm Beach, Florida residents of like drawers full of like DVDs and stuff which we can only assume is some of the worst shit possible and it's resulted in a lot of weird dudes on Reddit writing release the tapes which when you think about it it's just ass-punched pornography Maybe don't release them maybe have like one guy check those and then we can prosecute half of that

Not the best idea. Is the name of the picture you have there underneath it the name that's written on the tape? No, I think it's just the file name. Okay, so the file name for this image is Teenage Homemade Porn Edit Final. So...

Is that what someone named this image of the tapes in his drawer or is that what like the original because that's pretty conclusive if that's written on top of the tapes like yeah that would be pretty strong evidence it's like my naming conventions for my files it's like final and then underscore final two like he went back to the edit

I think it's, so I think that it's just the movie file because this is a screen grab from a video of the FBI, uh, uh, like touring his house. So I think that's just the, that's what someone labeled it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not 100% sure. And then we come to our final theory, which is obviously I think the most outlandish theory, but it is a theory that people have put out there previously that I've seen. And that is Epstein is still alive. Yeah.

What do you guys think of that? There's no proof or anything. Yeah, I believe it. Close case. That's just, that's the classic. It's anyone who dies. It's like, no, they didn't actually die. You're stupid if you think he died. Yeah. Yeah. The reason the people who actually believe that theory, I've heard them posit. Well, because he was an agent like, you know, Mossad or the CIA or whatever wouldn't have let him die. But yes, they absolutely would have. They are not. I mean, they wouldn't want him dead.

Yeah. They would have wanted him dead at that point. Why would they keep him alive with his secrets out there? His cover is completely blown. You're never using this guy as an agent again. Yeah. Yeah. Kill him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just funny. Like, even in a story where there's so many actually believable conspiracies that aren't even like actual conspiracies, really, when you think about it, because they're so believable and probably true. Yeah.

You still have conspiracy theorists come out and like take the most fucking wild stance possible. Like they're not content with an actual conspiracy. That's my game. That's such a good point. This is like the one case where the conspiracies are like the real story. And then there's still added on top of that. Wait, it's so fucking dumb.

It's so fucking dumb. All right. So, yeah, I mean, I think we're all on the same page, though, in terms of what we believe the true theory to be in that he was murdered. We might differ a little bit individually on whether or not we think it was a government honeypot, if that was incorporated to some degree. Personally, I think it's likely, but there's way less probably evidence for that than the

the other supplemental stuff included in the like him being murdered i think that's the most believable situation here just in general like i think he was murdered and again even if it wasn't an actual even if there wasn't like you know agent 47 in the jail cell with him strangling him or whatever they still put him in a position again where he was able to commit suicide which is what i classify as you know murder like they gave him the ability to do it so i think they wanted him dead you know

It doesn't necessarily have to be them in the jail cell as well, even though that's entirely possible as well. Yeah. Yeah. I think we're all on the same page in agreement. Yeah. I think we're all in agreement and also in agreement that this story is incredibly depressing and highlights the worst parts about our society. And there's really nothing we could do about it. Um, unless you really want to also, uh, hats off to the Miami Herald. I forgot that they were the ones that really spearheaded everything without the Miami Herald. This would have never happened.

Yeah, this would have been under the rug forever. And when you really think about what we're dealing with here, how much power and how much danger is involved, I mean, they're able to kill people. I also want to mention that you took a lot of risk. In just a couple of Google searches I did while we were talking about it, I'm sure that there were more people involved, but it seems like the person who spearheaded that article was a reporter named Julie Brown. And it said over the course of a year,

that the whole thing about it began in july like the writing of it she took all this time to get evidence together and then release the perversion of justice and then that came out in tandem with acosta so even though we like critiqued the kind of the journalists and systems for allowing this to go unspoken for so long there were people trying to work on it behind the scenes who use the opportunity to get the story out there so there is a lot of good people underlining this whole thing so yeah credit to them for uh

finally kicking, doing the kickoff for this whole event. It's a shame that we couldn't, you know, nail everyone with it, but we got one of them. So I think it's important. I think it's served an important role in just showing the public, uh, you know, these people in power, uh, likely very systemically evil. Like, I think it's very important that it's blown the lid open at least so that, I mean, it really, we can't do anything about it. We can't. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah.

No, sorry. I was just looking up the Miami Herald. They were also responsible working in collaboration with the International Consortium of Investigated Journalists to blow the lid off the Panama Papers. Oh, nice. I've heard that before. Yeah, they were one of the people who did that. Miami Herald goes hard. I had no idea. Yeah, wait, they really go hard. If you guys were getting a little off tangent, well, I'm getting off tangent, but if you guys remember, the lead journalist for the Panama Papers was actually killed in a car bomb. Yeah.

So like they really take risks. They did the Jeffrey Epstein case. They did the Panama Papers. Holy shit. We need more of it, but I can totally understand why people are apprehensive about it when it comes to being a victim of a car bomb and stuff like that. Like there is genuine risk involved here. You're dealing with the most powerful people alive. Yeah. So if there's a, I don't know if there's a podcast bomb that goes off and we die, we

uh these are all these are all fake legend i don't know what i'm talking about what's a massage i i don't know anyway uh you should go vote uh because that's what really that's what really matters and also support the current thing yep that's my take uh

Now, Charlie, Charlie's the one who brought all this information to us. This is Jackson from Australia. Charlie, are you ever going to address your name being in the leaks of the black book? Are you going to address the moist critical log I saw in there? I think it's time to fess up.

That could be a different episode where we all talk about why the Epstein files have Jackson, Isaiah, and everyone on board. Look, I heard that there was putt-putt on the island, and then I was really upset when it wasn't there, so I got a boat back, okay? That's it. That's all I saw.

I did think, hold on, that the girl handing out the golf balls was suspiciously short, but other than that, I didn't see a thing. You need to be short for a good mini-golf frame. You need to be closer to the ground. See, that's what I was thinking, but then the whole reports came out that it's the pedophile island, and it's a whole deal. Yeah, who could have known?

That's my defense, but yeah, you should go vote. That'll make it better. Yeah, that'll fix things. That'll fix it. Vote harder. I want to know how this kind of shit starts. It has to be ingrained in the elite at some level. How do you introduce a new elite person into that kind of situation? You're like, hey, we fuck kids. That's our whole thing. I've thought about this before.

And I think what it is, you know how there's like, with anything we do, we're all fellas, right? The boys. And like, we remember being young and dumb and wanting to get in, like doing stuff to kind of get in trouble, like drinking where you're supposed to. There was kind of a thrill about the taboo of it, right? Yeah.

of pushing the limit, going where you're not. And when you have billions of dollars and you're basically immune to the law, you have to keep scaling that up, right? Like if you want the thrill of doing something you're not supposed to, then the thing you're not supposed to do has to get worse and worse. I think it's ultimately just a hedonism. I think it's people just wanting to satisfy some base primal instinct that they don't know how else to.

And they all have kind of functioned. Because you hear these stories really begin like in Hollywood, like back in the 50s and 60s of young girls coming to drug parties and these big group encounters and stuff like that. And it kind of trickled its way into politics and media from there. But it all starts with like...

High profile people wanting to push the edge or push the envelope, go as far as they can. And there's really not another way to do that unless pure depravity like this. I think it's just people who have no moral compass or values doing something to get their rocks off. And surrounded by people who are also similar and are able to like positively affirm that kind of stuff and make it happen.

Yeah, I know. It's just like, I get that angle. It's just so weird to me. Like imagining like a newly rich, powerful person, like being introduced into that circle. And then like, there's a 13 year old girl on the flight giving Matt Groening a massage. It's like, it's crazy. Like that's your first, like that's how you're introduced to the whole scene. It's crazy. I just don't know how they, how they get to that point. But I get that like once they are there, it's like the hedonism takes over.

Yeah, yeah, I think so. All right, I think we've done a fairly decent and in-depth dive into Epstein's entire life without going into too many of the unnecessary details. But do you guys have anything additional to add? Nothing on my end that I can think of that we didn't cover. I think we did a pretty good job. Isaiah, did you have anything? Yeah, I'm mad again.

I forgot about all this and I'm upset. I'm glad we were able to look at it. I'm glad we were able to do that for the audience. Hopefully you all enjoyed it. Thank you for watching. But I remember the reason I quit looking at this is because it made me very nihilistic about everything and it's coming on again. So I'm going to go make a sandwich and sit outside and think about how much I like putt-putt golf. Wait, do you actually...

I mean, I do actually like putt-putt. I was not actually at Pedophile Island, but I do actually like putt-putt golf. The way you said that, Jackson, it was like a gotcha or something. Yeah, he was like, wait a minute, you? You're the putt-putt golf guy? Charlie, you know this about me. I love mini-golf. I love mini-golf, too. Oh, yeah, no, Jackson is a huge fan of mini-golf. I do real golfing. In high school, I played golf on a team and all that, so...

Like, I love putt-putt golf because it's just fun. It's good to play with friends. It's great. You'll come here and we'll go putt-putt golfing sometime and it won't be at Pedophile Island. No. That sounds good. I think when I last came to America, we went to mini golf. Where was that? Like in... It was near Universal, wasn't it? Yes, it was Universal because it was that alien one. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So next time I'm over, I say we should hit up Moody Golf. I would love that. It's way different over... It's way more high-budget over there than over here. It's crazy. It's like a whole different game. Well, around Orlando, yeah. I've also been to putt-putt courses that's like some guy's yard with skates instead of a barrier. It's like...

It's a nine hole course, but you have to play the same four holes twice and then one three times. You have to do one blindfolded.

Yeah. All right. But anyway, that's going to do it for this episode of the Red Thread. It's been a long one, two and a half hours. Thank you very much for joining us for this one. I'm very sorry that it's like, like Isaiah said, it's just a very disappointing situation all around. Very. It does lead to a lot of nihilism. Like this is the, this is the world we live in and we can't do anything about it. It sucks.

I think it's very, it's still important to have these kinds of conversations and dive into the details and make everyone as aware of it as possible. So I hope we've done a pretty good job at doing that and giving you guys all the information that you may have missed over the duration of this situation unfolding. So yeah, I'm very interested in hearing comments, feedback. And like I said, the Spotify has a poll, so you can head over to the Spotify website.

and leave your input on what you think happened and we'd appreciate seeing that as well as you appreciate you going over to the Spotify in general and just checking that out we really appreciate it

In general, we really appreciate you guys listening to the Red Thread. It really means so much to all of us. The support has been overwhelmingly positive and just fantastic. I love doing this show. It's a lot of fun to dive into cases and see some of the more interesting details emerge. And I hope that comes across to everyone in the audience. Other than that, just, yeah, thank you. Do you guys have anything final to say? No, thanks, everybody.

Thank you all so much for watching It Means the World. I hope that you enjoyed it. Thank you again so much to my co-hosts for being here. I really do enjoy doing the show. Even when it makes me sad and unhappy, I'm still so happy to be here. Would it be anywhere else? So thank you all for it. It means a lot. Thank you. We still can have some fun. We can still have fun. Even with Pedophile Island, we can have some fun. But not in the way most people do. Don't say it like that. Not

Not like that. For the mini golf. We're here for the mini golf. All right, guys. Thank you very much for listening. We'll see you next time on the Red Spread. Bye, everybody. Bye.