Hot Takes Roundtable: Peptides, Body Dysmorphia, Gut Health & Candida, Suppositories & Injectables, Toxicity in the Fitness Community, Carbophobia, Workout Optimization Tips, Olive Oil, & more with Max Lugavere and Crosby Tailor.
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The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Mari has grown her to fitness and nutrition brand. Co-founder of Bloom Nutrition. Forbes 30 under 30 list. A successful entrepreneur. Someone who has lost 90 pounds. Today's guest is Mari Llewellyn. Mari Llewellyn. My friend Mari. Welcome to the pursuit of wellness.

Guys, welcome back to the Pursuit of Wellness podcast. Today we have our first ever round table episode. I have two guests with me and friends of mine who I consider to be super on the pulse when it comes to health and wellness, Max Lugavere and Crosby Taylor. We are going to cover a number of interesting topics today. But first, do you guys mind introducing yourselves? Tell us who you are and your involvement in the health industry.

- Sure, I guess I'll go first. My name is Max Lugavere. I'm a health and science journalist. I am an author. I've written a number of books, "Genius Foods," "The Genius Life," "Genius Kitchen." I host a podcast called "The Genius Life," and I do a lot of education and advocacy around nutrition, holistic health, as it pertains to lengthening collectively our health spans and our lifespans. - Amazing.

That's a really, really good intro. I don't know if I can follow that. I'm Crosby Taylor. My health journey started about 10 years ago. I had a lot of different gut issues, so embarking into the health field for me was all about fixing my gut and healing my health in that kind of way. So

That kind of brought me into places where I was a Chinese herbalist. I got certified as a junior herbalist. I started personal training and have a background and consider myself a fitness expert. And I also then started making foods that wouldn't be inflammatory and hurt my stomach. So that turned into my segue to making healthy desserts. So I have a dessert company, founded a company called Crosby's Baking Co. We make gluten grain, refined sugar-free desserts.

And we also exclude things like almond flour and seed oils, which I think can be inflammatory, definitely eaten in excess. And now it's just kind of for me all about spreading the word for health and wellness through my Instagram channel and with

within my business. Amazing. And how do you guys know each other? Actually, it's kind of a funny story. We met when, as I mentioned, I've been a journalist my entire professional career. And about 10 years ago, I transitioned to focus exclusively on health science. And around that time, I had yet to publish any of my books or build the platform that I have now. And I was essentially hired to cover a

an event, a big sort of like health and wellness biohacking event for Yahoo, which, you know, yahoo.com, big sort of news portal.

I was actually one of the people that I was tasked to interview was Crosby. And so I was like literally there. Yahoo Health, right? Yeah, it was Yahoo Health. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like interviewing him about his desserts, which at the time, I mean, I think now we take for granted the fact that you can find sugar-free, quote unquote keto, better for you desserts fairly commonly. I mean, here in LA, they're super easy to find. But at the time he, I mean, Crosby is definitely very much a pioneer in that space. He was making some of the best desserts

blondies, brownies, cookies that you'd ever have. You would never be able to tell that they were sugar-free and grain-free, which is sort of like a hallmark of, you know, staple of like his bakery products. And I thought Max was pretty famous at the time. So I was like, wow, this is cool. Max is pretty famous. He's a lot more famous now. But even then, that was like...

Eight years ago? It was at the Bulletproof conference. The first ever Bulletproof conference, I think. Yeah, in Pasadena. In Pasadena, yeah. You were speaking, right? I was speaking because I was the first ambassador for Dave Asprey for Bulletproof. Like before it was a massive brand, he had like...

Butter coffee that was it before the supplements and everything he was only using you know the butter and the MCT oil and he had his coffee and I like latched onto it pretty quick and I really loved it and so we started chatting on Instagram when things weren't as big and Dave wasn't you know massive and

I became like this first ambassador of... As an influencer? It was like before influencers. We were called ambassadors then. I just got free stuff. I didn't get paid to like talk about Bulletproof. You at that point though had already had a following. Yeah, I had a decent following. I had friends that were in the Vine space. When Vine was big, I'd get desserts to these people.

Your audience is probably going to be like, what's Vine? I know, but they are my age, so I think they'll remember. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. Yeah, the Gen Z would be like, huh? Like, what is... Well, TikTok's like the new Vine. It is the new Vine, yeah. But yeah, so then it turned into kind of a big friendship after that. I think we ran into each other at Air One. Yeah. Like a week later. Classic. Yeah. He was like, yo, conference. Yeah.

Men are so funny. Like, imagine if girls made friends that way. So I want to talk about a number of topics because I feel like whenever I see you guys, we're all trying something new. We're on a new health wave. We found something new. So let's dive in. I want to start with exercise. So I talk about nutrition a lot, but I also get tons of questions about exercise. So I've run into both of you at Gold's gym before, the Mecca. Oh, yeah. You get after it there. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Every day. Love it. 6 a.m. Full body training, not just lower body. That's why I never see you because you're an afternoon guy. Yeah, you're early morning. Yeah, yeah. 6 a.m. You and Fiona are in there at crack of dawn. Oh, yeah. Crack of ass, as I say. Yeah.

So what are your current workout routines? Yeah, I've always been really into weightlifting. And I think part of it has to do with the fact that I've never been particularly strong or I've never been an athlete. I just really like the competition that I get to have with myself in the gym. And it's also a time for me to, it's meditative for me in the sense that I have to be really present when you're lifting weights. I mean, on a treadmill, walking or running, you can kind of

zone out a little bit but if you're not there present with the weight I guess it's a form of meditation and I genuinely really enjoy it and so my approach I think for a long time has been essentially like a bodybuilding approach I don't really like low repetition lifts I have a degree of aversion to it I definitely dip into those lower rep ranges occasionally which is thought to be better for for building strength but I tend to have a more bodybuilding style routine and I've

I've gotten really focused lately. There's a lot of really good and interesting research now coming out from the field of exercise science. So I feel like I've been in a space where I've really dialed in my workouts as of late. A few of the things that I've been really leaning into is one, longer rest periods. I think a lot of people have this idea that your rest periods should be really short, but actually that kind of turns your workouts into more, and I think there's a time and place for it, but

It turns your workouts into a more cardio style effort. And for you to really reap the most benefit from a strength and hypertrophy perspective, there is benefit to actually like having a longer rest period. So that's been something that I've been toying with. And then also there's a lot of research now and a lot of people talking, you know, specifically about tension under load. So like really accentuating the

The eccentric portion of the lift. So when your muscle is at its most lengthened, seems to be where you get a lot of like bang for your buck in terms of like a hypertrophy effect. Does that mean on the way down? Muscle growth.

Yeah, it means on the way down. If you think about doing a curl when your arm is at full extension or when you're doing a squat when your butt is like almost to the floor because that's when your glute is at its most lengthened state. And so there seems to be a benefit to kind of pausing there and really feeling into that portion of the lift as opposed to counterintuitively when the muscle is more contracted.

and it's shortened state. So I've been really focusing on those portions of my lifts and I've seen some pretty epic progress.

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Are you doing cardio separately then? Yeah, but I'm not a big cardio. I do a lot of walking. Walking is by far my favorite form of cardio. And then I'll do some light running, which I think is zone two. So it's like a jog just faster than a brisk walk.

for me is very sustainable, but I don't do any, I don't do a lot of cardio beyond that. Do you have a goal of how many steps you want to get each day?

I mean, I know there's debate about the ideal number. I think 10,000 has been recognized as an arbitrary goal. But just to throw some data at it, there was a meta-analysis that came out recently that found that for younger people, anywhere between 7,000 and 10,000 steps a day is generally in that range of optimal. And I personally, I know that I feel way better. I just subjectively...

And of one, I feel great when I'm able to walk more. I was in London recently. We were talking about this when you were on my show. So shredded there? So shredded. Crosby and I were talking about this last night. When you're in New York, cities where you can like just take off on foot. The best. It's the best. You, I mean, you have so much wider of a buffer for what you can eat basically. And you just end up shredded. Off.

After every meal, I think going on walks for digestion is incredible. It's amazing for blood sugar balance, all that. It's so good. That's why people in New York and London and these bigger cities that you have to walk. I love it. They stay lean regardless of their extracurricular activities. Exactly. They're at dinner by 9, 10. Yeah, which is crazy. But they've been walking all day. So it's not affecting them as much as somebody that's sedentary in Los Angeles for the whole day and then they eat at 10. LA is tough, definitely.

That's the worst part of LA in my view. Yeah, the fact that it's so difficult to walk you have to be so intentional I just end up going in loops around my neighborhood. Yeah, okay Crosby. Yeah, so I'm kind of the opposite of Max in terms of my background. I played sports my whole life I was a football player in college. We did very strenuous workouts and exercises like all day long We're doing 6 a.m. Lift and then we got to come back for like a three-hour practice at the end of the day and

cardio in the morning sometimes, but four or five in the morning, we're running, you know, two, three miles. So I grew up putting a lot of like basically damage on my body in my early stages. And it turned into some like slightly chronic, uh,

festering injuries that I had that weren't like, oh, I can't do anything, but it was always something like, oh, it's just a little bit weaker or like my psoas is, I don't know if you're familiar with the psoas muscle, but it operates in a way to where like it affects a lot of other muscles. And when that is,

Correct and like tight it's tough to really do anything like I haven't done core workouts for years because instead of planks just because That muscle it responds a lot differently like right away like it'll create inflammation if I'm doing too much core stuff

Or like too heavy of like squatting and like any of those kind of ranges of motion can definitely affect the psoas muscle. So as I got older, I started to turn to like low impact approaches to working out. I even, it's hilarious, but I even got contracted to do a low impact workout DVD in London. Wow. Do you remember that when that came out? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. I might even have it. You have it for sure. Wait, how old are both of you guys, by the way? I'm 41. I'm 38. I'm 38.

Guys, this is crazy. I would have thought you guys were like late 20s, early 30s. So we should listen to these people is what I'm saying. I think a lot of that's just like neither of us really drink alcohol. Oh, we're going to get into that for sure. That's a huge one for aging, I think. Yeah, I mean, I definitely did drink a lot earlier on in life. You did?

I probably stopped my college years like was like the worst but ever since I was probably 25 years old I don't really yeah I used to go crazy and I kind of have like a guilt around it so now I'm really careful with when I drink yeah but anyway continue so now my approach is like Max more of a bodybuilding approach but in isolation form too so that I'm not like

kind of bringing in the psoas to a lot of different lifts. So I have like certain splits, like bodybuilding splits, but for the most part... Can you tell us what they are? Because I know people are going to ask.

My splits are chest and arms, back and shoulders, and then legs. So you are training legs? Oh yeah. Yeah, major glute workouts. Don't skip leg day. I think a lot of men skip leg day. Do you skip leg day, Mac? Never, no. I think less and less now though. They're realizing how important. Yeah, well there's so many studies talking about how leg workouts are so important for like growth hormone activity and boost, you know, so men want that too. They're not like just building their upper body. And how many days a week are you both weight training?

I weight train probably five days a week. I love it. I mean, I really love it. And just to add to the leg day thing, I think for me, the turning point when I really started to enjoy leg day was...

understanding that we're all biomechanically different. And I think one of the problems that you get with the fitness community, particularly online, is, you know, people see these really jacked people on social media now doing all kinds of crazy lifts with a focus generally around squatting and deadlifting.

and perpetuating this idea, whether they're doing it wittingly or not, that you've got to squat and deadlift to get the body of your dreams, so to speak. But everybody's different, and I've never been able to deadlift properly, even under the watchful eye of people who really know what they're doing. I'm in pain days afterwards. Whether or not it hurts in the moment, I have chronic low back issues. So for me, it was really about self-experimentation

And finding the workouts like that work best for me. And after finding them, I really enjoy doing it. So for one, like the Bulgarian split squat is something that doesn't irritate my back at all.

Great lift. And it feels great. Those are gnarly though. Fantastic lift. They're gnarly, but I don't do back squats. I don't deadlift. That's my favorite glute workout for sure. And great for women too. Amazing. Because 95% of my audience is women, so I know they're going to have questions. I love the Bulgarian split squat. So good. But I agree 100% Max. I think online, especially for women, a lot of the girls in the fitness industry are short.

And if you come in as a taller girl, it can be confusing, I think, because they just grow muscle in a different way. Of course. Like the squat is completely different. I personally love a hip thrust. I think those are great. And I love lunging. But everyone's different. Everyone's different. Yeah. Yeah. The body types, you know, you're probably more of at this point now, you're probably more of an ectomorph. What does that mean? It means that you probably stay leaner now and longer. You're tall.

your food's going to be differently for your gains as well. When it comes to like mesomorphs that you're kind of talking about that are a little bit more compact, they're going to be the type of, you know, person that works out that can grow muscle quickly.

They kind of have to watch out for more of like the fat gain. Mmm. So because they if they overeat certain things But there's a lot tons of guides out there now A lot of people are like putting those three things together endomorph ectomorph mesomorph as they're like parameters for hey guys Come train with me. Like these are the three body types like what do you fall under and then here's your training regimen? Here's your dietary regimen for this. Here's how you could supplement and

which it works in a lot of ways, but I don't think it's end all be all. And a lot of the time too, like a lot of these people are not really preaching the greatest New

nutrition when it comes to the level that we would like to be eating when it comes to like organic or wild or this, it's just like macros. Right. Which is what I love about podcasts. I think it's a great opportunity to speak with experts and have people wherever they are with whatever their knowledge level, be able to tune in and learn more. With nutrition, I want to talk about your pre and post workout rituals. What are we eating? What supplements are we taking? Max, do you want to start? Yeah.

Yeah, I definitely have leaned into the pre-workout and even intra-workout carbohydrates as of late. I think when I first started, there was a period where I was very much...

Much more of a carbophobe. Huge carbophobe. I wouldn't say huge. I just... I was too at some point. I was like, when the bulletproof thing was happening, I was like very keto at times. I'm a carbophobe. Yeah. Eating lots of vegetables and lots of fats. I'm not afraid of them. I'm just like... I was wrecked. I prefer to not. Yeah. At the moment. I think people need to know that carbs don't necessarily make you fat. Carbs are not inherently fattening. And not only that...

but they can be an incredibly powerful tool to use to have better workouts. The better your workouts are, the more muscle, the more you're going to divert any excess of calories into processes that promote muscle growth. And so I love carbohydrates now pre-workout. I have more energy in the gym and that ends up having all these downstream effects that help you ultimately burn more fat. So carbs pre-workout are incredible. I've been like really leaning into carbs

whether it's fruit like bananas or I've even been like experimenting with some overnight oats, which I really enjoy, which if you would have asked me five years ago, my thoughts on oatmeal, I would have basically called them little more than glorified cattle feed. But now I feel like they're actually a really powerful functional food to be used for that purpose as a performance enhancing tool. And so I'll do some carbs pre-workout, I'll do some protein pre-workout.

whether in the form of a protein shake or some eggs. I really like casein protein lately. So I think whey is fantastic, but ultimately whatever protein you like is fine. But lately I've been enjoying casein, which is a much slower digesting protein. And then if I'm eating something pre-workout, I don't necessarily feel like I need to run to eat protein post-workout because that idea of the anabolic window has been sort of

New research has come out showing that it's kind of a myth. About 30 minute window. Yeah. I mean, when I first started training 20 something years ago, I thought, like many did, that if you didn't eat protein immediately post-workout, all gains were lost.

It was like a sprint home. Sprint home to get that protein shake, you know. But now I think we know, particularly if you've got amino acids in circulation from a prior meal, there's really no rush. So I'll, you know, at some point make my way over to a place to get lunch or I'll go home and cook something. But I no longer feel that rush.

that sense of urgency. But you're not waiting like two hours. But I'm not, yeah, I mean. You're still eating. Coffee's late. I mean, but you're still eating within an hour of the workout. Yeah, but even if I had a meal pre-workout, I would wait an hour, hour and a half, two hours. The point is you have a lot more flexibility, which I think is empowering to consume that protein. Ultimately what matters is like the amount of protein that you're consuming over a 24-hour period. Are you hitting your protein goal?

You don't think that when you go through a really heavy lift and you're breaking the muscle tissue down extremely in that lift, even if you had some carbs and protein pre and during that, you wouldn't want to go get some food within an hour of that training? Because I personally feel inflamed if I wait too long. Yeah.

Because I feel very like catabolic. I feel like my body's just breaking down. Do you think that's mental? But I'm also very lean. So I think that, no, it's not mental because I can literally feel it in my stomach. Oh, wow. Like an inflammatory like feeling that I need to like replenish my system from. But maybe it's because I'm at like a point in my body composition that there's like not a ton of room. Okay.

How long are you training for? To like not have food for a certain amount of time because I operate very low body fat. So like,

I have to like, it's like have to eat, but I'm not like, Greg is the same way. I will say rushing to force myself a protein shake within 10 minutes of like my last lift, because there's also something about the, your stress hormone post-workout, you still have a little bit of, you know, if you've done some heavy training, there's some cortisol there and you're, there's a valve in your stomach that could actually close up if you're too stressed right after a workout that you're not going to absorb the nutrients anyway. So it's better to like,

be calm, have like, do some, you know, be breathing properly half, half an hour, 45 minutes later, an hour later, go get your next, go get your meal and eat it.

as opposed to like in this rush state, which most people do. They get done with a workout and they have to rush to work or whatever. And they're like force feeding their next meal. And then a lot of the time that can cause a lot of stomach upset because it's not going to actually digest as properly as it should. In terms of like the anabolic catabolic response for me, like I can actually notice post-workout if I don't get enough food that I feel way flatter. Yeah.

- Mm, Greg is the same way. - And if I eat a decent amount of carbs and protein and I get those good nutrients to replenish like glycogen and to help me recover better with the amino acids that I get, then I can tell that I feel like denser and fuller within 45 minutes of my training. - I think what you said about eating in the sympathetic mode

is so true. I think so many people rush, they're on the laptop, they're driving, they're eating in this like panic state and it creates digestion issues. I've been really conscious about it lately and putting my phone away and just like breathing before I eat. Yeah.

I think so many people could do that. Also just want to comment on the oats because I don't know if you guys saw, I just did an interview with Paul Saladino. He hates them, I bet. He hates oats. And we were talking about glyphosate and the effects of oats on gut health. I want to hear your guys' take. There is a apparently 100% glyphosate-free

I have them. Zigo. I have them too. They're great. They taste great. I'll eat some oats here and there too. I don't like to eat a ton of carbs before I train for some reason. I think Max has better digestion than me and he's able to break down food a little bit better because of my gut issues from the past. If I eat a bunch of carbs, I feel like I don't even want to go to the gym. That's how I feel. I just feel tired and don't want to go.

But I still do get some carbs. Like, I'll bodybuild it and put in, like, a carb, a very fine, like, carb powder that's, like, specific for training. Is it cold? Do you know? They're, like, cyclic dextrin-type powders that are made from, like, potato and rice. But they absorb differently. So, like, you don't get this, like, crazy blood sugar spike. Actually, it's kind of proven that you don't get any blood sugar spike. It's more of just, like...

a carb that fills the muscle tissue when you're training. So I'll still get some carbs like in a drink, but I'll make like a pre-workout drink after I have, I have like a protein coffee in the morning. I have been doing this for- With butter? I still do the butter. I don't do the coconut oil or MC2 oil anymore. I just do the butter. So you've been a butter fan? Yeah. You never stopped? Never stopped. He's probably the biggest butter fan I know. You're probably like the OG butter influencer. He really is.

I'm very dairy friendly. We're going to talk about that for sure. But yeah, so I'll have my protein coffee, which I'll throw like certain things in it. Glycine, lion's mane, inositol, like certain things that are,

gonna activate the coffee a little better and also I'll take certain supplements while I have my coffee like ashwagandha and certain things because I can't drink coffee more than once a day. Like I'll get spun out if I drink a coffee at 4 p.m. So in the way that that works with the protein and the fat is it slows the absorption of the caffeine. I feel way more steady and focused as opposed to like jittery, right? So then I'll work

my company and do certain content stuff whatever I'm doing in the morning for two to three hours before I'm even having my next thing which is my pre-workout drink before the gym and I'll have it with like half a banana or a whole banana depending on my training to get a little bit of sugar with the amount of amino acids because I'll take two three scoops of essential amino acids powder in my drink and

along with like creatine and cordyceps and electrolytes and I'll like soup up this pre-workout drink like make my own thing. Healer's tea, which I brought for you guys to try. I'm so excited. Dendrobium stem. We have an extra. Wait, tell us about that. Which is really, really, really incredible stuff and not a lot of people know about it. I've kind of tried to explain this to a lot of people that are like, I'm all constantly dehydrated. Like what should I do? Say the name of it again.

This product's called Healer's Tea by Dragon Herbs. It's an herb shop that I used to work for back in the day. That's where I kind of like got certified. Oh my God, that tastes so interesting. It tastes good. Is this for me? Yeah, try it. Whoa. And the main ingredient is something called dendrobium stem. And dendrobium stem is incredible because it's an astringent and holder of...

fluids which are very important for our vitality our skin complexion our sexual energy like men that are having a lot of sex and releasing a lot of time this is like quintessential what about because it's gonna replenish that type of energy for them that core yin-jing energy is This is the number one thing that you could be drinking for women to women

don't have the same problem as men when it comes to sexual function like that. Like, you guys actually gain energy from orgasm, but most people are chronically dehydrated these days. And complexion we love. And of course, it's a beauty tonic. It's an anti-aging tonic. Anything that like,

revitalizes the body on a deep level, like deep mineral level and also holding because a lot of us like sweat a lot or pee a lot or like release our fluids in a lot of way throughout the day. This helps to like lock them in more. I love to put this in my drink too because I like my body's like constantly getting rid of

like sweat. Like I feel like I pee pretty often. Like I think that there's something in the anabolic nature of that that you do that more often. I pee a lot too. Yeah. So. Same. I wonder if that's something with. What's wrong with us? I don't know. Yeah. Like me on a plane. It's also like our systems are probably designed well to excrete excess toxins like often throughout the day, especially if you're taking a lot of different supplements that help.

detoxification. I wake up with glutathione like every morning. That's definitely going to be detoxifying. Do you inject glutathione or do you do liposomal? Just liposomal in the morning, yeah. Rectally, right? If they had it? Yeah. Why not? What do you mean rectally? You can put glutathione up your butt? I have no idea. I mean, people are putting all kinds of things up their butts. Yeah, suppositories. You've never done a suppository? No, let's talk about it. I know people who like drink, take coffee up their butts. Coffee enemas. Oh, that's a coffee enema. Yeah. What do you put up your butt?

In fraternities? I've tried NAD. Like in your butt hole? Yeah, this guy that I know, he sells a NAD suppository. He's like, I'll try this. Wow, fascinating. Yeah. And you did it? Yeah, it was okay. I kind of prefer the NAD. I like the insulin injection. Yeah, I like the NAD shots. I did one two days ago. Do you feel weird afterwards? Of course. The head rush?

I get this weird buzzing in my body. Yeah, it's interesting. I think they say that wherever it's buzzing is where you need the most help in your cells. Oh my God. So if yours is buzzing in your head, then maybe it's more like brain type stuff, potentially. Mine always goes to my stomach, and I know my stomach's my weak link.

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Let's talk about gut health for a second because you've had a lot of gut health issues and I know you talk about gut health.

Let's talk about ways that people- Max is like a iron stomach that guy. Am I? Yeah, but you talk about gut health. Yeah. You don't have any issues. No, I don't know. You won't eat like inflammatory stuff either. It's not like you'll chow down on a sandwich with a bunch of wheat. So what would you guys say are some things people at home can do to improve their gut health? Oh man, so many things.

A lot of the things that fixed my gut were to think of my gut as more of an injured part of my body. So like, what do you do when your hamstring's injured? You need to rest it. So same thing with the gut. Like if the gut needs rest, the last thing you want to do is be eating a ton of hard to digest foods.

Such as? Such as like raw vegetables that have a lot of like cellulose when we don't have cellulose enzyme to break down the cellulose. So it's just turning into all this roughage that could potentially be good for somebody that wants to have a lot of fiber and be full faster. But for someone that has a gut issues, it's like the last thing you'd want to do is eat a lot of like

cruciferous vegetables raw like broccoli, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, kale, especially kale. Lots of nuts and seeds in your diet because those are hard to break down. There's also a lot of phytic acid. There's so many different inflammatory things that could be happening when you have a plethora of different foods that you might think are considered health foods, but you're going through a different type of lifestyle at the time than somebody that just has great gut health. So you've got to think about it differently.

because I was doing all the wrong things when my gut was really destroyed at the time. And then when I started kind of listening to myself, okay, let's just keep it simple.

Things that I was scared of for a long time like white rice because the carbs. I started eating white rice and feeling so much better. I was getting like energy from it and like it didn't hurt my stomach. It was easy to break down. So like simple carbohydrates that were easy to break down, simple proteins that were easy to break down, eating more fruit, cleansing kind of like items like that. But I thought like, oh my God, the sugar, like don't do that. Like everything that I thought I should not be doing, I started doing instead and I started to feel so much better.

not eating like tons of fat in each meal, especially the ones that are slower fats. Like more of the vegetable family fats are actually slower metabolically than something like butter or meat, you know, the fat from meat. If you're eating two avocados a day, that's pretty slow digesting food.

So I kind of cut out a lot of these foods and that was like the first step that really helped my gut feel a lot better. And then I started introducing things that I knew I had to kill some pathogens off.

So certain things that were good like antifungals, antibacterials. Powdearco was something that was really good at the time for me because it was pretty mild in nature. I didn't want to have these like crazy die off symptoms. What is that? It's a bark and it's really good for like candida overgrowth. Got it. So you can take it in pill form. It's actually very cheap, very effective.

Uh, and no, there's other certain types of antifungals that are great. Something like oregano oil would always stir me up way too much. So I kind of had to pull back on that one, but it's good garlic. You know, sometimes people do well on those kinds of supplements. And then I moved into like spore based probiotics and things that actually got to my small intestine where I was having issues as opposed to,

I was always getting probiotics from the store that were in the refrigerator. And it's like, I should have thought about it. If they're in the refrigerator, how well they're going to do in my hot system inside my body? Probably not well. Probably get killed by my stomach acid right away. It don't work, but it's good marketing, right? So learning, getting into this, learning about certain companies that make spore-based probiotics like Just Thrive, Microbiome Labs, right?

That really helped. And then also realizing that a lot of my issues stemmed from having leaky gut syndrome. So learning certain supplements and tools to rest my system, heal my gut lining and permeability that was probably way bigger than it should have been. And

that got me into the colostrum world and glutamine and some of these amino acids like proline and glycine that really help to seal the gut lining that are in some cool supplements.

It's a dance when your gut, because if you're listening and you have gut issues, you know there's like this weird dance where you do some stuff, then you feel like shit for a second, then you pull back and then you do some other things and you feel good and you think you're okay. And then you start eating some like foods that you're not used to eating again. And all of a sudden everything's back. The gut is just so sensitive. And when you have debilitated it in that kind of like fashion,

It takes a while, you know, maybe years to really get back to feeling better. And it took me a long time, but you know, there was a lot of different things that I tried. And now I kind of live that lifestyle on a daily basis. Like I won't eat glue and I don't drink alcohol. I kind of stay away from all the inflammatory things that I know are

would upset my stomach and potentially cause me to have like a flare up in some kind of way and be right back where I started, where I had, you know, more severe gut issues than I do now. I'm probably, I feel like 98% now, like every once in a while I'm like, what was that? But it's become a lifestyle to where it's not such an effort every day. Yeah. It's become a lifestyle that I enjoy. You know, I, I, there's certain foods that I really love to eat on a regular basis and

I know they make me feel good. And that's my number one is to feel good every day. So I just don't do the other things that I know, like next day I'm going to wake up and just feel horrible.

What are your views on colostrum? Because colostrum is really having a moment right now and I'm seeing it marketed as like this cure-all supplement. And I'm curious what your thoughts are. Yeah, I mean, I had the founder of a colostrum company on my podcast and she also happens to have a medical background. So I thought it was a really cool person to get the skinny on this product that everybody seems to be talking about. I think it makes sense that it would have immunomodulating benefits

bioactives in it. So I've been experimenting with it, taking it. For the impact that it could potentially have on immune function, I've been actually giving it to my cat who suffers from chronic upper respiratory infections. Delilah. Delilah, yeah. She has, sorry Delilah, I'm going to have to out you, but she has feline herpes. And so, yeah. I love it.

She's listening to this right now, screaming. Yeah, poor D-Money. It's very common in cats. It's super contagious and they get it from usually whatever kennels. Can they transfer it to humans? Prior to being adopted. No, they can't. You're good then. It's very different. It's an upper respiratory thing. It's like a respiratory thing.

Oh, it's shake. I got it. Yeah. But it leaves her vulnerable to chronic secondary bacterial infections. So she's always going to have this herpes, but it flares up. And when it flares up, she's just sneezing and blowing boogers all over the house. It's like really gross. Adorable, but very gross. And so I've been giving her... I've been mixing colostrum into her food. And it seems to be keeping the infections at bay. It's completely an anecdote. I don't want to make any crazy claims, but I've been just...

at wit's end trying to figure out how to like prevent these chronic infections for her. And so I think, yeah, I think the research is interesting on it. I don't have any dog in the fight, but I've been experimenting with it and...

The science seems sound, although there's not a ton of it. And yeah, and bodybuilders, right, have been using it for a long time for its potentially anabolic effects. No, I think it's obviously an amazing nutrient. I mean, it's the first milking that a newborn calf gets from their mother. You know, it's the breast milk, human breast milk, and, you know, cow's milk, the first milking...

Its main job when it's being given to the calf in that moment is, from my research, is when the fetus is inside and it's getting nutrients from the mother through the placenta,

the gut wall is actually perforated. So it can allow for nutrients to pass through. So when you get out of the womb, you don't want to have a perforated gut because now it's like you're not getting nutrients that way, right? So the colostrum that you get is supposed to seal that up, which is why people take it now for leaky gut stuff because it has certain growth factors and amino acids that help seal that back up so that you have a tight wall junction gut wall instead of something that can seep through into the bloodstream.

You're good, but a lot of people grew up that they didn't get breastfed They got formula right away And then they realize years later that it's one of the main reasons they have all these gut issues Because their gut never got sealed back up so they've always had different allergies or you could get you know more susceptible to certain chronic illnesses and autoimmune stuff because of that so I think that's like

really amazing thing about colostrum and I think the growth factors is a big reason why a lot of people in the fitness industry are taking it because it helps it's supposed to be considered in Chinese medicine it's like the yin form of like growth hormone whereas like deer antler is the yang form so like together

Had a friend that was like obsessed with elk velvet or deer antler and colostrum and he would pair them together and had people all over the country like getting it from him and and doing this like years ago and

and it definitely gives you an edge in terms of that. I just put it straight into my mouth. I mean, part of it is that I think it tastes really good on its own. There's also such a little amount that you get in these little jars that everybody's selling because it is...

Pricier than just like selling your milk powder. Are you guys taking it in a powder form or a capsule powder? I just I would yeah, I take like a lot at a time Okay, and is it considered dairy or not? It's dairy. Yeah, of course Okay, and you enjoy it. What brand is your favorite? My my favorite brand is equip foods. Okay. Yeah Yeah, I don't know. I mean I can't personally speak to any objective with 100% certainty benefits that I've that I've seen from it but

I think the science is super interesting and I think it's probably worth a shot, particularly if you have gut issues. And I had the founder of Armra on my podcast and they have since become a sponsor. So I just want to put that disclosure out there. But yeah, I've been using it because I have it and I enjoy it. I see them everywhere. I want to ask you guys about peptides. Either of you use peptides slash can you define peptides for us?

A peptide is a protein, yeah. But the ones that we're talking about, it's like a sequence of...

a chain, like basically a message. The injectables or the orals that people are taking to enhance recovery, to enhance gut health. Yeah. What do you guys think? Not my wheelhouse. I mean, I've tried, first of all, semaglutide as a peptide, which Ozempic is. Oh, so Ozempic is a peptide. And so is insulin. Yeah. Apparently as a peptide. Oh, I didn't know that. So peptides are super, super common, but now they're being used for, I think the most common of them are growth hormone secretagogues, which basically you inject or you can take orally.

that stimulate the release of your own growth hormone, which can help support collagenous tissue in the body, tendon health, and things like that, joint health and stuff. Recovery time. Recovery time, et cetera. There are some that purport to benefit gut health. So there's like a whole menu now of available peptides, and I think the research on them is interesting, but yeah, not my wheelhouse.

Yeah, it's kind of a new world, definitely in the bodybuilding world too. A lot of people at the gym are using certain peptides. You can even get peptides that are specifically like IGF-1, like growth factor peptides. But the most common ones that people are using are like BPC-157, like TB500, CJC, ipamoralin. These are like some growth hormone secretagogues like Max was saying, but also something like BPC-157 is,

I've used plenty of times for more of the oral for gut stuff because it stands for body protection compound and the BPC-157 is actually from, which is kind of weird, but human gastric juice. That's how they extract. That's how they make it. Oh, you're kidding. I'm using it right now. You got the pills? Yeah. Where'd you... From a pharmacy, yeah. From a pharmacy, yeah. So like pharmaceutical grade BPC-157...

It's like helps with overall systemic inflammation, brings that down. It's amazing as the pill for overall like leaky gut syndrome and gut health.

brings that inflammation down also helps like keep all your immune function and antibodies like balance so that you're not getting this overreaction in your system because when your guts inflamed like you can start develop certain overreactive type like autoimmune situation as well so that's why i think ppc 157 is amazing and i've used it as the pill i've only used it i've injected it once tried it i didn't love it i think the pill is like for me um

where it's at. Haven't used it in a while, but I would go back to it because I think that there is a number of benefits that it has and they really haven't shown like that there's too many different side effects. Obviously these things are kind of new to humans, but for the most part,

I feel like a lot of these things that do really, really well and that really help us are things that like certain industries want to shut down because they help us heal faster. And just to be clear, peptides are legal. Yeah.

Correct. Pharmaceutically, yeah, they're legal. Yeah, you can even get them online. I don't know how good the certain sources are when you just go direct to the source. I would go through a company like get blood work, understand what you're doing, and then have them prescribe and get it sent from a pharmacy for sure. A lot of these optimal doctors have them. So I think that's where I got ours.

Okay. Last question is about male mental health. Oh, cool. This is a female audience for the most part. And we talk a lot about body positivity, body dysmorphia, things of that topic. I don't see a lot of men talking about that topic. And I'm curious in the health industry as men, do you guys feel a certain level of pressure to look a certain way? Do you feel any toxicity in that environment and how do you deal with it?

Yeah, I mean, I thankfully don't feel a ton of pressure because my personal brand, I mean, I hate using that term, but it's really never been about showing myself shirtless or even influencing for that matter. I mean, I'm primarily a journalist and an author and the podcast has sort of come as a secondary outlet for me. But people that are shirtless on there all the time are so cringe, huh? So cringe. Art Crosby. No, I mean...

I'll post the occasional thirst trap. Why not? I'm not above it. I'm not above it. It's usually a mirror selfie. Well, I also think I'm not particularly genetically gifted. I'm not an athlete, as we talked about earlier in the episode. And so for me, I really do work very hard for the mental health issues

benefits that I see from the gym, but also my physique and feeling good and essentially looking and feeling like an athlete, even though I'm not an athlete. You know, I'm... I can attest that Max has gotten in amazing shape since I know him. Yeah, you look great, Max. Thank you, thank you, thank you. No, so I put in a lot of work and I try to take a really like evidence-based, science-based approach to my training and whatnot. But no, mental health is a huge portion of it and you really have to get your mental health

I mean, obviously training and good nutrition can all be supportive, can all be an adjunct to good mental health. And there's a growing body of research showing that

you know, diet can actually be used as a treatment modality for mental health issues, right? It's not a cure-all and it certainly isn't going to be applicable to every single person. But then also conversely, I think, you know, by really focusing specifically on your mental health, that's going to be what's going to help you to sustain these healthy habits that are going to create that feedback loop that ultimately are what lead to these long-term changes, both in your physique and your health ultimately.

And so for me, I think therapy personally has played a big role in that. It took me 30 something years to see a therapist because it can be hard to find the right therapist. It can be expensive. But seeing a therapist for me was really helpful in terms of understanding where some of the, for example, issues that I have in relationships comes from and really getting to put those under the magnifying glass. I think developmentally,

developing a healthier relationship with social media is really important. I think we underappreciate the detrimental effects that chronic social media use can have on mental health. And I, as somebody with a platform like you, like Crosby, but even if you don't have a platform, we live in a really weird time where the marketplace has now become globalized in the sense that you can be

essentially a civilian and put something crazy online and then and suddenly fall under the scrutiny of the entire universe it seems. And so having a healthy relationship with that and realizing that social media isn't real life I think can be can be really helpful. And continually reminding yourself that the most important things in life

are, you know, sometimes require a bit of attention. You've got to like water the flowers in your life, so to speak, and fostering those relationships, whether it's with your friends or your family, loved ones, I think all can go a really long way towards helping facilitate good mental health, which is so important today. I love that. Cosby, you are in the modeling industry and I think you act a little bit as well. How about you in terms of body image?

Yeah, the modeling thing is not as serious as it used to be, but it definitely was tough back in the day. Like in my mid-20s when I was in New York and London and modeling more often, I definitely had body dysmorphia. I was way too skinny. I look back on photos and I'm like, how was that me and how did I not realize that now?

But the industry, it's like really easy to fall trap into that world, especially when it comes to like pictures and being on camera, you actually do look a little differently. And so like everybody's trying to get as lean and cut as possible to have that like great image because I did a lot more like underwear and like body stuff. So I was always trying to be the leanest I could be. And I got to a point where I got way too skinny.

So when I built my body back up and I started to feel healthier and stronger and more fit and more muscular, I was like, oh, I wish I would have been like this then because that was actually what was being booked to anyways, was the more like masculine, muscular fit guy. And now it's kind of completely the opposite where I'm

It's weird. We now live in a world where being overly muscular or too fit is kind of weirdly like a turn off. Yeah, they're not into it anymore. Well, yeah. Men are into it. Men to men love it. Women aren't really... It feels very niche. It's very niche. I shouldn't speak for all women, but I feel like there is...

there has been kind of like a shift in what is attractive to women. And I sometimes feel like because I am very fit, I sometimes feel self-conscious about that because now I'm like, and it's not easy meeting women a lot of the time. And I feel like I don't know what it is. And sometimes the people that I'm meeting are maybe not as attuned with their like,

health and fitness and lifestyle and then they see me and they're like that's like he's obsessed with all of that kind of thing but it's more because I just really enjoy feeling good and feeling good in my body and feeling strong and feeling like able and and and can go like lift weights whenever I want or go play volleyball on the weekend or like go do you know things with friends and and go hiking and just feel good all the time and I

Don't you know the I don't mind having like being in shape myself like it's great I love it But I think that there's been some like weird kind of shift where it's like not really in like back in like the Arnold days It's like that's all it was also you have the media saying things like fitness Right wing extremists Not a political cool wherever you actually like

It's considered weird to be a bodybuilder a little bit, which has been interesting because when I first met Greg... Or just be into fitness in general. Extremely into fitness. There's weird articles nowadays that are being pumped that it's not cool to be fit and to be healthy, but it's like...

in to not be. But I think what you said is so true. It gives you a level of freedom that other people don't have. Right. You can hike, you can swim, you can have energy the whole day. I think it gives you a level of freedom that other people may not experience. And that makes it worth the discipline you have to implement throughout the day. Agreed. And it's also great to meet a partner, I think, that's into that with you. Greg and I are both super health obsessed and it has just made it so much more fun for us. Yeah, that's awesome. That's

That's kind of where it's at now, like finding that person that's similar in your health world. Like I don't meet people when I go out. I don't go out really. So it's like... Which is what most people are doing to meet other people. It's like a day meet. Yeah.

A cute day meet. Like a grocery store meet or like a gym meet. Yeah, you're gonna find your person at Air One, I think. Because that's where you are 90% of the time. Both of you. That's true. Crosby's there 90% of the time. Yeah, that's true. For sure. On that topic, I have a rapid fire fan Q&A. Oh my god. And the first question is, are either of you single, LOL? Oh wow. I kind of knew that was coming. Yeah, I'm single. I've been single for some time. Happily single, but yeah. Yeah, same.

Both happily single. Like you're not looking. I'm not necessarily looking to be in a relationship per se, but I think it would be nice at this stage to have like a crush, you know, which I haven't had in a while. Well, the girls are asking. So maybe this will go out. We have DMs, you know. They have DMs. Guys.

The DMs are open. Good luck with that. The DMs are open. Having fun with that one. Here's the funny thing, though. Oftentimes, I feel like whenever somebody will DM, their profile is private. I'm like, what do you want me to do with this? Why don't you follow them? If you're going to DM, because I don't just follow people I don't know. I don't even follow everybody that I know, because it's just too much. But normal people have private accounts, I think.

Yeah. I think we're the weird ones. The exception. Yeah. Yeah. I think you should follow back. Interesting. Are you saying that you don't get to know what they look like fully? I have to follow back so many people. Oh, that's a flex. You know, I mean, it's like, what am I supposed to do?

But really, if you're going to slide in, I think you should make your profile public. Okay. Is that too much to ask? You heard it here. If you guys DM Crosby and Max, you have to have a public account. Yeah. Cookie your health questions first. I'm not going to follow back. I'm just kidding. By the way, I mean, we got to eat some. I know. Crosby brought his healthy baked goods and we're going to try some. Okay, cool. Let's try them at the end. Great. But if you guys get in relationships, I'm going to take credit. Deal.

Cool. You can appreciate the wedding. One thing everyone should eat more of and one thing everyone should eliminate. Oh, man. One thing everybody should eat more of. Well, I don't I think everybody, you know, everybody's different. There's no one size fits all diet. But I will say that I think lean red meat is a superfood, particularly if grass fed, grass finished. And I know a lot of people, particularly women who would be well suited to eat more red meat.

Less of what? What should we eliminate? Less of... I mean, I could say something boring like ultra processed foods that everybody's talking about. I think like refined grain products, you know, like wheat based snacks, things like that. No more wheat. I'd have to say in kind of like counterbalance of Max's red meat, eat more glycine rich foods. Because I think that as a culture, we eat a lot of muscle meat.

And muscle meat has a high amount of methionine, as Max pronounced for me properly earlier. And glycine-rich foods are like collagen, the ligaments and tendons, you know, gelatinous things, as well as organs and tendons and those kind of things. So like more organ meats, but also like consuming collagen with your muscle meat proteins or having like a glycine supplement. I really love that.

Taking my glycine on a regular basis because it tastes good too. It's like very sweet So I'd say hi get more high glycine foods in your diet to like balance the muscle meats that you're eating especially if you're a meat eater and then for consuming less of I'd have to say going back to kind of the fibrous stuff and

like these like candies that are super hot. Everybody loves these like gummy candies and they don't realize there's literally 20 something grams of inulin fiber per package. Like a smart sweet. Smart sweet. So if you eat a whole like gummy smart sweet bag, you're getting 24 grams of inulin fiber from chicory root or whatever. That's going to absolutely wreck your stomach for that day and could potentially be contributing to issues down the line with like

SIBO and those kind of things. So I would definitely kind of veer clear of the high fiber, sugar-free sweets. Love it. Seed oils, how bad are they? I think we know they're bad, but like, I want to hear your take. Yeah. I mean, I'm certainly not a fan of seed oils, but I do think that the pendulum has really swung in now in the direction of people thinking that they're the sole source of all of our problems.

And I have to concede that if you're hyper focusing on seed oils, you're probably missing the big picture. I think for most people, it's not necessarily going to be that that's the problem. It's going to be the overconsumption of ultra processed foods, which typically contain them. If you've, you know, when it comes to the oils that you're bringing into your own home, I don't think that there should be any reason to

Look, unless you're absolutely broken, it's all you have access to. But even then, I wouldn't, there's no necessity for them. I would say the primary oil that should be used based on the evidence as well as my own sort of perspective on this should be extra virgin olive oil, which a ton of research supporting its use, not just for cooking. A lot of people wrongly believe that you're not supposed to cook with it. You can cook with it at low to medium temperatures.

But also the polyphenols that it contains, these plant anti-inflammatory compounds, as well as its fatty acid profile. It's like the healthiest oil you can ingest. I'm not a fan of seed oils, but I do think that a lot of people now on social media pointing a finger at them, claiming that they are the smoking gun for all of our health ills. I think that's a bit misguided. Yeah, I agree with Max on a lot of that. I think that it's really just being aware of...

the products you're eating on a regular basis and if you are even going to like healthy places and diving into something seed oil rich every day at some point it's definitely going to affect you because of the ratio of like omega-6 to 3 and and the type of inflammation that linoleic acid has on the body

But like if it sneaks into your meal here and there, like I don't think it's gonna kill you, you know? But yeah, for the most part, I avoid that type of oil also just because

we get plenty of that type of fat like omega-6 fat and even the animal proteins that we eat too like it's in me it's in eggs like it's not in like high concentrations obviously there's better saturated fats and stuff in them as well but like i think that creating like a more balanced ratio like and like you said i go to air one on a regular basis like i've actually never probably tried it once because i don't like buffalo sauce in general but

But I would never eat the buffalo cauliflower there. I don't either. Because it's deep fried in rice bran oil. And if you're eating that every day as your main side, at some point it's probably not going to be very good for your metabolism, your system, your body composition, overall health in general. So that's kind of where I would talk about drawing the line is the consistency of having these things and also realizing that they're in a lot of health foods.

It's like sunflower oil, for instance, is actually higher in linoleic acid than canola oil. But people don't realize that. They think canola oil is like the...

you know, the evil of all of them. Sunflower is actually higher and it's in tons of health foods. Well, you can find high oleic sunflower oil, which I think is pretty benign. But a lot of the companies, nobody's using that. Yeah. I mean, some people, some people are. You just have to look on the ingredients list and if it says high oleic, then, because oleic is a mono, oleic acid is a monounsaturated fat. So high oleic sunflower oil actually has like a

a fatty acid profile that looks more like avocado oil than soybean oil, which is largely polyunsaturated. Right. And I don't think that there's anything wrong with polyunsaturated fats.

in whole foods at all. Like I think nuts and seeds are great. I think fatty fish is loaded with polyunsaturated fats, totally great. Within the food matrix, they're protected by antioxidants. And so they're totally fine. The issue is when you get these oils that are extracted from the food matrix, which is, you know, the case for soybean oil, corn oil, canola oil, and the like, they're exposed to high heat. They undergo intensive processing. And then they're

essentially processed again when they're heated in the restaurant setting and used to fry foods in, that those delicate fats then essentially oxidize and mutate and all these oxidative byproducts are created which are potentially harmful. So I think the worst form in which they come in is in the fryer setting. And I don't know any nutrition expert who advocates for consuming more fried food. It's usually less fried food.

And so that's, I think, the area where people should really be vigilant to minimize their consumption. I mean, some fries here and there, no big deal, but it's really like the restaurant fryer setting is where these oils really become particularly pernicious. When you guys do drink alcohol, what's the drink of choice?

You never... I actually drink occasionally. I don't drink at all. But do you smoke weed or do mushrooms or anything? Yeah, the occasional mushroom, chocolate, for sure. What are you, mushroom here? California sober. Every once in a while, back in the day, I would smoke weed, but it doesn't agree with me. Weed. I just feel very lethargic and...

Hungry. Spacey and yeah, it's like my humor is different at the time and I'm maybe a little more giggly but like it's not worth it for me. But mushrooms I think are great. Yeah, I'm a big fan of a little microdose here and there. Microdose, a slight little macrodose here and there. Slight macrodose on the beach. Why not? Why not? Yeah. More micro for me. I love mushrooms. Weed, I can't stand. I don't like what my mind becomes under the influence of THC.

And then alcohol, I mean, I drink very rarely. I would say like once a month, if that. But usually it'll be like a clear spirit, like a tequila or a good low sugar red wine. We work with a brand called Dry Farm Wines. Oh, I'm the biggest fan. Oh, yeah. You had Todd on. I love them. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And the wine's amazing.

We're not even sponsored by them, but they'll hook us up with wine. I'm not either. I talk about them on every episode, I swear. Yeah, they're great. Good wine. Yeah, love them. Fantastic, guys. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Please tell us where they can find you online. Where can they listen to the show? Where can they buy the baked goods? So I'm very active on Instagram at Max Lugavere, L-U-G-A-V-E-R-E. And my podcast is called The Genius Life. So come and say, what's up, Mari?

has been on it and yeah, the Genius Life on all podcast platforms. It's a great podcast. I've been on plenty of times. Yeah, you have? Yeah, it's fantastic. It's a great podcast. You can find me, I'm mostly on Instagram as well, at CrosbyTaylor, T-A-I-L-O-R. And then my company, CrosbysBakingCo.com, where I sell my cookie mixes, gluten grain, refined sugar-free cookie mixes, and we'll start selling some of my ready-to-eat products like blondies and

we're going to move into creating a whole line from the mixes, everything from like brownie, pancake, like all the good stuff. And, uh,

Hopefully, I'll expand to some farmers markets around town and retails here soon too. But you can still order the mixes, Crosby'sBakingCo.com. Amazing. And they're delicious. Fi and I are a huge fan. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. Thank you. You're the best. Thank you for listening to today's episode. Go comment on my last Instagram at Mari Llewellyn with the guest you want to see next.

I'll be picking one person from the comments to send our Bloom Greens to. Make sure you hit follow so you never miss my weekly episodes. If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to share and leave a review. See you next week. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.